Winnipeg | Transit | Rapid Transit
 

Hello everyone!

Newbie here!

I happened to stumble across this site and have to say I enjoy reading the threads on this forum.

Born and raised in Winnipeg! I have to say I've always enjoyed living here however at times I feel frustrated with this city knowing that it can become so much more then what it already is. There have been many changes over the years that have shown progress however one that has been lacking many years now and still is to this very day is our city transportation.

I am frankly fed up with the way this city has been dealing with this "Major" issue. I've been a frequent rider now for almost 2 years and cannot believe how horrible are transit system is.

I researched our past history on transportation and can't believe what we use to have. Looked at pictures of what it once was and have to say it looked friggin cool! What has happened to this city? I know there's priorities that the city and province need to deal with first (ex: roads, bridges, community centers, etc.) however we cannot forget how important transportation is to a city.

There have been talks for many years now regarding how we'll be able to implement Rapid Transit and what will work and what will not. We've spent a lot of time and money on this and where have we gotten with it???

If this city wants to promote a new image for itself and truly help global warming environment issues (as it's now become a great concern globally) we need to start making some noise people.........

We have money that's being put into place for a superplex development in the Bronx community center.....why? ( I call it a superplex because this is “NOT” what a community park is suppose to be) I understand the center has deteriorated and needs rejuvenation but you can't tell me we need a building facility that's going to accommodate public activities that are already a short distance away (ex: YMCA, Gateway, etc.) This money has been taken from our Transportation fund to help do what? If the city honestly thinks that by building a superplex community center in the Bronx Park is going to help redevelop its community with recreation sports activities, it may work for a while but I can't see it working long term. Develop a new club house but not to what the proposal is asking for it’s friggin ridiculous.

This is money that is not being spent well at all.

City complains how expensive it is to implement Rapid Transit and that we don’t have the money for it. However, what they don't seem to understand is that..... Yes, it is expensive and it will always be expensive however the longer this gets placed on hold the more expensive it's going to be due to inflation. Why put it on hold? Why have a target plan of possible implementing it in 10 to 20yrs.....what good does that do for our city? It completely boggles my mind.

I asked a bus driver yesterday when we're suppose to get the new articulated buses? He didn't want say because he was almost embarrassed to tell me that it looks like we're not going see them until close to the end of the year when we were originally suppose see them arrive apparently this spring after the redevelopment of the bus depot’s which is to accommodate the new longer buses.

How much time and money was put into Rapid Transit Task Force? Honestly, how effective was that really? Got a team put together, all did there research came up with a pretty decent proposal and then got turned down. Why? Because there are other priorities to address first before we can think about implementing Rapid Transit. Hello!?!?!? So you’re saying City Transportation is not important? Give me a friggin break!

I went to a Moose game last Friday decided to hop on the bus for the first time as I usually drive to the games and I have to say that was one of my worst experiences ever! Going to the game was ok.........however after the game was finished try to catch a bus on the way home was a joke!

I had to wait for the number 11. There were a ton of people waiting for this bus. One shows up??? Everyone pushed and shoved their way on the bus which was already packed as is. The bus driver didn't even seem impressed. Why? Why only one bus? Especially after an event like that. I just don't get it.....

I can rant and go on with this for hours. It just makes me sick! By writing this, I wanted to actually see how many people feel the same way that I do……….

Rapid Transit would do wonders for this city and I can't believe to this day we're still fighting with it. Will it ever see the light of day? We don't need it in 10yrs-20yrs............ We need it now!

Nuff said.

Welcome to SSP. :banana:

Welcome to SSP. :)

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. There's been just too many factors that made this city lose opportunities, and gained more problems over the years. Lot's of "mistakes" have occurred, and the negligible planning that was involved, as well as the amount of bureaucracy that was going on. I don't know if you knew this before, but we almost had a subway in this city. If someone has a link to more of this info, I'm sure they'd be happy to provide you.

Thanks dude!

Oh yeah! I knew about the subway........ It looked to be a brilliant idea done by Norman Wilson. It totally sucks that it got turned down.

These guys below are still trying to make it happen............

http://www.truwinnipeg.org

Here is a list of rapid transit plans for Winnipeg through the decades: from subways to diamond lanes
http://uwto.org/transit_plans.html

Well i'm thoroughly depressed now..

oh here is an article http://www.pps.org/info/newsletter/june2005/san_mateo that could help our ridership . They say "to make transit an attractive alternative to driving, bus stops have to be more than just waiting areas they should be attractive, mixed-use destinations." so maybe we have the total function of our major bus stops all wrong. I dunno its just an idea. Maybe there should be small stores and restaurants that u can buy a paper and eat on the go like a 7/11 and Tim hortons while waiting for the next bus . In that article it is said: 'Turning Transit Stops and Stations into "Places"
San Mateo's commuter rail stations and bus stops should be attractive, mixed-use destinations that give people an extra incentive to take transit.' so maybe thats part of the answer to increase ridership.

Well, I recently wrote an email to City Transit to get some information/status on the whole new transit development plan since I really haven't been seeing much progress with it. The news/answers I got back from the Supervisor of Customer Service were not good at all.

You can pretty much take that whole transit development plan they have posted on there website and throw it out the window............ Their still at the evaluation stage on the different designs for the new garages to accommodate the new articulated buses which get this......won't be delivered until mid 2008! Umm...weren't they supposed to be here already???

You will continue to see upgrades to all the major and minor stops throughout the city but besides that as for all these other things ex: new technology to deliver real-time information at stops, on-board buses, via the web, telephone and hand held electronic devises; special measures such as diamond lanes and traffic signal priority for buses to speed up transit service; and more park and ride lots. Don't expect them anytime soon.

For God sake! :hell:

I'm so tired of this BS.... I also spoke to a bus driver yesterday and he said our transit system is so far behind other cities it's not even funny. There cities that don't even have half the money that we have and they're so much ahead of our time so don't give me that BS we don't have the money to do things with our City transportation. Make it a priority and you will see how much money this city really has!

A city that is HQ for Newflyer makes things look even worse for us.....

Very sad that is all I can say............. :(

Not shocking in the least.

Here is my new slogan: "Welcome to Winnipeg: Canada's slowest and most non-progressive major city"

Will this ever change? :mad:

Lane Transit District

Is the latest transit service to operate with NewFlyers new 60ft Articulated Advanced Style BRT vehicle (the same buses we're supposely getting one day) :rolleyes:

I have to say it looks pretty sweet! I'd totally be all game for that! :tup:

http://www.ltd.org/search/showresult...09617da85ed680

Here's a post I made explaining the big reason why I think we need rapid transit:

So this is what I think Winnipeg should do:

1. Put up several high-frequency (5min or less), high capacity bus routes with clearly marked stations. This would be like the B-Line bus routes in Vancouver which are often a precursor to real rapid transit. They would use articulated buses. The first key routes I see are:

-U of M - Downtown
-Portage Avenue
-Main St.
-Sargent Ave to the Airport
-Henderson Hwy
-Grant Ave.
-St. Mary's Rd.
-Osborne-Dakota
-Notre Dame
-Transcona to Downtown

2. Negotiate with rail companies about implementation of rapid transit on rail corridors. Rapid transit lines that are not on rail corridors can be built immediately.

3. Build an LRT system financed by tax incremental financing. Negotiations

Welcome to SSP .. its always great to get another opinion.

I have to be honest .. I have always found this topic to be quit funny. I mean it takes a subject such as transit for you guys to relate to and understand how weak the local economy is. I mean you all seem to be willing to overlook this reality in almost every other way, but since Winnipeg can not afford to lay rails or build multi-million dollar stations you guys seem suprised. :koko:

Well good news... Manitoba has just confirmed it is to recieved hundreds of millions of dolars more in transfers, because it is so damn poor. If the NDP choose to, it could built the magic bullet sollution of rapid transit. Then everyone could feel so much better about everything. :rolleyes:

Of course with any type of rapid transit system in place you guys will go back to being completely ignornat of the economic inefficinecy of Manitoba.

The intelligent thing would be to build the economy by eliminating the payroll tax and capital tax. Incouraging more investment .. thus building a broader tax base.... BUT since this is a forum made up of mostly people going through some sort of idealistic phase I am sure the economy will be put way on the back burner. I mean we could have BUSES and DIAMOND LANES!!! :banana:
:hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :banaride:

:upload_71700:


Such is the Manitoba way of doing things. :drowning:

Yawn. The only thing that is successfully insulted by your "zingers" is the credibility of this forum.

Just because I question the outlook of those who place little more thought on such a subject than wishes and dreams, doesn't mean its an insult to do so. Yes Manitoba is recieving a new truck load of cash from Ottawa as a result of the new equalization sceme ..... build away. :rolleyes:

If it doesn't get built now put the blame on the Province.... if it does get built instead of building the future economy than we have nobody to blame but ourselves. :yes:

ho my God that's so pathetic... so where did all the money they
set aside go? to Katz' pocket???
I'm disgusted by this city right now, wanna leave anytime soon. Transit is in such awful shape and but they're widening roads, building bridges, stadiums, subdivisions. This is the most awkward, trashy, stupid place I've ever been :hell: I've been in 3rd world countries and their mentality... they're so far ahead then this hole.

Dude it's all good.....

Though the one thing I do have say about newflyer's comment is that sure we need to redevelop/establish our economy here in wpg however you can't tell me the city couldn't deal with juggling both at the same time.

For Christ sake! Winnipeg is HQ for New Flyer! Wouldn’t you think we would have the latest and greatest transit system to show off to the rest of the world???

We build all the high tech buses in North America!!! Where do they all go??? Not here.... that's for sure......

NewFlyer, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this shit out. Let's even put RT aside for a minute and just look at what we currently have for a typical transit system........ Don't even think about making any positive points/comments about it because the only person you'd be convincing is yourself. It's currently one of the poorest systems out there right now and I can guarantee you I'd have a ton of people backing me up on that.

I hear you though..... Yes we need to re-establish our economy but like I said earlier city transportation is more important then people think and even more important now that we're dealing with global warming..... and if this city can get there shit together and actually make it a priority to get it up to standard......yes, there will continue to be people like myself bitch'n and complaining about it and worst yet people will continue to leave this city due to lack of poor planning and leadership that needs to help drive this city to where it needs to be and should have been at least 10 years ago.......

And that's even putting it nicely........

Maybe if you used a few more emoticons you'd be more convincing.

Yeah that what I thought... :D

i just read in the Canada forum that also Ottawa lost its LRT proposed system
"mal comune mezzo gaudio" we say:D

still, maybe they have a better bus system then Winnipeg's
I think as long as Katz is Mayor, Winnipeg transit will keep going down... but I wonder, should the NDP government (is it left, isn't it) strive to provide more services to people? Winnipeg produces 67% of Manitoba's GDP, so the province should do something to improve this town instead of just empty slogans and banners:hell:

Well, if we can convince the whole city to kick out ALL of those who are running at city hall right now (at this point, I don't care what colours they're flying), then perhaps we can have a better transit system. Hell, maybe even a better city after all! It'll be up to the new guys to clean up the mess that previous councillors/mayors who made some indecisive mistakes over the last...oh... 50 years! It's one of the reasons why I call this place "Soviet Canuckistan."

I'm really disappointed on when those articulated buses are supposed to come this year when apparently, they haven't even started ways to accommodate them. So much bureaucracy involved in this city, it's so frustrating.

Is Articulating same as Accordian Style Bus
 

What needs to be done to accomodate articulating buses? Are those not the accordian style buses that just travel on regular roadways? Although I am an EXpatriot Winnipeger I am currently in Sherwood Park which is adjacent to Edmonton. In addition to the Edmonton Transit System both Sherwood Park and St. Albert Transit Systems operate the accordian style buses.

Is there a difference

Articulated is just the proper term for accordion buses. There are also double articulated buses which I know operate in South America

Articulating Buses
 

Jabroni, based on the responses to my question regarding articulating buses what would you be referencing regarding accomodating them. The roadways as they are could easily handle them. As mentioned in my last post numberous small cities such as St. Albert and Sherwood Park here in Alberta have these buses. I'm not sure that there would be any reason for a hold up on Winnipeg getting these.

The problem isn't the roads, but the garages where the buses stay. Apparently the new buses are too long to fit in our current garages.

Maybe if we fell ass backwards into a pile of dead dinosaurs we could be as great as Calgary:rolleyes:

Why do you come into Winnipeg threads just to bitch?

Geebrr I agree newflyer rant went a little too far but isn't some of what he said true. I understand what he is saying.

Myself I would much prefer people telling there opinions without an insult. But hey opinions are for assholes, right.
oops I went too far.lol

The Free Press and the U of W held a Plan Your Winnipeg competition for elementary school students.

Sunday's paper had a couple of suggestions rapid transit related:

Photo caption bottom left of page B5 reads:

and on page B6:

Reference: Welch, Mary Agnes, "Young Eyes on the Town". Winnipeg Free Press, March 25, 2007, pp. B5-B6.

Hmmm... no BRT plans from the students, although some were not thinking enough and suggested turning surface parking into "green gardens".... Nooo kiddies... please turn those parking lots into hi-rise apartments, condos., and office towers.

Actually, that green garden idea was from one of the undergrad students from U of M's faculty of Architecture (not quite a 'kiddie' anymore). It was more theoretical than practical as it posed the question of what do we do with all this road/parking infrastructure when it is no longer needed in the distant future (because we'll all be using public transit because of environmental concerns / price of gas). like i said, theoretical, but not quite practical - but it wasn't meant to be.

that being said, it was one of my more favorite ideas because it was one of the only projects that didn't focus on a single project to answer the question "Plan Your Winnipeg" (ie: a new building; a reworked mall; revamped courtyard). They're all great ideas, but we all know how (un)successful it is pinning our hopes to strengthen Winnipeg on a single project (ie: City Hall, Portage Place, MTS Centre), but when put together as a whole plan, things work out great (ie: St. Boniface or Osborne Village with their mix of shops, residences, business, services, parks, etc.) I was hoping to see more of that from the Adult category at last week's exhibition.

I've been a frequent transit ride (Mon-Fri) for over 2 yrs now, I made a post to see what peoples thoughts were on our current Transit system along with future thoughts/concerns on RT etc. My post was what it was, I wasn't saying anything that isn't true....... it's just a fact.

But when someone decides to be apart of a forum community and tries to insult someone else's intelligence just because they make a comment about something that the other doesn't agree with.......... I have no problem with people giving there opinions because heck this is what these forums are about. Info, debates, casual discussions, etc.

Whatever though I can really careless. My point was made earlier I provided information regarding the status of the 2006 Transit Development Project.
Take it as you wish.

All I know is when you hear city council announce a unanimously decision on a city budget for the first time since 86 shows me how much all of these councilors are actually on the same page. No wonder things take forever to get done in this city. That's a prime example to why this whole transit development plan is all out of whack.

It's just that when your born and raised in Winnipeg and know that the city has a lot of potential to become one of the best cities in Canada but yet still hits road block after road block starts to become very frustrated. I'd just like to see more happen with my tax dollars that's all. There's not much to show for, at least in regards to city transportation.

Ride our transit system as much as I do and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.........you smell what I'm cooking?

I disagree, Osborne is not succesfull as it is now, it's very trashy and dangerous, look at crimestat and you'll see the concentration of crime going on there... i was living there but get annoyed by drunk/punk and started to feel unsafe in the latter days.
Downtown as it is now it's way better then many residential neighboroughs, it's cleaner and very well illuminated at night, and i start to see more and more people at nights (of which the percentage of drunks seem decreasing), yesterday night at 12:00 a.m. the bus was pretty full:sly:
I think single projects, not necessarily huge, are still helpful.

I do not agree with newflyer for many things he say, considering that I'm communist:D ... but it's probably true that with more money going around and and a plan for downtown things would get better really fast, it's all about the money.:(

I wonder if it has ever occurred to Newflyer that a rapid transit system could help build the economy... but wait, that is blasphemy. MUST GET RID OF ALL TAXATION! YARRRRR!!! :pirate:

IMO, it's a short term pain for a long term gain. Even that could be reduced through alternative financing methods (such as the TIF, as stated by the OP).

Don't sell yourselves short W-Peg.

Oh the irony! :rolleyes:

It's not clear to me what effect a rapid transit system would have on Winnipeg's economy, other than to deplete it of the resources required to fund the system. It's a feel-good project, not an economic one. Feeling good is important, of course, but maybe there are cheaper ways of cheering everyone up.

Once again very good points. I guess the despiration to avoid the truth is showing through... with fantasies of massive growth and expansion caused by trains.

Sorry guys but economic expansion is not caused by trains... or magic fairy dust.


Please take a moment and read this section of an article which was published in the Winnipeg Chamber magazine in regards to Winnipeg's economy.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/674/chmiq9.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8629/chm1tr9.jpg

You can find this article in its whole form here:

http://www.winnipeg-chamber.com/index.asp?sectid=278

It has nothing to do with dinosaurs ... there are literally hundreds of cities with rapid trasit without any oil resources to rely on. The reailty is that socialsits like to blame everything Winnipeg doesn't have on a lack of oil. Its the most simple excuse Winnipegers have relied on for years. Just because we don't have oil, doesn't mean Winnipeg can't prosper.

I am not bitching about not having something we can't afford at the moment. Its just a simple fact Winnipeg's economy has suffered under decades of mismanagement and continuous reliance on government mega projects. It has been hampered by excessive taxes and narrow tax base.

Lets take the positive steps in making Winnipegs economy stronger. Build the economy so that the tax base expands and broadens. Then we can look to building a sytem we can be proud of... until then it will be little more than a dream. A good dream, but still a dream.

Please take some time to look over the intial concepts by the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce in how to make Manitoba a "have province".

Also examine the Winnipeg's chamber site for other concepts which have come to light in Winnipeg's struggle to rebuild its economy.

All I can say is Winnipeg is moving in the right direction. Thats not bitching .. its accepting reality and looking forward to a better future. Winnipeg has massive potential and it needs to live up to that potencial. Excuses are not acceptable any more.

The Economic Importance of Public Transit
Measuring and Valuing Transit Benefits and Disbenefits
Rapid Transit: A Transformative Tool
The Estimated Value Of New Investment Adjacent To DART LRT Stations: 1999-2005
DART Rail spurs economic vitality; creative developments
The Benefits of Public Transportation: Essential Support for a Strong Economy
Light Rail in Milwaukee: An Analysis of the Potential Impact on Economic Development
Public Transportation Means Business
Rail Transit In America: A Comprehensive Evaluation of Benefits

Should I post more, or is that enough reading for you guys to catch up on the subject? :rolleyes:

Newayz, the fact that LRT drives development is quite accepted. Busses or BRT are great for getting people out of their cars, but offer nothing in the way of potential for development. Being located within distance of a Bus Station isn't going to increase your property value and it isn't going to bring business to areas around station, whether they are in downtown or elsewhere. Only rail transit does this. Business people are also more likely to take LRT than they are options. How anyone can live in Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton, etc... and not see the value of transit to the economy and say that it wouldn't be worth anything is beyond me. Are you guys blind?

LOWER TAXES! LOWER TAXES! LOWER TAXES! GRAAAAARRRR! :laugh:

Most of it seems to be vague claims by advocacy groups. No doubt some of it is accurate as far as much larger, faster growing and traffic-congested U.S. metropolitan areas are concerned. However, I don't really see much that would apply to the specific situation of Winnipeg. What specific economic benefits would Winnipeg realize as the result of having a rapid transit system? A follow-up question would be: What evidence is there that these benefits would outweigh the costs of building the system? And a third would be: Could the same or greater benefits be realized in some less expensive way?

[QUOTE=Boris550;2723706

LOWER TAXES! LOWER TAXES! LOWER TAXES! GRAAAAARRRR! :laugh:[/QUOTE]

I think there is a far stronger economic case to be made for

LOWER TAXES! LOWER TAXES!

than there is for

RAPID TRANSIT! RAPID TRANSIT!

Oh wait, I forgot, the "University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Center for Economic Development," the "Transportation Research Board - National Research Council," and the "Victoria Transport Policy Institute" must also just be advocacy groups making "vague claims" such as:

"Expenditures on automobiles, fuel and roadway facilities provide relatively little regional economic activity because they are capital intensive and largely imported from other areas. A study using national input-output table data found that each 1% of regional travel shifted from automobile to public transit increases regional income about $2.9 million, resulting in 226 additional regional jobs (Miller, Robison & Lahr, 1999). These impacts are summarized in Table 6. As described earlier, Large Rail city residents spend an average of $448 less annually per capita on transportation than residents of Bus Only cities, despite higher incomes and longer average commute distances, totaling $22.6 billion in savings. If each million dollars in consumer expenditures shifted from automobile expenses to general consumer expenditures provides an average of 8.6 jobs and $219,000 in regional income, as indicated in Table 6, rail transit provides a total of 194,114 additional jobs and $4.9 billion in additional regional income in those cities."

Oh, and I guess Winnipeg also can't possibly complete with the mighty economic powerhouse of... Milwaukee... in 1992...

What alternatives would you have, road widenings? LOL

As of yet, neither you nor newflyer have presented a coherent argument against rapid transit backed by figures. You've merely muttered on about how it can't possibly work in Winnipeg and that the situation is somehow different from other "midwestern" cities.

I would doubt that the size of Winnipeg's economy is anywhere close to that of Greater Milwaukee, now or in 1992. The situation of Winnipeg is very different from those of other "midwestern" cities, because it is a much smaller city that already has heavy transit use and does not have a significant problem (compared to these other cities) with traffic congestion. It is also a very slow growth city that can't rely on forests of condos appearing overnight next to the new rapid transit stations and other such alleged benefits of rapid transit.

Ultimately, rapid transit is a way to move people around. In Winnipeg, people already move around pretty easily. Undoubtedly rapid transit would improve movement for some people to some degree, but I don't think that that improvement would make much of a difference to the economy or justify the cost of the system.

What can I say Boris, this is a town chocked full of pessimists and underachievers.

It can be very frustrating living here, this town used to dream big.

I know we can do it again..

I just pray to God that change happens sooner than later. :cool:

So rail transit is the be all and end of of thinking big??? Oh gee .... :slob:


Andy 6 has it exactly correct.... once you have a growing economy with some built up areas than rapid trasit can play a role within a growing city, but just throwing in a billion dollar rail trasit system will have little to not positive impact on a city with a weak economy... except to weaken it further with more debt and expenses.

It is obvious that in order to attract business you would need more than trains... unless the hundreds and hundreds of businesses in the chamber have it all wrong. :rolleyes:

Yes the Chamber has no idea about business... and Boris has spoken. :haha: You want to think big ... how about attarcting high paying jobs... how about broadening the tax base?? ... how about developing a high tech sector ... how about an exploding Bio-Med sector?? .... How about expanding the number of businesses within the city .... no no thats small beans compared to building trains.

Boris's links are definatly tilted towards a bias point of view, primarily with the input of people who know very little about building economies... but I am sure that has little to do with the arguement... as long as its on the web.

Look at Winnipeg's GDP per capita .. vs. Milwalkee .. Toronto .. Montreal ... or Calgary... or any other city Boris wants to mention. Go on and prove my point for me. Socialism has devistated Winnipeg's economy and you think trains will be the savior? Yeah okay ... you'll win the Nobel Prize of Economics with that theory. :koko:


Yup yup.. gotta be trains .. yup yup.. :fruit:

The National Business Coalition for Public Transit has an interesting list of members (http://www.apta.com/research/info/on...importance.pdf), p. 6:


Chicago Metropolis 2020
Chicagoland Chamber of Commerce
Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce
Downtown Tulsa Unlimited, Inc.
Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce
Greater Cleveland Growth Association
Greater Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce
Greater Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce
Greater Washington Board of Trade
Lancaster (PA) Chamber of Commerce
Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce
Metropolitan Planning Council (Chicago)
Miami (FL) Chamber of Commerce
Minneapolis Downtown Council
New Orleans Regional Chamber of Commerce
Oakland (CA) Chamber of Commerce
San Diego Chamber of Commerce
San Francisco Chamber of Commerce
Silicon Valley Manufacturers Group

Thanks for the links Boris.

Of course all the cities would be a part of such an organization .. they all have the economy and population to support a rapid transit system.

I don't think that list has a metro center which isn't at least twice the size of Winnipeg.. except New Orleans, which has been devistated by Katrina (but also doesn't have rapid transit).

At least compare apples with apples. Once Winnipeg has the population and economy to support an LRT I will be 110% behind it.

Chicago and LA have suburbs bigger than Winnipeg.

I'm sure Calgary wouldn't be nearly as successful as it is without light-rail. Without a rapid transit system there is no way the Winnipeg can grow in a sustainable way. That wasteful development costs the city hundreds of millions of dollars in additional infrastructure maintenance.

Nobody is denying that there should be tax cuts, I think most of them need to be made at the provincial and the ones that stifle investment need to be targeted.

sad but true

I think that everyone here knows that LRT won't be Winnipeg's saving grace. It's pretty obvious.

However, can someone please explain to me the logic on how cities such as Spokane, Wa. and K-W, Ont. with metro population of about 450 000 people are managing to impliment LRT, while Winnipeg continues to refuse to budge from the 17th century? :koko:

I agree with you Calgary wouldn't be the city it is today without trains.

My Point is you have to put the horse before the cart... set the ground work to make a successful economy, so that once a rail system is established the city can capitalize on it. Calgary was already a very business friendly city, once the C-Train system was set up. This is a very important point. If you try to do it in reverse .. (train first - economy second) once the rail system is in place the city's economy will be sattled with expenses that the small tax base can not afford, never mind focus any resouces on building the business sector through tax incentives.

We must focus on building the momentum towards greater prosperity first. We need to make Winnipeg an investment friendly city again. We need to draw investement, not just for the downtown, but for the Biomed City at the HSC and Smart Park at the UofM, as well other core business districts. These areas are made up of investment intensive operations. Biomed City needs to be empowered with R&D tax incentives, if it wants to attract more hightech operations. This also goes for hightech companies, who are looking for a place to establish operations. Winnipeg could and should be able to capitalize on this sector, with the amount of University and College grads being produced every year, but our economy does not allow for that. Cities like Ottawa, Vancouver and Montreal are eating our lunch.

The various large employers are calling for an end to the Payroll Tax, which is penalizing them for every new employee they hire and invest in. Winnipeg also suffers from a Capital Tax which is an extra tax on businesses who own capital (not land) worth over $5M. This retards the contruction business as any building which is worth over that 5M mark is giving an extra tax. Now also consider that Manitoba is one of the few governments in North America with these two excessive investment killing taxes.

Build the economy so there is a reason to increase transit capacity. It can't be built in reverse.

The Manitoba Chamber of Commerce is cautiously enthusiastic for rapid transit and recognizes its potential benefits but the MCC seem to be waiting for the city to propose a clearly articulated, staged plan.

http://www.winnipeg-chamber.com/PDF/...ew/Transit.pdf

Jimi or Galston, does TruWinnipeg know the status of the 2004-2005 Special Rapid Transit Task Force BRT plan? Has there been any movement at all to address the critera the MCC lay out here?