They can actually. Portugal has an excellent program for addicts where they essentially force them into treatment by decree of a special court. Only to be released once it's proven by a panel that they can safely become members of society again. In my opinion letting addicts walk around the downtown core in a haze is about the same as letting a senior dementia patient walk around the downtown core unattended. Most of these people aren't even aware that they're unwell.

There's a lot we can improve on with healthcare in this country, mental health and drug addiction would be a great start. The fact is progressive policies like safe injection sites, handing out needles and tents and other similar programs do absolutely nothing to solve the problem and leave our downtown core in the state it's in.

I've been trying really hard to bite my tongue every time you go on one of your anti-homeless/addicts rants but thats seriously fucked up shit right there.

To me it's not even completely wrong, we need to do something more constructive about people who refuse to be a part of society, but the way in which it is said with complete contempt for these people as nothing more than a nuisance, a pest. They are human beings who deserve as much if not more respect than any of us deserve. Addiction is a mental health issue that cannot be solved by anger and brute force. The same way problems aren't resolved by yelling or hitting each other.

It's the letting mentally unwell and drug addicted individuals walk around in the state they are in that is cruel. I just personally think we need a more heavy handed approach to giving them the help that they need. Because they are not in the correct state of mind to help themselves. I don't think they're a pest, I think they deserve respect and need help and I believe the system we have in place currently only makes things worse. I also think the system we have in place now completely lacks respect for these people, and only gives them the tools they need to further cause damage to themselves and the community.

We had a presumably mentally unwell individual burn down a historic building in the heart of the city this week, only to be released back into the public 24 hrs later. And to call that out for how ridiculous it really is, you'll be branded 'hateful'. These people need help, and help does not come in the form of leniancy in my opinion.

I walk around downtown all the time, and I see people in various states of complete psychosis due to drugs. It's sad, I feel for these people. I think to myself, that's someones daughter, son, brother. And we just allow them to continue in that state? Harming themselves and our community as a whole. We give them needles, food, tents, etc, so that they can just stay that way? Wandering around the streets in a drug fueled haze? It would be nice to see our health system take a more 'tough love' approach and actually help these people out, rather than these soft and useless approaches we have now.

Sorry if I touched a nerve Matt602. But this is how I feel about the topic.

I could no longer my bite my tongue a while back and went off on him for his complete disgusting disregard for these people. I couldn't find a block button on here so now I quickly scroll past his posts even if he has something constructive to say I can't be bothered to read it. I'll look at the photos but that's it.

It’s not outrageous or disgusting to suggest those who don’t have the means or wherewithal to provide for themselves should be forced into treatment.

Speak to the example he provided from Portugal.

It’s easy to get caught up in an emotional response but lets apply an ethical lens to the situation. Some of you will be surprised it’s not so black and white and will see there is merit in what he’s saying.

I believe it's the opposite. I agree with TheHonestMaple. The system as a whole has a total "disregard for these people", and it needs to be fixed. Sometimes there's a need for "tough love".

You can say that people with mental health and addictions issues need help in various ways without saying that these goddamn dirty druggie fuckups need to be locked away in institutions and away from the clean people!

I never once said that. What a complete mischaracterization of my position.

It’s weird isn’t it?

“Hey maybe we should incentivize and give benefits to addicts if they enter rehab and stay the course rather than simply allowing and monitoring their drug use?”

OMG how can you show such disregard to these people! You’re such an awful person I won’t read your posts but I will look at the pictures you post!!! - stec

Lol, this really is all some people see when they read even the most dispassionate opinion expressed "in various ways" from THMs side of this issue. I've never seen him post anything remotely like that.

Using dehumanizing terms like "nuisance" "bum" "druggie" "addicted littering the street" is toxic and does nothing to help the situation. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to explain the ways in which dog whistles for dehumanizing and having a complete lack of compassion for these people are being done.

Words matter, intent matters and outcomes matter. Like the term "old stock Canadians" not technically being racially insensitive, it's clear what the term is meant to invoke. Same as alt-right idealogues describing "the good old days". It's important to be careful in how you talk about others, and call out when you feel a group is being disrespected otherwise we risk making the mistakes of the past where we've dehumanized an entire group of people and aimed to remove them in various ways.

We already see problems where people aim to simply "move these people somewhere away" without recognizing that solves approximately nothing. Saying things like "just get a job" or "just put them in an institution" or "police should arrest and fine these people" seem to forget that the houseless, mentally ill and drug addicted folks live outside your societal norms and won't necessarily be incentivized or disincentivized the same ways you or I will. An arrest keeps me from doing anything illegal because I have my family, my house, my job my life to lose. These people have nothing, and aiming to take more away in the pursuit of solving the problem isn't really a solution.

We've been trying "tough love" for decades now, and yet the problem hasn't gotten better. I'm not disagreeing that some members of the community will refuse to join society when given the resources and option to, but that is a small minority of people, that has been artificially expanded because of a lack of resources. Talk to these people and recognize they didn't have a family support, some sound like they were never taught to take care of themselves and remember how hard it is for you as an adult to form new positive habits. Shit it's hard enough for most people to eat healthy, go to the gym, and not procrastinate. Imagine trying to get your life together with absolutely no reason to. Everytime you try you're back on the street, sleeping in the cold, or barely sleeping at that, you're told to go to a shelter where people scream, fight and the police ears there constantly.

I recognize I'm talking about this from a place of incredible privilege, with my health, my house, my job, and money that allows me to do nearly everything I like. Do you recognize that? And if so, do you speak about these marginalized people in such a way that respects the vast canyon of difference between your experiences in life and theirs?

The thing I find ironic is that people will dehumanize the homeless and the drug addicted until it's their family or friend, when all of a sudden they recognize it's the system. Pray you never have a family member or friend fall into the grips of homelessness and drug addiction, and know that if you do, they at least have you, because many have nobody.

Now get this shit back on topic, and stop speaking I'll of the homeless and drug addicted. Create a shit on homeless people thread on the main forum if you'd like, otherwise keep it to buildings and shit. I don't come here to read drivel about those lesser than us. Pick on someone your own size.

Just bringing forward the render....

You say all that, yet you don't present a better idea of how to solve the issue -- encouraging them into rehab seems pretty reasonable, especially if there's no better option/alternative :shrug:

Anyways, hopefully this gets built as proposed and with high quality materials

I literally have never used any of those terms. Ever. Why are you trying so hard to disparage me? I simply pointed out some flaws in our current ways of dealing with the issues in our city, and you're now claiming im making dog whistles? What the heck, man.

We recognize the huge difficulty and near impossibility to pull yourself from chronic homelessness and addiction alone. We also recognize some don’t operate in the same mindset as we do, which is understandable. If we accept these assumptions, how on earth is it speaking ill or shitting on the homeless to suggest they should be taken from the streets and given treatment?

Of course I don’t want to see homeless people but unlike you I actually care about the homeless and want to see action to have them improve through supervised treatment. Alternatively, you want empty notions of compassion and language to improve their situation.

Still no one spoke to THM’s post about Portugal’s addiction program. Instead you and Stec got hung up on choice of words as if that negates any merit to this discussion. Be more charitable to others.

What gets me is the crowd calling for compassion ends the discussion there and then act as if they are the moral authority on the matter.

You can keep going if you like, I can't stop you, pretending like I've censored you in some way is silly, continue to spout garbage if you please, I just suggest bringing it to a page not dedicated to this condo.

Not sure what it is, but in the past 7 years or so I've noticed a considerable decline in public discourse. People like TheRitsman or Stec just choose to insult and disparage people they disagree with. They add nothing of value to the conversation. Just hurl insults and call you 'hateful'. Pretty sad. No one in this forum 'spouted garbage'.

Or complain about designs of almost every proposal .