Agreed. Hate to see it torn down.

Would like to see it turned into a small little concert venue.

Time to move on downtown ‘game-changer’
Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer says any new arena in the city needs to built in combination with housing.

Sitting in his Montreal hotel room, not far from the Bell Centre where the Canadiens play, he says he used to see parking lots when he looked out the window.

That was just eight or nine years ago. Today? Three huge condo towers block his view. Which is a good thing. Thousands of people live there now. A thriving neighbourhood exists where things were once a little bleak.

"They just hurried up and made it happen," Michael Andlauer says. "Why can't Hamilton do the same thing?"

He may sound exasperated but he insists he's really not. In fact, the longtime owner of the Hamilton Bulldogs says he's feeling optimistic about the city's plan — pending a vote at council next Wednesday — to launch a $200,000 study to accelerate some decision on what to do not just with FirstOntario Centre but with all the downtown entertainment venues.

Economic development director Glen Norton says he wants such a study done and in front of city council by June.

"It's really a game-changer for our downtown, or could be," he told The Spectator's Andrew Dreschel a few days ago. "Let's not hold this up any further. Let's get on with what needs to be done."

Andlauer's delighted to hear this. He says he believes in the concept of private business being involved in some rebuild of the facilities. Based on his interest — just over a year ago he offered to match the city's contribution to a new arena dollar for dollar — and that of the Carmen's Group, there's plenty of evidence to suggests it legitimately exists.

But, he says the city has to make a decision about what it wants to do before private investors spend any more time trying to figure out what they can do.

"Once and for all, create a vision for this downtown core," he says.

While he has explored a variety of options of his own for arenas in the city, including locations outside the downtown and on the mountain, he says his preference is to work with the city within its eventual plan.

It just has to have one first.

Andlauer doubles back to what's happened in Montreal. A new arena by itself will do little to change the area. It has to be in combination with housing. There, the new condos have spurred other new development. Stores and restaurants have sprung up.

If Hamilton council could come up with a plan that would allow private interests to construct a new arena and convention centre in exchange for rights to the vertical space above those buildings for residential units and other development — or some other creative solution — the same story would likely play out here, too.

"It's where people want to be," he says.

Not really sure about making this decision based partially on an OHL team. The history of hockey in Hamilton has been so up and down I'm skeptical of putting city money for a small OHL sized arena, even with matching funds. I do like pairing it with housing, especially if it allows higher builds.

I don't think it makes sense for us to be in the arena business at all.

I think we should sell the site to a developer or firm that will redevelop it into a complex with an arena at least OHL-sized (ideally larger), and then give them height and density exceptions so they can offset those costs with residential towers. If the Bulldogs owner wants a brand new stadium dearly, he can pair up with a residential developer and match the cost of a new stadium with them.

It makes for an interesting debate on what if any community based facilities should or need to be city owned. I mean, just this single arena, or all, and then why not swimming pools, community centres, tennis courts, golf courses .... There is a huge laundry list of municipally owned assets that are arguably run better by the private sector.

The best part of this article is that it sounds like hes moved away from an arena at limeridge mall and wants to work with the city. The arena needs to stay downtown IMO, not the mountain.

I agree with it keeping it away from the mountain but we need to have a bigger pedestrian space outside of the arena. And if they do decide to relocate the arena somewhere else in the downtown zone, let's not pull a THF and put it in the east end, it doesn't suit the area. I'd try and push for it to be near the harbour, maybe near West-Harbour GO or keep it in the same spot (really need to figure out pedestrian areas).

Setting aside the fact that the Bell Centre is the largest indoor venue in the country (and that the Canadiens’ home game attendance is around four times that of the Bulldogs), Radley's opinion piece frames things very selectively, if not backwards.

Canadian Manufacturing, October 2015:

“Geoff Molson, the team’s president and CEO, who also runs the Bell Centre and event promotion company, Evenko, has unveiled plans to flood the rink with a $100 million investment. The funds are earmarked for improvements inside the arena as well as for the surrounding area.”

Montreal Gazette, October 2015:

"Much is being done outside the arena, as well. Molson has presented a plan to the city of Montreal to transform Avenue des Canadiens-de-Montréal (as de la Gauchetière was renamed between de la Montagne and Peel Sts.) into a pedestrian avenue, complete with a glassed-in entryway to the arena.

And on Thursday morning, a ribbon-cutting will officially open La Place des Canadiens on the east side of the Bell Centre. This is the rebranded “Centennial Plaza,” which stood on the west side of the arena — complete with statues of the legends, retired-jersey monuments, historic-moment markers and thousands of fan-purchased bricks — from its inauguration on Dec. 4, 2008, until it was given the boot by the first phase of the Tour des Canadiens high-rise condo project, still under construction.

Molson said details of a major sports restaurant, to be housed in the condo attached to the arena, soon would be announced.

All of this work, he explained, is being undertaken “to maintain the standard of excellence and quality of experience for visitors to the Bell Centre,” which regularly is near the top of North American arena rankings.

Molson spoke of the Canadiens’ home being in the heart of a real-estate boom, about a dozen new buildings around the arena expected to generate $70 million in annual tax revenues."


That real-estate boom predated the Molson $100M plan by several years, and overshadows it by an order of magnitude.

Montreal Gazette, September 2018:

On Wednesday, developers Cadillac Fairview and Canderel, along with their partners the Fonds immobilier de solidarité FTQ and the Canadiens, announced that construction has begun on what they’re calling the Quad Windsor Skybridge, an elevated glassed-in pedestrian bridge that will be built above St-Antoine St. It will link the Bell Centre and the Deloitte Tower, which is immediately to the east of the Habs rink, to the Tour des Canadiens 2 and 3 just on the other side of St-Antoine St. It will be over 200 feet long,20 feet above the ground and will be open to the public.

The developers are calling the area around the Bell Centre ‘Quad Windsor’ and Cadillac Fairview, which owns much of the land just south of the arena, has big plans to build other towers between the Bell Centre and Griffintown. The lead partners in the Canadiens towers project are Cadillac Fairview and Canderel.…

The first Tour des Canadiens opened in 2016. It contains 555 condos and is completely sold out. The second tower, with 585 units, is also 100 per cent sold. It will open in the summer of 2019. The third tower is currently a hole in the ground and is scheduled to be completed in 2021. It has 574 units and is almost sold out. Each tower cost around $150 million to build. The price range for the condos in all three towers are from $350,000 to more than $1 million.

“You understand what this area was back in 2005, 2006,” Salpeter said. “This area was really run down and it took a lot of vision. At Cadillac Fairview, we started to (buy) all the lands around the Bell Centre to really transform Montreal and we’re really proud to not only deliver the Tour des Canadiens towers but also the Deloitte tower, which is Cadillac Fairview’s.”

That would be the same Cadillac Fairview that built Hamilton's Eaton Centre in 1990, selling it at a 95% loss a decade later when its namesake retailer went bankrupt.

We do have pedestrian space outside copps. Lots of it. Jackson sq upper courtyard. Its just underutilized. If they keep the current location i agree that space needs to be better utilized!

Also i dont believe they would classify barton and gage as “downtown”. But you never know.

Well just because you make something an open space doesn't mean people will utilize it. There is really nothing up there for people to do - no stores or anything surrounding it - not enough plants and trees to not make it feel like a concrete jungle, and usually sketchy people hanging around the stairs which makes it feel like if you go up there you're going to get jumped by a bunch of hoodlums. The front of jackson square is still full of weirdos - whether its crazy religious fanatics or people punching each other in the face (I've seen that unfold right in front of me). It's a little TOO isolated up there - and the space is really just kinda unuseable. They should use it more for concerts imo. Set up a stage there, maybe have weekly charity concerts or something, sorta like the festival of friends. Maybe rebuild part of it to have some sorta arena seating. It would be the perfect space for a kinda outdoor odeon seating outdoor stage - you could then have an indoor arena and an outdoor stage.

That or just make it all gardens in there.. although it would have to be super monitored so that hoodlums don't tear it all up and destroy it - but the original plan for that area before a lot of it got canned called for gardens.

You can read more about it here:

https://www.academia.edu/16885107/Th...newal_Movement

and here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_D._Jackson_Square

Consensus on a plan would be challenging given the different leaseholders and stakeholders with varied priorities and operational time frames. Jackson Square is First Real Properties, around a third of the way into a 99-year lease. The arena has been operating on five-plus-one year lease cycles, and the Bulldogs’ tenancy agreement comes up for renewal every three. Then there’s the City Centre, whose third level also backs onto the rooftop plaza (and which has been sought by developer Brad Lamb for what would presumably be a substantial residential condo complex).

If I’m not mistaken, this area is a de facto fire route for adjacent towers, which presents additional challenges.

The biggest issue with amplified sound on the rooftop plaza, however, is the splash-and-slap you get from the ring of buildings at varied heights and angles. It’s a terrible place to stage live music, and having hotel and conference facilities directly off that area doesn’t help.

One issue with building an OHL sized arena is the loss of the ability to host bigger concerts. Dierks Bentley was at First Ontario last night. Would he come anyways if the venue was smaller? First is big enough that it is a regional draw for entertainment acts for Hamilton and I think it would be unfortunate to lose that.

Also I would be curious to know the total rent the OHL is paying versus all the rest of the acts. I would think the gate revenue for last night's concert would be many times what one OHL game would be.

This completely. Def Leppard is playing there soon, and they have had countless international acts play there. I live downtown and it is packed around downtown prior to, and following an event.

Is the idea to build a smaller arena and get rid of FOC, or have them co-exist?

I agree that something the size of FOC is needed to attract larger concerts/events. I just don't think we need a new large size arena, but I'm will to accept one (or even a small one) if it's 100% privately funded.

There won't be 2 arenas. There will be one or the other.

Then it's either a new NHL level arena 100% privately funded or no change at all. Not going to tear down FOC for a smaller arena.

If we somehow manage to get ourselves a smaller arena, that is a big loss for the city in creating additional revenue. Additionally, surrounding businesses would lose business if we downsize since big concerts and events draws people to eat and sleep nearby.

FOC needs to get a massive renovation or be rebuilt (mostly private).

Also, how busy is the concourse when the arena is full with 17,000+ spectators? Scotiabank Arena (Formely ACC) is extremely crowded and they have 2 concourses (one for upper, one for lower bowls).

What makes you say that? The city doesnt want to maintain an nhl arena without nhl tennants. FOC needs $40m in basic rehab over the next 5 years which the city cant afford. The bulldogs do not want an nhl sized arena and the city cant afford it. There isn't a business case for a privately run NHL size arena with no major tennant as well as an OHL size arena in Hamilton.

All signs point to a public private partnership at an arena smaller(how much smaller still TBD) than the current 17.5k FOC. Bulldogs probably want something around 10k and they are willing to pay for half, with any luck global spectrum or carmens group will front some capital costs and the citys investment will be minimal. Would be great if the private sector owned it eliminating the need for the city to sink million in operating and capital upkeep.

Perhaps a best case scenario would be something similar to Winnipeg at around 15K seats, but if the bulldogs(Andlauer) are putting in half the money and they say its too big, it'll probably get chopped down.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9...-it-worth-it-/

Andlauer said last year he'd like to build a new, smaller OHL-sized arena and offered to split the estimated $60-million-plus bill with the city.

It's great that the owner of the Bulldogs is willing to put in his own money, but the concept of a $60 million dollar arena is way too small-time for a city the size of Hamilton. It would help cement Hamilton as a bedroom community.

Moncton is a fraction the size of Hamilton and that city just built a $113 million arena:
https://globalnews.ca/news/4435982/a...-event-centre/

The 17,000-ish capacity of FirstOntario Centre has served the city very well and brought so many great events (Gretzky to Lemieux!) over the past few decades. Let's keep the arena size there. I would also like to never say never with respect to the NHL. Things can change much quicker than anyone can predict.

It is really annoying that people keep downsizing things in Hamilton....we are a good sized city with a lot going for us ...the FOC needs to remain the same size and get a complete facelift...there should also be a mixed use component incorporated into the reno (condos and retail).... I think the only people that would want to see Hamilton lose its competitive edge by having a venue the size of FOC would be outsiders who are threatened by Hamilton....I've heard stories of business owners and corporations from Toronto and other cities doing some shaddy things in order to keep Hamilton on the down and out .... Suggesting that we lose FOC and build something smaller and somewhere other than downtown sounds like one of these conspiracies lol