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Rizzo Oct 4, 2012 12:15 AM

Just a verbal update on the Esquire. Top of the exterior mostly finished with the lower levels currently covered in plywood. Looks like drywall is finally being installed in the restaurant up top. 2 of the 3 buildings next door have been demoed. Currently they are raising the level of the sidewalk 5 inches. Originally the sidewalk was nearly level with the street and with no parking, was typically used as a vehicle turnaround. With the planters and store entrances, that will no longer be allowed and there will be a curb + additional parking / valet.

vxt22 Oct 4, 2012 4:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 5849941)
^ Seriously? :rolleyes:

IIT gets what, exactly? IIT's sexy glass cubes are nice and all, but they accomplish nothing in making that part of town a place that I would rather spend more time. If IIT had even a drop of urban planning sense, they would understand that vast parking lots next to L stations are an 'underutilization of land'. Apparently, they have a lot to learn from Loyola and even UIC. Heck, even Depaul has plans to redevelop their large lot on Fullerton.

It's time to fill in those acres and acres of vacant lots near 35th and State with brick and mortar buildings, stores, people.

Beggars can't be choosers, and the south side is begging away...

Forgive me, but as an IIT alum I have a little to say about this.

IIT can't really fill those vacant lots no matter what urbanists would prefer for the simple reason that the university's endowment is VASTLY smaller than most any other top 100 university in the country. Call it the US tech brain drain if you want, but the fact remains that the university encountered significant financial stresses just building Koolhaas' MTCC (the green line 'tube') and Jahn's SSV building (the half toaster right next to the L).

There are huge plans for the campus, including ideas that would make many on this site very happy. But whatever happens is going to happen very, very slowly. In order to continue to attract enrollment on the S side of Chicago in what was once one of the worst neighborhoods in the country, IIT had to become a bargain option. They don't get to charge 50K a year like some others, and they're a far smaller university than UofC, NW, or even DePaul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward (Post 5850241)
Well I partially agree with what was said. IIT has slowly begun to fill in some of the areas with interesting architecture, but really that's about it. I think as far as the legacy of the area some of the Mies buildings are beautiful, but just the buildings. The campus design is hideous, but that's just my opinion and I'm spoiled by attending a university with a 150 y/o campus.

As to campus design, the favorite saying of the students at IIT is that IIT feels like an institution, not a university. To me it's a perfect example of the result of excessive top down urban planning -- academics congratulate themselves on a job well down and ignore the results on the ground. IIT's campus is acclaimed because in this case the results are better than in other cases, but that does not mean that urban renewal worked well here. Some of the Mies buildings are elegant and some downright brilliant, but they don't exist in a vacuum -- the neighborhood that came before was called 'The Stroll,' and it was Bronzeville's most important business strip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5850749)
My point was that architects need to stop all the self-flagellation and learn what was good about modernist urban planning. Housing projects failed in America for a complex array of reasons, with architecture low on the list. On the South Side, it's a real shame that we're mindlessly aping century-old cities a stone's throw from the seat of the transplanted Bauhaus.

I'm not defending park boulevard here -- my former roommates worked at 35th/State Jimmy John's and liked to tell stories about the shoddy building falling apart, but that said...

I fear that you may be suffering from an inability to imagine that there was something in this area in the time before the Bauhaus. It's difficult to communicate the extent of the damage done -- to Chicago culture, black culture, and the economic connection of the South side to the loop -- by your 'modernist urban planning.' Douglas was once one of the densest areas of the city. The intersection of 30th and Michigan had apartment buildings over 8 floors on the SW and SE corners. 31st Street was far denser than 35th, and fully half the buildings along the street were 5 floors or higher. The 10 floor Angelus Apartments stood on the corner of 35th and Indiana. Cottage grove had apartment houses of about that height where it met 31st, 33rd, 35th, 36th, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward (Post 5850241)
The campus design is hideous, but that's just my opinion and I'm spoiled by attending a university with a 150 y/o campus.

I'll quote Hayward again here, because IIT's campus is almost as old. At the NW corner of 35th/State there stood a bank and the 35th St Arcade Building, a 5 floor building with a ground floor arcade built in the 20s by one of the most prominent black banker/developers in Chicago (before the creation of the FHA made it impossible for these communities to finance their own improvements). There were THREE significant theaters on or immediately adjacent to the IIT campus. Burnham and Root's Mecca Flats, a significant location for jazz history, stood where Crown Hall stands now. Fraternity houses occupied intact meatpacker mansions lining the West side of S Michigan where Mies' boxes are now (I lived in those boxes, and they are no masterpieces). Amour's original flats investment building stood near main building. Four floor commercial buildings, likely queen anne due to the oriel windows seen on the sanborn maps, faced 31st and 35th within what is the current Mies campus.

So, ardecila, you want to say that your modernist urban planning was an improvement over that? A lot of the info above comes directly from IIT archives. Every one of these buildings was demolished between 1950 and 1965.

Brief sampling:

31st/Indiana
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/coll...ull/P04935.jpg

Masser Hotel 33rd/Wabash (within area of present IIT campus, demolished in early 60s)
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/coll...ull/P04262.jpg

Mansions on S Michigan (later frat houses, torn down for what are kindly described as poorly insulated boxes)
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/coll...ull/P04860.jpg

36th/Cottage. Just S of this building at the corner of 36th/Cottage there stood the Douglas Arcade building.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/coll...ull/P04312.jpg

Cyril Hotel at 36th/Ellis. (Ellis is the next St E of Cottage)
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/coll...ull/P04208.jpg

Vincennes Hotel at 36th/Ellis Park, meaning it fronts Ellis Park (the park described below) on 36th. 1st Chicago School hotels like these are largely long gone. They all became apartments long before they were demolished, of course.
http://chicagopc.info/Chicago%20post...otel%20345.jpg

There exists an old urban park, Ellis Park, to this day, but it is largely forgotten along with the neighborhood. It existed just South of where Vincennes and Cottage Grove used to converge. It used to be lined with four floor buildings with some as high as 8 stories. Truly this is a forgotten neighborhood. It is absurd that urban intersections like these are not at least restored to their prior states.

Hotel Surrey at 35th/Ellis
http://pictures.historicimages.net/p...000/437386.jpg

30th/Michigan
http://www.chicagopc.info/Chicago%20...otel%20ext.jpg

Potomac Apartments, other side of 30th/Michigan, demolished earlier than 50s
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma...9v1io1_500.jpg

modkris Oct 4, 2012 5:31 AM

Thanks vxt22. Those were some beautiful buildings that once stood down there. Such a shame.

ardecila Oct 4, 2012 7:35 AM

You brought out the Cushman on me, eh? Not a lot of those funky eclectic highrises survived from the Victorian era... probably why the Divine Lorraine in Philly, or the Rookery in Chicago, are now so unique.

Answering your main point, I don't need to think about what was there previously. I can't posit an alternate future where racism still exists and the building stock is still heavily degraded after two decades of Depression and World War (on top of the usual slumlord disinvestment) yet Le Corbusier never created the Plan Voisin and unleashed modernist planning on the world. It's not in my power and it's a useless academic exercise.

What I do know is that the IIT campus and other modernist developments in the area, apart from those owned by CHA, are attractive and pleasant to my eyes, and I enjoy them in person as well (even in winter). I have not lived in the area, so I do value your first-hand impressions of the modernism that exists there. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that your opinion is conditioned by two or three decades of anti-modernist thought, the same way people in the 1950s and 60s were conditioned to think of bustling traditional neighborhoods as slums.

Today, it falls to IIT, CHA, and other stakeholders to imagine a future in which the functional shortcomings of the modernist designs are addressed without resorting to an imitation of what used to be there. Try as they may, CHA cannot recreate the vitality of Bronzeville by recreating the appearance. It didn't work in Kansas City and won't work here. Instead, we need to identify the issues and let the neighborhood adapt on an ad-hoc basis. A certain quad is too windswept? Bring in some strategic trees, or respectfully modify a nearby building. Cars speed too fast? Think about what can be done on the median and edges to change driver perceptions. This is what we do with "historic buildings", after all, and we call it adaptive reuse. When new buildings are necessary, they should also incorporate open space within and around the building, maximize light and air, maybe setbacks, etc.

Ch.G, Ch.G Oct 4, 2012 8:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5854941)
What I do know is that the IIT campus and other modernist developments in the area, apart from those owned by CHA, are attractive and pleasant to my eyes, and I enjoy them in person as well (even in winter). I have not lived in the area, so I do value your first-hand impressions of the modernism that exists there. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that your opinion is conditioned by two or three decades of anti-modernist thought, the same way people in the 1950s and 60s were conditioned to think of bustling traditional neighborhoods as slums.

Today, it falls to IIT, CHA, and other stakeholders to imagine a future in which the functional shortcomings of the modernist designs are addressed without resorting to an imitation of what used to be there. Try as they may, CHA cannot recreate the vitality of Bronzeville by recreating the appearance. It didn't work in Kansas City and won't work here. Instead, we need to identify the issues and let the neighborhood adapt on an ad-hoc basis. A certain quad is too windswept? Bring in some strategic trees, or respectfully modify a nearby building. Cars speed too fast? Think about what can be done on the median and edges to change driver perceptions. This is what we do with "historic buildings", after all, and we call it adaptive reuse. When new buildings are necessary, they should also incorporate open space within and around the building, maximize light and air, maybe setbacks, etc.

Couldn't have been said any better. Post of the year. :tup:

the urban politician Oct 4, 2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modkris (Post 5854868)
Thanks vxt22. Those were some beautiful buildings that once stood down there. Such a shame.

A shame indeed, and we will probably never see anything like this in the area again.

:(

wrab Oct 4, 2012 5:10 PM

Ardecila, that was an especially eloquent post.

In our current zeitgeist, mid-century modernism is a tough sell. Pity, because Chicagoland has some of the planet's best and boldest.

wrab Oct 4, 2012 5:15 PM

'Bought time, IMHO. Cross-posted in the transportation sub-forum:

The Chicago Tribune
CTA unveils design plans for Wilson station
By Jon Hilkevitch
Tribune reporter
7:48 a.m. CDT, October 4, 2012


The CTA has released design plans to overhaul the Red Line's deteriorated Wilson station, in advance of a public meeting scheduled for next week to solicit feedback and ideas from riders, residents and Uptown business owners.

The $203 million reconstruction project on the 89-year-old station is set to begin next year and continue into 2015, officials said. It will be the second-largest CTA station reconstruction project currently planned, behind the $240 million 95th Street/Dan Ryan Red Line terminal modernization.....

Read complete article here.

Tom Servo Oct 4, 2012 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Zekas (Post 5851613)

Whoa, nice! This is really kick-ass awesome!!! :yes: The lack of parking in this city has really gotten out of hand. I really wish more projects in this city were more thoughtful. Banana time. :banana:

the urban politician Oct 4, 2012 6:57 PM

How the Prentice controversy could benefit Chicago
 
I think NWU has Chicago cornered, in a sense. Essentially they are saying, if you want jobs, and if you want Chicago to be a center of biomedical research, do it my way or the highway. In other words, let us tear down Prentice so that we can carry on our vision.

Now while anything can happen, in this horrible economy and with Rahm slowly running out of new jobs announcements, especially with his approval rating needing a boost, I suspect Rahm will cave in to NWU. Rahm cares about votes, and far more voters care about jobs and the economy than architecture--sad but true.

If I were Rahm and I agreed to allow Prentice to be demo'd, I'd make some serious back room deals:

1. NWU is a powerhouse in Chicago, the midwest, and even the nation. No question about it. Use NWU's power & alumni structure to convince a company to relocate their headquarters to Chicago. Make such an announcement a requirement before approving the Prentice demolition. In fact, time the announcement of Prentice's landmark rejection simultaneously with the announced relocation of a corporate headquarters to the city--ahh, how that would really lessen the blow.

2. Require no less than world class design for the new biomedical research center

3. Require NWU to donate some of their land as open space for Streeterville. Streeterville could use another nice pocket park, if you ask me.

Perhaps there are other ideas out there, but at this point I think the city has a bit of leverage to extract concessions. Thoughts?

Standpoor Oct 4, 2012 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo (Post 5855366)
Whoa, nice! This is really kick-ass awesome!!! :yes: The lack of parking in this city has really gotten out of hand. I really wish more projects in this city were more thoughtful. Banana time. :banana:

Think of all the jobs lost without those parking spaces. What would tow companies do if each individual strip mall did not have their own parking lot where they could tow your car if you even glance at another strip center, let alone walk over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 5855526)

2. Require no less than world class design for the new biomedical research center.

While in no way would I be for tearing it down, if I thought I was going to get more than just the usual Northwestern Hospital crap, I would be much more amenable to destruction.

ardecila Oct 4, 2012 11:08 PM

It's weird how Northwestern University has been relatively progressive with additions to the historic Evanston campus, yet they want warmed-over Postmodernism for the hospital. I don't even understand the relationship between the two institutions.

Did we ever see the renderings for the RIC project nearby? There was a lot of hype about world-class design on that project, too, but I seem to remember a pretty conservative rendering (i think it was modern-ish in the vein of Childrens).

ardecila Oct 4, 2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrab (Post 5855337)
Ardecila, that was an especially eloquent post.

In our current zeitgeist, mid-century modernism is a tough sell. Pity, because Chicagoland has some of the planet's best and boldest.

I understand your point, but it's interesting to look at the world of fashion and designed objects, where mid-century stuff has become highly valued. Mad Men is usually evoked when people describe this, but I think it's bigger than that. I think there's a somewhat nostalgic desire for a "zeitgeist" in which progress can be blithely pursued without self-consciousness and fear of side effects. People are made to feel guilty at the sweatshop labor that produces their iPhones, even as the iPhone is a symbol for clear progress.

vxt22 Oct 5, 2012 2:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5854941)
You brought out the Cushman on me, eh? Not a lot of those funky eclectic highrises survived from the Victorian era... probably why the Divine Lorraine in Philly, or the Rookery in Chicago, are now so unique.

Answering your main point, I don't need to think about what was there previously. I can't posit an alternate future where racism still exists and the building stock is still heavily degraded after two decades of Depression and World War (on top of the usual slumlord disinvestment) yet Le Corbusier never created the Plan Voisin and unleashed modernist planning on the world. It's not in my power and it's a useless academic exercise.

What I do know is that the IIT campus and other modernist developments in the area, apart from those owned by CHA, are attractive and pleasant to my eyes, and I enjoy them in person as well (even in winter). I have not lived in the area, so I do value your first-hand impressions of the modernism that exists there. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that your opinion is conditioned by two or three decades of anti-modernist thought, the same way people in the 1950s and 60s were conditioned to think of bustling traditional neighborhoods as slums.

Today, it falls to IIT, CHA, and other stakeholders to imagine a future in which the functional shortcomings of the modernist designs are addressed without resorting to an imitation of what used to be there. Try as they may, CHA cannot recreate the vitality of Bronzeville by recreating the appearance. It didn't work in Kansas City and won't work here. Instead, we need to identify the issues and let the neighborhood adapt on an ad-hoc basis. A certain quad is too windswept? Bring in some strategic trees, or respectfully modify a nearby building. Cars speed too fast? Think about what can be done on the median and edges to change driver perceptions. This is what we do with "historic buildings", after all, and we call it adaptive reuse. When new buildings are necessary, they should also incorporate open space within and around the building, maximize light and air, maybe setbacks, etc.

A few of those didn't survive past 1950 (burned out apts and the Potomac Apartments), but most of them did, and were destroyed in one of the many urban renewal projects in the area.

It's true that nobody can do anything about the past, but I believe it's important to remember what was there before, especially if we're going to continue to pay lip service to Bronzeville's african-american history. My post, however, is largely a response to your contention that being an American epicenter for modernism, Bronzeville should build on that legacy. So what I'm saying to you is that just as much as it's been a bauhaus center (and I'd argue an artificially created one via eminent domain threats, institutional creep, 'public-private partnership,' and the like, whereas the first built environment was resident-built) it was also a center for dense 1st Chicago school apartment buildings and bustling brightlight strips before that.

And why does it have to be an imitation of what used to be there? Why can't the area be rebuilt on narrow, urban lots like it was, not in identical styles but with a mix, with modernism not taking the form of buildings that take up only 20 percent of the land they sit on but rather filling lots to the line? There is nothing wrong with modernism. There are big problems, including serious economic ones, with tower-in-a-park, separate uses, massive-land-assembly top down planning.

That is what needs to be reversed throughout all of Bronzeville.

A mostly unrelated question -- why do you think that the 1st Chicago school is any less modernist than the second? Because there is some sparse ornament and most buildings are built with brick and stone facades rather than steel and glass?? Isn't that a personal preference? I think that as long as a developer cares enough to do it correctly, it is increasingly feasible (in this era of increased availability of materials used for restoration) to build buildings in the form of the first Chicago school. If done correctly, I don't think it would be an "imitation" at all, but rather a revival of an indigenous Chicagoan architectural style.

In my opinion it's unfortunate that "progress" as a mindset involves the assumption that everything that came before is a more primitive evolution of, and therefore an inferior precursor to, what is happening now. Why does the bauhaus have to swallow the 1st Chicago School (like medicare/medicaid swallowed fraternal organizations and the FHA swallowed local financing) and proclaim itself a superior architecture just because it came later?

ardecila Oct 5, 2012 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vxt22 (Post 5856109)
A mostly unrelated question -- why do you think that the 1st Chicago school is any less modernist than the second? Because there is some sparse ornament and most buildings are built with brick and stone facades rather than steel and glass?? Isn't that a personal preference? I think that as long as a developer cares enough to do it correctly, it is increasingly feasible (in this era of increased availability of materials used for restoration) to build buildings in the form of the first Chicago school. If done correctly, I don't think it would be an "imitation" at all, but rather a revival of an indigenous Chicagoan architectural style.

Isn't this basically the gist of Dearborn Park I? Or South Commons? I am fine with both, apart from the way they are sealed off like fortresses. Both contain wonderful spaces of various size, large, intimate, etc.

There was a whole group of architects in that era who synthesized facets of both Chicago Schools - Harry Weese, Ezra Gordon, etc.

I'm fine with drawing inspiration from the past (have you seen my signature? look down.) but it's just as important to push the limits of organization, composition, and building technology. Postmodernism produced some really crappy juxtapositions of the two (Michael Graves, Charles Moore, etc) so direct inspiration should be used in moderation.

vxt22 Oct 5, 2012 7:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5856297)
Isn't this basically the gist of Dearborn Park I? Or South Commons? I am fine with both, apart from the way they are sealed off like fortresses. Both contain wonderful spaces of various size, large, intimate, etc.

There was a whole group of architects in that era who synthesized facets of both Chicago Schools - Harry Weese, Ezra Gordon, etc.

I'm fine with drawing inspiration from the past (have you seen my signature? look down.) but it's just as important to push the limits of organization, composition, and building technology. Postmodernism produced some really crappy juxtapositions of the two (Michael Graves, Charles Moore, etc) so direct inspiration should be used in moderation.

Not really, no. They're both master planned developments, and South Commons' land was assembled with the help of big brother. Both of them fall victim to the tower-in-the-park planning conceit. I don't see anything about these developments that is at all related to the 1st Chicago School, other than the buildings are made out of brick.

I don't like PoMo any more than you, for the record. The proportions, materials, and quality are all wrong. Architects couldn't commit to anything. As for composition and tech, I don't see how that eliminates the choice of older styles of facade. You wouldn't say all old buildings are derivative, would you? Or uncreative? For that matter, the 1st Chicago school can hardly be called traditionalist. It truly is modernist. And building tech doesn't necessarily have much to do with the chosen facade.

SamInTheLoop Oct 5, 2012 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 5855526)
I think NWU has Chicago cornered, in a sense. Essentially they are saying, if you want jobs, and if you want Chicago to be a center of biomedical research, do it my way or the highway. In other words, let us tear down Prentice so that we can carry on our vision.

Now while anything can happen, in this horrible economy and with Rahm slowly running out of new jobs announcements, especially with his approval rating needing a boost, I suspect Rahm will cave in to NWU. Rahm cares about votes, and far more voters care about jobs and the economy than architecture--sad but true.

If I were Rahm and I agreed to allow Prentice to be demo'd, I'd make some serious back room deals:

1. NWU is a powerhouse in Chicago, the midwest, and even the nation. No question about it. Use NWU's power & alumni structure to convince a company to relocate their headquarters to Chicago. Make such an announcement a requirement before approving the Prentice demolition. In fact, time the announcement of Prentice's landmark rejection simultaneously with the announced relocation of a corporate headquarters to the city--ahh, how that would really lessen the blow.

2. Require no less than world class design for the new biomedical research center

3. Require NWU to donate some of their land as open space for Streeterville. Streeterville could use another nice pocket park, if you ask me.

Perhaps there are other ideas out there, but at this point I think the city has a bit of leverage to extract concessions. Thoughts?


In a big way I disagree with your premise - I think it could very easily be seen that Chicago has NWU cornered. NWU needs this new facility, and it's absolutely preposterous for them to claim it needs to be built on the Prentice parcel. It's a laughable stance actually - they need this large new facility, and it needs to be in Streeterville (this isn't some corporation that can make semi-plausible threats that it's going to build it elsewhere or relocate), where there are numerous options, including the huge parcel right across the street (where a suitable hospital/university deal is there to be had, if Rahm just shoes a backbone and stands up to any bluffs and this nauseating hamhanded pr campaign by NWU. Prentice should be saved, NWU will build its research facility on another site, AND they should still be arm-twisted into producing great design instead of their typical spirit-deadening dreck....

SamInTheLoop Oct 5, 2012 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5855901)
It's weird how Northwestern University has been relatively progressive with additions to the historic Evanston campus, yet they want warmed-over Postmodernism for the hospital. I don't even understand the relationship between the two institutions.

Did we ever see the renderings for the RIC project nearby? There was a lot of hype about world-class design on that project, too, but I seem to remember a pretty conservative rendering (i think it was modern-ish in the vein of Childrens).


As far as I know it was only that one grainy rendering of the new RIC that has been out there. To me the design looked promising - I got a much better vibe from the architecture than Children's (granted, it's a limited amount to go on). As far as size, I think it may be something like 25 stories, 700,000 sq ft, but that's just ballpark from memory. I'm looking forward to seeing more, and it shouldn't be a long wait I'd think. I'm actually surprised it hasn't gone before the Plan Commission yet (assuming that it needs to), but I'm guessing it's almost certain to appear on the agenda before year-end....

sentinel Oct 5, 2012 2:16 PM

This image of the new RIC tower was posted here and in curbed back in January I believe:

http://i.imgur.com/dX5p1.jpg

I can't tell if the view is looking west or south :/

sentinel Oct 5, 2012 2:35 PM

North Grant Park, the new 'Maggie Daley' Park (by Michael Van Valkenburgh & Associates) - I believe these are the final plans after two years of development and community input:

http://northgrantpark.org/media/file...94361030cd.jpg

http://northgrantpark.org/media/file...a84291536f.jpg

http://northgrantpark.org/media/file...460a424dd2.jpg

http://northgrantpark.org/media/file...fa34293d10.jpg

http://northgrantpark.org/media/file...fb177b8e41.jpg

http://www.northgrantpark.org/photo_...?id=18&image=2

http://www.northgrantpark.org/look.php

I believe work has already begun? Can anyone confirm?


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