More stores for the domain.

http://www.statesman.com/business/co.../0610saks.html

Took the inlaws to the Domain last week, was aware of how hard it was for them to walk it in the heat. Once all is said and done... the retail will be really spread out. Does anyone know if there is any plan for an internal "mass transit" within the development, or will people be getting in their cars to drive from the Dillards' to the Whole Foods? Ya know?

That is a great point to bring up. I agree there needs to be some sort of possible trolly line or something to get people to move from one part of the area to the other. When I went to visit my sister in Shreveport La, they have a boardwalk along the Red River on the Bossier City side that has a trolly that takes people from one side to the other.

I for one would rather be in an indoor mall like Barton Creek Square this time of year especially with this abnormally hot and dry weather we have been having. But I do think if they want that area to be a second downtown they are going to need some sort of mass transportation for inside the Domain Development.

C'mon, people actually WALK from Dillard's to Whole Foods? Only the ones who live in between the stores will walk. I bet people drive from Macy's to Neiman's now....but in the heat we have lately I probably would, I work there but I don't shop there.

Yay sprawl

The article notes that TWELVE Domain will break ground next year.

From the Austin American-Statesman
http://www.statesman.com/business/co...806westin.html

First of four hotels to get underway at the Domain

By Shonda Novak
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Wednesday, August 06, 2008

Construction is expected to start as soon as next month on Austin's first Westin hotel at Simon Property Group's Domain project in North Austin.

The eight-story hotel will have 340 rooms and more than 14,000 square feet of meeting room and banquet space, as well as a themed restaurant and bar, said Scott Travis, vice president of development for White Lodging Services Corp., which will jointly own the hotel with Simon.

White Lodging will develop the hotel at a cost of $70 million to $75 million and manage it, Travis said.

Despite a decline in the hotel market nationwide because of the economic downturn, "Austin continues to be a solid market," Travis said.

"We currently operate 17 hotels in the Austin market. And based on the growth on the north end of town, we feel strongly that demand to support this type of hotel and the quantity of rooms is sufficient," he said.

The hotel will be part of an expansion of the Simon project that also will include a Dillard's and a Dick's Sporting Goods. It will be south of the original project, which includes Neiman Marcus and other high-end retailers as well as apartments.

Just east of the Simon project, Endeavor Real Estate Group is working on a separate project, also called Domain, that will include three hotels, as well as retail, residential and office space.

Work on a six-story Aloft boutique hotel at the Endeavor project is expected to start in about a month. That hotel will be a joint venture of Open Hospitality Partners, a Dallas-based firm, and Lodgeworks of Wichita, Kan.

Developers have closed on the land and should break ground in about a month, said Mark Masinter, president of Open Hospitality.

Work should start next year on Twelve Domain, a 145-room hotel that will be part of a 28-story condominium tower. Atlanta-based Novare Group and its Austin partner, Andrews Urban, are co-developing that project.

The hotel market in Northwest Austin is strong, with a 7.3 percent increase in the average daily room rate in the first five months of the year, to $116.73, according to PKF Consulting.

That's almost double the year-over-year growth rate of the Austin market overall, said Camille Kapoor, a PKF consultant in the firm's Houston office.

Occupancy rates in Northwest Austin were 74.3 percent, down slightly from 75 percent a year ago.

"Northwest Austin is doing well," Kapoor said, thanks largely to a strong base of major employers nearby.

The list includes IBM Corp,. Apple Inc., National Instruments and Flextronics, plus the University of Texas' J.J. Pickle Research Campus.

In addition, more than 3.5 million square feet of first-class office space either opened recently or is under construction in Northwest and far Northwest Austin. Northwest Austin's office market, which had a vacancy rate of 13.7 percent for first-class space at the end of 2007, has been faring better than the market as a whole, which had a vacancy rate of 15.9 percent at year-end 2007.

"As long as the office space continues to be absorbed at the current rate and new buildings are filled, you'll continue to see demand for business-related hotel stays," Kapoor said.

Simon's Domain also has office space, and Endeavor has started work on the first office building at its project — a 175,000-square-foot building that eventually will be part of 3.5 million to 4 million square feet of office space at the project.

Randy McCaslin, a vice president with PKF Consulting, said Austin has four strong sources of demand for hotel rooms — business, leisure, group and government segments — that cushion the area more than some other markets against downturns in the economy.

Travis at White Lodging agreed.

Couple Austin's diverse economy "with the stability and growth of the city itself," he said, and that "tends to make the city more resilient than the majority of other markets."

I'm somewhat surprised Twelve Domain is still in the near-term plans.... at least the condo portion. A 28 story condo tower in a "relatively' unproven outlying urban development would seem a bit risky in the current economic environment. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see it built!

There was orginally a section of the Twelvehotels site dedicated to Twelve Domain, which is now redirected to the main site

http://www.twelvedomain.com

Time will tell.

In regard to timing developments....

It takes at least 2 years to deliver a major building. Our boom started during good times and buildings are finishing during bad. Frost actually had the ruthless mind set of wall street to buy low - they started building at the worst time post 911. They finished as we were emerging into a boom and set $$ records when selling off the building.

If I were an investor I would time things up like the stock market. Start plans in worst of times [labor should be lower price - however you can't control commodities/materials]. It takes 2 years! What will the economy be like in 2010/2011 is what you have to ask if you are just beginning something.

You make a very good point ATXboom. Where I was coming from really had more to do with the scale of the project in a very young development. Now if the 3-5 year masterplan of the Domain emerges as envisioned, then certainly this risk may very well pay off nicely. I certainly hope it does.

The Westin will be too bulky. 8 Stories and 350 rooms? wow talk about a massive footprint. If they are planning to build a 28 story hotel/condo in the area, you would think they would build up on the Westin. This project is not smart growth in my opinon... Shame on the developers:yuck:

I'm curious what kind of price/per square foot they are going to try for at the twelve domain condos. I know the 360 was around mid $300s to mid $400s, so I'm guessing the domain location would need to be cheaper, but there has got to be some floor based on construction costs.

Large rendering now on White Lodging's website

http://www.whitelodging.com/images/u...inwestinLG.jpg

http://www.whitelodging.com/

That rendering says it all, look at how long the building is! They could have easily cut that footprint in half and add another 8 floors to make it 16 stories.

Pardon me. but....blah..... now make that 5 or 6 time taller and you probably have the new Marriott on Congress. Same developer.

^ Wow. Its really plain. Looks almost like Holiday Inn's early 2000s prototype.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8...nnlargeoo6.jpg

you're right with regards to the market cycle. what makes this one different is that the sources of finance are the ones that are taking the bath on wall street, drying up the capital that fuels these projects. i bet they want to build - the question is whether they can get the financing to build...

TOTALLY agree dude! A small billboard with a variation of this rendering has been on site since last March when the first phase of the Domain was completed. I was disappointed then, and even more so now, knowing it is under the Westin hotel flag. :shrug:

Wake me when it's built. :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

Funny man!

And yeah Mopacs. Maybe if it was a Holiday Inn I would be all happy for Holiday Inn. But Westin? .....and @ the Domain? I think it tell s us even more about White Lodging.

This is from the top parking deck looking South. Looking at maps, I believe this may be the beginning of construction on Dick's Sprting Goods (not certain though):

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7...insouthkj6.jpg

This is looking North at the Domain from Braker:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3...innorthwr6.jpg

And this is looking to the East at the progress of the first new office building. (Burnet Rd. is just beyond):

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7...ebrakerio1.jpg