Nothing says 'come have some casino fun' like a location surrounded by sterile office towers.

Those who would be going for the casino/resort wouldn’t be going for the office towers. Their minds would be on the casino. If anything, you could question it the other way around. Did those companies who filled those office towers do so with the idea that a casino would join? Likely not. But I don’t think it matters. Hudson Yards is already Times Square west. This is still one of my top 3 picks, the others being Coney Island and Times Square. That’s if the state wants to get bang for the buck.

3 million SF? Holy cow, hope it happens. This could be very tall :cheers:

Before I even start, yes I know this is heavy hopium.

I hope this 3M sqft tower is even taller than the proposal for 418 11th Ave (the only one we've been shown)

Obviously it's likely to be more fat and squat, but I hope the hotel components and resort aspects mean the developers want it to be more tall to get higher prices.

Once things kick back up, next cycle I feel will start with a nice boom. Right now if folks haven't noticed, its kind of slow.

I think they want something that could make a statement. This is one of the few sites in the City where you could do that. Related wants to be the center of attention at Hudson Yards, and maybe the prospect of the Affirmation Tower topping 30 Hudson is enough for them to opt for something as tall.



That's saying a lot for a skyscraper in New York. I wonder if they're retaining some of the architects who were already planning towers on the site. I can already hear the NIMBYs gearing up to fight this "tall" proposal, as if the other towers weren't going to be tall anyway.

As for the new office tower:


Interestingly, this places Related's Hudson Yards in a similar position to the World Trade Center. Both complexes are basically full, with another office tower waiting in the wings. We know that these new office towers are filling up because of the lack of new office space. Who will build first? Meanwhile, towers like 15 Penn and 3 Hudson continue to stumble. Vornado's 350 Park found its groove, but the other 2 throw too many mixed signals.

Well, I'm glad the Related Companies casino project is finally out. Too bad it wasn't presented with pictures. I believe the 3 million-square-foot tower will be the tallest in the area - 1,700 or 1,750ft. I don't think the NIMBYs have strength here. Certainly this tower together with the Affirmation Tower will redesign the New York skyline. :)

I know you can't be picky, but if there's any place in this country to build a 2,000 footer, it's here.

Maybe a redemption for the Hudson Spire? Lol. I know that was never a real proposal but it was a cool concept.

I’m trying to analyze that statement, but I think the emphasis there was on an incredibly “tall” building, not just a standout design. It would be great to have both, but it doesn’t really take much to make a very tall building iconic with a little effort. I don’t want to speculate heightwise, but probably at leadt taller than 30 Hudson. It would be something that would be a destination unto itself. I’m ok with not too many details for now. Less for the NIMBYs to scream about.

There are about 6 and a half msf of development rights here, so depending on what those sizes are based on (a 3 msf zoned tower would end up in total above 3.5 msf), 3 msf for the hotel,casino, 2 msf for the office tower, and that leaves the rest for residential and the school.

It would be insane if a building taller than 30 Hudson was built in phase 2. Is there anything going on with phase 2 now that 50 Hudson is done or not yet? Also what's the deal with Affirmation, I feel like I haven't heard that name since it went viral a few years ago.

you are exactly right, but i hope that wide base is a nice incentive to go tall. :tup:

The casino bid is for phase 2. As for the Affirmation Tower, that development site is still on hold by the governor. Which brings up another elephant in the room. The full block site between the Javits and the casino/hotel proposal. That’s the other state owned site that will be subject to an RFP, once the governor realizes they still exist.



https://www.gamesbras.com/english-ve...ect-37644.html

Wynn plans US$10 billion New York City casino project


May 30, 2023



I can see the movie now. “The Towering Casino”.

Stakes is high

If 175 Park Avenue, Affirmation Tower and another ~500 meter tower here all manage to get built that would blow minds. Midtown alone is already one of the best skylines on earth.

I guess that's a big if but still fun to think about.

^Let's not ignore site 4 at the PABT. That's also a contender to look out for.

^Yes, site 4 at the PABT but and 360 10th Avenue too.

But speaking of this site, I wonder what they'll do at the base to spice it up? Mini waterfall? Large fountain? It'll be interesting to wait and see.

Major new tourist and regional destination in the making. Will be great for the local economy and businesses with all of the tourists and visitors.

Tubes on the facade that shoot out and reign down cash at the top of the hour every hour. That or full frontal nudity.

^ I wouldn't be opposed

This made me giggle.

That's still on the boards, though it hardly makes any news because it's part of a large redevelopment that will be built on Port Authority land, unlike the Penn Station redevelopment.



There was talk in an earlier article posted here of a waterfall, and one of the animated characters. Don't know if that was before the revised plans. Here it is again, sounds like the hotel has grown in size since then...




The current proposal calls for a 1,700 room hotel. At 3 msf of floor space, the total size would be somewhere between 3 and 4 msf. A huge development on its own.



https://a4.pbase.com/g13/06/102706/2....02d82bb1.JPEG

A look at the distribution of development, pre-casino proposal...



https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...Anpr1AR.d2.jpg



https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...HjRO3Ol.s2.jpg

I hope they swap the office/retail lot plan with the residential/school lot. It seems that if they don't, we may get another fat boxy tower that will not be taller than 1000 feet so as not to spoil the view of 30 HY observation deck, whereas a taller tower on the other side (residential/school lot) would not spoil the view and would also better balance out the skyline in this area.

The outdoor portion of the deck faces southeast so I don’t think it would really be an issue

One thing I’ve been thinking about is the tower design. Most of the Wynn resorts look similar. But they wouldn’t try to replicate that with a supertall, right?



https://thenevadaindependent.com/art...-casino-in-uae

Wynn unveils plans and renderings for a 1,000-foot-tall hotel-casino in UAE


https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.t...d-1200x683.jpg


Howard Stutz
April 28th, 2023

Wynn and Related proposed a 3 million square foot resort tower and a 2 million square foot office tower for Hudson Yards. What if the towers were like this? :) (WUHAN Fosun Bund Center Phase 2 - 480m+390m).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cg...e-jpg.1557109/

They most likely would want to keep the casino/resort and office components separate. These casinos are also supposed to contend with (or conform to) city zoning. So while there is no height limit, we’ll see how far the design envelope gets pushed.

Wow ! Now that’s some great architecture, Sky88 !

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/?p=804785

Lander on Hudson Yards: “I got it wrong”
Comptroller admits development producing more tax revenue than expected


https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/u...m-1024x640.png


JUN 20, 2023
By Erik Engquist

The tax revenue will jump even more once the residential components are built out.

They get it wrong on a lot of things. The more development, the less opposition to things getting built, the more tax revenue. Density = more tax revenue... because... well... more people and businesses to pay... TAXES!

:fruit: :fruit: :takemymoney: :fruit: :fruit:

It's also more tax revenue per the size of infrastructure. That sidewalk and street are gonna be the same size regardless of what gets built there, whether it be 4 single family homes or a supertall.

The critics just like to throw stones at it. No one likes to talk about what was there before.

If the put a casino there, the money the city and state will get will be through the roof. But try putting one there without the subway.

I really want to see what Related's casino proposal looks like, and how it relates to the skyline...


https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/149...et50F3FMu73y8=



https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/p...&adppopup=true

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/149...qcT-X9Po--laA=

I hope the main tower dwarfs 30 HY

i hope they get a casino so they can get crackin.

a deck over the railyard ain’t gonna build itself.

so when are the casino awards supposed to be made?

after hochul and adams’ cayman and swiss bank accounts get a little fluffier?

They are supposed to be in the second phase of "questioning" right now. It looks like they are a couple of months (at least) behind the schedule that was given. There are a lot of issues that have to be worked out before applications can even be considered for a license, including the ULURP approvals process, which itself can take 6 to 7 months. It's the convoluted way the state has the process set up. There is opposition at every corner to a proposed casino (there is opposition to everything, so no surprise).

But New Yorkers voted to allow casinos, it's not clear why the state needed to subject this to the whims of community boards, even if their voices are advisory only. You need strong, local politicians to stand up and say this is a win-win, and so far you haven't been seeing that for any of the city proposals. You need balls to get anything big done in the city. So this is taken longer, (palms are getting greasier), but some bids are being publicly shown. Related has chosen to keep its been out of the public eye.

But the certainty is that there are three casinos coming to the area. How it works itself out remains to be seen, but there will be some unhappy people. They'll get over it.

A good angle...



stevenoldak1

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...650aca4e_h.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3a510621_k.jpg

https://www.ft.com/content/96b069a9-...c-6409574809ef

Jeff Blau rejects ‘office is dead’ claims by betting billions on new towers


Joshua Chaffin
JULY 2 2023

^ alrighty then, lets get right to starting up the westside yards deck asap —
hopefully a casino award puts that over the top —


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/df...23a2f1e9e4.jpg

YES.... as much as they tried, this "Signature Tower" is ok and not very remarkable. The topping is off and the asymmetry of it is kind of goofy. The overall slant of the tower is pretty neat though. 30 HY is more like a "Print Tower" rather than cursive, thats for sure.

And for Phase II.... LESS GLASS!

When Related touted out their masterplan visions for HY they were emphatic that the buildings were going to be a mixture of façade textures, not just glass.... at a glance when you look at the HY development it ended up looking like a glass blob emanating out of midtown, blocking the glory (and their respective texture) of the ESB and the Chrysler Building from the west side.

^ The problem with 30 Hudson is that it’s surrounded by so many tall towers, each of which could dominate many skylines. The result is a tower that looks like it’s just sticking its head above water. That’s why I hope the casino tower is more ambitious in terms of height. Hudson Yards needs a signature tower that stamfs out from the others. Maybe Affirmation Tower will ne built. Maybe not. But the casino tower needs to be minimum 1,500 ft.

I think the problem is too many fat and mostly squarish towers...let's hope if HY gets the casino, the tower is both tall and shapely...I hope they eventually deck over the Javits center and build, if they don't move it...

The biggest problem with those towers is that they’re all in the same height range. From a distance, HY looks like a mountain. But those large floorplates are exactly what the city had in mind, and what companies are looking for.



This is where the casino tower can give us something different.

Good point.

30 HY is inundated by towers of not just similar blandness, and materials but not separated enough by height to more thoroughly appreciate its slanted profile. This monotony is how this complex fails as a "unified development."

To be fair to Related, they’ve only built half the complex, and can’t be responsible for surrounding developments like Manhattan West or the Spiral or even 3 Hudson (whenever it rises). But as the neighborhood is zoned for large towers, maybe they should have been more ambitious in terms of a signature tower.

Dying to know what Related has proposed here...


https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/160...3o61-v4yMKF1w=

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic..._medium=social

NYC’s Long-Awaited Rail Tunnel Set to Get Shovels in the Ground
-Tunnel under Hudson not expected to be completed until 2035
-Construction in Hudson Yards to start in coming weeks


By Skylar Woodhouse
August 10, 2023