AC starting YUL-SCL and resuming YYZ-GIG in NW25.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250220-acnw25sa

This is the 5th destination in South America for YUL, after CTG, BOG, LIM and GRU.

Last week, TK was denied extra-bilateral authority (the request was for the whole IATA 2025 summer season, no less) to Canada. They wanted to add 1x weekly to YYZ, and 2x weekly each to YVR and YUL. That's a 42% overall increase to the bilateral limit.

AC and TS objected. GTAA, ADM and YVR were for it, obviously.

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-25

The previous request to add 1x weekly service to YYZ was approved last summer (from May to Sept), and then subsequently extended for one month. This time though, I think TK was pushing it's luck, requesting it - and more - for the whole summer season coming up. If they want more landing rights, they should push for the bilateral agreement to be updated, and not use the extra-bilateral authority as a tool to do it.

Interesting and yeah seeking one extra weekly would probably have been fine but five extra weekly is just circumventing the bilateral - even if the bilateral itself sucks. They need to lobby the respective governments for more access.

Ugh I know there needs to be a formal system, but this bilateral restriction is so insane, such tight restrictions harken back to regulated era, most countries have moved way past that. I hate to be controversial or un-patriotic, but some things Canada does lately seem almost arrogant or not "traditional" Canadian openness. Even the US (at least not yet) doesn't stifle things as much as us. The fact that airlines have such a strong interest serving multiple cities in our country is a boost of confidence, and yet we have archaic muzzles to artificially lower traffic and connections. The powers-that-be seem hellbent on alienating us from every major market in one way or another. The fact that our government/PM mishandled situations with some of our most important partners (China, India, Turkey, Mexico, USA). I am not saying we need to roll over or get bullied, and the issues at play with each of these countries is different. But it seems we are not handling it how we should with anyone, and that is concerning. If we only fumbled with one big country, then it might be a misunderstanding. But when that many different countries each take offence to what you did, it is no longer a "you" problem... Having countries WANT to forge more connections, having their population WANT to visit, and giving love to multiple airports is great, some countries would kill for that kind of demand. We guard the gate so tight it's absurd.

Is YUL-SCL a brand new route, or did AC service it anytime before? This kind of add deserves a new release for sure, how did they not do one?? If it's a first time route pair for AC, they definitely should have. If it's a resumption of any kind, they wouldn't necessarily need to announce it. But a new add international addition, it's news release worthy 100%. Good for YUL, that's a great SA destination variety actually. And continuing the trend of adding international services to YUL that were previously YYZ territory. I wonder how close AC international traffic is at YYZ v. YUL. Not transborder, just international. I bet that gap is really narrowing.

Here's a weird change: VIRGIN ATLANTIC MODIFIES WESTJET CODESHARE PARTNERSHIP IN NS25

The change is that VS will add its code on WS flights from YYZ to a bunch of Canadian destinations. Yet the article says "Despite the airline’s press release issued yesterday (18FEB25) claimingthe expansion of codeshare partnership with WestJet, the airline’s new codeshare routes to/from Toronto will replace existing ones via Calgary (except Calgary – Toronto route). Previously reported on AeroRoutes on 10FEB25, Virgin is discontinuing placing VS-coded flights on WestJet’s Calgary – London Heathrow route from 30MAR25. In addition, 11 routes to/from Calgary will no longer carry VS-coded flight numbers from the same date. I guess they only want to promote YYZ and build it up, rather than encourage people to fly to YYC on WS. That's no shade, just seems a very direct move that they aren't deep in with WS, and not really interested in being a partner to somewhere like YYC. Virgin has always seemed odd to me, but nowadays more than ever. Their destination list is a weird combination of leisure sun routes and random international cities, and they have had a rocky destination history, ditching some very high profile international routes like NRT and HKG. As much as I admittedly lament losing them to YVR for these couple years, my opinion on them isn't personal, just based on what I see. Their big score though was the DL partnership, that really shifted their focus and opened up a massive connecting market. They used to focus on places like ORL and LAS (plus of course NYC and LAX, the majors). But now they are right in deep with DL, really an odd pairing.

Perhaps looking at it from another perspective.

The strength that Canada has is our rule of law. It is slower, but far better, to run by the rules and change them for everyone with due consideration of what the impacts of a policy are.

The Huawei executive was the result of honoring our extradition treaty. It was the US that made the mess, and China didn’t like it, but allowing the courts to function and following the rule of law is the right outcome. Yes we were stuck in the middle. No that wasn’t fair. Rule of law is the right outcome.

The India issues are similar. If we want fairness we can’t just use power instead of due process. That’s hard when dealing with people that want to use leverage.

Gary Kasparov said that “in chess the rules are fixed, and the results are surprising.” Known rules - not changing rules to effect a result - is what should set us apart.

Open skies are more modern than bilaterals, but if the agreement is what is in place it is what should be administered. A small temporary adjustment that stays within the intent of the bilateral is one thing. Approving significant extra-bilateral flights is not a substitute for the reasons for the bilateral or a possible need to negotiate a new agreement.

Nothing insane about it. Let's not forget that it's only a handful of countries that want more access to Canada.

U.A.E, Ethiopia, Turkey and Qatar are the main ones. That's only 4 countries.

The rest, to my knowledge, are just fine with the bilateral agreements. Qatar just recently got access to YYZ. So they're pretty happy about that.

Canada has open skies (or its de-facto equivalent) with the US, the EU, UK, India, Brazil, S. Korea, Australia, NZ, and countless other nations in Latin America and the Caribbean. Not to mention all the expanded agreements of late (including with the 4 countries in question!). There is nothing archaic about it. Bilateral air agreements are more than just about landing rights.

YUL-SCL is a brand new route.

Makes total sense. They want to push ppl to fly their own metal on the upcoming LHR-YYZ, hence the end of codesharing on LHR-YYC. Why would they help WS fill their flights out of LHR, and do themselves a disservice at the same time? Considering their poor performance to Canada in the past, they want to make sure their new YYZ route works.

Rumor has it AC has canceled its plans to reactivate the 767s.

Also, TLV resumption from YYZ and YUL has been delayed and reduced.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...-israel.html#/

There is much more than that. On the Pacific side: Taiwan, Hong Kong, and of course, China.

To my knowledge, Cathay or EVA Air aren’t begging for more Canada flights.

As for China, very few countries, if any, have open skies with them.

HX wanted daily YVR and YYZ back in 2018, but secondary airline for each country only granted 10x weekly
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-111
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/let-a-51-2018
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-195

BR wants to double their service to both YVR and YYZ, CI wants access to YYZ, JX wants daily to YVR. Not sure if BR and CI made their request official, but JX did. Rumor is that bilateral talk with Taiwan is ongoing due to the JX request.

Not listed but what is the current agreement with Japan ? I'm kind of curious because it seems like AC is adding more flights to Japan, especially with the recent launch of YYZ-KIX and hopes to have flights to NGO and CTS.

Also what is the likelihood of AC having more flights out of HND.

If a countries primary goal is to Connect Canadians to another Country, AC and AT protest it and it gets stalled.
Taiwain, Hong Kong, Turkey, UAE and Qatar all fall into this - that is what Canada has always pushed back against to protect its domestic carriers at the expense we get higher prices and most airports get worse service.

This was true prior to Covid and not sure where things stand now, but there were many days there were more Canadians using the Seattle flights to the Indian subcontinant than from Vancouver. Things have likley changed heavily now but the point remains.

But people really need to get why these rules exist, protect Air Canada's margins and prices out of Canada. WestJet and Porter have always wanted more of those flights as they will just connect them domestically and to the USA.

These rules exist because of treaties. The treats are usually fair. Turkey and Canada agree to a certain number of flights or speats per week with the same rights given to Canadian airlines vrs airlines from Turkey.

There are some countries where we have open skies. The European Union and the US are two good examples. Canada put no limits on EU airlines opening new flights to Canada while the EU puts no limits on Canadian airlines doing the same to the EU.

It would be foolish for Canada to open up access for airlines from Turkey without Turkey doing the same for Canada.

It would be foolish of Canada to open up access even if Turkey did the same. Canada is a huge net exporter of air services with low costs and a huge network so they are able to steal a lot of long haul passengers. Meanwhile Canada isn't going to get any transit passengers.

Turkey, UAE and Hong Kong would have zero issues with open skies with Canada. They would all give up more access because they are connecting cities. Canada isn't trying to grow here since there isn't a push from Air Canada.

Much of our treaties and restrictions come from lobbying from our airline industry, which is dominated by AC. there is a reason once AC and EK got close magically UAE had more landing rights in Canada after 10 years of nothing. Turkey would love open skies with Canada, the next day 5 cities would have flights to Istanbul on TK. AC can fly there today and doesn't (Heck they pulled out) So government is in no hurry.
Our airline rules are dominated by corporate lobbying.

Canadian North have agreed to sell themselves to Exchange Income Corporation (EIC) for $195 million + $10 million worth of EIC shares. The YUL-YVP route is not part of the sale, which means I assume that route will transfer to ex-sister company Air Inuit.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ex...220100433.html

Am I crazy or did I just notice that Westjet is starting YUL-CUN/PUJ/POP/MBJ/VRA this summer.
Is this a Sunwing takeover?

Yeah, Sunwing airlines is being intagrated into WS mainline in May. I think they also doing RIH from YUL too.

So what is in it for Canada?

If TK flies an extra say 1,000 passangers a day between Canada and middle east/east asia. Air Canada perhaps has one or two fewer widebodies in its fleet (and adjusts staffing levels) and maybe Air France or Lufthansa drops one or two flights into Canada to compensate.

Is Canada better off reducing opportunities for business and ties with the EU so we can funnel more people through Turkey, China and UAE? Is our trade and defense alliance with Turkey, China and UAE more important to us than the EU?

There is a reason why we have open skies with some countries and not others.

Yeah and YUL is even going to be a WS base believe it or not.

Musqueam First Nation, Vancouver Airport sign historic land lease revenue sharing agreement

This is pretty historic for advancing reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples in Canada. YVR sits on Sea Island in the Fraser River, traditional Musqueam territory. Musqueam will receive from the federal government a portion of the lease money the government collects from YVR.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ease-1.7467233

We get better options and better prices for flights to fastest growing areas we do.

Everyone in Canada is complaining about Trump, than Canada wants more Trump style policies. Canada is known for having the most restrictive air travel in the rich world. Go to any conference in Aviation, its a talking point for any discussion.

We lose nothing doing this, and the EU is not impacted. Yes, there is reasons we have open skies with some countries and not other, most of it over last 20 years is over corporate lobbying.

When did Canada get better access to the UAE, when AC and EK started a partnership. In the meantime the average Canadian pays more, and is part of the reason Canadians have the highest airfare in the rich world on a per mile basis. I want Canadians to pay less. You want Canadians to keep paying worlds highest prices.

We have terrible policy in aviation, and its slowly moving towards what the rest of the rich world does - just slowly. All in a time when we should be doing whatever do find better ways to trade with the world - and aviation is a massive component to that.

80%+ of the O&D to/from Canada is to markets that have open skies agreements with Canada.

International ticket prices, for the most part, are on par with other countries.

Domestic prices are high. The reason they are high has nothing to do with bilateral agreements between countries. It has to do with other factors, such as low population density, high flight durations, and the federal government's policy to charge rent to airport operators. These are the real issues. These are the real reasons domestic prices are high in Canada. This is why it's cheaper to fly from YUL to Europe than it is to fly from YUL to Vancouver.

Having open skies with Turkey, the U.A.E or Hong Kong won't change a thing.

Online sources put numbers for the Musqueam Band around 1,650. Wouldn’t it have been nice if those millions had been used to benefit all Canadians.

Look at the big picture. The federal government decades ago took unceded land from the Musqueam Peoples without their consent and built an airport on their land. This is decades of long overdue compensation to Indigenous Peoples for the use of their land. This is what reconciliation is. Not only righting the wrongs of the past but also being partners in the future.

Well said. :cheers:

Reconciliation? For a select few, I guess. As I mentioned the stated number of the Musqueam band is about 1,500. That makes them about .0003% of BC’s population (won’t even bother to figure out what it is if Canada’s) who have been chosen to get millions of dollars paid out by a federal asset. Add that to other federal assets handed over to them by Trudeau and Co and to the other MST nations. Nice work if you can get it. Of course the other bands in BC are SOL but then, they’re not conveniently located in Liberal-held urban ridings.

The Musqueam ancestors use to be the custodians of the land the airport sits on. That is it. Other communities have claims on other lands.

Halifax Stanfield updated their route map:

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/wp-conte...5-2025-ENG.png

Looks like Etihad are upgauging YYZ to A380 in June.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...98717949152980

I haven't been checking the scheds for a few weeks, and myself just noticed today before coming on the forum. I noticed YYZ-CUN flights exploded, I thought I made an error in my search because the summer schedule went it went from like 4x per week to 16x per week! And then as I went through all the Caribbean destinations one by one, many had substantial increases. After double checking my CUN numbers, I knew this had to be a Sunwing integration thing. WS has been shrinking YYZ, so a massive uptick was impossible, it's all Sunwing. Funnily enough, Aeroroutes posted a WS update but only mentioned transborder cuts, nothing on the addition of all the sun destinations. Must've come out later, or maybe was just missed?

WESTJET NS25 SELECTED US FREQUENCY CHANGES – 23FEB25
Written By Jim Liu
Published at 0500GMT 25FEB25

WestJet in recent weeks modified operational frequencies on selected US routes for Northern summer 2025 season. Based on schedule listing comparison 15DEC24 vs 23FEB25, selected changes include:

Calgary – Orange County eff 27APR25 Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly (Remains an overall increase from 3 weekly in NS24)
Toronto – Fort Lauderdale eff 27APR25 Reduce from 7 to 6 weekly (5 weekly 26MAY25 – 01SEP25, identical to most of NS24. This route was scheduled 6 weekly in July/August 2025)
Toronto – Las Vegas eff 27APR25 Reduce from 6-7 weekly to 5 weekly (This route was served up to 11 weekly during peak season in NS24)
Toronto – Los Angeles eff 16MAY25 Seasonal service reduces from 7 to 6 weekly
Winnipeg – Los Angeles eff 27APR25 Reduce from 3 to 2 weekly

Despite these changes, selected routes are seeing frequency increase compared to peak season in summer 2024 season. Based on calendar week 29 comparison, WestJet in 2024 (14-20JUL24) operated 429 weekly flights (on one-way basis) from Canada to US. This is expected to grow to 456 weekly in 2025 (13-19JUL25), as of 23FEB25.

SNA being cut speaks volumes to me, it was slashed so quick, even with YVR service being cut entirely, and theoretically would help feed YYC. But doesn't seem so... WS also cut minor amounts of domestic service, namely YYZ-YEG down to 35x weekly, loss of 5-6 weekly. I think YYZ-YYC down by 1 or 2 weekly as well. But nothing drastic, the majority of these sun adds are using WG planes, naturally. With these latest changes, the WS's biggest airport operations change considerably from what was projected before. YYZ will be just 7 flights behind YEG this summer (389 vs. 396), compared to at least 30 weekly flights behind before this update. And although YYZ is 7 flights behind YEG, their capacity is noticeably larger because it's all mainline, YEG is mainline/Encore mix. YVR didn't change at all, it didn't gain nor lose, the WG acquisition was inconsequential here for summer. it seems. And YVR's flight frequency (509 weekly) is still far ahead of both YEG (396 weekly) and YYZ's (389 weekly), who are neck and neck.

But this isn't a surprise at all, it was no secret that with WS absorbing WG, they would add significant flights from YYZ again. It isn't the same thing as WS growing in YEG or YVR, where they are adding new flights and destinations, not just swallowing a carrier and assuming their flights, that's not an overall add. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a net loss to YYZ compared to the peak of when WS and WG operated their own flights.

@Coldrsx, is that an old photo of YYC?

That's Blatchford Edmonton City Centre Airport.

Must be late 60, AGT Tower is up but City Centre Towers look like they are just going up.

Cool! I've only ever been to Edmonton once.

In other news, Canada and Ghana have reached a first ever bilateral air agreement: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...835979021.html

- The right for Canada and Ghana to designate multiple airlines to operate scheduled air services between the two countries.
- The right for those airlines to serve any points in the two countries.
- A capacity of 14 weekly passenger flights and 10 weekly all-cargo flights for the airlines of each country.

Would AC ever serve YYZ or YUL-ACC? Considering it has worked well for both DL and UA.

Well, ACC is a destination AC is looking at according to investor day presentation, along with DSS, ABJ, and LOS. But unlike YUL-DSS, ACC is likely too far for the XLR though.

Maybe from YYZ. YUL to an English-speaking African country wouldn't make any sense.

WS appears to be scaling back its Transborder schedule one month at a time. They first did March, now this week they did April.

Select flights to LAS, LAX, every Florida destination, JFK, DTW were cut. The only route that saw an overall frequency change was YLW-SEA which was slashed to just 3x weekly from daily.

Additionally during peak summer from June 26-August 30, YYC-KEF has been increased to 6x weekly.

Didn’t Flair just reduce a number of US routes too?

For the second time in as many weeks, Canada has a new bilateral air agreement with an African nation. This time, it's with Senegal and the main highlights are pretty much identical to Ghana:

- The right for airlines of either country to operate direct flights to any destination in the other country's territory.
- A capacity allowance of 14 weekly passenger flights and 10 weekly all-cargo flights for the airlines of each country.
- Significant operating flexibility for all-cargo services.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...848113630.html

YHZ's January 2025 pax stats:

Sector / 2019 / 2024 / 2025 / % Change vs 24 / vs 19
Dom: 214,519 / 169,983 / 187,519 / +10.3% / -12.6%
TB: 19,732 / 15,891 / 18,234 / +14.7% / -7.6%
Int'l: 14,292 / 31,423 / 28,344 / -9.8% / +98.3%
TTL: 248,543 / 217,297 / 234,097 / +7.7% / -5.8%

YEG January 2025 pax stats:

Domestic 404,950 / +12.4%
Transborder 73,768 / +18.2%
International 79,605 / +3.7%
Terminal Total: 558,323 / +11.8%

FBOs: 67,662 / +24.5%

YUL in January 2025, actually saw a small drop in pax count.

Dom: 436,702 / +0.6%
TB: 363,141 / -3.1%
Int'l: 865,563 / +0.1%
TTL: 1,665,406 / -0.5%

So unlike ACC, this could be something launched from YUL instead of YYZ.

And with XLR instead of 787.

Precisely.

It’s starting. Transborder numbers will be significantly down at all 4 major hubs this year. By the end of the year, if Trump keeps up his rhetoric, you will see US carriers pulling out of some Canadian routes. AC, WS and PD will do the same.

This is just the beginning.

While we will likely see big drops in transborder numbers with less business being done and leisure travelers staying away, the Montreal number really isn't about Trump. The bookings for January were mostly going to be done well before Trump really went off and the heavy Tariff talk. Other airports did fine or had big increases in January.

This is probably just a natural decline, especially with Ottawa having big USA flights in winter 2025 compared to other years with the expansion of Porter. Ottawa is probably just doing the local flights and will cause some declines in Montreal.

YYC Transborder was also down in January too.

January 2025
Domestic: 877,565 +2.6%
Transborder: 259,873 -2.3%
International: 212,275 +6.2%

January / YTD: 1,349,713 +2.2%