Originally Posted by zahav (Post 10189302)

Thanks Dominion, very thorough and informative! For some reason I love aircraft rotation schedules, it's like a puzzle fitting it all together. A couple years ago I tried to do it for AC's widebody fleet out of YVR, just based on arrival and departure times and matching aircraft that seemed to make sense, but I have no idea if it was even remotely correct. It was all fun until I couldn't get the flights to balance and I had a spare plane here, and a missing plane there, and the equipment didn't line up, so I gave up lol. But was a fun attempt

Does anyone know if AC's YVR-LHR is one of the 450-seat sardine can 777s? Or is just the regular 400 seat? The 450-seater seems way too intense for me, I am not super tall or large even, but I wouldn't want to be that squished in basic economy for that long. I once was on it (not knowingly) from YYZ to YVR, and that was bad enough, but to London? No thanks

This sounds brutal for locals:

'Go home': Overtourism sparks backlash in Spain

Madrid (AFP) – Anti-tourism movements are multiplying in Spain, the world's second most visited country, prompting authorities to try and reconcile the interests of locals and the lucrative sector.

Issued on: 16/04/2024 - 11:45
Modified: 16/04/2024 - 16:46
3 min

Rallying under the slogan "The Canaries have a limit", a collective of groups on the archipelago off northwest Africa are planning a slew of protests on Saturday.

The Canaries are known for volcanic landscapes and year-round sunshine and attracts millions of visitors from all over the world.

Groups there want authorities to halt work on two new hotels on Tenerife, the largest and most developed of the archipelago's seven islands.

They are also demanding that locals be given a greater say in the face of what they consider uncontrolled development which is harming the environment.

Several members of the collective "Canaries Sold Out" also began an "indefinite" hunger strike last week to put pressure of the authorities.

"Our islands are a treasure that must be defended," the collective said.

The Canaries received 16 million visitors last year, more than seven times its population of around 2.2 million people.

This is an unsustainable level given the archipelago's limited resources, Victor Martin, a spokesman for the collective told a recent press briefing, calling it a "suicidal growth model".

'Social revulsion'

Similar anti-tourism movements have sprung up elsewhere in Spain and are active on social media.

In the southern port of Malaga on the Costa del Sol, a centre of Spain's decades-old "soy y playa" or "sun and beach" tourism model, stickers with unfriendly slogans such as "This used to be my home" and "Go home" have appeared on the walls and doors of tourist accommodations.

A couple uses a selfie stick to take a picture next to a banner warning tourists about a drought alert in Catalonia
A couple uses a selfie stick to take a picture next to a banner warning tourists about a drought alert in Catalonia © PAU BARRENA / AFP
In Barcelona and the Balearic Islands, activists have put up fake signs at the entrances to some popular beaches warning in English of the risk of "falling rocks" or "dangerous jellyfish".

Locals complain a rise in accommodation listings on short-term rental platforms such as Airbnb have worsened a housing shortage and caused rents to soar, especially in town centres.

The influx of tourists also adds to noise and environmental pollution and taxes resources such as water, they add.

In the northeastern region of Catalonia, which declared a drought emergency in February, anger is growing over the pressure exerted on depleted water reserves by hotels on the Costa Brava.

"Our concern is to continue to grow tourism in Spain so that it is sustainable and does not generate social revulsion," the vice president of tourism association Exceltur, Jose Luis Zoreda, told a news conference on Tuesday when asked about the protest movements.

The group said it expects Spain's tourism sector will post record revenues of 202.65 billion euros ($215.4 billion) this year.

Loudspeaker ban

Before the Covid-19 pandemic brought the global travel industry to its knees in 2020, protest movements against overtourism had already emerged in Spain, especially in Barcelona.

Now that pandemic travel restrictions have been lifted, tourism is back with a vengeance -- Spain welcomed a record 85.1 million foreign visitors last year.

In response, several cities have taken measures to try to limit overcrowding.

The northern seaside city of San Sebastian last month limited the size of tourist groups in the centre to 25 people and banned the use of loudspeakers during guided tours.

The southern city of Seville is mulling charging non-residents a fee to enter its landmark Plaza de Espana while Barcelona had removed a bus route popular with tourists from Google Maps to try to make more room for locals.

Housing Minister Isabel Rodriguez said over the weekend that "action needs to be taken to limit the number of tourist flats" but stressed the government is "aware of the importance of the tourist sector", which accounts for 12.8 percent of Spain's economic activity.


I have always heard stories of the Spanish beach resorts just being incredibly intense with the sheer amount of foreign holidaymakers (Benidorm basically elicits a "cringe" response from people in the UK even as a tacky, entirely British enclave in a foreign country). I went to Spain in 2007. Went to San Sebastian, and it was not over run with tourists. Went to Sevilla, Grenada, no problem. Even Madrid and Barcelona were not unbearable with tourists the way I experienced in Rome or Paris, for instance. But then we went to Mallorca and omg, that was an experience. Basically it is a colony of Northern Europe, with English, Dutch, and German language everywhere. And there were tons of places serving English, Dutch, and German food, sometimes alongside "local food", who knows how authentic they were for any cuisine. I don't know why, but for some reason it felt strange to see how much they cater to the tourist hordes. I am by no means a snob or some obnoxious travel purist, but the amount of places serving mostly German or Dutch food was shocking! I have always loved exploring local flavour, you usually find so many delicious things that you wouldn't get back home. I understand McDonalds being everywhere because it is truly international, it really isn't "American" food being served, it's just an international food offering that doesn't vary that much between countries. So I wasn't aghast at seeing them anywhere, and I admit I went there sometimes. But the amount of restaurants serving things like schnitzel, sauerkraut or currywurst was so weird. Like, you're on vacation, why are you eating that in Spain?! Now I do understand that some Europeans spend a significant amount of time there (ie. the entire fall/winter), rather than just a 7-day all inclusive or whatever. So maybe being there for months at a time they want a taste of home, but the amount of places doing it implied it was for more than just snowbirds. Sorry rant over, I just thought it was odd how obvious the origin-countries' culture was in a foreign country. I don't think I had any proper or good Spanish food while there (I'm sure if I had explored further out I could have found some great ones, but staying more or less in the tourist zone was so trippy, I could only imagine as a local).

The article doesn't mention Madrid, and from a few articles they all seem to focus on the beach destinations in the south, as well as Barcelon, the Balearic Islands (ie. Mallorca, Ibiza), and the Canary Islands. Air Canada is launching their new YUL-MAD service, hopefully Madrid isn't that bad for tourist overrun, and doesn't result in actual policies restricting flights/visitors. Maybe the Spanish government would be more willing to keep long haul frequencies and flights and instead target reductions on shorter haul intra-Europe flights, since it isn't North Americans, Africans, or Asians that are the main tourist segment.

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 10189302)

Thanks Dominion, very thorough and informative! For some reason I love aircraft rotation schedules, it's like a puzzle fitting it all together. A couple years ago I tried to do it for AC's widebody fleet out of YVR, just based on arrival and departure times and matching aircraft that seemed to make sense, but I have no idea if it was even remotely correct. It was all fun until I couldn't get the flights to balance and I had a spare plane here, and a missing plane there, and the equipment didn't line up, so I gave up lol. But was a fun attempt

Does anyone know if AC's YVR-LHR is one of the 450-seat sardine can 777s? Or is just the regular 400 seat? The 450-seater seems way too intense for me, I am not super tall or large even, but I wouldn't want to be that squished in basic economy for that long. I once was on it (not knowingly) from YYZ to YVR, and that was bad enough, but to London? No thanks

This sounds brutal for locals:

'Go home': Overtourism sparks backlash in Spain

Madrid (AFP) – Anti-tourism movements are multiplying in Spain, the world's second most visited country, prompting authorities to try and reconcile the interests of locals and the lucrative sector.

Issued on: 16/04/2024 - 11:45
Modified: 16/04/2024 - 16:46
3 min

Rallying under the slogan "The Canaries have a limit", a collective of groups on the archipelago off northwest Africa are planning a slew of protests on Saturday.

The Canaries are known for volcanic landscapes and year-round sunshine and attracts millions of visitors from all over the world.

Groups there want authorities to halt work on two new hotels on Tenerife, the largest and most developed of the archipelago's seven islands.

They are also demanding that locals be given a greater say in the face of what they consider uncontrolled development which is harming the environment.

Several members of the collective "Canaries Sold Out" also began an "indefinite" hunger strike last week to put pressure of the authorities.

"Our islands are a treasure that must be defended," the collective said.

The Canaries received 16 million visitors last year, more than seven times its population of around 2.2 million people.

This is an unsustainable level given the archipelago's limited resources, Victor Martin, a spokesman for the collective told a recent press briefing, calling it a "suicidal growth model".

'Social revulsion'

Similar anti-tourism movements have sprung up elsewhere in Spain and are active on social media.

In the southern port of Malaga on the Costa del Sol, a centre of Spain's decades-old "soy y playa" or "sun and beach" tourism model, stickers with unfriendly slogans such as "This used to be my home" and "Go home" have appeared on the walls and doors of tourist accommodations.

A couple uses a selfie stick to take a picture next to a banner warning tourists about a drought alert in Catalonia
A couple uses a selfie stick to take a picture next to a banner warning tourists about a drought alert in Catalonia © PAU BARRENA / AFP
In Barcelona and the Balearic Islands, activists have put up fake signs at the entrances to some popular beaches warning in English of the risk of "falling rocks" or "dangerous jellyfish".

Locals complain a rise in accommodation listings on short-term rental platforms such as Airbnb have worsened a housing shortage and caused rents to soar, especially in town centres.

The influx of tourists also adds to noise and environmental pollution and taxes resources such as water, they add.

In the northeastern region of Catalonia, which declared a drought emergency in February, anger is growing over the pressure exerted on depleted water reserves by hotels on the Costa Brava.

"Our concern is to continue to grow tourism in Spain so that it is sustainable and does not generate social revulsion," the vice president of tourism association Exceltur, Jose Luis Zoreda, told a news conference on Tuesday when asked about the protest movements.

The group said it expects Spain's tourism sector will post record revenues of 202.65 billion euros ($215.4 billion) this year.

Loudspeaker ban

Before the Covid-19 pandemic brought the global travel industry to its knees in 2020, protest movements against overtourism had already emerged in Spain, especially in Barcelona.

Now that pandemic travel restrictions have been lifted, tourism is back with a vengeance -- Spain welcomed a record 85.1 million foreign visitors last year.

In response, several cities have taken measures to try to limit overcrowding.

The northern seaside city of San Sebastian last month limited the size of tourist groups in the centre to 25 people and banned the use of loudspeakers during guided tours.

The southern city of Seville is mulling charging non-residents a fee to enter its landmark Plaza de Espana while Barcelona had removed a bus route popular with tourists from Google Maps to try to make more room for locals.

Housing Minister Isabel Rodriguez said over the weekend that "action needs to be taken to limit the number of tourist flats" but stressed the government is "aware of the importance of the tourist sector", which accounts for 12.8 percent of Spain's economic activity.


I have always heard stories of the Spanish beach resorts just being incredibly intense with the sheer amount of foreign holidaymakers (Benidorm basically elicits a "cringe" response from people in the UK even as a tacky, entirely British enclave in a foreign country). I went to Spain in 2007. Went to San Sebastian, and it was not over run with tourists. Went to Sevilla, Grenada, no problem. Even Madrid and Barcelona were not unbearable with tourists the way I experienced in Rome or Paris, for instance. But then we went to Mallorca and omg, that was an experience. Basically it is a colony of Northern Europe, with English, Dutch, and German language everywhere. And there were tons of places serving English, Dutch, and German food, sometimes alongside "local food", who knows how authentic they were for any cuisine. I don't know why, but for some reason it felt strange to see how much they cater to the tourist hordes. I am by no means a snob or some obnoxious travel purist, but the amount of places serving mostly German or Dutch food was shocking! I have always loved exploring local flavour, you usually find so many delicious things that you wouldn't get back home. I understand McDonalds being everywhere because it is truly international, it really isn't "American" food being served, it's just an international food offering that doesn't vary that much between countries. So I wasn't aghast at seeing them anywhere, and I admit I went there sometimes. But the amount of restaurants serving things like schnitzel, sauerkraut or currywurst was so weird. Like, you're on vacation, why are you eating that in Spain?! Now I do understand that some Europeans spend a significant amount of time there (ie. the entire fall/winter), rather than just a 7-day all inclusive or whatever. So maybe being there for months at a time they want a taste of home, but the amount of places doing it implied it was for more than just snowbirds. Sorry rant over, I just thought it was odd how obvious the origin-countries' culture was in a foreign country. I don't think I had any proper or good Spanish food while there (I'm sure if I had explored further out I could have found some great ones, but staying more or less in the tourist zone was so trippy, I could only imagine as a local).

The article doesn't mention Madrid, and from a few articles they all seem to focus on the beach destinations in the south, as well as Barcelon, the Balearic Islands (ie. Mallorca, Ibiza), and the Canary Islands. Air Canada is launching their new YUL-MAD service, hopefully Madrid isn't that bad for tourist overrun, and doesn't result in actual policies restricting flights/visitors. Maybe the Spanish government would be more willing to keep long haul frequencies and flights and instead target reductions on shorter haul intra-Europe flights, since it isn't North Americans, Africans, or Asians that are the main tourist segment.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 10189687)

I haven't been anywhere in Europe during the summer for a number of years now. I can't imagine what the crowds must be like.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 10189401)

I spent five weeks in Andalucia this winter. I was struck by the heavy crowds in Malaga (in what I thought of as off season). Ronda was also packed. Since I get around by local public transit, I noticed how often buses were packed with (mostly older) foreigners to the point that locals, including mothers with strollers, etc, were left behind by packed buses. I could see that sort of thing breeding resentment. There were also many stories of Spaniards being priced out of the housing market and being obliged to move out to villages within commuting distance of the city.

Since the economy, especially in Andalucia and the Canaries, is so heavily dependent on tourism, I'm not sure what the remedy could be, but it is becoming less and less pleasant to visit an increasing number of European destinations. You expect crowds in London and Paris, but Lisbon, Barcelona, Venice, Dubrovnik, etc, etc are all being crushed under the weight of visitors, istm.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 10189687)

I haven't been anywhere in Europe during the summer for a number of years now. I can't imagine what the crowds must be like.

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 10190664)

Ultimately, I suspect many of these places are going to crank up taxes on the visitors.

Venice is a tourist attraction, not a city anymore.

Does one want fewer, but more wealthy visitors who are spending more dollars/euros, or the masses who are there to get drunk in the sun as cheaply as possible?

A lot of these places aren't Caribbean-level countries lacking for other options for their economies. Spain and Italy are developed countries. Squeezing the Limeys for a few quid more to attempt to keep the most obnoxious ones out is a strategy.

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 10190649)

@thenoflyzone, YQB have finally published their 2023 pax numbers.

1,688,736 passengers in 2023, 43.8% more than in 2022.

Traffic recovered to 94% of 2019.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...860079254.html

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 10190862)

Thanks. I had my eye on that annual meeting for a few days now. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_Canada#2023

Getting close to YYJ's numbers. Eventually they will claim 11th spot. Might take another couple of years though. It would help if AF goes year round, like at YOW.

They're not expecting much growth this year. No doubt due to AC pulling out of their winter sun routes. Wouldn't hurt if those came back as well.

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 10193730)

United has loaded SFO-YUL seasonally starting July 1st.

Originally Posted by hemustbeaboss (Post 10193845)

The assumption internally is due to crew / aircraft shortages on AC’s end, thus they are relying on UA to help with feed to the Canadian hubs until AC can get more aircraft.