Pete Wilson founded the CCDC. I think regardless of his politics, he is foremost responsible for what we have downtown today.

^ I have to agree, wholeheartedly. Wilson, it seems, has been the only person who "gets it" and knew how to run this city and run it well. I worry about that statue being desecrated by ultra-radical pro-illegal immigration figures like Enrique Morones (who went on record in the San Diego Union-Tribune as saying he would).

he was also a former mayor of SD

He was very conservative and both latino and gay groups are protesting the statue for various stances he took on issues when he was in power.

While he did steer deveopment downtown, I feel he discouraged diversity and added to the overall conservatism that has resulted in a cultural void in the arts and civic spaces when compared to other urban areas, just my opinion though

I was just DT and noticed that Little Italy projects Aperature and Current are almost complete.

If only Little Italy could get Embassy 1414 next...

Plus, today it is raining for the first time in exactly four months to the day.

A few updates on this cloudy cool summer weekend. I walked by the costa verde highrise going up around UTC. Didn't make it to La Jolla Commons but the highrise (behind the 8 story office building) has been peeking up above ground level. The smaller midrise looks to have substantial interior work going on.

Anyway, here are a few of Costa Verde:

This first one is from Nobel looking west. It has a small but noticeable impact on the skyline:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1373/...a221223a_o.jpg

This is looking into the Costa Verde Apartments towards the new highrise:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1273/...9611c733_o.jpg

Work seems nearly done on the structure itself:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1304/...08c4eb2a_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1231/...7da387f6_o.jpg

I'm assuming it's going to look just like its boring neighboor (they're connected on the ground level):
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1367/...c8137b01_o.jpg

interesting op-ed piece:


Ugly, metal warehouse on the bay? I think not!

UNION-TRIBUNE
August 26, 2007

Cargo containers, those long steel boxes designed to be loaded on ships and freight trains, enjoy a curious popularity in some quarters.

A lot of folks in the backcountry like to use them as storage sheds – big, ugly storage sheds. But neighbors complained so much about these hulking metal eyesores that a law was passed banishing them from front yards.

In San Diego, we think of the waterfront as our front yard. So it came as something of a shock this month when the Port Commission decided that Broadway Pier would be the perfect place to plop down the equivalent of a humongous cargo container.

In fairness to Port officials, none of them use the term “humongous cargo container.” They prefer “pre-engineered metal building.” Same thing, I say.

The metal structure they have in mind would be about 40 feet high, 70 feet wide and 400 feet long. It would serve as a second cruise ship terminal, a place for seafaring tourists to disembark with bulging wallets and return, hours later, with bulging shopping bags.



AdvertisementPort commissioners approved the idea knowing little more about the structure than what you now do. There are no designs, just a sketch of what looks like a sinister warehouse, the sort where hostages are held in kung fu movies.
Bear in mind, this site is at the foot of downtown, with our sparkling bay as its backdrop.

Compounding the indignity, the Port says this tin monstrosity will be a permanent addition to the waterfront, not, as earlier claimed, a temporary structure to be torn down once the B Street terminal is remodeled.

Then there's this: Whenever a cruise ship is in port, which at a minimum means every weekend from September to May, the pier would be closed to the public for security purposes. So expectations that Broadway Pier would soon provide downtown some much-needed open space have been dashed.

And wait, it gets even better: Construction must begin in January. So a Miami architect is racing against the clock to design in months something that San Diegans will have to live with for decades.

The architect does not have a big budget. But Rita Vandergaw, the Port's director of marketing, said that an awful lot can be done with paint and colored lighting.

“Your imagination can run wild with this,” Vandergaw said to me, inviting trouble.

Before that happens, I should point out that others have been imagining the future of the waterfront for many years, and at no point did their imaginings include this pre-engineered metal building.

Rather, they imagined Broadway Pier as a public open space with a platform for viewing San Diego Bay and for peering down Broadway into the heart of the city.

The thinking was that if the Padres ever won the World Series, the victory parade would proceed down a skyscraper-lined Broadway and finish up at the pier, where adoring fans would cheer the world champions in a public plaza.

Port officials evidently imagine that parade a little differently: a long line of convertibles being driven to a chop shop.

Now, normally I avoid reading any document with the word “visionary” in its title.

But the best ideas for Broadway Pier are spelled out in the North Embarcadero Visionary Plan, a $228 million waterfront master plan that the city and the Port have approved already.

Apparently when the Port gave its approval, its fingers were crossed.

Included is a conceptual design for Broadway Pier that has been around for about five years. It shows a golden pier where people stroll among decorative silver towers, some of which are topped with tall silver plumes like you might see on dancers in a floor show at the Copacabana.

It's not my cup of tea, but neither is a patchwork of garage doors, no matter how colorfully they are painted.

Vandergaw and I looked at the conceptual design together.

“It was just an illustration,” she explained. “People believe that that was what was promised, but it's just an illustration.”

Port communications director Irene McCormack looked at the drawing and, in the scolding tone that a dog owner uses to admonish a pet, said, “Bad drawing.”

I'm glad we can keep a sense of humor through what seems to be another example of shoddy planning in San Diego.

It's in that spirit that I've taken up Vandergaw on her offer and let my imagination run wild:

I see a metal warehouse on Broadway Pier. I see 3-foot-high letters painted on both sides. I see these words: “We consider this building worthy of San Diego Bay,” followed by the names of every port commissioner who voted for it.

Build it my way, and I see it coming down within a couple of years.

Can't wait to see some renderings of this beauty...


:runaway:

I recommend that the Port District look at a new pier to birth a 3rd cruise ship. The B St Pier would handle the 1st two while a second, not Broadway, would handle the 3rd ship... and maybe 4th if there ever would be a fourth. Or, one of those mega yachts that have been talked about. The new pier could be directly opposite the County Administration Building!

Whatta Ya Think?

Other options could be along Shelter or Harbor Islands.... pulled up like they were parallel parking.

Misread the post, sorry.

Or check the CIVP take

http://www.caivp.org/waterfront_hi.wmv

Right on! They don't speak to it specifically, that I can tell, but the CAIDV site provides concurring remarks about expanding the workign waterfront. To me that says yes.

But with that said, I have doubts about the staying power, influence, or politcal power of this organization.

Btw, my passion is transportation and congestion relief... where does teh CAIDP stand on that? Additionally, is this group even famialiar with the proposal to bring high speed rail to San Diego... right to Santa Fe Depot? If that project moves forward it'll do more to downtown San Diego than what Horton Plaza did, the Trolley, or the convention center. Combined probably.

Your passion for HSR is appreciated, but not the solution. If you want a good read on public transportation, in the midst of the highway boom, read "The Great Society Subway". San Diego does not need HSR, it needs a subway system that connects the CBD to the core of the city (South of 8, West of 15)

Tell me, when the entire problem of San Diego's congestion is the North County Sprawl, why on earth should we spend an enourmous sum of money to ease their commute into the CBD? The Subway has created a TRUE boom in DC, simply because people chose to move closer to transportation that connected them to jobs. You don't bring transportation to sprawl.

I do not disagree with you at all about a San Diego subway. What I was alluding too was that the proposed California High Speed Rail system has a great ability to pop travellers from elsewhere in the state easily into San Diego... and particularly downtown San Diego. Although commuters from Escondido or UTC area destined to downtown would benefit too, because stations would be located in those places, those users weren't whom I was writing about. At least not todays commuters.

The California High Speed rail system is largely designed/planned for statewide travel... trips longer than 200 or 300 miles. Think of the French TGV or the German ICE or Japanese Shinkansen and trains getting up to 220 mph for long distances.

My support for high speed trains takes a cue from the observations that the state will have 60 million residents by 2050. There's no way in the world we can 1) build our way out of congestion by continuing to widen roadways, 2) reduce dependance on foreign oil, 3) effectively/effeciently expand airports adequately, or 4) effectively fight global warming and air pollution... without investment in other forms of transportation. And, assuming a fixed finite dollar investment in each mode... our dollars go further with high speed trains, pardon the pun. But note, I'd never recommend investing all those fixed dollars into one mode... it should be balanced among modes. And I think today is the day to begin greater investment in high speed trains because they do much more to alleviating congestion at our airports and regional/state highways.

About a subway... those are great for providing a separated right-of-way for trains. They enable uninterupted travel, higher speeds, greater capacity, and greater access to dense urban areas. Ideal areas are in downtown cores like here in downtown San Diego. If trains operated up to Hillcreast and along El Cajon or University out to I15 or SDSU, a separated alignment like a subway would be good there too. Offhand, I cannot imagine other areas in the region where there is enough density, traffic congestion and insufficient space at-grade as these areas mentioned... and would warrant the service.

btw, I just looked up that book and bought it off of Amazon.

Agree on all counts. The sad thing is, as you will find out from the book, in order to spear head projects as large as these, there has to be people in power that are willing to go head to head, for years mind you, with traffic engineers. On top of that, the political muscle to press on even as all the naysayers wish for their wider freeways. I hope that people with forsight come into power soon. As you said, one can't build themselves out of conjestion.

Your point is correct... I know this stuff pretty well.

^ A subway in SD would probably not occur until after a new airport and we know how much of a priority that is for the city now :(

I do agree that HSR would be good for commuting further distances, like to Oceanside, whereas a subway would do alot to connect the citiys' "uraban villages".

I love Balboa Park and think that having such a world class park right in the urban center of the city is wonderful and would be VERY opposed to cutting through it for transportation purposes, but it does make commuting to the Hillcrest-North Park or "mid-town" area difficult. Unlike alot of cities with a central downtown, we have the coast to our west and Balboa Park to our north making road options to uptown limited. I think it's idiotic that you can take a trolley out to La Mesa but can't even go up the hill to Hillcrest!?

As the uptown and Bankers Hill areas also continue to have alot of cool urban developments it would be nice if downtown were better connected and a subway would be awesome, but I'm afraid it's just wishful thinking now

SANDAG had issued an RFP about a year ago in summer of 2007 for a transit corridor study along 4th and 5th avenues, designed to implement a bus loop similar to the Super Loop as proposed in UTC. Route alternatives were also included in documents I saw relating to CCDC's C street realignment as conceived by SOM (whereby the potential uptown bus corridor would connect with C street). I would say its a possibility that we might see a branded bus route connecting uptown to downtown in the next 2-3 years (possibly sooner depending on its complexity), although it seems silly, given the present existence of current routes, that this type of plan couldnt be implemented without formal study (but I guess thats the political world we live in these days). I for one would be gracious to whoever has the financial guts to step up and start a private bus service loop from hillcrest to downtown on the weekends. A dedicated bus loop is the only way we'll have any type of frequent reliable service between the two given the cost of a street car and the public complain on loss of right of way. That being the case, its a fine solution in my opinion, assuming it has decent headways.

I think I know what you're referring to, however, I don't believe the RFP was for a bus loop. I believe it was for a traffic calming type plan for Hillcrest and with 4th and 5th having a bus only lane. A dedicated loop from downtown to Hillcrest is not needed, imo, as there is already a ton of buses linking the two areas.

This map at this link indicates routes 3 and 120 are on 4th and 5th while route 11 is on 1st Avenue.

Both Route 3 and 120 come every 15 minutes straight up to Hillcrest.

I live on 1st and have no problem heading downtown on the 11, which also comes every 15 minutes, and often do for Padre games or meeting with friends for drinks. Or even heading down to take pictures of construction. :D

About a subway up to there... I think sending the Trolley through the park is an ill concieved idea. I think if such a thing ever were to occurr... it should be underground.... probably underneath 5th Ave. From there... turn right and go down University 'til Park... and then either switch up to El Cajon or continue down University. Stay on either all the way 'til I15 or go to SDSU somehow. The southern area... I think straight down 5th all the way to the Harbor and the current tracks and tie in with those. Maybe continue further south and go under the bay and link with Coronado! Gee.... it's fun to think of this stuff! :tup:

Btw, here are maps of the prefered alignment for the proposed California High Speed Rail system. I am adding these to the post for 2 reasons; we need more pics and it clarifies the project as discussed above.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...l/chsramap.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n.../HSR-SoCal.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...ail/HSR-SD.jpg

HSR can suck my.....without SD in it's first (and only) phase.

:)

Why on Earth are we even talking about HSR? It may be a neat idea and some people may even feel passionately about it but I can't see many more unnecessary things this state could waste its money on.

Another subject can always be introduced to supplant this one. but, discussing the project here has merits.

Up in San Francisco they are very energetic about the proposals for Transbay Terminal. The building is a mixed use and will obviously include transit. HSR too. Three proposals have been submitted with at least 2 of them being over 1000 feet. Maybe all three.

I ask you (or anybody for that matter) to think of the possibilities for something here? There is yet to be some local interest for redeveloping Santa Fe Depot, but if it comes here that is exactly what will need to be done. We're not talking about Amtrak trains or Coaster service. We're talking about something like the French TGV having a southern terminal here. HSR coming to San Diego could be the launching point for discussions on putting the current heavy rail stuff below grade... and freeing up access to getting to the Bay and what-not. HSR will bring thousands of daily travellers to SD each day. Liesurely travel will increase too... and bring many more $ to downtown. It certainly could not hurt property values! In fact, I saw an article on wha tthe French TGV has done for property values around their stations. The same would likely happen here.

FYI for those interested:

Published Tuesday, August 21, 2007, by Assetz Property News Service

Rail boost for French property

As anybody who has done their homework on the property market will
know, the key to making good returns on an investment is having it in
the right place. As the Channel 4 series of the same name says,
"location, location, location" is of prime importance.

A key part of location is accessibility. Unless the investor has an
eye to catering to a market that is seeking solitude and isolation way
up in the hills -- perhaps a writer on retreat, for example -- the
chances are they will want to make sure their property is easily
accessible to all potential clients.

A number of reports earlier this year have concluded that it is
beneficial to have an airport served by budget airlines in reach of
the property. One German study found that there was as much as a 20
per cent difference in the returns made by investors, depending on
their proximity to a budget airline landing zone.

Investors on the popular French market will no doubt be delighted then
to hear that the country's famous high-speed rail system -- TGV -- is
being expanded all the time and is set to cover even more of the
country over the next few years. What is more, France can now be
reached by rail from the UK via the Channel Tunnel, allowing for
seamless almost door-to-door travel.

According to the Daily Telegraph, "the development of France's
high-speed rail network is opening up potential new markets for
overseas buyers". A new service between Paris and Strasbourg was
launched earlier this month and reportedly cut travel times between
the two cities by half.

The Telegraph claims that the new line "will increase property prices
not just in Strasbourg itself but in other destinations too, such as
Reims and Colmar", which are near enough to benefit from the new line.

And some commentators are suggesting that a growing trend towards
environmentally-friendly tourism will result in more people using
trains to get around, as they are less polluting than air or road
transport.

Short-haul flights produce 180 grammes of carbon per
passenger/kilometre, while cars produce on average 111g. In contrast,
train emissions per passenger weigh in at just 5.7g.

"We're seeing an increased demand for rail travel from people who are
keen to do their bit to help protect the environment," Amanda Monroe
of European rail ticket provider Rail Europe told the Telegraph.

^^ Well that'll be great for the rest of CA. They should really benefit.

Maybe I am confused.....
 

But I thought this thread was about San Diego Downtown Urban development?

:koko:

exactly, I agree. With the current plan there is not even a guarantee the second phase that includes SD would even happen. They would do Phase I linking LA and SF and then "analyze" the bennefits before doing the second route. At this rate we are looking at 30-50 years before we have something. We need something NOW - the 5 in north county is hideous during any daylight hours.

it is but there's not much news right now with developmetn downtown, might as well keep the thread alive :yinyang::deadthread:

I recently talked to a senior planner at CCDC and the Hotel Indigo is set to begin in October. They are in final plan check right now.

good news!! is it just me, or does it seem like a "hotel boom" is going to replace the condo boom downtown??

I found this on a press release related to Stingaree, from EnDev, the company that brought us stingaree, sidebar, and others, I guess has a new hillcrest venture in mind:

• Universal—Opening fall 2007, this Hillcrest destination will cater to professionals who seek a sophisticated, yet comfortable dining and entertainment venue.

Does anyone know where this going to be located? And more importantly, is Hillcrest going upscale? As much as I'd love new bars over there (not including univ. heights), (especially something with a decent patio for the LOVE OF GOD), does this mean I have to pay 20 dollars to get in even in hillcrest?

this isn't about development, but interesting discovery at the development site at 16th and market ;)

Mammoth discovery downtown
UNION-TRIBUNE
August 30, 2007

Workers excavating the site of the old St. Vincent de Paul thrift store downtown just made a stunning discovery – an 8-foot-long fossil thought to be the tusk of a Columbian mammoth.

The prehistoric “elephant” tusk, 10 inches in diameter at its thickest end, could be as much as 500,000 years old, said Thomas Demere, curator of paleontology at the San Diego Natural History Museum.

Columbian mammoths were known to inhabit the county between 100,000 and 500,000 years ago, and fossils of skulls, jawbones, molars and tusks – though none as big as this one – have been found in the San Luis Rey River Valley in Oceanside.



But 27 years of excavations in downtown San Diego have revealed primarily fossils of marine life, Demere said.
“All of a sudden we have this spectacular, startling discovery,” he said. “It's the most exciting paleontological find ever made in downtown San Diego. We now can clearly say that mammoths lived in this area.”

Father Joe Carroll of St. Vincent de Paul Village is excited about the discovery and wants to make sure, once an analysis is completed, that the public will see it.

The tusk was unearthed 30 feet down (13 feet above sea level) during excavation of the nonprofit's land at 16th and Market streets, where a 14-story housing project will be built. Demere immediately encased the tusk in a plaster cast for protection, and it will be hoisted out of the hole tomorrow afternoon for further evaluation at the museum.

Carroll praised the Roel Construction crew for recognizing the enormity of the find and helping with the tusk's recovery.

While the homeless shelter is officially the fossil's owner, Carroll said he wants to work in partnership with the museum to make sure the public has access to it.

“It's amazing to think that a Columbian mammoth walked on the same streets as we're walking on,” he said.

When he learned the mammoth ate about 700 pounds of vegetation a day, Carroll said, “I'm glad it's dead. I couldn't afford to feed it.”

Yes, I saw this site the other day going to Trader Joe's (PLEASE open one downtown!!!!). I'm not sure the cross street name but it is on University Avenue near the Ralph's/Trader Joe's shopping complex. I noticed the banner on the construction and have been meaning to look it up. It says something about being the world's first "omnisexual" lounge, so not sure what that means.
The construction itself looks kind of shotty though, expecially compared to dowtnown. It looks like typical wood construction that you would see on a home not the concrete and steel construction we see dowtown
Hillcrest/North Park are seeing alot of development, but the people who live in those communities are even worse than the ones downtown when it comes to being "anti-development". I used to live in North Park, and all my neighbors would protest anytime a "high-rise" (meaning over 4 stories) was planned.
There is a residential tower on the north end of Balboa Park that has topped out. I forget the name of it, but its very high end and will have awesome views of the park/downtown

At least three cruise ship berths I would think is absolutely essential. I've seen 3 ships in town already, but anything you can do to make it more attractive for both the companies as well as passengers will improve the economic benefits. The Dawn Princess ship, which I was just on for my honeymoon Alaskan cruise the last week and a half, is relocating to San Diego as it's new home port in September to start doing Mexican Riviera runs.

On our cruise, one stop was Juneau, the state capitol with 40,000 residents. The day we were in port, they had FIVE cruise ships there. Four were docked, one was tendered. Apparently, according to our guide on one tour, the city is adding another pier to hold two more ships, and plans within 5-10 years to add another two berths, so potentially this city could handle 9 cruise ships at once. With all the room San Diego has along the waterfront, there's no reason they couldn't handle at least 3-4 ships at once. I realize there's fewer ships down here vs Alaska, but the "if you build it, they will come" attitude does and CAN work, just as we see already with the increased cruise traffic to San Diego. But they need to build a beautiful port of entry there for passengers. Even San Francisco, supposedly a maritime-rich city, has a horrendous and extremely unsightly cruise ship terminal, something even the captain of our ship said is killing the city as a embarkation point or even a stop for cruise ships, they dont have adequate facilities and I think he said there's only one cruise company (Princess) left that operates in/out of San Francisco, aside from the fact that SF is just an inconvenient spot for ANY cruise.... Alaska cruises should go out of Seattle or Vancouver, Mexico ones should go from SD or LA.

Quick update on Costa Verde taken yesterday:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1436/...a39ff136_b.jpg

Wow, it looks like that crane on that project is lifting 4 I-beams simultaneously!

As an aside, I believe a HSR station is proposed for the UTC area.

^I think a trolley station is planned, too.

Yeah! SANDAG is studying an extension of the Trolley from Old Town up to UTC area. Both UCSD and the Westfield development would have stations... along with ones at Balboa and a couple other places. I have doubts it'll happed tho. Unfortunately it is looking too expensive relative to the benefit.

I like the idea. Construction prices suck. :(

An agenda and supporting materials have been posted on the CCDC web site for the CCAC Pre-Design Subcommittee. Two of three projects are proposals for semi-tall hotels immediately between the El Cortez and Symphony Towers. But, i don't beieve either is taller than 20 floors. This block is bounded by 7th, 8th, Ash and A Street. One project, "719 Ash" is located on the northside and faces El Cortez. The second is "1342 8th Avenue" and faces east.

The third project, "1492 K Street" is a smaller hotel in a part of the East Village that is in dire need of improvements. This is the edge of bum-ville and drug dealing corners.

719 Ash - Hotel Proposal

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...19AshHotel.jpg



1342 8th Avenue - Hotel Proposal

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...hAve-Hotel.jpg


1492 K Street - 5 Floor Hotel

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...1492KHotel.jpg

Thanks for posting! If it wasn't for the odd design in the light brown portion of the building, this is a nice looking tower.

If you download the entire package, you'll see that the "light brown" portion of the building is copper panels. This will be awsome, as it patenas over time!

Happy to see something other than condos being proposed for downtown San Diego.

Oh, I see. The brown to turquoise tint is something I like.;)

1342 8th Ave
 

I like the hotel rendering, unique design, hopefully it gets built :tup:

I really think that with the condo slow-down we are going to see a hotel boom over the next two years. Even though it seems like we already have alot of hotels, the market analysis shows new hotels are profitable downtown

My first choice would be for a business and civic boom, but hotels are better than stopping development entirely

A beautiful Labor Day weekend. A few updates.

La Jolla Commons:

In this first (blurry) photo you can see the midrise is now well above ground level (white arrow) and the lowrise 8 story building (on the right) is having cladding installed.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1401/...61b3049d_o.jpg

Another angle:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1024/...eba53e93_o.jpg

And a close-up of the cladding on the lowrise:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/...fc3b52fa_o.jpg

Bonus:

Here's a contextual view so you can get a sense of how the Costa Verde Project is changing the University City skyline. Extra bonus points if you know where I took this one from...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1067/...12750d19_o.jpg

My guess is somewhere west of I5 along, or off of, Gilman Drive between Evening Way and Villa La Jolla Drive. Probably east of Gillman tho. Maybe off of a roof or a balcony from one of the condo's there.

^^ That mid-rise isn't a mid-rise so to speak. It is the parking structure.

They must be having a tough time installing that spiffy new radar at Miramar because they still haven't made any vertical progress on the office tower.

A ballon!

Not to start another bout of complaining, but I think it's sad how so many of the University City towers are that crappy stucco. Venture over to the Bellevue construction thread to see what UC should look like.