I understand it's not city property... but That will not stop me from opposing it with the council or the regents! May be a loosing battle, but they need to know it is not a good idea.
As for Red River, you will now have to turn twice...once accross traffic either way to travel up or down Red River. I can't see how that would not affect traffic flow.

I think eventually Brackenridge would be torn down and a new events center/basketball arena would be built in its place (this is badly needed for UT and for Austin). Then, the Frank Erwin Center could be torn down and replaced with... something. Not sure what. But it's UT land, so likely new university buildings of some kind.

A) Red River is not a major thru route anyway, so it isn't that big of a deal.
B) I second Syndic completely.

Most of Centennial Park is occupied by the tennis courts, which is mostly what this project would be replacing. So...you could argue that all it's replacing are the tennis courts, and that the park will be mostly untouched. And of course I'm sure there will be improvements made and better access to the creek. It could even follow some of the improvements we'll see at Waterloo Park after the flood control tunnel project is done.

Here is a more detailed map of Phase 1 from the press release from UT today:

http://www.utexas.edu/news/files/del...school-map.jpg

You can clearly see that the park largely survives.

The release also confirms that the Frank Erwin Center will be torn down and replaced, but not for at least 6 years. There are some rumors on Orangebloods.com that it could be relocated to Mueller. I don't know how likely that is. I'm not sure I like that idea. I'd rather it be an on-campus arena, although a Mueller arena would certainly enliven that area of Austin in a huge way.

Here's a map from this KUT News article of what the complete buildout could look like, with the Erwin Center completely demolished and replaced:

http://i.imgur.com/gyP4XXI.jpg

Man, this will radically change Austin as we know it. That part of town will be completely unrecognizable.

I honestly would like to see taller buildings but I have a feeling that the CVC's are fairly dense and close together in that area since its one of the few unhindered views of the State Capital from I-35, I doubt we will see anything much taller than the current Brack building. I seriously hope if they align Red river they will not have it split like that at 15th because that would be the stupidest thing they could ever do. If they wait until Brack is torn down to do the changes then fine but not before.

Here's another one from this article showing even more:

http://alcalde.texasexes.org/wp-cont.../05/phase3.jpg

Looks like they're going to develop that whole parking lot north of MLK, which I'm all for. Also, that little triangle of land north of MLK between Red River and I-35 is getting a building. That's good. I've always thought that empty land was such a waste.

Here's another from the UT Master Plan PDF (
FYI, the good stuff starts on page 148) showing the whole plan:

http://i.imgur.com/St90PmK.jpg

What stands out to me is that they're leaving basically no parking lots. All parking lots are being developed. That's good for Austin's urban environment.

This is awesome for several reasons:

1) Promotes Economy and Development (including more density on the surrounding areas)
2) It will frame the View of the Capital and UT and make downtown appear as more of a dense development towards Lady Bird.... kind of like Chicago or Manhattan as seen from the water...
3) That area wouldn't develop well if it were looked at as an opportunity to build a mega-tall hospital building like in Little Rock. All you can hope for at that point is for TCBY to build something tall. This is a much bigger deal than that.... It lays the foundation for continued development and financial protection of downtown.... We don't ever want the downtown area to fizzle if one part of our economy fails (like Detroit)
4) All in all, it will mean more height and density (and urban rail)...

Yay

There are some pretty extensive view corridors on those lots, but there is one large slice where this is no CVC.

http://i.imgur.com/lTGm6.jpg

Also, if you look at this rendering that Syndic posted, they're showing an area larger than just the Centennial Park and Erwin Center lots. It shows the medical school campus occupying land from 13th street to 19th Street between Trinity and I-35. And if you look at the CVC map above, it shows that there is only one CVC in the area surrounded by 12th & 15th Street, Red River Street & I-35. So there could be some tall buildings in there.

I count maybe 7 highrises (115 feet or taller) in this rendering. The two tallest buildings on the southern end of the complex look like they might *might* be close to 200 feet.

http://i.imgur.com/gyP4XXI.jpg


This could also help to push the redevelopment of the Capitol Complex. Note in the rendering above that I posted, that the medical school complex goes all the way south as far south as Waterloo Park. It would be amazing to see Waterloo Park be flanked by development on both sides with something better than huge parking garages and parking lots.

Just looked thru the master plan. The Erwin is considered a "Medium term" property. When that area is filled out there is no Arena in site. But there is also no mentio of where an Arena would end up!

It is if you live downtown! Besides now it means that there will be tons more traffic dumped onto 15th. It will also KILL traffic on 15th... which is a major east/west corridor to get in and out of downtown.

Look closer folks. It's truly "Campus" thinking. It all turns "in" away from streets and the city. It is suburban thinking in an Urban setting.

Please don't get me wrong, I am very happy about the Med Center. I'm just once again frustrated that UT is not connecting to an Urban landscape. This feels like "The Woodlands" in the middle of downtown.

Not connecting to an urban landscape? UT has about the most urban-centric campus this side of NYU. I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but I for one appreciate the priority on 'academic boundries' being valued given the space constraints.

Love that they're making the buildings orange as well. This will really elevate school pride. :tup:

The orange color in these renderings is only to highlight which buildings are relevant. They won't end up that color at all.

Damnit. No sarcasm emoticon. Oh well.

Come on, wwmiv. That sarcasm was kinda obvious, dude.

Oh. Oops.

Orange you glad they aren't maroon?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D

Good! Glad to see that the football stadium has the southern end completed in the plan. I was not happy when I heard A&M was building up their stadium with more capacity than ours. Once our stadium's south end is complete, ours will once again be bigger which is how it should always be.

They should keep the arena by DT. The last article about a future location mentioned it could be near the Convention Center. I could see it built just east of 35 on the south side of the commuter rail line. The location would be perfect and close to the Fairmont and other hotels. Heck if I-35 is put underground, the arena could sit above it.

A collection of more UT Dell medical school images
 

I love the plans so far of the new Med School, but I am a bit conflicted regarding the Erwinn Center. On the one hand I would love for Austin to have something closer to the Convention Center or Auditorium Shores like next to the Long/Palmer. On the other hand I hate when schools don't keep their stuff on campus. Having gone to UCLA believe me when I say playing in the Rose Bowl rather than on campus is horrible and something I very much dislike. And we are talking about UT and basketball, not football.

TLDR: as an Austinite I'd like to see it by the Convention Center, as a Longhorn I'd like is to see Gregory Gym fixed up. :D

What about an arena where the police department is? Could use that entire block east of Waller Creek for the arena and the block north of there for parking structures.

The problem with relocating a basketball arena in downtown is it would need 4 blocks. The Erwin Center is huge. It's the 2nd largest building in downtown footprint wise. Only the convention center is larger, which covers 6 blocks.

I would put a new basketball arena on the land just south of the DKR Stadium. It would move it closer to campus and would centralize the sports complex. Of course they would need to move the School of Social Work, the Recreational Sports Center and maybe the swim center. Plus it would be nice to get rid of those parking lots.

It doesn't have to be quite as big a footprint as FEC. Those 4 blocks include all the concrete around the arena. They don't have to build another round arena that has all of that area around it. It could be rectangle and have a smaller footprint.

The AT&T Center in San Antonio is roughly the same footprint as the actual FEC (not the surrounding area), and that includes the superfluous awnings and whatnot on either side of the AT&T Center. Not to mention it holds over 18,000, almost 2k more than FEC.

But you are right that it may be too big for that APD location. I'm just not sure we couldn't fit it in less than a 4 block area.

This is all with the thought in mind that the city builds its own arena and UT builds their own. If they're going to share, I'd much rather the arena be on campus.

They could put it farther north off Red River, where the "bubble" football practice facility is. That place looks like crap anyway. The new arena could be configured to be used as an indoor practice field for football when needed.

I want to see if possible, an on-campus venue preferably where Gregory or the PCL currently sit. A massive renovation of Gregory, incorporating the space of the rec facilities attached, redone into a 10,000-12000 seat arena, with an intimate, classic field house atmosphere. There's likely enough room in there, and given there are 2 rec sports facilities on campus (a replacement for Gregory wouldn't be hard to do) this proximity for the arena would be excellent. Same for the PCL, which is an out-dated, fallout shelter-designed library from the '70's; lots of wasted space in that place, and its a bit of an eyesore to boot. (I spent quality nights in there over 4 (5) years so it won't be without a bittersweet farewell.)

I know Texas Football is King, but when you're basketball program is one of 3 or 4 in the country to turn a legitimate profit ($8-10 MM/yr), all the while doing it w/ that cavernous circus arena that is currently the Erwin Center, it makes sense to think about investing in something appropriately sized in the heart and spirit of campus. Basketball programs take the next step based on homecourt advantages and student body experiences; it helps recruiting, morale, donations, everything. It makes sense to invest in this way. Especially when your current venue is going to be demolished anyway :cheers:

I am completely in favor of your ideas.

They should knock down the Sally and ARCH and build it between 7th and 8th and Trinity and Red River. Eliminate Neches that bisects the site to create a large parcel of land. It needs to be close to restaurants and bars and within walking distance of all the new hotels being built. You could build out some of the surface plots nearby with multi-level garages incorporating street level bars, restaurants and shops.

I don't think there is any chance of that happening. With a smaller venue, we wouldnt be able to attract bigger acts to come and perform in Austin. There is alot of money brought in to the local economy when we have acts such as Paul McCartney come to Austin. Plus there is already an arena of the size you are talking about, the Cedar Park Events Center. I could see them doing something like an AT&T Center here. They need something of that size to stay competetive with surrounding big cities.

The idea of Gregory is that this is for a schools basketball programs. Moving those programs to that location would be fantastic for them. If the city want pop concerts and sesame street on ice and such then the city should build something for them.

I doubt UT would want to miss out on their cut of the action from the acts that perform at the FEC.

UT having a good, and more popular, program will and does make the make them a lot more money than any thing they get from hosting the circus. Remember there is a lot more to programs like that than tickets, like mercendise and TV deals. Moving to the center of campus would be the best thing for that program.

And IMO that would be best for Austin too. Austin needs something close to the convention center or Long center. Also Austin really need something that can fit 18-20k. UT is not going to provide either of those. The types of event you are talking about need to be seperated from the UT basketball programs. I believe Austin has grown enough it needs its own place now. Or really it passed that point a long time ago, but always had the FEC so we have never gotten a real facility like we need.

I find myself on the fence on this one. The FEC is in a great location. Between Downtown and Campus. It's an easy walk from either direction. While I understand UT does well on the B'ball program, it seems like the profit from the rest of the year has to be attractive....b'ball only takes up one season after all. (Note the university moved local arts of campus to have greater use/profit from Bass.... we did benefit from that action)

It is curious to me that UT has not mentioned where an arena would be built in all of the "Master Plan" announcements. I wonder if they are thinking off campus? It makes me think there are other discussion going on that are not public. I wonder if there are, god forbid, actual talks going on to create a public/private effort? ( See: Louisville).

Perhpas UT could negotiate with other agencies in the state....tear down some of those god-awful parking decks onTrinity and build an Arena on top of parking.
That would keep an Arena in a location that would also connect both directions and bring more life to a part of the CBD that is underutilized.

Good thing is, we should see some movement on this either way within the next couple of years, as the med school gets going and they have the ticking clock till the Erwin will need to be removed. They'll need to have some lead time to open a new venue just as the FEC is being shut down. Unless it coincides w/ the off season, I would expect the Erwin to be decommissioned, just as this new basketball venue is completed.

My first choice would be for on campus arena but if they decide to build it elsewhere, I'd rather have it by the Convention Center. I think it could be another added plus for the city to bring in more events plus with the commuter line and access to multiple hotels, might be a better option in regards to traffic to and from the arena.

What lots near the convention center do y'all see as having potential?

It wouldn't fit on any block in downtown without closing a street, and since people have already raised the issue negatively about closing streets in downtown, it wouldn't work. We already lost a lot of through streets for the convention center, the federal building, the federal courthouse and the governor's mansion.

Most of the blocks in downtown are 275x275 feet. The Erwin Center building itself is 400 feet wide.

The largest blocks in downtown that haven't been conjoined with another are the ones that front Congress Avenue. Those are 275X335 feet.

The only other place with a large area would be the three blocks east of the convention center along Cesar Chavez. But one of those blocks includes Palm park which was one of the original parks in the city plan. And I don't think that would fit either because Waller Creek runs through part of it.

I still say the best option is having it be south of the DKR stadium.

The AT&T Center in San Antonio is also at least 418x545 feet

Alamodome is 600x740 feet

American Airlines Arena in Dallas is 400x510 feet

Toyota Center in Houston is 424x490 feet

Also sports arenas kill downtowns. They're like urban theme parks. They create dead zones around them Example? Our convention center area and the DKR Stadium and Erwin Center.

If they're going to share, the area on campus south of Memorial Stadium would be great. I'd love for it to be in Gregory, but that's probably not feasible.

I just really don't want to share an arena off campus.

Only area where it works is American Airlines in Dallas where you have Victory Park sprung up out of it. Its a pretty hi-fi area for retail, residential, and tourism, but again, Dallas has a douschey-ness about it that can pull off such a feat. ;) (I kid Dallas..)

I was thinking they should build an arena maybe something similar to the BOK Center in Tulsa and put it across the river where the Statesman facility is. How awesome would that be and we can surround the new arena with high density mixed use projects as well.

That'd be fine for a city arena, but not a preferred option for a UT arena.

I love the idea of having an arena where the Statesman building is now. That'd be perfect from a city/entertainment perspective. I can't imagine a more marquee venue than that in the city of Austin. It'd be great for local music. However, in that scenario, It might be better for the city and the university to build separate arenas. That would allow UT to build a smaller, more intimate one somewhere on campus. On the other hand, it could be good for basketball recruiting to have such a cool place to play, so, I don't know.

Another good option I always thought would be at the southeast corner of highways 290 east and 183 (aka Ed Bluestein). There's a huge chunk of land there just ripe for a massive project. Heck maybe even a theme park adjacent to a new arena!

I completely agree. Really important to keep the arena downtown for a variety of reasons. This location is brilliant because no one visits this part of the river already, but could be accessible to much new development both north and south of it's location. It could also, in 10-12 years, be connected by rail to campus and help provide an easy way for students and others to travel to and from the stadium within downtown.

I've already posted where It could go. Does anybody not read my posts????

I said put it just on the other side of 35 just south along the Commuter line, there is enough open land there, no houses, there's that ugly old junk yard that could be removed. Its not officially in DT but its right there and easy access to rail, the hotels and the Convention Center not to mention 6th.

Hey, has anyone seen Jdawg lately? He hasn't posted on here in quite awhile.




;)

Who?

Just to shoot down everything mentioned so far:

Those lots should be residential redevelopment, not civic/commercial. Especially given that basketball arenas are usually used as music venues as well. Can you imagine the noise nightmare for all the folks around there?

It isn't going to go on campus, either (there isn't anywhere to put it), nor will two arenas be built. Austin will not have its own basketball team, not should they try to get one (it is a waste of public funds). Having the university team is just fine, and building an arena in conjunction with them is fine as well.

It won't be the Statesman lot, as there are already ideas for that lot that are much better suited for the area - and the lot itself isn't big enough at all (if you could parcel it together with the surrounding lots it would be, but not by itself).

It won't be in Mueller, as those plans are too far progressed to change (though this would be far superior to anything above).

What I would like to see is to utilize some of the empty land in Roy Guerrero park for an arena just south of the Krieg Softball Complex. It would be in proximity to the urban rail line (eventually), facilitating transport of students, and it's already in a student heavy area anyway incidentally.

Utilizing underground parking could very easily be done to keep the area scenic, and allow for better integration and flow into the parkland. It would be a good destination and draw people to actually utilize this park, which is woefully underused as it is.

Street level retail along Pleasant Valley could be done (as in the arena could be built literally adjacent to the street to save space and minimize destruction of parkland), along with upgrades to Longhorn Shores (the park across the street) into a riverside promenade that would nicely dovetail with an arena development.

Some, ofcourse, would call this blasphemy because we're "getting rid of parkland," but I'd remind them that large portions of this park serve absolutely no purpose and are not used at all by anyone.

It also happens that a development like this would fit into the city's plan w/r/t this area of town, as a denser more urban environment. It would complement the recent and forthcoming developments in the area.