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-   -   CHICAGO | General Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105764)

wrab Nov 20, 2009 9:17 PM

^ Here's the rendering that accompanies the article:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y15...16_49_16_4.jpg
http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhal...paul.fullimage

J_M_Tungsten Nov 20, 2009 10:50 PM

New perimeter fencing around the ritz-carlton, looks like lots of activity on the site
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...N/97bf0a7b.jpg

Silver Tower looks pretty cool when sitting in traffic on Ohio.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...N/5cdaf16c.jpg

J_M_Tungsten Nov 20, 2009 10:54 PM

Childrens memorial or whatever they're going to call it.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...N/652d31d2.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...N/0883ae30.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...N/5694b0e6.jpg

BWChicago Nov 21, 2009 12:07 AM

I went to Landmarks Illinois' Preservation Snapshots series at the Cultural Center talking about the cast iron restoration at Carson Pirie Scott; here are my notes.

-The building underwent its most drastic changes between 1928-1935; the canopy on Madison was moved at that time, as CPS created a Grand Aisle down the middle of the store. The canopy is not being moved back because that would be a lot of work and "untrue to the development history of the building", which, as a preservationist, I think is bunk; the most significant part of CPS, and the main thing that will remain of it, is Sullivan's architecture, and the design integrity of that is most important. I think the ability to show what was built in 1899, that first bay, is more important than the Grand Aisle that won't be in any way visible in the reconfigured space. Basically I read it as using a preservation excuse for an economic problem, that or IHPA and Landmarks are being deliberately obtuse. After all the southernmost 1960s bays weren't there in 1928-1935 and the cartouches were, so it's not really restored to any one period now, except maybe the period between removing the cartouches and removing the cornice. Is that not false history? Presumably this is also why the corner windows are still double-hungs instead of plate glass.

-The cartouches and doodads we noticed missing numbered about 500 pcs in total, were removed in the 40s at the same time as the cornice, and are not being replaced as part of this restoration campaign, although provision was made in the new structure to support them if added in the future. The project scope chosen is the bare-bones version and cost about 12 million, the replicas would have added 7 million. Since there wasn't as much TIF allocated for this they couldn't replicate it. So if you look at it and wish you were seeing the whole thing, cast your eyes on Block 37. The missing base has been recreated though; it was originally a grillage over windows to the basement but will now be a bronze grillage over a solid back.

-Paint - in 1979 John Vinci and Tim Samuelson had restored the paint to what their analysis showed was original, the familiar green-and-red fake bronze look. This time, they went inside the canopy - remember, it was moved around 1930 - and did the analysis. Turns out that where Vinci sampled was actually about the 6th layer, the earlier ones having worn away or been stripped. Since the paint inside the canopy was undisturbed since 1930, it still had the original paint. That's why it's this dark green now that just so happens to nearly match the State Street street furniture. The ornament was stripped by Redi-Strip using alkaline immersion and an electrolytic process to thoroughly remove the corrosion. The iron was then repaired for voids and missing spots using epoxy and welds; there were a lot of voids, shills, and air pockets that had never been properly addressed. The coating is all Sherwin-Williams and is a cold galvanizer, an epoxy intermediate, and a urethane paint.

-Awnings. The original canvas awnings are being recreated; they were Sullivan's design and their original use was again short lived (again not really looking like 1935). They were recessed in the facade and could not be serviced so they were covered over; the new ones match and are serviceable and also motorized.

-Prism glass. They said there was a lot of back and forth between IHPA, Landmarks, and the project about this. Ultimately the prism glass was removed very early on and it would not have been accurate to the 1935 period to reinstall it; it also gives a space for tenant signage so there won't be issues of cluttering the display windows.

The main issue obviously was the structure holding the iron, which was deficient to start with and badly deteriorated. It was severely racked even from the beginning, and was also tilting out of vertical. It was very difficult to engineer new structure without adding dimension. The new structure also provides for expansion joints and for the first time ever the cast iron is properly fastened.

ardecila Nov 21, 2009 12:33 AM

Thanks for the update on CPS. Hopefully we can find that additional $7 million for the replacement cartouches.

I'm not sure I understand how the transom works. They want to place tenant signage there, which is a good solution, but won't it be obscured by the awnings?

Not moving the canopy seems like a copout, but it would have been a massive endeavor and added quite a bit to the cost. Justifying it on some shaky notion of "restoring it to 1935 appearance" seems kinda weaselly, though. Admit that cost was the motivator, not historic accuracy. I'm actually more curious to see if Sullivan's ornamented chains will be replacing the nondescript guy wires that currently hold up the canopy.

denizen467 Nov 21, 2009 9:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten (Post 4569844)
New perimeter fencing around the ritz-carlton, looks like lots of activity on the site
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/t...N/97bf0a7b.jpg

Just in time for the Mag Mile Lights Festival and the whole shopping season. Good for them and good for the city since it spiffs up this prominent missing-tooth site as visitors start pouring in.

BWChicago Nov 21, 2009 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 4570073)
Thanks for the update on CPS. Hopefully we can find that additional $7 million for the replacement cartouches.

I'm not sure I understand how the transom works. They want to place tenant signage there, which is a good solution, but won't it be obscured by the awnings?

Not moving the canopy seems like a copout, but it would have been a massive endeavor and added quite a bit to the cost. Justifying it on some shaky notion of "restoring it to 1935 appearance" seems kinda weaselly, though. Admit that cost was the motivator, not historic accuracy. I'm actually more curious to see if Sullivan's ornamented chains will be replacing the nondescript guy wires that currently hold up the canopy.

I think the idea for the transoms is that they'll be the main signage, visible from elsewhere on State, then you can get away with smaller or interior signage for the rest. I guess it also depends what kind of tenants they land. The chains wouldn't be added back because they weren't moved when the canopy moved. I wonder if they made structural provision for moving the canopy back. I bet not. It is pretty cool how the canopy preserved the paint, though.

Chicago Shawn Nov 22, 2009 5:54 PM

BWChicago, thank you for that informative post on CPS.:tup:

jc5680 Nov 23, 2009 7:56 PM

Timeout Chicago has a decent preview of the French Market coming to the MetraMarket

http://www3.timeoutny.com/chicago/bl...photo-gallery/

spyguy Nov 24, 2009 12:01 AM

Presidential Towers retail redevelopment (excuse the crappy pics)
McDonald's, Potbelly, and the Thai restaurant will be joined by Yolk, Fitness Formula, and others.
Clinton & Monroe
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4749/p1010034lo.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7946/...dermanc314.jpg
Jefferson & Monroe - they've cut down some small trees to make way for the retail addition. A Crain's article mentioned they were talking to a gourmet market for this space, although Presidential Market could renew and expand.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3543/p1010032pz.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7...dermanc318.jpg
Clinton side - horrible loading dock will be replaced by this 3 story gym atrium/ entrance
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/779/p1010034lb.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2...dermanc312.jpg

jcchii Nov 24, 2009 2:33 AM

^at least better than what's there

the urban politician Nov 24, 2009 2:50 AM

^ A LOT better than what's there.

Lets hope this development is successful and spurs other owners of downtown property to do the same. I'd love to see that God-awful garage at the SW corner of State and Chicago get redeveloped into something more street-activating than the blank wall along the sidewalk that it currently is.

elguero Nov 24, 2009 4:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 4574818)
I'd love to see that God-awful garage at the SW corner of State and Chicago get redeveloped into something more street-activating than the blank wall along the sidewalk that it currently is.

i think you probably mean chicago and dearborn, and amen to that--what a hideous garage.

of course, the parking lot on the SW corner of state and chicago is no better...

Nowhereman1280 Nov 24, 2009 4:40 AM

^^^ Yeah but at least that lot is a prime opportunity for a huge tower or two. I'd rather the church sit on it for a decade or two more and let the development pressure get really huge and then get a Hancock sized or bigger tower there.

PS I love how the tenant in that one picture is "Urban Apparel" great name mashup of the two hipster apparel darlings. I should start a store with that name and just offer knock off products of AA and UO.

Why are people posting pictures of Ritz-Carlton and Children's in this thread? Those towers are too tall, they belong in the Boom Rundown, not general developments. Someone should move them.

Tom Servo Nov 24, 2009 7:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyguy (Post 4574471)
Presidential Towers retail redevelopment



my initial reaction is wow, shocking nice improvement.


btw, anyone else a member of ffc? that's just a fantastic gym. :yes:

Steely Dan Nov 24, 2009 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcchii (Post 4574782)
^at least better than what's there

at least better?

man, like TUP and adrian, i'm actually fairly impressed by the plans to transform the street fronts around presidential towers. yes, in a perfect world that whole damn block would be obliterated so that we could start over, but that's an amazingly unrealistic prospect, and this new plan could take what is currently utter crap and transform it into a pleasant pedestrian/urban experience.

wrab Nov 24, 2009 4:06 PM

^ Seriously about the gym? 'Cuz I need to find a new one.

Just about anything would be an improvement over what's at PT now.

emathias Nov 24, 2009 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 4575586)
... yes, in a perfect world that whole damn block would be obliterated so that we could start over, but ...

I thought I heard once that the original plan for PT allowed for at least two more towers, if not four to form an "X" pattern. Am I delusional, and if not, were caissons built for those, or just room left?

Tom Servo Nov 24, 2009 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan
yes, in a perfect world that whole damn block would be obliterated so that we could start over

in a perfect world...? in a perfect world SO many blocks/buildings would have this happen, i'd say...


Quote:

Originally Posted by wrabbit (Post 4575589)
^ Seriously about the gym? 'Cuz I need to find a new one.

Just about anything would be an improvement over what's at PT now.

seriously.
i go to the one near my house (pine grove and waveland), but i'm also at the FFC in the south loop from time to time... i really like the smaller size...
my only complaint is the pool sucks, it's really small (17 yards or so), and the south loop club doesn't even have one...

nonetheless, i really like FFC. :tup:

lawfin Nov 24, 2009 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 4575838)
I thought I heard once that the original plan for PT allowed for at least two more towers, if not four to form an "X" pattern. Am I delusional, and if not, were caissons built for those, or just room left?

Emporis shows plans for 2 more towers never built. Beyong that I do not know

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/cx/?id=...towers-chicago


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