Another capital city is St. John's. This one is St. John's, Antigua (ANU). Year-round YYT-ANU service on AC and WS; plus AC seasonal YUL-ANU.

And NRT gained 4x? All with one 787? That can't be right. What else besides LGW was cut on the 787?

So basically the equivalent of 4 daily flights. I think YHZ can handle that, considering most of that is on narrowbody.

Yes. Antigua. Thanks.

Fridays will have approx. 600 seats to FRA on two separate A330's.

Maybe they're going all out with all 7x 787 operating at least for 1 day a week. The worse is just to have to delay a flight for a day, or cancel 1 flight a week if one plane is down. They still have the other 6 days to catch up with the delays :D

Or.. maybe they'll wait and see, and remove 1 flight from the worse performing route with advanced booking. Similar to what Flair did all the time :D

Indeed, the math ain't mathing.

Looking at what's being loaded in the GDS now, BCN is only 6x weekly for one week. It stays at 5x the rest of the summer.

I see EDI is being re-timed to depart earlier/ return to YYC at 12:30pm.

Maybe they're dropping the YYZ 787 runs? Which I think is dumb as that was used as a hot spare in case something went wrong.

They can still do it 6x weekly to maximize fleet use.

AC do this all the time.. you see a lot of trans-con widebody scheduled with 6x weekly and substitute a MAX/320/223 for the other one day when they need the plane for long hual. At YVR, they did 2 of those rotations a few years back (midday for DUB/KIX/CDG/ZRH and midnight MEL/DEL), and planning to do 1 next summer (midday for DUB/KIX). Maybe that's why their OTP is so bad :D

I’m so excited :haha: It’s going to be lovely to take a trip and be there in a few hours, instead of losing a whole day going to Toronto or Montreal first to connect. I really missed it. Coming back from Ireland and Spain in 2019 and 2023 killed me, when you’re looking down at NL and SPM, and still hours away from landing somewhere on the mainland, and then hours again flying back. It’s probably juvenile, definitely a first world problem, but it’s just ssssooo demoralizing, exhausting.

This is your chance to support it.

Can't be a whinger unless you do, IMO.

We did last time too. The Dublin direct flight was doing fine - our airport authority just behaved like we were doing them the favour letting them fly from here, nickled and dimed them for everything. Meanwhile, other airports rolled out the red carpet, incentives, etc. There's a lot of inertia, and as long as the airport's leaders could get to their cabins in Deer Lake, b'y, they were earning every cent of their salary.

It's typical of a lot of things here - like St. John's charging 6x what Toronto does for a restaurant wanting to rent a parking space for a patio. It's $131 in Moncton, and more than $2,500 here.

I don't think I've ever taken the Air Canada direct to London when we had it? It was prohibitively expensive for me until Westjet introduced competition.

I'll definitely go. Next trip is going to be Lisbon.

Should be doable. 7 weekly cut with 6 weekly added. Maybe the YYC-YYZ domestic turn gets reduced or chopped to compensate.

YWG wasn't the airport I was referring to though. It's an airport that had service to LHR and/or LGW continuously since the early 70s and 1986 on AC.

For YHZ-Europe, it'll be interesting to see if YOW-YHZ returns seasonally on WS as a feeder for the 2 daily Europe flights.

It's more than 6x weekly.

NRT gains 4x weekly
FCO gains 2x weekly
EDI gains 1x weekly
BCN gains 2x weekly (3x weekly gain only for ~ 2 weeks in early May 2024, but didn't count it, since CDG drops from daily to 6x weekly for 1 week around then as well)

That's a total of 9x weekly. WS will definitely have to cut domestic flying on the 787 for a couple of days every week to make room for all these additions. Of course, this is all assuming these flights are spread out evenly throughout the week. If that's not the case, then WS might need to backtrack on some of these additions.

NRT, FCO and BCN are level 3 slot coordinated airports. The slot allocations for S24 haven't been released yet. If all doesn't go to WS's plan on the slots front, then things will likely change.

In other news, looks like Azores Airlines is expanding service to YUL and YYZ. The Montreal increase is quite significant.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231114-s4ns24pdl

42x weekly is doable no? Wouldn't that leave WS with one spare?

^42x weekly is only 2x more per week than what was operated in S23.

Some of the new timings are interesting. FCO arrives in YYC at 17:06 so unless the late Transborder bank is pushed back, its going to make for some interesting connection times.

Also, there's one other WS schedule update for S24 that's been missed. YYZ-YUL has been completed removed. It was previously scheduled to resume in late April.

Last WS flight to LAX leaves after 7pm no? That's probably the largest connection point coming from FCO. Should be fine.

Looks like the AMS cuts for S24 aren't happening. LOL

Jetblue might be a whiny little child, but it's political moves are paying dividents. It helped them get AMS slots this past summer, and it will surely help them get slots for S24.

KL and DL should send B6 a gift basket or something, and give them whatever slots they want at AMS. Because of them, the flight cap will not happen in S24, and maybe even in S25.

Link in Dutch.

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2449...opig-niet-door

Translation

Indeed. Seems like there was some slack in the S23 schedule, that enables these extra 2x weekly long haul rotations in S24.

As Acey describes it over on airliners....

FCO, NRT, CDG and LHR all daily, requiring 4 frames.
EDI/BCN/DUB require 2 frames, since all three never fly on the same day.

That's a total of 6 frames needed, with the 7th doing YYC-YYZ, and used as a spare should the need arise.

Looks like round-trip for us direct to LGW will be around $1,400. That’s quite a bit more than flying to TO or MTL first, but potentially worth it for a lot of wealthier people.

For a return to Lisbon, it’s only about $250 more than going all the way to Montreal first. Cutting that most of a day off my travel time is work $250 to me. Now just need the flight to exist in February or March when I usually take vacations lol

No more YOW or YUL to YYZ on Westjet:

Separately, the airline is removing following routes in 2024, gradually closed for reservation during the week of 06NOV23:
Calgary – London Gatwick Planned 1 daily service resumption from 28APR24 closed for reservation since 0200GMT 12NOV23
Edmonton – London ON Seasonal service from 17MAY24 closed for reservation, 2 weekly
Edmonton – Penticton Seasonal service 29JUN24 – 02SEP24 closed for reservation, 1 daily
Toronto – Montreal Previously scheduled to resume on 28APR24, 1 daily
Toronto – Ottawa Last flight available for reservation from Toronto on 25APR24, Ottawa on 26APR24. This route is scheduled 1 daily

Here are YOW's October pax stats. AF to CDG continues to have a LF of around 92%, even with the last six segments at the end of the month upgauged to the 789 (or 772 sub), if assuming F8's first four CUN segments of the season came in at around a 55% LF - highly likely given the first northbound flight will have been practically empty.

Sector / Oct-22 / Oct-23 / % Chg.
Dom: 281,971 / 300,504 / +6.6%
TB: 17,567 / 45,065 / +156.5%
Int'l: 0 / 9,792 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 299,538 / 355,361 / +18.6%

Sector / YTD 2022 / YTD 2023 / % Change
Dom: 2,245,015 / 2,736,232 / +21.9%
TB: 124,536 / 448,742 / +260.3%
Int'l: 42,722 / 230,929 / +440.5%
TTL: 2,412,273 / 3,415,903 / +41.6% - on pace to end the year at ~4.05M = pace has gone +450K since January 2023

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Sep-23 / Oct-23 / % Change
Dom: 300,789 / 300,504 / -0.1%
TB: 38,599 / 45,065 / +16.8%
Int'l: 8,672 / 9,792 / +12.9%
TTL: 348,060 / 355,361 / +2.1%
Avg/Day: 11,602 / 11,463 / -1.2%
% of month's avg daily pax vs full year 2019 (13,990 avg pax/day) = 81.9%
YTD TTL vs YTD 2019 = 79.3%
2019 Avg Oct pax/day: 13,567
% of month's avg daily pax vs the same month in 2019 = 84.5%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2021
Dom: 3,200,216 / +179.8%
TB: 514,541 / +4,477.0%
Int'l: 281,207 / +1,703.0%
TTL: 3,995,964 / +241.3%

YWG added 3 more months of pax stats: https://www.waa.ca/assets/pages/Webs...-Q3-2023_1.pdf

Here's September 2023 and YTD:

Sector / Sep-22 / Sep-23 / % Change
Dom: 287,772 / 338,395 / +17.6%
TB: 11,444 / 24,975 / +118.2%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 299,216 / 363,370 / +21.4%

Sector / YTD 2022 / YTD 2023 / % Change
Dom: 2,015,450 / 2,790,225 / +38.4%
TB: 109,046 / 226,150 / +107.4%
Int'l: 36,279 / 119,626 / +229.7%
TTL: 2,160,775 / 3,136,001 / +45.1% - YWG is on pace for ~4.07M pax so neck & neck with YOW for #6

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Aug-23 / Sep-23 / % Change
Dom: 408,602 / 338,395 / -17.2%
TB: 25,144 / 24,975 / -0.7%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 433,746 / 363,370 / -16.2%
Avg/Day: 13,992 / 12,112 / -13.4%
% of month's avg daily pax vs full year 2019 (12,286 avg pax/day) = 98.6%
YTD TTL vs YTD 2019 = 90.9%
2019 Avg Sept pax/day: 12,159
% of month's avg daily pax vs the same month in 2019 = 99.6% - big difference between YWG and YOW here - shows how much Ottawa-Toronto day tripper traffic has been lost to Zoom/Teams.

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2021
Dom: 3,570,495 / +199.0%
TB: 282,010 / +1,235.2%
Int'l: 153,835 / +1,866.9%
TTL: 4,006,340 / +227.6%

It was never going to be cheaper than connecting in YYZ/YUL, to be honest. Non stop flights usually always come at a premium vs connections. The questions is, will others like you stand behind this flight. If they don't, the route won't last.

.....

I think it'll be fine, hopefully. We need this bit to go well to hopefully get even just once weekly year-round. I know a few regular business travelers (not business class, or whatever it's called, regular seats but paid for by their employer) and they've always said the flights to London and Dublin appeared full every time they went. We definitely have a healthy amount of that type of traveler; I'm just curious if it's enough for 3x weekly.

Nice thing is the direct flight tourists will be back this summer. They're my second-favourite (the city is still small enough that we end up interacting pretty often with tourists, they're obvious here, if only by accent, in a way they wouldn't stand out in larger cities). They're usually here on business but there's also lots of people in their 30s-40s who buy just because they didn't realize they could reach North America that quickly, check a continent off their list on a weekend. They're always really fun to chat with, second only to the van life people from the States.

It meets min connection time for LAX / LAS / SFO but completely misses SEA which departs at 17:55. There was a hefty number connections there as well, sometimes upwards of 30-40 per flight too.

I'm sure the times will get adjusted. Let's not forget NRT originally had horrendous timings when first loaded too.

From a crewing point of view, this, in addition to the YOW-YYZ cut, will make it very difficult/impossible for commuting crew to get to YYZ. Pilots may be able to access AC commuting privileges but cabin crew will be SOL unless they pay out of pocket to get on Porter/VIA or drive!

From a guest point of view, WS is basically handing guests in YUL/YOW over to AC/Porter/AT!

Are there a lot of WS pilots and FA's based in YUL?

There’s no WS base in YUL, but there are quite a few commuters from YUL and YOW that are based in YYZ.

I would assume that dramatically changes if/when Sunwings is integrated into WestJet.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next winter. WG have seasonal bases (both crew and aircraft) like YOW, YQB, YHZ and YWG. What happens to them I wonder?

I thought it would be interesting to compare distance to city centre of different Canadian airports and there are two that really stand out:

Calgary - 15.0 km
Edmonton - 29.6 km
Halifax - 30.4 km
Montreal - 16.9 km
Ottawa - 10.9 km
St. John's - 7.7km
Toronto - 20.2 km
Vancouver - 11.7 km
Winnipeg - 9.5 km

I've been to both Edmonton and Halifax airports and I remember feeling they were far out of town, but I didn't realize they were that far! Why are they such outliers? Surely there was some land closer to town, no?

I feel like American cities have their airports better integrated into the city, but not sure if that is really the case....or if it is a good thing to have such a big "dead space" in the middle of your urban fabric (kind of how MTL does).

Anyway, just thought it was interesting.

A lot of the closer airports listed already existed in some shape or form prior to the 1950s and 1960s. They just happened to be far enough away from their cores as to be viable for larger operations. Edmonton's city airport was far too close and too small.

The development of greenfield airports in the 1950s and 1960s was influenced by the very noisy jets of the era and expected future supersonic aircraft. Listen to a 727 or DC-8 takeoff versus a modern 737MAX/A320neo.

American cities have more viable smaller airports that were still large enough for modern domestic operations (Midway, LaGuardia, Love Field, etc.) and absolutely massive 1950s-era growth closer to cities (O'Hare, LAX).

Phoenix-Sky Harbor is unusual in the sense that it is a very large airport very close to the central city - a testament to Phoenix's late-era growth.

In Halifax's case, it is lumpy, Canadian Shield like topography and coastal fog that were issues.

Vegas's airport is also very close to the strip - but that's more of a testament to how the "core" shifted towards the airport than the airport was being close to the core.

Boston-Logan and Newark are two other examples of large airports close to their city centres. Plus, Reagan National (DCA) is only ~6km from the White House. Compare that to Dulles (IAD) which is around ~45km from the centre of Washington.

Yes, those DC-9s and 727s were noisy. Just watch any New York Mets home game from the 1980s/early 90's on YouTube and you will constantly hear planes flying overhead as Shea Stadium was directly underneath flights paths to LGA.

Victoria (YYJ) is another airport a significant distance from its city centre. According to Google Maps, 27.1km from YYJ to the Fairmont Empress Hotel.

Another poster mentioned it, YYJ is quite the drive away from the core. Anywho, though it’s difficult to calculate, due to there being infinite variables that could alter the results, the most important metric is the amount of time that it would take to reach the airport from the core.

I can't speak to the accuracy of this but been told by friends from Halifax that the clearing of the land for the airport actually created somewhat of a micro-climate that results in much more fog than was present previously. Though probably still less than other areas. It is an annoying airport if you have to rely on cabs.


San Diego's airport is also very close to the core and I know has hampered development to some degree.

The fog didn't stop St. John's from building their airport in one of the most fog-prone areas of the city. Bunch of ninny pilots who want to see the runway prior to landing on it. Not in Newfoundland!

Anyway, even with good visibility in Halifax, keeping it on the runway seems to be a challenge.

New Yorkers might disagree with the concept of Newark being anywhere close to New York City. :P

YYT was notorious for delays/cancellations due to fog. With upgrades to a CAT 3 ILS, fog delays are less common than in the past.
https://stjohnsairport.com/wp-conten...operations.pdf

True, but EWR is very close to Newark's downtown. :)

Travelled to Halifax this summer for a conference. Cab fare to downtown Halifax was around ~$65. The drive is not that long given the distance as most of the drive is on freeways.

Used Porter from YEG>YOW>EWR last week. Figured I'd steer clear of YYZ and give YOW a chance. Big mistake. There's no Nexus line at YOW U.S. security screening and there was only one security line open. 45 minutes to get through security and the line wasn't very long. There was a sign saying that there was a trial in progress and thanked us for our patience. I can unequivocally state that the trial was a failure. Came back through YYZ and the Nexus line was a breeze.

I don't doubt this for a second. I've flown into and out of Halifax Stanfield enough to know the real meaning of "zero visibility." :rolleyes:

The airport in Halifax should really be at Shearwater.

I quite like the airport in San Diego. I've been there a couple of times. Very convenient.

According to YYT website, local experts had suggested Cochrane Pond (just east of Galway today) as a better site, but the Canadian Government (it was primarily a RCAF base) selected Torbay.

Maybe the selected land didn't need as much work. It took them less then a year to build it.

At the moment a dedicated lane isn't needed. In the past, when numbers have warranted it, they would offer front-of-the-line treatment to NEXUS program members.

Having gone through there 16 times so far this year, it's never taken me more than 10-15 minutes to go through security and US CBP preclearance. And that's without any FOL treatment. 15 min is a bad day when trapped behind a family with strollers etc.

Whatever that "trial" was caused you about a 3-4-fold increase in time. I'm not aware of that "trial" and I went through there 2 weeks ago, also to Newark.

Your experience is lightyears away from typical, FWIW. It's usually comically fast to go through there.

FWIW, YQM is ideally situated in the greater Moncton area, only 7.5 km from Moncton city hall, and on the SE corner of the TCH/Highway 15 interchange. I live in the west end of the city, and, travelling by freeway, can be at the terminal in no more than 12-15 minutes.

Romeo LeBlanc International is fully integrated with the the remainder of the city, and is surrounded by a growing air industrial park. It may not have the stature of the larger airports in the country, but, has a bright future.

Good to hear that my experience was an anomaly. I have no idea what the "trial" was either as the signs didn't elaborate. Regardless, it's this type of experience which will sour travellers from using particular airports.

I actually visited Ottawa last month and unfortunately on my departure had about a 45 minute wait to go through security. There was only one security lane open and this was at a busy time of the day. Funny enough, former PC leader Andrew Scheer was a couple spots behind me in line and did not look pleased.

So after everything that was said, it ended up being that.

YYC-BCN/EDI/FCO get 1x weekly additional frequency each, based on the official press release. It seems WS wants to keep some slack in the 787 S24 schedules, just like S23.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...ansion-across1

I used the word "based" as in "living". Indeed, if there are that many of them living in Montreal, their commute will definitely suck from now on.

Someone on airliners brought up a good point as well. Will WS all but decimating their network in the east, and now relaunching TATL from the Maritimes, they will have almost no feed for these flights. YYZ TATL at least has significant O&D, so that should work, but one wonders if the YHZ/YYT TATL flights will last with little to no feed.

One word: Tourism.

Europeans want to visit Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and Newfoundland (New Brunswick is more questionable, lol j/k)

https://i.postimg.cc/t93Sby2h/cabot.png
https://twitter.com/ukgolfguy/status...82519923818616

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fl4iecvX...jpg&name=small