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The ATX Jul 7, 2011 2:40 AM
I really don't care about the politics of California because I don't live there. I remember when Prop 8 was national news, but I didn't even know that it passed until I recently googled it because it became a topic in this thread. I can easily understand and empathize with gay people who are so passionate about it. But my only concern is here is economic development and architecture.

wwmiv Jul 7, 2011 8:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill Country (Post 5339887)
I really don't care about the politics of California because I don't live there. I remember when Prop 8 was national news, but I didn't even know that it passed until I recently googled it because it became a topic in this thread. I can easily understand and empathize with gay people who are so passionate about it. But my only concern is here is economic development and architecture.
Referred to Martin Luther King's Letter from Birmingham Jail.

migol24 Jul 7, 2011 8:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv (Post 5340121)
Referred to Martin Luther King's Letter from Birmingham Jail.
did you mean to quote cvalkan? it would seem to make more sense after having read the letter and cvalkan's post.

wwmiv Jul 7, 2011 9:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by migol24 (Post 5340124)
did you mean to quote cvalkan? it would seem to make more sense after having read the letter and cvalkan's post.

Nope. I meant to quote Hill Country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill Country
I really don't care about the politics of California because I don't live there. I remember when Prop 8 was national news, but I didn't even know that it passed until I recently googled it because it became a topic in this thread. I can easily understand and empathize with gay people who are so passionate about it. But my only concern is here is economic development and architecture.

To which these quotes most apply:

Letter from Birmingham Jail:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Luther King
We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people.
Strength in Love:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Luther King,
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

MichaelB Jul 7, 2011 6:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv (Post 5340125)
Nope. I meant to quote Hill Country.




To which these quotes most apply:

Letter from Birmingham Jail:


Strength in Love:
thank you. Praise hands. We all need someone to speak up for us some days.



Noted in Chronicle that said mogul apologized for his donations and offered perks to GLBT orgs. Well, at least he is smart enough to realize his actions were not good business. "Love the sinner , hate the sin"? Still irritates me, but at least maybe he would not use money gained here to oppress "a" driving force of this population. ( at least publicly ) Mixed feelings remain, with hope for resolution.

I am still very happy this has come to light and an issue has been made of it. I am also happy the Lorenz, who has been a friend of the gay community realized the need to find resolution and this was an issue for him as well.


I'll get back to fighting about the building: Still think it;s a "new modern generic". But, my, it's so big.

JAM Jul 7, 2011 10:53 PM
Mogul can't have an impact on same sex marriage in Texas so it really doesn't matter what he thinks. On the other hand, the piece of property that he wants to build on needs improvement and a lot of Austinites want to see it go up. Austinites also want the economic benefit that it will bring to the community. The gay community could be doing themselves a dis-service by fighting this project. Who knows.... people who are on the fence of gay marriage might decide to go towards the side of Mogul should they get this project taken away from them. Mogul is just one guy and can't even vote in Texas let alone Austin, who cares what his beliefs are. Isn't he entitled to his beliefs just as much as anyone?

Spaceman Jul 7, 2011 11:51 PM
I agree....The hotel industry has always been friendly to people with diverse beliefs and lifestyles...

The ATX Jul 8, 2011 12:33 AM
It wouldn't be a very good business model for someone to be in the lodging business and not be as welcoming to as many people as possible.

cvalkan Jul 8, 2011 4:03 AM
Even though I wasn't the one being replied to, I want to emphasize that I wasn't suggesting being quiet or indifferent in the face of wrong. Fight it, but given limited resources, one has to make tactical decisions about how most effectively to do so. I could be wrong about how to do that in this case.

BevoLJ Jul 8, 2011 6:11 AM
I am glad that the guy mentioned in the Chronicle article kinda cleared up some of that. It also said this was going to be trying to get LEED Gold cert.

That this one will be going for LEED Gold and that it will be providing 1k rooms to help pay for the Waller Creek I really want it to be built.

How does that extra tax work? The one for the creek project? Does all those rooms help pay for it or is it by the property tax?

Myomi Jul 8, 2011 7:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BevoLJ (Post 5341340)
I am glad that the guy mentioned in the Chronicle article kinda cleared up some of that. It also said this was going to be trying to get LEED Gold cert.

That this one will be going for LEED Gold and that it will be providing 1k rooms to help pay for the Waller Creek I really want it to be built.

How does that extra tax work? The one for the creek project? Does all those rooms help pay for it or is it by the property tax?
This was discussed in the Waller Creek discussion: 100 percent of the Austin property tax and 50% of the Travis County property tax will go towards Waller Creek according to the TIF district structure. Essentially, that is 0.69 percent of total value of the property going to pay for the Waller Creek project. If the estimates of a $350 million dollar hotel are true, that would be about $2.4 million a year for paying off the project. Not too shabby...

As for the hotel occupancy tax, I am not sure exactly how that would work. Of the total 15 percent tax rate on hotel rooms, 6 percent goes to the state and probably wouldn't be used to fund the project. The 9 percent Austin part might be used for the project, but the TIF doesn't require it. At least that is my understanding of the issue.

LoneStarMike Jul 8, 2011 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myomi (Post 5341366)
As for the hotel occupancy tax, I am not sure exactly how that would work. Of the total 15 percent tax rate on hotel rooms, 6 percent goes to the state and probably wouldn't be used to fund the project. The 9 percent Austin part might be used for the project, but the TIF doesn't require it. At least that is my understanding of the issue.
It's my understanding that of the 9% that goes to to the city, 4.5% goes to the Convention Center Fund; 2% to the Venue Project Fund; 1.45% for Tourism & Promotion; and 1.05% for Cultural Arts. It's part of the Venue Project Fund that helps pay for the Waller Creek Project, I think.

See the Austin City Code about Hotel Occupancy Taxes:

http://www.artsnet.org/arttax/sample.../austinLDG.pdf


Quote:
§ 11-2-15 USE OF REVENUE.
(A) The funds deposited in the Venue Project Fund may only be used for
the following purposes:
(1) to reimburse or pay the costs of planning, acquiring, establishing,
developing, constructing, or renovating the Convention Center/Waller Creek
Project;
(2) to pay the principal, interest, reserves, and other cost relating to
bonds or other obligations issued by the City for the Convention Center/Waller
Creek Project, or bonds issued to refund the obligations; or
(3) to pay the costs of operating or maintaining the project.
Somewhere in one of the city budgets, it also mentioned that hotel occupancy taxes make up 60% of the Convention Center's revenue.

wwmiv Jul 8, 2011 1:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvalkan (Post 5341197)
Even though I wasn't the one being replied to, I want to emphasize that I wasn't suggesting being quiet or indifferent in the face of wrong. Fight it, but given limited resources, one has to make tactical decisions about how most effectively to do so. I could be wrong about how to do that in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM (Post 5340885)
Mogul can't have an impact on same sex marriage in Texas so it really doesn't matter what he thinks. On the other hand, the piece of property that he wants to build on needs improvement and a lot of Austinites want to see it go up. Austinites also want the economic benefit that it will bring to the community. The gay community could be doing themselves a dis-service by fighting this project. Who knows.... people who are on the fence of gay marriage might decide to go towards the side of Mogul should they get this project taken away from them. Mogul is just one guy and can't even vote in Texas let alone Austin, who cares what his beliefs are. Isn't he entitled to his beliefs just as much as anyone?
I do, after all, want the hotel built:

Quote:
I generally agree with you on the substance (as a young gay man myself), but I still think it should be built. Daddy has enough money already to spend making sure that Prop 8 clones get passed everywhere, and this isn't going to change that. As it is anyway, demographic changes are moving the politics of this in our favor so quickly as to render his opposition practically pointless. Also, your life in Texas can't get any worse as Texas already has a constitutional amendment banning both gay marriage and any institution remotely resembling gay marriage. Anyway, apart from marriage the guy seems to be fine with gays afaik.

BevoLJ Jul 8, 2011 4:36 PM
I really wonder how tall this hotel will be. Wiki has a page for "Tallest Hotels in the World" and this could easily be in the top 20. There is even one hotel in the top 10 that is only 52 stories. It will easily be in the top 10 in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

Code:
Rank        Building                        City                Height                Floors       
1=        Emirates Park Tower 1[A]        Dubai                1,296 ft        77
1=        Emirates Park Tower 2[A]        Dubai                1,296 ft        77
3        Rose Rayhaan by Rotana                Dubai                1,092 ft        72
4        Burj Al Arab                        Dubai                1,060 ft        60
5        Jumeirah Emirates Towers Hotel        Dubai                1,014 ft        56
6        The Address Downtown                Dubai                1,004 ft        63
7        Baiyoke Tower II                Bangkok                997 ft                85
8        The Cullinan South Tower        Hong Kong        886 ft                68
9        Grand Lisboa                        Macau                846 ft                52
10        Lanko·Grand Hyatt Hotel                Chongqing        846 ft                63
11        State Tower                        Bangkok                810 ft                63
12        Centara Grand Hotel                Bangkok                771 ft                57
13        Oasis Skyway Garden Hotel        Shanghai        741 ft                52
14        JR Central Hotel Tower                Nagoya                741 ft                53
15        Swissôtel The Stamford                Singapore        741 ft                73
16        Renaissance Center                Detroit                727 ft                73
17        Westin Peachtree Plaza Hotel        Atlanta                723 ft                73       
18        Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower I        Jakarta                696 ft                48
19        Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower II        Jakarta                696 ft                48
20        Four Seasons        New York        New York City        682 ft                52
21        Sofitel Jin Jiang                Shanghai        679 ft                47
22        Four Seasons Hotel                Hong Kong        673 ft                55
23        Tower A Berjaya Times Square        Kuala Lumpur        666 ft                48
24        Renaissance Hotel Tianjin        Tianjin                666 ft                48
25        Yuanyang Building                Dalian                659 ft                83
26        Royal Mediterranean Hotel        Guangzhou        659 ft                48
27        Radisson Hotel New World        Shanghai        656 ft                46       
28        Dolton Hotel Changsha                Changsha        656 ft                51
29        Shangri-La Hotel (Dubai)        Dubai                656 ft                43
30        Hotel Ukraina                        Moscow                650 ft                34

The ATX Jul 8, 2011 5:35 PM
Depending on the height of the spire, it could be the 4th tallest in the U.S.

migol24 Jul 8, 2011 5:57 PM
i personally don't think its gonna be any bigger than 800'. but who knows?

The ATX Jul 8, 2011 6:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by migol24 (Post 5341752)
i personally don't think its gonna be any bigger than 800'. but who knows?
Based on the redering 650' seems possible.

hookem Jul 8, 2011 6:27 PM
Dang, Austin could have both the tallest residential building and the tallest hotel in Texas. Who would have ever predicted that?

The ATX Jul 8, 2011 7:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hookem (Post 5341789)
Dang, Austin could have both the tallest residential building and the tallest hotel in Texas. Who would have ever predicted that?
It would also be true for East of the Mississippi.

GoldenBoot Jul 8, 2011 8:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BevoLJ (Post 5341667)
I really wonder how tall this hotel will be. Wiki has a page for "Tallest Hotels in the World" and this could easily be in the top 20. There is even one hotel in the top 10 that is only 52 stories. It will easily be in the top 10 in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

Code:
Rank        Building                        City                Height                Floors       
1=        Emirates Park Tower 1[A]        Dubai                1,296 ft        77
1=        Emirates Park Tower 2[A]        Dubai                1,296 ft        77
3        Rose Rayhaan by Rotana                Dubai                1,092 ft        72
4        Burj Al Arab                        Dubai                1,060 ft        60
5        Jumeirah Emirates Towers Hotel        Dubai                1,014 ft        56
6        The Address Downtown                Dubai                1,004 ft        63
7        Baiyoke Tower II                Bangkok                997 ft                85
8        The Cullinan South Tower        Hong Kong        886 ft                68
9        Grand Lisboa                        Macau                846 ft                52
10        Lanko·Grand Hyatt Hotel                Chongqing        846 ft                63
11        State Tower                        Bangkok                810 ft                63
12        Centara Grand Hotel                Bangkok                771 ft                57
13        Oasis Skyway Garden Hotel        Shanghai        741 ft                52
14        JR Central Hotel Tower                Nagoya                741 ft                53
15        Swissôtel The Stamford                Singapore        741 ft                73
16        Renaissance Center                Detroit                727 ft                73
17        Westin Peachtree Plaza Hotel        Atlanta                723 ft                73       
18        Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower I        Jakarta                696 ft                48
19        Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower II        Jakarta                696 ft                48
20        Four Seasons        New York        New York City        682 ft                52
21        Sofitel Jin Jiang                Shanghai        679 ft                47
22        Four Seasons Hotel                Hong Kong        673 ft                55
23        Tower A Berjaya Times Square        Kuala Lumpur        666 ft                48
24        Renaissance Hotel Tianjin        Tianjin                666 ft                48
25        Yuanyang Building                Dalian                659 ft                83
26        Royal Mediterranean Hotel        Guangzhou        659 ft                48
27        Radisson Hotel New World        Shanghai        656 ft                46       
28        Dolton Hotel Changsha                Changsha        656 ft                51
29        Shangri-La Hotel (Dubai)        Dubai                656 ft                43
30        Hotel Ukraina                        Moscow                650 ft                34

Hold on, gentlemen. Several of these buildings are mixed-use towers. Is there a listing of single-use (hotel) towers?


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