I wasn't playing a numbers game--merely pointing out that their completed restoration is far from unimaginative. Nor is their home in the restored American Can HQ on Hughson. As for the lack of train service at the station--it's abandonment is an issue I'd recommend you take up with CN, it's previous owner. Headquarters is in Montreal, I'm sure they'd appreciate the call.

I actually understand why people are disappointed in LIUNA--but when you deny that a project like LIUNA station has been a success, it doesn't lend credence to your arguments--it just makes you look blind.

That's because it's a banquet center :)

1 good project doesn't get someone off the hook for acting like thugs and holding downtown and the city hostage in a sole effort to fatten their pockets with public money. Let's make a deal. I'll call CN for realcity. You pay my portion of public money to LIUNA to wreck these buldings (since you seem to love their idea so much).

Could we forget about the LIUNA thing and focus on retail news again? Or at least how awesome our shopping arcades and such are? It pains me to go into Right House and see all the potential being wasted. Other downtowns would kill for a building like we have here. Thankfully it's not abandoned... yet.

Actually I've never thought the plan to convert the existing Lister into Class A office space was a good one--I repeat, the building, as designed, has an awkward floor plate and weird ceiling heights. Proper Class A space would require a demo and rebuild--and we've been down that road and back again. Lister as-is lends itself to mixed use--I think we all agree on that. This has nothing to do with me loving LIUNA's plans--it has to do with making your arguments balanced--otherwise they don't hold water.

matt602, I'd be curious to hear what your ideas for The Right House are. I am old enough to BARELY remember when it was a department store--and have only slightly clearer memories of it's reopening around 1985 as Park Place. It opened with two levels of upscale retail and very quickly faltered. It failed 20 years ago as a retail complex--and I think it would be stretch to suggest that the retail market has improved vis-a-vis 1985. I'm not trying to be a snot-rag, just genuinely wondering what you think would work in there. What is it's leasing situation currently? Are the spaces currently leased to non-retail entities or are most vacant?

I also recall being taken through Lister's Arcade years ago when it was still open, and the majority of it's spaces were filled. I'm not saying these spaces don't have a future--but what's your key to drive traffic into these spaces? The Connaught space, assuming it returns to hotel use, is a far easier sell. Those spaces could easily be filled (as they were prior to closure) with ancillary hotel functions, business centers, coffee shops, hair salons, tailor shops, travel agents, etc.

Someone mentioned The Royal York earlier. To the best of my knowledge the Arcade on the main floor was created during the hotel's expansion in the late 1950s, and the lower level/PATH arcade is a far more recent addition.

I honestly couldn't say. I've come to the conclusion that Hamilton is very weird as far as retail goes. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. Some of it might work in one end of the city, where in another end it fails dramatically. I'd love to see 2 full levels of retail with residential or more commercial space above in the Right House, but I agree that Hamilton most likely isn't in the right state to support it. Possibly at some point down the line, but certainly not now.

I do know that we need to hold onto the Right House no matter what happens. It will have it's day again, I just couldn't say when or why.

The Arcade of The Royal York is actually the lower level of the hotel, the level connected with the Toronto PATH system, and has been an element of the hotel since it opened in 1929. It features an underground passage connecting the Arcade to the Arrivals area of Union Station, a feature welcomed whole-heartedly by rail passengers of the 1930's. While the arcade has been renovated several times, many of the original fixtures remain, and the passage to Union Station has remained relatively unchanged.

I can't speak for Matt, but I know that I'm of the opinion that we need to save and preserve these spaces in the belief that as downtown turns the corner, they will become attractive once again for retail. Cities like Boston, Toronto etc...have neat little shopping concourses like this in their downtowns.
Right now I don't think these spaces can do much more than keep them clean, reno'd and open for business...it's kind of a holding pattern until something happens in the downtown retail market. A big anchor locating on King, Jackson Sq landing a few major retailers etc....once the momentum gets going I think you'll see these spaces become attractive again for a couple of reasons. 1. They are so unique and historic. 2. They offering 'mini-mall' experiences which is nice in our climate. I can see a mix of service industries along with retail. But, just to be clear, I don't expect these things to fill up tomrorow or next year. But someday I believe it can and will happen.
I know I'm personally contuing to spend all of my 'disposable' income (I hate that phrase) downtown as a small way of helping the process along.

I have my own taxes to pay down here--perhaps that should exclude me from the discussion as has been suggested before? I don't pay my taxes to the City of Windsor--but if I did I could engage you in a conversation about deals they've made that have resulted in them being responsible for leasing space in the new downtown Chrysler HQ that they have no need for or selling the existing Convention Center to St. Clair College for $1--does that mean St. Clair is a money hungry leach like McMaster? Do the jobs and bodies these projects brought downtown justify the cost? The City was fixing to donate a huge chunk of land to the U of W to establish itself downtown--is that corporate welfare? Firstly, the investment of public dollars into private and para-public projects to stimulate development in urban areas is not unique to Hamilton. Secondly, LIUNA, whether you care to admit it or not, is not the lone recipient of municipal goodwill. You tax dollars have funded everything from massive projects to the residential development loan program. Those are private projects living off your dime. I understand your frustration at the lack of progress at Lister--it's been WAY too long. How do you honestly feel about the current proposal that would have the city buy and renovate the building? Is that somehow better given that the building would transfer to public hands?

I've made it quite clear before that I'm a HUGE fan of properly invested public money to help spur revitalization. I'd love to take 75% of the money used to fund sprawl and redirect it to urban cities in Ontario.
The downtown loan program here is an absolute no-brainer. it's a loan that gets repaid. The city has leveraded close to $1 billion in downtown construction by loaning something in the area of $50 million dollars.
I'm a huge fan of well-planned, well-thought out investments. Thats why I push LRT so hard. The highway folks have had their day with Red Hill, Linc and others. I'd love to balance the system by building LRT and new streetcars.
What LIUNA has done is plain wrong...aided by DiIanni of course. The downtown loan program is up front and everyone knows what the projects are and the plan of action. These backroom deals among buddies is disgusting.
The only reason I can stomach the newest idea is because I'd rather have the city own this building than LIUNA. At least in the future we could spend public money on it properly and not always be held hostage by LIUNA trying to steal millions of extra dollars for their own pockets everytime something needs to be repaired in the building.
Hope that helps clarify my position.

Folks, this is a general discussion thread for retail news in Hamilton. The last few posts have drifted way off topic, either accidentally or deliberately.

• there is a thread for discussion on Hamilton taxes in the Business Politics and Economy section.
• there is also a discussion on Lister in the Downtown thread.
• discussions about other cities belong in either their own SSP or in the appropriate regional section.
• namecalling belongs nowhere.

There is a cast of usual suspects who seem determined to provoke rather than discuss, and they have been busy at work this weekend. I don't need to list of their tags, it's pretty obvious whp they are. I suggest those who do not keep to the thread topic, or those simply interested in provocation be completely ignored in the thread. Also, personal attacks, insults, and provocations can be reported to moderators by simply clicking on the "report post" link in the top right corner of the offending post (you'll only see the link if you are logged into the SSP). I have found this tool quite useful in the past.

Hopefully relevant discussion will return once the provokers get the message, either on their own, or through censure from the moderators.

Since this store started this thread, I thought that you should see a picture of it finished. By the way, the store is not in Stoney Creek it is in old Hamilton.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1646/img4448hs0.jpg

looks beautiful.

^ lol what a joke. same schlock as everywhere just a different logo over the door.

someone mentioned Hamilton's retail is weird... I agree.

Hamilton loves it's Wal*Mart but won't take transit because that means you're 'poor'.

Hamiltonians will support high-end stores in other cities but not in their own city.

Hamiltonians will travel 300 km to an outlet mall somewhere in PA, or NY to save $3 on a pair of jeans.

Furthermore, those said pair of jeans would be considered 'too junky' in our local market and wouldn't sell.

haha..so true.
we are weird!

it's called self-loathing.

Stucco lovers rejoice!

For the future retail at Ferguson/Barton. Rumour is it'll be Wal-Mart and/or Canadian Tire.....

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...6/IMG_2808.jpg

Well now that Eatons has closed, and the others closed like Zellers etc in the downtown area, they need more larger retail in that area. And that will bring more jobs. :)