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-   -   [Surrey] Park George | 35 + 39 fl | U/C (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235058)

Cypherus Mar 3, 2019 11:05 PM

Development looks great at night. I know it does look a little suburban, but this is really the way modern Urbanization is going.

e-clam9 Mar 4, 2019 3:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cypherus (Post 8493138)

Development looks great at night. I know it does look a little suburban, but this is really the way of modern Urbanization is going. Love how 3CP is a dwarfed in the background. Must be a new marketing thing too....

Marketing photo is always nicer than reality.... :haha:

EhJay Mar 4, 2019 4:41 AM

Isn't that Georgetown instead of PG?

Nites Mar 4, 2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EhJay (Post 8493393)
Isn't that Georgetown instead of PG?

Ya it's Georgetown. The scaling of those towers look completely off if you compare them to 3CP lol. It looks like the tallest tower is near 250m.

e-clam9 Mar 5, 2019 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skymaster (Post 8493489)
Ya it's Georgetown. The scaling of those towers look completely off if you compare them to 3CP lol. It looks like the tallest tower is near 250m.

It is much more expensive to build upper levels than lower levels. With the dropping in general market pricing, there is less incentive for developers to building very tall building. I guess.

fredinno Mar 5, 2019 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-clam9 (Post 8494737)
It is much more expensive to build upper levels than lower levels. With the dropping in general market pricing, there is less incentive for developers to building very tall building. I guess.

Probably more FSR limitations, the building started construction below the slowdown.

officedweller Mar 12, 2019 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EhJay (Post 8459211)
Wouldn't that be up to the strata councils as opposed to concord? It's an interesting proposal and hopefully it goes through.

Here's another case I came across where an oral agreement to help pay for maintaining Keefer Steps in Vancouver was upheld against the Firenze strata corporation:

Quote:

Interville Development Limited Partnership v. Strata Plan BCS2313

CONTRACTS — Enforcement — Validity • REAL PROPERTY — Condominiums — Strata corporations — Developer of strata project entering oral cost sharing agreement with strata corporation at time of corporation’s creation but before sale of first strata lot — Court finding at time oral contract was made, developer had authority to enter into contract on behalf of strata corporation, s. 20 of Strata Property requiring unanimous approval by strata members not then applying, and contract binding and enforceable as against strata corporation.

The plaintiff was the owner/developer of a strata project, the International Village of Vancouver ["IVV"]. The project included four stratified groups of towers. The defendant was the strata corporation for one group, the "Firenze". The parties’ formal costs sharing agreement ["CSA"] stipulated that "upon stratification", IVV would "cause the strata corporation formed as a result thereof to expressly agree" to assume IVV’s obligations as they related to the lot from which the strata lots were created. There was no written contract under which the defendant agreed to indemnify IVV for a proportionate share of the costs IVV had to pay in relation to a pedestrian thoroughfare, the Keefer Steps, connecting IVV to downtown Vancouver. However, the plaintiff claimed there was a binding non-written agreement [the "oral contract"] to this effect formed when the defendant came into existence in 2007. The defendant had indemnified IVV for such costs by paying the invoices IVV rendered from time to time but ceased doing so in 2013 when it discovered there was no written contract. IVV sued for payment allegedly owed by the defendant under the oral contract. Held, action allowed. The central issue was whether the evidence supported the conclusion that IVV, which had the authority to bind the defendant strata corporation at the material time, actually did so. The parties’ CSA did not require a written assumption with respect to the Keefer Steps costs; even if there were such a requirement, that did not amount to a condition precedent or even an impediment to the defendant corporation agreeing, through less formal means and as between it and IVV, to assume liability for a portion of those costs. The oral agreement came into existence between the defendant’s creation in 2007 and the sale of the first strata lot, a period when the defendant was controlled by the plaintiff and during which the agreement did not require the unanimous approval by special resolution of unit owners under s. 20 of the Strata Property Act. The conclusion was inescapable that during this period, the parties’ common intention was to enter into the oral agreement relied on by IVV. The agreement could not be impugned for want of consideration. Consideration flowing to a third party may be valid consideration as between the parties to a contract. Here, IVV caused the defendant to come into existence and agreed to sell the units in the Firenze to the defendant’s members in the context of the development as a whole, including the defendant’s agreement to assume liability for a proportionate share of the Keefer Steps costs. The agreement was enforceable without any enquiry into whether the defendant, as a distinct legal entity, itself benefitted by the sale of the units to its members. In the result, the defendant was found legally obligated to pay its portion of the Keefer Steps costs, as invoiced by IVV from time to time.
https://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt...SC0112cor1.htm

EhJay Apr 12, 2019 11:47 PM

Park George II sales start tomorrow.

e-clam9 Apr 13, 2019 7:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EhJay (Post 8538837)
Park George II sales start tomorrow.

Park George is high quality. I think the new speculator and satellite family tax stopped many investors :( If you own more than 2 residential units (including your own primary unit), it applies to 3rd and more units even if they are rented out.

Getting a good profit by selling a pre-sales contract couple years later is also out of the window for now.

Furthermore, BC only allows a very small rent increase this year.......

It is a good time for real users to get into this market. More incentives and it is almost a buyer market.

Good luck.

Cypherus Apr 15, 2019 2:59 PM

^The potential for profit is still higher than the lowly speculator tax you may have to pay. Also, if you report sufficient income in BC, then you will get a rebate on that tax even if you flip the property. If you simply hold the property after closing for a year or two and rent it out, then the tax will not apply - even to a non-resident. The purpose of the tax is to inhibit speculation by permanent-resident's who are not reporting income in Canada from acting as nominees for wealthier non-resident family members and buying /selling property on their behalf. You can still do this practice - just have to pay now.

You can still assign presale contracts. They just get added into a provincial registry. Some developers have stopped the practice weeks before closing. The point was to unveil the shadow flipping market and ensure people are reporting their capital gains on the contracts from flipping. If you report the income or gain, there is nothing nefarious about presale contract flipping.

e-clam9 Apr 16, 2019 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cypherus (Post 8540514)
^The potential for profit is still higher than the lowly speculator tax you may have to pay. Also, if you report sufficient income in BC, then you will get a rebate on that tax even if you flip the property. If you simply hold the property after closing for a year or two and rent it out, then the tax will not apply - even to a non-resident. T


My understanding is that. For a local Canadian BC resident, the speculation tax does not apply to the primary property which is your primary resident. For the 1st rental unit, you also don't pay the speculation tax IF you rent it out more than 6 months per year. For the 3rd and all other units you own, you MUST pay speculation tax even if you rent them out or not.

For a non-local BC resident (Canadian or not), if they (i.e. all owners of the property) report at least 50% of all their world wide and local income in BC, then it is treated like the above case. If not, then their first property must pay speculation tax even if his/her spouse and children live there. All other properties they own must pay speculation tax. (I think it makes senses because it is not fair that their no-income spouse and children are enjoying free health care, school, university, police, fire stations, and many other BC services but not paying income tax or pay very little in BC.)

Local BC Canadian owners pay 0.5% while all others type of owners pay 2% of the property value each year for speculation tax. This is on top of the normal property tax.

There is a small loop hole. The speculation tax only applies to the owner who still own the property on Dec 31st of the year. So if you sell the property on Dec 30th, then new owner pays the speculation tax for the whole year !! It means, if you are a buyer of a rental unit, you may not want to buy close to the end of the year :haha:

Please correct me if I am wrong.

For pre-sales contract re-assignment, I agree that you can avoid the above tax if you can sell your contract before the building is done. Can you make a lot of profit by doing so? I can't tell you. I don't have the gut to predict future. But it is a fact that all new condo development takes a lot of more days and months to sell..... :P The sign said Park George One is 90% sold since last summer. It is up to you to believe it or not :)

fredinno Apr 16, 2019 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-clam9 (Post 8541574)
My understanding is that. For a local Canadian BC resident, the speculation tax does not apply to the primary property which is your primary resident. For the 1st rental unit, you also don't pay the speculation tax IF you rent it out more than 6 months per year. For the 3rd and all other units you own, you MUST pay speculation tax even if you rent them out or not.

For a non-local BC resident (Canadian or not), if they (i.e. all owners of the property) report at least 50% of all their world wide and local income in BC, then it is treated like the above case. If not, then their first property must pay speculation tax even if his/her spouse and children live there. All other properties they own must pay speculation tax. (I think it makes senses because it is not fair that their no-income spouse and children are enjoying free health care, school, university, police, fire stations, and many other BC services but not paying income tax or pay very little in BC.)

Local BC Canadian owners pay 0.5% while all others type of owners pay 2% of the property value each year for speculation tax. This is on top of the normal property tax.

There is a small loop hole. The speculation tax only applies to the owner who still own the property on Dec 31st of the year. So if you sell the property on Dec 30th, then new owner pays the speculation tax for the whole year !! It means, if you are a buyer of a rental unit, you may not want to buy close to the end of the year :haha:

Please correct me if I am wrong.

For pre-sales contract re-assignment, I agree that you can avoid the above tax if you can sell your contract before the building is done. Can you make a lot of profit by doing so? I can't tell you. I don't have the gut to predict future. But it is a fact that all new condo development takes a lot of more days and months to sell..... :P The sign said Park George One is 90% sold since last summer. It is up to you to believe it or not :)

Wait, so why do people have to pay the tax for more than 1 extra residence even if they rent it out?

GMasterAres Apr 16, 2019 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-clam9 (Post 8541574)
My understanding is that. For a local Canadian BC resident, the speculation tax does not apply to the primary property which is your primary resident. For the 1st rental unit, you also don't pay the speculation tax IF you rent it out more than 6 months per year. For the 3rd and all other units you own, you MUST pay speculation tax even if you rent them out or not.

Can you link to where you actually saw this on the BC Government site? I have done a lot of looking and digging and the only reference to exemptions for units that are rented states:

Quote:

Owners of homes occupied by a renter or by family or other non-arm's-length persons for at least six months of the year in increments of one month or more at a time may be exempt (three months for 2018). For the owner to be eligible for the exemption, tenancy requirements must be met. Review these requirements and the tenancy examples before completing the declaration to ensure the correct requirements are met.
I can't find anything that sets limits on count or how many. So based on what I see, there is no reason why you would need to pay speculation tax if you own 3 or 100 units as long as they are all rented out.

I would also find it super hard to believe this is actually a thing given rental buildings. If I am the owner of a rental building, I'm not speculating, but I have way more than 2 units so now I get extra taxed for providing a key regional need? I'd find that hard to believe.

I stand to be corrected but please provide the actual link to where you got this idea from as I'm curious. :)

Quote:

For a non-local BC resident (Canadian or not), if they (i.e. all owners of the property) report at least 50% of all their world wide and local income in BC, then it is treated like the above case. If not, then their first property must pay speculation tax even if his/her spouse and children live there. All other properties they own must pay speculation tax. (I think it makes senses because it is not fair that their no-income spouse and children are enjoying free health care, school, university, police, fire stations, and many other BC services but not paying income tax or pay very little in BC.)
This is slightly incorrect. It isn't BC specific, it is Canadian income tax specific. To be a satellite family you have to report less than 50% of your total household income outside Canada. So if the family declares 100% of their income in Alberta, they would not be a satellite family because 100% of the income would still be declared in Canada.

The satellite family deal only applies to international income, at least from what I read on the POB website. I don't see any mention of BC income tax anywhere only Canadian income tax.

Quote:

There is a small loop hole. The speculation tax only applies to the owner who still own the property on Dec 31st of the year. So if you sell the property on Dec 30th, then new owner pays the speculation tax for the whole year !! It means, if you are a buyer of a rental unit, you may not want to buy close to the end of the year :haha:

Please correct me if I am wrong.
No different than property tax. If you buy a house a day before property tax is levied against a property, you get hit with the bill yourself pretty close to needing to pay. Ultimately as a buyer you're going to have to pay it no matter what, just comes down to when.

And if the tax is levied against a property before it is sold, the owner must clear all levies to sell the property aka you can't close a sale on a property with taxes owing.

Quote:

For pre-sales contract re-assignment, I agree that you can avoid the above tax if you can sell your contract before the building is done. Can you make a lot of profit by doing so? I can't tell you. I don't have the gut to predict future. But it is a fact that all new condo development takes a lot of more days and months to sell..... :P The sign said Park George One is 90% sold since last summer. It is up to you to believe it or not :)
True but pre-sales contracts are governed then by capital gains tax so you get taxed a different way. There isn't much we can do if people don't claim it against their tax but that would be considered tax fraud though and be a whole different discussion.

e-clam9 Apr 17, 2019 2:59 AM

I am sorry if I understand it incorrectly. This is why I asked for correction. Thanks for more info. I am also very puzzled about the 3rd property rule.

I also can't find the 3rd property rules in gov web site. I learnt these rules from agents, magazines, friends, and gov sites. Someone may have confused about the $2000 tax credit for vacant property. Every BC local Canadian resident gets a $2000 tax credit for vacant property. For your first empty property, you only pay 0.5% speculation tax on the value above $400K of your property (after applying this $2000 credit). For your 3rd and more vacant properties, you pay 0.5% of the entire value of the property.

It makes sense to me that if all your rental units are rented out 6 months or more per year, then they should all be exempted from this tax. I need to triple confirm it again. Last week, my agent friend still scared me about this tax. I wonder if I know more than him.... :)

Lexus Apr 19, 2019 11:30 PM

I know it a wrong thread but this is what Park George II actually is
My photos 2019-04-18
Also short video
https://www.flickr.com/photos/143443...posted-public/

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d6b199f6_h.jpgUntitled by Dmytro Zhukovets, on Flickr

e-clam9 Apr 20, 2019 4:50 AM

Your photo is the Park George II marketing banner at the Park Boulevard site.

Park George I and II site is behind the Park Ave East condo and it has not started yet.

Don't be confused :)

officedweller May 27, 2019 9:12 PM

Off topic - but going back to the discussion about pre-construction contracts binding the strata...

BC Court of Appeal overturned a lower court decision, resulting in the enforcement of a positive obligation to share costs.

Quote:

Strata Plan LMS 3905 v. Crystal Square Parking Corp.

CORPORATION — Contracts — Pre-incorporation contracts • REAL PROPERTY — Easements — [Lower] Court finding that positive obligations under easement agreement regarding maintenance of strata parkade did not run with land and unenforceable by developer against strata corporation — Developer’s appeal of dismissal of its counterclaim for payment of parkade expenses owing under pre-incorporation contract allowed — Pre-incorporations contract may ground a new, and identical, contract where evidence demonstrating an intention to be bound.

The defendant developer and the plaintiff strata corporation’s predecessor in title entered into an easement agreement under which the defendant agreed to operate, maintain and insure the strata’s parkade and reserved its right to reimbursement from a percentage of costs from the then yet-to-be incorporated plaintiff. Eight years later, a dispute arose concerning shared parkade expenses. In an action by the plaintiff, the court held that the positive obligations regarding maintenance of the strata parkade in the easement agreement did not run with the land and were unenforceable against the plaintiff. The court also dismissed the defendant’s counterclaim for payment of the parkade expenses owing on what the defendant claimed was a binding pre-incorporation contract. The defendant appealed the dismissal of its counterclaim. Held, appeal allowed. Contracts made before a party is incorporated may ground a new, and identical, contract binding that party if within a reasonable time of its incorporation, the party shows an intention to be so bound. Here, the judge erred in considering the irrelevant fact that the plaintiff had not been privy to the pre-incorporation contract and placing undue weight on the fact the defendant had not formally adopted the agreement. The judge also erred by considering conduct occurring some eight years after the plaintiff was incorporated, and looking to the subjective, rather than objective, indicators of the plaintiff’s intention to be bound.
Strata Plan LMS 3905 v. Crystal Square Parking Corp. C.A., Garson, Willcock & Fisher JJ.A., 2019 BCCA 145, Vancouver 2019 BCCA 145 CA44250, May 07, 2019 , 25pp., [CLE No. 69458] • Appeal from judgment of Young J., 2017 BCSC 71, [2017] C.D.C. 63426 (CLE) • K. McEwan, Q.C., E. Kirkpatrick, for appellant; G.S. Hamilton, for respondent.
https://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt...19BCCA0145.htm

A similar dispute arose regarding the costs of the Jameson House parking garage (the automated mechanical one).
But in this case, the BC Court of Appeal (the same Justices) upheld the lower court decision striking down the positive obligation - both cases where considered together.

Quote:

Strata Plan BCS 4006 v. Jameson House Ventures Ltd.

REAL PROPERTY — Easements • Under easement agreement, developer agreeing to operate, maintain and insure strata parkade with right to reimburse itself a percentage of its costs from yet-to-be created strata corporation — Court finding parkade covenant being a positive one not running with land ["Austerberry rule"] — Developer’s appeal dismissed — While there were compelling reasons to allow exceptions to the Austerberry rule, it was for the legislature to make the appropriate modifications.

The respondent, the developer of a commercial/residential strata complex, executed an easement agreement with the petitioner strata corporation’s predecessor in title under which the respondent agreed to operate, maintain and insure the strata parkade and reserved its right to reimburse itself a percentage of its costs from the then yet-to-be created petitioner ["strata covenant"]. A dispute subsequently arose concerning shared expenses. The court found the parkade covenant to be a positive one not running with the land ["Austerberry rule"] and not enforceable against the petitioner. The respondent appealed. Held, appeal dismissed. The Austerberry rule was a long-standing one and while there were compelling reasons to allow exceptions, as has been done in the U.K., it was for the legislature to make the appropriate modifications to the rule, not the courts. Although the Austerberry rule did not preclude truly conditional easements, the pleadings in the present case did not squarely raise the issue as to whether the continued exercise of the easement by the dominant tenement was conditional on the fulfillment of the corresponding burdens.
Strata Plan BCS 4006 v. Jameson House Ventures Ltd. S.C., Garson, Willcock & Fisher JJ.A., 2019 BCCA 144, Vancouver CA44904, May 07, 2019 , 35pp., [CLE No. 69457] • Appeal from judgment of Donegan J., 2017 BCSC 1988, [2017] C.D.C. 65502 (CLE) • G.S. McAlister and A. Morrison, for appellant; P. Mendes, A. Chang, for respondent.
https://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt...19BCCA0144.htm

and another:

Quote:

Rohaly v. Strata Plan, EPS 319

REAL PROPERTY — Restrictive covenants — Cancellation • Restrictive covenant registered against strata units in seniors’ supportive living complex requiring owners to hire and pay a set fee to particular service provider — Covenant creating positive obligation running with land and unenforceable — Court ordering cancellation of covenant.

AARC was the owner/developer of a seniors’ independent supportive living strata complex built in early 2011. AARC’s disclosure statement described how supportive living services would be available and delivered to unit owners and identified potential encumbrances that would be registered against title to each strata lot. The disclosure statement also outlined a supportive living services agreement ["SLSA"] each purchaser of a strata lot would be required to sign. At its core, the SLSA required the purchaser to contract with ARRC for supportive living services for a set fee. This requirement was registered as a restrictive covenant against each strata lot. In October 2011, AARC sold its interest in the complex to ASVH Ltd., an entity that operated retirement residences. The deceased purchased a unit in December 2011 and lived there until 2014 when he was required to leave for health reasons. During the time he lived there, he paid for and received supportive living services in accordance with the SLSA. After he left, he continued to be charged service fees under the SLSA in the monthly amount of $1,000. He attempted to sell the unit but no offers were forthcoming. Prior to his death, the deceased filed a petition seeking to have the restrictive covenant cancelled under s. 35(2) of the Property Law Act. The executrix of his estate continued the petition. Held, petition granted. The fact that each strata owner was not personally served with notice of the petition was not fatal; service on the strata corporation was sufficient. Although framed in the negative, the restrictive covenant was positive in substance. It required the petitioner to hire and pay a specific service provider (ASVH) in perpetuity and its overall effect was to make the SLSA run with the land. An obligation to hire and pay a specific service provider is not negative in substance and cannot be a valid restrictive covenant said to run with the land. Furthermore, an enforceable restrictive covenant must touch and concern the benefitted land in the sense that it must be connected with the enjoyment and for the benefit of the dominant. Here, the SLSA could not be said to benefit any of the strata units. Rather than benefitting the dominant tenement, the true beneficiary of the restrictive covenant was ASVH, not in its capacity as owner, but in its capacity as the service provider.
Rohaly v. Strata Plan, EPS 319 S.C., Donegan J., 2019 BCSC 667, Vancouver S176931, April 30, 2019 , 40pp., [CLE No. 69417] • D. Cowper, for petitioner; V. Chahal and D.F. Hepburn, each for one respondent.
https://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt...19BCSC0667.htm

Flynn86 Jul 4, 2019 1:55 AM

Has anyone seen that their advertising on there website that they will pay half of your mortgage for 2 years.

rpvan Jul 5, 2019 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flynn86 (Post 8623295)
Has anyone seen that their advertising on there website that they will pay half of your mortgage for 2 years.

For them to offer that...sales must be slow.:shrug:

e-clam9 Jul 5, 2019 8:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flynn86 (Post 8623295)
Has anyone seen that their advertising on there website that they will pay half of your mortgage for 2 years.

If I understand it correctly, it is for 1st time home buyer only. And the gov is helping this program. It is nice if you are buying your first home. :)

I also wonder if they are helping to pay 1/2 of principle+interest+property-tax or just the principle portion of the mortgage. If it is just the principle part, then it is not that much for the two year in a 30-year term mortgage.


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