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It's certainly a generous position coming from the owner of a team pulling in 4,000 fans a game. So points for that. As someone who has owned the team for 14 years, nothing about the City's bureaucratic metabolism should come as a surprise to him (especially in an year that will essentially paralyze council with not one but two elections). |
Just stepping back for a moment...
From a sports perspective, Hamilton really doesn't understand what it is. There are some who feel strongly that it's a big league town (i.e. NHL) but there's little-to-no chance that's ever going to happen. So, building a new 17000 seat arena would be a colossal waste of money. I've heard others suggest Hamilton go the London route - build a shiny 10000 seat arena for their OHL franchise. That's sounds quite reasonable except for the fact that Hamilton isn't a junior hockey town by any stretch of the imagination. That brand of hockey hasn't been relevant here for more than 30 years and I'm not sure whether we could learn to like it again. That leaves us in the middle. The AHL is probably right for us. We've got a lot more in common with places like Syracuse than we do with Owen Sound. |
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Would be nice if we could swap teams with belleville now that they have their arena renovated. Theyre more of an ohl town, not ahl. Also hello no to an arena on the mountain. Thats backwards thinking. Keep it downtown or reasonably close to it. |
Carmen’s wants to run Hamilton’s core entertainment venues
https://www.thespec.com/opinion-stor...inment-venues/ The Carmen's Group is making a play to take over operations of all three city-owned downtown entertainment facilities, including the arena, concert hall and convention centre. In addition to seeking the management contracts, Carmen's is also asking council for a green light to "spearhead" a local consortium to explore redevelopment options for the aging facilities. CEO PJ Mercanti says the goal is to maximize the potential of the existing buildings while beginning discussions on how they'll look in the future. "It's important that we start to look at the next generation of these facilities," said Mercanti. "The conversation needs to start now.' In a letter to council members, Mercanti proposes running the venues in partnership with Scott Warren, former general manager of FirstOntario Centre (formerly Copps Coliseum) and FirstOntario Concert Hall (formerly Hamilton Place). Warren ran both venues for Spectra Venue Management — which has a five-year operating agreement with the city — for about four years before leaving the company at the end of December. Spectra's management contract with the city expires at the end of 2018. Carmen's already operates the convention centre. Its contract also expires at the end of the year. Mercanti says the new offer was sparked by the recently approved motion from Coun. Sam Merulla that directed staff to explore opportunities for the redevelopment of the tired facilities — which need millions of dollars of repairs — and to investigate private sector interest in creating a sports and entertainment precinct in the area. It also builds on a privately funded consulting report on options for overhauling the 33-year-old arena, which include a $68-million renovation and a complete $250-million rebuild. Jasper Kujavsky, the lawyer and consultant who stickhandled the arena study, is advising Carmen's on the facilities proposal. Carmen's was one of the funders of the $240,000 arena report. Others included billionaire Ron Joyce, FirstOntario Credit Union, LIUNA and Fengate Capital. According to Mercanti, those same players are part of an emerging consortium interested in exploring redevelopment options for the three venues. "It's fair to say that every member of the arena study is aware and at the table with the conversation and the pursuit." Mercanti envisions talking with the city about more amenities for the existing buildings and a "bigger conversation" around adding commercial, retail and residential components. Merulla is excited by Carmen's proposal but says the city can't consider a potential billion-dollar redevelopment project without a competitive process. He intends to put forward a motion directing staff to talk to other potential bidders and "aggressively pursue" options. "We need to be open and transparent and give an opportunity to everyone rather than sole-sourcing." Mercanti says Carmen's is fully prepared to compete with other bidders. "The Carmen's Group is respectful of process and we understand that ultimately things have to happen through due process." Merulla notes that privatizing operations of the former HECFI buildings in 2013 has already saved the city millions of dollars. He says the goal should now be to capitalize on the development possibilities with an eye to growing tax assessment and generating revenue. Coun. Terry Whitehead agrees. He says the pitch from Carmen's underlines that the venues are at a "crossroads" regarding their lifespan and economic redevelopment possibilities. 'We haven't really tested the development community — the private sector — in regards to what there is now and what it could be. It's time to have that discussion." Interestingly, the proposal comes fast on the heels of renewed complaints from Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer about the city dragging its feet on what to do with the arena. It also lands just days after Carmen's — which operates five hospitality and entertainment businesses and employs about 400 people — publicly announced it's relocating its corporate headquarters to the downtown Hamilton City Centre from Stone Church Road East. Combine that with Carmen's recent role in saving the Hamilton Cardinals baseball team and its financial contribution to the upcoming HAMILTON sign at city hall and you're left with the impression of an intensely local company on a strategic roll. |
would LOVE to see very high density residentiall towers added to these sites with commercial at ground floor connecting to the streets and connecting to the facilities directly.
Add a few thousand new condo units with street patios/retail along with renovated facilities and there would be a much better future for our entertainment facilities. A brand new convention centre, way larger than our current one is sorely needed too. |
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AHL Bulldogs: 4,832 average per game OHL Bulldogs: 3,908 average per game |
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I've only gone to one OHL game, but a) the quality seems lower (unsurprisingly) b) it's crazy that they went from pros to amateurs and didn't drop the ticket price |
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The most surprising thing is arguably that three-quarters of Bulldogs fans don't seem to care either way. If not for the Steelhawks, they might as well be playing out of Mountain Arena, previously an OHL venue. |
@thistleclub 'I suppose I meant in relation to an 18,000-capacity venue...'
And that brings us back to issue - what to do with Copps? I still say the smartest thing would be to keep it viable but only in the most minimal way. |
Core Entertainment - Just Announced! BTS is coming to Hamilton!
Join us for their only Canadian stop on their World tour, live at FirstOntario Centre September 20, 22 & 23! Tickets go on-sale Monday, May 7 at 4pm! |
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K-Pop, it's gotten popular lately with the younger generation. It's like Milli Vanilli meets 90s boy bands with Asian fusion lol.
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They were on Ellen a few months back, the intro to this video lists out some of their recent achievements... We don't here about them as much here because they sing most of their songs in Korean, but they have a huge global fan base. With this being their only Canadian stop, expect 3 sold out shows. People will be flying in from all over the country. |
I have absolutely no doubt that show will sell out. They're huge right now.
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This is why we need an 18,000 seat venue! Long live Copps! |
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There's a legit complaint that FOC is too big for OHL (and AHL before it) but it's damn convenient to have that capacity available for major concerts and events. Given the Bulldogs' run this spring it's a shame that the Memorial Cup powers-that-be were so dismissive too. |
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I know zero about kpop - but 3 nights , wow, and a select global tour with pretty much every city with a recognizable name... good on FOC! |
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Cirque is doing a week in June. Many other concerts all summer, Tim Mcgraw, Shania Twain, Judas Priest. So some quality and variety coming through for a wide segment of people, and should be able to attract people from across the region. For something like K pop and Bollywood you would think the bulk of people would be coming from the GTA proper. |
The only show I've ever seen at Copps was Nine Inch Nails like a decade ago. I lived in downtown Toronto at the time and borrowed a car to make the trek over.
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Ironic that First Ontario is getting a good run of shows and then this comes out in the Spec:
A new proposal for Hamilton’s FirstOntario Centre A smaller, sustainable hockey facility could be augmented by world-class indoor cycling potential https://www.thespec.com/opinion-stor...ntario-centre/ Much has been written lately of First Ontario Centre regarding maintenance, possible upgrades and its ultimate fate. There has even been a suggestion that the arena, convention centre and performing arts centre be handed over to the private sector for redevelopment. As well, in all of this we have the generous offer of Bulldog owner Michael Andlauer to pay for half of a new arena. I believe we need a new vision for First Ontario Centre — one that would feature continued public ownership, but with a complete repurposing of the facility. The same sort of makeover that was accomplished for Maple Leaf Gardens should be applied to First Ontario Centre. In the renovations the original structure of Maple Leaf Gardens was kept but the hockey rink was scaled down and several levels were added to the building where the extra seats had been. On these extra floors Ryerson University has installed its athletics department complete with gym, fitness centre, sport venues and classrooms. What I am suggesting for First Ontario Centre is a modern, more intimate arena, perhaps 5,400 fixed seats. This would be on the ground level. Above this, on the next floor, would be a 250 metre, Olympic-size velodrome with 2,000 — 3,000 fixed seats. National Cycling Centre Hamilton (NCCH) is a 2003 world cycling championships legacy organization. NCCH would be a major tenant for this track. |
Does the writer know we built a world class veledrome in milton?
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The article is basically "Toronto did this and it worked for them - we should do it too"... ignoring the fact that Toronto has other venues for larger scale concerts/events. The arena was never just about the NHL. |
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I welcome anything that brings people into the city, including competitive sports, but if we are going to re-purpose First Ontario Centre it needs to be for the masses not a select few.
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That article was not stellar.
Hamilton makes decent use out of Copps and its size. Kevin Hart just played a sold-out show in late April. The Stars on Ice will play to a sold-out audience this weekend. Tickets for three shows for the K-pop band BTS will pretty much certainly sell out when they go on sale next week. The only other cities currently lined up for that tour are Seoul, LA, Oakland, Fort Worth, Newark Chicago, London, Amerstdam, Berlin, Paris. Pretty cool that Hamilton is in such company. |
I drive by FOC every day on the way home from work and the building is looking pretty tired. Hopefully a plan is in the works.
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Carmen’s teams up with L.A. powerhouse in venues bid
Carmen’s-led consortium to pitch entertainment ‘Precinct Plan’ https://www.thespec.com/opinion-stor...in-venues-bid/ The Carmen's Group is upping the ante in its bid to manage the three city-owned downtown entertainment facilities formerly known as HECFI. The Hamilton hospitality company has notified the city that its proposal to operate and potentially redevelop the aging arena, concert hall and convention centre now includes working with the Oak View Group (OVG), a heavyweight Los Angeles-based venue management, event booking and development company. In a letter to the mayor and city councillors, Carmen's CEO PJ Mercanti flags OVG's participation in an offer from a Carmen's-led consortium to provide greater financial savings to the city and a forthcoming unsolicited offer to create a "Precinct Plan" for the "next generation" of sports, entertainment and convention facilities in the core. "The fact that OVG is attracted to the vision that the local group is presenting and want to be a part of that speaks to what we're trying to bring to the table," Mercanti said in an interview. OVG was founded in 2015 by Tim Leiweke, former president and CEO of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, and Irving Azoff, former chair and CEO of Ticketmaster and Live Nation Entertainment. Its executive team includes Peter Luukko, executive chair of the NHL Flordia Panthers and former CEO of Spectra, the company currently contracted by the city to run FirstOntario Centre (formerly Copps Coliseum) and FirstOntario Concert Hall (formerly Hamilton Place). OVG was recently selected to build a new home for the NHL New York Islanders and is spearheading the $600-million renovation of the KeyArena in Seattle. This is its first prospective management foray into Canada. Mercanti's letter follows one in February in which Carmen's first pitched taking over operations of the city venues in partnership with Scott Warren, former general manger of FirstOntario Centre and FirstOntario Concert Hall. Warren ran both venues on behalf of Spectra before leaving the company last December. Spectra's five-year management contract with the city expires at the end of 2018. Carmen's already operates the convention centre. Its contract also expires at the end of the year. While Spectra is talking to the city about the possibility of a new contract obviously Carmen's is hoping to displace and replace the company as arena and concert hall manager. In response to Carmen's first letter, council directed staff to explore broader private sector interest in managing and redeveloping the venues. Staff have yet to report back on options, but Mercanti says Carmen's will participate in any process council chooses. Mercanti declines to say how Carmen's proposes to find more savings for the city but clearly he's hinting at the possibility of reducing if not eliminating the city's operating subsidies for the venues. Carmen's got rid of its operating subsidies for the convention centre this year. Spectra receives about $1.4 million. Both companies have saved taxpayers millions of dollars since taking over from HECFI. OVG reportedly reached out to Scott Warren after learning about his partnership with Carmen's via a Hamilton Spectator article. That led to company reps touring the city and nailing down an agreement. Warren, who knows some of the OVG players from his time at Spectra, says the company brings a lot of muscle to the table. "They have this huge wealth of industry knowledge and clout." Doug Higgons, OVG senior vice-president of facilities, says his company is "very bullish and excited" about the future of Hamilton after spending several months studying the market and its potential opportunities. "We were looking for the right opportunity for the proper entrance into Canada and Hamilton fits that specifically," Higgons said. Higgons says OVG, if given a chance, is specifically interested in working with the Carmen's consortium on the entertainment venues. That consortium includes billionaire Ron Joyce, FirstOntario Credit Union, LiUNA and Fengate Capital. They first came together with Carmen's to fund a consulting report on options for overhauling the 33-year-old arena, a study stickhandled by lawyer and consultant Jasper Kujavsky, who is now advising the group. Kujavsky is especially keen on Carmen's idea for a comprehensive precinct plan. For his part, Mercanti says it's premature to go into details but he hopes to bring a proposal shortly to council for exploring a sport-entertainment-commercial precinct in the core which could harmonize with a potential bid for the 2030 Commonwealth Games. |
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Recalls what Pittsburgh did, and it has been a monumental success. Hamilton Place is beyond beat: it needs to go down to the studs but preserve the acoustics of the hall. All glass along Main and King. Then you'd have a great entertainment district that's close to Hess. And then restos and other amenities would spring up around to meet the demand of the throngs. It would not surprise me at all if this consortium were making an early play at bringing in an NHL franchise, and to be honest I think they could get one: they have a serious pedigree, lots of cash, and this market is enormous--could easily float a pro team. |
I really don't get the obsession with moving the rink out of the downtown. ACC is only as successful as it is and such a great venue because it's right in the centre of the downtown and close to transit. Hamilton has one spot that is great at transit and that's downtown.
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Nhl caliber arena would cost over $500M. City doesn’t have money for that. Would have to be some significant private dollars or senior government funding tied to the commonwealth games.
This new consortium sounds promisng though. Good to get the talks started. And yes, I too feel the rink should stay in the downtown vicinity. Unlike an outdoor stadium, an arena gets much more use for hockey, concerts, trade shows, ice shows etc. So there is less of a worry that it becomes a deadzone when not being used. |
Wasn't someone offering to pay 50% of it with their own money ?
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my vote would be revamp - crazy money regardless of route. Hard to believe that building under 35 years old could not be salvaged.
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As it stands, I think it would just be wise to fix the problems there is inside. I would love a nice renovation of the exterior though - the arena has been an eye-sore for quite a while with that siding. It would be a nice way of sprucing up the downtown. |
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At what point do we cut our losses and start saving those tens of millions on a downpayment for a new arena with lower operating costs. |
I don't recall a size or location stipulation for the 50/50 investment either ....I think he is fully willing to invest in dt
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Look at Bell MTS Place, that arena wasn’t in suburb condition when the jets moved back to the peg. Now after multiple years of renovations, it is definitely one of the better arenas in the league as seats are close to the action and provides a great atmosphere. The FOC is also compact and could use renovations over a span of multiple years as well. Didn’t the Carmen’s group want to take ownership of the arena and do some work to it?
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Putting the stadium at limeridge would be a horrible idea....in the suburbs with horrible traffic already ....the NIMBYs would fight it ....and the city would look so ameture by moving the stadium out of the dt core .... Why would you not want the crowds in the core?!? Next to the transit lines and LRT ....
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Limeridge would be a terrible idea. Wrong location. Donna Skelly is driving the suburb arena idea, but she’ll be a provincial mpp in a couple of months. Plus you can bet the lower city cllrs will fight for the arena downtown. Edit: i did hear some talk from bulldogs staff that they felt they could significantly increase season tickets if they build their arena where their fans are, which they seem to believe is the mountain. Dont agree with it though. LRT would be great for the bulldogs. Think of all the mac students they could lure, as well as east end residents. |
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I dont see Carmens and their LA contacts building their entertainment district at limeridge mall. Carmens is very invested in the core as evidenced by moving their head office downtown. |
The city missed a great opportunity to put Tim Hortons Field right by Mac. There is a plot of land on Aberdeen and Longwood and I’m sure the city could have made a move to get it. The area is directly off the highway, in very close distance to Mac and in a 4km radius of 6 schools. The area has lots of parking and is near several bus routes. Now Tims is in downtown in a not very ideal location with minimal parking nearby.
I’m not saying a new arena should be built there but during the school year, I’m sure tons of Mac students would flee to the arena to witness hockey games and concerts since it’s in very close range to student homes. |
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Especially when they decide to do the B-Line LRT in 15 years after it is way too late. |
Another heavyweight woos City of Hamilton venues
SMG which manages more than 200 facilities worldwide is headquartered in Philadelphia but owned by Onex a Canadian firm https://www.thespec.com/opinion-stor...milton-venues/ Hamilton's downtown entertainment facilities have attracted another solid-gold suitor. SMG, a global sports, entertainment and venue management player, has notified city officials it's also interested in bidding for the rights to manage the city-owned arena, concert hall and convention centre. "If the city is going to have a competitive bidding process for the entertainment facilities, SMG would be interested in looking at the opportunity," Harry Cann, SMG regional vice-president of Canadian operations, said in an interview, The company's interest comes fast on the heels of a similar unsolicited offer from the Hamilton-based Carmen's Group and its new partner the Oak View Group, a major Los Angeles-based event booking, venue management and development company. Both proposals arrive as the city is wrestling with contract expirations and renewals at the three buildings. Spectra, a multibillion-dollar venue, hospitality and sports and entertainment company based in Philadelphia, holds the existing five-year management contract for FirstOntario Centre and FirstOntario Concert Hall. Carmen's holds the contract for the convention centre but is now making a play to run all three venues. Both the Spectra and Carmen's contracts expire Dec. 31. The city needs to notify them if it intends to renew the contracts no later than August 3. This sudden eruption of new proposals means city staff will have to present recommendations to council as soon as possible. Options could include simply rolling over the existing contracts for another five years or opening them up to a full or limited competitive bidding process. SMG, which manages more than 200 facilities worldwide, is headquartered in Philadelphia but owned by Onex Corp., a Canadian firm based in Toronto. The company is no stranger to the Hamilton venues. SMG unsuccessfully took part in the original 2013 process, which saw council scrap the city agency HECFI and turn management of the former Copps Coliseum and Hamilton Place over to Spectra and the Convention Centre to Carmen's. Back then, SMG partnered with Hamilton's Sonic Unyon and Forum Equity, a Toronto development company. Sonic Unyon is an independent record label with organizing links to the award-winning annual Supercrawl festival downtown. Cann says SMG doesn't know if this time around they would bid by themselves or partner with others. "We'd have to look at the scope of the procurement and the goals of the city for the venues." Mayor Fred Eisenberger is "delighted" by this rush of interest from the heavyweight companies. He says it speaks well for the standing of the facilities and city as a whole. "They see opportunity and that opportunity bodes well for the city in terms of our subsidy and facility management, as well as future development." Council privatized management of the three venues in 2013 to reduce swelling taxpayer subsidies. Between them, Spectra and Carmen's have now saved the city an estimated $5 million. Under the current contract, Spectra still receives an annual $1.4 million subsidy from the city. Carmen's, having eliminated its subsidy, suggests it can provide "improved financial arrangements" if given the chance to run all three facilities. Spectra regional vice-president Tim Murphy says his company is pleased with it's track record in Hamilton, its partnership with concert promoter Live Nation Canada, and the prospect of having its contract renewed for another five years. "We're confident we can do a better job than anybody," he said. If council, however, opts for a new competitive process, Murphy says Spectra is open to bidding for management rights to all three venues. "If it does go out to bid and there's an opportunity to bid on other facilities, we certainly would do it." That potentially puts Spectra, SMG and Carmen's in a three-way battle, essentially a rematch of the 2013 contest. This time around, however, Carmen's has another card up its sleeve. Although the company is willing to take part in any process council chooses, a Carmen's-led consortium also plans to present the city with a proposal for a public-private partnership aimed at redeveloping the aging facilities and surrounding lands. That means, as Eisenberger notes, council may soon be deciding what's best for the venues in both the short and long term. |
Whatever Fred. Does the name Sgro keep you up at night. You and Thorne and Farr all these who oppose density and height.
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