It's up to around 400 feet now. The building in the photo to the left of it is 397 feet.

I'm not sure, but I do think Austin has a unique way of looking inward about a multitude of things. One of them has been the way that our downtown has always been the place for fun in Austin. We're not a city with amusement parks or water parks or even a typical city zoo, so our downtown and the parks surrounding it have always been our playground. Being that so many people were already using those places and with the density naturally happening there, I do think Austin is unique in Texas for much of its density being close in.

Kinda. Sorta. I think we need much more walkable density in our close in neighborhoods to be considered truly urban. We are still remarkably suburban in character within a mile or two of Downtown.

Please specifically define "walkable density" in your terms.

The capitol is one mile from Lady Bird Lake. UT extends at least another 2 miles north of there. Austin is not New York or Chicago...but, it's [I]urban core[/u] is pretty darn dense (and walkable) for a city of almost 2.4 million people!

Walkable density means having enough homes close together that they can support the basic amenities of daily life within a 15 minute walk. And sidewalks! Many of our neighborhood streets don't even have sidewalks!

For the purposes of my description, I'm including UT, Capitol Campus and West Campus as 'greater Downtown area' because they are not regular 'neighborhoods'. Using the Urban Transect nomenclature, they are SD (Special District) or T6 (like Downtown).

What we need are T5 and T4 neighborhoods throughout the urban core, let alone within 1 or 2 miles of the 'greater Downtown area'. For example, Plaza Saltillo is T5, but a block away is T3. Clarksville is maybe T4 in spots, but mostly T3 and Tarrytown is absolutely T3 except along Enfield and parts of Exposition. Heritage, North University, Hyde Park, mostly T3 with pockets of T4.

We are beginning to build T5 along our corridors, but the development is mostly spotty, and not very pleasant for walking for the most part. If the corridors were more continuous, and we had T4 for at least 1/4 mile from the corridors, they would be more urban.

What we need throughout the core is more development like Saltillo, Mueller, Triangle, the Grove and the Domain. Most of those are examples of the kind of T5 we need along corridors and special opportunity area like around transit stations, and the missing middle residential areas in Mueller are a good example of the kind of T4 we should have near the corridors, throughout the traditional 'neighborhoods'.

https://www.cnu.org/publicsquare/tra...gram-diversity

I don't disagree with you. Dense development is beginning to spread throughout the core - as you have highlighted. However, as a former lobbyist for developers, good luck in trying to convince those living in Tarrytown, Clarksville, West Lynn, North University, Hyde Park, etc., etc., etc. to densify. I already would classify most of those neighborhoods as upper T3/lower T4 (small lot SFRs). I'd even go as far as classifying most masterplanned communities as the same (at least an upper T3/lower T4) - even though they may be distant from the core of Austin.

Austin will never become as walkable as I expect you want throughout its "core." For that to occur, you'll need wide/vast swaths of T5 and T6 areas. The infrastructure is just not there for that to happen. But, I like what is happening along major corridors. It, at least, is moving in a positive direction - and a bit of an easier sell to the neighborhoods.

Sidewalks and density aren't everything when it comes to a walkable neighborhood. It's not just about how easy your walk will be as far as if you have a space to do it in. You also have to have the sort of amenities that you want and need close by, otherwise, you'll still have to travel farther for what you want. And also, even if you live in a dense walkable neighborhood, you're still at the mercy of the market and companies that you rely on closing their stores and moving around or not being there at all. I learned that recently this past year after my most favorite HEB in the world (and the smallest one in Austin) closed after they opened a new big fancy one considerably farther away than I would ever care to ride my bike to.

Sidewalks are good, but here's the thing. The first house I grew up in had sidewalks, however, the street it was on was a 4 lane divided street (South First Street) in South Austin where people drove fast and still do. Some of the craziest things I've seen on Austin streets have happened on South First, and I wouldn't ride a bike in the street there even today. Now, I clearly remember walking to the grocery store when we lived there as it was right down the street at South First & William Cannon, though, I'm not 100% sure if they had sidewalks then.

The 2nd house I grew up in had no sidewalks, and still doesn't, but it's far more walkable safety wise than the one on South First was, and even though it's a little farther away from the that same grocery store, the walk isn't prohibitively far, and the bike ride was even better. That is, until HEB closed that store last year. I still ride my bike to two other stores, but the ride is 2 1/2 to 3 times as far to both. Still, we have other options that are totally doable even within walking distance. I feel like commercial density is more important than housing density if your goal is the convenience of accessing it. That means having dense commercial retail close to neighborhoods, even if the housing stock isn't as dense.

But that is just the thing. You don't get commercial density without the residential density to support it. Anybody involved in commercial development counts 'rooftops' nearby as the principle measure of the viability of a market. Del Valle has been crying for an HEB for decades, but there just isn't the density. They may eventually get their chance with Velocity Crossing, but HEB hasn't committed on when they will develop that store. That is probably why your HEB closed. Newer, larger stores are closer to more rooftops.

The same principle applies Downtown and along our busiest corridors. The Lamar Union development is great in many respects, but has struggled. It took out some viable, if low rent commercial, and added back a significant amount of residential and commercial. It has had a lot of great restaurants and retail, but there also has been a lot of turnover, despite having Alamo Drafthouse as an anchor, and a free parking garage. The added residential just isn't enough to sustain the businesses. If there were more homes throughout Zilker within easy walking distance, the commercial spaces would do better.

In truly urban, dense, walkable cities, the commercial corridors primarily serve the adjacent neighborhoods within walking distance and become neighborhood institutions. They are not primarily geared to attracting people throughout the city who have to drive (take transit or ride) to get there. That is the suburban auto-centric model that Austin and a good deal of the US is developed on.

I live in South Austin, so it's not like there's a lack of rooftops here, and there's a new 5-story apartment complex going up two blocks south of that old HEB site that will have 307 units. That store was already surrounded on all sides by neighborhoods. The irony is that where that new big HEB is going up at Congress & Slaughter, has considerably less housing stock and less dense options. It also didn't make sense to have HEB there, as it wasn't really needed since there's a Walmart and Target in the shopping center across the street. And I don't even like that store since it's laid out funky. It's laid out more like a Walmart or Target than an HEB is, which makes me think they were just trying to compete with those two.

That's what I'm talking about though. That HEB at South First & William Cannon served this neighborhood, and now in its absence, we don't have a full service grocer. I mean, actually, there's a Fiesta up at Stassney and I-35, but we've never really shopped there consistently. And again, ironically, that Fiesta replaced another Fiesta that was in the same space that the old HEB was in. HEB said the reason they left that space was that they couldn't expand since they didn't own the building, and it needed infrastructure upgrades that the owners weren't willing to do. And now, unless I'm willing to take a 20 to 25 minute bike ride - something I'm fully capable of doing, we're otherwise forced to drive farther to HEB. That little HEB was an 8 minute bike ride, versus the other two which are 20 and 25 minute rides. And that's without counting the new HEB which I'll never ride to since I don't care to and it's prohibitively far, and a difficult and dangerous ride. This doesn't have anything to do with density since that HEB had been at that location for 20 years. They chose to leave an area that has been developed since the 60s. And now the people living here are forced to drive to another store farther away. Thankfully, I can do the ride, but not everyone in my neighborhood can.

I just don't buy into the idea that more density would legitimize having a store nearby since nothing stopped that from being true for the past 35 years for us as we had two stores within walking distance, and now we have 0. And South Park Meadows is a lot of things, but it's not more dense than my neighborhood. And I don't envy the people who have to deal with the traffic down there every day. I should know, my brother lives off Slaughter, and it takes them forever to go anywhere, and a bike ride to the grocery store in their neighborhood is out of the question. In the 7 or 8 years they've lived there, they've seen several fatal wrecks on Slaughter, and that's when the traffic was moving fast enough to be lethal.

I feel like those apartments up and down Lamar are great and all for density, but I don't think the type of retail they're getting is anything special or particularly needed. That's why they have such a high turnover. The first thing I would look at before moving into a neighborhood is the type of businesses in it that I would be using most often, grocery stores being chief among them. If a place is lacking that, I'd have to look somewhere else.

Kevin, I should not have included comments on your specific neighborhood, because I do not know it like you do. However, I do know that your neighborhood is anything but walkable urban. Grocery stores (at least the large supermarkets we are most familiar with) are also not great examples of the kind of neighborhood serving retail found in walkable urban areas, as they are built on the auto-oriented suburban model. When I lived in larger, walkable urban cities, I often bought my groceries from tiny (a few thousand square feet) neighborhood green grocers that packed in just about anything you can get at HEB, with similar quality. There might have been fewer brand names of the same staple product, smaller quantities, and the varieties might have skewed differently depending on the specific ethnic enclave they were located in, but I did not suffer from access to quality food at a reasonable price.

Anyway, the original question that prompted this off topic thread had nothing to do with groceries. The question was "is Austin becoming a true urban environment in the south/southwest or do you think it already is?" and my answer is still: not yet. Maybe in another 20 years or so, with the build out of Project Connect and further development of our corridors, but we also need Land Development Code reform that will allow a variety of denser, walkable missing middle housing throughout our core neighborhoods to be able to claim a truly urban environment.

X-posting a post by IluvATX in the Austin subforum. Three residential towers needing a zoning change for height all near each other in the Rainey St. District got City Council approval on their final reading this afternoon.

In addition to the above three towers that just got approved, there are three more Rainey St. District residential/hotel towers either approved or going through the permitting process that are ~600, 800+ & 1,000+ feet.

Hyatt Centric Congress Ave

https://i.imgur.com/ET46amih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/H9uJOhxh.jpg

Hanover Brazos St

https://i.imgur.com/oduv3pdh.jpg

Whole Foods HQ Expansion

https://i.imgur.com/xzCrT89h.jpg

“What pandemic ?” — Austin —

Austin's growth is crazy. Although we're primarily urban focused on this site, what are the Austin suburbs doing lately? Still growing fast? I'm trying to imagine Austin in 10 years- are we looking at a larger metropolitan area with similar growth patterns to all other Texas cities (Houston, Dallas) or will Austin stay more compact than that former two?

To say the suburbs are growing fast would be a severe understatement. Housing market is absolutely nuts and construction companies can't keep up with the demand for businesses and houses alike.

I agree. Growth in Austin is crazy! My cousins their talk about it all the time.

Some 200+ people a day are moving to the metro area. I believe - as of last month - there was only 12 days of housing inventory available (the fewest of any major metro in the country). A large number of sales are not even hitting the "market." Developers cannot build fast enough.

As for Austin's future - I hope it grows to be more dense than Dallas or Houston. Just based on the last 10 years of growth - Austin's metro could have 3.1 million by 2030 (5+ million by 2045). I would hope that a good chunk of those will live near the center and not in the periphery.

With rail coming and more "walkable" core neighborhoods, Austin could get a better handle on traffic. It's not going to disappear. But, allowing citizens to live closer to work and play areas, it could remove them from a long commute - clogging the freeways. Additionally, with more housing options near the center, it could have a positive affect on pricing. Even though those homes will still be pricey, having more options could slow down some of the price growth. In some cases, offers are coming in at $100k-$250k over asking price on $500k-$750k homes. Recently, a family purchased a home near Riverplace for $28 million. Ten days after they closed, they received an unsolicited offer for 10% more than they paid (they turned it down). Another home sold about a month ago in West Lake Hills (on Lake Austin) for $39 million. And those two examples are for properties of less than 9 acres! Just crazy.

Edit: An additional property - Medway Ranch (~67 acres) - sold early last year for ~$30 million (on Lake Austin off of Pecan Road)...

Yes! Despite headwinds from strong Housing Opposition Groups/NIMBYs. The goal to protect central city single family homes from change still overrides much of our community goals at great expense. Perhaps this changes, it's just a matter of time, how much pain they put on all of us beforehand though the jury is still out

Crazy growth. Can’t build fast enough. Cash offers for 10% over asking.

In regard to density Austin will be denser simply due to the demand for downtown living. Many more residential towers in downtown. The underlying dynamics are different here. You have a lake and parks and soco all in the center. Then u have terrible highway traffic infrastructure that limits mobility. Then u have Nimbys limiting development outside downtown. It creates an island effect like Honolulu or SF. At least for downtown.

The burbs are exploding like Dallas / Houston.

Austin's pipeline of towers has been pretty large for a long time, but after a Pandemic pause, we're finally starting to see some groundbreakings with a lot of other projects looking close to a groundgreaking.

Well above that in a myriad of cases!!!