If the last 40 years have shown us anything it's that a cultural institution that was a very big deal can slip completely off the radar in 2 generations. That's precisely what happened to football in Toronto.

Admittedly Toronto is an extreme case and not representative of Canada but it does show how fragile culture can be. Immigrants are heading to cities beyond the Big 3 (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) in ever increasing numbers and cultural preferences are shifting. Sporting interests amongst millennials/Generation Z is very different than that of Bommers/Generation X.

We should expect what's playing out in Toronto to be repeated in cities and towns nationally to varying degrees. It may seem implausible today but I can see a time when hockey isn't #1 nationally. By 2050 (only 31 years away) I can see it dropping to 3rd behind the NBA and MLS.

Bold prediction, considering there is only 1 NBA team in Canada, that gets mediocre tv viewership at best, which the majority likely come from the Toronto region. I think it’s more realistic to consider the NBA to continue to be behind 1) NHL 2) CFL 3) MLB 4) MLS.

I can see MLS taking off, as they are already rooted in Van TO and Mtl. However currently the interesting that league is abysmal currently considering the tv viewership, which like the Raptors, get the majority of viewers from their respective region.

My opinion of course!

This would mean that we would become an even more un-rooted and TV-based sports culture than we are already, as I don't see either the NBA or MLS having 7 or more clubs in Canada like the NHL currently has. It's far from a sure thing that the NBA will ever add more clubs in Canada and I also doubt MLS will expand in Canada that much. (MLS, which looks reasonably solid at the moment, could even conceivably flounder, as other soccer leagues that looked pretty good like the NASL have in the past.)

Generally speaking, aside from the CFL, I still see the NHL as being the pro sports league with by far the most clubs across Canada in the future. My guess is that in 2050 we'll still have between 6-8 clubs minimum. Local clubs are a huge driver of interest - look at interest in the NHL in the U.S. It's primarily about areas where there are clubs. How many people pay attention to the NHL in Memphis vs. Nashville? Or Columbus vs. Cincinnati/Cleveland?

The future Canada you're depicting is a Canada where everybody just sits in front of their TVs watching the various Toronto entries in U.S. leagues, and almost no one outside of the GTA (and once-in-a-lifetime "splurge" fan trips) ever goes to games in person.

The latest recreation document for the city of Regina mentioned building Cricket Grounds. There is actually quite the active cricket league there.

I would think many Canadian cities have long histories of cricket dating back to the British colonial era. These days, it's dominated by the South Asian community, although I'm sure there are a few transplanted Brits and Aussies involved too.

The only one that really comes to mind is Victoria at Beacon Hill Park.

I spent much of the 70s, 80s and a good part of the 90s in various cities in Ontario and the Maritimes, and I can't say I ever noticed anything resembling a cricket culture in any of them.

Perhaps it was there and I just didn't notice, but I am generally a pretty observant person.

Other fringe (for Canada) sports like rugby and even lawn bowling had a much more visible presence in most of these places. You couldn't really miss them even if they weren't mainstream.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying cricket is popular in Canada because apart from the South Asian community and a handful of expat Aussies and Brits, it isn't. I'm just saying that cricket generally and cricket facilities specifically are not new and that most cities have had them for a long time.

I honestly wasn't even aware of any facilities anywhere growing up, and couldn't point to or name any such facility in Ottawa today.

But I've known for quite some time that there is a rugby park (probably multi-field) called Twin Elm somewhere in the rural southwest of Ottawa. And I don't follow rugby at all here in Canada.

^ I googled Ottawa cricket and you guys have a lot going on... multiple clubs dating back to the 1800s, active leagues, way more than Winnipeg on that front.

I guess it's a bit of an under the radar thing... probably like handball or water polo, if you aren't actually playing the sport you don't give it a second thought.

I just checked out the Twin Elm Rugby Park. It has several fields and one of them has a grandstand that can seat 6,000 people. Not bad.

Ultimate Frisbee is a niche sport that seems to be growing in Ottawa. There is even a professional team in Ottawa! Their division includes Toronto, Washington, New York, Philadelphia and Montreal. And that is just 1 of 4 divisions spread across Canada and the US.

https://theaudl.com/outlaws

Right...but it's 2019 and there's more ways to consume a sport than simply watching on TV. TV ratings are only going to offer a sliver of what a sport can capture in a given market, and they're a poor way of gauging a team's overall popularity if used as the only figure. Just because the Argos get four times the TV viewers of the Raptors doesn't mean there's four times the number of Argos fans, and vice versa.

There'll be more than just the MLS for soccer in Canada in a few months, so we'll have a better idea of what the landscape is like when CPL kicks off. Again, it's probably unwise to look at things only through the lens of TV ratings and leaving the conversation at that.

It's only one sliver, but all Canadian MLS teams have more twitter followers than CFL teams, as an example of looking at available data beyond just tv ratings. The same can be said when looking at Instagram, Snapchat, Reddit...

NHL condensed game highlights on Youtube get 20K-50K viewers or so.
MLS game highlights on Youtube get 15K-40K viewers or so.
NBA game highlights on Youtube (on a non-official channel) get over a million within a day.

This Lakers/Celtics 10 minute highlight package from two days ago has four million views, and it's not even an official NBA video. The NHL only has two videos near four million views - one from five years ago and one from nearly a year ago. That's the NBA's impact on social media and alternative viewing platforms that aren't TV. The NBA dominates every other league when it comes to online activation, including the NFL.

The thing with MLS is that it's not going to be expanding to any other Canadian markets so they're stuck with whatever market penetration they have right now in Canada. They can do as well as they want in VAN/TO/MTL but they're not going to have much impact beyond those cities. This is presumably where CPL can step in and fill the gaps.

via q12 over on the Halifax subforum:

Another logo off their new website:

http://halifaxthunderbirds.com/wp-co...board-1@4x.png

halifaxthunderbirds.com

Holy crap, Stephen Colbert has the CFL trending on YouTube
Drew Edwards 3downnation.ca February 17, 2019

There’s an old adage that you shouldn’t read your press, you should just weigh it and for the CFL, going viral weighs 20 pounds of poop.

Late night talk show host Stephen Colbert does a bit on his show called “Meanwhile,” which he describes as the “ransom note of news.” And the No. 2 item on Friday night? Poop Johnson.

“Meanwhile in sports news, the Canadian Football League has announced – and let me pause right there, first of all there is a Canadian Football League and the cheerleaders are here tonight evidently – well they’ve been up to something. Specifically, that a defensive tackle with the actual name Poop Johnson has signed to play with the Toronto Argonauts. And where did Poop get his nickname? The answer will make you say, ‘ yeah that makes sense.’ You see a defensive tackle, needs to stay heavy and when asked about his weight by sports reporters, Johnson once said ‘he can weigh anywhere between 280 to 300 pounds depending on the day.’ How? ‘I guess because I poop so much.'”

“Twenty pounds! That’s what you want on your defensive line, you want a guy who can line up look his opponent in the eye and say ‘I crap three babies a day.'”

Colbert wasn’t the only media outlet to try and, uh, squeeze a couple of laughs out of Poop Johnson. The website Deadspin, which writes about both poop and Poop with, uh, regularity also did another riff after his signing.

But Colbert is another thing altogether: he currently has the highest-rated late night talk show, beating both Jimmy Fallon and Jimmy Kimmel. The clip that includes the Poop joke had almost 400,000 views on YouTube by Sunday afternoon and was No. 11 on the trending list.

We can debate the relative merits of this kind of exposure – does the eyeballs the league gets from having its logo in front of millions of viewers outweigh that Colbert is taking a couple of shots at the CFL – but one thing is for sure: ‘I crap three babies a day’ is some funny… shit.

:previous:

There's no such thing as bad publicity (unless you're a rapist or child molester)........

I was thinking the very same thing.

I agree with all of that. I don't think cricket ever had much of imprint despite the strong English ties. Rugby was the dominant football code up until the 1880s. Canadian football supplanted it and will likely be the dominant football code for the forseeable future.... even with the growth of soccer.

My view is that the preferences of Canadian youth and immigrants will eventually translate to the overall preferences of Canadians. It's predicated on following generations also favouring basketball and soccer (over football, baseball, hockey). It's also on the assumption that the NBA will match the penetration of MLS: teams in Canada's big 3 cities. I view expansion to Montreal and return to Vancouver as more of a 'when' than and 'if'.

Basketball is more suited to Canada than soccer imo. It's an indoor sport and we have a plethora of arenas built nationally. You're correct that NBA television audiences in Canada are relatively small and heavily southern Ontario. I'd be shocked if it remains that way over the next 30 years. The sporting landscape in Canada is undergoing a big shift. It's most pronounced in Toronto but I view it as the canary in the coal mine.

I can see a time where in hockey and football there's representation in the same league nationally. We'll have 9-10 NHL teams and 10-12 CFL teams. The CHL will continue to get overlooked. In baseball, soccer, and basketball the big 3 cities will play in US based leagues (MLB, MLS, NBA) while the rest of Canada plays in a different league. It's not ideal but that's the reality of living next to a colossus (the USA).

That will never happen.

Sports experts have been prediction the MLS will overtake the NHL for the last 20 years. It's not even remotely close to happening.

Why doesn't the CFL change its schedule?

The CFL should start sometime in March and end sometime in August.

That way there is no direct competition with the NFL. The CFL would be the spring league and the NFL the fall league.

Grey Cup festivities would probably be better if it was in August, too.

Starting the season in March would put it in the shadow of the most exciting part of the NHL season which is a nonstarter.

I'm sure part of the appeal of the CFL as a television property is the fact that it fills the gap in the schedule when hockey is either not on, or just starting up (October/November).

I think that is probably a much bigger factor than the NFL in a Canadian context.

Yep. Easier for CFL to go up against NFL than up against NHL which they directly share markets with.

CFL starting in June logically makes sense as only the Stanley Cup Finals are on at that point, whereas starting the season in March guarantees that all teams (including Canadian teams) are still playing for at least another month and a half.

There's also no guarantee that weather in March is any better than weather in October or November. March is still plenty snowy and cold in plenty of places across Canada.

It would be very hard for CFL teams to sign players if the season started any earlier. CFL clubs have to wait for the NFL draft, then for a while after the NFL draft, before the undrafted players accept that they aren't going to be signed and consider the CFL. Then at the other end of the process they won't be able to sign NFL cuts as much anymore if at that time there are just 3 or 4 games left in the regular season. TSN needs a fall schedule -- having the CFL end at Thanksgiving would be very awkward for them. There is no way the Canadian TV contract would be as good for football going up against the Stanley Cup.

And even if there is no snow on the field, a lot of them are in pretty bad shape in March.

I've never heard sports experts predict that MLS will overtake NHL but I'm not sure what bearing that has on anything. Some predictions are realized while others aren't.

Yeah, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head saying that MLS would be passing the NHL ten years ago. People today talk about it catching up but it still has a long way to go. MLS has made up good ground on the other major leagues but it'll be another decade or so before it even starts getting close to the NHL (which is far behind the other three). MLS is still six or seven teams short of the other leagues, to boot.

The thing with MLS is that it'll likely never be the best soccer league in the world. It's always going to be second fiddle to EPL/Liga/Bundesliga/Serie A etc. The other major sports leagues don't have that sort of major international competition (only the NHL does, really) and so that's MLS' major handicap. MLS isn't even the most popular soccer league in the US (behind EPL and LigaMX). The NFL/NBA/MLB are far-and-away the best leagues in their sports and lack that international competition for eyeballs.

Of course, this is all US-based. Canda would be a different conversation altogether.

And, it's a whole lot easier to get people out in the cold when it's the playoffs than when it's just getting started.

When I first read the comments about MLS passing the NHL I though people were just talking about Canada. I know that's wishful thinking for some (thrown in the NBA there too) but I just don't see that happening unless these two leagues increase their number of Canadian clubs to something approaching what the NHL has.

OTOH I would not be too dismissive about MLS passing the NHL in the U.S. I do think that day is coming - you don't have to be a Professional Forbes Magazine Online Sports List Preparer to see that.

The only thing I can see preventing that is if the MLS makes some major blunders, goes too big too soon and implodes like the old NASL did a couple of decades ago.

Otherwise MLS can only go one way: up.

And while prestige foreign soccer leagues do have a high degree popularity in the U.S. I don't think that will hurt MLS that much. Many Americans generally think whatever is American is automatically the best regardless of whether it truly is or not. Just look at food, movies, literature, music, etc. (Not saying there isn't good U.S. stuff in these areas, but it's not the *only* good stuff like many Americans often claim.)

I believe MLS TV ratings on national mainstream networks are already higher than NHL games on equivalents. And of course as we now the number of MLS fans streaming games online is legendary and higher than any other sport! :P

OK all joking aside maybe it's not as high as the TFC fanboys on SSP claim, but I am willing to concede it's probably higher than the number of people streaming NHL games in the U.S.

^ I wouldn't ever expect MLS to dominate its sport the way that, say, MLB or the NFL dominate theirs, but I could see the day coming where 30 years down the road, MLS sits in the upper echelon of soccer leagues and competes for top talent. Maybe not at a EPL or La Liga level, but maybe along the lines of the French or Russian leagues.

There is just so much money in the US that if they took even a rudimentary level of fan interest in the game, it would be enough to make them a powerhouse.

Which is precisely what happened with hockey and the NHL.

I think one can make an argument that MLS is somewhere in the teens in regards to overall league quality today. Somewhere below Switzerland and Brazil but above Greece and Scotland, at least IMO. Ranking MLS 14th or 15th in the world wouldn't be unreasonable right now I don't think. MLS club quality is certainly trending up but the league needs better continental results in the CONCACAF Champions League.

This likely won't happen. Three is probably the maximum number of teams MLS will have in Canada, unless they have some bizarre plan to go with more than 32 teams.

I know you're generalizing Americans but I think the real rah-rah chest-bumping American types you're portraying aren't going to be your typical soccer fans. Most American soccer fans are completely cognizant of the fact that MLS is nowhere near being a top league in the world. EPL and LigaMX are still more popular and will be for a bit longer yet.

Wait, you mean it wasn't a bad idea to put hockey teams in California, Texas, and Florida? :hmmm:

https://www.vancourier.com/canadian-...ner-1.23640212

Canadian Premier League joins forces with Spain-based media partner

TORONTO — Less than 10 weeks before kickoff, the Canadian Premier League has unveiled its media partner with ambitious plans to showcase soccer in Canada.

Spain-based Mediapro has struck a 10-year deal with Canada Soccer Business, which represents Canada's national teams as well as the fledgling CPL, which kicks off its inaugural season April 27.

A source said Mediapro is investing $200 million into the Canadian project over the lifetime of the deal. Scott Mitchell, CEO of Canadian Soccer Business, calls it "the single-largest commitment any company has ever made in terms of soccer in Canada."

The agreement gives Mediapro global and domestic media rights to the CPL, the Canadian Championship and rights for all home games of the Canadian men's and women's teams. It also includes rights to League 1 Ontario matches, a feeder league under the CPL umbrella.

...

That means the CPL has someone to handle its game production. Mediapro, which has some 70 production trucks worldwide, currently produces games in 16 different leagues.

The initial plan is to have all CPL games available via the league's app/soccer streaming channel, with some matches for free. Viewers will have to pay to get more.

But Mediapro is open to anything, looking for partners on any platform. Mitchell says there has been a "serious appetite" from Canadian domestic partners.

Will TSN or Sprtsnet be broadcasting CPL games? Have they released a broadcast schedule?

If TSN/SN/DAZN/CBC want to broadcast CPL matches they have to purchase them through MediaPro. Would be on top of the $200M already committed by MediaPro to CSB. MediaPro will be acting as the video production unit for CPL content who will then potentially distribute broadcast rights further.

Full league schedule is due out next week.

Doesn't really fit here but nowhere else to put it. There is a TV connection though.

Nearly nobody at Salt Lake City AAF home opener and the broadcasters don’t care either
3Down Staff February 23, 2019

https://twitter.com/i/status/1099401151840223233


https://i.imgur.com/B3ft3O3.png

Somebody's gonna get fired :(

The NFL already has its feeder league, it's called the NCAA. It also has a finishing school if it wants it in the CFL. These rich Americans trying to hive off a slice of the pro football money tree could better use their money to finance primary and secondary school in poorer regions and cities in America. Sadly that'll never happen.

There was a funny quote on twitter, "Nobody's watching, nobody's listening, nobody cares" will be the title of the ESPN 30 for 30 doc next year.

In all seriousness, a spring league could make it if the owners didn't want to be NFL wannabees. The USFL had a decent shot at it until a guy named Donald Trump came along. Never underestimate people's penchant for greed.

Keeping on topic with items that aren't Canadian:

For NHL fans who might want fewer outdoor games, PIT/PHI did really well on NBC last night. Via NBCPR:

Last night’s #StadiumSeries overtime thriller between the @penguins and @NHLFlyers on NBC was the most-watched Stadium Series game since 2014, producing a 1.38 overnight rating; up 17% from the same matchup in 2017.

Saturday night’s #StadiumSeries game on NBC delivered the highest local ratings ever in the Pittsburgh (16.9) and Philadelphia (6.3) markets for any Penguins or Flyers regular-season games, excluding Winter Classics.

Also, 70K people showed up, so that's something. My quick math says that a 16.9 in Pittsburgh is roughly 190K TVs and a 6.3 in Philadelphia is roughly 200K TVs.

The fundamental mistake that so many of these upstart leagues are making is assuming that they can make enough people care right away to put large crowds in the stadiums and get a lucrative broadcasting deal right from day one.

Even the NFL didn't become the NFL overnight. It was second fiddle to college football probably until about the 60s. And even in the 60s, games with attendances under 20,000 were still very common.

I wouldn't call myself a NHL fan who wants fewer outdoor games, I'm just surprised at the willingness of fans to constantly lap them up, particularly in person where you're paying a stiff premium for a lousy view and a game where there's a strong chance that the conditions will worsen the quality of play.

But yeah, if you can pack the joint with 70,000 people and get a bunch more than usual watching on TV, then that guarantees the stadium games will continue to be a frequent sideshow on the NHL schedule.

I think one problem is that they assumed people are starving for more football once the Super Bowl is over. After months of NCAA and the NFL, I think football fans want a bit of a break from it. Week 1 of the AAF started the very next weekend after the SB. To me that feels way too soon. They should wait at least 1 month. I know they want a whole month without competing with baseball, but if people are starving for football - they'd go to it regardless.

In any case, I think this will ultimately tell us if Americans think the NCAA and NFL are enough to satisfy their football craving, or if they want more. If this fails, even with the backing of the NFL, it would be sheer stupidity to make any other attempts for another league.

Believe it or not even the University of Toronto had higher average attendance than the NFL at one point. It was only a tad higher but still.

Saw that the Spurs/Raps game this weekend was the most-watched regular season game ever in Canada. Average of 710,000 and a total 2.5 million unique viewers.

That's a big jump. Kawhi's debut with the team set the record at 528K earlier in the season.

https://www.tsn.ca/leonard-making-ra...e-tv-1.1198256

This is just your assumption and opinion as American interest and appetite before football still has room. Silly to think two upstart leagues didn't do thier homework. Both AAF and XFL recognized there is still (as crazy as it sounds) more demand for football. Replays of old games on NFL network still gets better ratings than many scripted shows. Football and it's connection tonAnerica makes no sense, it is thier equivalent to Canadian the obsession with hockey.

My bet is one of the two upstart leagues will survive and thrive, not sure who it will be but we will see with time.

Right, replays of old NFL games are getting good ratings.
Americans may still have an appetite for more football, but that just might mean they want more NCAA and NFL (ie. more games + more teams). It doesn't necessarily mean they want more football from a different league.

There's been a history of failed football leagues in the US after all.

It's still way too early to determine either way, so maybe one of the leagues will succeed. But if none of them do, I have to believe that will answer the question as to whether there's enough interest in pro football outside the NCAA and NFL.

Via TSNPR:

Yesterday, @TSN_Sports #TradeCentre coverage attracted an average audience of 143,000 viewers, 61% higher than its closest competitor. The 10-hour special reached a total of 1.9 million unique Canadian viewers, an increase of 5% from last year.

TSN digital platforms recorded over 3 million video starts on #TradeCentre, more than doubling the network’s previous single-day record, as well as 11 million page views, including more than 880,000 on the Trade Deadline Blog alone.

TSN’s #TradeCentre posts generated more than 16 million impressions on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook throughout the day.