Most Canadian: Okotoks
Least Canadian: Okotoks

I'd agree with London if the question was "what's the quintessential Anglo-Canadian city".

Moncton is a better test market for any business that wants to get a feel of how its product will perform in (all of) Canada. (Moncton, or Montreal. Or Ottawa. All better fits than London.)

I think Quebec is one of the leas Canadian cities. It's historic, urban form, and 100% French culture and ethnic make-up is completely different from anyother city in the country. It's strong support of the independence movement exemplifies this further. Just because a city is the oldest doesn't mean it represents the country.

Montreal yes, Quebec definatly not.

I like how the cities end up just being a proxy for people to define their version of what "real Canada" is.

"The coldest, blandest, neutral place is most Canadian"....haha

Probably the only clear expression of our national identity: things to do.

All I can say is that there's a huge difference between Canadians with ancestry dating back a hundred or more years and first and second generation like myself. Toronto fits as both the most and the least. I felt the same about other major Canadian cities.

Cool idea for a thread. It's just beyond me.

;)

Most Canadian: the Montreal Canadiens. 24 Stanley Cups. Beat that, Red Deer.

Some thought experiments:

Canada annexes the Turks and Caicos islands and in a fit of imperial exuberance adopts many of their symbols on our money. We get a brown pelican on our $20 bill, etc. Are the Turks and Caicos suddenly on the "most Canadian" list because of this redefinition?

Canada annexes Greenland. Newfoundland is no longer at a geographical/cultural extremum. Does SSP start listing the "least Canadian" places as Windsor ON and Nuuk, with St. John's dropping off of the list?

Most: London, KW, Stratford

Depends what neighbourhood: Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver

Least: Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver

If you're hanging out with old stock Canadians (roots go back to 1600-1840s) then parts of Toronto still feel Canadian - Leslieville, the Beach, the Junction. Similar areas exist in Vancouver and Montreal.

Good points but I suppose that this was not a direct answer to my post?

As for the Bluenose on the dime, it's been there for close to 100 years I think. And Nova Scotia was one of the four original provinces in Confederation.

So I wouldn't say the Bluenose on a coin is something perfunctory that is just there to prove a point.

How very Torontonian of you! :haha:

This Canadianistic stuff is semi-interesting, but we're just too busy doing more important shit with New York and New Delhi. Tah tah, dears. :haha:

(Please don't take offence. Just teasing! :))

...............

Of course it is there because of an effort to incorporate symbols from every part of Canada. I wonder if it really is a national rather than provincial cultural symbol though. Do people in Regina feel pride about the Bluenose? Do they generally understand the significance of it, or is it just the thing on the dime?

If our definition of "Canadian" is merely "from the geographical area now known as Canada" we don't have a rich discussion topic. Using the same standard you could say Scotland is just and British as England because they've both been parts of the UK for hundreds of years. The Stone of Scone is just another item in the same cultural collection as Buckingham palace.

Part of the difficulty is that "Canada" is overloaded as both an older cultural term and the name of a country. It would be like if England were the name of the UK today.

I'd say that issue goes far beyond this thread. It's actually the very essence of the Canadian identity and culture conundrum. We did not invent it here on SSP.

Most: Edmonton, Ottawa and Moncton for most of the reasons others have already listed. I’ve found all three to be friendly, welcoming and proudly Canadian. They represent ‘peace, order and good government’.

Least: Calgary - again for the reasons mentioned by a Calgarian above. Visiting does feel like going into a pocket of something different.. hmm, gotta think about this one a bit more.

Victoria - well, living here colours my perspective, but for so many reasons it feels different, not sure if that makes it less Canadian, who knows, maybe we’re the most Canadian - yah, no. Victorians are proudly Canadian as much as you’ll find anywhere, but Canadian is defined by the ideals that we stand for and less so the way of life, culture, attitudes, etc.

Partly a reality of living on an island, and an island where it’s very time consuming and/or expensive to arrive or leave. It does lead to an island mentality, which at times can be limiting, on the other hand it does result in greater local innovation and creativity. Victoria elects Green Party politicians federally and provincially, in some tidings the leading two candidates are the NDP, then Green, followed by Liberals and finally the Conservatives. So there is that massive overriding left leaning, and environmental perspective, whatever you think of that.

It doesn’t feel or look like the rest of Canada - you can see the geographical difference when you arrive back in Victoria and you can feel it too. While a lot of people enjoy going over to the mainland for the weekend as soon as they drive off the ferry there is a sigh of relief.. things are slower and more grounded.

What makes it feel less Canadian - a disdain of large companies, chain restaurants, anything large scale really. When we have colleagues visit from Edmonton they all want to go to Earl’s, Cactus Club or Milestones without fail. We snobbishly judge them - those places are for tourists who don’t know better. BTW, I swear Edmonton is the most meat and potatoes city ever when it comes to liking basic food. Even finding a restaurant large enough to handle larger work groups (more than 8!) is a near impossibility, usually means going to a pub right after work and having them put a few tables together. Unlike other Canadian cities I’ve been too most of the restaurants here a little holes in the wall, with limited seating. The smaller the better, it’s deemed as more authentic - Victorians don’t like to see anything get too big and successful because then it’s a sign of being a capitalist sellout.

Other things just look different here - billboards are not allowed, the only advertising you’ll see is at bus stops, business signs also face strict size limits, so it leaves a less cluttered look. Also, Victoria has by the far the highest percentage of people who walk or bike to work, bike traffic is everywhere, as are walkers, runners, joggers, water based activities. You really notice that difference compared to other cities.

Watching Canadiana on TV - can’t relate when they speak to the stereotypes - the cold, the wide open prairies, kids playing on frozen ponds and rivers. Tired of seeing that on hockey broadcasts with Ron McLean (maybe the most Canadian person ever - although he’s annoying as heck). We have no frozen rivers or lakes (although some years there is one field in town that gets flooded with enough water and then can freeze allowing kids to skate for a few days). The only outdoor hockey is street hockey or indoors - which probably explains why Victoria has supplied only 19 players ever to the NHL, only four of whom have over 200 career points.

While the origins were British, Victoria looks more to Asia for inspiration even though that population is lower than Vancouver. In many ways Victoria is cautious.. we built one commie block back in the 1970s and it still haunts and influences what happens today. We’re sceptical of any new trend or style, we only know for sure ‘we don’t want to be like Vancouver’. As a result, new development is small scale, and at times feels quite random and quirky. Unlike Vancouver, Victoria did not go in for the all glass condos. I’m sure there’s more, but that’s enough wild generalizations and anecdotal stories for one day, lol.

I forgot what a nickel looked like, perhaps a very Canadian trait. We need to put the Bluenose on our Visa cards instead.

For the purposes of this thread you need to define what (more or less) Canadian actually means. I think more Canadian means things that are defined by the outside world as Canadian, also things that are shared within the country by the majority of people, but not by people outside the country, therefore more common or average here.

So in conclusion, everyone has a different opinion on what Canadian means.

Yeah when I think "Canadiana" I really envision those romantic ads of wide open expanses of frozen lakes and kids skating alone on it with a hockey stick, usually against a backdrop of sunset/sunrise. Then of working class moms and dads driving their kids to hockey practice at 5 in the morning on a snowy winter morning. The true hinterlands of the country. I guess Tim Horton's / Olympics 2010 marketing got to me.

The Prairies (sans Calgary) from Alberta to Northwest Ontario really feel to me as the most quintessentially Canadian, again maybe from marketing and personal travels. Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Thunder Bay. Classically Canadian attributes. But the country is a heck of a lot more and what I learned is that Canada would be much significantly less interesting without all the parts that make its whole. The BC coast, much of Quebec, Toronto and NL I think would be the "least Canadian", but yet every bit as much part of Canada. Imagine the US without California or Northern Virginia.

Pretty much a foregone conclusion on this site.

The great thing about Canadian is that we can have it mean literally whatever we want it to mean.

Most: That would have to be just about anywhere in Quebec; Ottawa, too, I suppose.

Least: Hamilton, perhaps Toronto. Hamilton is just an extension of the Mid-West. You could plop it down anywhere in Upstate NY, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. and nobody would bat an eye...

So we're going by residence duration of one's ancestors now? :koko:

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned First Nations Reserves as feeling the most "Canadian". Heck there's probably no place more Canadian by far than our Territories if you subscribe to the Bering Strait Migration theory. If by city then Winnipeg should be #1 based solely on their proportion of First Nations population.

Victoria feels the most English-Canadian to me, as in how us English used to live in Canada pre-1960s. I like it. Laid back, quiet money. It's the opposite of Markham or Vaughan. Peterborough, parts of Barrie and Orillia, old London, North Vancouver still have this feel. Victoria also feels the most American - it reminds me of parts of north Seattle, Portland or Medford or Petaluma. It's got this almost Colonial English vibe to it.

Last week when I was in London, I went shopping for groceries: It felt like I was in a suburban Victoria grocery store. Friendly, attractive English people.

An interesting book I've got, "The Tourist for 1836" describes Toronto:
"York ... presents more nearly the appearance of an American village than any other in the Canadas: there are a great number of stores, and many of them are kept by young men from the States. It is uncommonly thriving; and the value of property is nearly as high as in the city of New-York: more than 300 buildings were erected in 1833."

Generally speaking, yes. Though taken to the extreme you get into "diminishing returns".

What's the most "American" Big City in the United States? In terms of representing the most "American" cross-section of the population and being the prototypical American City? Surely not New York (too cosmopolitan), or Chicago (too ethnically plural), or LA or Miami or Houston or Phoenix or San Diego (too Hispanic), or Atlanta or Washington (too African American), or Seattle or San Francisco (too Tekkie), or Detroit or Cleveland or Pittsburgh (too Rustbelty). Probably not Denver. Definitely not Salt Lake City or Vegas or Portland.

Dallas? Minneapolis? Columbus? Nashville?

Jacksonville? Or is that too much like Toronto (e.g., skyline)?

I have always associated Niagara Falls as being 'least Canadian'. It is a place (prior to the pandemic) dominated by American tourists and restaurant chains. I always thought that if Americans really wanted to experience Canada, they needed to go beyond Niagara Falls. This is from someone who actually enjoys Niagara Falls.

It seems that in any country (what's the least French city in France?) the cities on the peripheries will generally be the least representative of that country's identity.

Boston.

I mean, you're talking to someone who doesn't really believe in the notion of Canadian as it pertains to people. We all happen to live in Canada but we're all a mash of whatever our background is. It's a shared-experience with wildly different language, cultural, and social backings. Canadian is a blank slate that can be whatever we want it to be on that day, for better or for worse.

I love Boston but I find it is not very representative of the Excited States.

Cleveland for the US.

I don't think there is a such a thing as the stereotypical Canadian city as the regions are all quite different. If I had to pick: Edmonton for 'Most Canadian' and Toronto for 'Least Canadian'.

All good and relevant points when it comes to Victoria.

I find it kind of odd that there is never any mention of the annual influx of Canadians from across the country who are posted to the RCN.
You get young people from NS to BC coming each year to live during some if not a majority of their careers.
There is a story that every time the city council wants to get rid of the militant symbols that mar the beauty of Victoria, the Admiral heads down to city hall to remind the Lisa Helps and Ben Isitt types how much the Navy supports the tax base of the region.
I've lived in the area on 4 separate occasions. I hope to come back for a 5th time to stay, but it looks like I'll need to find a lonely widow behind the Tweed Curtain to afford the place!:D

:D Toronto is just Cleveland with clean water! :runaway:

Most American big city is Chicago.

The answer to this question depends on how you define "Canadianess" (geographically, climatologically, historically, ethnoculturally etc).

By my own definition, I tend to look at historical and ethnocultural factors and tend therefore to lean towards a Laurentian view of Canada, and as such, the epitome of Canada lies in the Montreal/Ottawa axis. These therefore are two of my cities. For ethnocultural reasons (and for homerism), I will choose Moncton as city #3. :)

As for the three least Canadian cities, I will choose cities that I view as more American in their character, and will choose Niagara Falls and Windsor ON, and Calgary AB. I like these cities (although Clifton Hill is a bit over the top), but all have been contaminated by close contact with the USA, and have been partially inculcated with an quasi American mindset.

I don't think it's really that vague and complicated as we like to make it out to be. Foreigners don't have much trouble figuring out what's Canadian.

I would agree. Chicago does a good job of reflecting the culture of the big cosmopolitan American cities, while also being somewhat steeped in midwestern culture which is also a huge part of the US. I suppose the climate is a bit on the cool side considering the large part of the American population that now lives in the southern states.

A place like Kenora, Ontario probably covers all the stereotype bases except for the Francophone angle:

- In a boreal woodland/lake/cottage-y setting with floatplanes and canoes
- In Ontario, but catering to Manitobans (so sort of an east-meets-west connection)
- A railway-age downtown containing a mix of baronial limestone, brick and wooden architecture
- From left to right, this street scene contains a Western craftsman bungalow, a stone house that could belong in Central or Atlantic Canada, and a standard wood-sided bungalow that could be anywhere from Newfoundland to BC.

Lots of lonely widows - sound strategy! ;) Good point, despite being Canada’s west coast naval base, the navy does seem to be taken for granted in Victoria. Besides the welcome sign to Victoria and a few statues around town there is little recognition and it’s rarely mentioned even by Victorians. Is this the case in Halifax?

There is an anti-military/hippie/environmental attitude that is widespread, so maybe that’s part of it. You mentioned Ben Isitt, probably one of the most controversial city councillors in Canada - I can go on and on about his antics, but he’s enthralled with the former Soviet Union, and a communist sympathizer if not full on supporter. He’s promoted removing all symbols of Christmas, renaming Victoria, is strongly anti-military and anti-police. Yet he consistently tops the polls.. and the rest of Victoria city council (with one or two exceptions), while not as extreme isn’t far off his positions - and is dominated by University ideologues.

I almost did close to that in my post earlier, but in the end left it out (for a shorter post).

One angle that can be used here (as explained in that earlier post) is how much of the local stuff is "homegrown" (i.e. Canadian) as opposed to being "imported" (which usually means Anglo-American).

So with that view, a place like Quebec City is among the most homegrown/Canadian that you can find (especially for a city of a certain size), while places like Vancouver, Calgary and Southern Ontario would be some of the most "American" in the country, a.k.a. "least Canadian".

A city like Yellowknife would rank quite high as "Canadian" i.e. pretty well shielded from non-Canadian imports (cultural or material).

My impression is that the navy is much more recognized in Halifax. It feels like more of a port town (finger wharves and now modern container terminals) and has the shipyard. The naval history is much deeper on the East Coast; in the 1700's and early 1800's the navy was what held the British Empire together, but by the late 1800's the railways became more important.

Halifax was founded as one of the primary British naval bases in the Americas; a stopping point between Britain and the US coast or the Caribbean.

Practically all of the big military campaigns of Canadian history were based out of Halifax. Quebec, Washington DC and Baltimore in 1812, etc. Even Crimea and the Northwest Rebellion ended up involving troops deployed from Halifax. A lot of the monuments around town relate to those events.

I think this is largely forgotten today but the British ran the naval facilities in Canada until 1907. Until that period many of the people living in Victoria or Halifax were from Britain but deployed in Canada. The naval officers were some of the local establishment figures with admirals being like governors.

Yeah, that's why I was kind of uncertain about listing it. Other than the Canadiens, Montreal doesn't factor much into life in Northern Ontario, even despite a sizable Francophone population.

In an alternate universe where Canada is 50% Anglo and 50% Franco perhaps it occupies a place like Brussels does in Belgium, sans being the capital. Or if you go 50-60 years back in time to the 1960s and ask the same question. I think I was perhaps projecting there.

I guess if I'm using the 'most Canadian' descriptor, I'm looking for a place where:

- it covers the demographic nature of the whole country reasonably well
- it catches the 'vibe' of an average Canadian, such that we can agree or disagree on such a thing
- I could actually see someone from anywhere in Canada being able to function there in a real fashion
- the climate, economy and geography reflect the country as best it can

Basically, I'm not going to disagree with anyone who lists Ottawa, Edmonton or Moncton either as most 'Canadian'.

Or who lists Calgary, Hamilton and Windsor as being least 'Canadian'.

Not that I particularly feel like I'm out of the country in those places, to be perfectly honest.

As for US cities, Chicago is a good choice. Dallas or Atlanta would be my second, but they might be too regional, too new. I'd actually struggle more with that question with respect to that country, as finding something that encompasses a nation as diverse as the United States is a big challenge. Or a place that isn't America at all.

I think the history of active combat, especially during the world wars, has really cemented the navy as part of the civic identity in a way that I don't get the sense is replicated in Victoria.

At the same time, the civic culture is certainly not bellicose or militaristic or anything. It mostly fades into the background. In my experience the concentration of academic institutions is a bigger contributor to the local sense of place, but that may also have to do with where I live and my colleagues and social circles, etc.

The fact that the military bases are located in Esquimalt rather than Victoria also helps disassociate it from Victoria. Halifax was established as a military fortification and the large citadel is central to its core.

For the States, I'd choose San Juan and Honolulu as the least American. Anchorage doesn't strike me as being as distinct from the continental United States as the other two.

For most American... I guess the NYC all the way out to its exurbs. Upstate NY even does a good enough job of representing the South.

A lot of these notions about Victoria are just myths. Victorians love fast food chains, Starbucks, Tim Hortons, 7-11, and drive-throughs. Per capita comparisons with other supposedly unhealthy/unenlightened Canadian cities have never been flattering.

Also, Victorians fetishize their Wal-Mart supercentres and big box shopping generally, which is one of the reasons why the downtown core has taken such a massive hit in the past ~30 years.

It really depends on whether one is talking about being most Canadian functionally or symbolically. If we're looking at it in terms of functionally, this would be a matter of determining how the largest number of people live. By default this would be the metro area with the largest population, especially with the most people living in generic Canadian suburbia which is pretty similar in cities across the country. Since Toronto has the largest proportion of the country's population, it would therefore be most Canadian. In terms of symbolically, this would be the city that best represents the spirit or essence of the country. These would consider far more than how people currently live since it would also include history, imagery and icons. For instance, Canada is often thought of as being defined by nature and wilderness due to its low population density so a city being near mountains and pristine forest would give the city a boost in that category. So in that respect Vancouver would be more Canadian than Toronto or Montreal but probably less-so than Yellowknife.

Montreal on the other hand doesn't seem to have a fairly low proportion of it's population in traditional suburbia and seems fairly detached from large expanses of forest, instead being surrounded by farmland. So it would be an option for least Canadian symbolically. However, being so large it has a greater proportion of the total population than most cities so functionally it would be toward the top.

Some local historians (Thomas Raddall, etc.) used to argue that Halifax was most "in the war" city in Canada during both WWI and WWII (with a fatality rate to match). The Halifax Explosion and Magazine Hill were a part of that. The city was also under blackouts in WWII, with people wondering if and when bombings would start. For a while, people thought the Explosion was caused by Germans.

Most people who lived in Halifax in the 90's or so had relatives alive who were in WWII, remembered the Explosion, etc. The Cold War also had a big impact on the city. That is probably fading now.