If you travel and/or live outside out of WNY, it's really apparent that it's bad here.

I'll second what Halovet says - is your name "Pataki" by chance ;)

No

I lived in Lexington KY for 3 years--traveled frequently to Nashville and Raleigh, before moving back here. Sorry but I like here--a lot. The economy is just different here that's all and that's not necessarily a bad thing. What I see has WNY's biggest problem, perhaps all of upstate is costs associated with running a small business. Bigger players like HSBC and Citi don't necessarily face the same obstacles a small business has--IDA's will fall all over themselves giving breaks benefits to big projects. What really set the Southeast apart as a whole was the number of small startups happening. It wasn't huge companies--although there were plenty--but tons of small and medium businesses that filled the gaps--that's what WNY doesn't have enough of. However, I still believe the area as a whole has turned a significant corner.

[QUOTE=Sulley]If you travel and/or live outside out of WNY, it's really apparent that it's bad here.

"Ain't that the truth" and things are getting worst everyday.

After this post I'm done commenting on the state of the economy. Having absurd sprawl around a city does not make for a hot economy--check back in 20 years to places that have been overwhelmed with infrastructure costs.

Back to Buffalo--"Ain't that the truth" and things are getting worst everyday. This is an absurd statement not based on anything that's happening in Buffalo. Last I checked there were a multitude of large and small projects happening around downtown. As for population loss--Buffalo needs to show some guts and dispute the population freefall stats coming from the census bureau. They tried to do the same thing to St. Louis and St. Louis disputed the figures which actually led to a population increase.

[quote=FireMedic]
Nice to have you back Fprmer!

Ellicott Commons Update (Sept 15)
 

from the blog AllThingsBuffalo: http://www.allthingsbuffalo.wnymedia.net/?p=280

http://static.flickr.com/93/24414551...9f9be6.jpg?v=0
http://static.flickr.com/92/24414553...46584a.jpg?v=0

"If you decide to enjoy your lunch from Washington Market on their patio you will be enchated with the sounds of serious construction going on right next to you at the Ellicott Commons.
This part of Downtown has soooo much potential to be a contempoary, young, cool place. Here’s hoping that once the commons are up and running, we’ll see the infamous Genesee block next to it developed."

Also from AllThingsBuffalo Blog
 

oops double post

Also from AllThingsBuffalo Blog (285 Delaware)
 

http://www.allthingsbuffalo.wnymedia.net/?p=279

http://static.flickr.com/98/24414555...5a193a.jpg?v=0
above image from AllThingsBuffalo blog
http://www.buffalorising.com/city/ar...5_delaware.jpg
above rendering image from BuffaloRising

"Large, inflatable rats can only delay 285 Delaware so long. The mix of unionized and non-unionized workers have put up a couple stories of steel on this 5 story building that will be mostly occupied by M&T."

[QUOTE=steel]I think he's you - afterall, the grammatical styles are very similar. At least I can spell.

:D

And what do you say to those cities that are rapidly densifying in the core at the same time?

While I believe Buffalo is much better than it was in the 70s/80s, do you honestly believe that the city is increasing in population when even the metro is declining? That's quite the stretch, IMO.

[quote=Sulley] He could be you since both of you confuse fiction with fact.

I said I was done talking about the economy

By the way it's great to see steel framing around downtown--there's a lot more coming in the near future. Nice updates WIGS.

[QUOTE=steel]You know Steel, Sulley just happens to be your favorite jousting partner on SSC. If SSC ever comes back up, check out the Non-development page and look back a few pages to a couple weeks ago when we were discussing vehicles for the winter. It was all started by someone who happened to buy a vehicle on Ebay who happened to have sulley in their Ebay name... ;)

What do I confuse? Show me examples.

Come on... showwww. I think I have a much more realistic view of Buffalo than some of the overzealous boosters on here. Methinks BushCo. shared some of their KoolAid with certain Buffalonians ;)

Okay, fine... go on thinking that the cit of Buffalo is increasing in population. While it would be fantastic if that were the case, it's just not happening.

He knows... oh, he knows. I just don't mess around at SSP as much. SSC is just too fun though.

:whip:

Sulley - while I don't believe that everyone here thinks that Buffalo is a boom town at the moment, I certainly don't find it fair that you must cut people up for posting positive changes and developments occuring in the city. There is so much going on right now that is positive, many people are very happy at the turnaround occuring for the area.

I am sure there are some forums out there that bash Buffalo - maybe you should join one of those boards where people would be interested in hearing what a 3rd rate city you think Buffalo is. - Also, I had asked you this before......"WHY DO YOU EVEN LIVE THERE?"....:shrug:

Show me where I have cut people down for posting positive developments in the city/metro. I just questioned him on whether he actually believes that Buffalo is gaining population.

Again, show me... and I'll retract what I've said.

I don't believe I ever once said that Buffalo or WNY in general was booming. Nope I don't think the word boom ever was typed by my fingers. What I did say is that I think Buffalo has turned an important corner--a corner which has nothing to do with most of the politacal maneuvering happing locally or in NYS. It is this--Buffalo is becoming interestering to developers--both local, national and international. People see real opportunities here--that's big, because it provides downtown with the private investment it needs to reinvent itself as the region's hub.

By the way--the Buffalo news mentioned during the last census that Buffalo turned down an offer from a private firm to find more people in the city. Rochester however did use the firm's services and added many people to their final count. In fact census 2000 found that metro Rochester grew from 1990-2000. What if Erie county and Buffalo had more vision at the time to hire this firm. What would population estimates look like? As far as metro Buffalo's population losses--it includes industrial graveyards like Niagara Falls (my hometown), Lackawanna, and others, which cancel growing suburbs like Clarence, OP, and Amherst. When these cities right their ships it will have a huge impact on the Metro's population.

I like this conversation though--it's fun. I'm frustrated by our area's gloomy view of itself and I choose change. Why would I stay here if I hated it?

:previous: Sulley--you made me break my promise! :P

are we getting our sully's mistaken here, i believe you were asking me "Why do i even live here" chevy.

and i happen to agree with a lot of the things downtown is saying, i moved here about five years ago and it seems in there has been more good news in that time span, particularly in the past 2 years than this area has had in a long time. Further more it is time for people to start changing their minds about the city and the region.

I am confused on the Sulley's......:haha:

This is great post! I for one am sick of all the negative bashing of the city. It IS time to turn a new corner and present a more positive image of the area!

Boli,

Those towns are not growing...they are canibalizing the other municipalities. There is a big difference between real growth and people just moving around within the region. As Amherst et al keep sprawling outward with no controll they also add more and more infrastructure to the area. That infrastructure is payed for by fewer and fewer people and the people in the so calle industrial graveyards are footing the bill.

I agree. It's good to have things happening downtown, but IMO, these developers are playing catch-up -- building things that downtown Buffalo has lacked (compared to other cities) for years. I hope the trend continues and we see larger and more prominent developments in the near future.

In all honesty, areas like Clarence and Amherst are growing, but is their growth benefiting the area? What I mean is this -- most of the new residents in these suburbs have relocated from other cities/towns in WNY and there is very little new in-migration. It's like Cheektowaga in the 70s -- while the city was bleeding population, the Cheek was booming. Now people are leaving the older suburbs and thus repeating the cycle. We need people moving in from other areas for real growth.

Wow, steel and I agree! Well said, jerk.

;)

BTW, I am the real Sulley.

:D

I disagree somewhat with the idea that our outer-ring suburbs cannibalize the older cities in our region. I'm going to use the example of my parents church congregation in Clarence. There are many there from among the upper middle class who are originally from other areas of the country and are part of the shifting middle management corporate chain. Yes there are others who were originally from the city of Buffalo or whose parents lived in Buffalo. Buffalo's suburbs act as suburbs do in other areas of the country--none of this should be a surprise. What is finally happening is that the city is beginning to understand the need to re-invent itself. My sister, an artist, is moving from Clarence to Allentown--opportunies for her are good there. Sully mentioned this earlier--cities and suburbs can grow together--one need not suffer at the expense of the other. Buffalo needs to accentuate its urban flavor and cultural opportunities. The surburbs will continue to provide a place for large companies to locate back-office operations on sprawling campuses. If companies like both, we need to provide both. I think Geico and possibly Citi benefit the area a great deal.

Secondly, I think people are down on the region because we have fallen from such a high place. Check out those Gilded Age mansions featured on BR. Impressive! Buffalo will probably not recover the status it once had 100 years ago, but it can and should be and will be a great city and a great place to live and locate or start a business. We should preserve the past, but we need to learn from it and to a certain exent let it go. We haunt ourselves by looking at pictures from the past, from "the way things used to be," and saying, "what a shame--we used to great." We ought to be asking where the opportunity is and seek to bring history to life, even while reinventing ourselves for the future.

I'm definitely interested in hearing more thoughts...this is a great conversation to have.

Except for a very few cities in the USA our urban downtowns are all crap holes not much better than Buffalo if at all. Even your beloved B’ham has a crap hole of a downtown and that is the truth. American cities are an embarrassment in the urbanism department.

You people are funny !
How can you say things are getting better ?
Are you forgeting, HELLO !
Erie County Control Board
City of Buffalo Control Board
Highest taxes in the Country (46 times higher then the nation average)
and theirs already multi million dolllars deficits for 2008 & 2009
population loses speeding Up ! you can see it everwhere
Hospital Closings , Fire Station Closings , Police Station Closings , Church closings & School Closings , on top of
all at the empty buildings from all the business's that went out of business, factorys, retail stores, restaurants, grocery stores. new car dealerships, and even whole strip plazas etc., most of them were in business 2 or 3 years ago.

So here we realize why SSP was >> than SSC. But I must break my silence.

Bpt youir funiere!

So the CPR (Sertified Pubic Retard) lives
Hear as well!
Yea I Enjpy paying 13x my Selery in texas (46 x 30%)

Get a life, deusche. Don't try dragging us all into your misery, it isn't, and won't ever work.:Titanic:

AND LEARN GRAMMAR!!!!!!

So to recap -

Explain how a control board is bad for the county, and how it's done the city so much damage?

Please elaborate on the Police, Fire, and School closings. I haven't heard of any reductions in staff in either. Actually, they remain overbloated, and that is part of the problem. So even in your blind idiocy of a stab-in-the-dark-out-of-envy rant, you accidentally stumble upon a solution. The irony is amazing.

Church closings - How about other cities? I know of some smaller ones going from 6 to 1. 1, that's right. Explain how that's a better situation, using examples from this room.

As for the abandoned grocery stores, where are they? I know of a few, but it's because they were replaced by larger stores. And actually only one is full-time abandoned. If there is one thing that WNY is in no threat of, it's a shortage of grocery stores. Another grossly misinformed and idiotic comment. Same thing with the strip malls. The few dead ones I know of have been dead for a loooooooonnnnnnng time. Sometimes 20-30 years (South Shore in Hamburg, anyone?). But I thought Hamburg, especially southern Hamburg was - growing?!?! There's a noodle-scratcher for ya.

And abandoned car dealers? WHERE?!?!? I WANT TO LIVE THERE!!! Where I live, there are too many opening!!!! Die, Billy Fucillo, Die!

I'll agree, the population is falling. Some might argue it's addition by subtraction (a mathematical phenomenon above your feeble grasp). In fact, maybe the only thing falling faster is your IQ and that of everyone who comes within 3 AU (astronomical units) of you on a daily basis. Make sure you watch your step and don't fall through the hole it just created in the floor in front of you.

Seeing the signs of decline speeding up? Maybe where you live. I see it accelerating too, but in the other direction.

I think you're forgetting that there are just as many positives as negatives to be found. Perhaps nothing more evident than your chronic posting of the same 5 or so tired topics, whereas there has been a relative revolving door of positives in the last 2-3 years. But of course you'd forget, you never knew in the first place as the Good Lord never endowed you with functioning grey matter.

Face it, Buffalo is too real for you, and you just don't want to own up to it. You just weren't smart enough to make it work. Bad for you, good for us. Now to leave you in the dust...goodbye!!! :hi:

Ouch, you got passed by Buffalo. Our first victim.

Sorry, I'll go back to lurking.:lurk:


Aaaaannnyways...

While I was wasting away my afternoon/evening waiting for my oil change, Channel 7 had a good spot on the official ribbon cutting for the Granite Works project. Looks to me to be a massive improvement over even the pre-fire condition.

Ellicott Commons looks good too, work seems to have picked up quite a bit in just the past few weeks. At least noticable exterior work. Ditto New Era and 285 Delaware.

What do Buffalonians (here, and in real life) mean by the city "being too real?"

I don't really know. Maybe because it just doesn't have a "pretty face". It's tough to quantify. Same with the "City of No Illusions" moniker. "We have problems, and we're not about to hide it; deal with it".

Actually the last time I've heard it was in relation to the NY Times article (or it may have been in it). Most times I've heard it, it's actually been out-of-town writers. Maybe they're just using what works, maybe not. I don't know.

I never heard the phrase before

We just disagree on if things are getting better or worst in Buffalo !

Watch for a Major announcement of Mega Entertainment complex with a
Hotel, Restaurants, Amusement Park, Water Slide Park in
Cheek-to-Waga ( I heard a rumor that Senecas are going to build it)

that's a indoor amusement park & water slide park
it's suppose to be announced soon !

To be honest, neither had I until a few months ago. Then maybe 10 times since. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention? I like it, but I tend to like anything that isn't sugar coated. Tell it like it is.

I certainly wouldn't perceive it coming exclusively from the locals at least. Maybe just about everyone I've run into/heard has been way too nihilistic or something, but they wouldn't take it as something to be proud of. Though if anything, I swear alot of them enjoy things the way things are (when I say "things" I mean to imply the bad things), heck, just read some election results for that.

On a different matter, I don't want to get into SSC-esque debates about Boeing, Microsoft, Intel, Berkshire Hathaway, and the global HQ of Joe's Diner all moving into a 300 story tower (with a footprint the size of Delaware Park, no less) to be completed by Donald Trump in Buffalo tomorrow - but did anybody notice this snippet from the News today?

:hmmm:

Maziarz = Moron

Maybe there is such a prospect, but it sounds like something he's pulling out of his ass in order to get this power allocation thing changed.

Buffalo has its fair share (a lot) of problems, but I am an optimist and look at all the good things that are happening, yet one can't forget the problems the city and area have, just don't dwell on them!

On a side note, most people keep complaining about how high the taxes are and i know a lot of it is out of the hands of local governemnt. However i havn't heard a single suggestion of how to lower them on a local level such as using models from the south and west. ie, privitizing municiple services and like sabre said downsizing an overbloated system of local government that is based on an out dated model. And yes i know what everyone is going to say that you'll never get it passed the unions and i'm sure it would take forever but i'm just throwing it out there, any thoughts?

Isn't the real problem school taxes and not so much local government? Start consolidating and take on the unions to get their compensation inline with the private sector. And start shrinking government. I just read that public sector jobs increased by 30,000 or something like that in NYS over the last several years? And the ratio of public to private sector jobs is one of the highest in that nation? Why is that happening? :koko:

Hell, I'm all for some old school Pinkerton action. Let's bust some knee-caps.

Make this bitch a right to work state! Huzzah!

Looks like it's going where the old Radisson is. That site has really turned into a mess... But I didn't realize there was enough land there to support all these proposed hotels and waterpark.

From WGRZ:

Plan In Place For New Development Across From The Airport

When people from out of town fly into the Buffalo Niagara International Airport and turn onto Genesee Street, what they see across the street is the first impression they get of Western New York: The run down buildings that were once home to the Radisson Hotel.

But now plans are in place to redevelop that area directly across from the airport.

A plan was submitted by a private developer to the Town of Cheektowaga Code Enforcement Office that calls for the construction of two new restaurants, two hotels, one being a 125-room Courtyard By Marriot, the other a 125-room Fairfield Inn, and even a 4,750 square foot water park connected to that Fairfield Inn.

"The water park aspect of it adds an element that we don’t have in our town," said Cheektowaga Councilman Jeff Swiatek.

There’s room for 559 parking spaces, and the potential to build a third hotel on the site.

Full: http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_articl...?storyid=41279

More Benderson. :yuck:

4750 sq.ft. water park? More like a pool area. :rolleyes:

I believe that it will be similar to the indoor water park in Erie. Now I know that that may not sound great to many of you in the city, but in the Southern Tier people flock to Erie to shop and take their kids to the water park. That one little park probably supports the business of 3 or 4 hotels. It's so successful at drawing people from our area we're even thinking of building one for ourselves in Belmont/Belvidere off I-86.

Back to Buffalo--we finally got a good looking airport--it seems this project to spruce up the area around is needed--something besides "the jewel of WNY!"

Owner of ex-Lord Chumley's sells Delaware Ave. row houses
Former restaurant site included in sale

A string of historic row houses on Buffalo's Delaware Avenue, including the site of the former Lord Chumley's restaurant, have been sold for nearly $850,000.

Stillwater Holdings, LLC, has purchased the landmark restaurant, located at 481-483 Delaware Ave., plus the three adjoining row houses. Documents related to the $848,600 sale were filed with the Erie County Clerk's Office. Additional information on the new owner or what the future holds for the once-popular dining spot was not available.

Full: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...20/1073352.asp

They've started work on the Burchfield Penny site today. Fencing was removed, trees are down and whole site is dug up...

Termini adding to downtown apartment portfolio

Business First of Buffalo

Developer Rocco Termini is moving ahead with plans to increase his downtown Buffalo apartment portfolio by 55 percent and simultaneously find a new home for a fast-growing firm.

Termini, through his Signature Development company, has secured private-sector funding for the conversion of the historic Webb Building on Pearl Street into market-rate upscale apartments. The 130-year-old Webb Building is expected to be home to 32 new apartments and a 14,000-square-foot day care center.

The $10 million project has mostly private funding, though Termini is negotiating a payment-in-lieu-of-taxes incremental financing package through the Erie County Industrial Development Agency. The pilot would be worth about $800,000 in low-interest financing.

Termini said he hopes to begin construction on the apartments by mid-October with the first units ready by September. Termini has the building under contract from fellow developer Carl Paladino. The deal is expected to close just before construction begins.

The Webb Building, once the home of an industrial belt manufacturer, has been vacant for more than 20 years. The six-story building has 60,000 square feet.

Carmina & Wood Architecture has been retained to handle the architectural work.

Termini, next month, will appear before the Community Preservation Corp. loan committee to ask for a $3 million loan to help underwrite his conversion of the circa 1894 former Graystone Hotel on Johnson Park into 33 market-rate apartments. Termini also has the building under contract from Paladino. The conversion is expected to cost $7 million.

Work is expected to start later this winter, Termini said. Carmina & Wood are the architects.

The Graystone, original known as the Berkeley Hotel, has been vacant for more than 10 years, but is considered a downtown historic landmark.

"Both buildings have so much character," Termini said.

With the new buildings, Termini's Signature Development, will have 185 apartments in its downtown portfolio. His other projects include the Ellicott Lofts, the IS Lofts and Oak Street Lofts.

more good news! yay!

if only more developers started "coming out of the woodwork"
:tup:

Soon there will be no more derelict buildings downtown. One by one they are being ticked off. Genesee Block has to get some movement soon!

Looking Good!

Do you have addresses for those buildings, I'd like to get some "before" pictures.

MR-
Webb is at 90 Pearl, a few doors up from Pearl St. Brewery.
Greystone is on S. Johnson Park between Delaware and S. Elmwood.

Thanks for the info, I'll get to those this week... Did you guys see my Buffalo pics thread? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=116289
Shots from the top of central terminal toward downtown.

Planning Board Meeting
 

So I had to be at City Hall today for a meeting with one of the city's 3 community planners and decided that I would go early and sit through the Planning Board meeting. WestCoastPerspective asked if I would check out two of the items on the agenda and get some pics, for which I obliged.

Item #1: Ellicott Development's Waterfront Village Project

Presented today was preliminary site plans for 15 townhomes as part of the Waterfront Village project that Ellicott has prefered developer status for next to Admirals Walk. The townhomes are of a similar design to the Rivermist Townhomes across Ojibwa Dr. from the Ellicott development. They are a little more pedestrian friendly than Rivermist. The Ellicott reps I talked to stated that development has to begin by the end of the year or they lose prefered developer status from BURA. They will start with 4 units, after those are sold, will buildt the next four, to make a continuous 8, when those are sold will build the last 7 all at once. The townhomes are to be between 2200 and 2700 sq. ft. and have either 2 or 3 bedrooms. Each unit will have a small patio which will overlook a small park behind the townhomes. Maintenance on the park will be paid for by the homeowners association. The preliminary plot plans were approved. The condo tower is still being tweaked but they have to present the plans for that to BURA by the end of October, but they probably won't go before the Planning Board until after the 1st of the year.

Item #2: Colvin/Starin Subdivision in North Buffalo

The second item that WC wanted me to look at was the proposed subdivision between Colvin and Starin along the old Rail ROW in North Buffalo. There are 134 proposed lots, although several prospective buyers have indicated they wanted to buy double lots, so there will not be 134 homes built. The NFTA has required that there be a 30' ROW maintained on the north side of the property to allow for the construction of a bikeway and/or future rail extension. The city department of public works is requiring there to be a 66' wide right of way for the street and adjacent sidewalks, which leaves a 79' to 89' lot depth. The typical lot will be 55' wide with the four corner lots being 70' wide. At both ends of the new street low entrance walls are proposed making this a true 'subdivision'. The developer did not have architectural renderings available for the houses, but I would suspect that they will be of a suburban style considering the lot width and depth. I am going to talk to him on Thursday about some more renderings, so I will probably enquire as to the house designs and see if I could at least encourage him to have the garages set back from the front of the houses. I think this one is going to happen considering that the Planning Board approved the preliminary design as well as the fact that I think the site is properly zoned so unless the North Buffalo people that were opposed to the Natale proposal come out in force to oppose this, I think it will go through.

Some pics from both proposals:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestip...7594301041189/

Both developments will be presented at a public hearing in front of the Planning Board on October 10th.