I think this part of the thread is confusing a market for shops and services with a market for "heritage" buildings.

To say that there are no businesses to go in these buildings or on the street once they're constructed and home to hundreds more people goes against decades of evidence in economic geography. If the existing ones are not in great shape now, new business owners will clean them up and use them if they feel they can make money once open.

If Main West simply ends up being vertical "sprawl" where cars by far remain the dominant mode and access to commercial streets is poor (like the apartment buildings east of Centennial), then fewer businesses will have a market to serve as residents end up driving elsewhere instead. Make it more pedestrian-friendly, and use the LRT or whatever transit improvements are made to full effect, and the retail landscape will change too.

This is the balance the city must get right, to support its intensification aspirations and avoid spreading itself outward to a great degree.

And yet how many of vranich's first floors remain unoccupied? How much of the core's main floors remain unoccupied? Places that currently ARE pedestrian friendly but are still vacant or boarded up. There are areas of our city that are chock full of people and yet there are no businesses to be found, only boarded up places - and yes the lrt plans did not help this along king, but it was happening long before this. Look how many places have come and gone at the building at the corner of main and james? Several renovations later and still nothing - on a bus route, with lots of people nearby.. coffee shops? Yes. Big box stores? Maybe. Chain restaurants? sure. Ma and pa shops? They die pretty quickly.

once you pass the cathedral of christ the king yes things get "richer" because of the university, granted, but this isn't just about heritage buildings, but a lack of a feeling of safety downtown, where even existing businesses are packing up shop and leaving. Let's face it, it's an uphill climb to turn scummy places around and retain people in these areas. Now this might not apply to THIS area, but to say that businesses not filling up places wher scummier places were evicted goes against decades of economic geography is just.. sadly untrue for hamilton. There are places in hamilton that NOBODY wants to be in. Look at the place across from capri on john, the golden fortune restaurant - and the building beside it that almost collapsed - the golden fortune restaurant has been closed and shuttered for how long? Hell it's even missing half its letters. Some areas regardless of their intensification have just been left to ROT. Some.. to the point of collapse.

This has more to do with how rich the areas are and what kind of places we have let them rot into - the core has rotted into scooterville and cheap loan places and homelessness - so people are less likely to invest there - yes there are businesses that might want to invest - but there are only CERTAIN places in hamilton they will invest in. I just.. don't agree that every single building built is going to instantaneously going to have a commercial tenant on the first floor - some stay vacant for DECADES.

Lots of empty field like areas in this region.. and this beauty just down the street from the proposed location:

https://i.imgur.com/XCvcpJ8.jpeg

Sorry, don't mind me, I think I'm just discouraged and bitter at all the events that have happened in this city recently..

Yeah, your posts are a bit of a mishmash.

Vranich does not seem to care to fill the commercial spaces in his buildings, but the city allows it. He's now in top gear making his legacy off real-estate and strippers, so maybe he just wants to accomplish more and more?

People + money to spend + need or want = a market. But it will take time. It took a while for James to re-fill after it was converted to 2-way traffic flow, making it a friendlier street to walk along, and that was a street with a fairly complete urban form on both sides (and I know there are people who still don't believe that connection; it's simplistic and there were other factors at work, but I think it was the key catalyst). Parts of Barton will too, eventually, but there's more to happen in those neighbourhoods. Cannon will be interesting to watch as it fills out, but it's got big challenges. I think Main West is at a good launch point, especially with one of the largest employers and sources of people in the whole city.


Totally unrelated, but this website is frustrating the heck out of me. I'm glad the security issues seem to be managed now, but EVERY time I log in to make a post, I have to log in again to save it. Then it seems like I'm kept "live" for a longer time. Also, edits don't always seem to get saved properly. E.g., in my above post, I see "To say that there are hundreds of businesses to go in these buildings or on the street once they're built and home to more people goes against decades of evidence in economic geography" but what I actually typed was something like To say that there are no businesses to go in these buildings or on the street once they're built and home to more people goes against decades of evidence in economic geography... And now the post reads as intended. Must have been a lag for it to "take"

Hmm, weird, it seems to work okay for me, and yes I am glad that things are better here now - we've had our spats a few of us and yes my posts tend to me uttering a thought and then progressively adding to it re-editing it as I think of more and more - must be a symptom of being a creative - my mind is changing a lot haha..

Vranich doesn't seem to care period - he's just a step up from blanchard, and that ain't saying much - but at least when he buys a plot he gets it DONE, which is the only reason he's a step above.

Personally I feel what really saved james street was the lister block - when it went from the symbol of hamiltons decline (it was even used in silent hill in a post apocalyptic city) to the symbol of its renewal it spawned development on both james street and king wiliam - tying into my statement that when people no longer feel like an area is ROTTING, they are more willing to put an investment into it - but someone has to take that FIRST step.

It's tough, and look at how many different hands passed through that main restaurant on the first floor - I think the city moving into this building really helped for stability though - not everyone has that luxury of stability and so many attempts at renewal fail. So yeah I think even you and I disagree that making it 2 way was the catalyst - I think the lister block was the real satalyst - you can literally see how it moved to the william thomas building next, then the buildings south of it that L shape onto king, and then the lister annex - everything spread FROM the lister block.

it's like having a sink hole and pouring concrete into it to fill it - it's gonna take a while before things become stable and the sinkhole might get bigger as a result before it gets better. I am so passionate and slightly pessimistic and bitter because I care so much about this city and its history and I hate seeing it erased. I get that it's progress but still, I just wanna see effort and innovation in what replaces it.

But I digress - at least stuff is getting built, vs the decades of stagnation and rot we had.. so that's something.. I guess.

1) well these aren't Vranich builds so you can expect them to actually want to rent out commerical ground floor units

2) there's currently a 12 floor building proposed on that empty lot (eg. Improving the area even if the architecture isn't the best)

Well that's something at least - here's to hoping both of them get built.

Fingers crossed! It is quite fugly though...

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attach...py-jpg.591313/

eh.. still looks better than the main one imo.. but yeah.. that's a lot of spandrel glass..

Palm tree, and the building to the right looks like 100 North Tampa:koko:

HA my brain fog made this whole conversation what it was I think - I actually meant Main W, not King :koko: my apologies lol

Eh don't feel so bad.. I used to get the 2 confused a ton as a kid simply because one runs diagonal and is above king at one point and below it in others..