Good points! It would be cool but it looks doubtful

I think there is almost zero chance they would play anywhere but Toronto. A team like that would need a ton of Toronto hype and it could not be generated by playing out of Hamilton.

I'm pretty sure Larry Tannenbaum has already said the team will play where the Marlies play, and also that he is leading the bid outside of MLSE (which he will likely not be part of by the time this team is awarded, assuming it will be).

Conspiracy theory of the day:
What if OVG is delaying renos to keep Hamilton out of the mess that surrounds the Coyotes and potential NHL expansion? If true, that could be because they [wisely] want to stay out of it, or because the Powers that Be have demanded it be so.

That's a conspiracy alright.

If the Coyotes relocate, they're going to Utah. It's pretty much a done deal at this point.
Hamilton's never getting an NHL team. Spare yourself the heartache.

Yup. the renovations are dropping the arena's capacity pretty significantly too. The arena as it stands today is basically the bare minimum to host an NHL team, and even then not really - the renos will drop it out of contention basically entirely.

If the GTA ever gets a second NHL team, it would need a new arena, and I suspect it would be closer to the central GTA. Mississauga or something.

I'm under no illusions, and gave up that hope long ago. As I wrote a few days ago, the NHL is "NEVER coming here on a permanent basis, so we all need to get over that"

Nothing associated with the Phoenix franchise ever seems done. So the 'theory' is just about silencing any speculation related to this town before it happens... if there is no readily available arena, there is no speculation no matter how suitable the final design may be for the league.

Bettman will be after a final windfall for the owners before he leaves his post (and it's GOT to be nearing that time; the man has been commish more than 30 years now, and is in his 70s). A move or expansion to his least favourite market would go against that.

I'm not sure what the NHL minimum capacity is, but FOC as it stands (at 17,383) is bigger than seven NHL arenas:

Arizona (5,000)
Winnipeg (15,321)
New Jersey (16,514)
Seattle (17,151)
Nashville (17,159)
Anaheim (17,174)
New York Islanders (17,255).

I've seen two numbers for the new T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas (17,368 & 17,500), I'm not sure which one is accurate, but FOC is in the ballpark. What will the new FOC capacity be?

I don't think these renos to FOC are doing anything to add the needed suites and lounges that an NHL team would require that the planned uses don't really need.

I don't think that the renovations are dropping the arena's capacity. That said, they will not involve enough luxury boxes (I think it will be something like 19) to meet NHL-level numbers.

I swear I saw somewhere it was dropping from ~17,000 to ~14,000 with the renovations. Maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe that was some alternate proposal. The current renovation is keeping capacity more or less where it is.

Last I saw they were punching some new vomitories to change which concourse the stands are accessed from (but infilling the old ones, probably a wash), and building over the top few rows of the lower bowl to add suites/loges so probably a slight net loss.

There will be two concourse levels post-reno. Is that correct? And where did you see this?

The company I work for is bidding on some of the work.

Level 1 is part concourse, part club area, part locker rooms etc.

Level 2 is concourse, with access to lower bowl at mid height.

Level 3 is concourse, as it is now, but with suites around the long sides of the bowl that block the current top-of-bowl access to the lower bowl.

Thanks for the info! Does Level 2 exist today? Or would that somehow be an altogether new piece of construction?

Thanks!


That lone concourse gets pretty jammed at times, even with just a nearly full house in the lower bowl. So going to 3 levels, let alone 2, will be a major improvement.

I read that there were large areas of unfinished and unused space. I imagine part of that is the "trade centre" portion that is exposed when the lower rows of movable seating are pulled back? I recall when we still had an auto show it was used for displays, and also beer gardens for special events, but I remember it being mainly on the north side of the arena.

I believe that at one time there was also a connection from Jackson Square that led into the south portion below the lower bowl, but I think that must have run behind the rooms for teams and coaches, etc.

The roof was apparently in rough shape and due for replacement -- anyone know if they plan to do anything with the existing press box?

It already exists. There is a street level concourse that extends almost around the entire arena. It has been used for storage almost since inception. It is located between the underground level 1(locker rooms, trade floor) and level 3(main concourse historically used for upper and lower bowls).

Ive seen some photos of the level 2. Ill try to find them.

Edit. From a spec article

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...s-source=login

Meanwhile, there are parts of the arena that have been hidden from public view almost since the day it opened, including a street-level concourse that wraps around most of the building and is used primarily as storage. The plan is for it all to be back in play.

“Thousands of square feet of unused space just waiting to be activated,” he says. “Most people have never been there.”

Interesting. I had my levels confused.

EDIT: It looks like Slide 11 in this presentation has diagrams of the ice-level (below ground, Level 1) concourse and the street-level (Level 2) concourse...
https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=378717

I was also curious about the press box. It seems that you have to walk across a bunch of catwalks to get to it now.

How much can we get for $280 million?

Great find. You can also see the connection points to jackson square.

Here is another link with floor plans of the three levels:
https://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/200/30...rks/copps2.htm

The location of the interior scenes in this trailer seems familiar... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJiPAJKjUVg

Yeah, and they're trying to pass off the Skydome as the exterior of this arena.

With Copps as the interior, what shitshow. either way, another crap shoot movie that must have made them a few bucks while they seem to delay the renovation.

Tanaka Arena. :cool:

This may seem funny, but I still expect to see Copps/FOC with the multi-coloured seats rather than the uniform blue ones. Maybe that's because I went to many more events before the change compared to after (including the first concert... The Thompson Twins with OMD opening)

Me too, however I've never been inside the arena since they replaced the seats. In fact, the last time I've stepped foot in the arena was for a Hamilton Canucks (Vancouver's AHL farm team) game back in 1992.

It hasn't really changed... it has just become older and more drab. It does have a very tired feel to it.

Some notes:
- They did replace the lower bowl with blue seating probably close to twenty years ago (possibly more than twenty years ago). I find the seating comfortable enough.
- They had an escalator that was embarrassingly broken and out of operation for years
- The current scoreboard is probably the third one in the arena's history and is so outdated that there is probably no arena with over 4000 seats in all of Ontario that does not have much crisper video
- The concessions currently have less variety than in the past --- most of them seem to be "Franks & Suds", which does not have much more for sale than franks and suds.
- The washrooms are clean enough, but are some of the only widely visited washrooms that I can think of that do not have touchless sensors to turn on the faucets
- When Def Leppard paid a visit four or five years ago, the leader singer stated in a YouTube that the arena smelled like "10,000 a**es". Apparently it was due to some garbage by the loading by on a hot day or something like that (I don't exactly remember)

Saw this on Joey Coleman's Twitter feed:

OVG to break ground on FirstOntario Centre reno

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...oup-renovation

Reopen by fall of next year? lol doubt that

They're planning to reopen but not be done renovations is my understanding. 12 months closed then another 6 of finishing work while the arena is back open. I suspect finishing up exterior and street facing elements in the last 6ish months.

As long as the interior structural changes are complete and "safe" I'd think OVG will want to start hosting revenue-generating events.

While I hope to see some impressive exterior work, I can accept if it's just lipstick so long as the guts of the arena are vastly improved. More can be done later, if need be.

WE FINALLY HAVE SHOVELS IN THE GROUND!
I never thought I’d see the day!

I was hoping we would have seen some new renderings though.

https://www.chch.com/major-renovatio...ntario-centre/

The official groundbreaking ceremony is scheduled to kick off renovations at the downtown stadium at 10 a.m. on Thursday.
Over the next 14 months, work will be done to strip the entire facility down to its core and carry out a $280 million renovation project that is expected to completely transform the arena.

Once complete, the venue will be able to host 18,000 people at a time and be decked out in premium features, including enhanced acoustics, improved sightlines, upgraded concourses, and new artist lounges.

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...0f?bg=FFF&cb=1

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...db?bg=FFF&cb=1

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...80?bg=FFF&cb=1

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...4d?bg=FFF&cb=1

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...c5?bg=FFF&cb=1

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...65?bg=FFF&cb=1

https://hightailspaces-s3.imgix.net/...b8?bg=FFF&cb=1

The planned exterior looks better than it does today, but it's not much more than just slapping a fresh coat of paint in 2 colors. It'll still have that outdated 80's look to it.
Underwhelming.

Was never going to be about the exterior, though the spec article said there would be a new restaurant open on non event days. This was always about the concourses and arena bowl.

I am personally more than fine with it being primarily about the interior. The exterior does look dated, but I kind of like it, and it will be nice to see it cleaned up and at least have some fresh paint and working signage in front of the arena.

The restaurant is going to have a celebrity chef attached to it, and it might be Matty Matheson from The Bear. The announcement is apparently coming at some point in the next couple of months.

All of this said, I am confused about the concourse situation. My understanding is that there are three levels to the arena:
- The below-ground ice-level / event-level
- The street-level
- The current above-street-level concourse, which has up to this point been used to access the entire arena bowl (upper and lower).

Let's take the below-ground level out of the equation for a moment (though it looks like there will be some kind of lounges on that level).

I had understood that the current concourse might be re-done to access only the upper bowl, and one of the renders seems to suggest that (the one with people hanging out outside of sections 220-221). However, one of the other concourse images shows people going up the stairs/escalators to enter what also looks like the current concourse and it seems to have access to both the lower and upper bowls (outside of sections 108,109,211,212) ---[EDIT: Maybe that image only shows access to the upper bowl, while still having signage showing sections 108 and 109, but not access to them?]. The left part of the in-bowl concert image also seems to show the current concourse being used for both the lower and upper bowls. All of the pictures seem to be of the current concourse.

To me, one of the most exciting aspects of this whole thing is the possibility of two full (hopefully wrap-around) concourses coming into play and making things much more roomy during big events, but I can't tell if that will be the case or not. Does anyone understand this and can explain?

Re: Hockey:

https://www.thespec.com/opinion/colu...aaf6c9d15.html

Perhaps AHL is a real possibility? Who knows. Looks like it'll be AHL or an OHL team (likely not the bulldogs) moving from another market.

That quote does confirm my suspicions that Leiweke is courting MLSE to pull the Marlies down the QEW.

Yeah, I get that the interior was the main reason for the renovation - it's just that an aesthetically pleasing exterior goes a long way in improving the look of the downtown core.

With the white/light grey exterior, OVG could install some cheap, really cool LED lighting to spruce up the look.

Having downtown be busy regularly and encouraging redevelopment of the plaza, auto body shop along Bay and some of the parking lots will do a heck of a lot more than the exterior of FOC. Not that I don't want to see it updated, but the economic impacts of downtown being busy 2-4 days per week would be a lot more.

The arena can host 18,000 people. When that venue is full it nearly doubles the population of downtown.

The exterior is going to be reclad so that it looks fresh and how the arena relates to the street updated including street level restaurants with patios, from my understanding. It'll be a massive upgrade.

I'm not overly fussed about how the upper levels will be clad.

Hi jonny24... appreciate your past clarifications! I am wondering if you would be able to help clarify a few things a bit further. Will Level 3 be used for access to both the upper and lower parts of the bowl at the end zones of the bowl? And Level 2 will be used for lower bowl access only at the long sides of the bowl? Will the Level 2 concourse wrap all the way around the arena or will it be something like a horseshoe shape?

Overall, I am pretty happy with this whole deal.

Notes:
1. It is actually happening AND it is a legit really big spend AND it is privately funded AND it involves the biggest names in the arena and concert businesses.
2. It looks like there will be a ton more food and drink options and a ton more concourse space and it will just feel more modern and big-league.
3. There will be a bit of an exterior clean-up, but nothing substantial. I am cool with that.
4. They have not announced a new video board. OVG did not put one into Baltimore's arena either, citing the focus on the concert business. It will be a shame if the current board does not get upgraded. It is crap. Let's see.
5. I am sure that they will be able to get an AHL team or an OHL team in there and there will probably be NHL and/or NBA pre-season games taking place, along with wrestling or other sports. I am not excited by the OHL or AHL and it is too bad that the NHL remains a pipe dream. And as big as these renos are, it will probably still not quite be an NHL-ready arena once they are done, e.g. it will not have an NHL-sized number of suites.
6. The celebrity chef restaurant sounds pretty cool.
7. They have to do something about the troubled people near the arena. I do not know what.

On the whole, pretty darn exciting news for Hamilton and its downtown!

Early in the process there were talks of moving the Salvation Army, but I haven’t heard anything about that for a while.

The overall trend seems to be to push these services east outside of the downtown to “clean up” the downtown.

Yep. Won't be many places left to put them when the next cleanings occur... Hamilton mountain maybe? Because we know there won't be any moved to Ancaster or Waterdown.

Originally it was stated a new video board would be installed.
Renders show it will likely be the same size as the current one however.

Just please make sure it doesn’t look like the hideous new one Sasktel centre got.

That thing is an El Cheapo one million dollar job. I think they are treating it as somewhat temporary since Saskatoon is in the very early stages of planning out a new 16,000 seat arena.

This would easier if I could just post pics/plans, but I'm not actually on the project, just snooping though the files we have on it, plus they're actually somewhat confusing without all the accompanying sections etc.

Level 3: Wraps fully around

Access to upper bowl all around
Access to top of lower bowl for Club (Bay St end)
Access to top of lower bowl (Loge seats, York side)
Access to top of lower bowl (Suites, Jackson Sq South side)
Access to top of lower bowl General Admission (all 4 corners, Jackson Sq East end)

Level 2: Horseshoe shape - does not wrap the Jackson Sq East end. Just says "fit out by others" in that space, can't tell if it's supposed to be a restaurant or what.

Access to lower bowl at mid-bowl height (i.e. below the clubs/loges/suites) at York, Bay, and JS South sides.
No access to lower bowl at mid height on the JS East end. The lowest 10 rows at this end retract to make room for a concert stage, so you can only access this part of the bowl from the top.

Level 1: NW corner (York/Bay) is concourse. Access to ice/floor.
Along Bay is "Event Level Club" and "Floor Suites". This area has access to the lower bowl from the bottom, as well as to the floor.

The bottom 3 rows around the whole rest of the bowl also retract, I guess for larger floor space, and the front rows in this mode will be elevated. Looks like in retracted mode, the floor-level access to the bowl goes away.