Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa (Post 9397514)

And if Birmingham hadn't been such a corrupt and racist place, it would have 6 million people now, not Atlanta: https://www.al.com/opinion/2019/07/b...wo-cities.html

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9399350)

You can definitely live in Birmingham proper and be in a nice neighborhood. Of course the nice areas are segregated, conservative-leaning (even intown locations) and virtually all white.

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg (Post 9399366)

Much of Atlanta's rise came from its proximity to Florida and its favorable position on I-75, which routes all Florida-bound traffic from St. Louis to Chicago to Detroit (the Great Lakes region has a similar population to California) travels through it. Atlanta was the edge of civilization back in 1950, when Florida only had 2 million residents. Now Florida has 20 million residents, giving Atlanta a huge regional market that didn't exist historically.

Meanwhile, I-65 connects Birmingham with Mobile, and there is no direct interstate highway that connects Birmingham (via Montgomery) with Florida. The fastest path from Birmingham to Orlando is...through Atlanta.

Originally Posted by KB0679 (Post 9399322)

While Georgia Tech is in Midtown, Georgia State is most definitely located in downtown and has arguably been the most active real estate developer within downtown over the past decade due to its rapid growth.

As far as attractions in downtown Atlanta, you're forgetting the entire area around Centennial Olympic Park which includes the aquarium, World of Coke, civil/human rights museum, and the College Football HOF. Sweet Auburn is easily accessible from downtown via the streetcar.



This is assuming that Birmingham's gain would have been Atlanta's loss and there's no good reason to believe this would've been the case. Also it wasn't just that Atlanta wasn't nearly as violently racist that accounts for its rapid growth post-civil rights, it's because, while still very much a Southern city, its Black institutions, civil rights vanguard, business/professional class, and political class gave it the most progressive of reputations among Southern cities. This is why Atlanta became the biggest beneficiary of the "Reverse Migration" among Black Americans at the outset in 1970 and hasn't relinquished that position in 50 years.

Aside from racial issues, Birmingham still had two big things working against it: 1) local steel industrialists who supported Jim Crow to discourage outside economic investment and thus competition as a means of keeping wages low and Northern-based corporate owners who were absent and largely unconcerned with local matters; and 2) geography as Georgia's location on the Atlantic coast and in the EST zone was more advantageous for it as an airport and business hub with connections to East Coast business interests. Also, even without all the racial strife and violence in Birmingham, Alabama would still have a bad reputation for civil rights with Selma, Montgomery, George Wallace's rhetoric and antics, etc which would wind up still negatively impacting Birmingham to some extent.

Originally Posted by TimCity2000 (Post 9399735)

the bolded part is not true. birmingham is a very blue city, even in the city's predominantly white neighborhoods. that changes rapidly, of course, once you move into the suburbs.

Originally Posted by IluvATX (Post 9399552)

What if you include West Campus into Austin’s downtown? I know it’s not in the CBD.

Originally Posted by L41A (Post 9399752)

NO!

Atlanta promoted itself as a welcoming place to do business which was a catalyst for its growth in the 1950-60s which separated it from places like Birmingham. Florida marketed itself as a state a little later as a place for retirement, vacation, tourism, weather which catapulted its growth.

I don’t believe in the 1950s when Atlanta Mayor Hartsfield led the city to invest in air travel/airport which built upon Atlanta's railroad hub and transportation history that he had Florida in mind. Nor do I think he or anyone thought Interstate Highway System (I-75) would play such a prominent role in travel. The openness in the 1960s of Atlanta’s city leadership, business community, and educational institutions to engage with young, intelligent civil rights leadership of the day along with the aforementioned 1950s civic leadership/forethought toward airport infrastructure was key to Atlanta’s growth to another level.

The synergy for growth between Atlanta and Florida is minimal (if any). Atlanta's connection is far greater to the Carolinas - and even to Tennessee, Alabama, other Mid-Atlantic, SE and Midwestern states than it is to Florida. The growth is especially independent to the Central/Southern parts of Florida which are the areas of Florida that have really grown.

Even today, the growth of Atlanta and Florida is separated by a large swath of South Georgia and North Florida that physically, culturally, topographically separates the two.
Georgia and Florida is my ancestral heritage. If I were drop some of my deep respect for nuances (Everything is Every Thing) Georgia and Florida could be divided into 3 states with North Georgia being one state, South Florida being another and the third being South Georgia/North Florida - minus the panhandle which is similarly (timezone, etc) to Alabama.

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 9399468)

Downtown Austin

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1ddb7ca4_z.jpg

--------------------------------- 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ 1990 ------ Growth ------ Area ------ Density

Downtown --------------------- 11,021 ------ 6,851 ------ 3,855 ------ 3,882 ------ 60.9% --- 77.7% ---- -0.7% ------- 4.1 km² ---- 2,719.2 inh./km²

Austin MSA ---------------- 2,283,371 -- 1,716,309 -- 1,249,763 ---- 846,227 ------ 33.0% --- 37.3% ---- 47.7% -- 10,928 km²


Downtown Austin, and Austin for that matter, are discussed a lot here in SSP. Not much to say other than growing very fast. Total population was not as big as I thought. Slightly more populated than Memphis', for example.

The MSA, as the other Texan metro areas, with no signs of slowing down despite already being big. Very impressive.

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer (Post 9400145)

I understand why you did not include tract 12, as the majority of the area is not downtown.

However, a not inconsequential portion of our downtown does reside in tract 12. The tallest building in Austin, and many other residential buildings as well are all located in tract 12, but are not included in your total.

All of the area between Shoal Creek and Lamar Blvd. Is definitely downtown, and it's unfortunate the way the tracts are drawn because there are thousands of people excluded which do indeed reside downtown.

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 9400250)

As I organized data for over 60 downtowns, I saw this kind of thing a lot. While in many places census tracts match perfectly the official/most common Downtown definition, in others there are some blocks left out or some big non-Downtown areas included.

About the highest building, isn't it this one on the the pic? If it's, it's included on the 4 tracts making Downtown Austin here.

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer (Post 9400288)

Nope, although the tallest building in that pic (Austonian) was Austin's tallest until a few years ago.

The current tallest is the Independent, which is several blocks to the west. There's a whole cluster of towers just out of frame in that photo, many of which are in tract 12.

Here's a photo showing the area.
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=2942

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 9399468)

Downtown Austin

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1ddb7ca4_z.jpg

--------------------------------- 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ 1990 ------ Growth ------ Area ------ Density

Downtown --------------------- 11,021 ------ 6,851 ------ 3,855 ------ 3,882 ------ 60.9% --- 77.7% ---- -0.7% ------- 4.1 km² ---- 2,719.2 inh./km²

Austin MSA ---------------- 2,283,371 -- 1,716,309 -- 1,249,763 ---- 846,227 ------ 33.0% --- 37.3% ---- 47.7% -- 10,928 km²


Downtown Austin, and Austin for that matter, are discussed a lot here in SSP. Not much to say other than growing very fast. Total population was not as big as I thought. Slightly more populated than Memphis', for example.

The MSA, as the other Texan metro areas, with no signs of slowing down despite already being big. Very impressive.

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 9381146)

Downtown Washington

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1f18f865_z.jpg


-------------------------------- 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ 1990 ------ Growth ------ Density

Downtown --------------------- 30,279 ----- 27,025 ----- 18,704 ----- 17,457 ---- 12.0% ---- 44.5% ---- 7.1% ------ 11.0 km² --- 2,743.7 inh./km²

Georgetown -------------------- 13,603 ----- 14,231 ----- 12,991 ----- 12,181 ---- -4.4% ----- 9.5% ---- 6.6% ------- 3.2 km² --- 4,268.3 inh./km²

Washington DC --------------- 689,545 ---- 601,723 ---- 572,059 ---- 606,900 ---- 14.6% ----- 5.2% --- -5.7% ----- 158.3 km² --- 4,355.9 inh./km²

Arlington-Alexandria-F.C. ---- 412,768 ---- 359,925 ---- 328,113 ---- 291,697 ---- 14.7% ----- 9.7% --- 12.5% ----- 111.3 km² --- 3,708.3 inh./km²

Washington Metro Area ----- 6,105,431 -- 5,388,326 -- 4,635,194 -- 3,997,373 ---- 13.3% ---- 16.2% --- 16.0% -- 12,403 km²


Washington Downtown is very different from everything. Firstly, the Mall and Potomac Park takes half of it (1 census tract). The other 10 census tracts comprise Foggy Bottom and everything between the Massachusetts Avenue and the Mall. As this region is full of big government offices, embassies, hotels, it's hard to make any assumption about its residential population trends.

As bonus, I brought Georgetown, formed by 4 census tracts.

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 9400398)

Interesting Austin gets attention but its numbers are sort of Meh. Denver seems to be way ahead with a downtown half the size and 3 times as dense.

Denver Downtown ---------------------- 15,198 ------- 7,998 ------ 4,181 ------ 2,795 ---- 90.0% ---- 91.3% --- 49.6% ------- 2.3 km² --- 6,736.7 inh./km²