I'd go even lower, I'll bet even money it will be .1 or lower. Less than one out of every 1,000 customers will arrive by Burlington Transit or GO Train. There might be some cyclists there on weekends, but next to zero Monday to Friday.

MEC obviously expects their customers to drive, afterall I think it is obvious that they located where they did so they could easily serve the entire Hamilton/Burlington/Oakville market. It's a quick drive on the 403 from Ancaster or Oakville.

Giant Tiger Grand Opening at Gulliver Square will be Nov 15th.

I will second markbarbera assertion that this is essentially driven by sour grapes. One need not look further than a poster claiming he or she will visit the location in Toronto but not the one in Burlington--taking his/her discretionary income even further outside our region--as opposed to spending it locally where it might support--at the very least--some local jobs. If one were truly so outraged by the choice of this location over a location in Hamilton, I would expect an outright boycott would be in order--as opposed to one specific to a single location.

My guess is that MEC built this location after doing it's due dilligence--and I expect the store to be successful--in part because of it's accessibility. It would be interesting to see what percentage of customers drive to MEC's other locations--it is likely higher than average when compared to neighboring retailers--no matter how urban the setting may be. That's what destination retailers are all about.

The simple answer to all of this? They're in Burlington because of location, location, location.

No. It's driven by a desire to vote with our wallets and encourage MEC to make more sustainable choices in the future. Why does it bother you that some members are willing to go to a little extra effort to send a message?

This statement is based on romanticism rather than reality. The drive from the Gardiner to MEC Toronto is via Spadina. The route is made up mostly of an exit ramp leading to the bridge spanning the CN tracks. The final 400m of the journey sees you enter one neighbourhood - the westernmost edge of the entertainment district in TO.

Brant Street in Burlington has bike lanes. No problem accessing it. As a comparison, there are no bike lanes on Toronto's King Street West where their MEC is located.

As much as reality may contradict your perception of Burlington, this site is served by a bus every 15 minutes or better, any day of the week. The bus trip from the downtown Burlington terminal takes less than 20 minutes to get to the MEC shop. From Burlington GO it is a 5 minute trip. In comparison, a streetcar trip from Toronto's King subway station to MEC Toronto takes 15 minutes during non-peak periods, and well over 20 minutes during rush hour. And there's never anywhere to put your bike on the streetcar.

MEC has located where it is serviced by multiple modes of transit. It is not a site where a 'few' buses pass by. Three routes serve the site. There is a dedicated bike lane running along Brant Street. A train station is a ten minute walk away. And yes, it is easily accessible by a highway route.

So what's your point? My point is the MEC location is designed to be more sustainable than the Toronto location, and its certification proves it.

I beg to differ.

Since when is a retail location in a suburban setting such a horrible thing? Never mind the fact that describing Brant and Plains Road as part of suburban Burlington is factually incorrect, there simply is nothing in MEC's charter that prohibits it from operating in a suburban setting.

Good for you. To demonstrate your disdain for all things related to Burlington, you will bypass this location and make a journey that will triple your trip's carbon footprint simply out of spite. Obviously sustainability is not really a high priority for you.

No sour grapes here. I won't shop at the new store and I hope it fails. This is because I live in central Hamilton and do my shopping here. I don't drive to malls and box stores not because I can't afford to, but because it's a waste of time and gas. I'd rather take the GO to Toronto and do some record shopping at the same time.

Jon Dalton--with all due respect, if one takes you at your word you shouldn't be going anywhere to shop other than downtown. Last time I checked you could still buy records downtown.

As for "hoping it fails" - we are in a challenged economy--I for one don't intend on doing any grave dancing--people's livelihoods are at stake--and assuming a failed business in Burlington doesn't impact the greater regional economy shows a pretty barren understanding of economics.

The Burlington MEC has practically no chance of failing. It has a solid market base within Burlington's demographics. If it didn't it wouldn't have been built there. IMO any MEC member that wishes failure upon any of their locations deserves to have his/her membership revoked.

this is pretty funny.
Now we're actually supposed to respond to a post that suggests Brant St in Burlington is just as urban, no more car-dependant, not chosen due to highway location, MORE convenient for cyclists and just as well served by transit as the MEC Toronto store??
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Mark, you're a great poster, but seem to be hammered on the koolaid on this one.

Fastcars - spare us the drama re: grave-dancing etc.....geez.

I'm just about the least dramatic person you could ever meet...or encounter in an internet Forum. There is no drama here--wishing for a business to fail is wishing for people to be unemployed--plain and simple.

I don't get it. What makes Hiker's Haven so much more worthy of business than the Burlington MEC? If anything, it's even less accessible by public transit.

RTH seems to be forgetting that Burlington and Hamilton are neighbours and have pretty close ties. Goodness, the 700K population figure for Hamilton that I have seen posted on this board a few times includes the population of Burlington.

i'm starting to think that some of you work for burlington EcDev.
What do you care about where we shop??
I happen to make an annual day in TO, including MEC and I'll continue to do so. Now you're telling us that we can only support jobs in cities/regions that you approve of??
While we're on the topic, I'm wondering if I have your permission to shop at the MEC in Ottawa next time I visit?? Is it on your special list, or will I get chastised for visiting it?

Lets get real people, anybody who shops at the MEC in Burlington is going to arrive by car.

That is true - I only shop downtown with the rare exception. This is a matter of preference and possibly also because I'm lazy when it comes to shopping. As for records, even after the unfortunate passing of Sonic Unyon's retail operation, I buy 90% of them downtown from Cheapies and the 3 times yearly record shows.

As to hoping it fails, yes that was a little harsh and it probably springs from indignation that judging from their portfolio, a project like the federal building would have gone forward in any other city. Winnipeg for example, is similar - reuse of an abandoned building in an urban area. If it takes one poorly placed MEC location flopping to convince them to return to their former strategy of investing in urban areas, the net effect will be good. I would also maintain that the overall effect of suburban retail expansion on Hamilton's economy, especially outside of our city limits, is a net loss.

You're right and I'm sure their decision was based on substantial market research. It will do much better than it would in Hamilton. However it is still bad news for Hamilton's suffering downtown retail situation and for those (granted, the minority) downtown residents who prefer to shop locally. If I had a MEC membership, I'd give it up.

the federal building site had no chance of failure either. it's a destination store that will draw crowds in any urban/suburban setting.
It's just a shame to see them sell out ala Walmart and start using foreign labour and choosing a car-dependent location for a new store.

I am forever amused at "greener pasture" comparisons with other cities which are progressive and adaptively reuse their heritage buildings.

The City of Winnipeg forged headlong when it came to demolishing the T. Eaton Co. store on Portage Avenue--and it was a building with significant heritage value as well as being symbolically important from a Canadian historical perspective. There is, however, a single Tyndall Limestone display window built in to the concourse of the MTS Centre...if that's what you mean by adaptive reuse.

Time will tell if the MEC location in Burlington is "poorly" placed. As I stated above, I suspect they've done their due dillignence and chose an optimal location for their target demographic (as IKEA did several years ago). As I stated previously, as a "destination" retailer, the vast majority of MEC's clientele drive substantial distances to reach their stores--it's the hard truth...same goes for Burlington as does for Toronto.

I for one don't work for Burlington EcDev. I do recognize the fantastic job that particular department has done over the past 15 or 20 years in attracting businesses to their city. Moreover, I recognize that as part of the Hamilton CMA, what is good for Burlington, is ultimately good for Hamilton.

Winnipeg downtown has WAY more historic, large buildings that have been kept and revitalized than Hamilton. They kill us in the adaptive reuse category. The demo of Eatons doesn't change that.