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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread II (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256500)

zahav Jun 8, 2025 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 10436770)
According to Aeroroute, AC reduce YYZ-ICN from daily to 5x weekly in W25.

Also, India routes were reverted to W23 setup for W25:

YYZ-BOM suspended
YYZ-LHR-BOM reinstated, daily 788
YYC-LHR-DEL shortened to YYC-LHR

This change is likely where about half of the S America capacity increase coming from. But where does the 4x weekly 77L moving to? Perhaps they can use it to fly YVR-DEL non-stop :D

And it seems like the change is already loaded onto the cargo schedule, even though it just updated a few hours ago. Maybe I should just parse the cargo schedule instead of taking hours to fetch the passenger schedule, which is now always updates up to a week late...

Not sure when this happened, but I just noticed Air India's YVR-DEL daily flight stops in Calcutta (CCU Airport), maybe I'm late to the party and this has been the case for a while, but I just noticed. Of course the YVR-CCU sector is not available for purchase, it's just a tech stop evidently, no aircraft change. The DEL-YVR return flight is still non-stop. I wonder what this is for, I thought AI wasn't subject to Russian airspace closures?

thenoflyzone Jun 8, 2025 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 10438308)
Not sure when this happened, but I just noticed Air India's YVR-DEL daily flight stops in Calcutta (CCU Airport), maybe I'm late to the party and this has been the case for a while, but I just noticed. Of course the YVR-CCU sector is not available for purchase, it's just a tech stop evidently, no aircraft change. The DEL-YVR return flight is still non-stop. I wonder what this is for, I thought AI wasn't subject to Russian airspace closures?

AI used to have access to Pakistani airspace. They don't anymore.

YVR-DEL used to route eastbound. Due to the Pakistani airspace constraints, they now route it westbound out of YVR. Westbound=headwinds. That's why the stop in CCU is needed.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...ai186#3ab1b7c6

DEL-YVR can be done non stop because they now route it eastbound as well, meaning tailwinds most of the way. So even though distance wise, it's longer than over Pakistan and Russia, time wise, it's quicker.

Dominion301 Jun 9, 2025 7:01 PM

In addition to their three existing scheduled route authorities for Mexico, Cuba and the Bahamas, PD have just received approval to serve the following markets:

The UK (presumably for the likes of BDA and GCM): https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-102;

Jamaica: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-100; and

Costa Rica: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-101.

I'd love to see YOW-BDA & YOW-LIR get added. The former has never been served while pre-pandemic WG served the latter.

thenoflyzone Jun 9, 2025 7:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 10438774)
In addition to their three existing scheduled route authorities for Mexico, Cuba and the Bahamas, PD have just received approval to serve the following markets:

The UK (presumably for the likes of BDA and GCM): https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-102;

Jamaica: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-100; and

Costa Rica: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-101.

I'd love to see YOW-BDA & YOW-LIR get added. The former has never been served while pre-pandemic WG served the latter.

BDA makes sense. Not a long flight. Costa Rica is a whole other beast.

YOW-LIR is a 2,140nm+ route. PD's E295s are limited to 2,600nm range. A bit tight for that route to work.

And these Embraer ranges come with only a 100nm alternate (~12-15 minute flight at cruise speed). If your alternate is further than that, the range of the aircraft goes down.

When flying into Central America or the Caribbean, your nearest suitable alternate could be further away than just 100nm.

Embraer announced last year that the E295 MTOW and range will be bumped up to 62.5t and 3,000nm, but they haven't said anything about when those frames will roll out of the factory, or if previous frames will be able to accept the MTOW and range bump. So right now, PD's frames can't do those numbers. The latest E295s they received last March still shows a MTOW of only 62t.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur...r=RchSimp.aspx

hollywoodcory Jun 10, 2025 4:00 PM

https://www.travelpulse.ca/news/airl...hts-to-managua

First real winter announcement for WS came late last week, with seasonal YUL-MGA. Just like every other WS flown sun destination from YUL it is only bookable via Sunwing Vacations.

Dominion301 Jun 10, 2025 6:55 PM

Today was the inaugural YYZ-YDF for PD and the inaugural YYZ-YYG is this Friday: https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...-Canada-Routes

thenoflyzone Jun 10, 2025 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 10439135)
https://www.travelpulse.ca/news/airl...hts-to-managua

First real winter announcement for WS came late last week, with seasonal YUL-MGA. Just like every other WS flown sun destination from YUL it is only bookable via Sunwing Vacations.

I believe TS flew to MGA in the past as well. Nice add. All we need are flights to Belize and Honduras, and every single Central American country will be covered !

YYZ has Belize and Honduras, but they don't have flights to Nicaragua or Guatemala.

Hopefully WS will open these flights for sale on their own website as well.

Dominion301 Jun 10, 2025 9:19 PM

YZV, which is one of the 18 airports Transport Canada still operates, is seeing its main runway get rehabilitated this summer. This article (in French) has some cool pics of the work in progress: https://lenord-cotier.com/2025/06/05...s-a-laeroport/

zahav Jun 11, 2025 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 10438321)
AI used to have access to Pakistani airspace. They don't anymore.

YVR-DEL used to route eastbound. Due to the Pakistani airspace constraints, they now route it westbound out of YVR. Westbound=headwinds. That's why the stop in CCU is needed.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...ai186#3ab1b7c6

DEL-YVR can be done non stop because they now route it eastbound as well, meaning tailwinds most of the way. So even though distance wise, it's longer than over Pakistan and Russia, time wise, it's quicker.

Oh right yes, I recall now hearing this a few weeks ago. I always thought India and Pakistan were always prohibited from using each other's airspace, I was surprised this was a new occurrence. I didn't realize so much Indian traffic went over Pakistan anyways, or that detouring was enough to make routes unviable. Russian airspace closures causing major route interference made sense, as it covers such a huge area basically on top of everything from Turkey to Japan, so it blocks a massive swath. But obviously it did make a big difference, enough to drastically re route. Who'd have thought we'd be contending with not one but two airspace closures, ugh.. For the longest time we yearned for new non stop routes, destinations, etc. and it was aircraft limitations and/or financial viability that held us back. No sooner do we start getting the fun routes (ie. the right aircraft and economics make sense) then suddenly geopolitical becomes an issue lol, can't catch a break! The airline industry really gets sideswiped all the time, good times never last long and they get battered by so many forces. So I guess this is all just part of a historic pattern of external shocks that rattle the industry, just seems to be a lot right now, and so many self imposed (ie. the trade war telling people to not go to the US).

It looks like WS is playing with July schedules at the moment, certain random flights I am seeing frequency decreases; they are often just for a few weeks, but some seem to be the whole summer. I have already done my full WS schedule so many frickin times, I can't keep up with how much they change now, if I had more time/energy I'd gladly do it, but it's time consuming. Most years there wouldn't be so many late changes, but thus is the world we are in. I am not surprised at all, I always said it seemed unrealistic that WS could operate as much as it planned to given the plumetting travel demand to/from the US.

Some random routes I checked and noticed changes on include (reference week July 14-20):
YEG-SFO down to 1x weekly from 2x
YEG-LAS down to 7x weekly from 9x
YEG-ORD down to 1x weekly from 2x
YEG-SLC down to 2x weekly from 3x
YEG-BNA down to 1x weekly (this may not be new, I overwrote my previous number and saved over, so can't remember if this was a new decrease)
YVR-LAS down to 10x weekly from 12x
YVR-LAX down to 7x weekly from 10x
YVR-BOS down to 5x weekly from 7x
YVR-BNA down to 1x weekly from 2x
YVR-ATL down to 12x weekly from 15x
**All comparisons are with the schedule that was in effect on June 7th, which was already a big change from months before

YVR was always going to be hit hardest because of this, I said many times. Other cities already had transborder trimmed hugely, so there wasn't much meat left on the bone to trim (ie. YYZ didn't seem to change in this update, but the transborder service had already been hacked away so badly so not much more they could do). But YVR still had a lot of capacity/frequency transborder, even up till last week, it baffled me they hadn't cut some yet. So I am not surprised to see routes like LAX, LAS, and ATL loser some (they were all clocking almost or over 2x daily service). ATL at 15x weekly seemed the most outlandish in today's environment, so thought it could go down even more. Surprised DTW hangs on to 7x weekly. BNA is basically toast, the writing was really on the wall.

YEG losing was also expected to some degree, unfortunately it has left a lot of once or twice weekly flights, and many on routes that don't make sense to have such low frequency weekly (SFO, ORD, SLC). Hopefully this is temporary, I'd think operating so many once weekly leaves them vulnerable long term, folding into YYC would be a strong possibility. Such a large volume of 1x weekly really works with sun destinations and specialty package destinations, not so much for places like ORD, SFO, SLC. But hoping it is temporary and there's no long term issues.

I have no clue how YYC has changed, I haven't tackled their summer schedule at all so have no comparison. But they'd cut at YVR and YEG before they'd ever chop at YYC. Shouldn't surprise me that YYC is suffering way less due to the current US issues. I bet polls would show Calgarians are less likely to avoid US travel right now, especially compared to Torontonians or even Vancouverites. It's not like there's a lot of love between them and the rest of the country right now due to many political/economic factors (ie. Feds sniffling their industry). So wouldn't be a huge shock that in a fight between Carney and Trump, there isn't necessaerily a clear villain...

Dominion301 Jun 11, 2025 2:22 PM

For the first time since 2015 AY are returning to YYZ with a 3x weekly summer seasonal HEL-YYZ service.

https://company.finnair.com/en/media...9FB00482EF03BB

Dominion301 Jun 11, 2025 2:35 PM

WS in May ordered 7 more MAXes, but cancelled two others: https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ay-2025-06-10/

thenoflyzone Jun 11, 2025 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 10439615)
For the first time since 2015 AY are returning to YYZ with a 3x weekly summer seasonal HEL-YYZ service.

https://company.finnair.com/en/media...9FB00482EF03BB

YYZ continues to be on a roll ! That’s the 48th foreign carrier I believe.

msmariner Jun 11, 2025 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 10439546)
Oh right yes, I recall now hearing this a few weeks ago. I always thought India and Pakistan were always prohibited from using each other's airspace, I was surprised this was a new occurrence. I didn't realize so much Indian traffic went over Pakistan anyways, or that detouring was enough to make routes unviable. Russian airspace closures causing major route interference made sense, as it covers such a huge area basically on top of everything from Turkey to Japan, so it blocks a massive swath. But obviously it did make a big difference, enough to drastically re route. Who'd have thought we'd be contending with not one but two airspace closures, ugh.. For the longest time we yearned for new non stop routes, destinations, etc. and it was aircraft limitations and/or financial viability that held us back. No sooner do we start getting the fun routes (ie. the right aircraft and economics make sense) then suddenly geopolitical becomes an issue lol, can't catch a break! The airline industry really gets sideswiped all the time, good times never last long and they get battered by so many forces. So I guess this is all just part of a historic pattern of external shocks that rattle the industry, just seems to be a lot right now, and so many self imposed (ie. the trade war telling people to not go to the US).

It looks like WS is playing with July schedules at the moment, certain random flights I am seeing frequency decreases; they are often just for a few weeks, but some seem to be the whole summer. I have already done my full WS schedule so many frickin times, I can't keep up with how much they change now, if I had more time/energy I'd gladly do it, but it's time consuming. Most years there wouldn't be so many late changes, but thus is the world we are in. I am not surprised at all, I always said it seemed unrealistic that WS could operate as much as it planned to given the plumetting travel demand to/from the US.

Some random routes I checked and noticed changes on include (reference week July 14-20):
YEG-SFO down to 1x weekly from 2x
YEG-LAS down to 7x weekly from 9x
YEG-ORD down to 1x weekly from 2x
YEG-SLC down to 2x weekly from 3x
YEG-BNA down to 1x weekly (this may not be new, I overwrote my previous number and saved over, so can't remember if this was a new decrease)
YVR-LAS down to 10x weekly from 12x
YVR-LAX down to 7x weekly from 10x
YVR-BOS down to 5x weekly from 7x
YVR-BNA down to 1x weekly from 2x
YVR-ATL down to 12x weekly from 15x
**All comparisons are with the schedule that was in effect on June 7th, which was already a big change from months before

YVR was always going to be hit hardest because of this, I said many times. Other cities already had transborder trimmed hugely, so there wasn't much meat left on the bone to trim (ie. YYZ didn't seem to change in this update, but the transborder service had already been hacked away so badly so not much more they could do). But YVR still had a lot of capacity/frequency transborder, even up till last week, it baffled me they hadn't cut some yet. So I am not surprised to see routes like LAX, LAS, and ATL loser some (they were all clocking almost or over 2x daily service). ATL at 15x weekly seemed the most outlandish in today's environment, so thought it could go down even more. Surprised DTW hangs on to 7x weekly. BNA is basically toast, the writing was really on the wall.

YEG losing was also expected to some degree, unfortunately it has left a lot of once or twice weekly flights, and many on routes that don't make sense to have such low frequency weekly (SFO, ORD, SLC). Hopefully this is temporary, I'd think operating so many once weekly leaves them vulnerable long term, folding into YYC would be a strong possibility. Such a large volume of 1x weekly really works with sun destinations and specialty package destinations, not so much for places like ORD, SFO, SLC. But hoping it is temporary and there's no long term issues.

I have no clue how YYC has changed, I haven't tackled their summer schedule at all so have no comparison. But they'd cut at YVR and YEG before they'd ever chop at YYC. Shouldn't surprise me that YYC is suffering way less due to the current US issues. I bet polls would show Calgarians are less likely to avoid US travel right now, especially compared to Torontonians or even Vancouverites. It's not like there's a lot of love between them and the rest of the country right now due to many political/economic factors (ie. Feds sniffling their industry). So wouldn't be a huge shock that in a fight between Carney and Trump, there isn't necessaerily a clear villain...

Calgary and Edmonton aren’t where the political nut jobs come from in Alberta. Most of the Pandering Smith does for the extremists are small town Alberta.

ninjakafi_81 Jun 11, 2025 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca (Post 10437442)
I had heard from someone there was talk of YYC to PTY (Panama City) If that sounds right, you don't have to say anything, just nod ;)

This was posted the other day

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-108

Quote:

Determination No. A-2025-108
June 10, 2025
Application by WestJet (applicant) pursuant to subsection 69(1) of the Canada Transportation Act, SC 1996, c 10 (CTA)

Case number:
25-29634
The applicant has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for a licence to operate a scheduled international service, large aircraft, in accordance with the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the Republic of Panama on Air Transport, signed on February 6, 2020, as amended (Agreement).

The Agency is satisfied that the applicant meets all the applicable requirements of subsection 69(1) of the CTA. The Agency also finds that the pertinent terms and conditions of the Agreement have been complied with.

Accordingly, the Agency issues the licence.

Pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA, the licence is subject to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, and the following conditions:

1. The Licensee is authorized to operate a scheduled international service, large aircraft, on the route(s) set out in the Agreement.
2. The scheduled international service, large aircraft, is to be conducted in accordance with the Agreement and any applicable arrangements agreed to between Canada and Panama.

thenoflyzone Jun 11, 2025 9:41 PM

^ that application is needed in order to take over YUL-RIH from Sunwing (which they’ve confirmed they will), so it doesn’t necessarily give us any indication of a new YYC-Panama route.

kwoldtimer Jun 11, 2025 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 10439988)
^ that application is needed in order to take over YUL-RIH from Sunwing (which they’ve confirmed they will), so it doesn’t necessarily give us any indication of a new YYC-Panama route.

Is that a charter run or scheduled service?

thenoflyzone Jun 11, 2025 11:24 PM

^ It doesn’t matter. Either way, WS needed to apply for a license to operate to Panama. The wording in the bilateral agreements talk about “x number of passenger flights”. It makes no distinction of scheduled or non-scheduled. In fact, in the agreement with Panama, there is specific wording that says non-scheduled flights have to follow the same rules as scheduled flights.

See article 19 in the treaty with Panama linked below:

https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text...57471239214633

JakeLRS Jun 12, 2025 1:19 AM

Rumour Mill has it that Flair's 5 year contract is with the NHL.

They'll be taking their two -800's out of service, reconfiguring them to a 60 seat business and repainting them.

In insanely lucrative deal if true and would be a primary reason why the YKF base is being shuttered. A huge jackpot for them here.

I'm just shocked how AC lost the contract (or why they let it go).

RomanR27 Jun 12, 2025 1:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 10440088)
Rumour Mill has it that Flair's 5 year contract is with the NHL.

They'll be taking their two -800's out of service, reconfiguring them to a 60 seat business and repainting them.

In insanely lucrative deal if true and would be a primary reason why the YKF base is being shuttered. A huge jackpot for them here.

I'm just shocked how AC lost the contract (or why they let it go).

Could be American teams? I believe AC has done the charters for a handful of American teams.

Actually, I remember when the Blue Jackets were in Ottawa this year, one of their charters home was on Flair. I'm sure that was a fun ride for the players.

https://es.flightaware.com/live/flig...300Z/CYOW/KCMH

Dominion301 Jun 12, 2025 2:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 10440007)
Is that a charter run or scheduled service?

Just about all sun flying nowadays is scheduled but it wouldn’t matter either way.


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