Its true Denver has come a long way since 1990, but it takes forward-thinking planning if the goal is to have transportation systems that are on par with - or at least induce development patterns similar to that of major European cities.

One of them is creating transportation right-of-ways, or at least planning for them, decades in advance and creating zones and policies based on where the goal - say a high speed or commuter rail link to the South or West (think Colorado Springs or Frisco) - or a much higher capacity and frequent link to the north metro corridor. These are all natural (if not already planned) extensions of the FasTracks system, and as far as I can see, the Denver Union Station project is not designed to be expandable to accomodate them - especially space for additional platforms or access to right of way South. The solution back when the Union Station Advocates were out arguing this case was to put new rail right of way underground!
Erm... There is a bus station there now.

You're building a transportation center that you know is going to be a hit. Of any professionals, transit planners should know better than others that this system will create a desire for better transit access citywide - the desire created by the SouthEast/West light rail corridors spurred support for the FasTracks system! There is a craving for better, and high-speed and urban transportation systems, it will grow with the opening of the East, Gold, and West rail lines.

What is the solution? Whatever it is, it will be very expensive and tomorrow's planners (hopefully me - if I graduate from this darned college) will resent Today's decisions for not being designed to be scaled up.

We do it in our roadways all the time. Almost always you can find more right-of-way for more lanes.

Why not more rail platforms?

LMAO! They are not sacred!

History judges by the ultimate result, not the intent!

Look at the results yourself, and, seperate yourself from the people and just look at what the 'gang' has done. Nothing is 'world class'; opportunities have been lost; many billions will be spent down the line to remedy the mistakes that riddle our emerging transportation system. The 'gang' has not created this mess without input from literally hundreds of people (predominantly powerless) who warned RTD, the City Council, the Denver Post, their local representatives, radio, the internet etc., about the consequences of plans chosen.

But, the 'gang', like all gangs, is a power sharing clique, whose internal exchange of favors often is not for the public good.

A classic example is our Denver City council speaking out against the Western Stock Show move. This decision is the consequence of conversations which we are not privy to, and, involvse the exchange of favors between members of the Council and 'sponsors.' The time was well chosen, and, was coordinated well with the print media.

And, of course the 'gangsters' will always EXPECT to be praised for their results as being "in the public interest" and made in the name of an illiterate public who is incapable of understanding the 'subtleties' involved.

Historically, this is horse sh**- always has been, and, always will be.

And, as history so often tells us, the tax payer, the small business owner, the modest home owner, and, the renter always end up bailing the 'gangsters' out.

People that have seen what the best of the world has to offer when returning to their home county and city very often have been stunned, disappointed, and, angered by the actions of cliques, acting in their name.

Bravo to them!

When the dreamers and the brilliant pass, most often, their works are either forgotten, or eulogized by the very people that failed to see their astuteness while alive. The short sighted, profit taking 'gangs' of the time may even put up a statue or change the name of a street to the deceased, but very seldom change their methodology or improve the 'quality of their collective work in response to innovation and careful planning on the part of thinkers, as they are chained by renumeration created 'golden handcuffs'

^Sounds as if someone has a chip on their shoulder because they aren't listened to as they are one of the "little people".

If you want to heard, then work to become a "big person".

Me too!

I'm going to guess that the end of line at the Taj Mahal and around the Platte are keys. I know they've been focused on nearby roadway, cul de sacs etc. before the worst of the weather sets in.

I'm assuming that through the winter they can still work on laying ballast, track, and installing catenary lines. There's a good bit of catenary to go. Seems like I recall that they are to test the trains for six months.
But if they could get all the track and catenary lines done, they could start testing the trains while working on the rest.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they opened early. The key will be to watch for when they are able to start testing the trains.

I'm sure we've all waited with baited breath, haven't we, for them to finally pick the names for the West Line stations. It has been done. I see they used some good creativity.
I was hoping maybe they would use birds of the Rockies to name them, but they didn't want to be that creative.

They're winners: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/u...tober_2011.pdf

As if adding "Lakewood" to the Wadsworth Station is going to bring Belmar closer than the 2 miles away it actually is.

Sorry, really... I forgot you haven't been around long enough to remember how much I have criticized the plan at Union Station(ish). I've stopped lately because Denver has apparently changed from DIA projects to "it's better than nothing" projects and just got tired of exactly the attitude I (sarcastically) used in response to you. I don't agree with everything you say around here but on this issue I'm 100% with you.

I'd venture that attitude shift isn't limited to Denver. I think most of America is in settling mode these days. I'm not sure that's unhealthy either. A little bit of "it's better than nothing" modesty might be a good thing. And while I'd prefer it not encroach on our architecture, I'm really not sure we can afford (in real terms, or in terms of emotional/political capital) to build great things anymore. Great infrastructure requires a level of trust in government that flat out does not exist anymore.

Sad.... true... though "right now" instead of "anymore" I hope.

"You say you want a revolution...."

BTW, Reds Rock College station? WTF?

Good take. The days of trying to satisfy everybody's wet dream are indeed gone.

However and butt... I'm still hoping that once the Super Committee finishes their work that we may get some level of a "jobs bill" out of Congress. Republicans haven't done especially well with their
messaging of late and most recognize the need for infrastructure investment. Keeping fingers crossed.

Then there's the matter of the "transportation bill" which was again extended - to March. Likely they'll just again extend it until after the election at the same level of funding.

As for civic projects, they appear to be drying up. Those that are still under construction were helped along by the original Stimulus and States have little capacity for funding new stuff.

Haven't really seen any drop off in quality though. Where there is funding, like with apartments, builders like Zocalo et al appear to be making no sacrifices and Leed/sustainable is still a viable trend.
Utility infrastructure has no need to cut corners and there are several w/s type projects proceeding in Colorado/Denver.
Good enough for me: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8775

It's always better to be lucky than good. Of course those that work hard and smart are more likely to be lucky. Denver's timing could not have been better with a $1 billion FFGA
and $300 million in loans for Union Station.... talk about being blessed. :)

Do you think there will be a lot of accelerated gentrification around the eastern West Line stations like Federal, Perry and Sheridan? Those neighborhoods are mostly small homes many of which are pretty rundown. Just curious how you think the new rail line will change that area south of Colfax.

I don't think it will change them at all, at least, not unless funding is identified to do some big time DHA/HOPE VI redevelopment, or some sort of larger DURA-initiated redevelopment. The housing stock is junk and unworthy of investment/gentrification, there are few large properties available for redevelopment. Anything there will be public-driven, and probably not private-sector-driven "gentrification". There's still two decades worth of better redevelopment opportunities north of Colfax, around Sloans Lake and the St. Anthony's site. And even that is, I think, going to be a relatively tough sell.

And there are also better opportunities at some of the stations farther west on that line.

There are transit stations all over the country that are not spurring large-scale TODs. Denver's done okay so far, but it's a myth to think that transit alone automatically lifts a neighborhood and drives redevelopment at every station along the line. It can help, but it doesn't have to.

Decatur-Federal has some pretty large opportunity properties that will come into play in the near future. Xcel, CCD, and The Stadium District are all major players in and around that station.

And expect Sun Valley to be DHA's next big project.

Knox and Perry will see limited smaller development. Nothing substantial. Not sure about gentrification.

Sheridan will see some larger development. Lakewood, ULC, RTD, and CCD have significant plans for that station. We'll see how it pans out.

Well all over the country ain't Denver and Denver ain't no myth. :D

I know they've had discussions about Sun Valley so yes it's a great opportunity for DHA. But first they've got Lincoln Park to do. How quickly that funding materializes is now
open to question. Maybe they could secure funding for Sun Valley if they did some public-private stuff?

Seems like I've been everywhere at least once, but I can't visualize the homes at Perry/Knox. Thought of the same thing though, likely a nice opportunity for smaller contractors to do
updates, fix n' flips etc. I also can't recall if that housing group has acquired land here?

Actually I seem to recall dating a gurl waaay back who live around here?? Small but cute place, at least where she lived. Bed(room) bath and kitchen's all I needed.

Like Bunt alluded it's a pretty non-descript neighborhood. It basically could be leveled and started over from scratch if the demand was there. I don't think that will happen anytime soon but the new stations definitely increase the potential value of that area. You would only be 2-3 stops from Union Station and bordering the revitalizing sections of Sloan Lake and Jefferson Park to the north.

I scanned through my foreclosure files, but don't seem to have any pictures handy. I probably don't save them, because for all the activity around there at the auctions - and it's substantial - there's just not much worth actually bidding on.

The problem there is going to be the size/build of the homes. You're looking at homes in the 800-1200 square foot range, old and stick built. We talk a lot about "good bones" in neighborhoods. Well, that's bad bones. There's only so high those houses can go per-square-foot. And so there's only so much added value those houses can absorb. It would make it awfully hard to do high-dollar fix-and-flips, there's just no margin for it. You drop $20k into an 800sf house, you've got to add $25 per square foot to break even. And that's just not happening unless the house is a total wreck and you can fix it up on the serious cheap.

The increase in values around light rail stations has been relatively modest anyways, and will become more modest as we build more of them. The areas that have seen real appreciation have other things going for them as well.
-Houses west of Broadway at Evans are still significantly cheaper than those east of Broadway, which you'd imagine would be the opposite if the light rail was the driver of home values down there (it's not - that would be proximity to Old South Pearl).
-Englewood is hardly unaffordable.
-Littleton's expensive, but that's not only to do with the light rail.
-Mineral - prices probably go up as you move away from the station, because proximity to light rail also means proximity to freight rail/major traffic.
-Yale - still one of the more affordable (albeit suburbanish) neighborhoods in Denver proper.

In fact, I can't think of a single station today that is gentrifying because of the light rail. We have TOD, yes. We have gentrification, yes. But everywhere it's happening, I can point to other factors, and in most cases they pre-date the light rail.

I also think TOD itself is probably more helpful than the light rail station for surrounding property values, despite all of the nonsense fears out there about density. "Placemaking" in planner-speak is far more important to property values (residential) than raw proximity to the transportation infrastructure. Transit gives great opportunities for placemaking - often in conjunction with TOD for new systems, but not necessarily - so I think that gets confused with transit driving up property values broadly. But like I said before, it's perfectly possible to create a train station that doesn't create any sort of place, and doesn't do a thing for surrounding properties. Oxford Station, anybody? RTD is actually quite talented at making bland stations that contribute absolutely nothing to their surroundings, and/or stand completely apart from them. If ever transit folks in America become self confident enough to engage in some self-deprecating humor, I think RTD would be an obvious candidate for "worst new station designs."

Hmm, the place I hung out at was brick. Not this area, then.

Now Yale I can recall. Haha, very first house in U-Hills @ $22,350. My (then) six year old and I spent lots of time at Eisenhower Park, riding bikes along the High Line. As I recall,
the High Line was one of the first bike trails they built. Tis beautiful along the trail, especially spring/fall. Always enjoyed meeting older folk who would have the neatest yards.
Had a friend off of Arapahoe... that was suburban. Needless to say lots has changed since the early 70's.

It's crossed my mind that the area would be great for redevelopment. Crap little houses, but neat neighborhood (to me). I've visualized the area south of Yale to the High Line, east of Dahlia to the freeway.

Oxford... who wouldathunk? Mineral... across Santa Fe, there's a brand new apartment complex. I checked out their web site . They're getting "all the money" for those places. Beautiful setting, though.

I don't think gentrification is really the right idea, just opportunities for redevelopment. I think the West Line will provide some great opportunities... over time, like decades.
Presumably you could do some very affordable assemblage near Perry.

Federal should provide a much more dense, urban opportunity.
I can recall reading just a fascinating history piece about Sun Valley. There's this old gal that's lived there over 30 years. Regardless of ethnicity, language or gangs, she was kid friendly
and everybody knew and loved her. She was their rock. :tup:

That's funny too.

The establishment, whether it builds pyramids or railroads, will wear out talent with 'reality orientation.' For every Michelangelo that makes it, there are 1,000 Angelo Rigotonis that play games and produce mediocrity.

And that is fact, particularly in a contracting economy, or at least one in the state of relative peace..

Innovators, thinkers, etc., are very seldom accepted, and, the vast majority live bitter lives. Thinkers are only wanted when the barbarians are at the gates and the local establishment cannot handle the impending change in reality. Innovators tend to hated by organizations of all stripes and can only make it as independent entrepreneurs, or sci-fi writers (and often they are neither business people or writers)

Well, we are entering a time when nothing works, and, where the old order will turn fascist before sitting down and facing a) the declining military and business power of the US b) the rise in the price of commodities (read: end of cheap energy) c) the burden of aging populations; d) the dumbing down of the young; e) the prolonged issuance of debt in lieu of people having to face reality, etc.

And, sir, this extends top to bottom in the US right now. RTD is as off kilter in terms of what 2030 will bring, as is General Motors, Exxon, Goldman Sachs etc., is terms of their bottom line in 2015! The Denver city council is as lost as the Federal Senate and the House of Representatives.

The media has degenerated into a cheap propoganda machine, pumping out what it PAID to pump out.

So, sir, I am telling you that you, and, I are OLD school, regardless of our age, computer literacy, or IQ.

So, then, how do we change things?

Let's be fair, for every Pope commissioning a creative work, there are a billion "regular" wealthy patrons who require their personal artistic geniuses to work within a budget.

We could ask Calatrava. Something tells me he'd much rather work for His Holiness than Kim Day given the opportunity.

Creativity requires the warm comfortable blanket of wealth and security to flourish. I think that's exactly the opposite of what you're saying.