Of course there's still boat shows, etc. The Warplane museum has been hosting such events.

So we dont need a new 17,500 seat arena to host boat and car shows, rather a new convention centre.

Re car shows / boat shows, etc.

Just a final note. Some of you, no offense intended of course, are likely too young to remember when car shows were a serious entertainment event - like, we marked it on our calendar kinda big. We're talking thousands and thousands of people flooding into Copps over the course of a few days to see next year's models, etc. - the concourses were jammed for days. Millennials aren't even bothering to get a driving license...

It's not a valid pretense for spending tens of millions of public dollars.

^ Car shows were great. Have a collectible auction like Barret Jackson would be great for a week at Copps. Give me the job to make those 19 shows ONLY that needed second bowl. I would pack this place. Hamilton and Haldimand are the best places around to get collection and antique cars and car parts. There is an enthuasim locally with collectable cars and bikes. Do a show for that. Would be awesome.

I also watched Bob Izumi fish in a glass tractor trailer truck for bass at Copps. Bought my first and only Mitchell reel that I still use.

Mitchell Reels
Constant‘s son-in-law, Charles Pons, joined the family business, now called Carpono & Pons, and was the moving spirit in the company. In the 1930’s they worked with two fishing tackle manufacturers to refine their round reel designs. They created the first prototype open-faced spinning reel in the latter part of the 1930s and a patent was granted in 1950 for this new reel design.

The true origin of the name Mitchell remains mysterious–Although Carpano & Pons had the intention to name their first reel “Michel”, they discovered this name was already used and patented so they gave the reel an American sounding name that was very in vogue at the time.

Car and boat shows don't need seating, they need floor space. An arena floor is less than 20,000 sq ft, very small for exhibit space for those type of shows. I would think a suburban multipad arena would be better suited for that. Surely Hamilton has facilities better suited for a boat show than a 17,000 seat arena?

The movable seating in the lower sections has certainly opened up the floor for larger trade shows and car shows and the like, but a 17.5K arena isn't needed for those. That's a poor reason for keeping FOC as it stands.

That said, if a cheaper reno option is available that holds upper-tier seating in reserve while creating a more intimate 9-10k bowl than the current curtain-contraption-setup can provide, it's worth discussion.

If Copps had a decent tenant and attendance, would we be having this conversation? Empty arenas do tend to suck more than full ones...

You'd probably still be talking about the same thing, but it would be whether to build a new NHL-size arena somewhere else or renovate Copps.

Staff report urges city to reject idea of Lime Ridge Mall arena
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9...ge-mall-arena/

The report from the Economic Development and Planning says that while the mountain area is an appropriate spot for intensification, an arena should not be part of that.

A Hamilton staff report that will be presented to councillors next week recommends against considering Bulldog owner Michael Andlauer's proposal for a new arena at Lime Ridge Mall.

The report from the Economic Development and Planning says that while the mountain area is an appropriate spot for intensification, an arena should not be part of that.

Staff is recommending that no further action be taken with regards to the new arena proposal, the report says.

Andlauer had proposed contributing up to $30 million toward construction of a new 6,000-seat arena attrached to the mall. He would then manage is for at least 20 years which would remove that cost and responsibility from the city. Cadillac Fairview would also lease the land on which it would sit to the city for 20 years at $1 a year.

The proposal Andlauer made to council in October also included a parking garage and partnership with Metrolinx to connect mountain commuters to GO service. The total cost was estimated at $126 million with the balance being taken on by the city and possibly other levels of government.

All of this would allow the aging FirstOntario Centre — which will require millions in maintenance and upgrades over the next few years — to be demolished and the land sold which would generate an infusion of cash for the city and create additional taxes.

In rejecting all this, staff cited a belief that there would be no savings from a mountain arena, such a facility wouldn't be much of an economic catalyst, moving an entertainment venue out of the downtown would fly in the face of the city's strategic plan, and building a facility with fewer than 10,0000 seats would hamper the city's attempts to attract major events.

From Feasibility of Locating a New Arena on the Hamilton Mountain (PED20008):

Net Budgetary Impact

After considering the cost of financing this new arena project over a 20-year period, the City’s total cost would be as follows:

Total Cost (In $2019): $149,498,696
Net Present Value: $101,608,984

Estimated cost of operating and maintaining the existing FirstOntario Centre over a 20-year period (“Status Quo”):

Total Cost (In $2019): $92,081,440
Net Present Value: $63,700,821


New Arena Proposal
6,000 Seat Arena and 1,800 Car Parking Garage

Total Cost in $2019 Over 20 Years: $149,498,696

Comprised of:
Arena Cost: $72 M
Parking Garage Cost: $67.5 M
Interest on Debt: $24 M
Capital Reserve Arena: $28.8 M
Capital Reserve Garage: $27 M

Less:
M. Andlauer’s Contribution: $30 M
FOC Site Sale Proceeds: $39.8 M

Net Present Value: $101,608,984


About that parking garage:

For the parking garage, staff is of the opinion that the estimated $30 K construction cost per stall is low. Based on industry benchmarks for an above-ground parking garage, a cost of $35 K - $40 K per stall would be a more appropriate range. Since the cost of constructing the proposed parking garage would be borne by the City, staff used a $37.5 K per stall as an estimate for their analysis. This assumption would increase the proposed cost of the parking garage from $54 M to $67.5 M and the total project cost from $126 M to $139.5 M.

Staff met with Cadillac Fairview and Michael Andlauer to learn more about the proposed “Park and Ride” program to assess the feasibility of securing funding from the Federal and Provincial governments. During these discussions, staff was made aware of preliminary discussions that Cadillac Fairview and Michael Andlauer have held with the Ministry of Transportation. Although Cadillac Fairview and Michael Andlauer have indicated they had a productive dialogue with the Provincial government on this subject, staff was not provided any evidence that this investment was imminent and was not able to get additional clarity from Metrolinx or the Ministry of Transportation.

Staff also noted that the City of Hamilton Council-approved Transportation Master Plan does not identify a “Park and Ride” program connecting the Mountain to the West Harbour GO station as strategic priority. When reviewing Metrolinx’s official Rapid Transit Network plan, there was no mention of this “Park and Ride” program. Given the uncertainty around the availability of this funding and the lack of Council direction to formally request these funds, staff is not able to include these cost offsets into the analysis of the proposal at this time.

Pearl Jam returns to Hamilton March 24
https://www.thespec.com/whatson-stor...lton-march-24/

Pearl Jam will perform at Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre March 24 as part of the rock band's North American launch tour for its upcoming album "Gigaton."

Tickets for the concert go on sale to the public Friday, Jan. 24, at 10 a.m. through Ticketmaster.ca and CoreEntertainment.ca.

"Gigaton," which is scheduled for release on March 27, is the multi-platinum-selling Seattle band's first album since the Grammy-winning "Lightning Bolt" in 2013.

"Making this record was a long journey," Pearl Jam lead guitarist Mike McCready said in a statement. "It was emotionally dark and confusing at times, but also an exciting and experimental road map to musical redemption.

"Collaborating my bandmates on 'Gigaton' ultimately gave me a greater love, awareness and knowledge of the need for human connection in these times."

Pearl Jam is no stranger to FirstOntario Centre, last performing their in 2011 and before that in 2005.



A 6000 seat arena on the Mountain wouldn't have likely been able to host this. It's too bad First can't pick up more shows like this when the Raptors and Leafs are in full swing.

I think Hamilton is big enough for both arenas. I like the idea of urbanizing LRM and multi-use. It would be successful and so would FOC with acts like Pearl Jam. Keep them coming.

Mall Road could be home to a few high rise condos. I took the Mohawk bus and was confused by its trip into LRM but then I thought it was a good idea the bus was packed with part-time workers. It takes some time to get to the west mountain bc of the mall stop. Expand that station like the one at Mohawk. And densify Wentworth/Linc/Mohawk. Could be a mini City Centre in Mississauga and Hamilton still could have a healthy downtown.

The City can barely afford to own one arena, let alone two competing against each other. The City cant afford capital upkeep of the existing arena which is going to have to be dealt with, as will the new arena in 30 years. FOC needs over $50m in bandaid repairs and a new arena/ parking at limeridge would cost the city over $100m. Also the land under FOC was going to be used to either finance the citys portion of a new arena, or part of a land shuffle with other downtown entertainment venues.

With so many competing priorities such as transit, social housing, water system, roads, aging community centres, the City doesnt have the money to run and upkeep two arenas. FOC is barely profitable with a permanent tenant, no way theres a business case to keep it running off of a couple of concerts a month.

I cant see how the path forward is anything but one arena wherever that site may be.

Random comparative: In October, Chatham's council rescoped an arena build, downgrading a 4,000-seat arena to a 2,200-seat facility once the municipality's CFO determined that the larger venue would come with an $86M price tag.

I think it's a matter of priorities. Where the money is spent. Copps hasn't had any upgrades since it was built. The City put off repairing and maintaining a Class A arena and now it seems are on the hook for 25 years of not doing anything. I think Hamilton could support a 18k downtown and 6k on the mountain. Do more than getting just one concert a month. I go back to boat shows car shows sportsman shows.

Car shows and sportsman shows dont warrant two arenas of 6k and 18k. If thats the play we should be looking at redeveloping our convention centre which is a glorified banquet hall. The entertainment precinct takes into account redeveloping the convention centre and a larger expanded one would be able to host those shows you mentioned. An upgraded larger convention centre is needed more than two arenas.

The City cant afford to pay for capital upkeep of its existing single arena. How would the city be able to “support” a second 6k arena if it cant even maintain its existing?

I agree its a matter of priorities. Council wouldnt prioritize running two arenas over transit, social housing, roads, parks, community centres etc.

Having said all that Council just voted against a Limeridge mall project. The vote was 11-3. It looks like the play is downtown, hopefully Carmens and some other big players step up to the table.

I don’t think some of you realize how broke the city is. We can barely maintain Copps and some of you think a second arena is a good idea. We are already taxed to hell with little to show for it, we shouldn’t even entertain the ridiculous idea of a second arena.

City councillors reject proposal to build an arena at Lime Ridge Mall
Hamilton Bulldogs owner has said he'll look at moving his OHL team

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...rena-1.5428441

The proposal for an arena at Lime Ridge Mall is almost dead at Hamilton city hall.

City councillors voted 11-3 on Wednesday to walk away from the idea put forward by mall ownwer Cadillac Fairview and Bulldogs hockey team owner Michael Andlauer that would have seen a 6,000-seat arena built at the central Mountain mall.

Three Mountain councillors fought for it. But overall, most said the city couldn't afford the project, and it shouldn't make a $126-million investment for a facility on private property.

"We're just giving money away to a private investor who's going to benefit," said Brenda Johnson, Ward 11 (Glanbrook) councillor.

"This had nothing to do with downtown versus the Mountain."

Andlauer and Cadillac Fairview, approached the city last year. The idea, city staff say, was a 6,000-seat arena, which would cost $72 million to build, plus $52 million to build an 1,800-vehicle parking garage. Cadillac Fairview has also talked about building a hotel on the site, and Andlauer pledged $30 million himself.

Council voted in October to discuss options with the two. A staff report says those talks show the city should walk away from the project.

Andlauer has said he'd consider moving his team if the city didn't downsize FirstOntario Centre, an aging arena where the OHL team is the main tenant. CBC News is pursuing comment from Andlauer.

How they voted

In favour of walking away from the Lime Ridge arena proposal:

Maureen Wilson (Ward 1), Jason Farr (2), Nrinder Nann (3), Chad Collins (5), John-Paul Danko (8), Brad Clark (9), Maria Pearson (10), Brenda Johnson (11), Arlene VanderBeek (13), Judi Partridge (15), Mayor Fred Eisenberger.

Opposed:

Tom Jackson (6), Esther Pauls (7), Terry Whitehead (14).

Terry Whitehead and Esther Pauls consistently make bad decisions, it's hilarious they're city councilors.