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Beedok Feb 18, 2016 9:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi (Post 7340511)
Highly unlikely. Even the highest projections has global population less than double what it is now by 2100, somewhere between 9 and 13 billion with most of the growth in Africa. A lot of the increase in our population can be attributable to higher lifespan and immigration in the last half century. The average global age will be past childbearing age in the near future, so the rate has to decline. The improving standards of living in developing countries could also mean that less people will be motivated to immigrate.

That said, if the North American population starts to decline, it would be smart for cities to be more efficient as they shrink, shedding suburban sprawl and maintaining their denser cores amid a contracting tax and labour base, so yeah bring on more urban subway lines!
North America has been driven by immigration for quite some time, and many parts of the world that are growing fast are pretty crowded, and starting to get rich enough to send out skilled immigrants. Canada is probably going to be pushing 50 million in just 50 years, and the cities will take most of that growth. At least doubling by 2100 is pretty likely for Montreal, tripling is pretty plausible. With double or triple it's population Montreal will need more metro lines.

You Need A Thneed Feb 18, 2016 9:46 PM
If you want to keep an updated list:

Calgary - Green line - ~40 km - 28 stations - starting 2017.

SkahHigh Feb 18, 2016 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed (Post 7340780)
If you want to keep an updated list:

Calgary - Green line - ~40 km - 28 stations - starting 2017.
Thank you!

FFX-ME Feb 18, 2016 11:35 PM
I suppose if you wanted to you could add:

Ottawa - Trillium line (extension) - 8 km - 5 station - starting 2018
Ottawa - Confederation line (extension) - 23 km - 14 stations - starting 2018

But they have been trying to secure funding for more extensions from what I hear so those numbers may not be final.

SkahHigh Feb 19, 2016 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 7340919)
I suppose if you wanted to you could add:

Ottawa - Trillium line (extension) - 8 km - 5 station - starting 2018
Ottawa - Confederation line (extension) - 23 km - 14 stations - starting 2018

But they have been trying to secure funding for more extensions from what I hear so those numbers may not be final.
When the numbers are finalized I'll add these two to the list.

1overcosc Feb 19, 2016 5:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend (Post 7336799)
Ha, well the federal government now charges for parking even in the suburbs as if transit is really an option for more than a few.

Service cuts have been a way of life in Ottawa since the 1990s both in off-peak and peak hours. The new strategy is to put an articulated bus on in order to avoid adding trips for particular routes. The worst thing came with double decker buses, which gave them an excuse to cut trips on many routes in the suburbs. To add to that was that double decker buses are much slower to operate, something that bloggers here denied, when city officials were informed in advance that this would be the case.
This is an important point. Ottawa's planners care too little about frequency. In their minds, once you've hit 15 minutes, service is frequent enough to be convenient, and there's no point making it better. They'll just jack up the capacity of routes to avoid having to go below 15 minutes. There's absolutely zero understanding or awareness that service at 10 minutes or 5 minutes is more convenient and attracts more riders.

It's true that once you're down to about 5 minutes or so, there's not much benefit from making it more frequent aside from capacity. But that's definitely NOT true at 15 minutes.

We recently had this debate in Kingston. When we introduced the express bus system, the city expected 15-minute service with standard buses to be enough to maintain adequate capacity until at least 2025, but ridership has grown so much faster than expected that peak period service is now overloaded. The transit planners had a meeting to decide how to solve this, and it was decided that despite their higher cost, frequency improvements were preferred due to increased customer convenience.

1overcosc Feb 19, 2016 5:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7340991)
When the numbers are finalized I'll add these two to the list.
The city has allocated its funding, and both the provincial and federal governments have pledged funding, but the paperwork isn't formal yet. I believe the city is aiming to have the tenders out by this summer, so we'll probably see it formalized very soon.

lrt's friend Feb 19, 2016 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7341596)
This is an important point. Ottawa's planners care too little about frequency. In their minds, once you've hit 15 minutes, service is frequent enough to be convenient, and there's no point making it better. They'll just jack up the capacity of routes to avoid having to go below 15 minutes. There's absolutely zero understanding or awareness that service at 10 minutes or 5 minutes is more convenient and attracts more riders.

It's true that once you're down to about 5 minutes or so, there's not much benefit from making it more frequent aside from capacity. But that's definitely NOT true at 15 minutes.

We recently had this debate in Kingston. When we introduced the express bus system, the city expected 15-minute service with standard buses to be enough to maintain adequate capacity until at least 2025, but ridership has grown so much faster than expected that peak period service is now overloaded. The transit planners had a meeting to decide how to solve this, and it was decided that despite their higher cost, frequency improvements were preferred due to increased customer convenience.
I agree with you.

Even at 15 minute frequency, it is a major impediment for transfers. You are asking people to stand around too long. You need to get this down to 10 minutes or even 5 minutes. Once you have it down to 5 minute frequency, then most people won't be concerned about transfers knowing that if they miss a connection, they won't be waiting very long.

Back in the olden days and I am talking about the 1970s, all the main central bus routes (former streetcar routes) ran every 10 minutes all day and on Saturdays. Those were the days before Sunday shopping. And because certain routes were actually branched or twinned, the busiest streets actually received 5 minute frequency or even better. Service during peak periods was even better when you might wait 2 to 6 minutes. This is the level of service that the TTC provides, but Ottawa abandoned that level of service in the name of efficiency and drove away a lot of short distance (cheap to service) riders in the process.

1overcosc Feb 19, 2016 11:11 PM
^ This is one of the saddest things about Ottawa's transit system. It was actually better in the 1970s and 1980s than it is today. There's not many other cities where that's true.

lrt's friend Feb 20, 2016 2:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7342189)
^ This is one of the saddest things about Ottawa's transit system. It was actually better in the 1970s and 1980s than it is today. There's not many other cities where that's true.
I remember when they first cut service on downtown routes to every 30 minutes before 10 am on Saturdays. I didn't know that they had done it. When I ended up waiting almost the entire 30 minutes to transfer at Billings Bridge, I had enough of it and never made that trip again. How many other riders were lost as a result of decisions made by the accountants, planners and computer experts?

SkahHigh Mar 16, 2016 3:18 PM
The Blue Line extension is expected to receive funding from the federal government, according to a local MP.

http://journalmetro.com/local/viller...o-de-montreal/

Rico Rommheim Mar 16, 2016 3:40 PM
Jesus I stopped caring about the blue line extension. By the time it'll be done, I'll be deeper into the ground then the metro tunnel.

And I will never use it, so it won't affect me personally. I mean, why would I ever want o go to Anjou? The people who live out east right now will probably have moved on to other hoods by then too.

I love the blue line, but for it to be more useful, it must be extended out west into NDG as well.

Rico Rommheim Mar 16, 2016 3:57 PM
Ideally something like this, terminating at Montreal-West station.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1685/...ea61f335_b.jpg
Blue Line extensions by Rommheim, on Flickr

1overcosc Mar 16, 2016 11:04 PM
From an outsider's point of view, it does seem like a western extension of the Blue Line into NDG is an obvious project; in fact, given the density in that area, it actually seems to make more sense than extending the line east. I know that a western extension beyond Snowdon was planned in the past.

I hate to think this, but I wonder if the linguistic demographics are at play; ie. the city/province is more interested in building metro lines to francophone neighbourhoods (Anjou) rather than anglophone ones (NDG).

Laceoflight Mar 16, 2016 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7373687)
From an outsider's point of view, it does seem like a western extension of the Blue Line into NDG is an obvious project; in fact, given the density in that area, it actually seems to make more sense than extending the line east. I know that a western extension beyond Snowdon was planned in the past.

I hate to think this, but I wonder if the linguistic demographics are at play; ie. the city/province is more interested in building metro lines to francophone neighbourhoods (Anjou) rather than anglophone ones (NDG).
I guess it's just that you don't know the East very well, is that the case? Saint-Michel, the southern and western parts of Saint-Léonard and most of Rosemont and the north of Mercier are pretty dense. And I'm not even talking about Montréal-Nord, a dense borough that could potentially benefit from the eastern extension! Notre-Dame-de-Grâce is dense too, but there are enclaves like Hampstead or Montréal-Ouest that are not. Plus Côte-Saint-Luc, Hampstead and Montréal-Ouest are not part of the city of Montreal, thus the situation is not as simple as in the East. The extension to NDG is capital in my opinion, but still less important (dans l'immédiat) than the eastern extension.

SkahHigh Mar 16, 2016 11:32 PM
The extension should go both East and West, but it'll only go East.

A Metro connection at Montreal-West station would be beneficial, as would be a Metro station at the Loyola Campus of Concordia University.

Rico Rommheim Mar 17, 2016 12:21 AM
There is of course no doubt that the eastern edge of the city needs this blue line bad. After all it's 700,000 people who live there. The combined population of Hampstead, Montreal-West, N-D-G and Cote-St-Luc is 110,000. It's dense enough for a metro but mostly importantly the west-end of town is served by some pretty terrible bus routes and suffers from a lack of direct and quick connection to the downtown core.

I know people who've been living in Montreal for years and were shocked when they discovered NDG.

SkahHigh Mar 17, 2016 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 7373771)
There is of course no doubt that the eastern edge of the city needs this blue line bad. After all it's 700,000 people who live there. The combined population of Hampstead, Montreal-West, N-D-G and Cote-St-Luc is 110,000. It's dense enough for a metro but mostly importantly the west-end of town is served by some pretty terrible bus routes and suffers from a lack of direct and quick connection to the downtown core.

I know people who've been living in Montreal for years and were shocked when they discovered NDG.
The East would be best served by the Blue line extension and if service was bonified on the Mascouche line (I'm talking RER-type service).

Aylmer Mar 17, 2016 12:56 AM
From the perspective of urban form, a Metro makes a lot more sense to the west (where the tight grid prevents above-ground transportation from moving at a reasonable speed) and LRT would make more sense for Anjou (where the wide streets can allow for reasonably quick and reliable service at-grade. There's also the problem of the overcrowded eastern portion of the orange line, which can only get worse with an Anjou extension. If they went with LRT, it could go straight downtown via Pie-IX and René-Levesque. The western part of the orange line is remarkably underused in comparaison, so it could easily accommodate extra riders.

There are other factors in play, but I'm not convinced that the $3B to Anjou is the absolute best use of transit monies in the city.

1overcosc Mar 17, 2016 2:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7373780)
The East would be best served by the Blue line extension and if service was bonified on the Mascouche line (I'm talking RER-type service).
The Deux-Montagnes line also looks like a very promising RER route. I'm guessing the tunnel under the mountain is pretty deep; but if its feasible, building connections to McGill and Édouard-Montpetit metro stations would be a great addition to such a project.

SkahHigh Mar 17, 2016 3:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7373903)
The Deux-Montagnes line also looks like a very promising RER route. I'm guessing the tunnel under the mountain is pretty deep; but if its feasible, building connections to McGill and Édouard-Montpetit metro stations would be a great addition to such a project.
It was already studied for Edouard-Montpetit and the depth difference is too big unfortunately.

1overcosc Mar 17, 2016 4:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7373937)
It was already studied for Edouard-Montpetit and the depth difference is too big unfortunately.
Has a connection to the Green line at McGill ever been studied? I imagine it would be a lot shallower there.

Metro-One Mar 17, 2016 9:18 AM
A couple pictures of testing on the Evergreen Line in Coquitlam.

More pics in the link.

SkahHigh Mar 17, 2016 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7374009)
Has a connection to the Green line at McGill ever been studied? I imagine it would be a lot shallower there.
I don't think so.

A small update on the LRT/RT situation in Montreal:

Quote:
Talks on light-rail networks in Montreal to carry on in secret


Discussions on whether to construct light-rail lines on the new Champlain bridge and connecting downtown Montreal to Trudeau airport and the West Island are about to start between the city of Montreal and the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, but in secret.

Montreal’s city executive committee passed a resolution on Wednesday approving a confidentiality agreement with the province’s public pension fund manager, which the Quebec government authorized last year to take over the planning for the two light-rail lines from the Agence métropolitaine de transport (AMT).

The Caisse has created a subsidiary, CDPQ Infra, to manage the two projects. The projects were the subject of studies carried out by the AMT and the city, and the information in them is confidential, an executive summary accompanying the resolution says. The city had a non-disclosure agreement with the AMT as well, it adds.

The first step in the discussions between the city and CDPQ Infra is a mutual confidentiality agreement before they discuss the results of the studies, the summary says. Signing such an agreement, it says, is normal practice on major projects.

The province has estimated the two transit lines would cost $5 billion.
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...y-on-in-secret

Rico Rommheim Mar 17, 2016 1:43 PM
Just build it. I don't care how evil the process becomes. Just. Fooken. Build the rail lines already.

Aylmer Mar 17, 2016 2:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7373937)
It was already studied for Edouard-Montpetit and the depth difference is too big unfortunately.
Actually, IIRC, the study said it was feasible, that it would cost $200M, but that it was not a priority for the AMT.

It would be some 70m under the station, but that isn't unheard of: Stations like Washington's Forest Glen are just as deep and use a half dozen high-speed, high-capacity elevators to ferry passengers to and fro.

If ever the AMT does decide to go RER with high frequencies, a Édouard-Montpetit station transform mobility on the other side of Mount Royal: going from downtown to UdeM, one of Canada's largest universities, would go from 30 minutes to fewer than 5. That is MASSIVE!

SkahHigh Apr 10, 2016 2:15 AM
Glad they went with the LRT line, much greater potential.

Quote:
'It's a farce': West Island lobbyists concerned about Train de l'Ouest's future

A coalition of West Island mayors is worried about the future of the Train de l'Ouest.
They’ve long been pushing for passenger lines linking downtown to Ste-Anne de Bellevue.
A new interview with Premier Philippe Couillard glaringly omits the project, suggesting Quebec has other plans.

In a mid-term interview with La Presse, Couillard said the green light will soon be given to the Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec for two major electric public transportation projects that were announced last year, at an estimated cost of $5 billion.
One electric train will leave downtown Montreal to get to Trudeau Airport, and one will travel over the Champlain Bridge.
Couillard also spoke of the extension for the Montreal metro’s blue line.

West Island lobbyists for the Train de l'Ouest project say they're very concerned this may mean there's not enough money left for a new dedicated train along the existing Vaudreuil line. Their plan would include more stations and double the amount of departures along that corridor.

Clifford Lincoln, former MNA and head of the Train de l’Ouest coalition, has been lobbying for the service for years.

"It's a farce," said Lincoln. "If it means that it services the airport only and leaves out Pointe-Claire, Beaconsfield and Ste-Anne's residents, then it’s a farce. If it doesn't service our industrial sites, it’s a farce."

Lincoln has held many meetings with the Quebec government, and long battled for better train service for the western suburbs.

"We're always coming in last, and we're getting fed up. I tell you, we've fought very hard for something that is justified, for years and years our citizens have been asking for. It's almost as if our citizens don't count in the equation."

Baie-d'Urfé Mayor Maria Tutino said Couillard has been in their corner.

“The train de l'Ouest is a project that the government of Quebec, including the premier, has been openly, publicly, and financially supportive of.

The premier's office could not be reached for comment Saturday.

In the La Presse interview, he touts the airport rail line, saying it will "improve the quality of life for residents of the West Island."

Airport authority Aéroports de Montreal endorsed alternate route to Dorval, which would then travel north to Dollard, stopping near Fairview in Pointe-Claire.

The Caisse reportedly may not build beyond the airport any time soon, however, another point of concern for West Island mayors.
“All I can say is that the West Island doesn't stop at the airport. That's not what we consider the West Island,” said Beaconsfield Mayor Georges Bourelle.
Tutino is demanding answers from local MNAs.
“I'm expecting the government to say, ‘Don’t worry, be happy. That is the Caisse's solution, now here's the government's solution and the Train de l'Ouest will be done by 2020,’” she said.
The announcement on a final project is expected as early as next month.

With a report from La Presse Canadienne
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/it-s-a-fa...ture-1.2852382

GreaterMontréal Apr 10, 2016 11:51 AM
The LRT in Montréal will be, basically, 2 Canada Line . La Caisse owns 33% of the Canada Line.

MalcolmTucker Apr 11, 2016 3:47 PM
In financing entirely different. In construction and operation, sure.

SkahHigh Apr 11, 2016 6:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker (Post 7403287)
In financing entirely different. In construction and operation, sure.
I believe he was talking about the technology employed, although we're not entirely sure yet.

GreaterMontréal Apr 11, 2016 8:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7403519)
I believe he was talking about the technology employed, although we're not entirely sure yet.
Avec une projection du ridership à 90,000 sur Champlain, ça en prendrait pas beaucoup sur le reste de la ligne pour avoir le même nombre que la Canada Line, qui était de 136,000 en 2011. aujourd'hui on a 20,000 déplacements par voitures et 22,000 par transport en commun.

Ontario1 Apr 17, 2016 5:34 AM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1501/2...69f0469c_k.jpg

King Street railway overpass for Waterloo Region's ION LRT project.
(photo by Me)

Ontario1 Apr 17, 2016 5:51 AM
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1658/2...f3412342_k.jpg

Filling in the LRT tracks with concrete at Charles and Benton in Kitchener.
(Photo by Me)

Ontario1 Apr 17, 2016 6:17 AM
https://www.facebook.com/rideION/?fref=photo

ssiguy Apr 18, 2016 5:37 AM
Are these Montreal LRT lines going to be real rapid transit like Calgary's CTrain or just glorified streetcars like Toronto's Finch LRT?

gunnar777 Apr 18, 2016 8:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy (Post 7411280)
Are these Montreal LRT lines going to be real rapid transit like Calgary's CTrain or just glorified streetcars like Toronto's Finch LRT?
My understanding is: neither. The "LRT" is somewhat of a misnomer here (not to open up the RT/LRT debate yet again). Functionally, this system is likely to resemble Vancouver's Skytrain, which makes it a metro, although with its smaller trainsets, some will call it "mini-metro".

SkahHigh Apr 18, 2016 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnar777 (Post 7411305)
My understanding is: neither. The "LRT" is somewhat of a misnomer here (not to open up the RT/LRT debate yet again). Functionally, this system is likely to resemble Vancouver's Skytrain, which makes it a metro, although with its smaller trainsets, some will call it "mini-metro".
Yep, they should be grade-separated.

FFX-ME Apr 18, 2016 1:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy (Post 7411280)
Are these Montreal LRT lines going to be real rapid transit like Calgary's CTrain or just glorified streetcars like Toronto's Finch LRT?

Lol! "Real" rapid transit like the ctrain. The Ctrain is not grade separated...

Daveography Apr 18, 2016 2:56 PM
^ Nonononononono not this AGAIN

scryer Apr 18, 2016 3:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveography (Post 7411458)
^ nonononononono not this again
lmao.

bomberjet Apr 18, 2016 8:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy (Post 7411280)
Are these Montreal LRT lines going to be real rapid transit like Calgary's CTrain or just glorified streetcars like Toronto's Finch LRT?
Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.

GreaterMontréal Apr 18, 2016 9:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 7411962)
Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.
The Champlain-South Shore LRT will be rapid transit with 2 tracks running side by side. The downtown-YUL line, probably single track

the ridership projection on Champlain is 90,000 ppd, by 2021. The South Shore line could see up to 130,000 ppd, maybe more, we'll see.

You Need A Thneed Apr 18, 2016 9:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 7411962)
Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.
Outside of the downtown area, not even close.

Chadillaccc Apr 18, 2016 9:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 7411962)
Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.
Maybe for like 10% of the system. I imagine you've never actually been on it, since it's recognized as the 2nd fastest (average speed) mass transit system in the country, behind the Skytrain.

Cyro Apr 18, 2016 9:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 7411962)
Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.




:banana:.....................;)

Yes, I rarely login to SSP after 4:18pm heheh but when I do it's for a really good reason...

caltrane74 Apr 18, 2016 11:45 PM
LRT Construction photos - Kitchener

reaperexpress at UT

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1483/2...6fba96da_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1497/2...ff93209e_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1483/2...b342dbfb_b.jpg

P0per at Urbantoronto
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1589/...3fdd8dd1_h.jpg

caltrane74 Apr 18, 2016 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet (Post 7411962)
Calgary's C-train is glorified streetcars.
Hey what's wrong with Streetcars, almost every main street in downtown Toronto has a streetcar service with the exception of Bay Street and those streets with subway service. I'm telling you guys, you will never love a bus the way you love a streetcar.

Speaking of Streetcars - Streetcar number 4419 has shipped from Sudbury to Toronto, there has been a massive delay with the streetcars and service is only available on two routes with the new rides, for a least the next little while.

http://www.blogto.com/upload/2015/07...streetcars.jpg
www.blogto.com

Innsertnamehere Apr 19, 2016 12:55 AM
Thunder Bay, not Sudbury.

Metro-One Apr 19, 2016 1:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 7412207)
Hey what's wrong with Streetcars, almost every main street in downtown Toronto has a streetcar service with the exception of Bay Street and those streets with subway service. I'm telling you guys, you will never love a bus the way you love a streetcar.

Speaking of Streetcars - Streetcar number 4419 has shipped from Sudbury to Toronto, there has been a massive delay with the streetcars and service is only available on two routes with the new rides, for a least the next little while.

http://www.blogto.com/upload/2015/07...streetcars.jpg
www.blogto.com
Streetcars are fine, but not when they are your backbone system ;)

caltrane74 Apr 19, 2016 1:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One (Post 7412295)
Streetcars are fine, but not when they are your backbone system ;)
So better to have buses rumbling through our downtown? No way!!!


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