there already is a price competition, ans seattle is winning.

Why is Seattle cheaper?

I dunno. but when my sister was on her way home from england it cost her less to fly from Seattle than it did for me to fly across canada (about 600 ish vs 750)

they have more airlines doing the routes and I suppose less taxes?

I know i looked at an airfare a while back to London and it was with all fees and taxes about $1200 (scheduled airlines not a charter) from Vancouver and it was $800 with all fees (scheduled airline) and stuff from Seattle - and that was about when the dollar was at par

Right now there are some "cheapish" deals from Vancouver on some charters but the thought of sitting like a sardine for so long is not too appealing

I once asked Air Canada why a Flight from SEA-KIX (Osaka) via YVR was consistently cheaper than YVR-KIX (it's the SAME flight)

They replied that YVR-KIX commanded a premium because it's direct. I didn't buy it and eventually they told me that it's because there is more competition out of Seattle from SEA-KIX so they lower their price to compete. I couldn't believe that I could drive down to Seattle fly to Vancouver and get on the SAME flight to Osaka for a few hundred dollars cheaper than skipping the Driving down to Seattle bit and just going from here.

The real reason, my guess, is a combination of those two things. Air Canada charged more 1) Because they could (similar to JAL pricing, but JAL routed through Tokyo) and 2) because they were trying to compete with US carriers on the route (which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, except that Seattle didn't have any Direct Flights and they're also trying to get the Japanese Customers who would go to Seattle, but not Vancouver... to see Ichiro, of course.)

oh please

Seattle has no flights to Osaka and only has two to Japan period (1 on United and Northwest, to NRT). there's not that many people coming from Japan to see Ichiro (I have been on the United flight many times to NRT - it's mostly Boeing and their/our business partners).

Im not buying Air Canada's excuse. If anything, Vancouver has way more competition (more flights) than Seattle does on every International route.

I believe the fare difference is solely to appeal to Seattle travelers so they can avoid transfering to SFO or LAX to go to KIX.

I will be in Vancouver (again) taking Air China to ChengDu in 2 months. Aside from the YVR-KIX monopoly that AC has, most flag carriers out of Vancouver have very reasonable rates than starting in Seattle and going through LAX or SFO.

I must say - it is nice to have two major airports so close (that one could drive or take Quick to catch cheap flights). In general, Seattle is cheaper for US flights while Vancouver is cheaper for International and Canadian domestic. Good times. :)

CKNW is reporting that the Federal government is expanding the customs support to allow for a 2nd Amtrak train between Seattle and Vancouver, starting in August and running until "after the 2010 Olympics" as a trial, at which time it will be re-evaluated.

Very welcome... but way to miss the summer tourism season!

Better late than never. I might give the service a try, both for myself and to boost the numbers!

It's expensive to expand an airport. While you don't pay the Airport Improvement fee at YVR separately, it's still there included in the ticket. As well, YVR pays rent to the federal government and who knows what they charge for fees to the airlines. When you have so many flights and want to offer more, it costs more money to upgrade your facilities.

As well, YVR is less efficient than SEA. YVR had 337,802 Aircraft Movements and 17,852,459 passengers in 2008. SEA had 345,242 Aircraft movements but had 32,196,528 passengers. Thus, YVR averages 53 passengers per plane and SEA averages 93 passengers per plane. Paying just the rent of the land works out to a cost of around $5 per passenger at YVR, and that doesn't include the cost of the buildings or services the airport offers.

But I think one of the main reasons flights are so expensive out of YVR is because they can be. Not only are a lot of international travelers from Vancouver very wealthy, but they have somewhat of a captive audience in Vancouver. The next closest airport is in another country and if you are traveling to Asia, who wants to go through US airport customs OR sit on a small bus for hours to fly out of SeaTac. And the road crossings suffer from very varied boarder wait times, whereas a train is more scheduled.

A high speed rail link would take some customers from YVR, but there is room for them and the airlines to lower prices to get those fliers back. Or they can continue to cater to the wealthy traveler while the flier looking for a discount can keep going to SeaTac (its up to them).

But a high speed rail link between Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland would automatically link the airports regardless of intent. But by offering a direct high speed connection to Abbostford airport between Vancouver and Seattle, YVR can offload some of the low volume regional flights to YXX.

By connecting the airports with high speed rail it would reduce the need for all airports to offer all flights as you can just travel to the other airport on a high speed train and fly from there as well as reduce the need for the flights that currently fly between the airports. By reducing the number of flights airlines need to provide to remain competitive, it reduces the cost of operating other flights and increases passengers per plane.

As the example someone used, a flight SEA -> YVR -> Japan was cheaper getting on in SEA than YVR. That's because it's expensive to land a plane pay airport fees, do a maintenance check, buy fuel, then take off again just to pick up some passengers. Landing and taking off again is probably adding 50% onto the cost of the flight, and probably less than 25% of passengers are boarding in YVR so it sort of makes sense. But I bet the airline would love it (and be cheaper for them thus cheaper for passengers) if they didn't need to do that because the airports were served by high speed trains.

And lowering the number of total flights in the entire region is also good for the environment. Connecting Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland by high speed rail is one of those situations where offering choice to the consumer will actually reduce waste (planes that aren't full).

Second daily train between Seattle and Vancouver


Katharine Kitts VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) | Friday, July 3rd, 2009 12:12 pm

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Canada's Public Safety Minister has announced that the feds will participate in a pilot project that will see a second daily Amtrak train between Seattle and Vancouver.

It's estimated a second train could add as much as $14 million dollars a year to BC's economy. Stephen Pearce with Tourism Vancouver says he's very pleased to hear the idea will get a chance, "We currently get about 30,000 passengers that are coming up here. This gives us more flexibility in terms of being able to extend their length of stay. The people that will be coming up with the second train, the majority of them will be staying overnight. I think it gives us more flexibility in terms of who we market to and how we market and the kinds of itineraries that we can take into the Washington State area."

Pearce adds, "[Travellers] don't have to feel rushed to see the city all in one day and treat it as a day trip. It gives us more opportunity to actually give people another option to come up here, rather than having to worry about driving and the border."

The pilot project will run from August through to the end of the 2010 Games and will be evaluated after the Olympics to see if there's enough traffic to merit maintaining the run.

There's currently only one train a day between Seattle and Vancouver and Pearce is confident the second will increase traffic on both sides of the border.

Vancouver mayor Gregor Roberston says it's a start, "We need to take more steps beyond that to improve the rail service to Seattle and Portland."

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/m...03_152026_6036

re the airports - i just flew in and out of Bellingham to San Francisco - via Oakland - which is actually closer to SF than the SF airport... anyway it was about $200 US return - we could have gotten it cheaper but my friend did some "upgrades" which boosted the price of the tix - such as seat selection and priority boarding - which btw was totaly worth it - you get space for your carry on! anyway it was good flight - about 90 minutes in the air and you are there - overall its about 2 hours in the plane i guess - b/ham is simple and small and security is easy, parking is quite cheap was $45 for 5 days ($9 a day) and than oakland was not too busy, easy to get to the BART and downtown from - a taxi is about $40-$50 from downtown san fran - not too bad when you split it really

the plane was full and the parking lot at b/ham was probably 75% canadian license plates

Great news!

So the second train will actually leave Vancouver in the morning and return in the evening? Any idea what the times might be? I've been wanting to take the train to Seattle for forever now, but the timing of a late night arrival there has never been appropriate for my needs. (EDIT I also hope it's timed right to make a connection to Portland without an overnight stay in Seattle).

Now all they need to do is extend the train that arrives in Vancouver in the morning to travel all the way to Whistler to allow Americans a one seat ride (with a stop for customs) to the major tourist destination. They should really consider that for the Olympics. I would pay a handsome sum to take the train there and avoid the Translink bus service on the highway (all I need is a train, and the money for the ticket).

I was wondering the times too - no mention in any of the articles I have read

hopefully in the morning

is there trackage that would let trains go from Vancouver to Whistler without taking forever to switch lines and go in a roundabout way? I know the tunnel that connects by Second Narrows Crossing ends up basically by Brentwood Mall.

more like at Gilmore Station.

Dawson between Madison and Rosser, but it's only 1/2 a wye.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=...19205&t=h&z=16

^ it gets more and more accurate.

Anyway, great news for the extra train to Seattle!

Just to clarify, If memory serves me correctly the SEA - YVR - KIX was actually using two planes. The YVR - KIX leg was shared (there was only one flight to KIX per day)
If the airlines code-shared this route or had some profit-sharing model they'd love it (high-speed trains are generally the same price as flights)
Yeah, it's the perfect distance, especially with a border and traffic, which can quickly turn a 2h 30min trip into a 4 hour voyage.

A True high speed train running at "California High Speed" max of 360km/h would average around 250km/h. This would make the trip in almost exactly an hour (assuming routing via Abbotsford)

Using current hardware (The Talgo trains) we are limited to max speeds of 200km/h which, if they could average 150-160km/h could do the trip in 90 minutes. I think anything under two hours would result in a LOT more passenger traffic. Doing the trip in 2 hours would require an average speed of about 110km/h - 120km/h ( depending on route, and including dwell time and acceleration and deceleration). I wonder what it would take to accomplish this?

EDIT:
Something else I was thinking about. One way to boost the numbers for this train is for Seattle Premium Outlets to Create and Advertise a Shuttle Bus from Everett Amtrak Station (timed with the train, of course) to the Outlets. It's 16km away, and it's mostly on the Interstate. There are lots of students who would like to go down the the outlets to get their designer brand fix. Considering, the QuickShuttle takes 4 hours and costs about the same, it may be a good service.

Found news on when the train will run
 

As expected, the second train from Vancouver will be a morning train:
source: Seattle Transit Blog