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whatnext
May 13, 2020, 10:53 PM
Tamara Vrooman, currently CEO of Vancity, will be taking over from Craig Richmond as CEO of YVR on July 1:

https://biv.com/article/2020/05/tamara-vrooman-be-president-and-ceo-vancouver-international-airport

Waders
May 14, 2020, 2:17 AM
Yes, construction has stopped for YVR expansion projects.

As additional terminal capacity is not needed today and for the foreseeable future, YVR has just suspended ongoing construction and implementation work of its $9.1 billion, 20-year expansion and improvement project.

The first components of this project include the suspension of the construction of the parkade expansion, new geoexchange and central utilities building, and the major Pier D expansion of the international terminal building.

The terminal building expansion — adding eight new gates and new retail, food, and amenities — was to reach completion in June 2020. That is no longer the case, with construction before the pandemic supporting 2,000 jobs on-site and another 2,000 jobs off-site.

Moreover, most recently, the airport improvement fee (AIF) collected from every passenger raised about $172 million annually for YVR to fund new construction and renovations. But for now, with highly unstable passenger traffic volumes, it can no longer count on the AIF to raise a majority of the funding required for airport improvements.

Source (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-coronavirus-impact)

VancouverOfTheFuture
May 14, 2020, 3:32 AM
i cant believe they even stopped const. with it being done in June. it must be like 98% complete at this point. why not just finish it? it really cant be that much of a cost savings, can it?

Waders
May 14, 2020, 5:47 AM
i cant believe they even stopped const. with it being done in June. it must be like 98% complete at this point. why not just finish it? it really cant be that much of a cost savings, can it?

Just 3 more months of construction before completion. Photo of Pier D Terminal on March 2, 2020.
https://i.cbc.ca/1.5483232.1583197625!/cumulusImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/yvr-construction.jpg

Source (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/yvr-predicts-a-decline-of-up-to-1-3m-travellers-in-2020-amid-coronavirus-spread-1.5483227)

s211
May 14, 2020, 2:33 PM
i cant believe they even stopped const. with it being done in June. it must be like 98% complete at this point. why not just finish it? it really cant be that much of a cost savings, can it?

Cashflow management, I'd hazard.

deasine
May 14, 2020, 4:54 PM
Off memory, I understand that the decision to stop construction was for Health and Safety and not initially for cashflow. Whether or not now cashflow plays a role now is a different story.

thenoflyzone
May 14, 2020, 10:33 PM
Interesting, considering Quebec - and Montreal in particular - is the hardest hit region in the country ref. COVID, and yet most major projects at YUL are slowly resuming. REM, Runway 06L/24R reconstruction, and new P4 parking. The only project on hold is the departure ramp reconstruction and the extension of the multi-level car park.

To be fair though, REM isn't an ADM project per se.

So for YVR to discontinue a project that is over 90% complete is odd, to say the least. Aren't they also the first major airport to announce layoffs ? Considering the uptick in all the cargo traffic, it's not like they aren't getting any revenue. Moreso than YUL, anyways.

Has management taken pay cuts before announcing layoffs?

libtard
May 15, 2020, 2:17 AM
Interesting, considering Quebec - and Montreal in particular - is the hardest hit region in the country ref. COVID, and yet most major projects at YUL are slowly resuming. REM, Runway 06L/24R reconstruction, and new P4 parking. The only project on hold is the departure ramp reconstruction and the extension of the multi-level car park.

To be fair though, REM isn't an ADM project per se.

So for YVR to discontinue a project that is over 90% complete is odd, to say the least. Aren't they also the first major airport to announce layoffs ? Considering the uptick in all the cargo traffic, it's not like they aren't getting any revenue. Moreso than YUL, anyways.

Has management taken pay cuts before announcing layoffs?

YVR thought the good times would never end

nname
May 15, 2020, 2:34 AM
Off memory, I understand that the decision to stop construction was for Health and Safety and not initially for cashflow. Whether or not now cashflow plays a role now is a different story.

Probably the same reason why Canada Line underground station were all built with 50m platform, but some station only have 40m opened. To save in operating cost?

Layoff is also for reducing operating cost?

But then once the terminal expansion is really needed, it wouldn't take long to just finish it off and can be put in service almost immediately?

trofirhen
May 15, 2020, 4:53 AM
YVR thought the good times would never end
Yes, true, and ending they are. That said, a parallel affliction awaits airports the world over. Although the impact will vary from airport to airport, nobody is escaping this unscathed.

Marshal
May 15, 2020, 8:10 AM
Sure you can
Plenty of my projects are being out on hold
There’s always language in any contract that protects at least one or more parties. Usually the end user with a fair payout to the general contractor for costs incurred to put the project on hold

Yes. Typical and standard in the industry. There are always 'outs' balanced with compensations, penalties, etc.. In all proper contracts and contract law, there are accommodations for major disruptions beyond a party's control in which there is a legal/financial remedy, or the application of a judicial suspension, potentially even without compensation. Contracts must always benefit both parties. If conditions resulting from extra contractual events cause one party to lose its ability (without fault) to fulfill its responsibilities, or a party loses the possibility of providing fair compensation, the contract can be nullified.

Hopefully that's clear, because it can get incredibly muddier than that.

Johnny Aussie
May 16, 2020, 7:18 AM
Another busy night... Currently 17 intl heavies to/from YVR.

Another QR on its way. MU operating two flights today one to SHE (77W) and one to PVG (332). HU also operating two to PEK and PVG again (becoming quite common), CZ operating both ways to/from CAN. AC has five incl HKG, PVG, SYD and LHR. CI and NH also on their way back to their home bases... etc.
Throw in JL, CX, MF and BR all in the air now... YVR still seeing a lot of variety.

Johnny Aussie
May 16, 2020, 7:04 PM
And now we have 4 Cargojet 763s heading to NRT from YVR. Never seen that many at once on this route.

zahav
May 16, 2020, 8:17 PM
I am pretty sure YVR will want to complete Pier D, it is really close and so many items are already finished off site and waiting to be installed (ie. signage). Being cautious with or cancelling future plans makes sense, or even the parkade. But leaving the Pier D expansion like this seems odd. I work with PCL on lots of projects including this one, so will ask them what's the deal

whatnext
May 16, 2020, 10:49 PM
Just curious, is it true that China’s airlines are allowed to transport pax between China and Canada, yet Air Canada is not?

Hourglass
May 17, 2020, 3:51 AM
Just curious, is it true that China’s airlines are allowed to transport pax between China and Canada, yet Air Canada is not?

Where did you hear that whatnext? Reference Johnny’s post earlier. AC had a flight from PVG.

With mandatory quarantine on both sides, demand is going to be rough both ways. If AC doesn’t need to, they’re probably not going to be flying. No clue about the Chinese carriers. The situation is brutal for airlines. I was stuck in Singapore trying to get to Hong Kong in April, and SQ had 2 passenger flights scheduled. In a one month period.

Johnny Aussie
May 17, 2020, 4:48 AM
Where did you hear that whatnext? Reference Johnny’s post earlier. AC had a flight from PVG.

With mandatory quarantine on both sides, demand is going to be rough both ways. If AC doesn’t need to, they’re probably not going to be flying. No clue about the Chinese carriers. The situation is brutal for airlines. I was stuck in Singapore trying to get to Hong Kong in April, and SQ had 2 passenger flights scheduled. In a one month period.

The only problem is most flights aren’t carrying passengers at the moment. It’s impossible to tell unless you go to booking engines and see which flights are accepting bookings. If a flight is sold out though it may not show up anyway. Most of AC’s transpacific flights are cargo only. Some HKG and ICN flights are carrying passengers though. Those with the normal flight numbers.
And despite what is being forecast for flight resumptions, most continue to be pushed out further. Some routes have already been pushed out for months but some are scheduled to commence earlier. However, the reality won’t be known until almost the week before flight. Example is what is “published” in Airlineroute.net... despite their attempt at publishing future schedules the reality is usually much different. Why I’m not posting these updates... so much uncertainty still.
Look what Westjet has been doing...

Hourglass
May 17, 2020, 6:07 AM
The only problem is most flights aren’t carrying passengers at the moment. It’s impossible to tell unless you go to booking engines and see which flights are accepting bookings. If a flight is sold out though it may not show up anyway. Most of AC’s transpacific flights are cargo only. Some HKG and ICN flights are carrying passengers though. Those with the normal flight numbers.
And despite what is being forecast for flight resumptions, most continue to be pushed out further. Some routes have already been pushed out for months but some are scheduled to commence earlier. However, the reality won’t be known until almost the week before flight. Example is what is “published” in Airlineroute.net... despite their attempt at publishing future schedules the reality is usually much different. Why I’m not posting these updates... so much uncertainty still.
Look what Westjet has been doing...

Yes, great point.

There seem to be some signs of life in forward planning as early as next month, but it will depend on how and when markets open back up. No one wants to fly and spend 14 days in quarantine and then fly back and spend another 14 days in isolation.

Isn’t there discussion going on about setting up a “safe” travel corridor between Australia & NZ right now?

Johnny Aussie
May 17, 2020, 6:13 AM
Yes, great point.

There seem to be some signs of life in forward planning as early as next month, but it will depend on how and when markets open back up. No one wants to fly and spend 14 days in quarantine and then fly back and spend another 14 days in isolation.

Isn’t there discussion going on about setting up a “safe” travel corridor between Australia & NZ right now?

Yes there is. However, that would be months away. A lot of variables involved.

nname
May 17, 2020, 7:02 AM
Just curious, is it true that China’s airlines are allowed to transport pax between China and Canada, yet Air Canada is not?

True.

And the reason is that, China only allow any airline to operate 1x weekly flight for 1 route per country, out of all routes they operated back in March. Since Air Canada did not operate any route in March, they are not allowed for passenger flight at the moment.

Similarly, Beijing Capital airlines does not operate to Canada during March, so they have no passenger right at this moment.

However, there is no limit for cargo flight up to the frequency limit defined in the bilateral (was it something like 67x weekly?)


Another busy night... Currently 17 intl heavies to/from YVR.

Another QR on its way. MU operating two flights today one to SHE (77W) and one to PVG (332). HU also operating two to PEK and PVG again (becoming quite common), CZ operating both ways to/from CAN. AC has five incl HKG, PVG, SYD and LHR. CI and NH also on their way back to their home bases... etc.
Throw in JL, CX, MF and BR all in the air now... YVR still seeing a lot of variety.

That one is actually a repatriation flight.

MU7054 YVR-SHE

There will be quite a few repatriation flights all over the world back to China from now until at least the end of the month, mainly due to the scarcity of seats due to the imposed limit...

Johnny Aussie
May 17, 2020, 10:30 AM
Xiamen, China Southern and Hainan have definitely been exceeding their allotted limits. Perhaps they are making weekly deals and transferring them between routes. In any event certainly makes for some interesting FR24 viewing.

nname
May 21, 2020, 5:22 PM
Current AC long-haul plan out of YVR:

HKG - 4x/5x weekly June/July
PVG - 1x weekly June, daily July
ICN - 5x weekly June, daily July
NRT - 4x weekly June, daily July
PEK - daily starting July 1
DEL - restart Aug 1
KIX - full summer suspension
TPE - full summer+winter suspension

SYD - restart Sept 1
BNE - full summer suspension
MEL - full summer suspension

LHR - 4x weekly June, daily July
FRA - 3x weekly July
ZRH - restart Aug 1
DUB - full summer suspension
CDG - full summer suspension

MEX - restart Aug 1
PVR - restart Sept 12


US Routes:
Restart May 22: LAX, SFO
Restart June 22: SEA
Restart July 1: DEN, HNL, LAS
Restart Aug 1: EWR, PHX, PDX, SAN
Restart Sept 8: ORD, DFW, OGG, SMF, SJC

Although not mentioned, SNA is still scheduled to launch on Sept 8 for now.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2020/china-travel.html

s211
May 21, 2020, 6:24 PM
Current AC long-haul plan out of YVR:

US Routes:
Restart May 22: LAX, SFO
Restart June 22: SEA
Restart July 1: DEN, HNL, LAS
Restart Aug 1: EWR, PHX, PDX, SAN
Restart Sept 8: ORD, DFW, OGG, SMF, SJC

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2020/china-travel.html

Admittedly, I know little about the airline business, and yet it's interesting to see some major US hubs not being served until September. Hopefully some of the US carriers might pick up the gap in the interim? :shrug:

nname
May 21, 2020, 7:31 PM
Admittedly, I know little about the airline business, and yet it's interesting to see some major US hubs not being served until September. Hopefully some of the US carriers might pick up the gap in the interim? :shrug:

Connect at YYZ or YUL.

For ORD and DFW, the route restarts first in YYZ, then YUL then YVR

Similarly, for LAX and SFO, the route restarts first in YVR, then YYZ, then YUL, then YYC

AC figured there probably won't be any meaningful load if they restart the route from all there hubs at once.

s211
May 21, 2020, 10:32 PM
Connect at YYZ or YUL.

For ORD and DFW, the route restarts first in YYZ, then YUL then YVR

Similarly, for LAX and SFO, the route restarts first in YVR, then YYZ, then YUL, then YYC

AC figured there probably won't be any meaningful load if they restart the route from all there hubs at once.

Or fly with another airline! That's hilarious if one from Vancouver wanted to go somewhere in the US that's in a Central or Mountain time zone; the world does not revolve around Toronto (or Montreal for that matter). And I won't connect through Calgary either. I like my old direct and non-stop flights! :cool:

nname
May 21, 2020, 10:57 PM
Or fly with another airline! That's hilarious if one from Vancouver wanted to go somewhere in the US that's in a Central or Mountain time zone; the world does not revolve around Toronto (or Montreal for that matter). And I won't connect through Calgary either. I like my old direct and non-stop flights! :cool:

UA should be resuming YVR-ORD soon (and code-share with AC)

For DFW... try AA? Seems like DFW on AC is one of the worse performing transborder route... always the first one to get suspended.

VancouverOfTheFuture
May 22, 2020, 12:10 AM
i notice they are still building the fuel supply line along the freeway. they seem to be around Bridgeport now. i guess that project wasn't cancelled? it doesn't seem like it would be very necessary anymore though now that there are barely any flights.

Johnny Aussie
May 22, 2020, 4:35 AM
Just remember nothing is normal right now. I expect more changes/suspensions/cancellations. There doesn’t really appear to be any sort of end of the line yet.

Nites
May 22, 2020, 4:47 AM
Right now the only direct flights to US airports are SEA, SFO, LAX, and DFW?

WestCoastEcho
May 22, 2020, 8:01 AM
i notice they are still building the fuel supply line along the freeway. they seem to be around Bridgeport now. i guess that project wasn't cancelled? it doesn't seem like it would be very necessary anymore though now that there are barely any flights.

Right now YVR is heavily constrained by their sources of fuel, and how it's delivered, so having the infrastructure to bring it in in greater volumes and more economically will be a plus.

zahav
May 22, 2020, 9:21 PM
I agree with Ac's DFW route, it is probably one of the weaker YVR routes, since DFW is such a fortresss hub for AA and they have had this route exclusive for so long. But for their CRA aircraft it doesn't break the bank either.

The thing with infrastructure projects is that they are way more long term, and look past blips. The airline industry has been in tough times so many often, you can't make all decisions based on the current, you have to really look way ahead. The juel line is a necessary imporvement and will be great for them in the long term, would be extremely shortshighted to pause it.

I also have formal confirmation that the Pier D project is restarting and the plan is to finish it as soon as they can, so it will not be a skeleton for long. Whether it is open for service or not I'm not sure, but the construction will be finished.

hollywoodcory
May 22, 2020, 9:29 PM
Or fly with another airline! That's hilarious if one from Vancouver wanted to go somewhere in the US that's in a Central or Mountain time zone; the world does not revolve around Toronto (or Montreal for that matter). And I won't connect through Calgary either. I like my old direct and non-stop flights! :cool:

You have nothing to worry about on that front. AC has all but abandoned it's YYC hub for the summer. Nothing on the WS front either until late June for now.

WS still has YVR-LAX planned to resume June 26, but subject to change of course.

UA is currently planned to be back in July as far as I can tell.

excel
May 22, 2020, 10:41 PM
This video shows an Air India 777 at YVR on May 19th. It was a repatriation flight from DEL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh6TD31ZLaI

trofirhen
May 22, 2020, 11:20 PM
I notice that TK inaugural flight to Istanbul has been put back to July 16, as is customary given the current crisis. Hopefully that new route will be implemented with no problem.

Denscity
May 22, 2020, 11:28 PM
I agree with Ac's DFW route, it is probably one of the weaker YVR routes, since DFW is such a fortresss hub for AA and they have had this route exclusive for so long. But for their CRA aircraft it doesn't break the bank either.

The thing with infrastructure projects is that they are way more long term, and look past blips. The airline industry has been in tough times so many often, you can't make all decisions based on the current, you have to really look way ahead. The juel line is a necessary imporvement and will be great for them in the long term, would be extremely shortshighted to pause it.

I also have formal confirmation that the Pier D project is restarting and the plan is to finish it as soon as they can, so it will not be a skeleton for long. Whether it is open for service or not I'm not sure, but the construction will be finished.

juel = jet fuel

Ya awesome!

interrobang
May 24, 2020, 7:42 PM
i notice they are still building the fuel supply line along the freeway. they seem to be around Bridgeport now. i guess that project wasn't cancelled? it doesn't seem like it would be very necessary anymore though now that there are barely any flights.

The project has been in the works since the early 2000's, at least that's when I first got wind of it, and received environmental and project approvals in 2013. It's a long term project, and not owned by the airport itself. It's owned and operated by VAFFC, which is a consortium of about 25 different airlines and operators. They essentially work together to ensure their supply of fuel and not duplicate costs between each other. They also own and operate the existing tank farm. Without the fuel line they are bringing in ~2000 fuel trucks every month. Sure, that's definitely down now, but it will return, and no reason to not ensure a supply when it does.

Johnny Aussie
May 25, 2020, 5:17 PM
AI paid another visit... a 77L on its way back to DEL now.

BR now using 77Ws on the TPE route again. They were flying 789s. They had one of their Hello Kitty livery 77Ws in 2 days ago.

HU has been flying 333s and 332s mainly but they’ve started using 789s lately. They are currently flying daily PVG-YVR. In addition they are still flying some PEK flights as well.

Xiamen is currently flying daily XMN-YVR.

AC currently operating a 77W from AKL. Lately AC has been flying AKL-YYZ only.

stiffdeadman
May 31, 2020, 3:47 AM
Don't understand why there would be any resumption of US and international service until the airlines get some idea when Canada and BC are going to lift their respective mandatory 14 day quarantines. Until those are gone, travel outside canada is still pretty much impossible for most people. The way Comrade Trudeau and Horgan are talking those quarantines are never going to be lifted and we will be prisoners inside Canada for the long term.

Johnny Aussie
May 31, 2020, 10:35 AM
First visit by PR in awhile.

PR 8117 now on its way from BGI. Then on to MNL.

Accompanied by some of the usual frequent visitors MU, CA, MF, HU, BR all in the air now along with a couple of AC heavies from NRT and ICN.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 2, 2020, 1:54 AM
KE flew its first flight in awhile for om ICN yesterday. A 333. The normal KE cargo flight was in as well doing the usual GDL-YVR-ICN.

Looks like HU has a 789 flight scheduled to CAN later this evening. Also a second HU 333 to PVG today about to get underway. The first one earlier was the "Hai! MANchester" livery 333.

3U sending its Panda livery 359 again from CTU. Currently on its way.

Both BR and CI from TPE are descending into YVR as I type this. BR back to a 789 for today's flight. CI the normal 359.

Another CX 359 also on its way from HKG.

Meanwhile CZ , MU, NH and W8 all on their way westbound across the Pacific from YVR.

And of course AC has its multiple long haul flights ongoing.

Almost seems normal....

ninjakafi_81
Jun 2, 2020, 3:49 AM
KE flew its first flight in awhile for om ICN yesterday. A 333. The normal KE cargo flight was in as well doing the usual GDL-YVR-ICN.

Looks like HU has a 789 flight scheduled to CAN later this evening. Also a second HU 333 to PVG today about to get underway. The first one earlier was the "Hai! MANchester" livery 333.

3U sending its Panda livery 359 again from CTU. Currently on its way.

Both BR and CI from TPE are descending into YVR as I type this. BR back to a 789 for today's flight. CI the normal 359.

Another CX 359 also on its way from HKG.

Meanwhile CZ , MU, NH and W8 all on their way westbound across the Pacific from YVR.

And of course AC has its multiple long haul flights ongoing.

Almost seems normal....

This is the first time KE has sent the A330 to Vancouver and from what I heard and they will be be rotating between the -200 and -300 variant.

Also Eva will be reverting back to the 789 for the month of June from what I saw online but don't quote me on that.

On another note I was quite surprised to see AC3 to be operated with a 77W as opposed to the 789 that was listen on AC's page and Routes Online.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 2, 2020, 6:51 AM
This is the first time KE has sent the A330 to Vancouver and from what I heard and they will be be rotating between the -200 and -300 variant.

Also Eva will be reverting back to the 789 for the month of June from what I saw online but don't quote me on that.

On another note I was quite surprised to see AC3 to be operated with a 77W as opposed to the 789 that was listen on AC's page and Routes Online.

Yes. That’s what I’ve been saying about routes online and Airlineroute. What’s being published and what’s actually happening are two different things. Whether the flights are passenger or cargo only. Last minute changes and extra sections are happening all the time. Despite some routes being posted as once or twice weekly are actually flying daily or flights operating with equipment “x” are actually being operated with equipment “y.” Too many changes and adjustments occurring weekly to have any definitive schedule to go by.

JL, NH, KE, CA, MU, CA, CZ, MF, CX, CI, BR, QR, 3U, HU, JD, AI, PR, VN have all been recent visitors and many very frequently of course.

CloudInspector
Jun 3, 2020, 12:00 AM
KLM resuming YVR in July :tup:
https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-destinations-to-network/

Johnny Aussie
Jun 3, 2020, 2:16 PM
KLM resuming YVR in July :tup:
https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-destinations-to-network/

They are resuming YYC as well. I tend to trust airline announcements more than third party ones lately.

hollywoodcory
Jun 3, 2020, 6:41 PM
KLM resuming YVR in July :tup:
https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-destinations-to-network/

Resumes 3x weekly on a 787-10 from July 7
Inbound Sunday / Tuesday & Fridays. Outbound Monday / Wednesday and Saturday.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 8, 2020, 3:47 PM
Air Tahiti Nui is back for a few return services on PPT-YVR-CDG-YVR-PPT in June.

TN068 PPT2130 – 0955+1YVR1235+1 – 0705+2CDG 789 09JUN20 / 17JUN20 / 28JUN20
TN067 CDG1235 – 1335YVR1535 – 2220PPT 789 12JUN20 / 20JUN20 / 02JUL20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291688/air-tahiti-nui-june-2020-paris-operational-routing-changes/

trofirhen
Jun 8, 2020, 3:55 PM
Air Tahiti Nui is back for a few return services on PPT-YVR-CDG-YVR-PPT in June.

TN068 PPT2130 – 0955+1YVR1235+1 – 0705+2CDG 789 09JUN20 / 17JUN20 / 28JUN20
TN067 CDG1235 – 1335YVR1535 – 2220PPT 789 12JUN20 / 20JUN20 / 02JUL20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291688/air-tahiti-nui-june-2020-paris-operational-routing-changes/
Has Air Tahiti Nui ever done this route before? It has been mentioned before.
Now, if only temporarily, it has been made manifest. Imagine that this route works out, and coud become a future fixture...

YYCguys
Jun 8, 2020, 8:31 PM
Has Air Tahiti Nui ever done this route before? It has been mentioned before.
Now, if only temporarily, it has been made manifest. Imagine that this route works out, and coud become a future fixture...

I would love it if this became permanent albeit on a seasonal level I’m sure. I don’t care for the LAX connection and would much rather have a YVR connection.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 9, 2020, 4:55 PM
Since I’m on “Canada’s Registration of Canadians Abroad,” I received an email from the Canadian government RE:

“The High Commission of Canada in Wellington is investigating the possibility of a repatriation flight from Auckland to Vancouver in late June or early July. Confirmation of the flight will be based on the level of interest.”

I won’t be taking up that offer but I would be curious to see if this gets enough interest.

Anyway... in flight news CZ flying a 789 on CGO-YVR along with the usual CZ 388 from CAN today.

Vagabond
Jun 9, 2020, 5:47 PM
AI paid another visit... a 77L on its way back to DEL now.

Two more AI VBM flights ex-YVR scheduled for June 19 (23:00) to Delhi and on June 22 (11:00) to Mumbai. According to AI's website, the DEL-bound plane will actually arrive at YVR in the morning on June 18, so it looks like it may be sitting at YVR for nearly two full days. It's not clear when the BOM-bound plane is arriving (no info either from AI or the Indian Govt - see below).

Aircraft isn't specified, but judging from the listed capacity, it looks like both will be on the 77W.

https://mea.gov.in/vande-bharat-mission-list-of-flights.htm (search for Vancouver)

Johnny Aussie
Jun 10, 2020, 9:19 AM
PR flying in another 77W from BGI. The onward flight is showing as heading to CRK instead of MNL.

In addition, NZ sending a 789 from AKL. First NZ flight in a couple of weeks.

KE operating a 332 in SkyTeam livery on today’s flight to YVR.

nname
Jun 10, 2020, 5:16 PM
Air Tahiti Nui is back for a few return services on PPT-YVR-CDG-YVR-PPT in June.

TN068 PPT2130 – 0955+1YVR1235+1 – 0705+2CDG 789 09JUN20 / 17JUN20 / 28JUN20
TN067 CDG1235 – 1335YVR1535 – 2220PPT 789 12JUN20 / 20JUN20 / 02JUL20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291688/air-tahiti-nui-june-2020-paris-operational-routing-changes/

Seems like TN will now operate via YVR until at least mid-July now. Up to 4x weekly.

No traffic right to/from YVR though.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 10, 2020, 7:14 PM
Seems like TN will now operate via YVR until at least mid-July now. Up to 4x weekly.

No traffic right to/from YVR though.

And the first one TN68 arrived from PPT about 2 hours ago. Now taxiing for takeoff to CDG.

KE cargo 77L landing just in front of the KE passenger 332 right now. MU not too far behind those two.

NH 789 today being operated by Air Japan.

CZ 388 wil be heading back to CAN shortly.

casper
Jun 13, 2020, 6:25 PM
Seems like TN will now operate via YVR until at least mid-July now. Up to 4x weekly.

No traffic right to/from YVR though.

Surprised to traffic rights as they are a French airlines operating from/to France at both ends.

thenoflyzone
Jun 13, 2020, 11:55 PM
2h40 min layover eastbound, 2 hour westbound. That is a lot. Seems even though TN isn't selling YVR-CDG/PPT, all passengers still need to apply for an Electornic Travel Authorization in order to transit at YVR. That, and the length of time the plane is on the ground tells me CBSA might have to clear all the passengers while at YVR. That's a bitch.

If it was a simple fuel stop with no pax disembarking, 1h to 1h30 should have been plenty enough.

Service returns to LAX after July 13.

https://www.airtahitinui.com/uk-en/resumption-air-tahiti-nui-commercial-flights

Surprised to traffic rights as they are a French airlines operating from/to France at both ends.

There is literally zero demand from YVR to PPT and almost 0 to CDG right about now.

nname
Jun 14, 2020, 2:35 AM
April Stats:

Domestic: 42,738 (-95.7%)
Transborder: 5,933 (-98.9%)
Asia Pacific: 16,824 (-95.4%)
Europe: 2,182 (-97.8%)
Misc Int'l: 1,053 (-99.0%)

Total Int'l: 25,992 (-97.6%)

Total: 68,730 (-96.7%)

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2020/04-april/traffic-update.pdf


Interesting fact that, for the entire month, there were only 70 passengers who used the South Terminal.

hollywoodcory
Jun 14, 2020, 4:46 AM
WestJet to fly 2 Transborder routes in July from YVR.

LAX - 4x weekly (From June 26)
LAS - 2x weekly (From July 5)

There might be more but that's all I found so far.

excel
Jun 14, 2020, 5:41 PM
Interesting fact that, for the entire month, there were only 70 passengers who used the South Terminal.

That's bound to happen when Pacific Coastal Airlines ceases operations completely.

Klazu
Jun 14, 2020, 7:14 PM
Why are we still seeing repatriation flights between countries as things have pretty much settled to the new normal? What is driving that demand?

Johnny Aussie
Jun 15, 2020, 11:29 AM
Air Tahiti Nui arrivals...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVxld8J1Cjg

Around 2:02 mark then again around 7:10

Gordon
Jun 17, 2020, 4:03 PM
Will YVR continue to use the the De icing pads as remote stands because there will be 6 Remote gates & only 3 wide body remote stands on the east apron.

The Trans border remote stantds project seem to be progressing well according to the latest Sattelite photo. Mapsbyair.com

YYCguys
Jun 17, 2020, 4:24 PM
That's bound to happen when Pacific Coastal Airlines ceases operations completely.

Is that really happening? Goodness I hope not! BTW, if that does happen, what will become of Westjet’s CPA with PaCo (ie: how would WS manage service into those particular cities or would service simply be cancelled?)?

Denscity
Jun 17, 2020, 6:28 PM
Is that really happening? Goodness I hope not! BTW, if that does happen, what will become of Westjet’s CPA with PaCo (ie: how would WS manage service into those particular cities or would service simply be cancelled?)?

I think that it was just a temporary ceasing. I've heard that they will be returning to Trail BC shortly if not already.

excel
Jun 17, 2020, 8:31 PM
I think that it was just a temporary ceasing. I've heard that they will be returning to Trail BC shortly if not already.

Yes that's correct. To clarify, i didn't mean permanently, just temporarily due to covid.

Denscity
Jun 18, 2020, 5:09 PM
Yes that's correct. To clarify, i didn't mean permanently, just temporarily due to covid.

Ya figured cheers.

Denscity
Jun 18, 2020, 5:44 PM
Vancouver to Cranbrook on Pacific Coastal resumes July 5th.
Other destinations available according to Pacific Coastal:

Campbell River
Comox
Kelowna
Powell River
Tofino
Trail
Victoria
Williams Lake

routesonline mentions Port Hardy as well.

Rogie
Jun 19, 2020, 5:12 AM
I'm dying to know what happened here, anyone have any intel?

A FedEx 767 went off taxiway L west of the intersection of runway 13-31 and ended up on the grass. (https://westernaviationnews.com/2020/06/18/exclusive-photos-fedex-boeing-767-goes-off-taxiway-at-vancouver-international/)

Johnny Aussie
Jun 19, 2020, 8:37 PM
MF operating three flights today.
MU has been operating 77Ws lately.
And the usual other visitors CX, BR, CI, KE, NH, MU, HU, CZ, AC and W8 all in today.
TN back in yesterday from PPT and back from CDG again tomorrow.
PR has been very active through YVR lately.
AI 77W also in today.

thenoflyzone
Jun 20, 2020, 1:53 AM
I'm dying to know what happened here, anyone have any intel?

A FedEx 767 went off taxiway L west of the intersection of runway 13-31 and ended up on the grass. (https://westernaviationnews.com/2020/06/18/exclusive-photos-fedex-boeing-767-goes-off-taxiway-at-vancouver-international/)

Nose wheel steering issue, could be a result of a hard landing.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 20, 2020, 7:49 AM
Air Tahiti Nui has extended the YVR stopovers until the end of July.

Up to 5 x per week. So YVR will see 10 flights per week and some days will have both aircraft on the ground at the same time.

TN068 PPT2350 – 1215+1YVR1415+1 – 0845+2CDG 789 x17
TN067 CDG1205 – 1305YVR1505 – 2150PPT 789 x23

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291934/air-tahiti-nui-july-2020-paris-operations-as-of-18jun20/

whatnext
Jun 20, 2020, 5:07 PM
Air Tahiti Nui has extended the YVR stopovers until the end of July.

Up to 5 x per week. So YVR will see 10 flights per week and some days will have both aircraft on the ground at the same time.

TN068 PPT2350 – 1215+1YVR1415+1 – 0845+2CDG 789 x17
TN067 CDG1205 – 1305YVR1505 – 2150PPT 789 x23

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291934/air-tahiti-nui-july-2020-paris-operations-as-of-18jun20/

Since Tahiti is reopening to tourism July 15, why not sell tickets?

Denscity
Jun 20, 2020, 5:09 PM
Man I bet Montreal wishes that fuel stop was at YUL!

thenoflyzone
Jun 20, 2020, 5:23 PM
Man I bet YVRAA wishes that TN was more than just a fuel stop!

P.S The difference between my statement and yours is that mine is actually true.

micmiko
Jun 20, 2020, 5:43 PM
How much is the AdM receiving in fees for the TN flight? :shrug:

Denscity
Jun 20, 2020, 6:06 PM
Man I bet YVRAA wishes that TN was more than just a fuel stop!

P.S The difference between my statement and yours is that mine is actually true.

Oh come on NoFly. A flight from your hometown airport to a gorgeous French colony? Or a daily Air France A380 from YUL to CDG? You would be dancing in the streets for that announcement and I would be cheering you on.

deasine
Jun 20, 2020, 9:58 PM
Since Tahiti is reopening to tourism July 15, why not sell tickets?

Could be an issue with the lack of bi laterals for fifth freedoms.

thenoflyzone
Jun 21, 2020, 1:03 AM
Could be an issue with the lack of bi laterals for fifth freedoms.

There are no fifth freedom rights on PPT-YVR-CDG. Only 2 countries are involved. France and Canada. French Polynesia is a part of France.

Fifth freedom implies a third country is in the mix.

Oh come on NoFly. A flight from your hometown airport to a gorgeous French colony? Or a daily Air France A380 from YUL to CDG? You would be dancing in the streets for that announcement and I would be cheering you on.

Pretty sure I speak for all Montreal avgeeks when I say that I’ll be glad if we get to see the return of all airlines/destinations we had back in March. I can live without TN or the A380.

Incidentally, YUL got a HiFly A380 a week or two ago. Didn’t even mention it on the Canadian airports page. That’s how unimpressive that plane is for me. It came in from Asia, sat at YUL for at least 3 or 4 days before heading back. That’s how much in demand it is(nt).

Edit: The plane came back to YUL on the 15th, and is still on the ground today, the 21st.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9h-mip

Klazu
Jun 21, 2020, 1:26 AM
Montreal avgeeks? There are more than you?? That's interesting and why are they not hanging out in here as there is nothing interesting happening at YUL and this is clearly the place to experience some interesting aviation happenings.

Nick
Jun 21, 2020, 3:11 AM
That’s how unimpressive that plane is for me..

Don't they all look like yellow pumpkins to you? My workplace has windows! If we ever got an A388 at YYC we'd be pretty impressed. But I don't imagine that happening any time soon.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 21, 2020, 3:47 AM
Don’t feed the troll.

Carry on with YVR news that is actually fairly impressive with all the activity and foreign tails. Passengers or not a very active airport for intl widebodies at the moment.

thenoflyzone
Jun 21, 2020, 3:43 PM
Don't they all look like yellow pumpkins to you? My workplace has windows! If we ever got an A388 at YYC we'd be pretty impressed. But I don't imagine that happening any time soon.

My workplace has windows too now! That’s been the case for 5 years. Transferring to tower was the best decision I ever made. It doesn’t beat the view out of YVR or YYC tower, but it’s still nice.

thenoflyzone
Jun 21, 2020, 3:45 PM
Duplicate post, so might as well write something YVR related.

TK delaying YVR launch to September.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291842/turkish-airlines-delays-vancouver-launch-to-september-2020/

YYCguys
Jun 21, 2020, 8:48 PM
Since Tahiti is reopening to tourism July 15, why not sell tickets?

Could be an issue with the lack of bi laterals for fifth freedoms.

I was able to purchase a ticket to Tahiti from LAX a few years ago. Is there a different agreement between Tahiti/France and Canada vs Tahiti/France and USA?

thenoflyzone
Jun 21, 2020, 10:42 PM
I was able to purchase a ticket to Tahiti from LAX a few years ago. Is there a different agreement between Tahiti/France and Canada vs Tahiti/France and USA?

They are both openskies type agreements.

The difference is LAX demand to PPT far outweights YVR-PPT.

YYCguys
Jun 22, 2020, 1:27 AM
They are both openskies type agreements.

The difference is LAX demand to PPT far outweights YVR-PPT.

Wouldn’t it be lovely if TN or AF picked up/dropped off passengers in YVR maybe once or twice a week and the rest of the week could be LAX?

thenoflyzone
Jun 22, 2020, 6:46 AM
Wouldn’t it be lovely if TN or AF picked up/dropped off passengers in YVR maybe once or twice a week and the rest of the week could be LAX?

Sure. If COVID hadn't happened, that might have made sense. Now in a post COVID world, forget about it, at least for the next little while.

VancouverOfTheFuture
Jun 23, 2020, 12:18 AM
http://images.dailyhive.com/20160908182436/vancouver-international-airport-runway-taxiway.jpg

in response to the North-South Taxiway
http://i.imgur.com/hMNjwg2.jpg
source: YVR

so, with this whole airline travel thing on the back burner for the next few years, does anyone think this North-South taxiway will happen? it would still be beneficial from a few aspects, but without the traffic i don't see it being wanted.

osirisboy
Jun 23, 2020, 2:50 AM
That was a long ways out to begin with

Johnny Aussie
Jun 23, 2020, 8:36 AM
AI is operating its first repat flight to Mumbai instead of Delhi. AI 1114 almost at BOM.

And of course CZ's weekly A380 on its way from CAN as well.

Gordon
Jun 23, 2020, 1:59 PM
is there any new info on Pier F?

Johnny Aussie
Jun 23, 2020, 7:44 PM
MU flew in a 359 from PVG - first in awhile... now heading back to WNZ (Wenzhou). MU has been flying mainly 332s and 77Ws into YVR.

Also CZ has a 789 flight from CGO (Zengzhou) due in shortly.

Av8or
Jun 24, 2020, 9:58 PM
Westjet laying off 3,333 network wide. With some cuts at head office.

What is everyone thinking? Anyone have details on if this is the notice period while small ground handling companies pop up in smaller markets. I was thinking YUL, YCD, YQQ etc.

https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-ann...re-its-future/

Johnny Aussie
Jun 26, 2020, 5:42 AM
PR doing a non-stop flight to Cebu now. PR 5117 doing YVR-CEB

deasine
Jun 30, 2020, 8:02 AM
There are no fifth freedom rights on PPT-YVR-CDG. Only 2 countries are involved. France and Canada. French Polynesia is a part of France.

Fifth freedom implies a third country is in the mix.

I understand your point, but French Polynesia is an Overseas Collective and not an Overseas Department and Region ("Overseas Departments"). This is significant as EU membership applies to Overseas Departments and not Overseas Collectives. (See EU Membership: https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries_en#header_countries_list). This means that the current Canada and European Union bilateral only applies to European Union member states and the European Community of which French Polynesia is not part of, and thus considered a "third state" for the purposes of air freedoms.

As an example, Canada has a provisional air bilateral between Sint Maarten, which is part of the Netherlands but not part of the EU. (See: https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/transport-agreement/sint-maarten)

I understand that the United States and French Polynesia is covered under a separate agreement between France and the United States (http://www.paclii.org/pits/en/treaty_database/2002/1.html). As this stipulated certain overseas French territories, I believe this agreement with an annex in 2002 is still current.

LAX will be the far more reasonable route given (1) higher demand; but also (2) better geographical positioning relative to any Canadian stopover point to serve other North American markets.

thenoflyzone
Jul 1, 2020, 2:51 AM
Saint Pierre and Miquelon is also a french overseas collectivity. They have no bilateral air agreement with Canada, and yet Air Saint Pierre carries passengers between FSP and YUL/YHZ, etc. How could they if they are not part of the EU bilateral and they have no bilateral of their own with Canada?

French Saint Martin is also a French collective, yet is a part of the EU. (The link you provided says so). So there seems to be exceptions to the rule that French collectivities arent a part of the EU.

In the Canada-EU air agreement, Article 1 mentions that all land areas (mainland and islands) of the countries involved are covered by the agreement. Nowhere is there mention of French overseas department or collectivity. They just use the word "islands".

All of these points make me 99.9% sure that French Polynesia and Saint Pierre et Miquelon are covered under the Canada-EU bilateral air agreement.

zahav
Jul 1, 2020, 6:04 AM
Air Canada announced a huge network adjustment, namely dropping 30 route pairs, and 8 destinations entirely. All of these are domestic. BC didn't suffer any loss of routes or cities, thankfully. The schedule is still a fraction of what it should be normally, but at least no pairings or cities got the chop here. When I worked at the airport, AC said routes such as YVR-YXT and other regional ones were very strong for them.

Atlantic Canada got nailed, with a huge part of the cuts. As did Quebec and to a less extent, Ontario.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-06-30-Air-Canada-Discontinues-Service-on-30-Domestic-Regional-Routes-and-Closes-Eight-Stations-in-Canada

deasine
Jul 2, 2020, 7:16 AM
Saint Pierre and Miquelon is also a french overseas collectivity. They have no bilateral air agreement with Canada, and yet Air Saint Pierre carries passengers between FSP and YUL/YHZ, etc. How could they if they are not part of the EU bilateral and they have no bilateral of their own with Canada?

French Saint Martin is also a French collective, yet is a part of the EU. (The link you provided says so). So there seems to be exceptions to the rule that French collectivities arent a part of the EU.

In the Canada-EU air agreement, Article 1 mentions that all land areas (mainland and islands) of the countries involved are covered by the agreement. Nowhere is there mention of French overseas department or collectivity. They just use the word "islands".

All of these points make me 99.9% sure that French Polynesia and Saint Pierre et Miquelon are covered under the Canada-EU bilateral air agreement.

Official Departments are all members of the EU's Outermost Regions, which:

Despite the thousands of kilometres separating them from the European continent, these regions are an integral part of the EU. Therefore, EU law and all the rights and duties associated with EU membership apply to the outermost regions.
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/policy/themes/outermost-regions/#:~:text=The%20European%20Union%20(EU)%20counts,the%20Canary%20Islands%20(Spin).

French Polynesia is considered EU Overseas Countries and Territories (OCT) and per the European Union do not form part of the the EU Territory:

They play an important role as outposts of the EU in the areas where they are located, but do not, however, form part of the EU territory nor of the EU single market.
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/international-partnerships/where-we-work/overseas-countries-and-territories_en

I'll point out again that Aruba (https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=105021) of the Netherlands, which is an OCT, has a separate air service bilateral with Canada.

Now, with regards to Saint Pierre and Miquelon, I believe you may be correct that the Canada-EU bilateral applies here because I don't have evidence that it does not otherwise apply. However, there is some history behind Saint Pierre and Miquelon with the then EEC as this was the only territory status unilaterally changed by the Member State (France) per No. 400/76 (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:C:1976:294:FULL&from=PL). Given that the Treaty of Lisbon, which is the architecture of the formation of the European Union, is based on previous treaties including the Treaty of Rome, I'm not exactly sure if and how the Saint Pierre and Miquelon precedent applies or doesn't apply today. But there has been debate (see works by Ziller). While not an official source, Armand de Mestral (http://www.iee.umontreal.ca/publicationseng_fichiers/DIVERS/Accord-bilat%C3%A9ral.pdf) of McGill wrote an article on the Canada-EU bilateral which states Air Saint Pierre as a designated foreign airline under France (I can't find the primary source for this). Note that Air Tahiti Nui is not listed.

Air Tahiti Nui in 2018 applied for additional bilateral rights to codeshare. The application states that:

Air Tahiti Nui is licensed to operate, through code sharing, a scheduled international service in accordance with the Air Transport Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the French Republic, signed on June 15, 1976, as amended (Agreement).
Source: https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/node/567858

This directly suggests that French Polynesia is not covered under the Canada-EU bilateral but rather by the agreement between France and Canada signed 1976, the status of which is still "in force" by the Government of Canada. Details of the agreement are stated here: https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=100052

Also, Air France successfully applied (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2019-131) to operate "Route 3" between Papeete and Vancouver (per the original 1976 agreement) which provides another evidence suggesting that the Canada-EU bilateral does not extend to all French overseas territories beyond what is recognized as part of the EU.

It seems that should Air Tahiti Nui be permitted to carry passengers both between PPT-CDG, PPT-YVR, and YVR-CDG, additional bilaterals will need to be applied for.

thenoflyzone
Jul 2, 2020, 12:48 PM
This directly suggests that French Polynesia is not covered under the Canada-EU bilateral but rather by the agreement between France and Canada signed 1976, the status of which is still "in force" by the Government of Canada. Details of the agreement are stated here: https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=100052

.

Except that the Canada-EU agreement specifically mentions in Annex 3 that the 1976 agreement between Canada and France is suspended or superseded by this agreement.

This being said, on treaty-accord.gc.ca, the 1976 agreement is mentioned as still being "in force". So could very well be that the government of Canada is keeping that old agreement in force specifically because of French Polynesia. Or it could simply mean its a clerical error and the old agreement is in fact suspended, as the new agreement mentions.

Either way - and more importantly, back to your original comment about 5th freedom flights - whether we assume the new Canada-EU agreement or the old 1976 agreement between Canada and France applies to French Polynesia, they are still both agreements between Canada and France. No third country is involved. So to assume there are 5th freedom issues is false, which is the initial point I was making. Now there might be restrictions in the old agreement preventing TN from continuing from YVR to Paris, but that is not a 5th freedom issue. It's simply a rights issue.

I like your thoroughness though ! Proves how complicated these things really are.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 3, 2020, 8:15 PM
LH had its first flight from/to FRA for the first time in ages yesterday.

TN had two flights from PPT arrive yesterday as well.

AC currently operating a 333 to BFM(?) - Mobile’s downtown airport.

And the sky continues to be full with heavies to / from Asia

ninjakafi_81
Jul 4, 2020, 2:03 AM
On a Discord server a user pointed out that AF is returning to YVR on the 6th and posted a screenshot of the flight number AF74. I took a quick look at AF74 and AF75 on flight radar and came across this.

https://i.imgur.com/R4E8rWv.png?2

https://i.imgur.com/KYnmPqe.png?2

I'm still quite new into aviation but is AF going through with that " Route 3 " and rerouting the PPT flights through YVR ? Or is this some sort of technical glitch.