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Johnny Aussie
Jan 20, 2020, 7:49 AM
Now that Hawaiian are receiving A321Neos, the economics might be right for them to serve YVR in the future.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see that happen at all. And yet another option for YVR-Australia.

nname
Jan 21, 2020, 8:57 AM
When are we likely to see the first A220s at yvr?

June 1, 2020


AC 309 YUL 17:10 - 19:40 YVR 223 D
AC 314 YVR 23:20 - 07:12+1 YUL 223 D


That's a long time for it to sit at YVR by AC standard?

thenoflyzone
Jan 21, 2020, 2:15 PM
June 1, 2020


AC 309 YUL 17:10 - 19:40 YVR 223 D
AC 314 YVR 23:20 - 07:12+1 YUL 223 D


That's a long time for it to sit at YVR by AC standard?

In order to meet 7am curfew at YUL.

SpongeG
Jan 21, 2020, 9:35 PM
Seattle airport upgrades put YVR in crosshairs

Sea-Tac’s new US$968m passenger handling facility targets international business
By Glen Korstrom | January 21, 2020

https://biv.com/sites/default/files/styles/media_image/public/2020-01/sea-tacrendering.jpg?h=7b210d8e&itok=HtxQQYrS
The Seattle-Tacoma International Airport aims to significantly upgrade its capacity to handle international passengers with the opening later this year of a US$968 million international passenger facility | submitted

The Seattle-Tacoma International Airport’s (SEA) evolution into an international hub and North American gateway is posing a challenge to the Vancouver International Airport (YVR) as executives at each airport spend billions of dollars in upgrades to lure passengers and new airlines.

The Port of Seattle is spending US$3.7 billion over five years and intends to spend about US$6 billion within 10 years on its airport. The Vancouver Airport Authority, meanwhile, plans to open an expanded terminal this summer – one of 75 projects over the next 20 years with a combined estimated price tag of $9.1 billion.

...

Singapore Airlines, which stopped flying out of Vancouver in 2009, launched non-stop flights between Seattle and its Southeast Asian base in September. Condor airline and Lufthansa are set to launch flights out of Seattle to Munich by mid-2020 while Cathay Pacific is readying the launch of non-stop flights between Seattle and Hong Kong in March.


Seattle now has 21 international destinations outside Canada and the U.S. That’s fewer than half of the 45 such destinations that have non-stop flights to YVR, but SEA aspires to catch up.

To achieve that, it plans to take advantage of passenger numbers that last year were estimated at 51.5 million, or about double YVR’s roughly 26 million passengers last year.

...

South America could be the tipping point
A game-changing non-stop route for the futures of the Seattle and Vancouver airports would be one to a South American city. That is because neither airport flies non-stop to that continent and the route could connect many cities’ travellers with more efficient connections.

Seattle’s non-stop international flights are to Asia, Europe and the Middle East. Vancouver has flights to Asia, Europe and Oceania (Australia and New Zealand). Turkish Airlines plans to launch non-stop flights between Vancouver and Istanbul, and that route would be the closest one that Vancouver would have to the Middle East. The Canadian government, however, has yet to agree to necessary changes in an international air agreement that would enable the flights.

Having a non-stop flight to a city in South America could lure new airlines that want to link their passengers with that route, thereby providing momentum for future growth.

Were an airline to launch a South American route from either Seattle or Vancouver, it would be unlikely to then launch a similar route from the other airport, Korenic said.

Vancouver Airport Authority CEO Craig Richmond has for years lobbied the Canadian government to expand a transit-without-visa program to allow more people to be able to fly via Vancouver on the way to third countries – at times thinking that the change would be imminent.

...

https://biv.com/article/2020/01/seattle-airport-upgrades-put-yvr-crosshairs?fbclid=IwAR1WS966nWk3wuvTtUCyn-WXl3f7lAyVFvTxGXrmu_0rs6Zp8eotMRtTd6M

Johnny Aussie
Jan 22, 2020, 12:01 AM
^^

Should keep YVR on its toes!

The author needs to do more homework.. CX started months ago... and Boeing’s HQ no longer in Seattle.

So let's see where the two airports are at YTD 2019:

SEA had 5,261,601 international passengers to the end of November
YVR had 11,652,832 international passengers to the end of October - end of November should be over 12.5 million

So without even knowing YVR's Nov stats SEA is still well under 1/2 of YVR's intl traffic.

Definitely SEA has recently added more flights and destinations and their intl growth is much better than YVR's but to even catch up they would still have to more than double even what they will have by the end of this year despite all the new services.

However in order to do that.... SEA's problem? Despite this $1 billion terminal improvement where they are lacking is the ability for additional intl gates.... something that isn't in the cards. YVR on the other hand is not resting on its laurels and is building more gates and more to come.

Will just have to see what happens!

In fact YYC is catching up to SEA with almost 5 million intl pax through November!

Dominion301
Jan 23, 2020, 4:21 AM
I’m reposting this from the Canadian Aviation thread:

Hi everyone. The Time Air Society of Lethbridge are trying to save one of the F-28s at YXE that have been parked there for over 15 years.

They are about $3,250 shy of their goal, but only have until the end of January to succeed (otherwise it will join all the other YXE F-28s and head off to the scrapper). If you can donate even as little as $20, it would go a long way to preserving a piece of Canadian (and Dutch) aviation history.

Here’s the link to their GoFundMe page: https://www.gofundme.com/f/saving-cftav-fokker-f281000-sn11106

Even if you can’t afford to donate, spread the word.

JiminyCricket II
Jan 23, 2020, 4:35 AM
^^
... and Boeing’s HQ no longer in Seattle.

Boeing Commercial Aircraft - The Boeing Company's largest division - is still HQed in Seattle, and employs north of 70,000 people in the Seattle area. The heart, brain, and muscle of Boeing remains in Seattle, only their wallet got lost in Chicago.

jollyburger
Jan 23, 2020, 5:13 AM
Boeing Commercial Aircraft - The Boeing Company's largest division - is still HQed in Seattle, and employs north of 70,000 people in the Seattle area. The heart, brain, and muscle of Boeing remains in Seattle, only their wallet got lost in Chicago.

Once Boeing shuts down they can use Boeing Field for a new airport :D

Johnny Aussie
Jan 23, 2020, 9:23 AM
Speaking of Boeing and yes HQ is in Chicago (the guy even tagged their ticker code) but of course their biggest division is still in Seattle.

The MAX grounding now expected into mid 2020 at the earliest.

No doubt we will see more reshuffling as schedules are moved to compensate for this prolonged grounding. Imagine another peak summer...

LeftCoaster
Jan 25, 2020, 12:39 AM
3 flights per week from 25 June for 6 weeks. Loaded and selling!

And Air North has kicked off twice weekly seasonal YVR-YZF today.

https://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2020/yvr-celebrates-air-norths-new-seasonal-service-to-yellowknife
Wow they didn't even make an announcement at all, great news though!

LeftCoaster
Jan 25, 2020, 12:43 AM
In my endless quest to understand how on earth WestJet plans to run an intl hub out of YYC, this ended up on Daily Hive today:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-paris-cheap-flights-yvr

YVR-YYC-CDG for $600... can they possibly be making money on these routes?

s211
Jan 25, 2020, 4:31 AM
In my endless quest to understand how on earth WestJet plans to run an intl hub out of YYC, this ended up on Daily Hive today:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-paris-cheap-flights-yvr

YVR-YYC-CDG for $600... can they possibly be making money on these routes?

Ugh. Anything to try and justify Calgary's WS hub status. Why would anyone from Vancouver want to connect through there?

trofirhen
Jan 25, 2020, 4:44 AM
Ugh. Anything to try and justify Calgary's WS hub status. Why would anyone from Vancouver want to connect through there?
I think that the price would be the main draw. A longer flight, yes, but $600 return is difficult to find. Perhaps the market from CCY is such that WS seeks a LF increase.
AS LC noted, it would be hard to make money at that price, but even with the extra weight and thus higher fuel costs (?) plus the extra service per pax, it might offset empty seats.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 25, 2020, 5:16 AM
Not massive additions but interesting ones...

This summer AC will fly 4 daily to both YQR and YXE.
Also... 4N increasing YVR-YXY to 16 weekly nonstop flights. An additional early afternoon departure on Tuesdays and Wednesdays in the schedules.

casper
Jan 25, 2020, 8:30 AM
I think that the price would be the main draw. A longer flight, yes, but $600 return is difficult to find. Perhaps the market from CCY is such that WS seeks a LF increase.
AS LC noted, it would be hard to make money at that price, but even with the extra weight and thus higher fuel costs (?) plus the extra service per pax, it might offset empty seats.

I have connected through YYC many times. It is not a bad airport. Usually it is when the timing of the direct flight does not work or the direct flight is full or nearly full to the point where the premium for direct is excessive.

CloudInspector
Jan 25, 2020, 5:56 PM
They seem to be targeting connections to fill seats. Last fall I saw a non-stop YYC-CDG for less than $150, so I’m not sure how high the yields are. Personally, I’d rather take AF or AC non-stop from YVR. The new terminal setup in YYC isn’t my favourite so I would try to avoid it myself.

s211
Jan 25, 2020, 7:17 PM
Personally, I’d rather take AF or AC non-stop from YVR.

This. :cheers:

Johnny Aussie
Jan 25, 2020, 9:29 PM
Everyone’s circumstances are different. I’m sure most people would prefer to fly nonstop but to save hundreds many will choose to fly indirect.
I prefer to fly Star Alliance but doesn’t always mean a direct flight.
This conundrum has existed for as Long as I can remember. Ever since the 1980s... people chose to drive to BLI or SEA or fly via there. Flying to Europe sometimes has meant flying via YYC is much cheaper.
Same argument been going on for decades in Edmonton... those who choose to save hundreds will fly indirect versus nonstop.
No doubt WS is depending on copious amounts of transfer pax to fill those big birds. They won’t be making any money on those $600 fares but it would also depend how many seats per flight are allocated to that fare bucket.

WestCoastEcho
Jan 26, 2020, 4:15 AM
Everyone’s circumstances are different. I’m sure most people would prefer to fly nonstop but to save hundreds many will choose to fly indirect.
I prefer to fly Star Alliance but doesn’t always mean a direct flight.
This conundrum has existed for as Long as I can remember. Ever since the 1980s... people chose to drive to BLI or SEA or fly via there. Flying to Europe sometimes has meant flying via YYC is much cheaper.
Same argument been going on for decades in Edmonton... those who choose to save hundreds will fly indirect versus nonstop.
No doubt WS is depending on copious amounts of transfer pax to fill those big birds. They won’t be making any money on those $600 fares but it would also depend how many seats per flight are allocated to that fare bucket.

Looking at the itinerary as pulled directly from WestJet, I can fly YVR-YYC-CDG on March 21 for $352.16 one way in Economy Basic, which means, no free checked bags, no points, no seat assignment, and no changes. Econo fare is $387.16, and EconoFlex is $482.16.

Looks like there is also a pretty lengthy layover in Calgary as well; there is a 24 hour layover in Calgary.

I also saw some other pretty odd itineraries on other dates as well; one went YVR to YYJ, then YYC to CDG.

casper
Jan 26, 2020, 6:28 PM
They seem to be targeting connections to fill seats. Last fall I saw a non-stop YYC-CDG for less than $150, so I’m not sure how high the yields are. Personally, I’d rather take AF or AC non-stop from YVR. The new terminal setup in YYC isn’t my favourite so I would try to avoid it myself.

Depends on timing with your connections on the Paris side. The WS flight leaves Paris in the afternoon, the Air France flight is a late morning departure.

casper
Jan 26, 2020, 6:39 PM
Looking at the itinerary as pulled directly from WestJet, I can fly YVR-YYC-CDG on March 21 for $352.16 one way in Economy Basic, which means, no free checked bags, no points, no seat assignment, and no changes. Econo fare is $387.16, and EconoFlex is $482.16.

Looks like there is also a pretty lengthy layover in Calgary as well; there is a 24 hour layover in Calgary.

I also saw some other pretty odd itineraries on other dates as well; one went YVR to YYJ, then YYC to CDG.

I just did a search for Paris-YYC-YVR April 13. Econ was $390 to $521. Premium was $1,587 or $3,964 and Business was $1,928 or $5,439.

The YVR-YYC-CDG was very similar. Also so the options with the extra hop through Victoria or Edmonton but usually with an extra $100-$200 or so.

I think those prices are reasonable. The low end price are based on booking two months out with no points, baggage, seat selection etc. If you were booking within two weeks I suspect the pricing would be similar to AF or AC.

LeftCoaster
Jan 27, 2020, 7:55 PM
My question isn't why is WS trying to fill their YYC-Europe planes with YVR based pax, that seems obvious.

My question is how is that a sustainable model when they need to offer cut rate prices to entice YVR based passengers to fly via YYC, when they already have service to Paris on 3 different airlines.

They are at a substantial competitive advantage using YYC as a hub unless the O&D there changes drastically.

Just to put their pricing into perspective, for that same week of April 13 YVR-YYC-CDG ranges from $350-$400 for a one stop flight ($330 if you want to stop in Kelowna on the way to Calgary), whereas Air France's direct YVR-CDG is $895-$945.

As a customer it makes sense to fly via YYC if you don't mind the hassle, but Westjets yields are going to be garbage, hitting their corporate profitability. If they took that same frame and put it on a direct YVR-CDG it stands to reason they would increase their yield on that same route.

nname
Jan 27, 2020, 8:19 PM
As a customer it makes sense to fly via YYC if you don't mind the hassle, but Westjets yields are going to be garbage, hitting their corporate profitability. If they took that same frame and put it on a direct YVR-CDG it stands to reason they would increase their yield on that same route.

Then it's even harder to fill the plane!

YVR-YYC-CDG would work if the fare is low enough, but YYC-YVR-CDG would be a much tougher sell.

This is the same reason that I doubt WS will start any Asian route from YYC before YVR. No one wants to backtrack to YYC when there are already numerous (cheap) options available.

Plus... WS's network at YYC is more than twice as large as YVR, which means more connecting traffics to fill the seats.

LeftCoaster
Jan 27, 2020, 8:25 PM
How so? The trash yields are also present on the YYC-CDG direct booking, so the way the flight is currently booking you have trash yields on the direct and trash yields on the connecting pax.

YVR-CDG you keep the same trash connections, but likely need fewer of them because you can capture better yields and more load on the direct, since it's a stronger O&D market.

That is my confusion, how this works long term for WS when there's a complete disadvantage out of YYC right now. There's a reason very few, if any, long haul hubs exist out of small O&D markets.

s211
Jan 27, 2020, 8:31 PM
My question isn't why is WS trying to fill their YYC-Europe planes with YVR based pax, that seems obvious.

My question is how is that a sustainable model when they need to offer cut rate prices to entice YVR based passengers to fly via YYC, when they already have service to Paris on 3 different airlines.

They are at a substantial competitive advantage using YYC as a hub unless the O&D there changes drastically.

Just to put their pricing into perspective, for that same week of April 13 YVR-YYC-CDG ranges from $350-$400 for a one stop flight ($330 if you want to stop in Kelowna on the way to Calgary), whereas Air France's direct YVR-CDG is $895-$945.

As a customer it makes sense to fly via YYC if you don't mind the hassle, but Westjets yields are going to be garbage, hitting their corporate profitability. If they took that same frame and put it on a direct YVR-CDG it stands to reason they would increase their yield on that same route.

Maybe Westjet's entire model for this flight was predicated upon an Albertan economy that is now insufficient to drive enough Alberta traffic onto the Paris flight to make it work?

YYCspotter
Jan 27, 2020, 8:46 PM
My question isn't why is WS trying to fill their YYC-Europe planes with YVR based pax, that seems obvious.

My question is how is that a sustainable model when they need to offer cut rate prices to entice YVR based passengers to fly via YYC, when they already have service to Paris on 3 different airlines.

They are at a substantial competitive advantage using YYC as a hub unless the O&D there changes drastically.

Just to put their pricing into perspective, for that same week of April 13 YVR-YYC-CDG ranges from $350-$400 for a one stop flight ($330 if you want to stop in Kelowna on the way to Calgary), whereas Air France's direct YVR-CDG is $895-$945.

As a customer it makes sense to fly via YYC if you don't mind the hassle, but Westjets yields are going to be garbage, hitting their corporate profitability. If they took that same frame and put it on a direct YVR-CDG it stands to reason they would increase their yield on that same route.

The prices you listed are for one-way flights. Most people who travel to Europe are booking round trips flight where WS pricing is often more expensive on YVR-YYC-CDG than the direct flights from AC or AF.

nname
Jan 27, 2020, 8:51 PM
How so? The trash yields are also present on the YYC-CDG direct booking, so the way the flight is currently booking you have trash yields on the direct and trash yields on the connecting pax.

YVR-CDG you keep the same trash connections, but likely need fewer of them because you can capture better yields and more load on the direct, since it's a stronger O&D market.

That is my confusion, how this works long term for WS when there's a complete disadvantage out of YYC right now. There's a reason very few, if any, long haul hubs exist out of small O&D markets.

Maybe a whole plane of low fare passenger generates a similar yield as a plane with a plane with some high-fare passengers and many empty seats?

Maybe the cheap economy fares are supported by higher-paying business fare?

Maybe the connecting passengers help fill up some seats from the regional plane that would otherwise be empty? Every extra seat got filled in their network would be a benefit for WS.

Maybe it's cheaper for WS to operating out of YYC due to subsidy of any type? (ie. cheaper landing and terminal fee?)

Or maybe WS is just eating the loss for now in order to build up their fortress hub at YYC and hope there will be enough demand in the future to increase their yield?

LeftCoaster
Jan 27, 2020, 9:16 PM
The prices you listed are for one-way flights. Most people who travel to Europe are booking round trips flight where WS pricing is often more expensive on YVR-YYC-CDG than the direct flights from AC or AF.

That is possible, though two one way tickets on WS through YYC are still cheaper than a single one way on AF. ($350-400*2 vs 1*$895). Could be possible though given how strangely some airlines price their tickets, especially one way fare buckets. Looking at that same week Westjet is cheaper than AF round trip, and interestingly enough AC through YUL is the cheapest and a round trip is $200 cheaper than a one way. Ridiculous.

Westjet clearly believes in the YYC hub and they know a lot more about aviation than I do, it just seems like a tough proposition to launch a hub from an airport like YYC with low O&D.

LeftCoaster
Jan 27, 2020, 9:20 PM
Maybe a whole plane of low fare passenger generates a similar yield as a plane with a plane with some high-fare passengers and many empty seats?

Maybe the cheap economy fares are supported by higher-paying business fare?

Maybe the connecting passengers help fill up some seats from the regional plane that would otherwise be empty? Every extra seat got filled in their network would be a benefit for WS.

Maybe it's cheaper for WS to operating out of YYC due to subsidy of any type? (ie. cheaper landing and terminal fee?)

Or maybe WS is just eating the loss for now in order to build up their fortress hub at YYC and hope there will be enough demand in the future to increase their yield?

I'm sure all these factors apply to Westjet, but these factors also apply to all airlines at all hubs and what should really form the foundation for a hub, O&D, is limited.

In reality only time will tell if the YYC long haul hub can work or not.

nname
Jan 28, 2020, 11:46 AM
Last week, AC shortened the seasonal YVR-BOS route by moving the start date back to Jun 20. In this week's update, the route got extended by moving the end date back to Oct 12.

On the other hand, AC extend the seasonal YVR-ANC service by 1 day from Sept 17 to 18, where it drop from 2x daily to nothing.

AC now gradually removing MAX from schedule until the end of June. YVR-HNL/OGG will once again operated by 789 for the month of May and June, operating 4x/3x weekly.

YVR-CUN is now suspended for the month of May.

casper
Jan 30, 2020, 7:00 AM
So with Air Canada suspending all flight to mainline China that may free up some aircraft to reduce the pressure on their fleet. I suspect it will take a year or two after the virus is under control before traffic recovers.

That also leaves the foreign airlines as the only ones flying between Vancouver and China for the next month or two. As this increases I suspect the constraints on how YVR handles the flight will also increase.

Toronto has the infield terminal that could be allocated to flights to/from impacted countries. YVR does not have a separate building and what from an air circulation perspective is a very open terminal. Any thoughts on how this will evolve?

thenoflyzone
Jan 30, 2020, 8:08 PM
Toronto has the infield terminal that could be allocated to flights to/from impacted countries. YVR does not have a separate building and what from an air circulation perspective is a very open terminal. Any thoughts on how this will evolve?

There is no point in using the IFT at YYZ when you still need to bus the inbound Chinese pax to customs, where they can mix and mingle with other international passengers.

If this thing escalates, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Canada ban all non stop flights from China. Israel did it. That would severely impact YVR intl numbers. Even without that move, the intl numbers will be impacted this year.

Almost all foreign airlines are cancelling flights to China for a month or two. So connecting via Europe or the US to Canada will become difficult as well.

casper
Jan 30, 2020, 10:37 PM
There is no point in using the IFT at YYZ when you still need to bus the inbound Chinese pax to customs, where they can mix and mingle with other international passengers.

If this thing escalates, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Canada ban all non stop flights from China. Israel did it. That would severely impact YVR intl numbers. Even without that move, the intl numbers will be impacted this year.

Almost all foreign airlines are cancelling flights to China for a month or two. So connecting via Europe or the US to Canada will become difficult as well.

With the IFT they can setup a secure medical screening area for passengers before they get taken over to customs. I could be wrong, but I don't think YVR has any gates that could be setup in a similar way.

Obviously they are screening people before they get onto the flight. Screening them again 10-13 hours later when they get off would make sense.

Until the outbreak is fully controlled, my guess (and just a guess) we would likely end up with a small number of airports in the world that can accept flights from China. These do a second screening before letting the passengers continue on.

The US used the international terminal in Anchorage for that purpose. A separate terminal building only normally used during the summer.

thenoflyzone
Jan 30, 2020, 11:32 PM
With the IFT they can setup a secure medical screening area for passengers before they get taken over to customs. I could be wrong, but I don't think YVR has any gates that could be setup in a similar way.

Obviously they are screening people before they get onto the flight. Screening them again 10-13 hours later when they get off would make sense.

Until the outbreak is fully controlled, my guess (and just a guess) we would likely end up with a small number of airports in the world that can accept flights from China. These do a second screening before letting the passengers continue on.

The US used the international terminal in Anchorage for that purpose. A separate terminal building only normally used during the summer.

The only problem with this particular virus is that the incubation period is long. Up to 14 days. You could very well not show any symptoms at all several days after you land in North America. What then?

connect2source
Jan 31, 2020, 2:49 PM
Anyone know why YVR is delaying it's stats updates? We don't even have November's figures in yet and looks like YVR isn't even posting October any longer, just checked and the August stats are the latest posted.

Is there some re-work going on or are they so bad that YVR is delaying posting?

Seems most other Canadian major airports are posting entire 2019 stats.

https://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/facts-and-stats

SFUVancouver
Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM
It seems like they unintentionally fall behind on making their stats public. I emailed them once and within hours it was posted online. I feel like someone else here must have done the same because I recall something similar happening another time. If one's interested, just email them and I bet we'll be happily surprised.

twoNeurons
Jan 31, 2020, 9:42 PM
Just flew back on an Omni 762 from Hawaii. The outgoing YVR-OGG flight was decent. Good service, and my favored 2-3-2 setup. The return red-eye was HORRIBLE as I somehow ended up choosing row 16, which is right in front of the bathrooms and FREEEZING cold with NO recline.

Seating is tight, but if you're flying in Y, make SURE you get a recline as there is NOT much room in front of your knees.

Here's hoping we can get some CS300s (née A220s) on the YVR-Hawaii route. I'm hoping to try that plane out and really hope that it takes over some key 737 routes over time. That 2+3 seating is SO MUCH better than 3+3 (the worst ever)

casper
Feb 1, 2020, 6:03 PM
Just flew back on an Omni 762 from Hawaii. The outgoing YVR-OGG flight was decent. Good service, and my favored 2-3-2 setup. The return red-eye was HORRIBLE as I somehow ended up choosing row 16, which is right in front of the bathrooms and FREEEZING cold with NO recline.

Seating is tight, but if you're flying in Y, make SURE you get a recline as there is NOT much room in front of your knees.

Here's hoping we can get some CS300s (née A220s) on the YVR-Hawaii route. I'm hoping to try that plane out and really hope that it takes over some key 737 routes over time. That 2+3 seating is SO MUCH better than 3+3 (the worst ever)

Not certain AC is looking at operating their A220 on ETOPS (extended over water) flights.

The fact Hawaii gets whatever aircraft is available and if there is no aircraft available the outsourced aircraft I think it makes it clear where it is on AC priority list.

POCO
Feb 2, 2020, 12:58 AM
Hasn't the A220 also had engine issues? I don't think ETOPS rating for hawaii will be coming any time soon.

thenoflyzone
Feb 2, 2020, 1:06 AM
Hasn't the A220 also had engine issues? I don't think ETOPS rating for hawaii will be coming any time soon.

The A220 was certified for ETOPS180 mins by Transport Canada barely a year ago. If AC so wished, they could deploy the A220 to Hawaii within a few months. Pilot training would be the biggest hurdle. The rest is just maintenance (which AC knows very well) and paperwork.

The engine issues on the Swiss A220s were software related. They were quickly fixed.

jollyburger
Feb 2, 2020, 2:51 AM
The A220 was certified for ETOPS180 mins by Transport Canada barely a year ago. If AC so wished, they could deploy the A220 to Hawaii within a few months. Pilot training would be the biggest hurdle. The rest is just maintenance (which AC knows very well) and paperwork.

The engine issues on the Swiss A220s were software related. They were quickly fixed.

The changes are being released in April and only affected certain Swiss routes because of the altitude.

Neither the A220 plane nor the engine have been grounded but Airbus and Pratt & Whitney have told pilots not to push engines above 95% of their maximum thrust when flying above 29,000 feet - a demanding configuration currently required only by Swiss.

"It's a very strange and very complex issue that occurs at high altitude and high speeds," added Webb, who spoke on the sidelines of an Air Canada AC.TO event in Montreal.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/pratt-whitney-expects-approval-for-gtf-engine-on-a220-jet-in-spring-2020-01-15-0

thenoflyzone
Feb 3, 2020, 10:17 PM
YVR published December and full year 2019 figures.

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2019/12-december/traffic-update.pdf

December 2019: 2,155,151 +4.4%

2019 total: 26,395,820 +1.8%

connect2source
Feb 4, 2020, 12:14 AM
YVR published December and full year 2019 figures.

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2019/12-december/traffic-update.pdf

December 2019: 2,155,151 +4.4%

2019 total: 26,395,820 +1.8%

So up about 460K from 25,936,907 ( 2018 ) not bad considering the MAX debacle and China issues. I do suspect 2020 will be down with the combination of the above factors plus the coronavirus.

twoNeurons
Feb 4, 2020, 1:41 AM
The A220 was certified for ETOPS180 mins by Transport Canada barely a year ago. If AC so wished, they could deploy the A220 to Hawaii within a few months. Pilot training would be the biggest hurdle. The rest is just maintenance (which AC knows very well) and paperwork.

The engine issues on the Swiss A220s were software related. They were quickly fixed.

There's also the thought that Hawaiian may replace a lot of their aging 717s with A220 and start serving flying them as both inter-island routes and long and skinny routes to 2nd-tier cities. I doubt they'd come to YVR given the competition, but you never know.

The A220 is more efficient and has FAR more range than the 717.

jollyburger
Feb 4, 2020, 2:41 AM
There's also the thought that Hawaiian may replace a lot of their aging 717s with A220 and start serving flying them as both inter-island routes and long and skinny routes to 2nd-tier cities. I doubt they'd come to YVR given the competition, but you never know.

The A220 is more efficient and has FAR more range than the 717.

While Hawaiian owns 15 of its 717s outright, five are leased. The airline extended those leases into 2025 at at the end of 2019.

“By extending our 717 leases to the middle of the decade, we are indicating that we are not planning to replace this fleet in the next five years,” Ingram said. It’s the first time the airline has publicly hinted that the end of its 717 era may be in sight.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/hawaiian-boeing-717-fleet/

Johnny Aussie
Feb 4, 2020, 2:58 AM
Surprisingly strong finish to 2020 tbh.

Wouldn't have expected December to be up 4.4%. Strong December for Europe too.

Full year result has every sector up as well.

And international increased to over 13.7 million. For anyone following SEA as well and there seems to be a few.... they finished the year with 5.7 million international pax.

Still by far third busiest intl airport in the west coast of NA.

More intl pax than huge US cities with fortess hubs like ATL, DFW, IAH, BOS, PHL, IAD and not far behind ORD etc... Not bad for a city of only 2.7 million!

Obviously 2020 will be a fascinating year... same here in Australia - so much uncertainty.

thenoflyzone
Feb 4, 2020, 4:46 AM
There's also the thought that Hawaiian may replace a lot of their aging 717s with A220 and start serving flying them as both inter-island routes and long and skinny routes to 2nd-tier cities. I doubt they'd come to YVR given the competition, but you never know.

The A220 is more efficient and has FAR more range than the 717.

Nothing can take the beating of short hop flying - 8 to 10 cycle days- like the MD80, of which the B717 originated.

The B717s at Hawaiian are there to stay for a number of more years. Nothing on the current market can truly replace them. The CEO even says so in that very same article you quoted.



And international increased to over 13.7 million. For anyone following SEA as well and there seems to be a few.... they finished the year with 5.7 million international pax.

It’s not SEA you should watch out for....;)

trofirhen
Feb 4, 2020, 5:29 AM
It’s not SEA you should watch out for....;)

Which begs the question: if not SEA, the which city/ airport? CCY Calgary? ... or another? May we know? Thank you ;)

SpongeG
Feb 4, 2020, 5:43 AM
In another article I read it says 3000 flights a day have been cancelled.


Coronavirus tips jet fuel margins into biggest monthly fall in over a decade
Koustav Samanta

https://www.journalpioneer.com/business/reuters/coronavirus-tips-jet-fuel-margins-into-biggest-monthly-fall-in-over-a-decade-406037/

Hourglass
Feb 4, 2020, 5:57 AM
Which begs the question: if not SEA, the which city/ airport? CCY Calgary? ... or another? May we know? Thank you ;)

C’mon Trof, there’s only one city/airport in thenoflyzone’s world view.. The airport code starts with “Y” and ends with “L”. ;) Better airport than Changi and way ahead of YVR, lol.

In all seriousness though, from a competitive perspective I disagree. Montreal serves a different function for AC as with a different geographic focus. SEA has far more of an overlap simply because of the geography. DL isn’t trying to make SEA a hub for Europe

I’d also expect to see more traffic at YUL simply given the relative size of the population compared to Vancouver.

Either way, I believe Asia growth will rebound after the coronavirus fears have passed. Just like after SARS.

nname
Feb 4, 2020, 6:48 AM
In another article I read it says 3000 flights a day have been cancelled.


Coronavirus tips jet fuel margins into biggest monthly fall in over a decade
Koustav Samanta

https://www.journalpioneer.com/business/reuters/coronavirus-tips-jet-fuel-margins-into-biggest-monthly-fall-in-over-a-decade-406037/

The amount of cuts... just look at Air China's emergency application to US DoT for service reduction for at least 180 days:

Before:
21x weekly PEK-LAX
10x weekly PEK-SFO
14x weekly PEK-JFK
7x weekly PEK-EWR
7x weekly PEK-IAD
5x weekly PEK-IAH
4x weekly SZX-LAX
3x weekly PEK-HNL

After:
4x weekly PEK-LAX-SFO-PEK
3x weekly PEK-JFK-IAD-PEK

See how much that cut is...

And this is only from the Chinese side. Pretty much all foreign carriers had stopped service into China...

Johnny Aussie
Feb 4, 2020, 7:21 AM
It’s global mate. MEL had 66 flights per week to mainland China last week. Effective immediately it’s cut to a handful and most likely just another handful next week.

Who gives a flying shite about YUL in this thread other than one loser (maybe two) poster. A city of over 4 million plus (is it even that high?) it’s too bad that even people you block you have to read the shite they write when people quote them.

YVR’s international passenger count is not comparable.

LeftCoaster
Feb 5, 2020, 12:34 AM
What really interests me about the Wuhan Coronavirus breakout is what happens to other routes.

It's pretty well known that a lot of PAX through China are connecting elsewhere, they're prettymuch the ME3 for the west coast (especially cities like YVR who don't have ME3 service). Will AC and others put more frequencies onto non-china routes, since those passengers will still likely need to travel?

I'm thinking passengers to India, SE Asia, Australia etc... who previously would have connected through China now have limited options.

thenoflyzone
Feb 5, 2020, 1:57 AM
Will AC and others put more frequencies onto non-china routes, since those passengers will still likely need to travel?


For the remainder of the winter schedule (til March 31), probably not. Too short notice. If this thing extends beyond then, maybe they might redeploy those frames elsewhere.

Right now, they will most likely use the downtime of those frames to backfill/upgauge other routes, thus freeing up narrowbodies for some much needed maintenance, which kinda took a backseat since the Max was grounded.

I'm thinking passengers to India, SE Asia, Australia etc... who previously would have connected through China now have limited options.

I wouldn’t call YVR-India/SE Asia/Australia service limited. Plenty of non stop or one stop options that don’t involve China. Besides, are you really worried about a guy who probably payed sub-1000$ to fly YVR-China-Australia? Not me. And certainly not the airlines. He’s not the one helping the airlines make money.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 5, 2020, 10:08 AM
What really interests me about the Wuhan Coronavirus breakout is what happens to other routes.

It's pretty well known that a lot of PAX through China are connecting elsewhere, they're prettymuch the ME3 for the west coast (especially cities like YVR who don't have ME3 service). Will AC and others put more frequencies onto non-china routes, since those passengers will still likely need to travel?

I'm thinking passengers to India, SE Asia, Australia etc... who previously would have connected through China now have limited options.

Depending on what happens next there could be an overall downturn in international travel as people decide to stay home. So many uncertainties must be driving the accountants and route planners crazy trying to figure out what to do in the short/medium/longer terms. Conditions are changing daily.

nname
Feb 5, 2020, 10:33 AM
Chinese carrier service into YVR as of... tonight

CA PEK-YVR Reduce to 7x weekly (from 11x) Apr to Jun 20

MU PVG-YVR Reduce to 9x weekly (from 11x) until Mar 7

CZ CAN-YVR Reduce to 4x weekly (from daily) Apr and May

CZ CAN-YVR-MEX Service terminated immediately, instead of late Mar

MF XMN-YVR Service suspension until Feb 22

JD HGH-TAO-YVR Reduce to 2x weekly (from 3x) Feb 16 to Mar 7

MU NKG-YVR Service suspension until Jun 20

3U CTU-YVR Service suspension Feb 12 to Mar 4

3U CTU-SHE-YVR No change, 1x weekly

HU SZX-YVR No change, 2x weekly (full fare only on Feb and Mar)

CX HKG-YVR-JFK No change, daily service until late March

CX HKG-YVR Reduce to 6x weekly (from 7x) on selected weeks Feb and Mar

HX HKG-YVR 4x weekly until last service Feb 10

Bourkky
Feb 5, 2020, 4:02 PM
Turkish Airlines to start in June:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/289347/turkish-airlines-schedules-vancouver-launch-in-june-2020/

Johnny Aussie
Feb 5, 2020, 5:17 PM
Turkish Airlines to start in June:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/289347/turkish-airlines-schedules-vancouver-launch-in-june-2020/

Excellent news.... the long waiting game since their tiny little blurb “press release” a few month back.

3 x per week as expected on 789s.

whatnext
Feb 5, 2020, 8:01 PM
I see UA has now suspended flights to HK. Wonder if AC will do the same?

TheGreatestX
Feb 6, 2020, 1:11 AM
Cathay will end YVR-JFK on Feb 18 instead of March 28

thenoflyzone
Feb 6, 2020, 1:52 AM
Chinese carrier service into YVR as of... tonight

CA PEK-YVR Reduce to 7x weekly (from 11x) Apr to Jun 20

MU PVG-YVR Reduce to 9x weekly (from 11x) until Mar 7

CZ CAN-YVR Reduce to 4x weekly (from daily) Apr and May

CZ CAN-YVR-MEX Service terminated immediately, instead of late Mar

MF XMN-YVR Service suspension until Feb 22

JD HGH-TAO-YVR Reduce to 2x weekly (from 3x) Feb 16 to Mar 7

MU NKG-YVR Service suspension until Jun 20

3U CTU-YVR Service suspension Feb 12 to Mar 4

3U CTU-SHE-YVR No change, 1x weekly

HU SZX-YVR No change, 2x weekly (full fare only on Feb and Mar)

CX HKG-YVR-JFK No change, daily service until late March

CX HKG-YVR Reduce to 6x weekly (from 7x) on selected weeks Feb and Mar

HX HKG-YVR 4x weekly until last service Feb 10

Yeah....even the extra day in February this year won’t be enough to stop the intl numbers taking a nosedive this month. If they can keep it to single digit drop percentage, I’ll be impressed.

Cathay will end YVR-JFK on Feb 18 instead of March 28

CX has asked 27,000 employees to take unpaid leave in the coming months. Not good. Last time they did that was during the 2008-9 recession.

trofirhen
Feb 6, 2020, 3:03 AM
Turkish Airlines to start in June:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/289347/turkish-airlines-schedules-vancouver-launch-in-june-2020/

Excellent news.... the long waiting game since their tiny little blurb “press release” a few month back.

3 x per week as expected on 789s.
If demand supports it, could Turkish upgrade frequencies to 4x per week or higher? Is flexibility included in Canadian air bilaterals? Thank you for any information about this. :)

Alexcaban
Feb 6, 2020, 6:06 AM
If demand supports it, could Turkish upgrade frequencies to 4x per week or higher? Is flexibility included in Canadian air bilaterals? Thank you for any information about this. :)

I believe they are maxed at frequencies that they can add, and even if they were granted more you’d see YYZ go daily and YUL 5 weekly before they’d add more YVR.

trofirhen
Feb 6, 2020, 6:13 AM
I believe they are maxed at frequencies that they can add, and even if they were granted more you’d see YYZ go daily and YUL 5 weekly before they’d add more YVR.
Yes, your numbers seem totally appropriate. I was just wondering, -and rather doubt it - but since Turkish wanted 5 per day, does that mean that it would be justified to go higher than 3?
That is, is the passenger market in Vancouver which is 60% ~~ as big as Montreal, or ~~ 33 % the Toronto market, maybe even less demographically.
Could IST-YVR 4x / week sustain itself? Might that question there be worthy of consideration? This of course is speculative and hypothetical.

nname
Feb 6, 2020, 7:12 AM
Yes, your numbers seem totally appropriate. I was just wondering, -and rather doubt it - but since Turkish wanted 5 per day, does that mean that it would be justified to go higher than 3?
That is, is the passenger market in Vancouver which is 60% ~~ as big as Montreal, or ~~ 33 % the Toronto market, maybe even less demographically.
Could IST-YVR 4x / week sustain itself? Might that question there be worthy of consideration? This of course is speculative and hypothetical.

They will not allowed to add any more frequency. Period.

If there are more demand than capacity, they can always swap the 789 with 77W. I don't see Canada grant TK any more frequency to any of the destinations for the next while.

osirisboy
Feb 6, 2020, 3:26 PM
They will not allowed to add any more frequency. Period.

If there are more demand than capacity, they can always swap the 789 with 77W. I don't see Canada grant TK any more frequency to any of the destinations for the next while.

If they wanted to couldn't they reduce frequency to Montreal and increase it to Vancouver?

nname
Feb 6, 2020, 5:33 PM
If they wanted to couldn't they reduce frequency to Montreal and increase it to Vancouver?

They can't even do that. Frequency is fixed 6-3-3.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 6, 2020, 10:39 PM
See this as a HUGE stepping stone for YVR as it continues its global reach. 3 per week is a great start.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 6, 2020, 10:40 PM
I believe they are maxed at frequencies that they can add, and even if they were granted more you’d see YYZ go daily and YUL 5 weekly before they’d add more YVR.

Not necessarily as TK publicly stated they wanted 5 per week from YVR. I definitely see YYZ going daily first though.

twoNeurons
Feb 6, 2020, 10:58 PM
TK IS THE BEST news. YVR now has a low Aeroplan surcharge option to Europe!!!

Although availability is strange on TK... with tickets that randomly appear and disappear.

thenoflyzone
Feb 7, 2020, 8:05 AM
Persian community of Vancouver (around 50,000) must be happy. TK is probably the best (and most reliable) option to get to Tehran. This new flight will be filled at over 90% with people heading to Iran/India/Lebanon/Israel, etc.....

As for the updated bilateral, it's safe to say TK isn't getting additional frequency to Canada for quite a while. At 12x weekly now, that is more than enough to serve the little O&D between the two countries, and as Canada tends to negociate their bilaterals based on O&D, its easy to come to the aformentioned conclusion.

mezzanine
Feb 7, 2020, 3:44 PM
Looking forward to TK. For some time I suspect the JV between LH and AC has led to higher prices to Europe if you are flying *A.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 7, 2020, 4:39 PM
Was trying to find a comparable current route from YVR in regards to distance and I found it! YVR-IST and YVR-TPE almost the exact same distance... YVR-IST (5,973 miles) is just 2 miles longer than YVR-TPE (5,971 miles).

twoNeurons
Feb 10, 2020, 7:06 AM
Was trying to find a comparable current route from YVR in regards to distance and I found it! YVR-IST and YVR-TPE almost the exact same distance... YVR-IST (5,973 miles) is just 2 miles longer than YVR-TPE (5,971 miles).

Just wanted to know for fun... or is this to do with redeeming points?

Johnny Aussie
Feb 10, 2020, 10:53 AM
Just wanted to know for fun... or is this to do with redeeming points?

Just for fun really... in my head I was actually thinking "how long will this flight be?" Because it's new territory for YVR it was hard to visualise until I whipped open gcmapper. YVR-IST will be YVR's 12th longest nonstop route.

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2020, 10:48 PM
Just for fun really... in my head I was actually thinking "how long will this flight be?" Because it's new territory for YVR it was hard to visualise until I whipped open gcmapper. YVR-IST will be YVR's 12th longest nonstop route.
May I ask the longest route? Would it be YVR - MELbourne?

TheGreatestX
Feb 11, 2020, 3:17 AM
YVR-MEL will be suspended from May 1-Nov 27

ninjakafi_81
Feb 11, 2020, 4:42 AM
YVR-MEL will be suspended from May 1-Nov 27

I'm quite new to the aviation stuff, but why exactly are they suspending this route for almost 7 months ? Is the demand low ?

whatnext
Feb 11, 2020, 7:07 AM
Just flew back on an Omni 762 from Hawaii. The outgoing YVR-OGG flight was decent. Good service, and my favored 2-3-2 setup. The return red-eye was HORRIBLE as I somehow ended up choosing row 16, which is right in front of the bathrooms and FREEEZING cold with NO recline.

Seating is tight, but if you're flying in Y, make SURE you get a recline as there is NOT much room in front of your knees.

Here's hoping we can get some CS300s (née A220s) on the YVR-Hawaii route. I'm hoping to try that plane out and really hope that it takes over some key 737 routes over time. That 2+3 seating is SO MUCH better than 3+3 (the worst ever)

I can’t see that happening. I recall being on A340 flights from HNL-YVR that we’re weight restricted due to cargo. I doubt the A220 could handle much of that.

jollyburger
Feb 11, 2020, 7:18 AM
I'm quite new to the aviation stuff, but why exactly are they suspending this route for almost 7 months ? Is the demand low ?

Seasonal service when there is higher demand.

thenoflyzone
Feb 11, 2020, 1:44 PM
I'm quite new to the aviation stuff, but why exactly are they suspending this route for almost 7 months ? Is the demand low ?

YVR-MEL was launched as year round service a year and a half ago. Capacity between North America and Australia is at an all time high. This drives down yields. AC has been hinting at overcapacity to Australia in several quarterly earning calls already.

So it comes as no surprise to me that they are cutting MEL to seasonal. It was apparently the weakest route of the 3. Yet another blow to international numbers at YVR this year.

thenoflyzone
Feb 11, 2020, 8:05 PM
I can’t see that happening. I recall being on A340 flights from HNL-YVR that we’re weight restricted due to cargo. I doubt the A220 could handle much of that.

Maybe not on YVR-HNL, since the demand far exceeds what an A220 can provide. That being said, in 5-10 years time, once AC has plenty of frames, YYJ-HNL or YXX-HNL could be ideal routes for the A220. An A340 would be overkill on those two.....;)

zahav
Feb 11, 2020, 11:36 PM
YVR-MEL was launched as year round service a year and a half ago. Capacity between North America and Australia is at an all time high. This drives down yields. AC has been hinting at overcapacity to Australia in several quarterly earning calls already.

So it comes as no surprise to me that they are cutting MEL to seasonal. It was apparently the weakest route of the 3. Yet another blow to international numbers at YVR this year.

It was originally launched as seasonal, then reduced by 1 frequency per week but made year-round, now back to seasonal. Definitely trial and error with figuring out the demand. The equipment pressures are ever present, so all routes are likely under the microscope. This year will be brutal for international, it will just be a question of just how bad

twoNeurons
Feb 12, 2020, 7:33 AM
Maybe not on YVR-HNL, since the demand far exceeds what an A220 can provide. That being said, in 5-10 years time, once AC has plenty of frames, YYJ-HNL or YXX-HNL could be ideal routes for the A220. An A340 would be overkill on those two.....;)

True... or who knows, even something like a direct YVR-ITO (Hilo). And if I recall correctly, the A220 was designed with cargo in mind as cargo is becoming a big part of the airline's business model these days. This is why overhead bins are getting bigger and we're getting charged to check luggage. That space in the hold is becoming more valuable.

nname
Feb 12, 2020, 9:28 PM
Maybe not on YVR-HNL, since the demand far exceeds what an A220 can provide. That being said, in 5-10 years time, once AC has plenty of frames, YYJ-HNL or YXX-HNL could be ideal routes for the A220. An A340 would be overkill on those two.....;)

Maybe they could compete with WS's offering by providing 3x daily 223 instead of 2x daily MAX. After all, they plan to deploy 223 to YVR-LAX/SFO, and the routes are already 6x/4x daily...

Or they could extend the seasonal LIH and KOA to year-round with 223.

YXX-HNL... I don't see how they would put mainline onto the route. If AC ever starts the route, it would most likely be Rouge.

nname
Feb 12, 2020, 10:03 PM
Summer schedule for Flair out of YVR:

F8138 YVR 0945 - 1220 YEG x3
F8139 YEG 1700 - 1735 YVR x3

F8223 YYZ 0630 - 0845 YVR x37
F8224 YVR 0610 - 1340 YYZ D
F8711 YYZ 1430 - 1645 YVR D
F8712 YVR 2255 - 0635+1 YYZ x36

F8825 YVR 1745 - 2010 YYC D
F8826 YYC 2100 - 2130 YVR D

Total 25x weekly

Next summer YVR will be 3rd largest for Flair, behind YYZ (51x) and YYC (27x), but ahead of YEG (22x) and YOW (18x), although YVR is only ranked 5th in term of the number of destinations.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 12, 2020, 11:05 PM
Summer schedule for Flair out of YVR:

F8138 YVR 0945 - 1220 YEG x3
F8139 YEG 1700 - 1735 YVR x3

F8223 YYZ 0630 - 0845 YVR x37
F8224 YVR 0610 - 1340 YYZ D
F8711 YYZ 1430 - 1645 YVR D
F8712 YVR 2255 - 0635+1 YYZ x36

F8825 YVR 1745 - 2010 YYC D
F8826 YYC 2100 - 2130 YVR D

Total 25x weekly

Next summer YVR will be 3rd largest for Flair, behind YYZ (51x) and YYC (27x), but ahead of YEG (22x) and YOW (18x), although YVR is only ranked 5th in term of the number of destinations.

Disappointing about YVR/MEL I only used it once. Should be good for at least permanent seasonal but see how we go.

Wow look at Flair grow! Third largest base huh? Perhaps it’s time to drop the term “hub” altogether or I suppose YYZ is now their huge “hub.”

thenoflyzone
Feb 12, 2020, 11:15 PM
It was originally launched as seasonal, then reduced by 1 frequency per week but made year-round

I didn't count that 2 month "soft launch" back in Dec 2017. Pretty weird to do that. Launch a route for 2 months, end it, and then a few months later, re-launch it year round. Never understood that one back then. In hindsight, i guess it was a sign of the weakness of the route.

nname
Feb 12, 2020, 11:57 PM
Disappointing about YVR/MEL I only used it once. Should be good for at least permanent seasonal but see how we go.

I remember even just a couple month ago, AC still want YVR-MEL to become daily year-round and YVR-AKL year-round, eventually.....

s211
Feb 13, 2020, 12:07 AM
Disappointing about YVR/MEL I only used it once. Should be good for at least permanent seasonal but see how we go.

I've spoken to several people that have traveled that route and they said they had no problem finding empty rows of seats to sleep on.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 13, 2020, 10:38 AM
I remember even just a couple month ago, AC still want YVR-MEL to become daily year-round and YVR-AKL year-round, eventually.....

Things have changed very quickly in the last few months. Our horrific bushfires, the Hong Kong crisis and now the Wuhan Coronavirus crisis. All have affected and will continue to affect Melbourne for who knows how long. We are getting hit from both inbound and outbound factors which are completely out of our control.

thenoflyzone
Feb 13, 2020, 2:22 PM
Well, some interesting news 127 miles south of YVR......

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

American will launch the first service from Seattle (SEA) to Bangalore, India (BLR) beginning October 2020. A new American route from SEA to the global business hub London Heathrow (LHR) will begin flying in March 2021.

Ozabald
Feb 13, 2020, 2:58 PM
Well, some interesting news 127 miles south of YVR......

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx
Truly hope this is not the first step towards Alaska being swallowed up by American; who in its history have acquired past West Coast airlines such as Reno Air and Air Cal and indirectly America West through US Airways. Alaska has carved out a nice niche for itself on the West Coast. It would be a shame to see it lost through American.

twoNeurons
Feb 13, 2020, 4:26 PM
Truly hope this is not the first step towards Alaska being swallowed up by American; who in its history have acquired past West Coast airlines such as Reno Air and Air Cal and indirectly America West through US Airways. Alaska has carved out a nice niche for itself on the West Coast. It would be a shame to see it lost through American.

I'm not sure American is going to swallow up Alaskan. Alaskan is actually a pretty big airline itself. Remember Alaskan owns Virgin America not long ago as well.

This announcement is part of a bigger piece of news that Alaskan is joining OneWorld in 2021. https://loyaltylobby.com/2020/02/13/alaska-airlines-to-join-oneworld-by-summer-2021/

Alaskan already has a partnership with British Airways and this has been rumoured for a while, but it looks like Seattle is going to become and interesting place becoming a strong OneWorld Hub ( Japan Airlines also started flying there from Tokyo ).

I'd be sad if JAL decided to focus all its energies on SEA instead of YVR, but it unfortunately makes more sense than YVR at the moment, unless WJ decides to create a partnership with JAL. JAL runs a 767 into YVR in the off-season and a 787 other times of the year and we already have ANA and AC serving HND,NRT, and KIX. They used to fly a 747 into YVR.

Still have fond memories of that flight.

( This is not a doom n' gloom post... but I DO like the Alaskan points program as it offers considerable value in Business and First class )

connect2source
Feb 13, 2020, 4:41 PM
It's likely YVR will retain it's strong China ties and continue to be a Star Alliance hub, SEA will now be an international gateway for OneWorld and Skyteam, hence JAL will likely strengthen SEA and ANA will strengthen YVR. Btw, it's Alaska Airlines, not 'Alaskan'.

whatnext
Feb 13, 2020, 5:16 PM
Well, some interesting news 127 miles south of YVR......

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Lots of Seattle tech workers for Microsoft and Amazon from India, even with Trump in office.

thenoflyzone
Feb 13, 2020, 5:34 PM
Lots of Seattle tech workers for Microsoft and Amazon from India, even with Trump in office.

Especially at Bangalore. The route makes sense on an O&D level. Alaska will provide the onward feed. Smart strategy by AA, but lets face it, no one was expecting this. Some say it's retaliation for DL building up MIA and their recent tie-up with LATAM in South America.



( This is not a doom n' gloom post... but I DO like the Alaskan points program as it offers considerable value in Business and First class )

Enjoy it while you can. Some believe the benefits of their rewards program will weaken with them joining OneWorld.

https://onemileatatime.com/alaska-airlines-oneworld/

casper
Feb 13, 2020, 5:38 PM
It's likely YVR will retain it's strong China ties and continue to be a Star Alliance hub, SEA will now be an international gateway for OneWorld and Skyteam, hence JAL will likely strengthen SEA and ANA will strengthen YVR. Btw, it's Alaska Airlines, not 'Alaskan'.

YVR will also be a strong Skyteam hub. WestJet involvement with Skyteam airlines continues to grow.

What YVR has going for it is lack of congestion. Connected in SEA last night.
The inbound flight was stuck between runways for 5-10 minutes. Pilot said it was not an issue as our gate still have another aircraft there that could not get out to congestion in the laneway.

YVR is still a more effective airport to work from.

trofirhen
Feb 13, 2020, 8:46 PM
Bangalore is a tech economy (J class) whereas Delhi is the capital and main connection point for all India (VFR traffic). Bangalore is market-specific and part of SEA-TAC's "muscling-up"

Johnny Aussie
Feb 13, 2020, 9:15 PM
Although not YVR related as I realise some love to bring SEA up often but it will be fun watching AA and DL duke it out.
Looks like Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum have chimed in again.
Somebody above alluded to the congestion that SEA is facing:
Their number 1 current huge project is their IAF (Intl Arrivals Facility) - the emphasis here is the “Arrivals” aspect. The facility itself is really an enhanced intl processing facility. A much needed improvement there.
Unfortunately this “expansion” is not delivering any gate capacity. At the moment there are no immediate plans for gate expansion. There is very little room to move for any sort of significant expansion without a serious overhaul of the existing facility or expropriation. In any event there really isn’t a lot of capacity left for either carrier to build up a large intl hub network. Just look at SEA’s Projects page and it’s all about modernisation and enhancements not true “expansions.”
AA’s benefit here is that they have an instant domestic network at their disposal thanks to AS’s huge hub in SEA. DL had to build from scratch. Case in point - DL’s intl network has not gained any additional frequencies in the last couple of years (HKG out KIX in). Also note, other carriers aren’t just standing by... even Star Alliance carriers such as SQ and LH are starting new services. Seattle is a huge market but how big is the pie and how much can each carrier get from that pie?
The discussion about taxiway congestion is also significant. SEA’s three runway layout means that if you land on 34L/16R you have to cross not one but two other active runways. This can create a huge mess when trying to get arriving planes into the gate areas which are all located on the extreme East of the airfield. This is even highlighted in the SEA airport projects page... waiting times for gate space and taxiing congestion. Fun to watch on FR24 as flights arriving get "trapped" between the runways as too many flights are taking off. ATC cannot hold departures long enough to get the arriving planes into the gate areas otherwise the departing flights then get backed up and clog the gate area aprons.
Even LAX which has a 4 runway system at most arriving planes only have to cross one other active runway. Even then arriving flights get stacked up and down the area between the runways then all cross at once in between departing flights.. great fun to watch from the LAX Hilton lounge.
This may also be a step in the direction of AA acquiring AS. There are some who will refuse to believe this could happen but... there have been WAY bigger mergers in the history of US aviation! And once you’re in the same alliance do you need two carriers in the same country? UA/CO comes to mind?

So meanwhile YVR is expanding with additional gates and facilities... Cleary YVR’s is in for a downturn and what’s happening is no reflection on Vancouver as the global events that are affecting worldwide travel is having and will have a significant impact at YVR.