PDA

View Full Version : YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 [149] 150 151 152 153 154 155 156

Prometheus
Nov 30, 2019, 9:31 PM
Has anyone mentioned yet that Craig Richmond has announced his retirement (June 30, 2020)?

https://biv.com/article/2019/11/vancouver-airport-authority-ceo-craig-richmond-retire-mid-2020

Is he retiring from working life altogether? I wonder whether he would make a good mayor of Vancouver, someone who could lead Vancouver out of the psychological logjam it's currently in.

trofirhen
Nov 30, 2019, 10:11 PM
I am rather sorry to see Mr. Richmond leaving. He was so enthusiastic and visionary about YVR, and the airport grew so much under his direction.
Hoping that his successor will have the same proactive stance, enthusiasm, and the same aptitude for public profile as Mr. Richmond did.
I dream of YVR becoming a 5-continent airport, although that seems rather overambitious at the moment. Things may change. I hope they will, at any rate.

Klazu
Dec 1, 2019, 4:43 AM
Saw this from my balcony one morning this week.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/honkong_airlines_a350.jpg

swan_ch
Dec 2, 2019, 6:03 AM
The situation of HX is getting bad to worst, after cancelling long-haul flights and suspending the in-flight entertainment system , the Air Transport Licensing Authority of Hong Kong decided to review HX's license this week (https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1495559-20191202.htm) and it is uncertain if a temporary condition-added license will be issued.

Dec. 7 UPDATE: the ATLA had decided to give HX another chance (https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1496488-20191207.htm) after HNA group, the majority shareholder of HX, promised to pump another 4Bil. Chinese Yuan (https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-12-06/hna-backed-hong-kong-airlines-gets-last-minute-lifeline-sources-say-101491625.html) in order to save HX.

SpongeG
Dec 2, 2019, 8:37 AM
what happens if they have a plane here and are told on dec 7 that they have to cease operations, does the plane get seized here or something?

ilikeredheads
Dec 2, 2019, 9:45 AM
sad to see HX is failing, as I'm not a fan of seeing Cathay having a monopoly in such a big market, even though I prefer Cathay when flying between YVR and HKG.

That being said, I've only flew HX once, between HKG and BKK couple of years ago. Overall, nothing to nitpick other than the fact their gates are in the midfield concourse, so more time is spent walking and taking the people mover to get to the customs.

excel
Dec 2, 2019, 8:27 PM
what happens if they have a plane here and are told on dec 7 that they have to cease operations, does the plane get seized here or something?

The plane would not get seized here. It would get a ferry permit to fly back to HK.

SpongeG
Dec 2, 2019, 8:50 PM
ok. I follow travel page for YVR on facebook and many people have booked with them to get elsewhere and have had their flights canceled and are trying to get rebooked on other flights to their final destination. Lots seem to be getting booked onto EVA.

nname
Dec 3, 2019, 9:45 PM
October 2019

Domestic: 1,041,403 (+1.2%)

Transborder: 473,467 (-2.1%)
Asia Pacific: 358,623 (-0.6%)
Europe: 138,736 (-1.5%)
Misc: 52,482 (-4.3%)
International: 1,023,308 (-1.6%)

Total: 2,064,711 (-0.2%)

Interestingly enough, most of the loss are actually come from international charter, which is down 41.2%. Without the charter, Europe and Misc are up by 2.7% and 0.9%... so what's going on with international charter?

=========

AC had updated schedule last night, which see PEK back to 77W next summer, and FRA back to 789.

thenoflyzone
Dec 3, 2019, 9:58 PM
back to the good ol' days i see.....

First time since Nov 2016 that domestic > international.

Gordon
Dec 4, 2019, 4:30 AM
When are we likely to see the first A220s at yvr?

trofirhen
Dec 4, 2019, 7:23 AM
October 2019

Domestic: 1,041,403 (+1.2%)

Transborder: 473,467 (-2.1%)
Asia Pacific: 358,623 (-0.6%)
Europe: 138,736 (-1.5%)
Misc: 52,482 (-4.3%)
International: 1,023,308 (-1.6%)

Total: 2,064,711 (-0.2%)

Interestingly enough, most of the loss are actually come from international charter, which is down 41.2%. Without the charter, Europe and Misc are up by 2.7% and 0.9%... so what's going on with international charter?

=========

AC had updated schedule last night, which see PEK back to 77W next summer, and FRA back to 789.
This is rather disappointing of course, and I wonder what the underlying scocio-economic reasons could be. Suggestions from more educated minds please?
I'm hoping TK hits no snags and starts on schedule next summer. It might stimulate something. My biggest fear: that SEA-TAC overtake us. They'e growing fast in overseas.

connect2source
Dec 4, 2019, 3:02 PM
October 2019

Domestic: 1,041,403 (+1.2%)

Transborder: 473,467 (-2.1%)
Asia Pacific: 358,623 (-0.6%)
Europe: 138,736 (-1.5%)
Misc: 52,482 (-4.3%)
International: 1,023,308 (-1.6%)

Total: 2,064,711 (-0.2%)

Interestingly enough, most of the loss are actually come from international charter, which is down 41.2%. Without the charter, Europe and Misc are up by 2.7% and 0.9%... so what's going on with international charter?

=========

AC had updated schedule last night, which see PEK back to 77W next summer, and FRA back to 789.

Aside from your logic, I also cite the ongoing MAX dilemma and the situation in HK. These numbers make total sense and not too disappointing, YVR is holding its own against some major political and economic events.

SpongeG
Dec 5, 2019, 4:08 AM
Change is in the Air at YVR: December Construction Update

November 26, 2019 · The YVR Blog team

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/363_yvr_construction_june21_2019.jpg?h=400&w=600&la=en&hash=6A070903B7CD22435115AC511505E70603DBB419

There are several key projects currently taking place that will enhance the airport experience. This is all possible due to our unique operating structure. The multi-year expansion project currently underway will help YVR meet growing passenger demand and better connect British Columbians and local businesses to the world, while improving the airport experience for everyone.

Terminal

Construction is underway in Air Canada’s Domestic Terminal check-in area for the installation of new self-service bag drops. Hoarding has been added around the work area and is expected to be complete in December.

There may be intermittent noise at the Transborder area during daytime hours. This work is being done to improve our processes for transfer passengers.

Construction continues near Transborder check-in to make several enhancements to the area. Work includes replacing the check-in kiosks with the newest model, movement of an HVAC unit, relocating the information counter and some other minor updates.

Beginning December 1, a new holdroom will open in our Transborder terminal for remote stand operations (RSO). The holdroom includes four new bus positions and gate counters. Work is still underway on this project and once complete, it will connect passengers from Level 3 to the Level 2 remote stand operations (RSO) facility. This work includes the addition of new elevators and escalators.

As construction continues on a number of YVR’s new food and beverage and retail options, passengers can expect to see various hoarding around the terminal.

As part of the International Pier D expansion project, various work is taking place. While much of the work is taking place airside, passengers can expect to see hoarding near the end of Pier D. This may include noisy work. Given that there are 24-hour operations in this part of the terminal, YVR understands that this could potentially be disruptive for those with flights at nearby gates. If you are looking for somewhere quiet, you can find seating in the creek area, near the food court.

New exit doors are being installed in the Domestic Terminal post-security, near A-B gates. Hoarding will be in place and work is anticipated to be complete by early December.

In and Around Sea Island

Safety is a top priority at YVR. With a large number of ongoing projects, customers are reminded to follow all signage, traffic delineators and flaggers in the construction areas.

Work continues on an upgrade project to the Arthur Laing Bridge. This work is taking place between Monday and Friday from 9 pm to 5 am and is expected to be complete by the end of December. Lane closures are required in order to facilitate this work. One lane will remain open at all times. For work impacting bike lanes, cyclists are required to share the road with vehicular traffic.

...

http://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/construction/construction-updates/change-is-in-the-air-at-yvr-december-construction-update?fbclid=IwAR356HI79ACbVCtHpSSAW40w0EzyPPW5ukyyZkxLB59fhLUGE-kfn-xKnyM

nname
Dec 7, 2019, 11:46 AM
Beginning December 1, a new holdroom will open in our Transborder terminal for remote stand operations (RSO). The holdroom includes four new bus positions and gate counters. Work is still underway on this project and once complete, it will connect passengers from Level 3 to the Level 2 remote stand operations (RSO) facility. This work includes the addition of new elevators and escalators.

Seems like RSO is already in use.

2 flights will depart from remote gates tomorrow:

WS2056 08:35 D56 Cancun
WS1754 09:45 E85 Orange County


Not sure why though. The gates are not even close to being full...

thenoflyzone
Dec 10, 2019, 3:43 AM
Well it’s not Turkish, or a new destination, but it’s a new airline.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SunCountryAir/status/1204138580400050182

nname
Dec 10, 2019, 3:59 AM
Well it’s not Turkish, or a new destination, but it’s a new airline.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SunCountryAir/status/1204138580400050182

I was just about to post this...

Summer seasonal May 20 to Aug 22

SY993 MSP 0745 - 0924 YVR 36
SY994 YVR 1020 - 1544 MSP 36

zahav
Dec 10, 2019, 4:39 AM
I wonder if it will affect DL's service at all. I still wonder if DL will make JFK fully year round, especially now that CX is stopping in the spring?

nname
Dec 10, 2019, 5:14 AM
I wonder if it will affect DL's service at all. I still wonder if DL will make JFK fully year round, especially now that CX is stopping in the spring?

DL to JFK is already year-round, effective the week after the last CX flight.

Apri to Mid-June is only 5x weekly though.

On a related note, seems like AC will add second daily YVR-EWR next summer with 7M8

Seasonal June 1 - Oct 11 (+1 day for return flight)

AC546 YVR 1355 - 2205 EWR D
AC547 EWR 0630 - 0920 YVR D

Gordon
Dec 11, 2019, 4:44 AM
Air Canada is adding a second daily Non-stop flight n the YvR EWR route this summer departimg at 13:55 on a Max 8

I wonder why The Delta flight to JFK is always a Red Eye

thenoflyzone
Dec 11, 2019, 1:50 PM
Air Canada is adding a second daily Non-stop flight n the YvR EWR route this summer departimg at 13:55 on a Max 8

You're about 24 hours late to the game. nname literally posted this just above your post.

I wonder why The Delta flight to JFK is always a Red Eye

In order to maximize connections at JFK.

DL2579 JFK2132 – 0105+1YVR 739 x23
DL1723 YVR2240 – 0715+1JFK 739 x23

That 1am arrival in YVR is pretty shitty though.

nname
Dec 11, 2019, 8:35 PM
It's similar time compared to the CX flight.

CX865 JFK 2135 - 0045+1 YVR
CX888 YVR 2305 - 0705+1 JFK

DL is obviously looking to replace that flight.


When are we likely to see the first A220s at yvr?

Probably not in a while. AC seems to be deploying the A220 to YUL first, followed by YYZ. The A220 are too small for either YVR-YUL or YVR-YYZ route, so it's unlikely that we will see them soon (they will be first assigned to domestic flight between YUL and YYC, YEG, and YWG I believe).
Late 2020 or sometimes in 2021 I would say, after AC receive enough of them to deploy them to either YVR or YYC.

By the way, the first A220 for AC (C-GROV) just had its maiden flight today.

casper
Dec 12, 2019, 6:34 AM
It's similar time compared to the CX flight.

CX865 JFK 2135 - 0045+1 YVR
CX888 YVR 2305 - 0705+1 JFK

DL is obviously looking to replace that flight.




Probably not in a while. AC seems to be deploying the A220 to YUL first, followed by YYZ. The A220 are too small for either YVR-YUL or YVR-YYZ route, so it's unlikely that we will see them soon (they will be first assigned to domestic flight between YUL and YYC, YEG, and YWG I believe).
Late 2020 or sometimes in 2021 I would say, after AC receive enough of them to deploy them to either YVR or YYC.

By the way, the first A220 for AC (C-GROV) just had its maiden flight today.

In the old DC9 days I remember the mid-day departure to YOW being a DC9 that was did YVR-YWG-YOW. The A220 is idea for these types of routes.

As a side note in economy back then you would get a complimentary hot meal on both legs. Times have changed.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 13, 2019, 7:05 PM
AC’s inaugural to AKL is in the air. AC51 on a 789 is arriving in about 3 hours.

Also QF started its seasonal flights from SYD a couple of days ago.

whatnext
Dec 13, 2019, 7:41 PM
AC’s inaugural to AKL is in the air. AC51 on a 789 is arriving in about 3 hours.

Also QF started its seasonal flights from SYD a couple of days ago.

What a/c is QF using?

Johnny Aussie
Dec 13, 2019, 8:30 PM
What a/c is QF using?

744 3 x per week

LeftCoaster
Dec 14, 2019, 12:20 AM
Pretty sure if I started my own change.org petition, I’d get more than 1500 signatures.

This being said, you are right. It’s not hard proof of anything.

This (https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/16/revealed-almost-34-million-passengers-connect-with-turkish-airlines/) is however. Coupled with the fact that during the last census, Turkish Canadians in Vancouver numbered less than 7,000, means VFR traffic simply isn’t there, which in turn means very little O&D from YVR to IST.

So no VFR means no O&D?

I thought VFR was garbage traffic that no one wanted, now it's proof there's no O&D on a route?

Istanbul/Turkey is a major tourist destination and a decent business centre. A small population of Turks in BC does not mean that no one is flying to Istanbul. Hell I've been there and I'm not even remotely Turkish.

On a related note, seems like AC will add second daily YVR-EWR next summer with 7M8

Seasonal June 1 - Oct 11 (+1 day for return flight)

AC546 YVR 1355 - 2205 EWR D
AC547 EWR 0630 - 0920 YVR D

Ugh, everyone else gets a new destination and we get a bit of lost service back. Whoopee.

I guess the plan is everyone who wants to travel from YVR just walk?

Economic growth - Check
Population growth - Check

... might as well slash capacity like crazy.

I clearly am not understanding how air travel demand works.

nname
Dec 14, 2019, 1:34 AM
Ugh, everyone else gets a new destination and we get a bit of lost service back. Whoopee.

I guess the plan is everyone who wants to travel from YVR just walk?

Economic growth - Check
Population growth - Check

... might as well slash capacity like crazy.

I clearly am not understanding how air travel demand works.

It's not like all other airport gain new destinations without losing something in return...

This is from AC:
YYZ gained SJC by reducing SFO by 1x daily (overall reduction in service due to downguage!)
YYZ gained AC to VIE and BRU by kicking the foreign carrier to YUL (it's gain for YUL though)
YUL gained BOG but loses LIM
YYC gained BOS... but looking at all their losses from the past few years... PSP for one.. the total flight from AC is still much less than 3 years ago

As for WS, it's clear by now that they want to grow their YYC base. They would try to route all their traffic there, and trying to kick AC out. But why would AC need to do anything at YVR when WS is barely doing anything either...?


======================================

And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

LeftCoaster
Dec 14, 2019, 2:43 AM
And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

I sure hope that’s not the case. I booked yvr-sjo on transat in April just last week.

SpongeG
Dec 14, 2019, 8:04 PM
from YVR Facebook

Vancouver International Airport
Yesterday at 10:56 ·
Kia ora! Congratulations to Air Canada on their new non-stop seasonal route from YVR to Auckland, NZ. Last night, we held a special gate celebration event for passengers embarking on the inaugural flight. Flights to New Zealand are available now until March 2020.

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/79100893_2625584887479289_6097770816244547584_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=EsFKjjb0WhsAQlirnPcJROMFnFHiRJxJ0nvzprTGmbSPp5y-kPKTDfBDg&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=1a442452c6006a8d494cc2cec1bd95c2&oe=5E848E95

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/79373633_2625585044145940_329632318991892480_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=4ghpdmU6TlIAQlfgL8VZYo7w16pJH3GExgCP8-rxB6qFhiYGJ22eiWuhA&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=28350ffd13f374f02d025d7dfa4aacba&oe=5E7290AC

Johnny Aussie
Dec 14, 2019, 8:21 PM
And Air Canada’s news release.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019-12-13-Kia-Ora-Auckland-Air-Canada-Inaugurates-Seasonal-Service-From-Vancouver

Yet another option to fly home....

I’m going EVA Air again from SIN via TPE this week.

Alexcaban
Dec 14, 2019, 10:15 PM
It's not like all other airport gain new destinations without losing something in return...

This is from AC:
YYZ gained SJC by reducing SFO by 1x daily (overall reduction in service due to downguage!)
YYZ gained AC to VIE and BRU by kicking the foreign carrier to YUL (it's gain for YUL though)
YUL gained BOG but loses LIM
YYC gained BOS... but looking at all their losses from the past few years... PSP for one.. the total flight from AC is still much less than 3 years ago

As for WS, it's clear by now that they want to grow their YYC base. They would try to route all their traffic there, and trying to kick AC out. But why would AC need to do anything at YVR when WS is barely doing anything either...?


======================================

And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

YUL gains TLS however.

---

Regarding TS to Costa Rica, that can't be right, I find it hard to believe that a destination so hot right now doesn't work from YVR, there are ads everywhere in the skytrain.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 14, 2019, 10:44 PM
And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

Looks like you can’t book SJO or LIR on TS from anywhere in Canada according to the TS website. Glitch perhaps??

thenoflyzone
Dec 16, 2019, 2:29 AM
So no VFR means no O&D?

I thought VFR was garbage traffic that no one wanted, now it's proof there's no O&D on a route?

Istanbul/Turkey is a major tourist destination and a decent business centre. A small population of Turks in BC does not mean that no one is flying to Istanbul. Hell I've been there and I'm not even remotely Turkish.



Ugh, everyone else gets a new destination and we get a bit of lost service back. Whoopee.

I guess the plan is everyone who wants to travel from YVR just walk?

Economic growth - Check
Population growth - Check

... might as well slash capacity like crazy.

I clearly am not understanding how air travel demand works.



Tourism to Turkey plummeted in 2016 due to security and political concerns (those issues still linger today btw), and is barely recovering now. The recovery is mostly from tourists from Russia, Middle East and Asia, not North America.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/destinations/asia/turkey/rise-fall-changing-tourism-industry/

According to Turkey’s Ministry of Culture and Tourism, the total number of foreign visitors entering Turkey plummeted from 36.2 million in 2015 to 25.4 million in 2016—a drop of 30 percent. Tourism from the United States fell more than 40 percent from 2015 to 2017, according to the New York Times, which notes a particular reluctance among Western travelers. But now, after a period of relative calm, tourists are returning. In 2017, the number of foreign visitors had rebounded to 32.4 million, with increased popularity among tourists from Russia, Asia and the Middle East.

Now, as for Vancouver's economy, it's a 1 trick pony: Real estate related to Chinese foreign capital. Economic and population growth is all related to foreign capital from China. Remove that, and Vancouver doesn't have much going for it.

Recent issues between Canada/China, plus the fact that Chinese carriers are maxed out in Canada, and the fact that AC/WS aren't interested or capable of adding more flights to China, all explain why YVR has a lack of new destinations or routes, and why passenger number increases are now lingering behind other Canadian hubs like YUL or YYC.

Pretty sure I've said this before. Like it or not, this is what is happening.

The following article is a good read, and Vancouver's economy can be summed up in a few short lines found in the article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-20/vancouver-is-drowning-in-chinese-money

beyond real estate, Vancouver’s economic base is shallow.It’s not the business capital of western Canada—that’s Calgary—and it has few major corporate headquarters or large-scale manufacturing operations. “Asian capital has kept this economy alive, end of story"

I'm not the only one saying it.

======================================================================================================

It's not like all other airport gain new destinations without losing something in return...

This is from AC:
YYZ gained SJC by reducing SFO by 1x daily (overall reduction in service due to downguage!)
YYZ gained AC to VIE and BRU by kicking the foreign carrier to YUL (it's gain for YUL though)
YUL gained BOG but loses LIM
YYC gained BOS... but looking at all their losses from the past few years... PSP for one.. the total flight from AC is still much less than 3 years ago



?

You're missing quite a lot of YUL destinations there.

AC alone has or will add, on top of BOG....GRU, SEA, BNA, TLS.
TS added MSY and will add CPH and SAN next year.

The only destination in there that YUL already had was TLS.

Even in terms of new airlines, YVR is lagging......

YUL got OS this year, and will get TP and SN next summer.
YVR had no new airlines this year, and will lose HX next year, but gain Sun Country, so no new gains next year either. (still waiting for TK announcement)
YYZ's airline loses are related to AC JV. Not lack of interest.

Total number of destinations:

YYZ: 180+
YUL: 150+
YVR: 119 (several articles say 125, or 126, but yvr.ca 2019 destination pdf shows 119)
YYC: 80

What was it Craig wanted? 144 destinations by 2020....yeah right..

I have to agree with LeftCoaster here. I understand his frustration with the lack of Airline/destination growth at YVR, a situation that is exclusive to Vancouver and cannot be compared to other Canadian airports.

trofirhen
Dec 16, 2019, 3:43 AM
Craig Richmond, about to retire in 2020 I believe, spoke enthusiastically in past years about YVR becoming a connecting hub from Asia to South America.
He spoke at the VBoT with maps showing routes linking cities in Japan and China to LIM, GRU, SCL, GIG and so forth. It was ambitious, exciting, the "raison d'être" for YVR going big time.

Now, I rather doubt that will ever happen. A shame, yes, but even worse for YVR if SEA fills that role, as SEA seems to be on a roll garnering new destinations overseas.
Seattle has not only 4 million metro compared to Vancouver's 2.5, but as everyone knows, is a corporate powerhouse. Good stuff, but I'd hate to see YVR eclipsed by SEA overseas.

As thenoflyzone rightly points out, Vancouver put most of its eggs in one basket, and that was Asian - or more precisely, Chinese - capital, to get things moving.
That needed economic diversification was something the city could not achieve, or would not fight for. A real shame, as the consequences are now painfully obvious, in more ways than one.

red-paladin
Dec 16, 2019, 4:12 AM
:rolleyes:

Marshal
Dec 16, 2019, 8:14 AM
. . . Vancouver's economy, it's a 1 trick pony: Real estate related to Chinese foreign capital. Economic and population growth is all related to foreign capital from China. Remove that, and Vancouver doesn't have much going for it . . .


You are so bang on! I knew it. I've been living here for a decades now and I have always been suspicious.

Nothing happening, everyone just hangin on. Crappy airport, Chinese control, all my neighbours not working because there is no economy. They just sit and wait to skim off a bit of gambling money, or launder some, or just get paid straight from Shanghai. So sad. I hate it here. Nothing to do, no growth, rainy, mouldy . . . just 2,800,000 people living the nightmare. And when you look into it you see why. 200+ tower cranes building nothing. Construction at a standstill. Movie business sucks. 3 or 4 oil refineries - they are just stage sets. Ship building? Zippo! Tourism - weak money. Olympics? Never happened. Massive goods transhipment/shipment network is a fake facade. Retail, banking, law, giant universities . . . all crap. Our office buildings are empty: no head offices. Giant trade port with the US? Not there. Air cargo, like passengers, poorly performing. Major port expansions on a huge port: a fraud. Medical research = nothing. TRIUMPH - so what! "Tech sector is booming," that's a lie. And for us here on Skyscraperpage.com, why do they keep throwing up hundreds of highrises destined to be empty except for maybe a bit of laundered cash in the kitchens. There are no people because there is no economy. It's just such a stupid place.

We got nothin! Just still chopin those trees and diggen in the dirt. What a failure. Why are we all here? Why? The trees? Not me. The ocean? Not me. The views? No way.

I just don't know what to think. We have too many eggs in too many baskets! I'm moving to Sherbrooke.


(post note: trofirhen, Vancouver didn't 'put' most of its eggs in one basket, Vancouver laid what eggs it could.)

Johnny Aussie
Dec 16, 2019, 9:15 AM
Thanks for that commentary Marshal! I may as well just cancel my upcoming trip.

There seems to be a pattern of blocked messages until someone actually quotes.

The rolling eyes under trofirhen probably confirms my good judgment and not having to read rubbish anymore!

Hourglass
Dec 16, 2019, 10:46 AM
You are so bang on! I knew it. I've been living here for a decades now and I have always been suspicious.

Nothing happening, everyone just hangin on. Crappy airport, Chinese control, all my neighbours not working because there is no economy. They just sit and wait to skim off a bit of gambling money, or launder some, or just get paid straight from Shanghai. So sad. I hate it here. Nothing to do, no growth, rainy, mouldy . . . just 2,800,000 people living the nightmare. And when you look into it you see why. 200+ tower cranes building nothing. Construction at a standstill. Movie business sucks. 3 or 4 oil refineries - they are just stage sets. Ship building? Zippo! Tourism - weak money. Olympics? Never happened. Massive goods transhipment/shipment network is a fake facade. Retail, banking, law, giant universities . . . all crap. Our office buildings are empty: no head offices. Giant trade port with the US? Not there. Air cargo, like passengers, poorly performing. Major port expansions on a huge port: a fraud. Medical research = nothing. TRIUMPH - so what! "Tech sector is booming," that's a lie. And for us here on Skyscraperpage.com, why do they keep throwing up hundreds of highrises destined to be empty except for maybe a bit of laundered cash in the kitchens. There are no people because there is no economy. It's just such a stupid place.

We got nothin! Just still chopin those trees and diggen in the dirt. What a failure. Why are we all here? Why? The trees? Not me. The ocean? Not me. The views? No way.

I just don't know what to think. We have too many eggs in too many baskets! I'm moving to Sherbrooke.


(post note: trofirhen, Vancouver didn't 'put' most of its eggs in one basket, Vancouver laid what eggs it could.)

You’re forgetting Amazon. That 1.1 million sq ft they’re taking up in the Post? Fake news. It’s actually going to be condos for rich people from China. ;)

@thenoflyzone - It’s good YUL is growing. For a city with a metro population almost double that of Vancouver, I’ve always thought it weird that YVR serves 66% more passengers per year — or 10 million more passengers. That pony clearly has a lot of legs...

teriyaki
Dec 16, 2019, 10:51 AM
I just learnt for the first time today how to add someone to the ignore list, yeesh. :yuck:

thenoflyzone
Dec 16, 2019, 12:41 PM
@thenoflyzone - It’s good YUL is growing. For a city with a metro population almost double that of Vancouver, I’ve always thought it weird that YVR serves 66% more passengers per year — or 10 million more passengers. That pony clearly has a lot of legs...

1. Comparing city population to airport passenger numbers.....yeah... I haven't heard that one before.

2. Your math is way off....

YTD October, YVR had 29% more passengers. And that difference is all domestic passengers btw...

You are so bang on! I knew it. I've been living here for a decades now and I have always been suspicious.

Nothing happening, everyone just hangin on. Crappy airport, Chinese control, all my neighbours not working because there is no economy. They just sit and wait to skim off a bit of gambling money, or launder some, or just get paid straight from Shanghai. So sad. I hate it here. Nothing to do, no growth, rainy, mouldy . . . just 2,800,000 people living the nightmare. And when you look into it you see why. 200+ tower cranes building nothing. Construction at a standstill. Movie business sucks. 3 or 4 oil refineries - they are just stage sets. Ship building? Zippo! Tourism - weak money. Olympics? Never happened. Massive goods transhipment/shipment network is a fake facade. Retail, banking, law, giant universities . . . all crap. Our office buildings are empty: no head offices. Giant trade port with the US? Not there. Air cargo, like passengers, poorly performing. Major port expansions on a huge port: a fraud. Medical research = nothing. TRIUMPH - so what! "Tech sector is booming," that's a lie. And for us here on Skyscraperpage.com, why do they keep throwing up hundreds of highrises destined to be empty except for maybe a bit of laundered cash in the kitchens. There are no people because there is no economy. It's just such a stupid place.

We got nothin! Just still chopin those trees and diggen in the dirt. What a failure. Why are we all here? Why? The trees? Not me. The ocean? Not me. The views? No way.

I just don't know what to think. We have too many eggs in too many baskets! I'm moving to Sherbrooke.


(post note: trofirhen, Vancouver didn't 'put' most of its eggs in one basket, Vancouver laid what eggs it could.)

And yet, AC chose to add YYC-BOS with a mainline A319, and nothing new out of YVR...hmm

How come no YVR-IAD, or YVR-MIA......Maybe you should write an e-mail to AC and carbon copy exactly what you just wrote.....lol.... Dont forget the trees and the oceans bit. That's the icing on the cake, so to speak !

P.S at least in Sherbrooke, you can buy a home for a decent price without going broke.

I just learnt for the first time today how to add someone to the ignore list, yeesh. :yuck:

You're not the first, and you're probably not going to be the last.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 16, 2019, 6:28 PM
I just learnt for the first time today how to add someone to the ignore list, yeesh. :yuck:

A very handy tool isn’t it. I only have three on mine but it makes a huge difference sometimes such as this page. Just stay logged in.

zahav
Dec 16, 2019, 10:12 PM
I don't mind when people try and pump up Montreal because it has 40 years of sub-par performance to catch up on (negative migration, sub par employment growth, long term airport growth). Meanwhile Vancouver has gone from nothing to world renowned in the time Montreal has gone from the top of the country to a distant 2nd and sometimes 3rd. It has only been a couple years they've had better performance but it's given some people a very entitled attitude to look down on anyone else. Never more so than the foreign buyer question. There have been countless stories of Chinese buyers lining up for new projects in Montreal just because Vancouver and Toronto put foreign buyer limits in, and Montreal wanted the scraps from people who would've preferred Van or TO if they had a choice. But the funniest part is the denial from Montreal boosters who don't see any issue with it happening there, but then call Vancouver a one trick pony, even when it doesn't happen here any more.

LeftCoaster
Dec 17, 2019, 12:53 AM
Now, as for Vancouver's economy, it's a 1 trick pony: Real estate related to Chinese foreign capital. Economic and population growth is all related to foreign capital from China. Remove that, and Vancouver doesn't have much going for it.

Recent issues between Canada/China, plus the fact that Chinese carriers are maxed out in Canada, and the fact that AC/WS aren't interested or capable of adding more flights to China, all explain why YVR has a lack of new destinations or routes, and why passenger number increases are now lingering behind other Canadian hubs like YUL or YYC.

Pretty sure I've said this before. Like it or not, this is what is happening.

The following article is a good read, and Vancouver's economy can be summed up in a few short lines found in the article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-20/vancouver-is-drowning-in-chinese-money


I find you quite knowledgeable (though of course quite biased) about air travel and the industry, but your views on economics clearly leave quite a lot to be desired.

While real estate is of course a large part of Vancouver's economy, as it is with most rapidly growing cities, it is not a one trick pony and is currently undergoing an incredible economic run.

In the last 2 years Vancouver has created over 200,000 jobs. That is unheard of for a city if its size. Montreal, a city of nearly 50% greater population has created about half that in the same time period.

Over the last 4.5 years (2019 Q3/Q4 are not out yet) metro Vancouver has absorbed 6.7 million square feet of office space. Just to put it in relative terms that's over 13 Tour Deloittes in Montreal. That also doesn't count any of the forward looking absorption like the new Apple, Microsoft or Amazon offices set to open over the next 24 months that will add over 2 million more square feet of absorption.

So no, Vancouver is not a one trick pony. It may see that way if you aren't paying attention and only read the headlines, but BC has led Canada in GDP growth rates for 3 years now and looks to continue strong economic growth with tech, LNG infrastructure and finance continuing to lead the way.

So please keep continuing to comment on air related issues, as you know what you're talking about, but don't bother with economic commentary since you don't seem particularly up to speed on what's going on in Vancouver.

Marshal
Dec 17, 2019, 2:02 AM
Don't make serious arguments to defend Vancouver to a brick. Isn't that how trolling behaviour works?

I took my tack because I thought it would be useful to see Vancouver's economy for what it is: varied and complex: the opposite of a single trick. People think that cities dominated by just a few industries are the only cities with strong real economies. Our's is strong without that level of concentration, and unlike Vancouver of old (last century) we have outgrown boom and bust cycles that are true indicators of undiversified economies. This is the goal for cities like Calgary, which is doing a pretty good job of going in the right direction.

Now, like I said: 2,800,000 people out here are just doing nothing. 200,000 jobs are all at the drive thru. We Vancouverites have been warned, we're a disaster.

And to get back on topic:
Stats for 2050:
YVR: stil 25,000,000; cargo, 0; distinations 100 all Chinese
YUL: where it should be, 48,000,000; cargo, 400,000 tons (where YVR is now), destinations 300, including everything YVR has now + 5 in Turkey.

(use that ignore list, keep laughing at ignorance, and help out by moving somewhere with meaningful employment.)

(Oh, I almost forgot: on a visual level: all those photos by McMinsen, Klazu . . . , what a crappy looking place with nothing going on. They should stop posting them. You don't see that many pictures of Cleveland regularly posted, do you?)

Marshal
Dec 17, 2019, 2:17 AM
I promise to shut up soon.

What is Montreal's economy famous for? Nothing in particular, right? That's because it too is quite diverse, and similar in that way to Vancouver. It is also a strength.

I'm from Montreal (long time ago) and I love Montreal. I have no derogation for anything about Montreal. It pains me everytime I type 'Montreal' without the accent. Ya see -nofly-, I love Canada, which means Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg . . . even Ottawa a bit. I always hope YUL does well, and if it becomes bigger than YVR, that's fine so long as YVR is also doing well. Statistics do mean things of substance, but that they engender competitions; well that's 'stupid on us.'

Vancouver sucks, sure; but Montreal shines on. But, Vancouver might be OK someday. Ha!

Denscity
Dec 17, 2019, 2:36 AM
It is quite telling that the YUL thread (I didn't even know there was one) and the entire Toronto section is an absolute ghost town. Seems like some people have to talk about themselves in front of the whole country or a rival thread like this one to make themselves feel better.

nname
Dec 17, 2019, 5:16 PM
I sure hope that’s not the case. I booked yvr-sjo on transat in April just last week.

Looks like you can’t book SJO or LIR on TS from anywhere in Canada according to the TS website. Glitch perhaps??

Seems like a glitch indeed. Reservation reopened for the next 2 week and the last return flight from SJO only. Similar case applies for the YYZ and YUL flights.

===========================

In other news, NKG airport reports that the LF for YVR-NKG flight is about 85% on average from July to October. This is much better than the 40-60% load reported a couple of years ago :P (Source (https://minhangshi.oss-cn-beijing.aliyuncs.com/forum/201912/17/091223syzuuu7rtuuyt59c.jpg))

Trying to ignore everything else that's going on in this thread...

twoNeurons
Dec 18, 2019, 11:15 PM
I promise to shut up soon.

I'm from Montreal (long time ago) and I love Montreal. I have no derogation for anything about Montreal. It pains me everytime I type 'Montreal' without the accent.

It's pretty easy to type Montréal with an accent. At least on a Mac. You either hold down e and wait a second, or you hold option-e, e.

I prefer to type Montréal, Québec with the accents intact as well.

LeftCoaster
Dec 19, 2019, 1:15 AM
No need to dump on Montreal guys, it's a wonderful city. I just needed to correct a very misguided opinion held by noflyzone, there's no need to stoop down to his level and take shots at Montreal.

Good news on the transat flight, it was indeed a glitch. I was pretty worried I would need to rebook there for a bit. one of the main reasons I'm going to Costa Rica is because there's finally a direct! Would have defeated the point if there wasn't.

Now I just need a direct to Lima for next fall's vacation...

SpongeG
Dec 19, 2019, 5:31 AM
Speaking of Lima, I saw banners for Lima all over YVR and looked up flights, there is one option that you can book with Japan Airlines, it goes via Mexico City, is it a code share and you would fly on Aeromexico? Since it was one of the other options.

SpongeG
Dec 19, 2019, 8:12 AM
747's are my favourite plane

6tUfsZe6u_8

thenoflyzone
Dec 19, 2019, 6:48 PM
but your views on economics clearly leave quite a lot to be desired.

Really now.

Let's keep reading what you wrote...


..but BC has led Canada in GDP growth rates for 3 years now and looks to continue strong economic growth with tech, LNG infrastructure and finance continuing to lead the way.

So please keep continuing to comment on air related issues, as you know what you're talking about, but don't bother with economic commentary since you don't seem particularly up to speed on what's going on in Vancouver.

Really?

So I guess StatsCan and their 2018 real GDP figures are false then.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/190501/dq190501a-eng.htm

2018 Quebec real GDP +2.5%
2018 BC real GDP +2.4%

Real GDP accounts for inflation/deflation. It illustrates a more accurate picture of which province is growing organically, and which ones are growing due to inflation caused by soaring real estate prices over the years, as an example....

So yeah, BC is leading the country alright, if by leading you mean 3rd place, behind P.E.I and Quebec. BC has been doing good these last years, yes, but its comparable to other provinces, and nothing out of the ordinary. Real GDP figures point that out.

Also, so far this year, Quebec real GDP is outpacing the rest of the country 2 to 1. (3% vs 1.5%)

https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/economic-news-gdp-qc.pdf

So i'll stick to my economic commentary, if it's alright with you.

Bottom line, you couldn't understand why with Vancouver's seemingly good economic climate, YVR was lagging behind other Canadian airports with growth this year (new destinations as well as pax increase). I answered. And now all of you are after me like what I'm saying is false. It Isn't.

Your economy is heavily dependent on real estate and foreign money from China. Things are now bad in HKG, our relation with China is in the gutters, bilateral is maxed out and now you're wondering why YVR is stagnant? Doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

I don't mind when people try and pump up Montreal because it has 40 years of sub-par performance to catch up on (negative migration, sub par employment growth, long term airport growth). Meanwhile Vancouver has gone from nothing to world renowned in the time Montreal has gone from the top of the country to a distant 2nd and sometimes 3rd. It has only been a couple years they've had better performance but it's given some people a very entitled attitude to look down on anyone else. Never more so than the foreign buyer question. There have been countless stories of Chinese buyers lining up for new projects in Montreal just because Vancouver and Toronto put foreign buyer limits in, and Montreal wanted the scraps from people who would've preferred Van or TO if they had a choice. But the funniest part is the denial from Montreal boosters who don't see any issue with it happening there, but then call Vancouver a one trick pony, even when it doesn't happen here any more.

Never denied it. I see it first hand. Although the overall impact of this on Quebec is far less than what you are seeing in BC.

And I'm not boosting Montreal. nname said YUL and YYZ were gaining as much as losing destinations. That wasn't accurate in the case of YUL and I simply pointed it out. But I guess pointing out facts is called boosting now.....

Don't make serious arguments to defend Vancouver to a brick.



Better that than talking about mountains and oceans.......

nname
Dec 19, 2019, 7:33 PM
And I'm not boosting Montreal. nname said YUL and YYZ were gaining as much as losing destinations. That wasn't accurate in the case of YUL and I simply pointed it out. But I guess pointing out facts is called boosting now.....

Look again, that's not what I said.

I said YUL, YYC, YYZ all have gain and loss in service, but I never said the amount of service lost = service gained.

The only airport I quantified when comparing service is YYC, which I stated it lost much more from AC compared to the amount gained.

thenoflyzone
Dec 19, 2019, 7:40 PM
Look again, that's not what I said.

I said YUL, YYC, YYZ all have gain and loss in service, but I never said the amount of service lost = service gained.

The only airport I quantified when comparing service is YYC, which I stated it lost much more from AC compared to the amount gained.

You said YUL gained BOG but lost LIM. Simply pointed out that YUL gained far more than BOG this year (and next). So that LIM loss is pretty insignificant, and is not comparable to the lack of new destinations at YVR.

nname
Dec 19, 2019, 7:57 PM
You said YUL gained BOG but lost LIM. Simply pointed out that YUL gained far more than BOG this year (and next). So that LIM loss is pretty insignificant, and is not comparable to the lack of new destinations at YVR.

And I was just giving examples for AC moving their resource around. I also did not list out all the destinations or services that YYZ, YYC, YEG, YQB, YHZ, YOW gained or lost. This is YVR thread, and I was trying to at least keep my post relevant rather than having 95% of my post talking about other airports.

Lack of new destinations? YVR had 2 new and 1 reinstated this winter season. None are from AC though.:rolleyes:

SpongeG
Dec 19, 2019, 9:16 PM
.

LeftCoaster
Dec 19, 2019, 10:48 PM
Really now.

So I guess StatsCan and their 2018 real GDP figures are false then.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/190501/dq190501a-eng.htm



I use Royal Bank of Canada , who have BC's Real GDP at 3.7%, 3.5%, 3.5%, 3.8% through 2017. They haven't finalized 2018 yet but you are right they show Quebec as being 0.1% higher than BC. Whoopde do. BC was 10 times higher than that over Quebec in 2017.

Besides, I didn't really want to make this a Montreal thing or a vs thing, but here we go...

I know you think we should be impressed that for once in the past 20 years Quebec's is growing, but for somewhere that hasn't been a complete economic basket case for the last generation or two we aren't. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy things are looking better there, maybe it means we wont have to send billions of dollars out east every damn year, but 2.5% GDP growth is hardly impressive, but I'm glad that makes you happy. Also, it seems to have jumped the second Vancouver and Toronto put capital flow restrictions on their real estate, so looks like Montreal is just being boosted by money that no longer flows into Vancouver. Funny how that happens.

Bottom line is Vancouver's economy is growing leaps and bounds faster than Montreal's. Jesus, Montreal just posted a net loss of 51,000 jobs over the past 12 months (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/191206/t008a-eng.htm). That's unreal.

But hey Vancouver's economy is all Chinese residential investment you say?

Let's take a look at office space, a great metric of a growing economy, shall we? After all no Chinese real estate investors are taking hundred thousand square foot office blocks.

Greater Montreal is building 3.4 million square feet of office space right now, Greater Vancouver is building 7.5 million square feet. It's not even close, and Montreal is the bigger City!

Hell Vancouver absorbed 2.3 million square feet in one year last year, that's almost Montreal's entire office development pipeline in one year. This year will be slower since there is literally no more space to absorb, the downtown vacancy rate is at 1.4%. Just as a comparison, Montreal's is at 10.3%.

But sure, you keep telling yourself Vancouver is a one trick pony, only growing because of Chinese real estate investment. An economically troubled region too tied to Asian investment, continue to be ignorant if you wish. I only ask you, who is taking all this office space? I know the answer, but you sure don't.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 23, 2019, 6:35 PM
Yeah you tell him!
Since I’ve ignored him and one other in here I only see what they say when someone quotes them. No value added commentary just rubbish.

Great to be back in YVR. Another pleasant arrival experience and flights on EVA Air.

Denscity
Dec 23, 2019, 9:33 PM
Welcome back Johnny!

nname
Dec 25, 2019, 8:37 AM
Interjet increase YVR-MEX to 6x weekly for the month of February, and daily starting April all the way to end end of schedule in Nov 2020. Jan and March remains 4x weekly.

4O2850 MEX 1800 - 2145 YVR 320 D
4O2851 YVR 2310 - 0700+1 MEX 320 D

During DST adjustment, the additional flight will have the flight number 4O2853

AeroMexico is also increase MEX to 16x weekly base service (from 15x weekly) from Apr to end of schedule in Nov 2020.

Icelandair seems like will operate 5x weekly YVR-KEF this summer, day x26

casper
Dec 25, 2019, 10:05 AM
You said YUL gained BOG but lost LIM. Simply pointed out that YUL gained far more than BOG this year (and next). So that LIM loss is pretty insignificant, and is not comparable to the lack of new destinations at YVR.

I am pretty certain no one who is playing with real money (e.g., the airlines) or the people who operate the airport view any of this as a competition between YUL and YVR. So why should we.

It is good to see YUL growing. Love the airport and the city. It has a lot of potential but it is going to have to deal with some difficult physical constraints at some point. As a gateway between Europe/Africa and the Americas it has a lot of potential. YVR will never be a significant gateway in that respect.

YVR also a bit more flexibility it how it grows. It is growth will be drive by local demand, Asia Pacific and Australia.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 26, 2019, 11:32 PM
Interjet increase YVR-MEX to 6x weekly for the month of February, and daily starting April all the way to end end of schedule in Nov 2020. Jan and March remains 4x weekly.

4O2850 MEX 1800 - 2145 YVR 320 D
4O2851 YVR 2310 - 0700+1 MEX 320 D

During DST adjustment, the additional flight will have the flight number 4O2853

AeroMexico is also increase MEX to 16x weekly base service (from 15x weekly) from Apr to end of schedule in Nov 2020.

Icelandair seems like will operate 5x weekly YVR-KEF this summer, day x26

Good news about MEX flights. AM is going to 20 weekly (3 daily except only 2 on Tuesdays) mid June right to end of October. With InterJet going daily that’s a total of 5 daily YVR-MEX in the summer (4 on Tuesdays). Good result.

whatnext
Dec 27, 2019, 7:07 PM
YVR's choice of land McArthur Glen is coming back to bit it in the ass. They need to realize their priority is passengers using the airport, not shoppers:

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Another Boxing Day has come and gone, but not without frustration.

Once again, people who say they were driving to Vancouver International Airport are expressing their angst over the outlet mall near YVR, after they were stuck in traffic backing up into Vancouver.

“Stupidest place ever for a mall,” reads one tweet in response to the congestion caused by deal hunters at the McArthurGlen Designer Outlet....

...Some drivers called NEWS 1130 to air their grievances directly, with some saying they waited about 40 minutes to get across the bridge toward the airport from Bridgeport. At least one passenger said they were probably going to miss their flight...

https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/12/27/commuters-yvr-passengers-boxing-day-traffic/

Henbo
Dec 27, 2019, 8:14 PM
YVR's choice of land McArthur Glen is coming back to bit it in the ass. They need to realize their priority is passengers using the airport, not shoppers:

They do, that's why they built this mall, to bring in additional revenue that can help lower the cost burden for airlines and travellers

The issue is that parking at the mall is free. With the Canada Line at the door step, I'm wondering if in their lease agreements, would they be able to charge for parking? I know retail centres aren't in favour of this, but if YVR want's to better manage vehicle demand..

I also wonder if it would be possible for YVR to implement some sort of congestion pricing scheme? It's federal jurisdiction, and with predicted passenger growth, the Arthur Laing bridge is only going to become more of a choke point.

nname
Dec 27, 2019, 8:41 PM
I think it's likely because the parking lot for the outlet is full, and some drivers choose to wait on the left-turn lane despite being asked to continue and turn around the back of the outlet mall. This cause a back up on the Templeton Station Road and onto Templeton Street, which then clogged up the intersection with Grant McConachie Way and then onto Grant McConachie Way itself.

Saw this issue earlier in December, where the line of cars trying to get into the parking went all the way onto Templeton Street.


I also wonder if it would be possible for YVR to implement some sort of congestion pricing scheme? It's federal jurisdiction, and with predicted passenger growth, the Arthur Laing bridge is only going to become more of a choke point.

Maybe have sign on the other side of the bridge telling how many spaces left in the parking lot and whether the lot is full, and/or reimburse transit fares if the total purchase is more than some fixed amount, and/or have a deal with RiverRock/TransLink to offer the P&R at Bridgeport for free for shoppers during Boxing Day (which otherwise lies empty)? At least this will encourage people to take transit and/or reduce the amount of cars driving onto the island.

zahav
Dec 27, 2019, 10:21 PM
It is annoying but back-ups like that are really restricted to Boxing Day/Black Friday , it is not an everyday occurence. I still thank that location was the best choice in terms of access and with transit. T. Mills also got hit with major traffic snarls on Boxing Day (much to the anger of locals as well), but it isn't an everyday thing. YVR warned people a lot that there was going to be traffic snarls, if people didn't leave time then that's not the airport's fault

Klazu
Dec 28, 2019, 4:50 AM
Yeah, this was completely predicted and communicated widely. If someone still missed their flight, that's on them and them alone.

I hope parking remains free as I would never visit the place unless for the free parking. SkyTrain is also always packed so it's not like it would be any solution to take it instead. We just need more infrastructure in form of more SkyTrain and more lanes. We see this everywhere in the Metro.

nname
Dec 28, 2019, 5:21 AM
Some update for S20 service from Chinese airlines:

CZ seems to closed reservation for MEX-YVR-CAN from Mar 29. Service on YVR-CAN seems to be unchanged at the moment. Unsure of where they will use the 3x weekly that was just freed up. However, since they did not use the 3x weekly slot for the winter season, they WILL lose it if they didn't find a use for them by April.

Rumor is that MU is pulling out long-hual service originating from KMG, which includes YVR-NKG-KMG. Starting from Mar 29, the route will becomes YVR-NKG only. However, this had not reflected on the schedule yet.

WestCoastEcho
Dec 28, 2019, 7:55 AM
Some update for S20 service from Chinese airlines:

CZ seems to closed reservation for MEX-YVR-CAN from Mar 29. Service on YVR-CAN seems to be unchanged at the moment. Unsure of where they will use the 3x weekly that was just freed up. However, since they did not use the 3x weekly slot for the winter season, they WILL lose it if they didn't find a use for them by April.

Rumor is that MU is pulling out long-hual service originating from KMG, which includes YVR-NKG-KMG. Starting from Mar 29, the route will becomes YVR-NKG only. However, this had not reflected on the schedule yet.

I suspect more adjustments, reduction in frequencies, or down gauges coming forth from many of these Chinese airlines, as many of these airlines are already struggling to turn a profit as it is, and with the current geo-political situation has caused a major downturn in traffic.

nname
Dec 28, 2019, 8:02 AM
I suspect more adjustments, reduction in frequencies, or down gauges coming forth from many of these Chinese airlines, as many of these airlines are already struggling to turn a profit as it is, and with the current geo-political situation has caused a major downturn in traffic.

That will come with the risk of not only losing the slot, but also affect the chance of obtaining future slot in another airport/country through competition, as it count toward the airline score.

Believe it or not, the Canadian routes are far from being the worse performing long-hual, mainly due to the frequency cap imposed on the Canadian side...

zahav
Dec 28, 2019, 9:08 AM
You could never go MEX-YVR on CZ anyways, it wasn't available for purchase, unlike the CX route to JFK. So if they drop the MEX route but keep the 3x weekly YVR then it is a boost in seats actually, since those flights won't be continuing on to MEX. The MEX pax never counted in YVR traffic numbers, since you couldn't from there from YVR.

WestCoastEcho
Dec 28, 2019, 9:42 AM
That will come with the risk of not only losing the slot, but also affect the chance of obtaining future slot in another airport/country through competition, as it count toward the airline score.

Believe it or not, the Canadian routes are far from being the worse performing long-hual, mainly due to the frequency cap imposed on the Canadian side...

A couple of these Chinese airlines are teetering on the brink of insolvency, so maintaining slots to fly to Canada, which is unprofitable as it is (witness the extremely depressed prices as everyone is trying to undercut each other) might not be in their best interests moving forward, especially since it was revealed that in general, all of the Chinese airlines collectively were bleeding money massively on international flights. They can't keep this going for much longer before capital runs out.

nname
Dec 28, 2019, 9:43 AM
YVR-CAN is currently 7x weekly for S20, so the extra 3 weekly are also gone for now (hence the question of where CZ will use those frequency on).

Normally, Chinese city will subsidize a route for up to 3 years. Now looking at some examples:

SZX-SEA: began Sept 26, 2016; ended Sept 25, 2019
CGO-YVR: began Nov 11, 2016; ended Nov 5, 2019
CAN-MEX: began Apr 10, 2017; to end Mar 29, 2020

Hmmm......

By the way, PEK-YYC began June 30, 2016... and this winter is the first to be outside of the 3 years period and the route is already down to seasonal. I wonder if subsidy was involved too....


A couple of these Chinese airlines are teetering on the brink of insolvency, so maintaining slots to fly to Canada, which is unprofitable as it is (witness the extremely depressed prices as everyone is trying to undercut each other) might not be in their best interests moving forward, especially since it was revealed that in general, all of the Chinese airlines collectively were bleeding money massively on international flights. They can't keep this going for much longer before capital runs out.

Firstly, CA, MU, CZ, and 3U are currently just fine.
Secondly, most of the airlines are making huge profits on domestic route, and they use them to subsidize long-haul. Even if long-haul are bleeding money, they are still making profit overall. This is what's keeping them going for so long.
And thirdly, there are subsidy. If a route is really unprofitable, then airline will shut it down after exactly 3 years when the subsidy stopped (see above). When subsidy is ongoing, they are almost guaranteed to not lose money, so why not just fly near-empty planes to keep the slots?

By the way, subsidy for YVR-TAO and YVR-NKG should be expiring by the end of this month. So far both routes seems to be fine running over the rest of the winter season, so I don't see they'll do anything to them over the summer....

WestCoastEcho
Dec 28, 2019, 9:51 AM
YVR-CAN is currently 7x weekly for S20, so the extra 3 weekly are also gone for now (hence the question of where CZ will use those frequency on).

Normally, Chinese city will subsidize a route for up to 3 years. Now looking at some examples:

SZX-SEA: began Sept 26, 2016; ended Sept 25, 2019
CGO-YVR: began Nov 11, 2019; ended Nov 5, 2019
CAN-MEX: began Apr 10, 2017; to end Mar 29, 2020

Hmmm......

By the way, PEK-YYC began June 30, 2016... and this winter is the first to be outside of the 3 years period and the route is already down to seasonal. I wonder if subsidy was involved too....
Bet you 5 bucks it was subsidized.

Have you actually looked at the prices of the flights involved? They are ridiculously low, and my understanding is that they aren't filling the flights either. From what I've understood, the passengers are almost all outbound leisure passengers from Mainland China, which isn't exactly high yielding to begin with.

nname
Dec 28, 2019, 9:59 AM
Bet you 5 bucks it was subsidized.

Have you actually looked at the prices of the flights involved? They are ridiculously low, and my understanding is that they aren't filling the flights either. From what I've understood, the passengers are almost all outbound leisure passengers from Mainland China, which isn't exactly high yielding to begin with.

Like I said, if there are subsidy they don't really care... The government is paying 70-100% of the operating cost, so whatever they earned is theirs to keep. When subsidy expired... well I just checked a few fare for direct flights and they aren't really that cheap anymore. They are quite comparable to the what AC offers...

I don't know about the other routes, but I see reports that the LF on YVR-NKG is about 85% over the past few months.

By the way, AC is offering round-trip YVR-PVG at $510 CAD right now, and is now the cheapest direct flight fare to Asia from YVR :D

casper
Dec 28, 2019, 10:17 AM
I think it's likely because the parking lot for the outlet is full, and some drivers choose to wait on the left-turn lane despite being asked to continue and turn around the back of the outlet mall. This cause a back up on the Templeton Station Road and onto Templeton Street, which then clogged up the intersection with Grant McConachie Way and then onto Grant McConachie Way itself.

Saw this issue earlier in December, where the line of cars trying to get into the parking went all the way onto Templeton Street.




Maybe have sign on the other side of the bridge telling how many spaces left in the parking lot and whether the lot is full, and/or reimburse transit fares if the total purchase is more than some fixed amount, and/or have a deal with RiverRock/TransLink to offer the P&R at Bridgeport for free for shoppers during Boxing Day (which otherwise lies empty)? At least this will encourage people to take transit and/or reduce the amount of cars driving onto the island.


My biggest compliant is actually is before the mall opens. They block entrance to the mall parking lot until the mall opens. End result is if you are using the long-term parking and arriving on an morning flight you be stuck not being able to leave the airport due to the line up of cars waiting to enter that silly shopping centers parking lot. It is quite unsafe.

The weekend before Christmas arrived on the early flight from Edmonton, trying to leave the long-term parking, had to drive down the wrong lane of traffic to get around that nonsense. That is clearly the fault of the operators of the mall for not opening the gates to their parking lot when they see that traffic is backed up.

SpongeG
Dec 28, 2019, 12:18 PM
I think it's likely because the parking lot for the outlet is full, and some drivers choose to wait on the left-turn lane despite being asked to continue and turn around the back of the outlet mall. This cause a back up on the Templeton Station Road and onto Templeton Street, which then clogged up the intersection with Grant McConachie Way and then onto Grant McConachie Way itself.

Saw this issue earlier in December, where the line of cars trying to get into the parking went all the way onto Templeton Street.




Maybe have sign on the other side of the bridge telling how many spaces left in the parking lot and whether the lot is full, and/or reimburse transit fares if the total purchase is more than some fixed amount, and/or have a deal with RiverRock/TransLink to offer the P&R at Bridgeport for free for shoppers during Boxing Day (which otherwise lies empty)? At least this will encourage people to take transit and/or reduce the amount of cars driving onto the island.

they could block or close templeton on such days, and cars for the outlet are directed to the two northern entrances perhaps.

twoNeurons
Jan 1, 2020, 12:13 AM
they could block or close templeton on such days, and cars for the outlet are directed to the two northern entrances perhaps.

Or perhaps charge $5/hour parking, and then validate parking if you make a purchase.

Sidepoint: I have occasionally used that lot and taken the train to the airport.

casper
Jan 1, 2020, 3:03 AM
Or perhaps charge $5/hour parking, and then validate parking if you make a purchase.

Sidepoint: I have occasionally used that lot and taken the train to the airport.

Better solution is encourage transit. Getting rid of the $5 airport charge would make a lot of sense.

jollyburger
Jan 1, 2020, 3:46 AM
They aren't going to get rid of a $5 airport charge to encourage transit users to go to the outlet mall.

nname
Jan 1, 2020, 4:33 AM
Better solution is encourage transit. Getting rid of the $5 airport charge would make a lot of sense.

You don't need to pay the surcharge anyways.

If you go to outlet mall, buy the return ticket first at your departing station rather than Templeton.

The surcharge is only non-avoidable when you arriving by air from multi-day trip, as pre-purchased tickets expired by the end of day.

Klazu
Jan 1, 2020, 6:40 AM
I always take transit to airport but I do take taxi from the airport due to the surcharge.

whatnext
Jan 1, 2020, 6:15 PM
Better solution is encourage transit. Getting rid of the $5 airport charge would make a lot of sense.

Not really practical if you're a family of four coming from West Vancouver or Coquitlam with a lot of luggage.

I recall YVR has mused about another bridge from the West Side to Sea Island in the past. With the deindustrialization of the waterfront, would it even need to be high level anymore?

libtard
Jan 1, 2020, 7:06 PM
Not really practical if you're a family of four coming from West Vancouver or Coquitlam with a lot of luggage.

I recall YVR has mused about another bridge from the West Side to Sea Island in the past. With the deindustrialization of the waterfront, would it even need to be high level anymore?

There’s a moratorium on adding any new crossings into Vancouver

s211
Jan 1, 2020, 11:48 PM
There’s a moratorium on adding any new crossings into Vancouver

Because nothing quite says being open-minded more than clinging to moratoriums? :shrug:

casper
Jan 11, 2020, 2:41 PM
Not really practical if you're a family of four coming from West Vancouver or Coquitlam with a lot of luggage.

I recall YVR has mused about another bridge from the West Side to Sea Island in the past. With the deindustrialization of the waterfront, would it even need to be high level anymore?

Focusing on increasing transit use to the airport does not mean eliminate cart based options.

Denscity
Jan 11, 2020, 6:35 PM
A couple Omni Air planes on the tarmac I wonder who leased them.

NewfBC
Jan 11, 2020, 6:41 PM
A couple Omni Air planes on the tarmac I wonder who leased them.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2019/flights-operated-on-behalf-of-air-canada-4.html

Ron.

whatnext
Jan 11, 2020, 6:43 PM
A couple Omni Air planes on the tarmac I wonder who leased them.

Doing the Hawai'i routes in for AC in the absence of the 737Max. I really wish Hawaiian would serve Vancouver.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 12, 2020, 12:30 AM
Doing the Hawai'i routes in for AC in the absence of the 737Max. I really wish Hawaiian would serve Vancouver.

And PHX! A member of YVR Facebook spotters page posted a photo on Friday with all three on the gates next to each other.

Denscity
Jan 12, 2020, 4:39 AM
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2019/flights-operated-on-behalf-of-air-canada-4.html

Ron.

Thanks Ron.
Btw I've always wondered why you call yourself NewfBC when you always end your post with "Ron" lol.
Why not just call yourself Ron?

SpongeG
Jan 12, 2020, 6:28 AM
Six month closure to level one domestic road coming up

YVR construction will close ground level road access starting next week
Valerie Leung / Richmond News
JANUARY 10, 2020

Vancouver International Airport will close the level one road access to the domestic terminal for construction starting next week.

According to a media statement, road access will be closed for approximately six months to install “district energy piping” as part of YVR’s new Parkade and Central Utilities Building (CUB) project starting Jan. 14.

Courtesy shuttles, TransLink buses and pre-arranged commercial pick-ups will be affected during this time: Courtesy shuttle pick-ups and drop offs have been moved to departures level three. There are signs inside the terminal to direct travelers to appropriate shuttles. The N10 TransLink bus stop has been relocated outside the domestic departures check-in on level three. And, all pre-arranged commercial pick-ups will be on level two at international arrivals starting Jan. 14.

Pedestrian access to the parkade from the domestic terminal building is still open through designated walking routes.

...

https://www.vancourier.com/yvr-construction-will-close-ground-level-road-access-starting-next-week-1.24049804

zahav
Jan 13, 2020, 6:23 AM
They chose a decent time to do it at least, this time of year is def slowest for travel. And Level 1 was just transit basically, the the 7-11

casper
Jan 13, 2020, 7:39 AM
They chose a decent time to do it at least, this time of year is def slowest for travel. And Level 1 was just transit basically, the the 7-11

Arrived from the US Friday Night. The day before they sent all the jetSet users who had left cars an e-mail about the move. Description was weird but managed to find it.

One of the odd things about YVR is they don't give their doors or pilers numbers. Would make giving these types of directions easier.

Level 1 on domestic side long ago that was international arrivals before the new terminal. Someone told me it is still there but boarded up. On the intenational side there is a lot more happening on Level 1.

zahav
Jan 16, 2020, 7:03 AM
I totally remember international arrivals on level 1 of domestic, crazy to think that was once the case. As for the old section still being there, that could be true. When I used to work at the airport, I biked to work and the locker was down there along with the pass control office and some other offices. But I don't think it takes up all of the old level 1 so the old arrivals could be lurking somewhere within

Johnny Aussie
Jan 17, 2020, 10:14 PM
You guys surviving the blizzard??

I was in YVR for 2 1/2 weeks and didn’t see one snowflake - well not in the city.
And then a couple of days after we left....

Intl departures was particularly busy the evening we left this year... everything just seemed busier overall. Even Victoria was abuzz. EVA Air was excellent again.

So QF almost wrapped up for the season. Really happy to see they will be back to YVR in your summer again. Last summer they didn’t fly. After this year things less certain as the 744s are going.

LeftCoaster
Jan 18, 2020, 1:31 AM
Really happy to see they will be back to YVR in your summer again.

They are? Since when?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 18, 2020, 3:44 AM
They are? Since when?

3 flights per week from 25 June for 6 weeks. Loaded and selling!

And Air North has kicked off twice weekly seasonal YVR-YZF today.

https://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2020/yvr-celebrates-air-norths-new-seasonal-service-to-yellowknife

stiffdeadman
Jan 20, 2020, 4:20 AM
Doing the Hawai'i routes in for AC in the absence of the 737Max. I really wish Hawaiian would serve Vancouver.

Now that Hawaiian are receiving A321Neos, the economics might be right for them to serve YVR in the future.