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thenoflyzone
Oct 17, 2019, 9:01 PM
The other factor is AT is removing older A310 from the fleet and replacing them with these new extended range A321 aircraft. I don't think these extended A321 can make it from Vancouver to Europe. Fewer longer range aircraft in the fleet means cuts somewhere.

The A310s can’t make it from mainland europe to YVR with a meaningful payload either. Hence why you rarely (if ever) saw them on YVR-Europe runs.

thenoflyzone
Oct 17, 2019, 9:04 PM
I think YVR may be positioned better to server secondary hubs better, like Munich, Berlin, Stockholm, Warsaw... maybe Brussels? How about a direct YVR-LIS flight? Those are destinations perfectly suited to the 787 and not really doable from YYC.

Yes, theoretically. But those are slim pickings from YVR also. Stockholm isn’t even served from YYZ. SAS doesn’t serve Canada. They used to serve YMX in the past (https://www.airliners.net/photo/Scandinavian-Airlines-SAS/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-10-30/13511), though. You’ll see YUL or YWG-Warsaw (yes, Winnipeg !) before YVR-Warsaw. As for TXL, North American carriers notoriously struggle with Berlin, and from the east coast at that. Forget about a west coast-Berlin flight ! Can't see a YVR-BRU flight either. Most of the demand from Canada to Belgium is from the east coast. Which is why Brussels airlines didn't launch YVR or YYC and chose to double up with AC on YUL-BRU instead.

BCN or FCO are probably next for YVR. I think I've said that before. TS has tried YVR-FCO before, it didn't work. It might with an AC dreamliner on a summer seasonal basis. Not in the short to medium term though.

nname
Oct 17, 2019, 10:45 PM
The other factor is AT is removing older A310 from the fleet and replacing them with these new extended range A321 aircraft. I don't think these extended A321 can make it from Vancouver to Europe. Fewer longer range aircraft in the fleet means cuts somewhere.

A321LR can barely make it to DUB or OSL from YVR, but A321XLR would have no issue reaching CDG and maybe even LIS and WAW.

Both AC and TS did show interest with XLR, but neither had ordered any so far.

nname
Oct 18, 2019, 8:54 AM
Flair's Spring schedule so far... until Jun 15, 2020

F8138 x23 0930 YVR - YEG 1200
F8138 23 1200 YVR - YEG 1430

F8139 x23 1300 YEG - YVR 1335
F8139 23 1030 YEG - YVR 1105

F8223 x2 0630 YYZ - YVR 0840
F8711 x36 1755 YYZ - YVR 2010

F8224 1347 0930 YVR - YYZ 1700
F8224 5 0725 YVR - YYZ 1455
F8224 6 1430 YVR - YYZ 2200
F8712 x36 2300 YVR - YYZ 0630

F8295 147 2045 YYC - YVR 2115
F8295 5 1900 YYC - YVR 1930
F8295 6 1115 YYC - YVR 1145
F8814 23 1045 YYC - YVR 1115
F8826 47 0800 YYC - YVR 0830

F8296 1457 1430 YVR - YYC 1655
F8296 6 1245 YVR - YYC 1510
F8813 23 1215 YVR - YYC 1440
F8825 15 2115 YVR - YYC 2340

Obviously not finished yet (there're more YYC-YVR than YVR-YYC). But as of now, the routes are pretty much the same as W19, just with higher frequency. Note flight 712 is the first and only schedule red-eye flight for F8 so far.

As of now, YVR would be the 4th largest base for F8 with 54 weekly departures+arrivals. This is behind YYZ (78), YYC (65), and YEG (58).

[EDIT] As of this morning, Monday flight 826 changed to a 825, so now inbound and outbound matches.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 20, 2019, 10:55 AM
Westjet is increasing YVR-LGW to a daily 789 next summer. That's an increase of about 668 departing seats per week.

Denscity
Oct 20, 2019, 2:53 PM
Westjet is increasing YVR-LGW to a daily 789 next summer. That's an increase of about 668 departing seats per week.

Ok so we gained back some YVR LON then good.

SFUVancouver
Oct 20, 2019, 3:58 PM
Not only gaining back some capacity to London, but on a Canadian airline, so the economic benefits that will accrue are proportionately greater. That's not nothing, especially with recession fears looming and Westjet's fortunes being impacted by the deplorable 737Max situation.

SpongeG
Oct 23, 2019, 8:41 PM
from their facebook:

Vancouver International Airport
3 hrs ·
Safety is our #1 core value at YVR, that's why we're investing $150 million into building 300m Runway End Safety Areas (RESA) - double the proposed Canadian safety standards. The South Runway is already complete and the North Runway will be finished by Fall 2021.

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73475138_2512799855424460_668146076301131776_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_eui2=AeHc0l6iX0g0OeGXRf_3mbrnk16S7Sh0Uh7_IVuKBPa_MgGz-jpffy3H4G8KPn1C-7LGOHIQFnlAfAVdVfjXJ9F5GXil9B5lyKLwrlD39EgqlA&_nc_oc=AQmmlwfCqQdP7fE0croF2mhNJoNv4npwBqgpYP19_2BwMdCWu9XeBp4YRpy-xDSO9Ws&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=1565b98693b43df21270a4536c645767&oe=5E5C5C4C

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74322566_2512799812091131_4331223520127221760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeElbn0oM9yBd-GMUAgosoh62loaWxlLCHU6DT4c7PiUseac_nWvJ0h5mYxj2GSQa83iqvpr3d2SuP-d1Uz7TF-eTDfs9DWSmGmKhabO9Uyssw&_nc_oc=AQl2uNUrJJmfwtaposXN-vjt6cDKNndMEAEvy5vdipzFJfFMWSWEtri5fQEVZDp8Xno&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=be8bb8b298a62d002fe1037af46b1c40&oe=5E5D6F99

SpongeG
Oct 28, 2019, 6:58 AM
Joe & the juice is open now, they have quite a large seating area

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48972206586_94ba8dec19_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hBvmRq)2019-10-27_09-24-06 (https://flic.kr/p/2hBvmRq) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

the seating extends to the windows
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48971656873_27e3f2c62f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxrB)2019-10-27_09-24-12 (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxrB) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

the new hudson
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48971657258_c49e2d62f7_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxyf)2019-10-27_09-24-17 (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxyf) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

Pacific Farms Market is replacing that cafe Brioche, I think that is what it was called

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48971657778_aefff3f2f4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxHd)2019-10-27_09-24-25 (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxHd) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48971658218_bee81298ca_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxQN)2019-10-27_09-24-30 (https://flic.kr/p/2hBsxQN) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

connect2source
Oct 28, 2019, 11:34 AM
Great pics and updates SpongeG thanks tons! The improved food offerings at YVR can't come soon enough! Joe & The Juice is a staple at most European airports and one of my favs, now all we need is Pret A Manger!

SpongeG
Oct 28, 2019, 5:28 PM
I found it interesting that Joe & The Juice plays fairly loud music, you never hear much of anything at YVR

Klazu
Oct 28, 2019, 7:53 PM
Has anyone been recently flying on any those late-night Asia flights? I am flying to Kuala Lumpur with EVA Air via Taipei this week and the flight is the second last to depart at just before 2am. This late in the night, is there anything open at the airport and will check-in desks and security close earlier than normally?

There are also flights with China Airlines and Cathay Pacific depart around the same time, so there should be hundreds of people in the international terminal but otherwise I expect the airport to be dead.

Years ago I flew on the second last flight of the night out of Incheon Internal Airport and I was shocked what a ghost town one of the busiest airports in the world becomes for few hours in the middle of the night. It was really hard to find any services as everything was closed.

LeftCoaster
Oct 28, 2019, 9:16 PM
Not only gaining back some capacity to London, but on a Canadian airline, so the economic benefits that will accrue are proportionately greater. That's not nothing, especially with recession fears looming and Westjet's fortunes being impacted by the deplorable 737Max situation.

Sure, but it's westjet so the pilots will definitely be based out of Toronto or Calgary, not Vancouver, so the economic benefits will be accruing elsewhere. At least Transat based their A330 pilots here.

Has anyone been recently flying on any those late-night Asia flights? I am flying to Kuala Lumpur with EVA Air via Taipei this week and the flight is the second last to depart at just before 2am. This late in the night, is there anything open at the airport and will check-in desks and security close earlier than normally?

There are also flights with China Airlines and Cathay Pacific depart around the same time, so there should be hundreds of people in the international terminal but otherwise I expect the airport to be dead.

Years ago I flew on the second last flight of the night out of Incheon Internal Airport and I was shocked what a ghost town one of the busiest airports in the world becomes for few hours in the middle of the night. It was really hard to find any services as everything was closed.

Ya I've taken more than my fair share, the terminal is busy but services are bare bones. Don't rely on anything beyond Hudson News and a few other food court tenants being open. Also Nexus lanes are closed and security can get pretty busy, so don't rely on being able to jump the queue if you usually do.

casper
Oct 29, 2019, 2:27 AM
Sure, but it's westjet so the pilots will definitely be based out of Toronto or Calgary, not Vancouver, so the economic benefits will be accruing elsewhere. At least Transat based their A330 pilots here.

I would not read to much into where the pilots and flight attendants are based from. Many of them chose to live in a different city than there base and they "jump seat" from home to their "base". No shortage of WestJet and AC pilots who live on Vancouver Island or Vancouver and are officially based in Calgary.

They are buying provisioning the aircraft, buying fuel etc. locally.



Ya I've taken more than my fair share, the terminal is busy but services are bare bones. Don't rely on anything beyond Hudson News and a few other food court tenants being open. Also Nexus lanes are closed and security can get pretty busy, so don't rely on being able to jump the queue if you usually do.

I have arrived off late flight around midnight a number of times and rarely departed at that time. The arrivals area is busy though quite a bit slower than during the morning and mid-day peek. The departure area is as you say.

Klazu
Oct 29, 2019, 6:27 AM
Ya I've taken more than my fair share, the terminal is busy but services are bare bones. Don't rely on anything beyond Hudson News and a few other food court tenants being open. Also Nexus lanes are closed and security can get pretty busy, so don't rely on being able to jump the queue if you usually do.

Thanks! That's what I was also expecting to be the case.

I am quite surprised YVR has 2am flights. They must depart over the ocean to reduce noise to neighboring residents, especially since those late-night flights are on some big planes.

Nites
Oct 30, 2019, 2:43 AM
Has anyone been recently flying on any those late-night Asia flights? I am flying to Kuala Lumpur with EVA Air via Taipei this week and the flight is the second last to depart at just before 2am. This late in the night, is there anything open at the airport and will check-in desks and security close earlier than normally?

There are also flights with China Airlines and Cathay Pacific depart around the same time, so there should be hundreds of people in the international terminal but otherwise I expect the airport to be dead.

Years ago I flew on the second last flight of the night out of Incheon Internal Airport and I was shocked what a ghost town one of the busiest airports in the world becomes for few hours in the middle of the night. It was really hard to find any services as everything was closed.

I flew to JFK on Cathay back in 2005 and that place was packed considering it was midnight. Also, had a few late flights from YVR to the UK and YVR was always dead silent from what I remember. By the way Starbucks, Timmys, and Wendys is always open 24/7 at international terminal. I think everything else is closed by 10pm.

Klazu
Oct 30, 2019, 5:03 AM
Interesting that they are 24/7 considering that there are no flights between 2am and 6am. Maybe not worth it to close for just four hours?

Klazu
Oct 30, 2019, 5:05 AM
From their Facebook: "Safety is our #1 core value at YVR, that's why we're investing $150 million into building 300m Runway End Safety Areas (RESA) - double the proposed Canadian safety standards. The South Runway is already complete and the North Runway will be finished by Fall 2021."

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73475138_2512799855424460_668146076301131776_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_eui2=AeHc0l6iX0g0OeGXRf_3mbrnk16S7Sh0Uh7_IVuKBPa_MgGz-jpffy3H4G8KPn1C-7LGOHIQFnlAfAVdVfjXJ9F5GXil9B5lyKLwrlD39EgqlA&_nc_oc=AQmmlwfCqQdP7fE0croF2mhNJoNv4npwBqgpYP19_2BwMdCWu9XeBp4YRpy-xDSO9Ws&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=1565b98693b43df21270a4536c645767&oe=5E5C5C4C

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74322566_2512799812091131_4331223520127221760_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeElbn0oM9yBd-GMUAgosoh62loaWxlLCHU6DT4c7PiUseac_nWvJ0h5mYxj2GSQa83iqvpr3d2SuP-d1Uz7TF-eTDfs9DWSmGmKhabO9Uyssw&_nc_oc=AQl2uNUrJJmfwtaposXN-vjt6cDKNndMEAEvy5vdipzFJfFMWSWEtri5fQEVZDp8Xno&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=be8bb8b298a62d002fe1037af46b1c40&oe=5E5D6F99

That 150 million dollars better buy something more than just 300 meters of runway. That's otherwise an insane cost!

connect2source
Oct 30, 2019, 1:29 PM
The 150M is for the 300m RESA on both the North and South runways, so about 75M each.

osirisboy
Oct 30, 2019, 3:03 PM
The concrete looks cracked

SFUVancouver
Oct 30, 2019, 3:10 PM
Runway Excursion Safety Areas (RESA) aren't just a slab of concrete in the conventional sense. They're meticulously engineered structures in their own right and must meet extraordinary margins for soil stability (so there isn't subsistence or heaving) and they're strong AF (as the kids say) so that they can shrug off the weight of the heaviest aircraft (A380s, 777s, 747s, military transports, etc.) slamming down prior to the runway itself in perilous situations like severe wind shear and microbursts (those have killed a lot of people over the years, Google Delta flight 191; yikes).

With all of that said, it's not the most aesthetically pleasing slab of concrete ever poured. I suspect there is a lot of seasonal staining occurring, particularly in the expansion joints and drainage cuts.

Bottom line, the requirement for RESAs are a reality and airports the world over are struggling with how to create them, especially when airports are hemmed in by ring roads or physical constraints like topo or water bodies. That YVR decided to double the forthcoming Transport Canada RESA requirement, and go for 300 metres at each end is laudable and will serve the airport and traveling public well for decades to come.

Klazu
Oct 30, 2019, 3:51 PM
Yeah, no one is denying that they are a good addition, but no matter how one looks at it, they are still just an over-engineered slab of concrete. For anything like that to cost more than a few million is incredible. 150 million dollars sounds like highway robbery unless they mixed the concrete with diamonds!!

nname
Oct 30, 2019, 5:54 PM
The 150M is for the 300m RESA on both the North and South runways, so about 75M each.

The requirement is 150m on each end, but the recommendation is 300m. YVR decided to go for 300m right away, as the requirement may be increased sooner or later.

So the construction should be 300m on each end of 2 runways means, 1200m of extra runway, plus extending the parallel taxiway to access the end of RESA...

officedweller
Oct 30, 2019, 8:35 PM
delete - nname mentioned what I was going to say

LeftCoaster
Oct 31, 2019, 11:57 PM
I would not read to much into where the pilots and flight attendants are based from. Many of them chose to live in a different city than there base and they "jump seat" from home to their "base". No shortage of WestJet and AC pilots who live on Vancouver Island or Vancouver and are officially based in Calgary.

They are buying provisioning the aircraft, buying fuel etc. locally.


Well so was Transat, but they also based their pilots out of Van. All in all this is of course a loss of service. Surprised no one has jumped in to fill the void, but there is still the mystery of AC and their un-utilized B788 frame from YVR-LHR.

And jump seating is not that common of a phenomenon. It happens of course but not to the extent that were going to get multiple WestJet dereamliner pilots living in Vancouver, like AC pilots in Van. In the west Westjet is a Calgary airline, period. AC functions like a local airline, despite it having multiple hubs, Westjet has two hubs and that is it.

casper
Nov 1, 2019, 1:40 AM
Well so was Transat, but they also based their pilots out of Van. All in all this is of course a loss of service. Surprised no one has jumped in to fill the void, but there is still the mystery of AC and their un-utilized B788 frame from YVR-LHR.

And jump seating is not that common of a phenomenon. It happens of course but not to the extent that were going to get multiple WestJet dereamliner pilots living in Vancouver, like AC pilots in Van. In the west Westjet is a Calgary airline, period. AC functions like a local airline, despite it having multiple hubs, Westjet has two hubs and that is it.

The "hub" description is a bad fit sometimes. Westjet is running flights from London to Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto.

trofirhen
Nov 1, 2019, 3:12 AM
.../edit/ In the west Westjet is a Calgary airline, period. AC functions like a local airline, despite it having multiple hubs, Westjet has two hubs and that is it.

The "hub" description is a bad fit sometimes. Westjet is running flights from London to Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto.
On Westjet's plan for future destinations, CCY will develop new, presumably year-round overseas destinations, YYZ will - big time!, and YVR too. I think YVR may then become a true WS hub.

https://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wjet787.png

teriyaki
Nov 1, 2019, 8:58 AM
On Westjet's plan for future destinations, CCY will develop new, presumably year-round overseas destinations, YYZ will - big time!, and YVR too. I think YVR may then become a true WS hub.

https://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wjet787.png

Looks more like a pipe-dream, or really just a visualization of the range of the 787 than any sort of "plan".

trofirhen
Nov 1, 2019, 5:21 PM
Looks more like a pipe-dream, or really just a visualization of the range of the 787 than any sort of "plan".
Perhaps it is sort of a "pipe dream." But Westjet published it, so presumably it is a goal, even if it may be hard to attain. Nevertheless, it is ambitious, and gives YVR importance as a hub.

Denscity
Nov 1, 2019, 5:43 PM
On Westjet's plan for future destinations, CCY will develop new, presumably year-round overseas destinations, YYZ will - big time!, and YVR too. I think YVR may then become a true WS hub.

https://blueswandaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wjet787.png

Wow that shows more flights from Vancouver than Calgary!

s211
Nov 1, 2019, 6:09 PM
On another front, I had someone tell me that their Melbourne to Vancouver flight on AC a few days ago had only 60 passengers on it. Any idea if that was an isolated incident? I'm curious because another traveler on the same flight a few weeks earlier said that the plane was roughly half-full.

SpongeG
Nov 1, 2019, 6:31 PM
I took that flight last year and It was I would say over 90% full, the business class looked pretty sparse but I couldn't really see much as we didn't get to walk through it.

Now I don't know if this affected why it was so full but the same day the Brisbane flight had been cancelled I think due to a weather issue and they were putting people from that flight onto the Melbourne and Sydney flights and getting them there that way.

LeftCoaster
Nov 1, 2019, 8:53 PM
Perhaps it is sort of a "pipe dream." But Westjet published it, so presumably it is a goal, even if it may be hard to attain. Nevertheless, it is ambitious, and gives YVR importance as a hub.

Goals change.

It is quite clear that today WS intents to have one hub in Western Canada, and that if you want to fly WestJet to anywhere other than a handful of locations the expectation is you will have to make a connection in Calgary.

That goal as well could change, but they've made their intentions quite clear at this point.

trofirhen
Nov 1, 2019, 9:10 PM
Goals change.

It is quite clear that today WS intents to have one hub in Western Canada, and that if you want to fly WestJet to anywhere other than a handful of locations the expectation is you will have to make a connection in Calgary.

That goal as well could change, but they've made their intentions quite clear at this point.
Your point is well taken. There is one major hub at YYC and one at YYZ. I committed the 'error' of projecting into the future, when YVR would be a WS hub if expansion plans go ahead.

whatnext
Nov 1, 2019, 9:39 PM
On another front, I had someone tell me that their Melbourne to Vancouver flight on AC a few days ago had only 60 passengers on it. Any idea if that was an isolated incident? I'm curious because another traveler on the same flight a few weeks earlier said that the plane was roughly half-full.

November is still off-season. I imagine they also do pretty well with freight on the Australia flights as there the only game in town going direct.

nname
Nov 2, 2019, 3:07 AM
On another front, I had someone tell me that their Melbourne to Vancouver flight on AC a few days ago had only 60 passengers on it. Any idea if that was an isolated incident? I'm curious because another traveler on the same flight a few weeks earlier said that the plane was roughly half-full.

October data will be posted within the next 2 months, but as for July and August, LF for YVR-MEL is similar to SYD and BNE routes:

July
YVR-MEL 4723/5194 90.9%
MEL-YVR 4481/5337 84.0%

August
YVR-MEL 3975/4834 82.2%
MEL-YVR 4476/4977 90.0%
Source: https://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/international.aspx

Seems like there are weight restrictions for flights to MEL...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2019, 3:34 AM
October data will be posted within the next 2 months, but as for July and August, LF for YVR-MEL is similar to SYD and BNE routes:

July
YVR-MEL 4723/5194 90.9%
MEL-YVR 4481/5337 84.0%

August
YVR-MEL 3975/4834 82.2%
MEL-YVR 4476/4977 90.0%
Source: https://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/international.aspx

Seems like there are weight restrictions for flights to MEL...

Isn’t BITRE a fantastic stat source!

AC LF for Australia as a whole was 89.8% in July and 85.3% in Aug.

My sources and anecdotal info indicates J does very well on the MEL-YVR route.

trofirhen
Nov 2, 2019, 3:41 AM
Isn’t BITRE a fantastic stat source!

AC LF for Australia as a whole was 89.8% in July and 85.3% in Aug.

My sources and anecdotal info indicates J does very well on the MEL-YVR route.
The yields I've seen, and your mention of J class doing so well are reassuring! At the first couple of mentions of partly empty planes, I feared YVR - MEL might be reduced or even eliminated.
About Qantas, a question, please: is there any chance at all they might come back full time? I love QANTAS for not only family reasons, but the red 'roo design, and the name are so snazzy!

thenoflyzone
Nov 2, 2019, 12:24 PM
The yields I've seen, and your mention of J class doing so well are reassuring!

You haven’t seen the yields. You’ve seen the load factors, which in itself are meaningless.

AC Q3 earnings call from a few days ago:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4300117-air-canada-acdvf-ceo-calin-rovinescu-q3-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript

Lucie Guillemette (Air Canada CFO): “Australia continued to be negatively impacted by increased industry capacity from North America in the quarter.”

They’ve been mentioning this for several quarters now. That tells me yields aren’t where AC wants them to be. This doesn’t mean routes will be canned, it simply means there is more capacity than what the market can absorb, which affects yields.

casper
Nov 2, 2019, 4:03 PM
You haven’t seen the yields. You’ve seen the load factors, which in itself are meaningless.

AC Q3 earnings call from a few days ago:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4300117-air-canada-acdvf-ceo-calin-rovinescu-q3-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript

Lucie Guillemette (Air Canada CFO): “Australia continued to be negatively impacted by increased industry capacity from North America in the quarter.”

They’ve been mentioning this for several quarters now. That tells me yields aren’t where AC wants them to be. This doesn’t mean routes will be canned, it simply means there is more capacity than what the market can absorb, which affects yields.

No idea what is happening with routes to the US. On the Canadian front there is one airline that has added significant capacity between Canada and Australian. Now it is discovering the extra capacity is not be absorbed. Interesting.

SpongeG
Nov 3, 2019, 5:32 AM
Does anyone know why there is usually an Iceland Air plane parked over by the Westjet domestic side?

canlynx
Nov 3, 2019, 10:16 AM
Does anyone know why there is usually an Iceland Air plane parked over by the Westjet domestic side?

Icelandair doesn’t return same day. Their aircraft always sit overnight in order to better connect in KEF.

trofirhen
Nov 3, 2019, 11:02 PM
Icelandair doesn’t return same day. Their aircraft always sit overnight in order to better connect in KEF.
Regarding this, I wonder if it will be similar next summer when TURKISH starts flying to YVR 3x / week. I hope that a TK jet will stay the night. It'll add a certain "presence" and "prestige." ....:ohyeah

Johnny Aussie
Nov 4, 2019, 4:41 AM
How did we miss this milestone!

http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2019-10-28-WestJet-now-connecting-Vancouver-and-Cranbrook

WestJet link launched YVR-YXC last week and not even a mention?? Come on!

SpongeG
Nov 4, 2019, 4:52 AM
Icelandair doesn’t return same day. Their aircraft always sit overnight in order to better connect in KEF.

ok thanks. I see it quite often.

SpongeG
Nov 4, 2019, 4:52 AM
How did we miss this milestone!

http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2019-10-28-WestJet-now-connecting-Vancouver-and-Cranbrook

WestJet link launched YVR-YXC last week and not even a mention?? Come on!

I saw that plane yesterday, it's quite small.

Denscity
Nov 4, 2019, 4:53 AM
Did YXC lose many AC flights and are now getting some back with the mini Westjet Link?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 4, 2019, 5:01 AM
I saw that plane yesterday, it's quite small.

It’s the same as Pacific Coastal’s Saabs just painted in WS colours.

Did YXC lose many AC flights and are now getting some back with the mini Westjet Link?

AC pulled YYC-YXC but have maintained up to 3 daily YVR-YXC.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 4, 2019, 5:03 AM
Although published by an Australian group (Blue Swan Daily is published by CAPA) this was published last week and gives a good snapshot of Canada.

https://blueswandaily.com/country-insight-15-canada/

YVR has 3 of the top 10 domestic routes by capacity (YYZ, YYC and YEG)

YVR has 3 of the top 10 international routes by capacity (SEA, LAX and HKG)

This is for the week of 28 Oct so some of these routes would be subject to fluctuations of course.

Of course both lists dominated by Toronto.

Denscity
Nov 4, 2019, 6:09 AM
It’s the same as Pacific Coastal’s Saabs just painted in WS colours.



AC pulled YYC-YXC but have maintained up to 3 daily YVR-YXC.

Ah ok that's what we have with AC to YVR as well.
And no Westjet whatsoever.

whatnext
Nov 4, 2019, 7:48 PM
Hong Kong Airlines is struggling. Is there enough traffic trying to get money out of HK to keep them afloat?

Troubled Hong Kong Airlines to axe Los Angeles service and cut operations by 6 per cent under government pressure

Financially troubled Hong Kong Airlines is cutting back its operations, including axing its Los Angeles-bound flights, under pressure from the Hong Kong government.
The city’s third largest airline, backed by the indebted Chinese conglomerate HNA Group, said it would cut the number of flights by 6 per cent, or around 20, per week including cancelling the Los Angeles route from February 8 next year.

It also said it would continue to make changes on flights to Vancouver, Osaka, Okinawa, Sapporo, Tokyo Narita, Seoul, Haikou, Hangzhou, Nanjing and Bangkok....

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3036254/troubled-hong-kong-airlines-axe-los-angeles

Klazu
Nov 4, 2019, 10:16 PM
That's too bad about Hong Kong Airlines. Did they end up putting an A350 on the YVR route? Anyone taken the flight? Are they competitively priced Vs. Cathay Pacific and Air Canada?

Migrant_Coconut
Nov 5, 2019, 3:03 AM
Honestly, I didn't even know Hong Kong Air even existed until five minutes ago - AFAIK most people in the region fly Cathay or EVA.

nname
Nov 5, 2019, 6:31 AM
Seems like no one cares about YVR passenger data anymore?

September 2019

Domestic: 1,136,494 (+5.7%)

Transborder: 529,152 (+2.5%)
Asia Pacific: 374,264 (-1.1%)
Europe: 221,492 (-0.5%)
Misc: 41,994 (-12.8%)
International: 1,166,902 (+0.1%)

Total: 2,303,396 (+2.8%)


YTD 2019

Domestic: 9,666,132 (+1.7%)

Transborder: 4,970,949 (+1.6%)
Asia Pacific: 3,504,452 (+2.7%)
Europe: 1,465,968 (+0.6%)
Misc: 687,452 (-0.3%)
International: 10,628,821 (+1.7%)

Total: 20,294,953 (+1.7%)

Max.
Nov 5, 2019, 6:34 AM
That's too bad about Hong Kong Airlines. Did they end up putting an A350 on the YVR route? Anyone taken the flight? Are they competitively priced Vs. Cathay Pacific and Air Canada?

I fly HX80/81 three times this year. They have very competitively priced in business class, and they putted A359 on this route for a while. The problem of HX is they don't have enough business travellers, CP dominant in HK's business travellers market.

connect2source
Nov 5, 2019, 11:52 AM
Seems like no one cares about YVR passenger data anymore?

Haha, reminds me of the monthly real estate stats in my business, once things started going south, few agents posted them.

Nice little bump in domestic and transborder for September tho, Asia Pacific, no surprise there, at least we're up overall.

casper
Nov 5, 2019, 3:39 PM
Ah ok that's what we have with AC to YVR as well.
And no Westjet whatsoever.

WestJet contracts Pacific Costal to operate into that airport from both Vancouver and Calgary.

Denscity
Nov 5, 2019, 3:53 PM
WestJet contracts Pacific Costal to operate into that airport from both Vancouver and Calgary.

Yes true.
I wonder if our best situation would be for AC to continue our 3 daily YVR flights and some form of Westjet do our daily YYC?
Or better yet Link adds a flight to YLW from here.

nname
Nov 5, 2019, 4:26 PM
Yes true.
I wonder if our best situation would be for AC to continue our 3 daily YVR flights and some form of Westjet do our daily YYC?
Or better yet Link adds a flight to YLW from here.

AC had been running 2x daily DH4 since the conversion from 3x daily DH3 starting S19. AC8220 cancelled... and currently W19, S20, and W20 the route stays 2x daily, at least for now.

Right now there are 5x daily in total:
2x AC
1x WS op by 8P
2x 8P

Denscity
Nov 5, 2019, 4:43 PM
AC had been running 2x daily DH4 since the conversion from 3x daily DH3 starting S19. AC8220 cancelled... and currently W19, S20, and W20 the route stays 2x daily, at least for now.

Right now there are 5x daily in total:
2x AC
1x WS op by 8P
2x 8P

Right and AC also cancelled their flight(s) to YYC after Link was added.

nname
Nov 5, 2019, 5:21 PM
Well, I guess it's now official.

Vancouver added a new direct-flight destination this year.. :D

I wonder how would YVR put this route on their destination list or even attempt to draw it on the map :D

https://www.flyairnorth.com/DealsAndNews/News.aspx?newsID=72

LeftCoaster
Nov 7, 2019, 12:42 AM
Seems like no one cares about YVR passenger data anymore?

September 2019

Domestic: 1,136,494 (+5.7%)

Transborder: 529,152 (+2.5%)
Asia Pacific: 374,264 (-1.1%)
Europe: 221,492 (-0.5%)
Misc: 41,994 (-12.8%)
International: 1,166,902 (+0.1%)

Total: 2,303,396 (+2.8%)


YTD 2019

Domestic: 9,666,132 (+1.7%)

Transborder: 4,970,949 (+1.6%)
Asia Pacific: 3,504,452 (+2.7%)
Europe: 1,465,968 (+0.6%)
Misc: 687,452 (-0.3%)
International: 10,628,821 (+1.7%)

Total: 20,294,953 (+1.7%)

Despite how depressing it's become, I still do!

I was going to post it but you beat me to it. This is better than I expected, but still pretty dismal and a shade of what it should be given what the economy is doing right now.

Well, I guess it's now official.

Vancouver added a new direct-flight destination this year.. :D

I wonder how would YVR put this route on their destination list or even attempt to draw it on the map :D

https://www.flyairnorth.com/DealsAndNews/News.aspx?newsID=72

That's a weird one. the Naniamo leg seems so needless.

thebus
Nov 7, 2019, 1:15 AM
That's too bad about Hong Kong Airlines. Did they end up putting an A350 on the YVR route? Anyone taken the flight? Are they competitively priced Vs. Cathay Pacific and Air Canada?

We took HX to Hong Kong last spring. Their A350s are very nice and it was a good experience even in Economy. The price was really cheap too which helped our choice. Definitely recommend them.

SpongeG
Nov 11, 2019, 4:42 AM
Despite how depressing it's become, I still do!

I was going to post it but you beat me to it. This is better than I expected, but still pretty dismal and a shade of what it should be given what the economy is doing right now.



That's a weird one. the Naniamo leg seems so needless.

it gives nanaimo and islanders a direct flight to Kelowna which is great.

SpongeG
Nov 11, 2019, 4:46 AM
Air North introducing direct flights between Yellowknife and Vancouver in January

The flight will be offered twice a week, on Mondays and Fridays
CBC News · Posted: Nov 08, 2019

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/air-north-direct-flight-yellowknife-vancouver-1.5354043

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2019, 7:44 PM
Due to the ongoing Max grounding Westjet has added another daily flight to Hawaii in January. Departs at 1715 split 4pw to HNL and 3pw to OGG. Total 7 daily on WS YVR-Hawaii.

SpongeG
Nov 19, 2019, 9:10 PM
Turkish Airlines plans non-stop flights to Vancouver

Bureaucratic hurdle still needs to be overcome before flights can launch
By Glen Korstrom | November 18, 2019

https://biv.com/sites/default/files/styles/media_image/public/2019-11/taylantokmak-turkishconsulgeneral-rk.jpg?h=ae645269&itok=uoM-KxJH
Turkish Consul General Taylan Tokmak believes Turks will do more business in Vancouver if Turkish Airlines launches non-stop flights between Vancouver and Istanbul | Rob Kruyt

Turkish Airlines (IST:THYAO) has announced plans to fly non-stop between Istanbul and Vancouver, but a bureaucratic hurdle may keep the carrier from launching its desired route.

In mid-October, the airline posted a notice to the investor relations part of its website saying that it “has decided to start operating scheduled flights, based on market conditions, to Vancouver, Canada.”

The notice was a heads-up to investors, given that slightly more than half of the venture’s shares trade on the Borsa Istanbul stock exchange. The Turkish government holds the remainder.

...

The airline did not reveal a launch date for the route because it is not yet a done deal. Canada and Turkey must sign off on changes to a bilateral air-services agreement to enable domestic carriers to fly to three cities in the foreign country, up from two.

...

Air Canada, however, could spoil Turkish Airlines’ plans.

National carriers, such as Air Canada, have an almost veto-like power over changes to air-services agreements. In 2010, Air Canada stymied Emirates airline’s effort to get governments to change an air-services agreement to allow it to operate non-stop flights between Dubai and Vancouver. Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu explained to BIV in 2013 that his opposition was because he believed Emirates would pick up passengers from Canada and take them to third countries using Dubai as a stopover.

Air Canada also opposed Singapore Airlines’ (SGX:C6L) 2007 request to increase to daily its thrice-weekly flights between Singapore and Vancouver via Seoul, Korea, because Air Canada feared losing passengers.

That opposition prompted Ottawa to reject Singapore Airlines’ request for increased frequency, spurring the airline to stop flying out of Vancouver in April 2009.

...

“My understanding is that right now there is not a problem,” he told BIV. “They have sorted it out, the two companies [Air Canada and Turkish Airlines]; this is what my understanding is.”

He said a “high-level delegation” from Turkish Airlines met with Vancouver Airport Authority officials in October, and that there have been discussions around Turkish Airlines opening an office at Vancouver International Airport.

Airport officials told BIV that they welcome the proposed route because it is their role to connect B.C. to the world.

...

https://biv.com/article/2019/11/turkish-airlines-plans-non-stop-flights-vancouver

trofirhen
Nov 19, 2019, 9:31 PM
The potential veto by Air Canada to block Turkish from gaining YVR landing rights makes my blood boil.
Is it becuse TK to Vancouver will take away business from Air Canada? Air Canada dropped its flights from YYZ and YUL to IST, leaving the traffic to Turkish Airlines.
Air Canada works in co-operation with the GTAA, so the only reason I can think Air Canada would want to block this is either to get more people to trasit via YYZ, augmenting YYZ landing fees and obliging Vancouver - Istanbul bound passengers to to use Air Canada.
Air Canada naturally wants the largest market share it can get, so would anybody, but why does it, (and Transport Canada) block airlines from YVR? If anyone can provide a specific, precise answer, I'm all ears, and I'm sure a lot of other people are, too.
But if it is on routes not served by Air Canada - and Istanbul is not (neither is Singapore), then why? Some posters have claimed that it is the interests of "what is good for Canadians."
Regarding this latest instance, can anybody explain how blocking TK from YVR is "good" for Canadians. Which Canadians? Not YVR travellers. The Air Canada? YYZ? Does anyone have a coherent answer?
Tangentially, if the government has any concerns about increasing Western Canadian alienation, this is yet another coal on the fire to fuel that alienation and anger.

thenoflyzone
Nov 19, 2019, 10:25 PM
trofirhen,

this is gonna sting a bit, but it has to be said.

Are you unable to retain information that is posted on here? This is a legitimate question.

I say this because for the better part of a year (maybe even more), we have been talking about TK, why they want/can't serve YVR (at the moment), how it would affect Air Canada, etc etc. And yet, you still keep asking the same damn questions over and over and over and over again, expecting a different answer every time it seems. (That's the definition of insanity, btw)

Go back and read this very thread carefully. All the answers are there.

And western alienation? Really. Tying that in with TK unable (at the moment) to serve YVR is insane (see, I used that word again). When AC was blocking EK and EY from getting more landing rights in YYZ, was that eastern alienation then?

TK will most likely serve YVR in 2020. You can relax.

thenoflyzone
Nov 19, 2019, 10:32 PM
BIV reported in 2016 that the Vancouver Turkish Canadian Society (VTCA) launched a petition on Change.org, calling for an airline to launch the route. The petition closed with 1,549 supporters.

Wow. A whole 1,549 signatures ! I think a zero or two behind that number would look better.

Clearly illustrates the lack of interest for IST as a destination (O&D), and really shows what TK and the Turkish goverment (a major TK shareholder) are after. Connecting traffic. This is why AC doesn't play nice with these carriers. Whether people agree with AC's strategy, that is entirely a different matter.

(trofirhen, write this down if it will help you remember it in a few months)

trofirhen
Nov 20, 2019, 2:40 AM
deleted

casper
Nov 20, 2019, 9:34 AM
Wow. A whole 1,549 signatures ! I think a zero or two behind that number would look better.

Clearly illustrates the lack of interest for IST as a destination (O&D), and really shows what TK and the Turkish goverment (a major TK shareholder) are after. Connecting traffic. This is why AC doesn't play nice with these carriers. Whether people agree with AC's strategy, that is entirely a different matter.

(trofirhen, write this down if it will help you remember it in a few months)

Could be wrong but I don't think Air Canada has that much say in this.

The bigger issue in my mind would be the fact the Turkish military is invading a country. Justified or not. Leaving aside Trump, I don't think any western political leader wants to be seen signing a deal that expands trade or air services just now.

thenoflyzone
Nov 20, 2019, 1:57 PM
Could be wrong but I don't think Air Canada has that much say in this.

The bigger issue in my mind would be the fact the Turkish military is invading a country. Justified or not. Leaving aside Trump, I don't think any western political leader wants to be seen signing a deal that expands trade or air services just now.

Dont get me started on Turkey and its policies ! I am an Armenian Canadian after all. I dont hide my disdain for Turkey.

If it was up to me, Turkey and Canada would have no diplomatic relations. Period.

This being said, Trudeau will not be "seen" signing anything. These ATA's and their expansions are done behind closed doors, away from the public's eye and public scrutiny. In that regard, it wouldn't surprise me to see the bilateral ATA expanded and see TK at YVR in 2020.

Klazu
Nov 20, 2019, 3:07 PM
trofirhen, this is gonna sting a bit, but it has to be said. Are you unable to retain information that is posted on here? This is a legitimate question.

For once I agree with you as it is baffling to me as well. At least we have had a few months break from South America connections discussion...

twoNeurons
Nov 23, 2019, 12:51 AM
Wow. A whole 1,549 signatures ! I think a zero or two behind that number would look better.

Clearly illustrates the lack of interest for IST as a destination (O&D), and really shows what TK and the Turkish goverment (a major TK shareholder) are after. Connecting traffic. This is why AC doesn't play nice with these carriers. Whether people agree with AC's strategy, that is entirely a different matter.

(trofirhen, write this down if it will help you remember it in a few months)

To be fair... very few people go to Frankfurt as a destination... it's a Star Alliance Hub.

And I don't see a problem with Istanbul being a connecting hub for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. It's REALLY well positioned.

In fact, I recently connected to IST on my way to Singapore on an Aeroplan redemption. I had to fly through YUL but would welcome a direct flight. I'd probably choose to fly to Europe via Turkey as well.

YVR-IST-ROM is only 10% longer than YVR-YYZ-ROM
YVR-YYZ-VIE is only 5% longer via Istanbul.

https://i.imgur.com/jLXLb07.gif

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=YVR-YYZ-VIE,c:navy,VIE-IST-YVR,c:red&MS=wls&MX=540x540&PM=*&PC=%23ff0000&PW=4

I don't know about you... but considering Turkish Airlines has 4 daily flights to Vienna, I'd MUCH rather a long overnight in a lie-flat TK 787 followed by short European hop, than two medium 5-6 hour flights.

TK has a compelling product and Air Canada knows it will be hard to compete with its product. They also don't charge outrageous fees on award redemptions. YVR don't have ANY no-scamfee charge airlines to Europe. YYZ has TAP, LX, LOT, BR, TK...

Politics of Turkey aside, I welcome the airline with open arms.

thenoflyzone
Nov 23, 2019, 9:29 AM
To be fair... very few people go to Frankfurt as a destination... it's a Star Alliance Hub.

And I don't see a problem with Istanbul being a connecting hub for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. It's REALLY well positioned.

In fact, I recently connected to IST on my way to Singapore on an Aeroplan redemption. I had to fly through YUL but would welcome a direct flight. I'd probably choose to fly to Europe via Turkey as well.

YVR-IST-ROM is only 10% longer than YVR-YYZ-ROM
YVR-YYZ-VIE is only 5% longer via Istanbul.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=YVR-YYZ-VIE,c:navy,VIE-IST-YVR,c:red&MS=wls&MX=540x540&PM=*&PC=%23ff0000&PW=4

I don't know about you... but considering Turkish Airlines has 4 daily flights to Vienna, I'd MUCH rather a long overnight in a lie-flat TK 787 followed by short European hop, than two medium 5-6 hour flights.

TK has a compelling product and Air Canada knows it will be hard to compete with its product. They also don't charge outrageous fees on award redemptions. YVR don't have ANY no-scamfee charge airlines to Europe. YYZ has TAP, LX, LOT, BR, TK...

Politics of Turkey aside, I welcome the airline with open arms.

You make a few valid points. However,

1. FRA is the exception. All the other European hubs (save maybe AMS) have a decent amount of O&D to/from Canada, explaining the open skies agreement with the European Union. Also, people flying to FRA are also connecting to dozens of domestic destinations in Germany, and Canada-Germany O&D is far greater than Canada-Turkey.

At least on all your flights to FRA (except for DE), a Canadian company - which supports Canadian jobs - is getting revenue.

2. Air Canada's signature class is miles ahead of TK business class product on the B77W and A333 (which is what they use to YYZ and YUL). You have access to the signature class between YVR and both YYZ and YUL, as AC uses widebodies on these routes several times a day, so you can have end to end signature class service between YVR and VIE, which is better than what TK has to Canada, all the while flying on a Canadian company.

Granted, TK's new lie flat business class seats on their B789s and A350s will give AC a run for their money, but those aren't used on Canada flights at the moment. They soon will be though. However, I consider it to be on par with what AC mainline offers across the Atlantic.

3. The Canadian government doesn't care if you have easy access to a 700$ ticket to Europe, or if your local airport has access to airlines that have no surcharges on redemption flights. What they care about is fair competition (based on reciprocity and O&D) and protecting Canadian companies and jobs. If that means TK only has access to a certain number of weekly frequencies to Canada, then so be it.

This being said, I'll repeat what I wrote a few months ago. I think Canada should gradually give more frequencies to these countries. But it should be based on merit (as well as what I wrote in point #3 above). By flying TK, you're willingly or unwillingly financing the Turkish government, as they are a major stakeholder of TK, so yes, politics should play a role in these agreements as well. If the Turkish government is killing a minority group (in their country, or even worse, in another), then that shouldn't sit well with our government, and I'm glad it isn't (https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/canada-condemns-turkish-military-incursion-in-northern-syria-as-destabilizing). If that has an effect on the air transport agreement between our two countries, then so be it.

LO 044
Nov 25, 2019, 3:16 PM
3. The Canadian government doesn't care if you have easy access to a 700$ ticket to Europe, or if your local airport has access to airlines that have no surcharges on redemption flights. What they care about is fair competition (based on reciprocity and O&D) and protecting Canadian companies and jobs. If that means TK only has access to a certain number of weekly frequencies to Canada, then so be it.

This being said, I'll repeat what I wrote a few months ago. I think Canada should gradually give more frequencies to these countries. But it should be based on merit (as well as what I wrote in point #3 above). By flying TK, you're willingly or unwillingly financing the Turkish government, as they are a major stakeholder of TK, so yes, politics should play a role in these agreements as well. If the Turkish government is killing a minority group (in their country, or even worse, in another), then that shouldn't sit well with our government, and I'm glad it isn't (https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/canada-condemns-turkish-military-incursion-in-northern-syria-as-destabilizing). If that has an effect on the air transport agreement between our two countries, then so be it.
However, if you're going to play the "politics" card and "Canadian jobs" card then you might as well not allow any Chinese carriers access to Canada. You can't get any more recent news than this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50511063. Don't forget any flights to the middle east or even Poland and Hungary. See the list goes on and on depending on your perspective. You can send tanker traffic down the St. Lawrence but not the west coast? You can import oil from countries with horrendous (lack of) human rights but not support local oil that protects Canadian jobs?

See it goes on and on. Let YVR have it's Istanbul route and let people decide whether they will support it. I know it will take away traffic from AC, YUL and YYZ. While i appreciate your knowledge of the airline industry your comments almost always skew towards promoting and protecting YUL, AC and TS. If AC's product is on par or better than TK then the YVR-IST route will fail and AC can keep on connecting us through wherever.

thenoflyzone
Nov 25, 2019, 7:16 PM
However, if you're going to play the "politics" card and "Canadian jobs" card then you might as well not allow any Chinese carriers access to Canada.

I agree. Canada should ban Chinese carriers. Same with Saudi Arabia and other countries with human rights violations. BTW, Turkey is one of the global hot spots for human rights violations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/amnesty-ten-global-hotspots-for-major-human-rights-violations-in-2017.html

This being said, Canada-China O&D and import/export is far greater than what we have with Turkey. If you were to ban Chinese carriers from Canada, that would impact our economy on a far greater scale than doing it with Turkey. Also, YVR's international passenger numbers would crumble instantly.

I am glad Chinese carriers are maxed out of Canada and can't add anymore flights. At least our government seems to be holding firm in that regard.

You can send tanker traffic down the St. Lawrence but not the west coast?

Not familiar with this matter. The way you describe it, it seems like the provincial governments dictate what ships can pass through their waterways.

Always thought navigation and shipping was a federal subject matter.

You can import oil from countries with horrendous (lack of) human rights but not support local oil that protects Canadian jobs?


Quebec now imports nearly half of its oil from Alberta (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/11/13/news/guess-where-quebec-gets-its-oil). So we are supporting Alberta's oil industry. Tanker ships from Algeria and other oil rich countries is significantly down compared to previous years.

And there is already an Enbridge oil pipeline from Sarnia to Montreal (Line 9) (https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/pplctnflng/mjrpp/ln9brvrsl/index-eng.html) that ships Alberta crude all the way to Quebec. So honestly, this whole western alienation crap is a bit silly. With all due respect, Alberta needs to get over itself and diversify its economy already !

LO 044
Nov 25, 2019, 10:14 PM
I agree. Canada should ban Chinese carriers. Same with Saudi Arabia and other countries with human rights violations. BTW, Turkey is one of the global hot spots for human rights violations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/amnesty-ten-global-hotspots-for-major-human-rights-violations-in-2017.html

This being said, Canada-China O&D and import/export is far greater than what we have with Turkey. If you were to ban Chinese carriers from Canada, that would impact our economy on a far greater scale than doing it with Turkey. Also, YVR's international passenger numbers would crumble instantly.

I am glad Chinese carriers are maxed out of Canada and can't add anymore flights. At least our government seems to be holding firm in that regard.



Not familiar with this matter. The way you describe it, it seems like the provincial governments dictate what ships can pass through their waterways.

Always thought navigation and shipping was a federal subject matter.



Quebec now imports nearly half of its oil from Alberta (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/11/13/news/guess-where-quebec-gets-its-oil). So we are supporting Alberta's oil industry. Tanker ships from Algeria and other oil rich countries is significantly down compared to previous years.

And there is already an Enbridge oil pipeline from Sarnia to Montreal (Line 9) (https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/pplctnflng/mjrpp/ln9brvrsl/index-eng.html) that ships Alberta crude all the way to Quebec. So honestly, this whole western alienation crap is a bit silly. With all due respect, Alberta needs to get over itself and diversify its economy already !
This has nothing to do with alienation this has to do with morals. If you're going to use morals and "the right thing to do" to dictate your economic choices than do it across the board. Your statement "If you were to ban Chinese carriers from Canada, that would impact our economy on a far greater scale than doing it with Turkey." is a perfect example. Care about everyone's situation in the world not just the people that will create the least amount of impact on you. There is a double standard in this country.

Why don't you take on 100% of Alberta's oil? Then you can import from the US and say you are doing your part by not supporting regimes with human rights violations as hobbies. This is what people in Quebec don't get. They turn a blind eye to oil by rail, tanker traffic on the St. Lawrence that is coming from human rights abuse countries. BTW i see the propane issue is front and center now. No one is talking about keeping the natural gas in the ground in Quebec are they?

OK i'm done my venting lol. Sorry to hijack the YVR thread. What can i say i connect through YVR at times and it is a great airport.

nname
Nov 27, 2019, 9:01 AM
Seems like YVR-DEL ranked 4th in CX's top connecting market:

https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/25/top-20-connecting-routes-for-cathay-pacific-dubai-manila-1/

Hourglass
Nov 27, 2019, 11:02 AM
Seems like YVR-DEL ranked 4th in CX's top connecting market:

https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/25/top-20-connecting-routes-for-cathay-pacific-dubai-manila-1/

That doesn't surprise me in the least. My last few YVR-HKG flights on CX, it seems like at least 1/3 of all the passengers onboard were South Asians connecting via HKG to India.

It'd be interesting to find out how much of a dent -- if any -- AC's YVR-DEL nonstop affected these connecting passenger numbers. I suspect probably not so much of an impact as I'm guessing it's the more budget conscious passengers who would choose a connecting flight.

LeftCoaster
Nov 27, 2019, 10:04 PM
Wow. A whole 1,549 signatures ! I think a zero or two behind that number would look better.

Clearly illustrates the lack of interest for IST as a destination (O&D), and really shows what TK and the Turkish goverment (a major TK shareholder) are after. Connecting traffic. This is why AC doesn't play nice with these carriers. Whether people agree with AC's strategy, that is entirely a different matter.


I hardly think a failed change.org petition 'clearly illustrates' anything. I could start a change.org petition for something wildly popular, but if I only circulate it amongst small group it won't gain any traction. Things going viral is a pretty nuanced phenomenon.

I agree. Canada should ban Chinese carriers. Same with Saudi Arabia and other countries with human rights violations. BTW, Turkey is one of the global hot spots for human rights violations.


If we're to start banning flights based off human rights violations aviation is going to more or less shut down. Even the United States is walking a fine line with its internment of migrant children or drone strikes in the middle east.

That doesn't surprise me in the least. My last few YVR-HKG flights on CX, it seems like at least 1/3 of all the passengers onboard were South Asians connecting via HKG to India.

It'd be interesting to find out how much of a dent -- if any -- AC's YVR-DEL nonstop affected these connecting passenger numbers. I suspect probably not so much of an impact as I'm guessing it's the more budget conscious passengers who would choose a connecting flight.

HKG still pulls a lot of business traffic to India as well, since most Indian PAX are traveling onwards from Delhi so they require a transfer either way. A few of my friends travel to India about a dozen times a year in paid J and they always take Cathay through HKG because they are transferring to Hyderabad so a direct to Delhi doesn't do them much good.

hollywoodcory
Nov 28, 2019, 4:50 PM
HX has zeroed out all flights from December 9 for YVR-HKG.

LeftCoaster
Nov 28, 2019, 6:39 PM
Another one bites the dust. Unsurprising but another big blow to YVR.

Summer 2020 is looking like a really bad year, potential double digit international losses.

thenoflyzone
Nov 28, 2019, 8:05 PM
I hardly think a failed change.org petition 'clearly illustrates' anything. I could start a change.org petition for something wildly popular, but if I only circulate it amongst small group it won't gain any traction. Things going viral is a pretty nuanced phenomenon.

Pretty sure if I started my own change.org petition, I’d get more than 1500 signatures.

This being said, you are right. It’s not hard proof of anything.

This (https://www.anna.aero/2019/10/16/revealed-almost-34-million-passengers-connect-with-turkish-airlines/) is however. Coupled with the fact that during the last census, Turkish Canadians in Vancouver numbered less than 7,000, means VFR traffic simply isn’t there, which in turn means very little O&D from YVR to IST.

Another one bites the dust. Unsurprising but another big blow to YVR.

Summer 2020 is looking like a really bad year, potential double digit international losses.

Interjet isn’t too far behind. They owe US CBP $25 million, supposedly, and need to pay up by Dec 9, or else they can’t fly to the US anymore.

nname
Nov 28, 2019, 8:19 PM
Another one bites the dust. Unsurprising but another big blow to YVR.

Summer 2020 is looking like a really bad year, potential double digit international losses.

I wonder if HX will even last until Dec 9... It's just revealed that half of the employee wasn't getting paid last month...

LAX-HKG had been zeroed out starting from tomorrow, meaning that the HX69 in the air right now is likely to be the last flight to/from US.

Gordon
Nov 28, 2019, 8:34 PM
What other 2020 flights are being lost besides Hong kong airlines & the 3rd Cx flight

Sunday a new transborder holdroom opens for Remote Stand Opertions.

nname
Nov 28, 2019, 8:40 PM
What other 2020 flights are being lost besides Hong kong airlines & the 3rd Cx flight

Sunday a new transborder holdroom opens for Remote Stand Opertions.

LOSS:
2nd daily LHR on AC
4x weekly LGW on TS
3x weekly CDG on TS
1x weekly CDG on AC
4x weekly CUN on 4O
1x weekly CUN on TS

GAIN:
1x weekly AMS on TS
1x weekly KIX on AC
1x weekly DEL on AC
1x weekly LHR on WS
2x weekly PVR on TS

I may be missing quite a few... oh, and there are more downsizing than upsizes.

As for remote stands.. the East Apron site seems to be ready, but I doubt it will see much use in the near future. Maybe now the midnight departure slot will be busier than the early afternoon slots? At least they'll need to move those RON aircraft around next summer I think...

Alexcaban
Nov 28, 2019, 8:47 PM
LOSS:
2nd daily LHR on AC
4x weekly LGW on TS
3x weekly CDG on TS
1x weekly CDG on AC
4x weekly CUN on 4O
1x weekly CUN on TS

GAIN:
1x weekly AMS on TS
1x weekly KIX on AC
1x weekly DEL on AC
1x weekly LHR on WS

I may be missing quite a few... oh, and there are more downsizing than upsizes.

As for remote stands.. the East Apron site seems to be ready, but I doubt it will see much use in the near future. Maybe now the midnight departure slot will be busier than the early afternoon slots? At least they'll need to move those RON aircraft around next summer I think...

YVR-FRA on AC goes from 789 to 77W, pretty good increase in seats there.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2019, 10:18 PM
YVR-FRA on AC goes from 789 to 77W, pretty good increase in seats there.

The loss of the second daily LHR on AC is also being offset by adding a 77W Instead of the 788/789 combo and the WS up gauge to a 789 also helps offset the loss.

I guess the writing on the wall with HX. What a shitty time of year for this to happen now pax will have to scramble to find alternate flights. I’m doing to the BR route via TPE again this Xmas.

thenoflyzone
Nov 28, 2019, 11:12 PM
Chinese airlines lost $3.1 billion US dollars on international services in 2018.

SFUVancouver
Nov 28, 2019, 11:38 PM
Has anyone mentioned yet that Craig Richmond has announced his retirement (June 30, 2020)?

https://biv.com/article/2019/11/vancouver-airport-authority-ceo-craig-richmond-retire-mid-2020

swan_ch
Nov 29, 2019, 3:02 PM
HX had officially announced the last flight between HKG-YVR would be on Feb. 10,2020 (https://www.hongkongairlines.com/en_CA/media/detail?id=10005575087_269), shortly after the Chinese New Year(Jan. 25).

thenoflyzone
Nov 29, 2019, 3:21 PM
Has anyone mentioned yet that Craig Richmond has announced his retirement (June 30, 2020)?

https://biv.com/article/2019/11/vancouver-airport-authority-ceo-craig-richmond-retire-mid-2020

Good time to leave. YVR is going to stagnate for the next few years. Better to pass the torch onto someone else now.

Incidentally, GTAA CEO Howard Eng is also retiring next year. He will be replaced by Deborah Flint, a Hamilton native who is currently in charge of LAX and VNY with LAWA.

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/corporate/media/press-releases/2019-01-08

hollywoodcory
Nov 29, 2019, 5:14 PM
HX had officially announced the last flight between HKG-YVR would be on Feb. 10,2020 (https://www.hongkongairlines.com/en_CA/media/detail?id=10005575087_269), shortly after the Chinese New Year(Jan. 25).

Flights after December 9 are still not open for reservation. Don't think they'll last until February.

nname
Nov 29, 2019, 7:44 PM
Flights after December 9 are still not open for reservation.

There are... but limited service though. Some flights are still available in Jan and Feb. Probably a "temporary suspension" in Dec?

I wonder who would be brave enough to book those flights after the "service resumption" in January...

hollywoodcory
Nov 29, 2019, 9:05 PM
There are... but limited service though. Some flights are still available in Jan and Feb. Probably a "temporary suspension" in Dec?

I wonder who would be brave enough to book those flights after the "service resumption" in January...

Looks like its for Chinese New Year based on the dates they've reopened.

SpongeG
Nov 29, 2019, 9:31 PM
Hong Kong Airlines Announces The End Of Long Haul Flights
by Joanna Bailey
November 29, 2019

Hong Kong Airlines has today announced the closure of its last long haul route. Vancouver will no longer feature on its schedules from February 2020, and bookings will be closed from early December. This is the latest of many cuts to the struggling airline’s routes and comes amid worries from the Chinese government over the future viability of the carrier.

...

https://simpleflying.com/hong-kong-airlines-long-haul/

Hong Kong to allow airlines to keep airport slots despite cutting capacity

Reuters November 28, 2019

(Reuters) - Airlines that fly to and from Hong Kong will be able to keep their prized airport slots even if they temporarily cut capacity due to weak travel demand through March, according to the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department.

Many airlines, including flagship home carrier Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd, South African Airways and Malaysia’s AirAsia Group Bhd have cut flights to and from Hong Kong temporarily as a result of sometimes violent anti-government protests that have led to a sharp fall in tourist and business travel demand.

More than 5,800 people have been arrested since the unrest broke out in June over a proposal to allow extraditions to mainland China, the numbers grew in October and November as violence escalated.

...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-airport/hong-kong-to-allow-airlines-to-keep-airport-slots-despite-cutting-capacity-idUSKBN1Y229C

United Airlines Cuts More Hong Kong Flights

by Mark Finlay
November 26, 2019

Chicago based United Airlines has decided to cut its capacity on flights to Hong Kong due to the on-going protests in the former British Colony. The increasingly violent civil unrest, now into its fifth month, has led to thousands of people either deferring travel to Hong Kong or canceling their trips altogether.

...

https://simpleflying.com/united-airlines-hong-kong-2/

Gordon
Nov 30, 2019, 7:18 PM
With the demise of HX , will there be an opportunity for capacity increases to Hong Kong when things return to a more normal situation?

What ws the capacity usage to Hong Kong?

casper
Nov 30, 2019, 8:45 PM
With the demise of HX , will there be an opportunity for capacity increases to Hong Kong when things return to a more normal situation?

What ws the capacity usage to Hong Kong?

Hong Kong will not return to the "old normal". It was in this weird half in/half out state within China. My prediction is that balance can not be maintained. It will either shift to being fully integrated into China or become independent like Taiwan. Just not certain which way it is going to go or how many lives will be lost in the transition.

Honk Kong was a good airport for onward connections. I think a lot of that connecting traffic is now going through Taipei, Tokyo/Narita or South Korea.