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nname
Jun 27, 2019, 8:55 PM
As it stands now, and with Air Canada's increase to Mexico, YVR-Mexico/Central America/Caribbean flights will increase to 101 weekly flights this winter.

So far it's

AC 30
WS 22
WG 16
AM 15
TS 10
4O 8

AM is now at least 16 for the bulk of the winter season (until Mar 28), with a peak of up to 21 during Christmas season.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 27, 2019, 10:28 PM
AM is now at least 16 for the bulk of the winter season (until Mar 28), with a peak of up to 21 during Christmas season.

By George you're right!

Well let's say 102 then as the peak is only for a few weeks!

First time over 100 anyway!

s211
Jun 27, 2019, 10:29 PM
An Air Canada question, if I may, for the experts in the crowd.

Why does AC seem to only fly Jazz-branded cigar tubes between Chicago and Vancouver? They're just the most painful things out there. Can't AC even put a 737 or 320 on that flight, or is perhaps the MAX issue to blame?

Just curious, because I'm about to ditch AC for United if this keep up, even if United is measurably more expensive.

nname
Jun 28, 2019, 1:03 AM
An Air Canada question, if I may, for the experts in the crowd.

Why does AC seem to only fly Jazz-branded cigar tubes between Chicago and Vancouver? They're just the most painful things out there. Can't AC even put a 737 or 320 on that flight, or is perhaps the MAX issue to blame?

Just curious, because I'm about to ditch AC for United if this keep up, even if United is measurably more expensive.

Maybe 2x 320 is too much capacity?

YVR-ORD is one of the route planned for C-Series A220 according to one presentation.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 28, 2019, 1:40 AM
YVR to become Flair's second busiest base this winter with a whopping 25 flights per week! Hub status!!

https://westernaviationnews.com/2019/06/27/flair-air-modest-winter-schedule-canada-2019-2020/

Love this quote...

"While Flair’s overall schedule will be far smaller than Swoop’s – 124 weekly flights compared to 252 – since all its flying will be domestic, Flair will actually be the larger domestic ultra low-cost carrier. Swoop, having been stung by poor loads last winter on its Canadian routes, will shift capacity to sun destinations for the winter."

So let's see.. Swoop got screwed on domestic routes last winter and Flair got screwed on Transborder routes last winter... they're swapping strategies! Flair goes domestic and Swoop goes Transborder/Mexico!

TBH Flair putting its eggs into the domestic basket during the Canadian winter is not a recipe for success. Not much of a choice I guess considering the disaster from last winter but damned if you do damned if you don't I suppose.

nname
Jun 28, 2019, 3:17 AM
YVR to become Flair's second busiest base this winter with a whopping 25 flights per week! Hub status!!

https://westernaviationnews.com/2019/06/27/flair-air-modest-winter-schedule-canada-2019-2020/


Seems like Flair's winter schedule out of YVR will be mostly the same as summer.

Daily YVR-YYZ
Daily YVR-YEG-YYZ
6x weekly YVR-YYC-YYZ
1x weekly YVR-YYC
4x weekly YVR-YEG

I see more than 18 out of YYZ though (that's already 20x weekly from the ones listed above)


So let's see.. Swoop got screwed on domestic routes last winter and Flair got screwed on Transborder routes last winter... they're swapping strategies! Flair goes domestic and Swoop goes Transborder/Mexico!

Well, Swoop's domestic routes are from YXX, YHM, YXU, whereas Flair fly out of YVR, YYC, YYZ... not exactly the same...?

Johnny Aussie
Jun 28, 2019, 3:35 AM
Seems like Flair's winter schedule out of YVR will be mostly the same as summer.

Daily YVR-YYZ
Daily YVR-YEG-YYZ
6x weekly YVR-YYC-YYZ
1x weekly YVR-YYC
4x weekly YVR-YEG

I see more than 18 out of YYZ though (that's already 20x weekly from the ones listed above)




Well, Swoop's domestic routes are from YXX, YHM, YXU, whereas Flair fly out of YVR, YYC, YYZ... not exactly the same...?

Yes, but Domestic in Canada is not known to be profitable regardless where you fly your metal. But after last year's fiasco guess they don't have much choice. Maybe they'll get it right eventually.

s211
Jun 28, 2019, 4:36 AM
Maybe 2x 320 is too much capacity?

YVR-ORD is one of the route planned for C-Series A220 according to one presentation.

IIRC, United flies a 320 4 times a day out of Vancouver.

nname
Jun 28, 2019, 5:48 AM
IIRC, United flies a 320 4 times a day out of Vancouver.

And UA wouldn't want to give up one of the daily for AC even though they forms JV. The same applies to UA for DEN, LH for FRA, and probably NZ for AKL in the future.

CareerShow
Jun 28, 2019, 1:10 PM
An Air Canada question, if I may, for the experts in the crowd.

Why does AC seem to only fly Jazz-branded cigar tubes between Chicago and Vancouver? They're just the most painful things out there. Can't AC even put a 737 or 320 on that flight, or is perhaps the MAX issue to blame?

Just curious, because I'm about to ditch AC for United if this keep up, even if United is measurably more expensive.

It’s a good question....same goes for Dallas! I remember ac started out with an a320 on the route as well.....

thenoflyzone
Jun 28, 2019, 3:07 PM
It’s a good question....same goes for Dallas! I remember ac started out with an a320 on the route as well.....

Mainline A320s are too big, E190s are on their way out, and E175s have restrictions over the Rockies.

It's either CRJ or nothing, until the CSeries comes.

Simple really.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 28, 2019, 7:06 PM
It’s a good question....same goes for Dallas! I remember ac started out with an a320 on the route as well.....

DFW was never mainline. ORD started with a single daily 319 but they opted to go double daily with CR9s.

I guess the 220s can’t come quickly enough!

madog222
Jun 29, 2019, 4:57 AM
Pier D progress as of June 25, my pictures.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48149022091_b17664545c_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48149110312_261b80e5a3_c.jpg

trofirhen
Jun 29, 2019, 7:44 AM
By the time that's finished, let's hope we have a few major new destinations, and maybe a couple of new foreign airlines. Exciting times ahead for YVR. Interesting pictures, thanks.

zahav
Jun 29, 2019, 10:10 PM
YVR is renumbering the international/transborder gates again on Sep. 10th, in advance of the new terminal expansion. There will be more remote stands from the new expansion too. Basically no change from D50-55 but from there it will now be full sequential and not skip numbers

trofirhen
Jun 30, 2019, 4:24 AM
YVR is renumbering the international/transborder gates again on Sep. 10th, in advance of the new terminal expansion. There will be more remote stands from the new expansion too. Basically no change from D50-55 but from there it will now be full sequential and not skip numbers
Interesting, thank you. / Do you know how many gates YVR currently has? it's numbered up into the mid-90 range, including the "Seattle satellite."
But in fact, if as you say, numbers have been skipped, the real number of gates is lower. if someone asked me how many gates YVR had, what would be the precise response?:)

YYCguys
Jun 30, 2019, 5:19 AM
Why are numbers currently being skipped?

nname
Jun 30, 2019, 5:29 AM
Why are numbers currently being skipped?

Current gates:

50, 51, 52
53, 54, 55, 56*, 57*, 58, (59), (60)
62
64, 65, 66, 67, 70, 71, 73, 75, 76, 77
78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85*, 86, 87, 88
90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96

* = remote stands
() = formerly used for remote stands but no longer used this year

Langdon0630
Jun 30, 2019, 3:55 PM
AA cancels YVR - ORD and - PHX as of Sept 4 / Nov 21, 2019.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1425983&sid=435a52c788d2f76b6065a55764123d72

OMG what is happening with AA? IIRC AA was twice daily to PHX last winter.

s211
Jun 30, 2019, 4:20 PM
AA cancels YVR - ORD and - PHX as of Sept 4 / Nov 21, 2019.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1425983&sid=435a52c788d2f76b6065a55764123d72

OMG what is happening with AA? IIRC AA was twice daily to PHX last winter.

Over on the Calgary thread, it's reported AA is going daily to ORD. I wonder if they've reallocated that plane.

hollywoodcory
Jun 30, 2019, 4:33 PM
Over on the Calgary thread, it's reported AA is going daily to ORD. I wonder if they've reallocated that plane.

YYC-ORD is already daily, just a seasonal extension. Also isn’t YVR-ORD mainline? YYC is on American Eagle E75.

CareerShow
Jul 1, 2019, 10:01 AM
DFW was never mainline. ORD started with a single daily 319 but they opted to go double daily with CR9s.

I guess the 220s can’t come quickly enough!

Yes sorry I was referring to ord. Dallas must be a torturous journey on the CR9!

whatnext
Jul 1, 2019, 4:15 PM
YYC-ORD is already daily, just a seasonal extension. Also isn’t YVR-ORD mainline? YYC is on American Eagle E75.

Jazz does YVR-ORD. The CR9 has plenty of legroom and IFE so not bad for long flights.

s211
Jul 1, 2019, 6:19 PM
Jazz does YVR-ORD. The CR9 has plenty of legroom and IFE so not bad for long flights.

I fly that tin can / cigar tube route and it's a dire slog to experience. AC ought to be ashamed flying that thing on that route.

trofirhen
Jul 1, 2019, 10:38 PM
I fly that tin can / cigar tube route and it's a dire slog to experience. AC ought to be ashamed flying that thing on that route.
I've never flown in that type of plane, so please excuse my curiosity. What precisely do you not like about the plane? Narrow seats? Noise? And what about inflight service? thx:)

s211
Jul 2, 2019, 4:15 AM
I've never flown in that type of plane, so please excuse my curiosity. What precisely do you not like about the plane? Narrow seats? Noise? And what about inflight service? thx:)

What don't I like? If you're more than six feet tall, you have to hunch when standing in the aisle. I've seen taller people have a difficult time fitting in the washrooms, literally having to back into the unit. Seats? Bush league. I've been on more than one flight where they had to redistribute the seating to balance out the plane.

Worst? In business, you'll be lucky to find room for more than one bag. One side of the aisle has zero storage above.

And I've only flown business on those planes. I'd die if I flew steerage in one of those things for a 4+ hour flight.

casper
Jul 2, 2019, 5:33 AM
What don't I like? If you're more than six feet tall, you have to hunch when standing in the aisle. I've seen taller people have a difficult time fitting in the washrooms, literally having to back into the unit. Seats? Bush league. I've been on more than one flight where they had to redistribute the seating to balance out the plane.

Worst? In business, you'll be lucky to find room for more than one bag. One side of the aisle has zero storage above.

And I've only flown business on those planes. I'd die if I flew steerage in one of those things for a 4+ hour flight.

When I lived in Saskatoon on the first routes to get these aircraft was Saskatoon <-> Toronto. Major improvement over the A320 where they frequently would do Toronto-Regina-Saskatoon-Toronto routing.

For years they the union contact Air Canada limited the number of seats operated by regional to 75. There were aircraft design for 90 or so. More leg room than any other aircraft in the fleet. However, the union finally let them put more seats in these birds. Now they are just as tight as any other AC aircraft and now they are to be a avoided.

Hourglass
Jul 2, 2019, 8:31 AM
Massive queues at security for international departures on evening of June 29. Felt like I was at LGA. Wonder if YVR has any plans to install automatic gates like at Singapore or Hong Kong.

On another note, saw a report on CAPA that YVR and LIM met to discuss direct links: https://centreforaviation.com/news/vancouver-airport-and-lima-airport-meet-to-discuss-direct-connectivity-for-2h2020-915355. I’m not sure anything will come of it, but it sure would be nice to see LATAM at YVR.

trofirhen
Jul 2, 2019, 11:00 PM
Massive queues at security for international departures on evening of June 29. Felt like I was at LGA. Wonder if YVR has any plans to install automatic gates like at Singapore or Hong Kong.

On another note, saw a report on CAPA that YVR and LIM met to discuss direct links: https://centreforaviation.com/news/vancouver-airport-and-lima-airport-meet-to-discuss-direct-connectivity-for-2h2020-915355. I’m not sure anything will come of it, but it sure would be nice to see LATAM at YVR.
I thought LATAM was Brazil, and LAN PERU was Peru. Oh well, in either case, a connection to South America would be fantastic. YVR would be a 5-continent airport!

teriyaki
Jul 3, 2019, 1:54 AM
Haven't been following aircraft scheduling that closely. Just saw that the Lufthansa flight to Munich today was on an A340-600. Possibly my first time seeing the 600 series at YVR. Is this a one off or scheduled equipment for YVR.

whatnext
Jul 3, 2019, 1:57 AM
Haven't been following aircraft scheduling that closely. Just saw that the Lufthansa flight to Munich today was on an A340-600. Possibly my first time seeing the 600 series at YVR. Is this a one off or scheduled equipment for YVR.

That's what a/c I'm scheduled to be on later this summer. :)

casper
Jul 3, 2019, 3:59 PM
That's what a/c I'm scheduled to be on later this summer. :)

If your in Economy the neat thing about that aircraft is the washrooms that are located downstairs.

When Air Canada had the smaller A340 in the fleet there one of my favorites as they were very quiet to be on. Sadly they did not stick around in the AC fleet for very long.

trofirhen
Jul 3, 2019, 5:43 PM
If your in Economy the neat thing about that aircraft is the washrooms that are located downstairs.

When Air Canada had the smaller A340 in the fleet there one of my favorites as they were very quiet to be on. Sadly they did not stick around in the AC fleet for very long.
I took a trip back to Vancouver some years ago on a Lufthansa A340, and found those downstairs washrooms one of the nicest features on the plane.
They are discreet, and one doesn't have the embarassment (call it what you will) of everyone seeing you in the lineup, especially after meal times.;)

nname
Jul 4, 2019, 12:59 AM
AA cancels YVR - ORD and - PHX as of Sept 4 / Nov 21, 2019.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1425983&sid=435a52c788d2f76b6065a55764123d72

OMG what is happening with AA? IIRC AA was twice daily to PHX last winter.

Both routes are now seasonal and will resume June 2020

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-suspends-first-route-due-to-737-max-grounding/

And now I'm wonder if AC will step in and upgauge their flights... Seems like AC had been steadily taking away market shares from all these routes...

Gordon
Jul 4, 2019, 5:17 AM
would it not make more sense foir Phx to be seasonal in the winter?

zahav
Jul 5, 2019, 7:17 AM
May stats are posted. I am too lazy to post but the results were very meh, kind of expected. Transborder actually was done YOY which I was kind of surprised by. Max grounding to blame or?

LeftCoaster
Jul 5, 2019, 7:07 PM
Terrible numbers for May, possibly the worst since I've been keeping track for several years now:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2019/05-may/maytrafficupdate.pdf?la=en

Overall up 1.8% to 2,186,452
Domestic up 1.2% to 1,071,882
International up 2.4% to 1,114,570

International breakdown
Transborder down 1.1%
Asia Pacific up 7.8%
Europe up 3.1%
Misc intl down 1.6%

YTD overall up 2.8% to 10.3 million
YTD Domestic up 2.1% to 4.9 million
YTD Intl up 3.4% to 5.4 million

I am very surprised by some of these numbers, in particular:

- Paltry domestic growth: Given the strong economy in Vancouver right now this is very surprising
- Loss in transborder: This is even more surprising given the economy, tourism numbers, and record number of cruise ships this season
- Asia Pacific Gains: Another shocker, but to the good this time. With the drawdowns in Asia seats I expected a drop here. I guess loads must be improving big time.

Hopefully the rest of the summer is a bit better than this, however I don't expect it will be.

trofirhen
Jul 5, 2019, 8:39 PM
^ Do you have any idea why growth has slowed so much this year?

nname
Jul 5, 2019, 9:47 PM
- Paltry domestic growth: Given the strong economy in Vancouver right now this is very surprising
- Loss in transborder: This is even more surprising given the economy, tourism numbers, and record number of cruise ships this season
- Asia Pacific Gains: Another shocker, but to the good this time. With the drawdowns in Asia seats I expected a drop here. I guess loads must be improving big time.

Hopefully the rest of the summer is a bit better than this, however I don't expect it will be.

Asia Pacific - Maybe cause by AC routing DEL traffic through YVR due to airspace closure?
Transborder - MAX may have at least affect the number a bit. Hawaii is the hardest hit out of YVR for AC, as well as SFO and LAX I think it all reduced by once daily due to MAX grounding.
Domestic - Maybe YXX takes away some of the traffic..?


Well, it seems like Air North is planning to add scheduled service to Nanaimo and Watson Lake as early as September. Maybe that'll boost the domestic number a bit? :D
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/business/air-north-starts-up-non-stop-flights-from-nanaimo-to-kelowna/

Currently Air North already operates weekly direct charter to YQH out of YVR with 3 stops via YCD, YLW, and YXS.

SpongeG
Jul 5, 2019, 10:00 PM
I think the MAX is a big reason. Also with all waht is going on with China, probably a lot less people wanting to do business with them and them with us.

Alexcaban
Jul 5, 2019, 11:36 PM
I think the MAX is a big reason. Also with all waht is going on with China, probably a lot less people wanting to do business with them and them with us.

The MAX is not to blame, AC has had everything covered since April.

nname
Jul 5, 2019, 11:56 PM
The MAX is not to blame, AC has had everything covered since April.

"covered" also means reduction in service. There is just no last minute cancellation.

YVR-YYZ, YYC, YEG, YUL, YOW, LAX, SFO, HNL, OGG, ANC, BOS, LAS all received service reduction at some point of time on or after May, compared to the original schedule planned for S19.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 6, 2019, 3:03 AM
"covered" also means reduction in service. There is just no last minute cancellation.

YVR-YYZ, YYC, YEG, YUL, YOW, LAX, SFO, HNL, OGG, ANC, BOS, LAS all received service reduction at some point of time on or after May, compared to the original schedule planned for S19.

I agree the Max grounding definitely having an effect.

Eg AC reduced YVR-LAS to one daily from two daily rouge. That reduces 136 daily departing seats from the market.

Look at the May results more closely and put it in perspective.

The May Transborder result is a reduction of only 90 departing passengers per day. Not taking anything else into account, that one reduction on YVR-LAS, which is a direct result of the grounding, removed more seats than the actual reduction in passengers carried.

Voila.

zahav
Jul 6, 2019, 3:41 AM
I wasn't expecting Domestic to grow much, the MAX effect was almost more with domestic since a lot of the aircraft changes/swaps affected domestic flights (YYC, YEG, YYZ, YUL all saw major modifications from the MAX grounding). Transborder is the one that surprised me, especially since it was holding up well and had a decent April. Maybe is just a blip

thenoflyzone
Jul 8, 2019, 12:50 AM
I fly that tin can / cigar tube route and it's a dire slog to experience. AC ought to be ashamed flying that thing on that route.

LOL.

Why would they? They just pushed AA to drop YVR-ORD/PHX to seasonal, specifically because they serve both routes with the CRJ and AA won't or most likely can't. (regional scope clauses)

AA dropped both routes because they underperformed (https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-suspends-first-route-due-to-737-max-grounding/). The cost of operating a Jazz CRJ is much less than a mainline AA B738 or A319. This is why AC is consistently the lowest fare on YVR-ORD.

yes, they should be ashamed all right....:koko:

AC is laughing all the way to the bank with the CRJs on these mid-haul runs.

Terrible numbers for May, possibly the worst since I've been keeping track for several years now:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2019/05-may/maytrafficupdate.pdf?la=en

Overall up 1.8% to 2,186,452
Domestic up 1.2% to 1,071,882
International up 2.4% to 1,114,570

International breakdown
Transborder down 1.1%
Asia Pacific up 7.8%
Europe up 3.1%
Misc intl down 1.6%

YTD overall up 2.8% to 10.3 million
YTD Domestic up 2.1% to 4.9 million
YTD Intl up 3.4% to 5.4 million

I am very surprised by some of these numbers, in particular:

- Paltry domestic growth: Given the strong economy in Vancouver right now this is very surprising
- Loss in transborder: This is even more surprising given the economy, tourism numbers, and record number of cruise ships this season
- Asia Pacific Gains: Another shocker, but to the good this time. With the drawdowns in Asia seats I expected a drop here. I guess loads must be improving big time.

Hopefully the rest of the summer is a bit better than this, however I don't expect it will be.

Asia pac if pretty impressive, all things considered.

The poor results in May are partly due to the Max and partly due to the fact that YVR's growth is slowing down since the end of last year. Simply comparing YVR numbers to that of YYZ, YUL or even YYC makes this fact crystal clear. Even the overall international numbers for North America's busiest that I post monthly on the Canada airport page illustrate this.

thenoflyzone
Jul 9, 2019, 4:16 AM
SQ to codeshare with Alaska Airlines from SEA to YVR/YYJ/YYC/YEG in September, when SQ begin their non stop SIN-SEA.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285276/singapore-airlines-alaska-airlines-expands-codeshare-service-from-sep-2019/

SQ already codeshares with AC out of YVR to NRT/LAX/SFO/ICN.

casper
Jul 10, 2019, 5:12 AM
SQ to codeshare with Alaska Airlines from SEA to YVR/YYJ/YYC/YEG in September, when SQ begin their non stop SIN-SEA.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285276/singapore-airlines-alaska-airlines-expands-codeshare-service-from-sep-2019/

SQ already codeshares with AC out of YVR to NRT/LAX/SFO/ICN.

SQ and AC not playing nice! You don't say. But they are both in Star Alliance.

Hourglass
Jul 10, 2019, 5:39 AM
SQ and AC not playing nice! You don't say. But they are both in Star Alliance.

There's rumoured bad blood dating back to the days when SQ flew to Toronto and then suspended its flights after AC complained...

Being in the same alliance doesn't really matter. QF tried to launch an airline in Hong Kong to compete with CX, another OneWorld airline.

osirisboy
Jul 10, 2019, 3:56 PM
that's not bad blood. Makes it sound like they take it personally. That's just business. Unless the airlines are run by a bunch of teenage girls that hold on to grudges

Hourglass
Jul 10, 2019, 10:33 PM
that's not bad blood. Makes it sound like they take it personally. That's just business. Unless the airlines are run by a bunch of teenage girls that hold on to grudges

Replace “teenage girls” with “human beings” and that’s closer to the truth. You can search online yourself about AC/SQ and CX/QF tensions. Here’s an example of the discussions around QF/CX: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20426091#p20426091. Whether it’s more than imaginings by armchair aviation enthusiasts I couldn’t say.

osirisboy
Jul 10, 2019, 11:14 PM
Teenage girls is way more apt

thenoflyzone
Jul 12, 2019, 7:36 PM
In the 90s, SQ was in its third decade of operation, and was trying to do what EK/QR/TK are doing now. Trying to expand and become a global airline. There were objections along the way, and not just from Canada.

This article (https://www.joc.com/sia-blasts-canada-blocking-toronto-route_19910827.html) describes well what happened.

This one (https://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/23/business/worldbusiness/IHT-growing-pains-at-singapore-airlines-carriers.html) shows that other (regional) countries were having similar objections with SQ back in the 90s.

EK has been facing similar issues from the US3 and Canada in their 3rd and now 4th decade of operations.

They fly ATH-EWR, and rumor has it they want to launch DXB-Prague-US service. The results are going to be the same. If the route is launched, DL/UA/AA will cry foul and hope the government does something about it.

Fifth freedom flights will always attract the attention of the home carrier on either end. It's the name of the game. SQ shouldn't take it personally, and I'm sure they dont. Much of the execs in charge at SQ now were only infants back in the 90s. That stuff is history. With ULR planes and non stops SIN-YVR/YYZ more than doable today, if SQ wanted to serve either city, they could launch it tomorrow.

In reality, even if the Canadian government hadn't revoked SQ rights to fly SIN-AMS/VIE-YYZ, chances are those routes would have been terminated long ago anyways.

SIN-ICN-YVR was canceled in 2009 because it wasn't meeting expectations (the fact that the economy was tanking didn't help). YYZ would have suffered a similar fate.

nname
Jul 13, 2019, 1:16 AM
SIN-ICN-YVR was canceled in 2009 because it wasn't meeting expectations (the fact that the economy was tanking didn't help). YYZ would have suffered a similar fate.

I remember it was SQ who wanted the ICN-YVR to go daily, but both Canada and Korea said no?

casper
Jul 13, 2019, 6:10 AM
I remember it was SQ who wanted the ICN-YVR to go daily, but both Canada and Korea said no?

I believe the Canadian perspective was your more than welcome to do SIN-YVR daily if you want to.

All said, it is interesting that they are code-sharing on Alaska but not on Air Canada for Seattle to Vancouver and Calgary.

nname
Jul 13, 2019, 10:48 AM
Seems like it's the time of the year when AF and TN applies for extra-bilateral service to operate service from Canada to Tahiti via US. However, I've noticed something new this year:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2019-131

Now for the first time in all the years I've checked, AF is specifically asking for the license to operate on Route 3.

Am I looking at it too much? :D

YYCguys
Jul 13, 2019, 12:36 PM
What’s “Route 3”?

trofirhen
Jul 13, 2019, 4:43 PM
Reading further into the document, it seems that they (AF) want to fly Canada - French Polynesia, via intermediate stops in the USA. Or am I wrong?

vanlaw
Jul 13, 2019, 5:50 PM
What’s “Route 3”?

Looks like Route 3 is YVR-PPT

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2016/amc-gac/E3-1982-7.pdf

YYCguys
Jul 13, 2019, 7:09 PM
YVR -PPT would be fantastic! I’ve already been to PPT once via LAX on AF but if they will do it from YVR, I’d go back in a heartbeat!

nname
Jul 13, 2019, 8:34 PM
Reading further into the document, it seems that they (AF) want to fly Canada - French Polynesia, via intermediate stops in the USA. Or am I wrong?

That would be this one:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2019-132

Which AF had applied every year for at least the past 7 years. However, this is the first time I've seen they filed a separate application to operate "Route 3" though. Would it be different this year, or it's just the process changed?

thenoflyzone
Jul 14, 2019, 1:07 AM
Interesting development. AF needs to get creative with PPT. It's a loss making route. Has been for decades. And with the arrival of UA on SFO-PPT, as well as low cost carrier French Bee on ORY-SFO-PPT, fares and yields are down between Europe-PPT and US-PPT.

Canada-PPT has no non-stop, so this new flight could inject some much needed life into AF's PPT operations, with improved yields.

Let's see what happens. Winter 2019-2020 launch could very well be likely. Will be an uphill battle for AF, that's for sure. They will need to rely on WestJet to give them adequate feed from the rest of Canada, as YVR-PPT O&D alone isn't enough to sustain the flight.

If this doesn't work, next step would be to cut PPT entirely, and leave it to their JV partner Air Tahiti Nui, which btw, hasn't been profitable for one single year of their existence.

AF has already considered cutting PPT entirely, back in 2013.

casper
Jul 14, 2019, 3:27 AM
Interesting development. AF needs to get creative with PPT. It's a loss making route. Has been for decades. And with the arrival of UA on SFO-PPT, as well as low cost carrier French Bee on ORY-SFO-PPT, fares and yields are down between Europe-PPT and US-PPT.

Canada-PPT has no non-stop, so this new flight could inject some much needed life into AF's PPT operations, with improved yields.

Let's see what happens. Winter 2019-2020 launch could very well be likely. Will be an uphill battle for AF, that's for sure. They will need to rely on WestJet to give them adequate feed from the rest of Canada, as YVR-PPT O&D alone isn't enough to sustain the flight.

If this doesn't work, next step would be to cut PPT entirely, and leave it to their JV partner Air Tahiti Nui, which btw, hasn't been profitable for one single year of their existence.

AF has already considered cutting PPT entirely, back in 2013.

Sounds like the logical next step would be the move the existing flight from LAX to YVR. How are the facilities at LAX for continuing passengers. YVR might make for a smother connection.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 14, 2019, 4:25 AM
Sounds like the logical next step would be the move the existing flight from LAX to YVR. How are the facilities at LAX for continuing passengers. YVR might make for a smother connection.

A fascinating development.

Very possible.... with UA’s launch perhaps they are losing too much feed to SFO from LAX.

Could also help support the YVR-CDG route to daily in the summer and support it in the winter. Connecting a French overseas territory to France I’m assuming this would be subsidised anyway.

thenoflyzone
Jul 14, 2019, 1:58 PM
How are the facilities at LAX for continuing passengers. YVR might make for a smother connection.

You need to clear customs at TBIT, so pretty crappy I would say. LAX customs is a disaster at the best of times. To be expected, as it's the world's busiest O&D airport, meaning a fair chunk of passengers need to clear customs.

YVR will offer a far superior experience for transit passengers.

That being said, AF is only 3x weekly LAX-PPT, so it's not that many passengers doing CDG-PPT to begin with.

Sounds like the logical next step would be the move the existing flight from LAX to YVR. I dont think they will exit LAX-PPT when/if they start YVR. The O&D is far greater there than in YVR, and DL gives them excellent feed from the rest of the country.

Also, I believe the Air France-Air Tahiti joint venture I was referring to above was rejected by the US DOT (and even it wasn't, it would have only covered the LAX-CDG leg). So AF needs to maintain a foothold on LAX-PPT alongside a potential YVR-PPT.

I can see them keeping LAX-PPT 2 or 3x weekly, and launching 1 or 2x weekly YVR-PPT.

If AF exits LAX-PPT, its because they've given up on French Polynesia altogether.

Klazu
Jul 14, 2019, 3:25 PM
YVR will offer a far superior experience for transit passengers.

Did you just... say something positive about YVR??? Wow. You're sure it's not YUL that is the superior one? I cannot believe what I am reading here.

Interesting development regarding Tahiti as the topic has been coming up before and always been killed as "never gonna happen". I have a feeling that trofirhen was in the know all along! Next up: South America? :)

deasine
Jul 14, 2019, 3:37 PM
Replace “teenage girls” with “human beings” and that’s closer to the truth. You can search online yourself about AC/SQ and CX/QF tensions. Here’s an example of the discussions around QF/CX: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20426091#p20426091. Whether it’s more than imaginings by armchair aviation enthusiasts I couldn’t say.

Not that I don't deny the "bad blood" between AC/SQ, but SQ's partnership and codesharing with AS only makes sense given they are flying to SEA and need onward feed onto their flights.

thenoflyzone
Jul 14, 2019, 8:27 PM
Did you just... say something positive about YVR??? Wow. You're sure it's not YUL that is the superior one? I cannot believe what I am reading here.

Interesting development regarding Tahiti as the topic has been coming up before and always been killed as "never gonna happen". I have a feeling that trofirhen was in the know all along! Next up: South America? :)

Easy there, I can quickly edit what I wrote....;)

Applying for the license and starting service are 2 different things. Let's see if AF follows through with this. Like I said, it will be an uphill battle for them.

zahav
Jul 15, 2019, 5:40 AM
Not that it makes much difference in flight decision, but CDG-YVR-PPT is almost evenly split between flight segments CDG-YVR and YVR-PPT, vs routings thru LAX and SFO.

And I agree with SQ partnering with AS in SEA. They are just so big there and have so many other destinations to connect with, it is strategic to have the most reach. It wasn't do diss AC on that one route. They could still codeshare with AC to YVR and YYZ (YYZ even more likely) but who knows if they will even bother

LeftCoaster
Jul 15, 2019, 10:24 PM
I agree the Max grounding definitely having an effect.

Eg AC reduced YVR-LAS to one daily from two daily rouge. That reduces 136 daily departing seats from the market.

Look at the May results more closely and put it in perspective.

The May Transborder result is a reduction of only 90 departing passengers per day. Not taking anything else into account, that one reduction on YVR-LAS, which is a direct result of the grounding, removed more seats than the actual reduction in passengers carried.

Voila.

Well that is assuming it would be 0% growth otherwise.

While the example does put it into perspective and the max grounding definitely accounts for some loss of growth, it is still perplexing to me why YVR is now growing slower than every other major airport in Canada when Vancouver's economy continues to grow the fastest.

I expect this downturn in growth, particularly to the US, to be temporary given that.

LeftCoaster
Jul 15, 2019, 10:26 PM
Seems like it's the time of the year when AF and TN applies for extra-bilateral service to operate service from Canada to Tahiti via US. However, I've noticed something new this year:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2019-131

Now for the first time in all the years I've checked, AF is specifically asking for the license to operate on Route 3.

Am I looking at it too much? :D

Interesting development. While it makes sense for AF to try and fill their plans a little to YVR, especially in the slow winter months, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if they end up going through with this application.

nname
Jul 16, 2019, 4:48 AM
Seems like AC is planning to remove MAX from the entire winter schedule.

Currently YVR-PHX is switched to 320 instead of 7M8.

ALL of YVR-Mexico increase had been rolled back to W18 level.

Schedule update for the next few weeks should be interesting...

Hourglass
Jul 16, 2019, 5:12 AM
Seems like AC is planning to remove MAX from the entire winter schedule.

Currently YVR-PHX is switched to 320 instead of 7M8.

ALL of YVR-Mexico increase had been rolled back to W18 level.

Schedule update for the next few weeks should be interesting...

Yes, starting to look like MAX groundings could possibly extend into 2020, especially if regulators find additional problems or require revisions or refinements to the software fix.

zahav
Jul 16, 2019, 6:43 AM
The MAX issue is why I took the AC schedule update a few weeks ago with a grain of salt. All of the sun lfying they added from YVR was scheduled with 737, meaning it wasn't worth a damn, it was all speculation and assumption it wouldn't happen

Johnny Aussie
Jul 21, 2019, 3:17 AM
Well that is assuming it would be 0% growth otherwise.

While the example does put it into perspective and the max grounding definitely accounts for some loss of growth, it is still perplexing to me why YVR is now growing slower than every other major airport in Canada when Vancouver's economy continues to grow the fastest.

I expect this downturn in growth, particularly to the US, to be temporary given that.

True true. But compared to SEA, probably YVR's more direct competitive airport, YVR still added more intl pax than SEA in May. SEA added only 14,000 compared to YVR's 26,000. And that's after SEA added JL, CX and DL's new KIX flight. JL has certainly taken a bite out of NH there. And even more fascinating is DL flew fewer intl passengers in May compared to last year. So the gap continues to grow between the two.

YYC's growth is definitely due to WS growing their connecting hub there no question.

Not sure if we consider YEG a "major" airport anymore but they had an abysmal May.

CloudInspector
Jul 22, 2019, 5:48 PM
WestJet’s winter schedule announcement shows an increase in flying in YVR.

http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2019-07-22-More-flights-more-often-with-WestJets-winter-schedule

Additions to YVR Include:
YWG: 2 daily (+1/week)
SNA: Daily (+1/week)
SJD: Daily (+2/week)
PVR: 9 weekly (+1/week)
HUX: 2 weekly (+1/week)
CUN: 9 weekly (+2/week)

LeftCoaster
Jul 22, 2019, 9:40 PM
True true. But compared to SEA, probably YVR's more direct competitive airport, YVR still added more intl pax than SEA in May. SEA added only 14,000 compared to YVR's 26,000. And that's after SEA added JL, CX and DL's new KIX flight. JL has certainly taken a bite out of NH there. And even more fascinating is DL flew fewer intl passengers in May compared to last year. So the gap continues to grow between the two.

YYC's growth is definitely due to WS growing their connecting hub there no question.

Not sure if we consider YEG a "major" airport anymore but they had an abysmal May.

I don't think YEG has ever been a major airport (no offence YEG, but let's be honest).

I'm hoping 2019 is an aberration year and 2020 continues the strong growth. The economic, population, and wealth growth in YVR are just too strong for this slow growth at YVR to persist.

And before anyone jumps in and says "YVR couldn't keep up its fast growth", it's average growth over the last 20 years is 2.8%, so more or less inflationary. The last 4-5 years were only making up for the lost years of the first and last three years of the 2000s. YVRs growth for the last two decades has been decidedly average.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 22, 2019, 10:12 PM
I don't think YEG has ever been a major airport (no offence YEG, but let's be honest).

I'm hoping 2019 is an aberration year and 2020 continues the strong growth. The economic, population, and wealth growth in YVR are just too strong for this slow growth at YVR to persist.

And before anyone jumps in and says "YVR couldn't keep up its fast growth", it's average growth over the last 20 years is 2.8%, so more or less inflationary. The last 4-5 years were only making up for the lost years of the first and last three years of the 2000s. YVRs growth for the last two decades has been decidedly average.

Let's hope!

The growth encountered in the last few years may have been some catching up but I think we all realised those very high growth rates wouldn't last indefinitely. Each year with the denominator growing that much higher, the ability to maintain those high growths would have meant adding even more capacity year on year than in previous years. Aggregate numbers still going up but % wise harder to achieve. And comparing to SEA, which economically is just going sky high, YVR is still adding more intl passengers than SEA.

Nice to see WESTJET adding to its YVR "hub." All up looks like 8 extra flights per week this winter of which 7 are international. :P

Still good to see Westjet continuing to build their mainline ops at YVR.

nname
Jul 22, 2019, 10:25 PM
Nice to see WESTJET adding to its YVR "hub." All up looks like 8 extra flights per week this winter of which 7 are international. :P

Still good to see Westjet continuing to build their mainline ops at YVR.

If you exclude Encore, seasonal extension, and 787 upgauge, YVR actually gained the same or more mainline service from WS than YYC and YYZ :D

But again, this is probably due to almost no growth from WS last winter/summer.

trofirhen
Jul 22, 2019, 10:32 PM
Let's hope!

The growth encountered in the last few years may have been some catching up but I think we all realised those very high growth rates wouldn't last indefinitely. Each year with the denominator growing that much higher, the ability to maintain those high growths would have meant adding even more capacity year on year than in previous years. Aggregate numbers still going up but % wise harder to achieve. And comparing to SEA, which economically is just going sky high, YVR is still adding more intl passengers than SEA.

Nice to see WESTJET adding to its YVR "hub." All up looks like 8 extra flights per week this winter of which 7 are international. :P

Still good to see Westjet continuing to build their mainline ops at YVR.


Which 7 new Westjet routes are international, please? I would imagine they're pretty much all in Mexico, possibly the Caribbean. ( Or does that include transborder?);) Thanks.
(btw, I did consult the westjet link a few posts above, and found only 6 from YVR, one to Winnipeg, one transborder, the rest - 4 - in the list to Mexico.)
no comprendo.

CloudInspector
Jul 22, 2019, 11:16 PM
Flew on WestJet the other day, flight attendant mentioned they can now apply for the 787 in YVR. Thought that was interesting.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 22, 2019, 11:49 PM
Flew on WestJet the other day, flight attendant mentioned they can now apply for the 787 in YVR. Thought that was interesting.

Wouldn’t that be exciting. Next wave arrive next year?

Johnny Aussie
Jul 22, 2019, 11:51 PM
If you exclude Encore, seasonal extension, and 787 upgauge, YVR actually gained the same or more mainline service from WS than YYC and YYZ :D

But again, this is probably due to almost no growth from WS last winter/summer.

Yes, overall this winter not really that many gains system wide. One of the smaller increases in recent years.

The continuing MAX saga may still put a dent in some increases later on.

LeftCoaster
Jul 22, 2019, 11:58 PM
Let's hope!

The growth encountered in the last few years may have been some catching up but I think we all realised those very high growth rates wouldn't last indefinitely. Each year with the denominator growing that much higher, the ability to maintain those high growths would have meant adding even more capacity year on year than in previous years. Aggregate numbers still going up but % wise harder to achieve. And comparing to SEA, which economically is just going sky high, YVR is still adding more intl passengers than SEA.

Nice to see WESTJET adding to its YVR "hub." All up looks like 8 extra flights per week this winter of which 7 are international. :P

Still good to see Westjet continuing to build their mainline ops at YVR.

I didn't expect the rapid growth to continue infinitely, but I did expect it's drop would come in tandem with an economic slowdown, not during continued economic growth, which to me does not make any sense.

I really do hope the A220 allows Air Canada to address some of the routes that really need some additional service/any service at all. Boston/Halifax/Austin/Quebec/Dulles/Miami/Secondary Mexican Cities all come to mind.

And yes, happy to see WestJet throw a little something at YVR, though it is still pretty paltry service and most certainly no where near a hub.

If you exclude Encore, seasonal extension, and 787 upgauge, YVR actually gained the same or more mainline service from WS than YYC and YYZ :D

haha, right. If you don't count most of the other additions we have a similar number of additions. :haha:

Which 7 new Westjet routes are international, please? I would imagine they're pretty much all in Mexico, possibly the Caribbean. ( Or does that include transborder?);) Thanks.
(btw, I did consult the westjet link a few posts above, and found only 6 from YVR, one to Winnipeg, one transborder, the rest - 4 - in the list to Mexico.)
no comprendo.

No one said there were 7 new routes, just new flights.

Count up the incremental flights in brackets below:

Additions to YVR Include:
YWG: 2 daily (+1/week)
SNA: Daily (+1/week)
SJD: Daily (+2/week)
PVR: 9 weekly (+1/week)
HUX: 2 weekly (+1/week)
CUN: 9 weekly (+2/week)

I think you'll find it totals 8...

CloudInspector
Jul 23, 2019, 12:04 AM
Wouldn’t that be exciting. Next wave arrive next year?

Early next year I believe. She didn’t say where they’d be flying, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they use YVR as an Asian gateway.

trofirhen
Jul 23, 2019, 12:05 AM
No one said there were 7 new routes, just new flights.
Count up the incremental flights in brackets below:




I think you'll find it totals 8...
Ah, yes, of course. Flights, not destinations. Excuse me. I stand corrected.:duh

Johnny Aussie
Jul 23, 2019, 3:52 AM
I didn't expect the rapid growth to continue infinitely, but I did expect it's drop would come in tandem with an economic slowdown, not during continued economic growth, which to me does not make any sense.

I really do hope the A220 allows Air Canada to address some of the routes that really need some additional service/any service at all. Boston/Halifax/Austin/Quebec/Dulles/Miami/Secondary Mexican Cities all come to mind.

And yes, happy to see WestJet throw a little something at YVR, though it is still pretty paltry service and most certainly no where near a hub.

I agree with your point about the economic growth that’s why I used SEA as an example too. If Vancouver’s economy is on fire, Seattle’s is supposed to be out of control on fire. Yet, they still added way fewer intl passengers than YVR.

The A220s will definitely open up new routes from YVR. Just like the Dreamliner has been a big winner for YVR for long haul international, the A220 will be a big winner for YVR in North America. No doubt they can’t come soon enough.

As for Westjet... the pattern has been developed... at YYC WS is slowly pushing AC out of there while at YVR AC continues to dominate and therefore very little Westjet growth. WS throwing the odd bone to YVR is the same as AC throwing the off bone to YYC.

SpongeG
Jul 23, 2019, 5:40 AM
Apparently this plane stopped to pick up some cherries

MnDPanYBvF4

trofirhen
Jul 23, 2019, 8:36 AM
As for Westjet... the pattern has been developed... at YYC WS is slowly pushing AC out of there while at YVR AC continues to dominate and therefore very little Westjet growth. WS throwing the odd bone to YVR is the same as AC throwing the off bone to YYC.
Do you think WS may step up its presence at YVR in the longer term? I heard they were planning destinations in Asia, and possibly South America. I doubt these would be all out of YYC

SpongeG
Jul 24, 2019, 5:08 AM
some pics from saturday

the expansion
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362243462_43ffb553cb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gFB94Q)2019-07-23_11-04-10 (https://flic.kr/p/2gFB94Q) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362244912_8221e8891d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gFB9uQ)2019-07-23_11-04-39 (https://flic.kr/p/2gFB9uQ) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

the store and sort of cafe that was here is being replaced
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362115226_17953dbf1d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gFAtWS)2019-07-23_11-04-54 (https://flic.kr/p/2gFAtWS) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362247382_9b28f8f67e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gFBaeq)2019-07-23_11-05-08 (https://flic.kr/p/2gFBaeq) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362248157_b442587e57_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gFBasM)2019-07-23_11-05-20 (https://flic.kr/p/2gFBasM) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://www.joejuice.com/

Hourglass
Jul 24, 2019, 5:26 AM
Do you think WS may step up its presence at YVR in the longer term? I heard they were planning destinations in Asia, and possibly South America. I doubt these would be all out of YYC

The challenge for any WS Asian expansion out of YVR is that (1) Asia is already pretty well covered with lots of competition; (2) AC has strong market share; and (3) WS has very little brand recognition outside Canada. Maybe YVR-BKK or YVR-SGN? HKG might be possible even though there are a ton of flights. Not sure about South America given aircraft utilization challenges.

While Calgary is a much smaller VFR market than Vancouver, there's also a lot less nonstop competition to Asia. Add to that the benefit from being WS' main hub, I could see WS launching HKG, with NRT, ICN, PEK and PVG as options.

CloudInspector
Jul 24, 2019, 12:42 PM
The challenge for any WS Asian expansion out of YVR is that (1) Asia is already pretty well covered with lots of competition; (2) AC has strong market share; and (3) WS has very little brand recognition outside Canada. Maybe YVR-BKK or YVR-SGN? HKG might be possible even though there are a ton of flights. Not sure about South America given aircraft utilization challenges.

While Calgary is a much smaller VFR market than Vancouver, there's also a lot less nonstop competition to Asia. Add to that the benefit from being WS' main hub, I could see WS launching HKG, with NRT, ICN, PEK and PVG as options.

Just my opinion, but I think the benefits of using YVR as a Pacific hub outweigh the disadvantages. I can’t see many people backtracking 400 miles when there are there are a multitude of non-stop options available. It’s perfectly fine to enter a saturated market, you just need a strong product that differentiates itself from the rest. WS already uses YVR as a Hawai’i hub, with extra seasonal flights from YEG and YYC, I suspect Asia would follow a similar pattern.

Once again, just my two cents. And that’s about what it’s worth :P

connect2source
Jul 24, 2019, 2:09 PM
Glad to see Joe & The Juice coming to YVR, an absolute staple in European airports and one of my favourite options, amazing juices, coffees, sandwiches and hopefully the first of many new food options replacing YVR's rather pathetic choices.

thenoflyzone
Jul 24, 2019, 10:25 PM
I agree with your point about the economic growth that’s why I used SEA as an example too. If Vancouver’s economy is on fire, Seattle’s is supposed to be out of control on fire. Yet, they still added way fewer intl passengers than YVR.


Since when is economic activity limited to international flights? You're conveniently leaving out domestic numbers, which is an even more important indicator of economic boom in the US. Tack on domestic numbers, and SEA is outperforming YVR.

YVR YTD May overall increase 2.8% (+281,300 passengers)
SEA YTD MAY overall increase 3.4% (+632,500 passengers)

Over twice as many more passengers so far this year.

I can’t see many people backtracking 400 miles when there are there are a multitude of non-stop options available.

You'd be surprised to see how many miles people are prepared to backtrack to save 100$.

The challenge for any WS Asian expansion out of YVR is that (1) Asia is already pretty well covered with lots of competition; (2) AC has strong market share; and (3) WS has very little brand recognition outside Canada. Maybe YVR-BKK or YVR-SGN? HKG might be possible even though there are a ton of flights. Not sure about South America given aircraft utilization challenges.

While Calgary is a much smaller VFR market than Vancouver, there's also a lot less nonstop competition to Asia. Add to that the benefit from being WS' main hub, I could see WS launching HKG, with NRT, ICN, PEK and PVG as options.

Spot on ! That being said, it will be a cold day in hell before your see a WS dreamliner in BKK or SGN.

CloudInspector
Jul 25, 2019, 2:11 AM
WestJet is building lounges and really making a play for the business traveller, which is a market that would pay the extra money to go non-stop.

zahav
Jul 25, 2019, 7:27 AM
WS specifically called YYC, YYZ, and YVR hubs, that isn't boosterism or trying to make YVR sound better, it is from the horse's mouth... And regardless of whether it's Mexico additions or not, it shows they do consider it important. YVR is also important as so many of the Asian carriers codeshare with WS, so it functions as a hub for the purposes of outbound and inbound connections, a key indicator of what constitues a hub. YEG and YVR used to be in the same category, but it seems WS themslves have clarified:

Frequency increases to popular domestic, transborder and international destinations from airline's hubs in Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto

CALGARY, July 22, 2019 /CNW/ - As part of its 2019/2020 seasonal winter schedule, today WestJet announced increased frequency and improved connectivity from its hubs to more destinations across its network.

WestJet's seasonal schedule for winter 2019/2020 features more flights from Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto to domestic, transborder, international and sun destinations and includes WestJet's seasonal service to both Paris and Nashville from Calgary, commencing earlier than past years on March 12 (Paris) and March 16 (Nashville). WestJet's popular daily summer seasonal service between Calgary and Portland (PDX) will also extend through winter.

"By executing on our hub strategy, we're improving schedules not only for guests in Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, but also building thousands of new connections for guests across the country," said Arved von zur Muehlen, WestJet Chief Commercial Officer. "This winter Canadians have more flights and better access to popular leisure and business destinations and will benefit from schedule improvements, frequency increases and improved connectivity across our growing global network."

thenoflyzone
Jul 25, 2019, 11:47 PM
WS specifically called YYC, YYZ, and YVR hubs, that isn't boosterism or trying to make YVR sound better, it is from the horse's mouth... And regardless of whether it's Mexico additions or not, it shows they do consider it important. YVR is also important as so many of the Asian carriers codeshare with WS, so it functions as a hub for the purposes of outbound and inbound connections, a key indicator of what constitues a hub. YEG and YVR used to be in the same category, but it seems WS themslves have clarified:

Frequency increases to popular domestic, transborder and international destinations from airline's hubs in Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto

CALGARY, July 22, 2019 /CNW/ - As part of its 2019/2020 seasonal winter schedule, today WestJet announced increased frequency and improved connectivity from its hubs to more destinations across its network.

WestJet's seasonal schedule for winter 2019/2020 features more flights from Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto to domestic, transborder, international and sun destinations and includes WestJet's seasonal service to both Paris and Nashville from Calgary, commencing earlier than past years on March 12 (Paris) and March 16 (Nashville). WestJet's popular daily summer seasonal service between Calgary and Portland (PDX) will also extend through winter.

"By executing on our hub strategy, we're improving schedules not only for guests in Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto, but also building thousands of new connections for guests across the country," said Arved von zur Muehlen, WestJet Chief Commercial Officer. "This winter Canadians have more flights and better access to popular leisure and business destinations and will benefit from schedule improvements, frequency increases and improved connectivity across our growing global network."

The hub and spoke model is alive and well in Alberta, much to the displeasure of the folks in Edmonton....

LeftCoaster
Jul 26, 2019, 8:33 PM
Ya YVR is not a WestJet hub, and I'd say its going the other way rather than increasing.

YVR based passengers face more connections in YYZ and YYC today than they did over the last 5 years. They can call it whatever they want in the press release, Westjet has two hubs and a few other airports they also fly to, that's it.

As much as it would be great if WS and AC both hubbed in YVR, realistically the City can only support one major hub operation, and I'd much rather have AC than WS.

trofirhen
Jul 26, 2019, 8:41 PM
Ya YVR is not a WestJet hub, and I'd say its going the other way rather than increasing.

YVR based passengers face more connections in YYZ and YYC today than they did over the last 5 years. They can call it whatever they want in the press release, Westjet has two hubs and a few other airports they also fly to, that's it.

As much as it would be great if WS and AC both hubbed in YVR, realistically the City can only support one major hub operation, and I'd much rather have AC than WS.
YVR was once called a Westjet "focus city," along with YUL, I believe. Is the term "focus city" still valid for YVR, re: WS?

LeftCoaster
Jul 26, 2019, 8:42 PM
Yes I'd say YVR is a WestJet focus City.

Speaking of hubs, I was at YVR on Tuesday and grabbed a shot of the airport doing its best SFO impression:

https://i.imgur.com/PJCUfST.jpg?1

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2019, 9:05 PM
The term hub gets misused a lot. Hence my use of “hub” when discussing certain press releases or comments. An airline calling a city a hub with less than 10 departures a day is laughable. The term “operating base” or “main operating base” for an airport with the most number of flights for an airline would be more appropriate.

I think the term focus city is used by American carriers mainly. Not sure if any Canadian carrier has used that term.

But Westjet at YVR meets the criteria more of a focus city than a hub. I agree too much rather have an AC hub than WS. YVR is too small to have two carriers hubbed there.