The not-so-Great Canadian Corporate Greed thread

[MolsonExport]

Corporate pressure led Shoppers Drug Mart staff to bill unnecessary medication reviews, pharmacists say (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-medcheck-shoppers-drug-mart-pressure-1.7126811)

Internal letter describes push for billable work as as 'borderline abusive'

CBC News spoke with former Shoppers Drug Mart pharmacy employees who believe the company is taking advantage of the MedsCheck service by pushing staff to bill for consultations patients don't necessarily need. The company can then bill the province up to $75 per call.

Eight former Shoppers Drug Mart employees said intense pressure from management pushed staff to cold-call customers regularly. In an internal letter obtained by CBC News that was emailed to company leadership last July, a group of pharmacy owners said the "borderline abusive" pressure to do more MedsCheck calls was affecting their ability to provide the best patient care.

...
Several pharmacists said top-down pressure from "corporate" or "upper management" led them to schedule or make "unnecessary" MedsCheck calls to customers who were technically eligible for the program but not what they would consider to be high risk.


https://i.imgflip.com/8hc551.jpg


Over the course of the pandemic, the value of Galen's shares in George Weston Ltd., founded by his great-grandfather and led by Weston as CEO, have swelled from $5.9 billion to $10.8 billion.
https://macleans.ca/culture/food/the-power-list-galen-weston-is-the-countrys-most-powerful-and-controversial-grocery-mogul/

[WhipperSnapper]

Galen Weston's biggest mistake was to think he could step into the role played by the head of President Choice in advertisements during the 80s and 90s. In 2023, all he has done is made himself a media target for the like of Molson to obsess about.

Canada is a country of oligopolies with eyes focused on the US. Nearly everyone hired into a "C" position is a privileged elite that will layoff one below the minimum for a mandatory public release to cover their signing bonus or severance

In my opinion that is more egregious than Galen Weston's wealth doubling in size due to the value in shares in his family business which has nothing to do with sales. See Tesla's capitalization vs General Motors.

Groceries in Toronto have doubled everywhere. I personally find Metro to be a lot more expensive than Loblaws. Sobeys is not cheaper than Loblaws. The higher prices have blow up revenues however, the profit margins have been stable. As far as I know, both Metro and Sobeys are faceless corproations.

[Nouvellecosse]

Pointing out examples of corporate greed isn't meant to imply that those examples are unique or are worse than others. It's to highlight general problems with the system. Like if you're in a dictatorship and complain that your dictator isn't very nice, the complaint isn't that the dictator should be nicer but that dictatorships suck and you want democracy. Even though many democratically elected politicians also suck. You just don't want whoever it is who happens to suck to have complete control.

[MolsonExport]

^thanks for "getting it".

Plus, I just don't like Galen. Who could? His company conspired with other oligopolies in the grocery industry to control bread prices, for more than a decade. His PC/no-name products often weigh half of what is listed on the packaging. Blatant false advertising, at best, and more likely outright fraud. Not an obsession, but the guy is certainly an asshole (there are just so many examples to corroborate this), so I don't understand at all why someone without any connection to Galen (presumably?) would feel personally slighted. Such as the likes of Whippersnapper. Galen brought it completely on himself.

https://uploads.dailydot.com/2023/09/chip-shortage.jpg?q=65&auto=format&w=1200&ar=2:1&fit=crop
‘It’s crazy how much more we pay for less now!’: Loblaws customer buys chip bag labeled as 200 grams. It only weighs 103 grams.

For sure, Galen is not the only case of corporate greed in Canada. But he has become the face of it.

Shoppers discover boxes of Cheerios, bags of Loblaws chips that weigh far less than advertised (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2032507/shoppers-discover-boxes-of-cheerios-bags-of-loblaws-chips-that-weigh-far-less-than-advertised)

The banks are similarly engaged in such egregious behaviour, basically forcing their hapless employees (many of whom seem only slightly more intelligent than a bag of hammers) to upsell customers into financial products and insurance that they don't need/want.

[Docere]

Pointing out examples of corporate greed isn't meant to imply that those examples are unique or are worse than others. It's to highlight general problems with the system. Like if you're in a dictatorship and complain that your dictator isn't very nice, the complaint isn't that the dictator should be nicer but that dictatorships suck and you want democracy. Even though many democratically elected politicians also suck. You just don't want whoever it is who happens to suck to have complete control.

Well said.

[ssiguy]

Loblaws and Sobeys run the roost in Canada's food & pharmacy retail and it shows by their prices and often complete dominance in smaller markets. Even in the big cities, it's hard to go shopping without setting foot in one of the too. Empire is just an also ran as is Save-On being just small regional market providers. I'm surprised Loblaws hasn't bought them out yet.

[urbandreamer]

Have any of you actually met Galen? I ran into him and his girlfriend (now wife) years ago at Toronto Fashion Week. He's a typical rich kid, probably similar to Ssiguy, or my cousin lol. (My cousin won't allow me, a pauper, near her mansion.)

Aside from the Sobeys, the real assholes in the grocery biz are the middle managers who run the supply chain and especially the franchise/store owners. I'm thinking about the time I caught Bob, of Uptown Waterloo's Independent Grocer, screaming, kicking and throwing things at his employees.

Thrifty Foods and Save On are absolute robber barons. So are those small town Co-ops/Sobeys on the Prairies.

[Gresto]

Plus, I just don't like Galen. Who could?
He is uniquely loathsome, with his "Aw shucks/Who, me?" grin and milquetoast pullovers only exacerbating the repellent impact of his avarice and indifference.

[Proof Sheet]

My contribution to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oeCaDC-mUE

Brad Lamb. A critter amongst critters. Greed for the sake of greed.

Another one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJN7BJuLUFI

Molson..I think he grew up in your neck of the woods. The entitlement from Kevin is so awful. He does stretch the truth about Brador and its %.

[Wigs]

I couldn't watch that Brad Lamb video. Not sure if coke head or just has a cold with the relentless sniffling
:D

[harls]

Extra Virgin Olive oil, only 20$ a litre.

It's no-name brand too, so you know it's just a blend of the shittiest stuff they can find.

Get lost, Roblaws.

https://i.redd.it/f89fwql68elc1.png

[urbandreamer]

Food Basics had theirs on sale for $20 for 3L. Maybe that's the reason for the invasion of Gaza: to drive up olive oil prices?)
.Btw, it's $46 @ No Frills for NN 3L; PC brand 3L is $53. 3L @ Walmart from the same supplier is $39, even better price than Costco.

I generally find Food Basics and No Frills have the most consistent prices. Freshco is good for oddball items or ethnic foods. Anyway, FB is my preferred shop now, although I'm surrounded by No Frills so time vs $ means I'm here more often, like today. I buy their bags of bulk bruised NN carrots, beets etc, blanch and freeze them. Likewise, celery, cilantro, parsley can be blanched, cooled and frozen for months. Since I don't eat red meat or pork - GERD has benefits in inflationary times - I've discovered those 4 tubes of ground turkey/chicken for $10 adequate and only seafood/fish and whole chicken I buy organic/fresh.

[Wigs]

Roblaws! Galen Weston needs another Castle

[urbandreamer]

He's got a nice horse farm in Caledon I drove by last Saturday. And my robber baron high school classmate is neighbours with him in Bermuda. Maybe his wife is shopping for an olive grove in Gaza?

He lives in a surprisingly modest Admiral Road home, across the street from that other thief writer Margaret Atwood!

I used to see his late father driving around the Annex in the late 1990s, in his mint 1978 VW Rabbit. Remember, WASPy people aren't flashy like the mob!

[1overcosc]

IIRC the total amount of olive oil consumed annually worldwide is about five times the annual production.. ie. 80% of olive oil is fake.

[Proof Sheet]

Extra Virgin Olive oil, only 20$ a litre.


I buy olive oil at the Kirkland Boutique

https://www.americastestkitchen.com/articles/7909-costco-kirkland-extra-virgin-olive-oil-tasting The problem is the size of the bottles.

[Wigs]

IIRC the total amount of olive oil consumed annually worldwide is about five times the annual production.. ie. 80% of olive oil is fake.

If you want to guarantee it's been lab tested to verify it's authentic EVOO
https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/79-certified-pure-and-authentic-olive-oils

[urbandreamer]

There's some really good gourmet olive oil in small batch shops I sometimes splurge on, like the Olive Pit or Olive Your Favourites in Stratford. Worth it.

When you stop eating red meat, processed foods and alcohol, suddenly you can afford high quality spices (obviously with reflux that means only minute quantities of black pepper) and olive oil. Also, for cheese/dairy I've reduced to Parmigiano Reggiano, filtered skim milk taken with lactase tablets and I make my own yogurt in an Instant Pot.

[lio45]

Extra Virgin Olive oil, only 20$ a litre.

It's no-name brand too, so you know it's just a blend of the shittiest stuff they can find.

Get lost, Roblaws.

https://i.redd.it/f89fwql68elc1.pngAssuming the same ratio as that bag of chips MolsonEx posted, then that “3L” container contains in reality only 1.5 liter of oil and so it’s actually $40/L :haha:

[Loco101]

Corporate pressure led Shoppers Drug Mart staff to bill unnecessary medication reviews, pharmacists say (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-medcheck-shoppers-drug-mart-pressure-1.7126811)





https://i.imgflip.com/8hc551.jpg


Over the course of the pandemic, the value of Galen's shares in George Weston Ltd., founded by his great-grandfather and led by Weston as CEO, have swelled from $5.9 billion to $10.8 billion.
https://macleans.ca/culture/food/the-power-list-galen-weston-is-the-countrys-most-powerful-and-controversial-grocery-mogul/

That must explain why I got called by a pharmacist at the Shoppers I get my prescriptions from. The pharmacist told me that she didn't really enjoy having to call people but that it was something her employer was requiring her to do. She is an immigrant from India so a number of people think she is part of a scam.

The consultation I had wasn't useless because she did go over the medications I take regularly and discussed side effects and asked me many questions to make sure I was doing okay with the meds. She even contacted my doctor's office after to suggest something which ended up getting me a much better asthma puffer.

But I can see a good portion of the MedsChecks not being useful. It's very questionable if Loblaws is profiting from them!

[urbandreamer]

Did you know a bag of potato chips contains 1 potato, worth about .01 cents?

Interesting, a SA pharmacist at my SDM also did a review of my medications. Btw, what happened to the old group of pharmacists? Did they all become realtors? Killed by covid? Moved to Mexico? (A lawyer I know says many Canadian lawyers have moved to Mexico or Florida, including prominent government officials who are running the ship from away, via Zoom/Teams. Could explain their utter cluelessness about the realities we're facing.)

[Wigs]

I buy olive oil at the Kirkland Boutique

https://www.americastestkitchen.com/articles/7909-costco-kirkland-extra-virgin-olive-oil-tasting The problem is the size of the bottles.

If you want maximum SSP street cred, you'll buy this particular one. Each bottle from Bari produced oil you buy, Miketoronto rings a bell in gratitude

https://i.postimg.cc/T20ypbF8/Screenshot-20240228-215440-995.png

[Wigs]

Did you know a bag of potato chips contains 1 potato, worth about .01 cents?
Not sure if serious, but...
A redditor claimed it was roughly 6-8 medium potatoes for your typical bag. Lay's claims 10-12 per pound (454g)...but that was probably before Roblaws style cheating :haha:

Sometimes you just want a damn chip. Especially if you don't have to deal with GERD. That must suck, urbandreamer.

Occasionally I'll make my own fries, though.
F*** McCain's too, I'll support Cavendish.

[Loco101]

Galen Weston's biggest mistake was to think he could step into the role played by the head of President Choice in advertisements during the 80s and 90s. In 2023, all he has done is made himself a media target for the like of Molson to obsess about.

Canada is a country of oligopolies with eyes focused on the US. Nearly everyone hired into a "C" position is a privileged elite that will layoff one below the minimum for a mandatory public release to cover their signing bonus or severance

In my opinion that is more egregious than Galen Weston's wealth doubling in size due to the value in shares in his family business which has nothing to do with sales. See Tesla's capitalization vs General Motors.

Groceries in Toronto have doubled everywhere. I personally find Metro to be a lot more expensive than Loblaws. Sobeys is not cheaper than Loblaws. The higher prices have blow up revenues however, the profit margins have been stable. As far as I know, both Metro and Sobeys are faceless corproations.

Galen Weston is definitely no Dave Nichol. Him still doing the ads is such a big mistake. While I can't stand Weston, at least he is visible and makes himself a target whether good or bad and to me he is bad. The top people at Metro and Sobeys (also known as Empire) are pretty much invisible except when called to a parliamentary committee and they are just as bad. All three companies have been able to get away with so much with very few consequences.

[urbandreamer]

NN/PC chips are made in Winnipeg by Old Dutch Foods, an American company. I've heard the weight issues may be caused by the TFW replacements they've hired, ie too lazy/incompetent to check the cells with scales. I used to run a production line so have no idea how this would fly.

Store bought chips are very high in fat which certainly triggers reflux. Occasionally I eat them. Obviously homemade baked or airfried potato chips would be ideal.

[Wigs]

Assuming the same ratio as that bag of chips MolsonEx posted, then that “3L” container contains in reality only 1.5 liter of oil and so it’s actually $40/L :haha:

Canadians are going to have to weigh and measure everything we buy from the grocery store :haha:

rcgcKtcc2uY?si=vPlcDEBhWBxvPu6p

[Loco101]

Loblaws and Metro run the roost in Canada's food & pharmacy retail and it shows by their prices and often complete dominance in smaller markets. Even in the big cities, it's hard to go shopping without setting foot in one of the too. Empire is just an also ran as is Save-On being just small regional market providers. I'm surprised Loblaws hasn't bought them out yet.

The Empire Company (Sobeys, etc.) is also a major player and bigger than Metro as far as I'm aware. Empire has the largest market share in the Atlantic provinces and Quebec. In Quebec they own the IGA banner which has an almost monopoly in some areas of the province. Empire also dominates many smaller markets and smaller towns in Ontario and Atlantic Region with their Foodland banner.

And I should mention that Empire has really been moving into urban markets by buying up other banners and creating some new ones which include Farm Boy, FreshCo, Longos and I think a couple more.

The company also owns Lawton's pharmacies and Needs convenience stores in the Atlantic provinces.

As far as the Western provinces and Northwestern Ontario they own the Safeway banner in Canada, Thrifty Foods and operate Sobeys stores and liquor stores.

[urbandreamer]

Again, NN is taking the blame for what is an Old Dutch Foods issue.

Attacking Galen Weston is lazy, when it's shareholders pressuring for reduced costs. Walmart and Costco are big threats, with considerably better supply chain efficiencies. Walmart being relatively new to Canada has less sway than Loblaws with produce suppliers which is why it's often overpriced and expired. I don't understand why SA shop at Walmart so much considering FB & NF have lower prices; perhaps they're loyal because their countrymen work there?

[Loco101]

NN/PC chips are made in Winnipeg by Old Dutch Foods, an American company. I've heard the weight issues may be caused by the TFW replacements they've hired, ie too lazy/incompetent to check the cells with scales. I used to run a production line so have no idea how this would fly.

Store bought chips are very high in fat which certainly triggers reflux. Occasionally I eat them. Obviously homemade baked or airfried potato chips would be ideal.

Yes Old Dutch does make NN and PC brand chips as well as a number of other house brands for other companies.

They have manufacturing facilities in both Winnipeg and Calgary. I know someone who worked at the Calgary location.

[Loco101]

Again, NN is taking the blame for what is an Old Dutch Foods issue.

Attacking Galen Weston is lazy, when it's shareholders pressuring for reduced costs. Walmart and Costco are big threats, with considerably better supply chain efficiencies. Walmart being relatively new to Canada has less sway than Loblaws with produce suppliers which is why it's often overpriced and expired. I don't understand why SA shop at Walmart so much considering FB & NF have lower prices; perhaps they're loyal because their countrymen work there?

Walmart has been in Canada since 1994 so I wouldn't call the company new here. But they didn't get into the grocery business starting in 2006 so 18 years should give the company enough time to have good supply chains. Loblaws has an advantage of being a larger company within Canada still.

I agree that the groceries at Walmart aren't as good for what you pay but some people prefer it simply because they can shop for many non-grocery items at the same time.

[urbandreamer]

Walmart is good for vitamins and gluten-free junk food and cheap socks and underwear. Sometimes they've got good deals on motor oil and filters etc. But overall their clothing, appliances and household goods are inferior quality junk.

On road trips I do use them for washroom breaks, bananas and maybe a curiosity to check out the locals. Red Deer AB, Magog QC and Belleville ON take the cake for trashiest patrons.

[Wigs]

I don't understand why SA shop at Walmart so much considering FB & NF have lower prices; perhaps they're loyal because their countrymen work there?

People like 1 stop shopping, convenience over multiple shopping trips :shrug:

[Proof Sheet]

If you want maximum SSP street cred, you'll buy this particular one. Each bottle from Bari produced oil you buy, Miketoronto rings a bell in gratitude

https://i.postimg.cc/T20ypbF8/Screenshot-20240228-215440-995.png

Good one. Another fan of that long departed SSP member.

Will buying this olive oil help alleviate their terrible shopping mall crisis. ?

[Wigs]

I poke fun, but no one else in Canada was dedicated to attempting to create the best bus transit system in the country. Overall he's missed by many.

And we haven't heard if Bari was able to recover from the retailpocalypse

[Rollerstud98]

Yes Old Dutch does make NN and PC brand chips as well as a number of other house brands for other companies.

They have manufacturing facilities in both Winnipeg and Calgary. I know someone who worked at the Calgary location.

We have an old Dutch plant in town here, called condillo foods. Pretty sure they package corn chips.

[ScreamingViking]

The Empire Company (Sobeys, etc.) is also a major player and bigger than Metro as far as I'm aware. Empire has the largest market share in the Atlantic provinces and Quebec. In Quebec they own the IGA banner which has an almost monopoly in some areas of the province. Empire also dominates many smaller markets and smaller towns in Ontario and Atlantic Region with their Foodland banner.

Hence the red bolded part. Which I can never un-see, after seeing it while glancing at a store sign.

[lio45]

The Empire Company (Sobeys, etc.) is also a major player and bigger than Metro as far as I'm aware. Empire has the largest market share in the Atlantic provinces and Quebec. In Quebec they own the IGA banner which has an almost monopoly in some areas of the province. Empire also dominates many smaller markets and smaller towns in Ontario and Atlantic Region with their Foodland banner.

And I should mention that Empire has really been moving into urban markets by buying up other banners and creating some new ones which include Farm Boy, FreshCo, Longos and I think a couple more.

The company also owns Lawton's pharmacies and Needs convenience stores in the Atlantic provinces.

As far as the Western provinces and Northwestern Ontario they own the Safeway banner in Canada, Thrifty Foods and operate Sobeys stores and liquor stores.True, IGA is the only grocery chain a small town will have, when it’s large enough to have one. The other banners require a bigger base, it seems. So for many regions, IGA is where they shop, no choice.

IGA is like Subway — the very first “chain” you’ll find.

Not sure it’s true everywhere but in Quebec it’s automatic for towns, this chain tier system:

Very small — no chains
Slightly bigger village — has a Subway
Bigger little town — has a Subway AND a Tim Hortons
Small city — has Subway AND Tim Hortons AND McDonald’s (and other chains too, often; when you’re big enough for a McD’s you’re big enough for any others, A&W etc.)

[MolsonExport]

Canadians are going to have to weigh and measure everything we buy from the grocery store :haha:

rcgcKtcc2uY?si=vPlcDEBhWBxvPu6p

This pisses me off to no end. Why do these bastards get away with this thievery? Completely unethical and illegal. Even when they get fined, it is never enough to discourage them from doing it again. The Competition Bureau of Canada doesn't have the resources to go after all of these issues, and there are tens of thousands of such issues.

Also assholic is adding salted water to meat, to raise the weight. They all do this.

[MolsonExport]

True, IGA is the only grocery chain a small town will have, when it’s large enough to have one. The other banners require a bigger base, it seems. So for many regions, IGA is where they shop, no choice.

IGA is like Subway — the very first “chain” you’ll find.

Not sure it’s true everywhere but in Quebec it’s automatic for towns, this chain tier system:

Very small — no chains
Slightly bigger village — has a Subway
Bigger little town — has a Subway AND a Tim Hortons
Small city — has Subway AND Tim Hortons AND McDonald’s (and other chains too, often; when you’re big enough for a McD’s you’re big enough for any others, A&W etc.)

Back in the bon vieux temps, two-bit villages/towns would have a "Richelieu" grocer (which was the second part of the formerly known "Metro-Richelieu" chain).

[lio45]

Back in the bon vieux temps, two-bit villages/towns would have a "Richelieu" grocer (which was the second part of the formerly known "Metro-Richelieu" chain).This one still exists right now (I pass in front of it several times a week, these days).

https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.0043424,-72.9142513,3a,54.1y,204.45h,95.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBPYAZQ6c8JPZ96MmNkJjQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[lio45]

This pisses me off to no end. Why do these bastards get away with this thievery? Completely unethical and illegal. Even when they get fined, it is never enough to discourage them from doing it again. The Competition Bureau of Canada doesn't have the resources to go after all of these issues, and there are tens of thousands of such issues.

Also assholic is adding salted water to meat, to raise the weight. They all do this.It's unbelievable to me that they can get away with this, and I'm sure 99% of Canadians at first sight would think the same -- that you Just. Cannot. sell "200g" and have only 100g or 150g in there, it's the type of unarguably criminal behavior that would get Loblaws nationalized and immediately land Galen in jail for a decade or two for fraud.

Mindblowing.

[lio45]

Completely unethical and illegal. Even when they get fined, it is never enough to discourage them from doing it again.General "properly functioning society" principle: the fine for bad behavior has to be set high enough that very smart, very calculating people who compute actuarial data NEVER reach the rational conclusion that the bad behavior including frequency and amount of penalties and fines is totally worth it and is the still best course of action overall.

(I can name several spheres where we're stupid enough that the penalties aren't enough to not make the "crimes" sensible. Weight fraud in groceries is just one example among many.)

[MolsonExport]

White collar crime is legion.

[lio45]

White collar crime is legion.And that's because the penalties are so feeble, that anyone rational and smart (who's not going to be stopped by "honor" and "sense of duty towards society") will conclude that white collar crime is advantageous on average. That's nonsense.

[ConundrumNL]

Wisecrack a YouTube philosophy channel most recent video is about normalization of Corporate crime.

https://youtu.be/jiDVyyHV-Xc?si=8XbE0uTudE4ke1oq

[Docere]

We could use a Canadian Ralph Nader.

[WarrenC12]

And that's because the penalties are so feeble, that anyone rational and smart (who's not going to be stopped by "honor" and "sense of duty towards society") will conclude that white collar crime is advantageous on average. That's nonsense.

Need more executives in jail.

Imagine Weston doing even 2 years hard time for the bread fixing bullshit.

[Docere]

This Dudley Do-Right image of Canada needs to die.

[Gresto]

I would be overjoyed to see white-collar crime treated much more harshly in Canada, including with the imposition of prison sentences for top-level executives.

[Wigs]

This Dudley Do-Right image of Canada needs to die.

Unlike American white collar criminals, ours like Roblaws/Weston family just have to say "Sorrey" to Canadians, offer a $25 gift card to their stores and all possible legal action disappears :haha: :facepalm:

Molson, I highly recommend buying meat from a local butcher if possible. You notice the difference in quality over our 3 Big grocery conglomerates. At this point I'd trust Costco beef over Roblaws or the other two.

[Hecate]

People can complain about corporate greed all they want, yet it’s our own governments who allow it. Companies like Loblaws are operating within the legal guidelines of what the country allows. We allow part time workers to be exploited by allowing companies to exploit them and the government does nothing to protect the people they are elected to serve. Remember when grocery store workers were heroes? lol. Yet they can’t afford to shop in the stores they work at. The corporate greed crap is all smoke and mirrors. The government holds all the blame.

[Hecate]

The best is you people advocate for benefiting the corporations. Remember when grocery bags were free? And now they’re selling them for anywhere from 30 cents to three bucks a pop! But we’re saving the environment! lol

You could also look at your parking free housing developments the same way. People are championing profits for corporations and developers under the guise of environmentalism. The only people who win in a parking less condo building are the developers.

[theman23]

Is it the grocery cartel that's the problem, or is the food supplier cartel that's the problem? We live in a country of cartels, so its hard to figure out which one we should be mad at.

[Nouvellecosse]

The best is you people advocate for benefiting the corporations. Remember when grocery bags were free? And now they’re selling them for anywhere from 30 cents to three bucks a pop! But we’re saving the environment! lol

You could also look at your parking free housing developments the same way. People are championing profits for corporations and developers under the guise of environmentalism. The only people who win in a parking less condo building are the developers.

That doesn't make any sense. We're blaming "environmentalism" for corporations choosing to not pass on reduced costs to the consumer? So we're supposed to encourage wasteful behaviour just to prevent the corporations from making extra money even though damage to the environment does a lot more to harm lower income people than to the wealthy? So then if you can't improve the environment by being more efficient since efficiency means lower costs for companies, then how do you do it? Be as inefficient as possible to stick it to both corporations and the environment?

Reusable bags can be used so many times that each use equates to a couple cents or less. I have reusable bags that I've used for YEARS and not only do they still work fine, they also don't cut into my hands as much when carrying heavy loads and it basically eliminates the risk of them breaking. So the tiny cost is irrelevant. But now that the corporations aren't spending money to provide thousands of free plastic bags per day, they should be passing on that savings to consumers. If they aren't that isn't consumer's fault. Same as not including parking with condos. Each parking space costs thousands or even tens of thousands in land, construction costs, or both. You can't simultaneously defend corporations while claiming that they're refusing to pass on any of those cost savings. If the current system is working well and doing what it's supposed to, then if it costs corporations less to produce a product or service then they will charge less to provide it to consumers. If the system isn't working well and that isn't happening, then we're right to complain.

But I agree that it's up to the government (or more precisely for us to elect a government) to make the changes to ensure a better system. And that's the whole point of complaining. If anyone views the solution as just "If we get mad then corporations will just give up billions in profits to make us happy" then they're crazy.

[MolsonExport]

^good post

[Hecate]

That doesn't make any sense. We're blaming "environmentalism" for corporations choosing to not pass on reduced costs to the consumer? So we're supposed to encourage wasteful behaviour just to prevent the corporations from making extra money even though damage to the environment does a lot more to harm lower income people than to the wealthy? So then if you can't improve the environment by being more efficient since efficiency means lower costs for companies, then how do you do it? Be as inefficient as possible to stick it to both corporations and the environment?

Reusable bags can be used so many times that each use equates to a couple cents or less. I have reusable bags that I've used for YEARS and not only do they still work fine, they also don't cut into my hands as much when carrying heavy loads and it basically eliminates the risk of them breaking. So the tiny cost is irrelevant. But now that the corporations aren't spending money to provide thousands of free plastic bags per day, they should be passing on that savings to consumers. If they aren't that isn't consumer's fault. Same as not including parking with condos. Each parking space costs thousands or even tens of thousands in land, construction costs, or both. You can't simultaneously defend corporations while claiming that they're refusing to pass on any of those cost savings. If the current system is working well and doing what it's supposed to, then if it costs corporations less to produce a product or service then they will charge less to provide it to consumers. If the system isn't working well and that isn't happening, then we're right to complain.

But I agree that it's up to the government (or more precisely for us to elect a government) to make the changes to ensure a better system. And that's the whole point of complaining. If anyone views the solution as just "If we get mad then corporations will just give up billions in profits to make us happy" then they're crazy.

The plastic bag ban in California backfired. It actually increased plastic waste and it also conveniently increased profits for major retailers. And that’s exactly what’s happening here because, well lemmings off a cliff.

Here you can read about how plastic bag waste has dramatically increased in California since the ban came into effect.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/15/climate/california-plastic-bag-ban.html

And here’s an article about the profiting off of reusable bags, these companies are making tens of millions “caring” about the environment.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/good-business-sense-coles-and-woolworths-to-rake-in-71m-profit-from-plastic-bag-ban/news-story/873158aa67b7c8bfd4490c60c0efac68?amp

[urbandreamer]

At Loblaws MLG today, I was thinking it may be time to open Galen's Got Lotsa Dough/nuts as an independent franchise
https://imgur.com/a/Sa743N3

[Nouvellecosse]

The plastic bag ban in California backfired. It actually increased plastic waste and it also conveniently increased profits for major retailers. And that’s exactly what’s happening here because, well lemmings off a cliff.

Here you can read about how plastic bag waste has dramatically increased in California since the ban came into effect.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/15/climate/california-plastic-bag-ban.html

And here’s an article about the profiting off of reusable bags, these companies are making tens of millions “caring” about the environment.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/good-business-sense-coles-and-woolworths-to-rake-in-71m-profit-from-plastic-bag-ban/news-story/873158aa67b7c8bfd4490c60c0efac68?amp

The first article is behind a paywall, but if the California legislation has a flaw in it's implementation that has little relevance to the concept writ-large. Sometimes initial policies don't foresee all variables or potential loopholes and the policy needs to be amended.

And again, no one suggested the companies are obliging with the single use plastic ban because they care about the environment. We know they're doing it because it's mandated. Your earlier post correctly pointed out that under the current system it was ultimately the government who is responsible for implementing policies to regulate companies. You therefore argued that we shouldn't direct our ire at the private sector. But now you're undermining your own argument. This was an example of a government policy implemented to prevent companies from doing something harmful, so if the corporations found some way to subvert it to their advantage then perhaps you were wrong and government regulation isn't actually effective?

Well actually, both arguments are correct. Under the current system a huge portion of society is controlled by amoral entities whose only goal is profit. So the government must act as the regulatory body to address externalities and market failures or impose values, and consumers also need to impose their values in making purchasing decisions. If a company is more profitable because of a policy then that's ok if the policy works since it's a win-win and an incentive toward compliance. But the private companies are always looking for ways to make subvert anything that hinders profit so that is a weakness in the system that we have to contend with until the system changes.

But through all of this you have yet to present your alternative solution to plastic waste. Well, other than your original solution of the governments legislating corporate behaviour which you now seem to oppose.

[Hecate]

The first article is behind a paywall, but if the California legislation has a flaw in it's implementation that has little relevance to the concept writ-large. Sometimes initial policies don't foresee all variables or potential loopholes and the policy needs to be amended.

And again, no one suggested the companies are obliging with the single use plastic ban because they care about the environment. We know they're doing it because it's mandated. Your earlier post correctly pointed out that under the current system it was ultimately the government who is responsible for implementing policies to regulate companies. You therefore argued that we shouldn't direct our ire at the private sector. But now you're undermining your own argument. This was an example of a government policy implemented to prevent companies from doing something harmful, so if the corporations found some way to subvert it to their advantage then perhaps you were wrong and government regulation isn't actually effective?

Well actually, both arguments are correct. Under the current system a huge portion of society is controlled by amoral entities whose only goal is profit. So the government must act as the regulatory body to address externalities and market failures or impose values, and consumers also need to impose their values in making purchasing decisions. If a company is more profitable because of a policy then that's ok if the policy works since it's a win-win and an incentive toward compliance. But the private companies are always looking for ways to make subvert anything that hinders profit so that is a weakness in the system that we have to contend with until the system changes.

But through all of this you have yet to present your alternative solution to plastic waste. Well, other than your original solution of the governments legislating corporate behaviour which you now seem to oppose.

The only solution, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. DEPOSITS. If we can do it for beer cans we can do it for plastic grocery bags. Get your money back when you take it back to the retailer.

You won’t have any in the landfill.

But this was never about reducing plastic, it was about selling more plastic, for more money.

20 years ago The average plastic grocery bag cost less than 1/2 a cent to produce and stores had no problem providing the service of a bag with a purchase because it’s a minuscule amount added towards the operating cost. now, people are still paying that cost plus the added cost of buying a reusable bag. A bag that is produced using even more plastic. Do you think any retailers reduced their costs by 0.002% to cover the cost of the bags they were once providing?

If retailers cared about reducing plastics, they’d demand their suppliers change their packaging or remove their products.

[Nouvellecosse]

The only solution, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. DEPOSITS. If we can do it for beer cans we can do it for plastic grocery bags. Get your money back when you take it back to the retailer.

You won’t have any in the landfill.

But this was never about reducing plastic, it was about selling more plastic, for more money.

20 years ago The average plastic grocery bag cost less than 1/2 a cent to produce and stores had no problem providing the service of a bag with a purchase because it’s a minuscule amount added towards the operating cost. now, people are still paying that cost plus the added cost of buying a reusable bag. A bag that is produced using even more plastic. Do you think any retailers reduced their costs by 0.002% to cover the cost of the bags they were once providing?

If retailers cared about reducing plastics, they’d demand their suppliers change their packaging or remove their products.

We already acknowledged that the retailer don't care. Nobody is arguing that they do. The fact that uncaring entities have so much control is what most of our complaints come down to. But I actually think the idea of deposits is a decent one. If people choose to use disposable plastics then that would give an incentive to either return it or for other people to collect and return them. But that would also incentivize many people to buy reusable bags so that two aren't mutually exclusive. I and many other people already used them before the plastic ban, both for the environment and because they're better so any additional cost or hassle would motivate even more people. And the motto of "reduce, reuse, recycle" is in that order for a reason. They're in the order from best to worst because recycling is not nearly as good for the environment as reusing things. It requires a lot of energy and creates extra waste bi-products and emissions.

But I don't agree that the ban is intended to sell plastics. The fact that reusable bags use more plastic than a single disposable bag (when they're made of plastic which not all of them are) is irrelevant since they use much less plastic per use. Which is the whole point of switching to reusable things. Assuming sinister ulterior motives is getting into the realm of conspiracy theories.

[Hecate]

It is very much a conspiracy. Big plastic and retail won! Much like Loblaws bread price fixing. Unfortunate though the damage is done.

Remember 30 years ago when you could buy Christmas lights that came with clips so you could easily hang them on your house. Then came the environmentally friendly LED models with bulbs you couldn’t change and unusable clips so awkwardly designed you had to buy additional plastic clips to attach to the lights so you can hang them. Do you think that’s a coincidence?

[lio45]

People can complain about corporate greed all they want, yet it’s our own governments who allow it. Companies like Loblaws are operating within the legal guidelines of what the country allows.Absolutely incorrect. We weren’t complaining about greed, we were complaining about fraud.

Greed is legal, fraud is illegal. Huge difference.

Galen can (try to) sell a 100g bag of chips for $20 for all I care, as long as the bag is correctly labeled as 100g.

Conversely, a “200g” bag that only contains ~100g, even if it’s only selling for a couple bucks, THAT is unacceptable — it’s literal, fucking, FRAUD. Criminal.

[someone123]

The fact that reusable bags use more plastic than a single disposable bag (when they're made of plastic which not all of them are) is irrelevant since they use much less plastic per use. Which is the whole point of switching to reusable things. Assuming sinister ulterior motives is getting into the realm of conspiracy theories.

I'm pretty skeptical of this based on my own experience. I have a pile of reusable bags like I've had for years, but sometimes I need a bag at the store for one reason or another so now I get an extra reusable bag I don't need rather than a much smaller disposable bag. It's not practical to carry reusable bags around all the time.

I have a dwindling supply of old plastic bags that were pretty useful. They would all get ~2 uses before. I'll probably be buying/using more plastic bags to cover this once the old supply is gone.

The environmental impact of all of this is minor. I feel like it was a waste of effort and political capital on an issue that has poor cost-benefit and is mostly an example of politicians making noise about easy to understand issues that make them look good.

[Wigs]

Absolutely incorrect. We weren’t complaining about greed, we were complaining about fraud.

Greed is legal, fraud is illegal. Huge difference.

Galen can (try to) sell a 100g bag of chips for $20 for all I care, as long as the bag is correctly labeled as 100g.

Conversely, a “200g” bag that only contains ~100g, even if it’s only selling for a couple bucks, THAT is unacceptable — it’s literal, fucking, FRAUD. Criminal.

We're paying so much for groceries, at the very least, the bare freaking minimum we Canadians have the audacity to believe that the weight/volume of the package/container displayed of what we buy is what's actually inside :haha:

[MolsonExport]

Absolutely incorrect. We weren’t complaining about greed, we were complaining about fraud.

Greed is legal, fraud is illegal. Huge difference.

Galen can (try to) sell a 100g bag of chips for $20 for all I care, as long as the bag is correctly labeled as 100g.

Conversely, a “200g” bag that only contains ~100g, even if it’s only selling for a couple bucks, THAT is unacceptable — it’s literal, fucking, FRAUD. Criminal.

agree completely.

https://assets.change.org/photos/4/pi/kj/nTPikJiXzyVmzPN-1600x900-noPad.jpg?1675757854

^more false advertising from Galen. He is promoting No Name, but he is quite clearly named in the above picture.
:youmad:

[urbandreamer]

I find it amusing that many of you are complaining about 5 cent plastic bags (which have proven to harm bird & fish habitats) when most of you seem to be high income professionals. Stop being so petty. Given the chance, you'd out psycho Galen himself.

[theman23]

I find it amusing that many of you are complaining about 5 cent plastic bags (which have proven to harm bird & fish habitats) when most of you seem to be high income professionals. Stop being so petty. Given the chance, you'd out psycho Galen himself.

I don't think plastic bag bans are leading to food inflation, but it fun to harp on because its the perfect example of a well intentioned but poorly thought out policy having the opposite effect it was intended to. There's plenty of data out there showing that plastic bag bans at the grocer just lead to people buying more plastic garbage bags, which in turn have a higher plastic content than grocery bags. That's not even taking into account the problem of the reusable bags that someone123 brought up.

[urbandreamer]

Canada, US, Mexico should sign a NAFTA amendment banning the use of plastic bags, wrap, garbage bags, packaging etc completely. If we can spend $120 million on a 6 day robot to the moon, surely similar money could solve this problem on Earth.

Those tote bags could be recycled cotton, price raised to $10 so consumers always have them on hand.

[jonny24]

Canada, US, Mexico should sign a NAFTA amendment banning the use of plastic bags, wrap, garbage bags, packaging etc completely. If we can spend $120 million on a 6 day robot to the moon, surely similar money could solve this problem on Earth.

Those tote bags could be recycled cotton, price raised to $10 so consumers always have them on hand.

How would garbage bags be replaced? Loose garbage in bins? My garbage guys already suck at actually emptying my bins. Seems like there'd be a lot more loose trash everywhere.

The new bags suck. Yeah they're a bit thicker, but they rip pretty easily. That's the 30 cent ones, but the store has heavier duty ones for $1 if you want.

I'll admit it. I just pay for 2 or 3 bags every time, and they go straight in the trash. We use the old plastic ones to line our little garbage baskets, and they're great for cat litter. The new ones suck for both of those, so now we use purpose bought trash bags, or use the plastic bags that our takeout comes in (why is it ok for takeout to use them? :hmm: ) For $1 per grocery shop, I can't be bothered to remember to move piles of bags to my truck.

[lio45]

We're paying so much for groceries, at the very least, the bare freaking minimum we Canadians have the audacity to believe that the weight/volume of the package/container displayed of what we buy is what's actually inside :haha:

agree completely.Let’s consider the fair and equitable reciprocal action:

Loblaws Customer brings two “200g” bags of chips to the self-checkout, scans only one, pays only one, leaves with the two “200g” bags, declares “we’re even, Galen” :tup:

How does that sound? Reasonable?

I mean, surely paying for ~200g of chips then leaving the premises with ~200g of chips can’t possibly constitute shoplifting, right? :youmad:

[someone123]

I find it amusing that many of you are complaining about 5 cent plastic bags (which have proven to harm bird & fish habitats) when most of you seem to be high income professionals. Stop being so petty. Given the chance, you'd out psycho Galen himself.

Not sure what the rules are around the whole country. Around here we had the bag fee years ago, which I don't care about (likely another net negative due to having no real value but adding some bureaucratic overhead), but now a lot of places have no bags at all and certain kinds of bags seem to be banned while other less useful kinds of bags are sometimes still provided. It's noticeably much more annoying to be a consumer in Canada than in most other countries I visit (we're above Cuba for sure).

I don't mind environmentalism but let's be creative, competent, and implement things in ways that work and make sense instead of focusing on sacrifice and moralizing. A lot of day-to-day things in Canada (or BC) are becoming more and more of a hassle with a bunch of people acting as though that's a feature and not a bug. It's harmful and insidious as a social phenomenon and it feels like things are being run by the dumbest in the room sometimes instead of the brightest.

[Hecate]

Absolutely incorrect. We weren’t complaining about greed, we were complaining about fraud.

Greed is legal, fraud is illegal. Huge difference.

Galen can (try to) sell a 100g bag of chips for $20 for all I care, as long as the bag is correctly labeled as 100g.

Conversely, a “200g” bag that only contains ~100g, even if it’s only selling for a couple bucks, THAT is unacceptable — it’s literal, fucking, FRAUD. Criminal.

I never said it wasn’t fraud, lol, so you have old Dutch and Loblaws colluding together, The government obviously doesnt care that they’re lying, because these companies are both still operating, and all they got were little fines for lying to consumers. So once again… it’s the government doing fuck all to protect the citizens it’s meant to serve.

It’s kinda like how a company can charge you for theft if you steal from them, but you can’t charge them for theft if they steal your wages. That’s how society rolls.

[WarrenC12]

I never said it wasn’t fraud, lol, so you have old Dutch and Loblaws colluding together, The government obviously doesnt care that they’re lying, because these companies are both still operating, and all they got were little fines for lying to consumers. So once again… it’s the government doing fuck all to protect the citizens it’s meant to serve.

It’s kinda like how a company can charge you for theft if you steal from them, but you can’t charge them for theft if they steal your wages. That’s how society rolls.

Perhaps the government should seize all Loblaws stores and begin operating them all.

[urbandreamer]

OMG you guys are bitching about $1.50 bags of junk food. NN chips are extremely unhealthy, so less is probably good for you.

It must be nice to 1) have a cushy job 2) spend the majority of your job bitching online about things you have no control over 3) feeling superior to the unfortunate

Why are Canadians so lazy and unproductive?!

[whatnext]

Walmart has been in Canada since 1994 so I wouldn't call the company new here. But they didn't get into the grocery business starting in 2006 so 18 years should give the company enough time to have good supply chains. Loblaws has an advantage of being a larger company within Canada still.

I agree that the groceries at Walmart aren't as good for what you pay but some people prefer it simply because they can shop for many non-grocery items at the same time.

And lord knows the Walton family are just good ol' regular folks not rapacious billionaires who destroyed small businesses and downtowns all across America.:rolleyes:

[lio45]

OMG you guys are bitching about $1.50 bags of junk food. NN chips are extremely unhealthy, so less is probably good for you.

It must be nice to 1) have a cushy job 2) spend the majority of your job bitching online about things you have no control over 3) feeling superior to the unfortunate

Why are Canadians so lazy and unproductive?!Depends how you measure “productivity”. I’ll have you know my yearly real estate appreciation per capita has been a pretty damn good performance for nearly 20 years now :P plus I can be on SSP while it works its magic.

[Nouvellecosse]

It is very much a conspiracy. Big plastic and retail won! Much like Loblaws bread price fixing. Unfortunate though the damage is done.

Remember 30 years ago when you could buy Christmas lights that came with clips so you could easily hang them on your house. Then came the environmentally friendly LED models with bulbs you couldn’t change and unusable clips so awkwardly designed you had to buy additional plastic clips to attach to the lights so you can hang them. Do you think that’s a coincidence?

Outcomes don't determine intent. The fact that something was beneficial to a person or group doesn't prove that they conspired to achieve it. You're making the common conspiracy theorist mistake of assuming that because you can think of a motive for why someone might want to do something that it automatically proves they did it. The government isn't selling plastic so unless there's proof that the decision makers who implemented the bans specifically did it to help plastic companies sell more plastic, then it is indeed a baseless conspiracy theory.

[Nouvellecosse]

I'm pretty skeptical of this based on my own experience. I have a pile of reusable bags like I've had for years, but sometimes I need a bag at the store for one reason or another so now I get an extra reusable bag I don't need rather than a much smaller disposable bag. It's not practical to carry reusable bags around all the time.

I have a dwindling supply of old plastic bags that were pretty useful. They would all get ~2 uses before. I'll probably be buying/using more plastic bags to cover this once the old supply is gone.

The environmental impact of all of this is minor. I feel like it was a waste of effort and political capital on an issue that has poor cost-benefit and is mostly an example of politicians making noise about easy to understand issues that make them look good.

The extra reusable bags definitely required extra energy and resources to create, but unless they end up getting tossed away into the environment without ever getting significant productive use then that's the main issue. Plastic waste in the ocean and other waterways is actually getting to be a fairly big problem. I personally have a few of the small fold-up nylon bags and tend to keep one with me either in my pocket or backpack so I don't usually have that problem. It's not practical to carry the bulky reusable bags but the ones I use fold down to the size of maybe a small computer mouse.

[Gresto]

The extra reusable bags definitely required extra energy and resources to create, but unless they end up getting tossed away into the environment without ever getting significant productive use then that's the main issue. Plastic waste in the ocean and other waterways is actually getting to be a fairly big problem. I personally have a few of the small fold-up nylon bags and tend to keep one with me either in my pocket or backpack so I don't usually have that problem. It's not practical to carry the bulky reusable bags but the ones I use fold down to the size of maybe a small computer mouse.
We started using the white, linen No Frills bags about 25 years ago, when they were first introduced. Unfortunately, they were soon replaced by the black, nylon ones. For Costco, I use the large Ikea bags.
As for microplastics and nanoplastics, our bodies are likely all full of them already, and no one yet knows the long-term health consequences.

[theman23]

The extra reusable bags definitely required extra energy and resources to create, but unless they end up getting tossed away into the environment without ever getting significant productive use then that's the main issue. Plastic waste in the ocean and other waterways is actually getting to be a fairly big problem. I personally have a few of the small fold-up nylon bags and tend to keep one with me either in my pocket or backpack so I don't usually have that problem. It's not practical to carry the bulky reusable bags but the ones I use fold down to the size of maybe a small computer mouse.

CBC just had a piece on this and while they didn’t really have any study to back up the segment, most people interviewed seemed to have 30 or so reusable bags lying around at home tucked away in a corner somewhere. It’s probably safe to say that the majority of these bags don’t get reused.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7092380

[Wigs]

urbandreamer, we have a right to bitch about FRAUD. And you have a right to waste your time to bitch about us bitching about fraud :haha:
I do agree that recycled cotton or linen should be the standard type of reusable bag to use instead of more plastic derivatives

If you keep the reusable bags in the trunk of your car, you'll never forget them. ;)

[Hecate]

But cotton bags are worse for the environment than plastic bags, so if people continue the trend of just buying more bags the problem gets even worse

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4822660

[Nouvellecosse]

Well there's different ways something can be better or worse for the environment. There's the issue of disposal and plastic contamination in the environment, and then there's the energy and resources needed to produce and distribute something. It can be hard to balance the pros and cons, but we also shouldn't use a lack of perfection as a distraction.

A few years ago the SciShow channel did a good breakdown. They showed that new cotton bags aren't good but reusable plastic bags are better than single use as long as you use them 6 to 11 times (depending on the study) to offset their greater climate impact during production and distribution. And of course they should be disposed of responsibly. I've easily used my reusable nylon bags many dozens of times over the years. Perhaps even hundreds. Although the thing they're the most useful for is to carry with me in case I don't have my backpack or don't have enough room for everything in my backpack.

JvzvM9tf5s0?

[MolsonExport]

Let’s consider the fair and equitable reciprocal action:

Loblaws Customer brings two “200g” bags of chips to the self-checkout, scans only one, pays only one, leaves with the two “200g” bags, declares “we’re even, Galen” :tup:

How does that sound? Reasonable?

I mean, surely paying for ~200g of chips then leaving the premises with ~200g of chips can’t possibly constitute shoplifting, right? :youmad:

agree completely.
:youmad:

[MolsonExport]

OMG you guys are bitching about $1.50 bags of junk food. NN chips are extremely unhealthy, so less is probably good for you.

It must be nice to 1) have a cushy job 2) spend the majority of your job bitching online about things you have no control over 3) feeling superior to the unfortunate

Why are Canadians so lazy and unproductive?!


https://glynnorman.com/wp-content/uploads//2014/08/miss-the-point.png

[OldDartmouthMark]

^thanks for "getting it".

Plus, I just don't like Galen. Who could? His company conspired with other oligopolies in the grocery industry to control bread prices, for more than a decade. His PC/no-name products often weigh half of what is listed on the packaging. Blatant false advertising, at best, and more likely outright fraud. Not an obsession, but the guy is certainly an asshole (there are just so many examples to corroborate this), so I don't understand at all why someone without any connection to Galen (presumably?) would feel personally slighted. Such as the likes of Whippersnapper. Galen brought it completely on himself.

https://uploads.dailydot.com/2023/09/chip-shortage.jpg?q=65&auto=format&w=1200&ar=2:1&fit=crop
‘It’s crazy how much more we pay for less now!’: Loblaws customer buys chip bag labeled as 200 grams. It only weighs 103 grams.

For sure, Galen is not the only case of corporate greed in Canada. But he has become the face of it.

Shoppers discover boxes of Cheerios, bags of Loblaws chips that weigh far less than advertised (https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2032507/shoppers-discover-boxes-of-cheerios-bags-of-loblaws-chips-that-weigh-far-less-than-advertised)

The banks are similarly engaged in such egregious behaviour, basically forcing their hapless employees (many of whom seem only slightly more intelligent than a bag of hammers) to upsell customers into financial products and insurance that they don't need/want.

I suggest that you step away from the TikTok... I finally clicked on this thread today, saw the chip conspiracy theory and recalled I happen to have an unopened bag of those exact chips that I bought for 2/$4 last week. Curiosity got the best of me, and since I happened to have a pet scale handy (it reads in kg, so it doesn't read to the gram), I put them together, and:

https://i.imgur.com/YoCEyFy.png

The scale could be off a little (though I did "calibrate" it with a pound of butter - 454g - and it read 0.45 kg...), but even if it's off by 10 or 20g, there's definitely more than half of the advertised chips in the bag.

So, the TikTok case... a manufacturing issue? Creative scale calibration in order to get attention on TikTok? We'll never know... :haha:

I just love the internet... :yuck:

[Nouvellecosse]

I didn't watch the tiktok but I suspect (or hope) the complaint isn't suggesting that every bag contains half the labeled contents since loblaws would realize that would be discovered pretty quickly. It's probably either a complaint about quality control (that some incorrectly filled bags are slipping through because of inadequate quality control) or that the Weston's are actively short changing some small percentage of batches which could save them money but may go unnoticed and allow plausible deniability if it was noticed. In either case more an issue of them not caring enough about consumers to ensure all products contain the advertised quality rather than all of them being under-filled. So showing that some are fully filled doesn't really say much about either of those possibilities. A small variance in content weight is normal and the bag itself would weight around 5g. But having half the advertised content weight is definitely an issue. How big an issue depends on how often it happens.

[MolsonExport]

I suggest that you step away from the TikTok... I finally clicked on this thread today, saw the chip conspiracy theory and recalled I happen to have an unopened bag of those exact chips that I bought for 2/$4 last week. Curiosity got the best of me, and since I happened to have a pet scale handy (it reads in kg, so it doesn't read to the gram), I put them together, and:

https://i.imgur.com/YoCEyFy.png

The scale could be off a little (though I did "calibrate" it with a pound of butter - 454g - and it read 0.45 kg...), but even if it's off by 10 or 20g, there's definitely more than half of the advertised chips in the bag.

So, the TikTok case... a manufacturing issue? Creative scale calibration in order to get attention on TikTok? We'll never know... :haha:

I just love the internet... :yuck:

I've never used tiktok

Good then, it was fixed. This was not the case originally. I suspect that it is only the tip of the iceberg. Let's face it, Roblaws has a history of ripping off customers (the great bread pricing debacle). I am sure it is not just a Roblaws problem, and probably extends to many other retailers.

The combination of shrinkflation, underweighting and inflation are killing consumers.

I worked for years in retailing, and I can say, with confidence, that price changes are asymmetrical in terms of what consumers end up paying. For example, prices go up but this may not be reflected on the label/tag. So consumers pay more than they should. Companies argue that sometimes consumers get a better deal, when prices drop and said price drop is not labelled/tagged, but an investigation revealed that in almost every such instance of a discrepancy between the advertised price and the actual price, overwhelmingly consumers pay more (not less) than the advertised price. Guess what firm was one of the worst offenders? Yep, you guessed it, the place with already inflated prices, Shoppers Dog Fart. Which is now owned by....Roblaws.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I didn't watch the tiktok but I suspect (or hope) the complaint isn't suggesting that every bag contains half the labeled contents since loblaws would realize that would be discovered pretty quickly. It's probably either a complaint about quality control (that some incorrectly filled bags are slipping through because of inadequate quality control) or that the Weston's are actively short changing some small percentage of batches which could save them money but may go unnoticed and allow plausible deniability if it was noticed. In either case more an issue of them not caring enough about consumers to ensure all products contain the advertised quality rather than all of them being under-filled. So showing that some are fully filled doesn't really say much about either of those possibilities. A small variance in content weight is normal and the bag itself would weight around 5g. But having half the advertised content weight is definitely an issue. How big an issue depends on how often it happens.

I also didn't watch the TikTok (first one was unavailable, second one wanted me to sign in, so I didn't bother as I don't do TikTok).

However, the point is that people shouldn't take random bits of information and make up a story that the store is trying to rip them off by intentionally placing less product in the bag than is displayed on the bag. There could be many reasons, but most likely is some sort of production fuck-up.

I don't work in the grocery industry, but I would be fairly sure that Loblaw's contracts out these store-labeled products, probably to the lowest bidder, with the contract provision including certain quality requirements. As a 'no name' brand, I suspect the quality provisions would include the quality of potatoes that are used for the chips (anecdotally they seem to have more imperfections than name brand chips), but there certainly wouldn't be any cost-benefit to Loblaws in not requiring the bags to reach the product weight requirement.

It's not about whether they care about the customer or not, by having a contractor who mistakenly underfills X number of bags (and we don't know what X is, do we?). It's about how much Loblaws charges the customer over and above their costs.

I posted the package that I weighed because... so what? One or two underfilled bags do not a conspiracy theory make...

[OldDartmouthMark]

I've never used tiktok

Good then, it was fixed. This was not the case originally. I suspect that it is only the tip of the iceberg. Let's face it, Roblaws has a history of ripping off customers (the great bread pricing debacle). I am sure it is not just a Roblaws problem, and probably extends to many other retailers.

The combination of shrinkflation, underweighting and inflation are killing consumers.

I worked for years in retailing, and I can say, with confidence, that price changes are asymmetrical in terms of what consumers end up paying. For example, prices go up but this may not be reflected on the label/tag. So consumers pay more than they should. Companies argue that sometimes consumers get a better deal, when prices drop and said price drop is not labelled/tagged, but an investigation revealed that in almost every such instance of a discrepancy between the advertised price and the actual price, overwhelmingly consumers pay more (not less) than the advertised price. Guess what firm was one of the worst offenders? Yep, you guessed it, the place with already inflated prices, Shoppers Dog Fart. Which is now owned by....Roblaws.

Hey, I am squarely in the camp of believing that the grocery chains are profiting greatly at our expense, on items that we can't do without (food). My opinion is that Covid supply chain issues got consumers accustomed to the idea that we may have to pay more for less, and that the grocery chains have taken advantage of our acceptance of higher prices to their financial gain. I think it's scandalous.

I've been watching shrinkflation for years, like 20 anyhow. Companies have long adhered to the practice of plateauing pricing for a period of time while shrinking their content weight (but usually maintaining the same packaging size so that the customer doesn't notice). After some period of time they will then bring the contents up to the previous weight with "new larger size" or such printed on the package, with a 'new larger price' attached. Or keep the shrunken product at the same price, while introducing a "jumbo size" of the old content weight at a higher price. It's slimy and it pisses me off... and everybody else out there who are struggling to keep their heads above water.

As far as the chips go, that's not 'shrinkflation'... IMHO it's most likely a supplier fuck-up, and also IMHO a poor example on which to base a conspiracy theory. If folks want to do it up, then find out who the supplier is, talk confidentially to the employees to see if there have been some directives from Loblaw's to intentionally remove content, randomly or whatever. That won't happen because it's difficult and risky, unless the CBC or somebody gets their hooks into it... but I suspect they won't because it's more likely that somebody pushed the wrong button on the bagger and accidentally changed the weight calibration, or something like that.

Anyways... I'm in agreement with you. I hate them and how much money they are taking out of my pocket for items that I can't live without (and I'm not talking about chips). :)

[Nouvellecosse]

I also didn't watch the TikTok (first one was unavailable, second one wanted me to sign in, so I didn't bother as I don't do TikTok).

However, the point is that people shouldn't take random bits of information and make up a story that the store is trying to rip them off by intentionally placing less product in the bag than is displayed on the bag. There could be many reasons, but most likely is some sort of production fuck-up.

I don't work in the grocery industry, but I would be fairly sure that Loblaw's contracts out these store-labeled products, probably to the lowest bidder, with the contract provision including certain quality requirements. As a 'no name' brand, I suspect the quality provisions would include the quality of potatoes that are used for the chips (anecdotally they seem to have more imperfections than name brand chips), but there certainly wouldn't be any cost-benefit to Loblaws in not requiring the bags to reach the product weight requirement.

It's not about whether they care about the customer or not, by having a contractor who mistakenly underfills X number of bags (and we don't know what X is, do we?). It's about how much Loblaws charges the customer over and above their costs.

I posted the package that I weighed because... so what? One or two underfilled bags do not a conspiracy theory make...

I don't think quality control is just about cost vs expense though. There's an important ethical element that this type of reductionism disregards. Perhaps there are cases in which the profit margin isn't unreasonable but if they performed the due diligence needed to ensure quality standards then the margin would be much tighter. Well an ethical company would realize that you can't sacrifice quality because of the potential negative effects it could have on customers. They'd realize that if they wanted to achieve a healthier profit margin they'd need to improve efficiencies in other areas. A company is not entitled to profit at any cost. There are some corners that cannot be cut. So simply concluding that "if their profit margin seems reasonable, they must not be doing anything wrong" isn't a good approach.

But yes, in this case, if the people who made the tiktok drew the conclusion that it must have been intentional malice or negligence then I agree that it was premature. But I hope you're not suggesting that people should draw the reverse conclusion by assuming it must be totally innocent when we don't have evidence to support that either. Especially when they've done things to erode the benefit of the doubt they'd normally to entitled to.

[WarrenC12]

But cotton bags are worse for the environment than plastic bags, so if people continue the trend of just buying more bags the problem gets even worse

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4822660

Love it when CBC haters use CBC links.

Here's the bottom line:
"You have to re-use the cotton bag many times before the impact is similar to the lightweight conventional plastic bag," Jonna Meyhoff Fry, one of the study's co-authors, told The Sunday Edition's host, Michael Enright. "We found, for the assumptions we had made, you had to re-use it 131 times."

Based on a weekly shopping trip, this requires more than two years of regular use.

Says nothing about the problem of microplastics in everything.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I don't think quality control is just about cost vs expense though. There's an important ethical element that this type of reductionism disregards. Perhaps there are cases in which the profit margin isn't unreasonable but if they performed the due diligence needed to ensure quality standards then the margin would be much tighter. Well an ethical company would realize that you can't sacrifice quality because of the potential negative effects it could have on customers. They'd realize that if they wanted to achieve a healthier profit margin they'd need to improve efficiencies in other areas. A company is not entitled to profit at any cost. There are some corners that cannot be cut. So simply concluding that "if their profit margin seems reasonable, they must not be doing anything wrong" isn't a good approach.

I really wasn't intending for this to be any bigger than 'I don't think that a random TikTok video should be considered good evidence for the topic', but here we are...

IMHO, you have to look at it for what it is. No name potato chips. To be able to sell them for two or three bucks a bag, they are going for low bid. Plus, I don't know how much production plant experience you have, but quality glitches happen. No excuses, it's just a reality of a production environment, and I suspect that low-end chips would have as few quality checks as possible, outside of health-related ones.

You missed the point on profit margin. It was simply 'I hate grocery stores because they make too much profit in a time of inflation when everybody is already squeezed for cash'. It's a separate point.

But I hope you're not suggesting that people should draw the reverse conclusion by assuming it must be totally innocent when we don't have evidence to support that either.

I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

[Nouvellecosse]

I really wasn't intending for this to be any bigger than 'I don't think that a random TikTok video should be considered good evidence for the topic', but here we are...

IMHO, you have to look at it for what it is. No name potato chips. To be able to sell them for two or three bucks a bag, they are going for low bid. Plus, I don't know how much production plant experience you have, but quality glitches happen. No excuses, it's just a reality of a production environment, and I suspect that low-end chips would have as few quality checks as possible, outside of health-related ones.

Well sure, I already acknowledged that the tiktok post on its own isn't proof of anything when I said "A small variance in content weight is normal and the bag itself would weight around 5g. But having half the advertised content weight is definitely an issue. How big an issue depends on how often it happens."

In other words, not a big issue if it doesn't happen very often. So if that was your only point I'm not sure why you objected to anything I said.

You missed the point on profit margin. It was simply 'I hate grocery stores because they make too much profit in a time of inflation when everybody is already squeezed for cash'. It's a separate point.



I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

So hopefully that helps clarify why it wasn't obvious.

Also, I think sometimes if you've disagreed with someone in the past it can be easy to see a new post and think, "Oh oh. A person I disagree with is saying something else. I assume I'm also going to disagree this time". I'm know I've been guilty of that myself before and it can cause one to read less carefully and conclude that disagreements exist when they really don't.

[Wigs]

I like how you weighed the bag instead of the contents inside the bag :D

None of us watched TikTok, I posted a CBC video link since apparently enough people complained to our public broadcaster :???:

See guys, manufacturing conspiracies.
Roblaws always respects the consumer. They were voted most moral corporation in Canada.

[Hecate]

Love it when CBC haters use CBC links.

Here's the bottom line:


Says nothing about the problem of microplastics in everything.

You really are a boob! I don’t hate the cbc. I actually advocate for it. But I do think it is biased, wastes money and needs restructuring. And Peter mansbridge also agrees.

As for micro plastics are they worse for the environment than the chemical pollution from cotton factories. I really don’t know but I’d say both are equally shitty. So if you want to champion stupid bag bans that have now proven to increase plastic waste be my guest.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Well sure, I already acknowledged that the tiktok post on its own isn't proof of anything when I said "A small variance in content weight is normal and the bag itself would weight around 5g. But having half the advertised content weight is definitely an issue. How big an issue depends on how often it happens."

In other words, not a big issue if it doesn't happen very often. So if that was your only point I'm not sure why you objected to anything I said.



So hopefully that helps clarify why it wasn't obvious.

Also, I think sometimes if you've disagreed with someone in the past it can be easy to see a new post and think, "Oh oh. A person I disagree with is saying something else. I assume I'm also going to disagree this time". I'm know I've been guilty of that myself before and it can cause one to read less carefully and conclude that disagreements exist when they really don't.

Yeah, sure, not objecting to anything you said, actually, just providing clarification as there sometimes seems to be slight misinterpretations to what I've written. Understandably, I might add as I'm often writing in haste, or fail to explain things carefully.

So we can agree to agree. :D

[OldDartmouthMark]

I like how you weighed the bag instead of the contents inside the bag :D

Dude... I planned to eat the contents! :haha:

[urbandreamer]

Do you weigh pizza slices? I noticed Loblaws MLG had pizza slices for $5, some clearly larger than others. Or how about phone plans? I pay $40/month for 75GB of US&Canada data from Public Mobile, while some of you may pay $90/month from Robgers.

Is it fraudulent to go to UWO, pay the same tuition as everyone else yet get a C instead of an A from Molson Ex?

[Nouvellecosse]

Do you weigh pizza slices? I noticed Loblaws MLG had pizza slices for $5, some clearly larger than others. Or how about phone plans? I pay $40/month for 75GB of US&Canada data from Public Mobile, while some of you may pay $90/month from Robgers.

Is it fraudulent to go to UWO, pay the same tuition as everyone else yet get a C instead of an A from Molson Ex?

If a product isn't sold by weight or other specific size/quantity metric, then it's up to the consumer to decide if they want to risk the purchase without knowing. Fraud isn't about bad or uncompetitive pricing. It's about lying or deception. Being offered one thing in exchange for a particular payment and not provided with what you paid for. If it was just a mistake that couldn't reasonably have been prevented then mistakes happen. But fraud specifically refers to intentional or negligent stuff.

With the university, if they don't mark your work based on the same metrics as other students then that would be a form of discrimination for sure. And if they they stated that you would get a course credit based on fulfilling a certain set of criteria which you fully fulfilled, then that could qualify if they fail to award the credit. I know obviously you're just teasing but I just want to be clear what the specific complaint is that people are raising. :P