The Black community in Canada: past and present

[Docere]

Black population of Canada prior to the 1960s. It was a pretty consistent 20,000 or so until the 1950s.

1871

Total Black population: 21,474

Ontario 13,435
Nova Scotia 6,212
New Brunswick 1,680
Quebec 147

1901

Total Black population: 17,434

Ontario 8,935
Nova Scotia 5,984
New Brunswick 1,368
Quebec 280
B.C. 532
P.E.I. 141
Manitoba 61

1931

Total Black population: 19,456

Nova Scotia 7,361
Ontario 6,886
Quebec 1,649
New Brunswick 1,150
Alberta 924
B.C. 533
Manitoba 465
Saskatchewan 410
P.E.I. 70

1961

Total Black population: 32,127

Nova Scotia 11,900
Ontario 11,062
Quebec 4,287
Alberta 1,307
New Brunswick 1,273
B.C. 1,012
Manitoba 920
Saskatchewan 285
P.E.I. 48
Newfoundland 19

[Luisito]

Good idea to start this thread. Thanks for sharing those numbers.

It's interesting the Black population of NS actually shrank from 1871 to 1907.

I am curious if most of the Black folks in New Brunswick were historically centred in st john? Or were there other pockets of Black communities scattered throughout the province?

[Docere]

Black population in cities (500 or more) 1931

Toronto 1,344 0.3%
Montreal 1,202 0.2%
Windsor 969 1.5%
Halifax 784 1.3%
Saint John 527 1.1%
Sydney 523 2.3%

[MonkeyRonin]

It's interesting the Black population of NS actually shrank from 1871 to 1907.


As did NB & Ontario (and the country overall). Many returned home to the US post-Civil War; and to a lesser extent there was some westward movement as BC & the Prairies opened up.

But also, who knows how accurate these old censuses actually were at recording stuff like this.

[Docere]

As did NB & Ontario (and the country overall). Many returned home to the US post-Civil War; and to a lesser extent there was some westward movement as BC & the Prairies opened up.

But also, who knows how accurate these old censuses actually were at recording stuff like this.

It's imperfect data. Between 1951 and 1961, the recorded Black population doubled. It doubled in Ontario and was up 50% in Nova Scotia. This was before the opening of immigration in the 1960s, so most of it I think was just more awareness in the civil rights era.

[YOWetal]

It's imperfect data. Between 1951 and 1961, the recorded Black population doubled. It doubled in Ontario and was up 50% in Nova Scotia. This was before the opening of immigration in the 1960s, so most of it I think was just more awareness in the civil rights era.

There was certainly immigration in the 1950s. The numbers started so low that even small amounts would move the numbers. I know there was some post war movement from the US for example.

Outside of Nova Scotia the black population was rounding error and puts in perspective the so called overlooking their history. There are probably 200 ethnic groups with higher populations in 1951 Ontario.

[Docere]

Here's all the counties in Canada in 1931 that were at least 1% Black (mostly in Nova Scotia).

Digby NS 646 3.5%
Annapolis NS 449 3.1%
Guysborough NS 471 3%
Shelburne NS 344 2.8%
Kent ON 1,699 2.7%
Colchester NS 568 2.3%
Halifax NS 2,341 2.3%
Yarmouth NS 347 1.7%
Hants NS 312 1.6%
Saint John NB 853 1.4%
Pictou NS 449 1.2%
Cumberland NS 369 1%
Essex ON 1,653 1%

[flar]

There was a settlement around North Buxton, Ontario. Some of the people returned to the US after the Civil War, and some remained in the community of North Buxton. Many of their descendants still live in Chatham area. Uncle Tom's Cabin is also located nearby in Dresden.

[Docere]

An NFB documentary about Dresden, Ontario:

https://www.nfb.ca/film/dresden_story/

[Docere]

1961 Census:

Black Nova Scotians:

Halifax County 5,905
Rest of NS 5,995

Black Ontarians:

Metropolitan Toronto 4,172
Essex and Kent counties 4,030

[Docere]

Black population by city, 1961:

Toronto 3,153 0.5%
Montreal 2,965 0.2%
Halifax 2,038 2.2%
Windsor 1,560 1.4%
Sydney 705 2.1%
Winnipeg 661 0.2%
Chatham 589 2%
Vancouver 572 0.1%
Saint John 554 1%

[SignalHillHiker]

I attended a Black History Month celebration at my place of work today. It was interesting - they profiled a few black Canadians and their contributions, had a dance (Simi and Hendrix were the big hits), etc.

I'd be curious to see the K-12 curriculum here today because there was little if anything related to black history when I was in school, but today kids learn that there were black people here, we built a few slave ships, etc.

Our main cultural connection with black people here is to Jamaica. Newfoundland Screech is just their rum, and a lot of their traditional cuisine is based on our salt cod. That was our centuries-long trading relationship.

Today we still have a small but growing black community in St. John's, primarily of Nigerian background but there are dozens of others. I still wouldn't want to have to find someone to give me a silk press here, but there is a black barbershop, etc., now and it's getting more common to see Jamaican products alongside the Asian ones in the international aisles of grocery stores (which as recently as a few years ago were, hilariously, half just products from the United Kingdom).

[flar]

An NFB documentary about Dresden, Ontario:

https://www.nfb.ca/film/dresden_story/

Fascinating, to me at least, because I know the town of Dresden so well. I love how calm and composed everyone is.

The video made me think of something I read when I was a kid. It concerns the black community in Dresden and baseball fights versus Wallaceburg in the late 1800s. The story is on page 60 of "A History of Wallaceburg and Vicinity"

http://images.ourontario.ca/Partners/CKPL/CKPL0027462931T.PDF

[Docere]

Also of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFIqUJlk88o

[Docere]

Third generation or more, 2021 Census

Canada 132,770 8.5%

Ontario 70,350 9%
Quebec 21,475 5%
Nova Scotia 16,790 59%
Alberta 9,325 5%
BC 7,590 12%
New Brunswick 2,720 22%
Manitoba 2,575 5.5%
Saskatchewan 1,095 5%
Newfoundland 400 11%
PEI 245 13%

[urbandreamer]

I've stopped to explore a few historic black communities/graveyards around Ontario, I believe in Port Ryerse there's some graves. Hawkesville in the Queen's Bush was an early black farming community, which ended in eviction as the land was sold to the German company from Pennsylvania, aka Mennonites. I came across another one in Huron or Bruce County iirc.

Year's ago I worked at a large bakery in Toronto that was evenly split between Portuguese and Jamaican workers. The only other white person was an Italian guy, convinced I had to be Italian because no English had worked there in 50 years. Anyway, one Jamaican woman said I was taking over their culture because I was drinking Horlicks, unaware it was an English/American invention.

[Docere]

Caribbean origin

Canada 548,060 35%

Ontario 310,820 40%
Quebec 184,755 44%
Alberta 22,945 13%
BC 13,475 22%
Manitoba 6,715 14%
Nova Scotia 3,730 13%
Saskatchewan 2,510 11%
New Brunswick 1,755 14%
PEI 530 29%
Newfoundland 470 13%


African origin*

Canada 603,910 39%

Ontario 250,735 33%
Quebec 153,295 36%
Alberta 113,350 64%
Manitoba 29,360 63%
BC 27,590 45%
Saskatchewan 14,885 66%
New Brunswick 5,590 46%
Nova Scotia 5,315 19%
Newfoundland 2,090 58%
PEI 595 33%

* excluding African, nos

[urbandreamer]

Black Africans can be very racist towards African Americans and Caribbeans I've noticed.

[Luisito]

Black Africans can be very racist towards African Americans and Caribbeans I've noticed.

The opposite can also be true. They can all be very bigoted towards each other.

[Docere]

North Preston remains well intact. The dissemination area that includes North Preston (population 672) is 78% Black and 76% Baptist by religion.

[Docere]

North and East Preston

Population 1,720
Black 1,140 66.3%
Baptist 1,045 60.8%

[Docere]

I wonder how big the Black Nova Scotian diaspora is.

Toronto's Alexandra Park was known to have a sizeable Black Nova Scotian population. Just checked the Census and 3,025 Black Ontarians were born in Nova Scotia. If those born to Nova Scotia parents are included, it's probably double that.

[Nouvellecosse]

Black Africans can be very racist towards African Americans and Caribbeans I've noticed.

I suspect it's less a matter of "racism" and more of classism. Many immigrants tend to be from the upper classes since they're the ones with the most access to education, connections, etc. while Black people in NA are disproportionately of the lower classes. Of course, some of not appreciating such associations is understandable and not necessarily a form of prejudice since it doesn't make a lot of sense to lump such very different people together. A newly landed Russian immigrant and a person with British and Scottish ancestry probably wouldn't want to be lumped together as a single community either. But when it isn't just difference and is actual classism manifesting as superiority then that's pretty gross.

But yes racism and classism tend to look similar since they're very closely related. Both cases of people assuming themselves superior based on supposed inherent differences. They often happen simultaneously in fact with people being racist because they associate certain racial groups with being lower class.

[Docere]

Apparently Toronto's some of Toronto's established Black community in the 1960s and 1970s looked down on migrants from Nova Scotia as country bumpkins.

Of course WASP politicians and media looked down on Maritimers and "Newfies" too even though most were also Anglo-Saxons.

More of a class thing, in both cases.

[Luisito]

I wonder how big the Black Nova Scotian diaspora is.

Toronto's Alexandra Park was known to have a sizeable Black Nova Scotian population. Just checked the Census and 3,025 Black Ontarians were born in Nova Scotia. If those born to Nova Scotia parents are included, it's probably double that.

I have met a few scotians that lived in regent park back in the 80s early 90s. Even one lady here in Winnipeg that was born in Nova Scotia but grew up in Regent park.

Both the singer and the rapper in this video are of Nova Scotian background. Video was shot in Regent park. The singer, JRDN grew up in Halifax though. The song is cool, the rapping part is kind of annoying .
0HcYMvbPDHM

[YOWetal]

But yes racism and classism tend to look similar since they're very closely related. Both cases of people assuming themselves superior based on supposed inherent differences. They often happen simultaneously in fact with people being racist because they associate certain racial groups with being lower class.

We should assess people as individuals which both isms avoid (along with current DEI trends but that is another issue) but these classist prejudices are or at least can be based on facts not some made up idea that melanin determines other characteristics. People who are educated and stable members of society have a right to think they are superior. Not more valuable as humans or worthy of dignity or blameless but yes we want people to contribute to society and those that are doing so absolutely have that right. Looking down on parents who let their kids hang out on the streets why they are making theirs do homework is absolutely legitimate in my book. Assuming everyone from x y or z country or culture will do that absolutely not.

I wonder how big the Black Nova Scotian diaspora is.

Toronto's Alexandra Park was known to have a sizeable Black Nova Scotian population. Just checked the Census and 3,025 Black Ontarians were born in Nova Scotia. If those born to Nova Scotia parents are included, it's probably double that.

Makes sense. Nova Scotia as a whole has a stagnant population. If the ratio is the same 100,000 white Ontarians would be born in Nova Scotia. Probably a bit high but in the ballpark?

[Nouvellecosse]

We should assess people as individuals which both isms avoid (along with current DEI trends but that is another issue) but these classist prejudices are or at least can be based on facts not some made up idea that melanin determines other characteristics. People who are educated and stable members of society have a right to think they are superior. Not more valuable as humans or worthy of dignity or blameless but yes we want people to contribute to society and those that are doing so absolutely have that right. Looking down on parents who let their kids hang out on the streets why they are making theirs do homework is absolutely legitimate in my book. Assuming everyone from x y or z country or culture will do that absolutely not.


Well a prejudice is, by definition, not based on facts. It's pre-judging someone before having all the relevant facts. Hence the name. Often because of a person's real or perceived association with other people. For example, assuming that a person is an irresponsible parent because they're poor and therefore must also do things like "let their kids hang out on the streets." And another factor is judging people outside their context. Assuming someone is a less caring or less competent parent without considering the challenges of having to work longer hours at a more taxing job, not being able to afford recreational programs for the kids, etc. When in reality, these aren't inferior people, they're just people in inferior circumstances.

Basically it's a lack of charitably in how one views others or not considering that one may not know all the facts. My mother often said that one of the hardest parts of raising a child as a low income single parent was dealing with all the judgement from other people. People who thought they had all the answers and knew what was best for others but had no clue what it was actually like.

But sure, there's nothing wrong with thinking some types of behaviours or choices are better than others as we all do that. I think choosing to exercise is better than not exercising, better to care about the environment is better than to think money or convenience is all that matters, and better to be charitable in how we view others.

[Luisito]

The main reason Africans look down on Black Americans is because they descendants of slaves. I personally have heard them say it. I remember back in 2008 Africans saying Obama would have never won the elections if he was a descendant of slaves, he is of African origin not Black American that is why he won.

On the Flip side of that I have met Black Americans that are just as hostile towards Africans, probably even more so. There is a movement in the US called FAB(foundational black americans). Black americans want to separate from other Blacks based on culture. On the surface this movement sounds reasonable as Black Americans are very different from Africans and Caribbean people, and have been in the US since before it was founded. The problem is though many are just anti immigrant and can be very hostile towards Africans and Haitians. Also, they want to rewrite history, their dislike of African is so strong, they don't even want to acknowledge their roots are in Africa. They make the claim slavery wasn't very common and that most Blacks were already here before whites. Some go as far as to say slavery never existed or that Blacks are the real native americans. I am not saying all black americans are like this but sadly this movement is catching on strong.

[Docere]

% of Black Nova Scotians in Halifax County/RM:

1931 32
1961 50
2021 73

[Docere]

Since there was some interest in Saint John, where there's a long established Black community, the Black population in the CMA is 2,355, of whom 1,150 were third generation or more. So about half are the old community and half more Black immigrants and their children.

[Docere]

Dresden, Ont.

1931 119 7.8%
1996 205 8.1%
2021 95 4.1%

Shelburne, N.S.

1931 262 17.7%
1996 115 5.3%
2021 50 3.1%

[Build.It]

As far as I know Ajax currently has the highest % at 16.8%

Brampton is at 13.12% although this is actually a bit lower than a few years ago.

[Docere]

By the 1940s, few places in Canada were as bitterly divided along racial lines as Dresden, Ontario. A small city with a substantial black population, Dresden was notorious for racial discrimination. Blacks could not eat in its three restaurants or get a haircut at its four barbershops and its beauty parlour. They were banned from all but one of its pool halls, were denied entry to the Canadian Legion except at stag parties, and did not attend the white church. Sidney Katz, who visited Dresden in October 1949 for Maclean’s magazine, later wrote that “the chances of a trained young Negro getting a good nonmanual job are almost nil. I did not find a single Negro in Dresden working in an office or waiting on customers.” Ironically, Dresden’s primary tourist attraction was Uncle Tom’s grave, as the city had once served as a terminus for an underground railway that helped black slaves escape the United States. In a 1949 municipal referendum, local citizens voted by a margin of five to one against a proposed bylaw banning discrimination (the only vote of its kind in Canadian history). The referendum question read, “Do you approve of the Council passing a by-law licensing restaurants in Dresden and restraining the owner or owners from refusing service regardless of race, color or creed?”

Morley McKay, the owner of Kay’s Café, was especially infamous in Dresden. A burly black-haired Scot with a short temper, McKay refused to serve blacks at his establishment, so the Jewish Labour Committee (JLC) arranged several “tests” of Kay’s Café. Two black volunteers entered it, McKay refused to serve them, and the JLC documented the episode and shared it with the media and politicians. The strategy infuriated McKay, who wielded a large meat cleaver at one point and appeared to have difficulty in controlling his temper. When he was interviewed by Katz, McKay said, “Do you know that for three days after I get raging mad every time I see a Negro. Maybe it’s like an animal who’s had a smell of blood.” Every time Dresden was mentioned in newspaper headlines, politicians’ stance that anti-discrimination legislation was unnecessary became increasingly difficult to maintain. Dresden provided Sid Blum, secretary for the Toronto branch of the JLC, with the ammunition he desperately needed to challenge popular perceptions about prejudice in Ontario.

https://historyofrights.ca/encyclopaedia/main-events/dresden-racial-discrimination/

[Kilgore Trout]

Crazy that we so rarely hear about places like Dresden.

I was just looking at census data and interestingly there are only two census tracts in all of Canada that have a majority Black population:

- Montreal (Montreal North) 0610.05: 51%
- Toronto (Weston) 01725.02: 50.4%

Areas in Greater Montreal with particularly large Black populations include the following:

- Cartierville (~30-50%)
- Montreal North (~30-50%)
- Norgate, VSL (~30-40%)
- Sunnybrooke (~30-40%)
- Rivière-des-Prairies (~20-30%)
- St-François, Laval (~20-30%)
- St-Michel (~20%)
- Little Burgundy (~20%)
- LaSalle (~10-20%)
- LeMoyne, Longueuil (~10-20%)
- St-Hubert, Longueuil (~10-20%)

Parts of Mascouche and Repentigny are also 10-20% Black.

[Docere]

So Little Burgundy is the closest thing to Canada's Harlem. A Black community going back to around WWI.

From where did this community emerge? I assume they were mostly West Indian.

[Docere]

The Black percentages in the GTA and Greater Montreal are pretty similar to the Greater Boston, Greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

[Kilgore Trout]

From where did this community emerge? I assume they were mostly West Indian.

I believe the community has its roots in African-Americans who moved up from the US to work as railroad porters. Little Burgundy was right behind Windsor and Bonaventure stations. They were joined by Caribbean immigrants – some of the most famous people in the area are Rufus Rockhead (jazz club owner who was from Jamaica) and Oscar Peterson (jazz musician whose parents were from St. Kitts).

Montreal was actually a fairly big destination for Caribbean immigrants up until the 1970s. The Sir George Williams protests in 1969 (when students threw computers out the windows of the Hall Building of what is now Concordia University) started because of discrimination against West Indian students.

[Luisito]

The Black percentages in the GTA and Greater Montreal are pretty similar to the Greater Boston, Greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

This is a fairly recent development though. Both LA and Boston have seen their Black communities shrink. LAs Black community is only half of what it was back in the 70s and 80s. Even LA suburbs like Compton that were like 90% Black in the 70s and 80s is only somewhere between 20-30% Black these days, and it keeps decreasing.

[Docere]

Never said they were of the same vintage.

The Los Angeles Black community is mostly from the Great Migration, particularly from Texas and Louisiana.

Toronto was only about 3% Black in 1981. Mass immigration from the Caribbean had just begun about a decade before.

[Luisito]

Never said they were of the same vintage.

.

I know you didn't, wasn't trying to imply that. Just pointing that LA had a bigger Black community at one point.

[Docere]

Black-White Index of Dissimilarity

New York MSA 0.73
Chicago MSA 0.715
Los Angeles MSA 0.597
Boston MSA 0.574
San Francisco MSA 0.551
Toronto CMA 0.512
Minneapolis MSA 0.477
Seattle MSA 0.424

[kwoldtimer]

What is an Index of Dissimilarity and what do the numbers mean?

[Kilgore Trout]

It's a measure of segregation. The higher the number, the more the group in question is concentrated in certain pockets.

For instance, here's a 2017 dissimilarity index for immigrants in the big three Canadian CMAs:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-657-x/2016002/tbl/tbl11-eng.htm

You can see that the cities of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver are all similar, but Montreal's CMA has a much higher dissimilarity index because off-island suburbs had significantly less immigrant population than the city, whereas immigrants are more evenly spread throughout the suburbs of Vancouver and Toronto.

[Docere]

Of the NA metropolitan areas listed, Blacks represent a larger share of the population in NYC and Chicago but the rest have similar Black shares. Not surprisingly NYC and Chicago are the most segregated. Minneapolis and Seattle are lower than the other American cities and these cities weren't major centers in the Great Migration.