Regional differences in urban form/typology

[Docere]

How does urban form/typology/development differ across Canada?

Interestingly what made me think of this question was noticing some similarities between Vancouver and Winnipeg. What the two have in common is they are the "old" Western cities which meant they really took off around the turn of the 20th century and don't have much of a 19th century element. Can't quite put my finger on it, but there's some similarities between the Exchange District and Gastown. Also River Heights and Tuxedo look rather similar to West Side Van neighborhoods like Point Grey, Dunbar and Kerrisdale. There's also a rather sharp geographic divide historically in those cities (east/west in Van, north/south in Winnipeg) and that was reflected in the strong class-based politics in the early 20th century. There was more of "a working class side of town" than there was in Toronto for example.

[hipster duck]

It varies by space (region) and time throughout Canada.

Within Ontario alone, I'd see prewar differences in the following places that can be loosely clumped together:

Inner city Toronto's tight semi-detached home districts. Some shades of inner city Toronto in Lower Hamilton, parts of Ottawa

Eastern Ontario - Kingston, Brockville, Port Hope, Cobourg, PEC, the towns along the Rideau canal and Lanark Counties.

The Grand and Speed River valley towns - Guelph, Elora, Fergus, Galt, Paris.

Windsor's Detroit influence.

Northern Ontario's frontier look

Franco-Ontario's (lower Ottawa river valley + Cornwall) Quebec influence

[niwell]

It varies by space (region) and time throughout Canada.

Within Ontario alone, I'd see prewar differences in the following places that can be loosely clumped together:

Inner city Toronto's tight semi-detached home districts. Some shades of inner city Toronto in Lower Hamilton, parts of Ottawa



It's interesting that while parts of Hamilton share broad similarities with Old Toronto's built form it feels "airier" and noticeably less eclectic. More speculatively built homes resulting in uniform rows as reflective of big industry in the past. Ottawa does have that eclecticism in some old areas, but also proportionately more small apartment blocks.

Inner Toronto is pretty unique in the apparent SFH typology yet very tightly packed and often designed for multiple units. Most places of similar density had more apartment blocks and obvious row-housing. Lots of reasons for this which have been discussed on here before.

[SignalHillHiker]

The main differences I've noticed in my travels on the mainland have been:

- Other cities tend to have neutral colours for homes. There are some bright colours, especially in the Maritimes, but it's not the norm as it is here.
- We have very few brick homes compared to most other places. There are some here, brick or stone, but most have been commercial buildings for generations now and don't even read as homes to me anymore.
- We have one house that I've seen here clad with stucco and it feels like someone airlifted it here from mainland Canada every time I see it. In Winnipeg, almost every house was stucco. In my mind, it reads as the spray-on fire-retardant insulation. It all looks unfinished.
- There's a band of duplexes around the entire core that serves as bit of the missing middle for us. It's clear-cut, car-centric, and completely suburban with absolutely no other saving grace other than existing as a housing option for people.
- We have true exurbia, which is a negative and fortunately doesn't seem to exist in much of mainland Canada. Especially on the prairies, suburbs tend to lead directly into farmland. Here we have that typically American urban form with houses dotted everywhere well beyond suburban subdivisions.
- We don't do small town downtowns here. The smallest prairie towns have a better main street than any municipality on this island except St. John's. We have towns of 20K+ that couldn't compete with, say, Beausejour, Manitoba. And we have dozens of towns of 1-5K that have no main street to speak of, and almost no amenities.

[urbandreamer]

Winnipeg and Edmonton are very similar: long main streets with failing small businesses, empty storefronts surrounded by neat rows of tree-lined woodframed semis and further out, small 1920s-50s bungalows. Many parking lots downtown, a distinct government area, shiny ambitious but rather pathetic attempts at urban infill/renewal and really the main growth being cheap ugly suburban sprawl. Separate university campuses with decent prewar built form across the river.

Brandon, Lethbridge, Regina, Moose Jaw are very similar to smaller Ontario cities like Windsor, Sarnia, Orillia, Lindsay, Peterborough, Stratford. Moose Jaw could be Woodstock or Chatham.

Most of Canada's cities were laid out by railroad executives between the 1860s & 1890s so of course they'll be similar, built by Scottish/Scots-Irish Masons with English catalog architecture, mostly reflecting smaller cities and towns across England, Scotland and Ireland.

Today I was exploring Fairbanks/Earlscourt/Oakwood areas of Toronto: again aside from the brick cladding, the built form with a mix of tiny bungalows, detached and semis with quite a number of apartment buildings is seen anywhere from Edmonton to South of Broadway Vancouver to Regina etc.

Canada: mostly built by the Scots and designed by the English. More Ulsterman in Ontario/West vs Glaswegians in Montreal and Empire Loyalists/English Yankees in Sherbrooke/Eastern Townships and Upper Class English/French in Quebec City.

[kwoldtimer]

The main differences I've noticed in my travels on the mainland have been:

- Other cities tend to have neutral colours for homes. There are some bright colours, especially in the Maritimes, but it's not the norm as it is here....

At least in Southern Ontario, bright house colours tend to be associated with low class/poor taste. I recall reading an article once that compared bright house colours to "a bloody gash" in the winter landscape. I have noticed, however that some larger structures in Ottawa have started to sprout brightly coloured panels, so maybe things are changing. Bright colours on front doors have also become more common.

[Docere]

Winnipeg and Edmonton are very similar: long main streets with failing small businesses, empty storefronts surrounded by neat rows of tree-lined woodframed semis and further out, small 1920s-50s bungalows. Many parking lots downtown, a distinct government area, shiny ambitious but rather pathetic attempts at urban infill/renewal and really the main growth being cheap ugly suburban sprawl. Separate university campuses with decent prewar built form across the river.

Yes Edmonton is kind of like an overgrown Winnipeg in the oilpatch.

[urbandreamer]

Grimsby's painted ladies were built for the Upper Class English. The Beach also has colorful homes. Oh and Buffalo! The posh middle class areas are in glorious colors, and of course Vancouver! This idea that color is low class is nonsense. Grey is cheap, and all these grey new builds a sign that New Canadians are very cheap peasants.

[Docere]

Today I was exploring Fairbanks/Earlscourt/Oakwood areas of Toronto: again aside from the brick cladding, the built form with a mix of tiny bungalows, detached and semis with quite a number of apartment buildings is seen anywhere from Edmonton to South of Broadway Vancouver to Regina etc.

York Township (i.e. old borough/city of York) and the former municipality of South Vancouver (city south of King Edward and east of Cambie) were both working class fringe areas in the early 20th century.

[Docere]

It varies by space (region) and time throughout Canada.

Within Ontario alone, I'd see prewar differences in the following places that can be loosely clumped together:

Inner city Toronto's tight semi-detached home districts. Some shades of inner city Toronto in Lower Hamilton, parts of Ottawa

Eastern Ontario - Kingston, Brockville, Port Hope, Cobourg, PEC, the towns along the Rideau canal and Lanark Counties.

The Grand and Speed River valley towns - Guelph, Elora, Fergus, Galt, Paris.

Windsor's Detroit influence.

Northern Ontario's frontier look

Franco-Ontario's (lower Ottawa river valley + Cornwall) Quebec influence

Is Peterborough an Eastern Ontario city in your view?

[Build.It]

Some random observations:

- Edmonton probably has the most consistent street grid in the country. The newer areas have cul-de-sacs, but anything built before the 80s is made up of a set of almost square grids, with alleys in between.

- On the topic of alleys - that is very much a prairie province thing. Almost all homes in Calgary and Edmonton have a detached garage backing onto an alley in out back.

- Another interesting thing in Edmonton at least, is that there is about a 1.5" height gap between peoples' driveways and the road. This always confused me until the first winter arrived and I realized they don't plow the roads. Over the course of the winter the snow gets compacted/crushed, and basically levels out with the driveways.

- On the topic of concrete ... in Southern Ontario at least half of the utility poles and street lighting poles are made of concrete. There's nowhere else in Canada that you will find such a large use of concrete poles - considering how heavy they are to work with, and expensive to transport. The reason for this of course is that Southern Ontario is the hotbed of concrete production (numerous quarries, St. Marys, Lafarge are all here, as are a large number downstream finished good producers), so the all-in cost is relatively cheap - but this only applies in Ontario. Once you get about 200km away, steel becomes cheaper because of the extra transportation costs. It doesn't surprise me that the Ontario Tall Wall, which uses a lot more concrete than Jersey barriers, comes from Ontario. What steel is to Pittsburgh, concrete is to Ontario (to an extent).

- Where Edmonton is consistent street grid, Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge is the complete opposite. It's a mishmash of windy curvy roads, many of which will sometimes start going north, then west, then south for a minute, back west, etc. It takes about 2 weeks to get to know Edmonton's streets, but about 6 months to get to know KW's streets lol. KW also has an absurd number of roundabouts. Most of them are okay, but some of them are overkill, eg. this example of two massive roundabouts 100m apart:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/drdwpPbbm13M9Y6V8

- The GTA's freeways are on a completely different level. There is nowhere else in Canada that you will find multiple highways that are each 10 lanes wide for such long distances. They are also all consistently 100 km/h. Montreal is the closest equivalent, however the freeways are smaller, and a lot of them have 70 km/h speed limits. There is also nowhere else in Canada that I've seen signs on highways saying "Minor collision? Steer it and clear it." ... meaning, unless someone's dying get the f out of the way, our traffic is bad enough already.

- Windsor and Niagara Falls have a LOT of war-time bungalows as a % of their housing stock. I suspect it's due to a slow down in their growth starting in the 70s, so while other places kept building new houses with new architecture, these two slowed down. But it pretty cool when you enter them and see all these well maintained houses built in the 40s. Most of these that were built in the GTA have been torn down by now, but not in Windsor and Niagara Falls it seems.

- Calgary has a lot of clay-tile roofs. Only place in Canada that I've seen this. It reminded me of the houses you would see in and around Johannesburg (where they also get torrential hail storms).

- A very high percentage of cars in Windsor (my estimate is 80% or so), are made by one of the Big 3 American automakers. Makes sense given the proximity to Detroit and the local production. But it's interesting none-the-less that the automotive pride crossed the border. Of course when you cross the border into Detroit it's like 90% lol. Barely any Toyotas across the river, but not very many Windsor either.

- St Thomas, ON has a 2-lane grade separated expressway (map link (https://maps.app.goo.gl/zwzRmirU3HJbBBqD7)). Granted it's a very short section, but this is very rare to see and I found it interesting. I believe St John's has one as well.

- Quebec City has by far the most advanced freeway network of our mid-sized cities, even beating larger cities like Edmonton and Calgary in this regard.

[niwell]

- Calgary has a lot of clay-tile roofs. Only place in Canada that I've seen this. It reminded me of the houses you would see in and around Johannesburg (where they also get torrential hail storms).




This is a comparison I've never heard before! I wouldn't say they're exactly common in Calgary, but it still seems to have significantly more than any other Canadian city. The only part of the city that has enough to make an impression IMO are the neighbourhoods West of Sarcee but East of 69th SW - Signal Hill, Coach Hill etc. My dad/stepmom's place has one just west of the city and they had to have a significantly more reinforced ceiling joists to support the weight. They're everywhere in Joburg but houses tend to be much more low-slung - thatch roofs are very common too.

I can see the similarity between Signal Hill and Greenstone, which is one of the most "North American" feeling places in Joburg (though more like Southern California)

Signal Hill: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GYwKpJRu515PkP3K7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zDVfdDcinexMdFJX6

Greenstone: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hp4o6fCMj4mpEq127
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TUtBVJco8HVZY4cg6

I will say that while impressive, the thunderstorms / hail storms I experienced growing up in the West of Calgary had nothing on the big summer Joburg storms. Really felt like the sky was just falling.

[Drybrain]

Not really a difference in typology, but something I was reminded of when I was visiting Calgary last week: in both Calgary and Edmonton (and I’m guessing other prairie cities?) it looks to me as if there is a lot of tear-down and rebuild of inner-city houses when new owners acquire an old property. Whereas in central and eastern Canada, the tendency is more to renovate—in some cases basically down to the studs, but renovate nonetheless. This has lent the inner residential parts of the prairie cities with a constantly evolving look reflective of current design trends more than a past vernacular.

Not sure why this is, and I can’t back it up with data, but it’s an impression I’ve long had. If I had to guess, I’d guess that it has to do with older western houses often being perhaps smaller and plainer when built, something like this (https://goo.gl/maps/NQuTue7NPKG56NSLA), whereas in other parts of the country they were generally larger and continue to suit current residents reasonably well, size-wise—purely a hunch, but I’d be curious if there’s any info on the average size a Calgary house in the 1920s and a Toronto house of the time.

But just as a general impression, it feels as if inner-city areas in, say, Toronto or Halifax are largely full of old houses—to use some Halifax examples, they may be a little worse for wear (https://goo.gl/maps/3E3TxvLZq1PRwcU28), or beautifully restored (https://goo.gl/maps/UqEsPKnruR7U5HCD8), or given a stripped down modern look (https://goo.gl/maps/8QRehXqtTgd4VtKB8), but the structures are old.

Whereas in Calgary there is a lot of new building like this (https://goo.gl/maps/cpirH1DMTFXAfFXS9). If you look through areas like Mission and Hillhurst and Sunnyside and look back through Streetview’s historical imagery, you can see the process unfold over the years—lots of before (https://goo.gl/maps/pFaW5Kj8ugQwa73G9) and after (https://goo.gl/maps/tU7riCpsoQN4EU8z6).

Not saying either is better; there’s local logic to both. (Though the wisdom of maintaining all these single family houses in the urban core—whether old ones or larger, newer ones—is another matter.)

[jonny24]

Not sure why this is, and I can’t back it up with data, but it’s an impression I’ve long had. If I had to guess

Permitting difference? Maybe it's easier to get approval for a new build, vs if it's a pain in the ass you just renovate? :shrug:

[Loco101]

It varies by space (region) and time throughout Canada.

Within Ontario alone, I'd see prewar differences in the following places that can be loosely clumped together:

Inner city Toronto's tight semi-detached home districts. Some shades of inner city Toronto in Lower Hamilton, parts of Ottawa

Eastern Ontario - Kingston, Brockville, Port Hope, Cobourg, PEC, the towns along the Rideau canal and Lanark Counties.

The Grand and Speed River valley towns - Guelph, Elora, Fergus, Galt, Paris.

Windsor's Detroit influence.

Northern Ontario's frontier look

Franco-Ontario's (lower Ottawa river valley + Cornwall) Quebec influence

Northern Ontario has some huge differences within it. The biggest difference is between remote First Nations you can't drive to and anywhere you can drive to. Different societies and lifestyles. Timmins is much more like Toronto than anywhere on the James Bay coast.

[niwell]

To Calgary's credit in inner-city areas they often tear down 1950s bungalows on large lots and replace with a semi-detached or two houses. On the downside it's destroying the original character of the neighbourhood but also creating areas with a bit more density to support local services.

[niwell]

Northern Ontario has some huge differences within it. The biggest difference is between remote First Nations you can't drive to and anywhere you can drive to. Different societies and lifestyles. Timmins is much more like Toronto than anywhere on the James Bay coast.

Yes! I've posted this before but a lot of Timmins neighbourhoods remind me of the York "unplanned suburbs" era of Toronto where people just built houses on platted land. The Earlscourt area urbandreamer referenced above. It's not as tightly packed but kind of a similar vibe.

Sudbury has vestiges of urban Southern Ontario amongst more modern stuff. It looks like it was meant to be a big city in certain areas. Dryden reminds me of larger cities in Alberta in form. TBay is a bit of it's own thing.

[Docere]

[deleted]

[Djeffery]

- St Thomas, ON has a 2-lane grade separated expressway (map link (https://maps.app.goo.gl/zwzRmirU3HJbBBqD7)). Granted it's a very short section, but this is very rare to see and I found it interesting. I believe St John's has one as well.



The province is planning to twin this and put in a new section around Talbotviille, joining up with highway 4 to provide 4 lane access from the 401 to the new VW battery plant. Will be full freeway standard from the east end of St Thomas to some point between the Wonderland interchange and highway 4.

[Architype]

The main differences I've noticed in my travels on the mainland have been:

- Other cities tend to have neutral colours for homes. There are some bright colours, especially in the Maritimes, but it's not the norm as it is here.
...


Vancouver's older houses were wood siding to begin with, and on many older properties the stucco has been removed. Because wood construction lends itself to colour, there are some similarities to be found, like on this street. It is interesting to note the differences in the colour choices between the two coasts.

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/52/479852/1/174275558.4M8PeSSk.10thAveVancouverstreetview1.jpg
https://maps.app.goo.gl/p69ZZj3gQ7m4HrLg8

[Proof Sheet]

This brick colour is what I think of when I think of SW Ontario. In eastern Ontario it is quite rare

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wrzk1V7ZBxK8kcxX9

[Docere]

But just as a general impression, it feels as if inner-city areas in, say, Toronto or Halifax are largely full of old houses—to use some Halifax examples, they may be a little worse for wear (https://goo.gl/maps/3E3TxvLZq1PRwcU28), or beautifully restored (https://goo.gl/maps/UqEsPKnruR7U5HCD8), or given a stripped down modern look (https://goo.gl/maps/8QRehXqtTgd4VtKB8), but the structures are old.

The New England influence in the Maritimes is quite evident in these Halifax pics.

[urbandreamer]

This brick colour is what I think of when I think of SW Ontario. In eastern Ontario it is quite rare

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wrzk1V7ZBxK8kcxX9

It's called Brampton or Brantford white brick, because the local clay had less iron deposits and thus produced a white not red color in the kiln. Love it with green trim, the grey wooden steps and porch: the only place grey is permitted in residential architecture! (By the order of good taste & economic sense. Remember, grey paint is cheap! Paupers paint.)

[Architype]

...
But just as a general impression, it feels as if inner-city areas in, say, Toronto or Halifax are largely full of old houses—to use some Halifax examples, they may be a little worse for wear (https://goo.gl/maps/3E3TxvLZq1PRwcU28), or beautifully restored (https://goo.gl/maps/UqEsPKnruR7U5HCD8), or given a stripped down modern look (https://goo.gl/maps/8QRehXqtTgd4VtKB8), but the structures are old.

...

I lived in the green house (https://maps.app.goo.gl/kDxgDDKsHu8YBFBy7) with the red trim, in the "beautifully restored" link for a few months. It's nice to see they look so good now. :)

[Build.It]

Bricks are another interesting topic unto itself. In southern and SW Ontario developers almost exclusively use bricks for the exterior cladding of buildings. Somewhere around Kingston is where Istart noticing that they use bricks for the front, but for the sides and rear thry'll some sort of siding instead. In Edmonton developers almost never use brick. They'll use sidings for the e tire house, but these sidings will typically be of a higher quality than you will ever see used on Ontario homes.

I don't know much about the buildings cladding business, but there must be some economic reason for this - probably due to where the producers are located and how much freight is a factor in the transportation of their products. My assumption is that bricks are only made in Ontario, but because they're so heavy, freight quickly becomes more expensve the further out you go (flatbed trucks are a lot more expensive than regular 40ft trailers for various reasons).

[O-tacular]

This is a comparison I've never heard before! I wouldn't say they're exactly common in Calgary, but it still seems to have significantly more than any other Canadian city. The only part of the city that has enough to make an impression IMO are the neighbourhoods West of Sarcee but East of 69th SW - Signal Hill, Coach Hill etc. My dad/stepmom's place has one just west of the city and they had to have a significantly more reinforced ceiling joists to support the weight. They're everywhere in Joburg but houses tend to be much more low-slung - thatch roofs are very common too.

I can see the similarity between Signal Hill and Greenstone, which is one of the most "North American" feeling places in Joburg (though more like Southern California)

Signal Hill: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GYwKpJRu515PkP3K7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zDVfdDcinexMdFJX6

Greenstone: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hp4o6fCMj4mpEq127
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TUtBVJco8HVZY4cg6

I will say that while impressive, the thunderstorms / hail storms I experienced growing up in the West of Calgary had nothing on the big summer Joburg storms. Really felt like the sky was just falling.

I grew up in Woodbine in the SW and we had to get our red tile roof redone with grey clay or slate tiles after a nasty hailstorm. They were fairly common there and in other 90’s neighbourhoods mimicking California with the pastel stucco and tile roofs.

[Build.It]

My dad/stepmom's place has one just west of the city and they had to have a significantly more reinforced ceiling joists to support the weight. They're everywhere in Joburg but houses tend to be much more low-slung - thatch roofs are very common too.

That's interesting about the angles of the roofs - I never noticed it before until you mentioned.

House construction over there is quite different there though. There are no basements and the entire house's walls are made bricks and there is no insulation at all. The winters aren't cold enough to justify that extra expense, and people would rather just use space heaters in every room.

And then of course the elephant in the room is that every house in the developed areas has a wall with barbed wire around it. From a Canadian perspective it sounds so surreal, but I remember that just being completely normal.

[niwell]

That's interesting about the angles of the roofs - I never noticed it before until you mentioned.

House construction over there is quite different there though. There are no basements and the entire house's walls are made bricks and there is no insulation at all. The winters aren't cold enough to justify that extra expense, and people would rather just use space heaters in every room.

And then of course the elephant in the room is that every house in the developed areas has a wall with barbed wire around it. From a Canadian perspective it sounds so surreal, but I remember that just being completely normal.


Joburg winters are colddddd inside! No insulation - when it’s 6 degrees outside it’s no more than 13 inside. And yeah the space heaters. My pals there didn’t understand how we withstood Canadian winters and I had to explain insulation and central heating!

Razor wire is mostly in lower-middle class areas. Most of north Joburg has electric fences that automatically trip the alarm when touched. Are you from SA? I just lived there for a bit. Amazing place but there’s a lot of stuff we would find shocking here. Our backyard cottage in a house had a 10 ft wall with an electric fence and cctv (it didn’t work, just a deterrent). Some of my friends places have pretty high tech security - others have none and have had no issues as they go with the “don’t make a target” approach. All our windows had burglar bars and the main sliding door had a slam gate we made sure was closed at night.

Speaking of urban typography I made sure to stay in places that were walkable and did most of my errands on foot. Have some friends in the CBD who have never owned a car too.

[urbandreamer]

Is Johannesburg affordable for a month vacation? My mother, grandmother and great grandmother all lived there off and on between 1902 and 1962.

[north 42]

Winnipeg and Edmonton are very similar: long main streets with failing small businesses, empty storefronts surrounded by neat rows of tree-lined woodframed semis and further out, small 1920s-50s bungalows. Many parking lots downtown, a distinct government area, shiny ambitious but rather pathetic attempts at urban infill/renewal and really the main growth being cheap ugly suburban sprawl. Separate university campuses with decent prewar built form across the river.

Brandon, Lethbridge, Regina, Moose Jaw are very similar to smaller Ontario cities like Windsor, Sarnia, Orillia, Lindsay, Peterborough, Stratford. Moose Jaw could be Woodstock or Chatham.

Most of Canada's cities were laid out by railroad executives between the 1860s & 1890s so of course they'll be similar, built by Scottish/Scots-Irish Masons with English catalog architecture, mostly reflecting smaller cities and towns across England, Scotland and Ireland.

Today I was exploring Fairbanks/Earlscourt/Oakwood areas of Toronto: again aside from the brick cladding, the built form with a mix of tiny bungalows, detached and semis with quite a number of apartment buildings is seen anywhere from Edmonton to South of Broadway Vancouver to Regina etc.

Canada: mostly built by the Scots and designed by the English. More Ulsterman in Ontario/West vs Glaswegians in Montreal and Empire Loyalists/English Yankees in Sherbrooke/Eastern Townships and Upper Class English/French in Quebec City.

Not to nitpick, but Windsor is a mid sized Ontario city, and has a Metro population At least 4 times these other cities you list it with, plus I don’t see any similarities at all with those western Canada cities you compared it to.

[urbandreamer]

True, Windsor is more like Lachine or Jean Talon, not surprising since the French planned the city. Maybe Thunder Bay is a bit like Windsor: two separate downtown areas strung together by a grid of SFH and rundown main streets. I really like Windsor but I'd rather live in Detroit, or rather, Ann Arbor. Aside from Calgarians, Windsorites are refreshingly outgoing and friendly.

[thewave46]

Northern Ontario's frontier look

That's a kind assessment.

I would call it a 'company town' look.

[Build.It]

Are you from SA? I just lived there for a bit. Amazing place but there’s a lot of stuff we would find shocking here.

Yeah. Our family moved here when I was a kid though and I haven't been back since I was 10 in the 90s, but I still remember quite a bit, and obviously hear a lot from relatives. I would like to visit again as an adult, but have been putting it off for 10 years now.

It's interesting to hear how the country has changed. Car guards weren't very common when we lived there for example. Nor were electric fences. Crime was very high back then as well, but back then people had more basic security systems, and just risked it a bit more when they went out.

[Djeffery]

Bricks are another interesting topic unto itself. In southern and SW Ontario developers almost exclusively use bricks for the exterior cladding of buildings. Somewhere around Kingston is where Istart noticing that they use bricks for the front, but for the sides and rear thry'll some sort of siding instead. In Edmonton developers almost never use brick. They'll use sidings for the e tire house, but these sidings will typically be of a higher quality than you will ever see used on Ontario homes.

I don't know much about the buildings cladding business, but there must be some economic reason for this - probably due to where the producers are located and how much freight is a factor in the transportation of their products. My assumption is that bricks are only made in Ontario, but because they're so heavy, freight quickly becomes more expensve the further out you go (flatbed trucks are a lot more expensive than regular 40ft trailers for various reasons).

Funny enough, my first 2 houses we built in London in 1996 and 2002 had brick front and vinyl siding on the sides and rear. It was a very expensive upgrade to brick the entire house. This was one of those streets, now a student neighbourhood.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.0177729,-81.1952471,3a,75y,253.03h,81.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy3UXNWZnBHAKiRbIOgP81w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[ssiguy]

Windsor's road layout in very interesting and probably the only one like in English Canada. This is due to Windsor being originally a French settlement and long thin roads from a river is typical of French Canada. This was to allow as many houses as possible to have access to a river exactly the same as you see on the St/Lawrence in Quebec.

London is renowned for it's yellow brick houses and has more than any other place in the country. Speaking of brick, it is one of the first things I noticed when coming to Vancouver..........there are basically no brick homes at all which is a shame because they tend to age much better than wood or especially the horrible vinyl siding. Traditional rowhomes are essentially non-existent anywhere in BC which is a shame as they wouldn't have been as easy to tear down like all the SFHs have been.

[MonkeyRonin]

Permitting difference? Maybe it's easier to get approval for a new build, vs if it's a pain in the ass you just renovate? :shrug:

I think the bigger difference is that housing in inner cities in the east tends to be attached & lots are smaller, making it harder to redevelop. That, and the existing stock of housing is generally comprised of larger, well-built brick & masonry structures as opposed to first wave of modest wood-framed homes in the Prairies.

Many of the nice old heritage homes you see in places like Toronto or Montreal were themselves replacements of hastily-built Georgian (or earlier Victorian)-era housing.


Yes! I've posted this before but a lot of Timmins neighbourhoods remind me of the York "unplanned suburbs" era of Toronto where people just built houses on platted land. The Earlscourt area urbandreamer referenced above. It's not as tightly packed but kind of a similar vibe.

Sudbury has vestiges of urban Southern Ontario amongst more modern stuff. It looks like it was meant to be a big city in certain areas. Dryden reminds me of larger cities in Alberta in form. TBay is a bit of it's own thing.

I've explored Timmins a bit on streetview, and yeah, the inner residential neighbourhoods like they could be straight out of the York/Eglinton West/Keele/Dufferin area. It's of a similar vintage & scale - just less brick. Also has a very Southern European population - which doesn't really impact the architecture, but it lends some similarities to some of the landscaping & decoration you see:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fYxpW9aa7cMu9Pyd7

Sault Ste. Marie has some interesting, narrow residential streets, though the built density is still much "airier" than Timmins:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zQVE5ktzFGqt2Dws7

Thunder Bay reminds me a bit of an American Rustbelt town - there are some surprisingly grand old structures (including a couple pre-war high rises), but there's otherwise a lot of abandonment and visible decay. It's a city that feels like it was meant for a much bigger population:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oJcmLk3FXqNttpLn9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PG5ucBUUmWpjKuP39

[Docere]

Neither Toronto or Ottawa don't really have a rich side of town and a working class side of town in the way you do in Montreal, Vancouver or Winnipeg - i.e. draw down a certain street or river and all the richest areas lie on one side of it.

(Many other cities seem to follow the working class east/more affluent west pattern: Hamilton, London, Kingston).

[Djeffery]

I think maybe in Toronto's case, it was a matter of the city spreading out so much and absorbing surrounding communities. Those surrounding communities may have started their own east/west thing but when the entire area fills up, your west end now becomes part of the next city's east end. Hamilton doesn't really have a choice, the lake kind of dictates which way they grow.

London isn't hemmed in by anything other than lines on a map, which have changed over the decades. So the higher end housing keeps spreading upwind to the west and north, and the somewhat more affordable housing finds its way among the industrial east side of town. You can still see smaller examples of the historical communities that originally merged to make London and how they had their east/west working class/business class divides.

[kwoldtimer]

It's called Brampton or Brantford white brick, because the local clay had less iron deposits and thus produced a white not red color in the kiln. Love it with green trim, the grey wooden steps and porch: the only place grey is permitted in residential architecture! (By the order of good taste & economic sense. Remember, grey paint is cheap! Paupers paint.)

I've never heard those names before. Growing up in Kitchener, we always referred to it as "buff brick".

[Docere]

I think maybe in Toronto's case, it was a matter of the city spreading out so much and absorbing surrounding communities. Those surrounding communities may have started their own east/west thing but when the entire area fills up, your west end now becomes part of the next city's east end.

Not sure about that. In the expansion of the city up until WWI, annexation occurred before the population growth.

There is however a westward bias to growth in Toronto. The inner city west end has about twice the population as the east end. And the east tended to develop a bit later:

https://southofbloorstreet.blogspot.com/2015/09/why-east-end-developed-later-than-west.html

West end was mostly built up by 1914, the east end continued to grow during the interwar period. Also the old borough of York is a bit older than equidistant East York.

[jonny24]

Never heard it call Brampton or Brantford brick. I always just called it "yellow brick", though I also heard "buff brick" used. Since learning (probably on SSP) that it's an Ontario thing, I call it Ontario Yellow Brick.

If I can ever afford to build my own house, that's what it's going to be clad in. All the nice old farmhouses I grew near have it.

[kwoldtimer]

Is Johannesburg affordable for a month vacation? My mother, grandmother and great grandmother all lived there off and on between 1902 and 1962.

A month in the Cape would be much nicer, imo.

[savevp]

Neither Toronto or Ottawa don't really have a rich side of town and a working class side of town in the way you do in Montreal, Vancouver or Winnipeg - i.e. draw down a certain street or river and all the richest areas lie on one side of it.

(Many other cities seem to follow the working class east/more affluent west pattern: Hamilton, London, Kingston).

I've always found it interesting how the original east/west split in London, England is so oft-reflected in Canadian cities. And in Toronto's case, how demographically similar the 'East' and 'West' parts of each city tend to be. Especially the East's. And to the original post above, I think the Don Valley pretty reliably separates Toronto's working class 'East' (Scarborough) from the affluent centre and relatively more affluent 'West.' Of course there are exceptions on either side.

As an interesting contrast, Australian cities tend to reverse this. The 'Wests' are the working class areas usually. Different hemisphere I guess ;)

American cities tend to divide affluent 'north' and poor (largely Black) 'south.'

[MonkeyRonin]

I've always found it interesting how the original east/west split in London, England is so oft-reflected in Canadian cities. And in Toronto's case, how demographically similar the 'East' and 'West' parts of each city tend to be. Especially the East's. And to the original post above, I think the Don Valley pretty reliably separates Toronto's working class 'East' (Scarborough) from the affluent centre and relatively more affluent 'West.' Of course there are exceptions on either side.


That's not really the case in Toronto. The inner city east of the Don is wealthier than the core and the inner west end. Scarborough is indeed pretty working class - much more so than its western antipode of Etobicoke - but then on the other hand, eastern North York is wealthier than its western half, and East York is wealthier than York:

https://i.imgur.com/sVGRclr.png


Nor has it been the case historically. The favoured quarter has always (or, at least since the late 1800s) skewed north along the central Yonge corridor:

https://i.imgur.com/I495HWP.jpg

[MonkeyRonin]

Traditional rowhomes are essentially non-existent anywhere in BC which is a shame as they wouldn't have been as easy to tear down like all the SFHs have been.


They're certainly not common, but they do exist! Eg:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xcm957SowwWWv6NN6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/X21B7GrKBCtey1VQ7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RgPzqWJnUYa4kXGy8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Vy9ixupETUJXZrqF9

Also somewhat more common here are the "long" rowhouses (not sure if they have a proper name), that extend down the depth of a lot:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1dBmPDz3xWBGXsVF6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Y88WsEAGdiE8YFAR8

In any case, it's kind of a moot point as the neighbourhoods were these do exist (like Strathcona & Grandview-Woodland) tend not to have too many teardowns anyway.

[ScreamingViking]

As an interesting contrast, Australian cities tend to reverse this. The 'Wests' are the working class areas usually. Different hemisphere I guess ;)

Prevailing winds being opposite in the southern hemisphere, I'd guess. I don't know anything about industrial development in Australia, but in some Canadian cities there were factories right near the centre of town! In Hamilton for sure, so the neighbourhoods to the "east" were subject to poor air quality and air pollution. And this continued when the gigantic steel-based industrial complex grew along the city's eastern bayfront shoreline, though as urban development spread it became less of a pollution source for the communities that went up in the far "east" (really southeast and ESE, given the geography).

Hamilton has some "affluent" historical housing that's not far eastward of the downtown, but it's closer to the Niagara Escarpment and may have avoided the fallout from industries in the core when they existed.

[Acajack]

French Canadians where they lived in metro areas with large numbers of anglophones (who generally dominated the economy and society) were almost always concentrated in the east end of cities. All of the classic historic francophone neighbourhoods in Canada (and even in New England, really) are on the eastern sides. It was said by some that this was to be closer to France or Rome, but it's really because it was the less desirable part of town, working class and more exposed to air pollution and closer to industries.

[Docere]

That's not really the case in Toronto. The inner city east of the Don is wealthier than the core and the inner west end. Scarborough is indeed pretty working class - much more so than its western antipode of Etobicoke - but then on the other hand, eastern North York is wealthier than its western half, and East York is wealthier than York

Using the Hulchanski et al classifications of low (less than 80% of CMA average, middle (80-120%) and high income census tracts (120%+). I excluded CTs with populations of less than 1,000..

West End (64 CTs)

High income 22
Middle income 35
Low income 7

East End (32 CTs)

High income 18
Middle income 13
Low income 1

East end is higher income than the west end. The west end has more renters and a a younger population. East end also has a smaller population and affluent enclaves like the Beaches and North Riverdale-Playter Estates make up a good share of the population.

[Docere]

York

High income 5
Middle income 9
Low income 19

East York

High income 7
Middle income 12
Low income 7

Won't bother tallying Scarborough and Etobicoke but Etobicoke is obviously more affluent (Etobicoke - with a little more than half of Scarborough's population - has around 15 high income tracts while Scarborough has 2. And Scarborough is dominated by lower income tracts while the southern 2/3 of Etobicoke is middle and higher income).

[hipster duck]

Nor has it been the case historically. The favoured quarter has always (or, at least since the late 1800s) skewed north along the central Yonge corridor:

https://i.imgur.com/I495HWP.jpg

1970 is almost ancient history in Toronto. The geography of wealth in the city - at a time when legions of men still rode streetcars to their factory jobs in places like Liberty Village - almost has more in common with 1890 than it does with 2024.

It's hard to imagine streets like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6432477,-79.411109,3a,75y,173.36h,95.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sV_V8-ru4yokVsugNYeqDvQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DV_V8-ru4yokVsugNYeqDvQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D183.69376%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) being in one of the poorest parts of the city.

[Docere]

For comparison, Vancouver in 1970:

http://neighbourhoodchange.ca/documents/2012/08/figure-6-map-average-individual-income-1970-vancouver-cma.pdf

[Docere]

1970 is almost ancient history in Toronto. The geography of wealth in the city - at a time when legions of men still rode streetcars to their factory jobs in places like Liberty Village - almost has more in common with 1890 than it does with 2024.

It's hard to imagine streets like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6432477,-79.411109,3a,75y,173.36h,95.4t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sV_V8-ru4yokVsugNYeqDvQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DV_V8-ru4yokVsugNYeqDvQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D183.69376%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) being in one of the poorest parts of the city.

In 1970, the low income workers were still mostly living in the inner city. The middle income workers were living in places like Downsview, while the middle and professional classes were living in places like Don Mills and Leaside. Gentrification was just starting in the Annex, Yorkville and Cabbagetown.

And there was a much more equal distribution of income then and hence far more middle income tracts. The shift from unionized manufacturing to the low paid precariat and service economy is evident. Working class areas in Toronto are now red on the map.

[flar]

I've never heard those names before. Growing up in Kitchener, we always referred to it as "buff brick".

That's what I've always heard too

[flar]

Have a look at this thread for some common older housing types in several Ontario cities

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170890

[SignalHillHiker]

One built form that's on its way out here as most of these places are on their last generation: car-free outports. These are mostly located on the south coast between Burgeo and Harbour Breton, both of which are connected to the rest of the province by road.

This one (via FB) is Grey River, population 95.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Qd85dwp/419560978-10161246803011413-3429106189546415310-n.jpg

This one is Francois, population 64.

https://i.postimg.cc/4xkLSLyy/419474358-10161246803156413-3475697169771272912-n.jpg

One of the provincial ferry routes:

https://i.postimg.cc/s1FcbxVq/ferryservices-schedules-photos-burgeo-francois.jpg

[MolsonExport]

https://i.postimg.cc/9Qd85dwp/419560978-10161246803011413-3429106189546415310-n.jpg

fabulous photo

[craner]

^Agreed - that is awesome.
I want to visit there.

[kwoldtimer]

Have a look at this thread for some common older housing types in several Ontario cities

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170890

Here's a good guide (focus is GTA/SWOntario):

https://www.therealtydeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Heritage-Resource-Centre-Achitectural-Styles-Guide.pdf

[Docere]

Have a look at this thread for some common older housing types in several Ontario cities

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170890

Yes, there's definitely a 19th century Ontario typology.

[Docere]

Just looked through occupational data in the 1961 census and in the east and west ends of the city there was really only one non-working class Census Tract: the Glen Manor Drive area of the Beaches.

The map really has flipped over the half-century.

[Drybrain]

One built form that's on its way out here as most of these places are on their last generation: car-free outports. These are mostly located on the south coast between Burgeo and Harbour Breton, both of which are connected to the rest of the province by road.

This one (via FB) is Grey River, population 95.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Qd85dwp/419560978-10161246803011413-3429106189546415310-n.jpg


This is one of the things about NL I find, for lack of a better word, extremely northern. There is something in the built form of its rural areas that seems almost reminiscent of remote Scandinavian communities, especially Norway: the physical orientation to the ocean, the housing constrained by the extremes of the landscape, the fairly dense but single-family built form, the use of colour, the irregular street layouts. There is something in the sub-Arctic world that NL seems to just be edging into being a part of. I remember a few years ago, walking around Reykjavik, and thinking about how strongly it reminded me of being in Nain, an Inuit town that is also the northernmost community in Labrador. Not two places one would think have a lot in common, but there was some kind of kinship in their physicality which I can only image stems from something to do with the exigencies of existence at that latitude, on that kind of landscape.

[Docere]

Newfoundland is Canada's Iceland and Canada's Ireland.

[urbandreamer]

Never heard it call Brampton or Brantford brick. I always just called it "yellow brick", though I also heard "buff brick" used. Since learning (probably on SSP) that it's an Ontario thing, I call it Ontario Yellow Brick.

If I can ever afford to build my own house, that's what it's going to be clad in. All the nice old farmhouses I grew near have it.

Buff brick is different than Ontario white brick. "Brick colour reveals the age of many houses. The earliest buildings used multi-coloured and buff bricks. Rough red arrived as a cheaper alternative until the railroad made transporting large amounts of white brick possible in the 1840s. By the end of the century, taste changed again, reinstating red brick as the colour of choice until the 1950s."
https://lfpress.com/2016/05/26/ranging-from-the-simple-ontario-cottage-to-imposing-gothic-the-homes-on-the-geranium-heritage-house-tour-show-what-life-in-london-was-like-in-the-late-19th-and-early-20th-centuries/wcm/39513460-b54c-cc2a-ca20-c701dabc045e/amp/lfpress.com/2016/05/26/ranging-from-the-simple-ontario-cottage-to-imposing-gothic-the-homes-on-the-geranium-heritage-house-tour-show-what-life-in-london-was-like-in-the-late-19th-and-early-20th-centuries

Buff brick is darker, almost sand colored:
https://www.historicalbricks.com/products/antique-building-materials/antique-brick/antique-buff-handmades/

Historical white brick is lighter in color
https://www.historicalbricks.com/products/antique-building-materials/antique-brick/
To add to the confusion, some historians do refer to it as yellow brick, but from what I've read it was originally called white brick.

The farmhouse I grew up in was mostly white brick with window accents and wall ends in buff brick.

[hipster duck]

One built form that's on its way out here as most of these places are on their last generation: car-free outports. These are mostly located on the south coast between Burgeo and Harbour Breton, both of which are connected to the rest of the province by road.

This one (via FB) is Grey River, population 95.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Qd85dwp/419560978-10161246803011413-3429106189546415310-n.jpg

That is amazing. We are so lucky to have places like these still left within our country.

[savevp]

Newfoundland's villages and outports have a way of pulling at the heartstrings, even if you've never been to one. Somehow still insulated from modernity, I hope places like Grey River can see the kind of tourism-centred revival Fogo Island has enjoyed.

[flar]

There are a few places in Southern Ontario that aren't predominantly brick. One of them is my home area of Wallaceburg/Port Lambton/Sombra. Downtown Wallaceburg is brick, and there are some brick houses, but the vast majority of older homes are made of wood.

Old churches in Sombra (the one on the left was demolished a few years ago)
https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/stclairriver/DSC_0210.jpg

Sombra houses
https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/stclairriver/DSC_0112.jpg
https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/stclairriver/DSC_0115.jpg

Wallaceburg houses, eclectic
https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00015.jpg

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00048.jpg

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00096.jpg

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00133.jpg

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00141.jpg

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00139.jpg

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/wallaceburg2/00112.jpg

[Docere]

There are a few places in Southern Ontario that aren't predominantly brick. One of them is my home area of Wallaceburg/Port Lambton/Sombra. Downtown Wallaceburg is brick, and there are some brick houses, but the vast majority of older homes are made of wood.

The Tri-Counties have a Michigan vibe.

[MonkeyRonin]

One built form that's on its way out here as most of these places are on their last generation: car-free outports. These are mostly located on the south coast between Burgeo and Harbour Breton, both of which are connected to the rest of the province by road.

This one (via FB) is Grey River, population 95.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Qd85dwp/419560978-10161246803011413-3429106189546415310-n.jpg

This one is Francois, population 64.

https://i.postimg.cc/4xkLSLyy/419474358-10161246803156413-3475697169771272912-n.jpg



Places like these are pretty special. I know they don't serve much of a purpose and aren't really viable on their own anymore, but surely they could have futures as summer home colonies, as tourist destinations, or amongst those looking for tight-knit, off-the-grid communities. Niche, but not non-existent (and growing) markets - and it wouldn't take much to make it happen.

Or, if nothing else, maybe our housing crisis can make these places desirable again. If you've been priced out of Toronto, Vancouver, and St. John's, you could always try Francois. :P

[SignalHillHiker]

Some tend to linger to varying degrees, yes. Grand Bruit, on the same stretch of coast, was resettled. Most of the diehards only moved as far as Burgeo and maintain their former homes in the summer. Little Bay Islands was resettled but two people stayed behind with no ferry or electricity. Merasheen has almost completely disappeared but the descendants of its former residents still have reunions there. And others have vanished, but remain known, like Pushthrough and La Manche. And some are gone and forgotten. You can see some foundation lines on maps but no one today, outside of academia, knows what was there.

*****

Drybrain, I went down a rabbit hole of Geoguessr YouTubers ages ago and a few of them got street scenes from Newfoundland. If they were doing no pan, no move, they guessed Scandinavia. And if they were allowed to move they were confused by the North American license plates lol. That Wizard guy, now often when he gets a scene from Scandinavia he hesitates and says something like, "Could be Newfoundland, but it's not...?" :haha:

[Build.It]

I don't know what this is called, but a lot of older buildings in Wellington County (in and around Guelph) use what appears to be escarpment rock for the exterior.

Eden Mills:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tr5rwTthDPsS31Xo8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2o2MFVMpJAetvanY9

Elora:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/V7Dkzf5gcu1EanVq7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Mp4bvQKCW4EgBcQJ7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JiFyb9nK2dH9LyVr5

Puslinch:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuUgS4Qo7ESnYcHw9

[kwoldtimer]

I don't know what this is called, but a lot of older buildings in Wellington County (in and around Guelph) use what appears to be escarpment rock for the exterior.

Eden Mills:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tr5rwTthDPsS31Xo8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2o2MFVMpJAetvanY9

Elora:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/V7Dkzf5gcu1EanVq7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Mp4bvQKCW4EgBcQJ7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JiFyb9nK2dH9LyVr5

Puslinch:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuUgS4Qo7ESnYcHw9

Scottish settlers.

[Build.It]

Scottish settlers.

Very interesting! Found this after reading your post and digging a little deeper.

https://www.guelphhistoricalsociety.ca/archives/historic-guelph/volume-46/quarries-and-quarrymen-the-limestone-industry-in-guelph

[Docere]

That's not really the case in Toronto. The inner city east of the Don is wealthier than the core and the inner west end. Scarborough is indeed pretty working class - much more so than its western antipode of Etobicoke - but then on the other hand, eastern North York is wealthier than its western half, and East York is wealthier than York:

https://i.imgur.com/sVGRclr.png


Nor has it been the case historically. The favoured quarter has always (or, at least since the late 1800s) skewed north along the central Yonge corridor:

https://i.imgur.com/I495HWP.jpg

The 2021 Census data maps for Toronto and GTA are on page 20 of this document:

https://openpolicyontario.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2023/04/SCRO-Covid-census-in-Toronto-v.6-20230213.pdf

[Docere]

There's some similarities between Guelph and Kingston. Both limestone cities. They're the closest Ontario gets to a university town. Both about the same size.

[Hali87]

Not really a difference in typology, but something I was reminded of when I was visiting Calgary last week: in both Calgary and Edmonton (and I’m guessing other prairie cities?) it looks to me as if there is a lot of tear-down and rebuild of inner-city houses when new owners acquire an old property. Whereas in central and eastern Canada, the tendency is more to renovate—in some cases basically down to the studs, but renovate nonetheless. This has lent the inner residential parts of the prairie cities with a constantly evolving look reflective of current design trends more than a past vernacular.

Calgary also did this with an entire neighbourhood (the East Village) - not something you see very often in 21st century Canada, outside of government-owned lands.

Redevelopments aside, I'm surprised by how much overlap there is between Calgary's architectural vernacular and Halifax's. There are the obvious differences - Calgary's tallest buildings are taller, and Halifax's oldest buildings are older - but the materials, dimensions, colour palette, and overall design ethos are quite similar - both in pre-war areas and in 21st century developments.

In terms of urban form though, Halifax fits within the Maritime typology (or really NS + NB typology - Charlottetown is laid out much more like an Ontario city). Strictly gridded downtown and inner city, surrounded by non-gridded suburbs with winding roads which peter out into low density exurbs carved into the forest. The closest matches for Calgary's overall urban form would probably be Kamloops and Kelowna.

An interesting "regional" difference is that cities in Ontario + the West tend to have flat or mostly-flat downtowns, while the cities in Quebec + the Atlantic tend to have steeply sloped downtowns. With few exceptions on either side.

[Hali87]

Yes Edmonton is kind of like an overgrown Winnipeg in the oilpatch.

They are similar in a lot of ways but they also feel like they are products of different eras. As someone else pointed out, Edmonton's street network is extremely "square". Whereas Winnipeg's is much more "New France", with elongated blocks and a series of different grids that meet each other at weird angles.

The arterial streets tend to look quite different as well. Winnipeg's are much more rooted in the streetcar era and tend to look like this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/A1wWivx2vA5vRtVL9), while Edmonton's tend to be more like this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hfPAV53VPQwhmhEM8).

I find that Winnipeg has about as much kinship with Thunder Bay and maybe even Windsor as it does with the other Prairie cities.

[Docere]

I find that Winnipeg has about as much kinship with Thunder Bay and maybe even Windsor as it does with the other Prairie cities.

So maybe Canada does have a "middle" (Manitoba and NW Ontario).

[Kilgore Trout]

This is a good rundown of urban typologies across Quebec:

http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-catalog-of-density-quebeccanada.html?m=1

I think the village typology is quite interesting because you don’t really see it in many other parts of Canada. You tend to have narrow streets on a rough grid lined by cottages and small detached plexes, all of it fairly dense. It’s very intimate, eclectic and haphazard.

Vieux-Boucherville
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3jTw7g7tLyqbSMTe6?g_st=ic

La Prairie
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tZBFsAJKzsYAgKvy6?g_st=ic

St-Casimir
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Yp2FYxN36xwVuSwQ8?g_st=ic

St-Pétronille
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CQduiPgsyzBb2rpY6?g_st=ic

Wendake
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UU5jHke8h9vgToLL8?g_st=ic

Pointe-Claire
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AP3vk5RjNDtcanjKA?g_st=ic

St-Esprit
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fC2qiu6DsnXqQoLDA?g_st=ic

Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qVgxsRFhEzmfyr986?g_st=ic

[Docere]

Pointe Claire is interesting and shows how much of Montreal Island was built up early. It's not exactly a pre-war suburb but it did have a population of 4,500 in 1941, so it's not like it sprung up from basically farmland the way Toronto's post-war suburbs basically did.

[Kilgore Trout]

Pointe-Claire Village is less a prewar suburb than a rural village that predates (sub)urbanization. Same with Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, Saint-Geneviève and Pointe-aux-Trembles. In Laval, you have St-François and Ste-Rose in similar situations. On the South Shore, there's La Prairie and Boucherville, and on the North Shore, St-Eustache and Charlemagne, among others.

Here's one view (https://maps.app.goo.gl/HYdbLywGYNbcBz2U6) and another (https://maps.app.goo.gl/SA2AjREiX6zvSw39A) of Charlemagne – it's a good example of an old "noyau villageois" that hasn't been upgraded or gentrified, unlike St-Eustache, Boucherville, La Prairie, etc.

That said, Pointe-Claire was indeed a small railroad suburb served by the Hudson line that started service in 1887. But the prewar commuter suburb was concentrated around Valois station which is nearly 4km away from Pointe-Claire Village. You can see it on Google Maps here (https://maps.app.goo.gl/zZJq9g51RjZHqRLbA) – the typology is completely different and has more in common with other railroad suburbs from the early 20th century. For instance, Highland Park in LaSalle (https://maps.app.goo.gl/gteqJxbjvGQScY3t6), which is another prewar railroad suburb.

Also worth noting: Vieux-Longueuil, Ste-Thérèse and Terrebonne all have a bit of the village typology going, but they were more than just rural villages, they were towns important in their own right that just happened to be absorbed by Montreal's urban sprawl. Kind of like Brampton vs. Unionville in a GTA context.

[Docere]

So Pointe-Claire is more like Port Credit.

[Docere]

Montreal's pre-war suburbs, 1941 population:

Verdun 67,349
Outremont 30,751
Westmount 26,047
Lachine 20,051
Town of Mount Royal 4,888
Montreal Ouest 3,474
Hampstead 1,974

All had at least 25% of their current or peak population in 1941.

[Kilgore Trout]

Plexes are one of the most fascinating things about Quebec's urban typology. They're very deeply rooted and you can find them all over the place, including in small towns and villages, whatever their ethnic origins. Here's a duplex with an outdoor staircase (https://maps.app.goo.gl/NjBTCvP8ABE19M7AA) in Ste-Marie in the Beauce — as old-stock French-Canadian as you can get — and here's a couple of outdoor-staircase duplexes (https://maps.app.goo.gl/sMjwJAznKCqMyvDq9) in Ormstown, Montérégie, which was settled by Scots and was historically very anglophone.

However most of these are nestled amidst detached cottages and other types of dwellings in a kind of ad hoc and haphazard way.There are very few plex neighbourhoods outside of Montreal. What I mean by that is entire neighbourhoods that consist mainly of plexes, especially attached plexes. Beyond Montreal, here's what exists:

Ste-Cécile, Trois-Rivières
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vZoFXkiLG9zVgCdG7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YW3Hss1DtBXDw66E8

St-Phillippe, Trois-Rivières
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WjTJTR5FVErdFwbY9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/R3Q8r9FvBoWpsnSW6

La Pointe, Shawinigan
https://maps.app.goo.gl/K4E9j67X1dazEmNc7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wLgb83PU3RQMeVjv8

??? Shawinigan (not sure what this neighbourhood is called)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AcM6uLiBzmysvLi88
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3jjfg8AjgXDF8An18

Limoilou, Quebec
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iT1rPJwSQYzUzY6F6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RnkvtryQEs9CFEbB6

Montcalm, Quebec
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VQM6S1rV9ry9r5Do9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ojWUfdtn27PKsDXS9


There are also some marginal examples where it might be a stretch to say it's an entire neighbourhood of plexes, but there are at least several blocks that are (mostly) plexes, albeit detached.

Downtown Drummondville
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4TQStbCV5n8ji2ba6

Downtown Granby
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mT9bEG8b5mLnS8H46

[Kilgore Trout]

Montreal's pre-war suburbs, 1941 population:

Verdun 67,349
Outremont 30,751
Westmount 26,047
Lachine 20,051
Town of Mount Royal 4,888
Montreal Ouest 3,474
Hampstead 1,974

All had at least 25% of their current or peak population in 1941.

Interestingly, Verdun's population is only slightly higher today than in 1941, even though it now includes Nun's Island. And both Westmount and Outremont have fewer residents today. The demographic impact of smaller households no doubt.

[Docere]

There's arguably three typologies of post-war suburban development:

The interwar suburb that was partially developed and continued to fill in after the war (example: TMR and Hampstead in Montreal)

The rural township that basically exploded after the war (North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke are the best examples)

The small village that became a residential suburb (examples: Pointe Claire and Port Credit)

[Kilgore Trout]

The difference between Pointe-Claire and Port Credit is that, whereas there is some continuity between the older lakeshore part of Port Credit and the inland postwar developments, there is very little relationship between postwar Pointe-Claire and the old village.

[MolsonExport]

The difference between Pointe-Claire and Port Credit is that, whereas there is some continuity between the older lakeshore part of Port Credit and the inland postwar developments, there is very little relationship between postwar Pointe-Claire and the old village.

Indeed. The old village did not expand to create the rest of Pointe Claire; rather it was freeway access to Montreal (the 40 and the 20, although the 20 had some lights in Pointe Claire until the late 80s, at Cartier) that created most of Pointe-Claire (and Kirkland, Beaconsfield, Pierrefonds, Dollard-des-Ormeaux), most of which was built out between 1960-1980. The old village was predominately francophone until the 1960s, whereas the rest of Pointe Claire was largely anglophone, up until the mid 90s.

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton's newest neighbourhood, built-form and density in Blatchford (old muni airport).

Slow as it might be, it is starting to look pretty cool.

https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/forum/attachments/1706044198724-png.534785/

https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/forum/attachments/1706044241751-png.534786/
https://blatchfordedmonton.ca/community/mid-summer-update/

[MolsonExport]

Will the airport tower be retained? And if so, as what?

[Nouvellecosse]

It's not bad. Kind of Toronto-ish with the rear laneway garages. Hopefully there's enough quality top-soil to support some decently-sized trees as a neighbourhood will never look inviting or compete to my eye with such sparse landscaping.

[Coldrsx]

Will the airport tower be retained? And if so, as what?

That's the plan. Community amenity, lookout, potential coffee shop.

[Docere]

The transition from rural township to giant suburb in North York was pretty remarkable. North York was incorporated in 1922 with the support of the United Farmers of Ontario. They wanted to separate from York Township which had urbanized (it was Canada's largest interwar suburb even though it never incorporated as a city).

The closest thing to a village or town was Lansing/Willowdale (postal villages) but it never incorporated. And the area is of course now North York's high-rise downtown so it's hard to get any sense of history in spite of Gibson House and the York cemetery.

[Docere]

It's interesting that Toronto's early 20th century annexations more closely tailed development than Montreal's did - i.e. most post-1920 development took place outside city limits in Toronto (which stopped annexing in 1912). Toronto actually had a larger population outside of city limits in 1941 (242,000) than Montreal (214,000).

If one looked only at city proper populations, you wouldn't see that Toronto's gaining on Montreal was evident - Toronto proper was 78% the size of Montreal in 1901 and 74% the size of Montreal in 1941. But if you looked at Montreal Island and what would become Metro Toronto, the gain was evident: 66% in 1901, 81% in 1941.