Condo Living-The Worst Kind of Canadian Living?

[whatnext]

So, this was inspired by a thread in the Vancouve (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256393)r forum. My basic question: is living in a condo the worst kind of living in Canada (bar a tent or cardboard box)? You're at the mercy of the quirks and behaviours of scores of other owners/renters but unlike a someone renting a flat you can't just give notice and leave. Plus these buildings are beginning to rack up some significant expenses as they age.

Then there's been the issue of skyrocketing insurance premiums (https://calgaryherald.com/life/homes/new-homes/condo-insurance-premiums-on-the-rise)for some of these buildings. Often the result of water damage claims from pipe failures etc.

Often the naysayers claim that operating a house is more expensive but based on what I see being charged monthly maintenance fees I'd argue that's not the case. I can mow my own lawn and rake my own leaves. It's unlikely I'll have to replace the roof more than once.

[SignalHillHiker]

The condo market here is a bit primitive compared to Canada's largest cities, but the cost doesn't really reflect that. Most of them are just apartment buildings whose owners turned them into condos. There are generally no amenities on site - no gym, no pool, no superette, nothing. It's just an apartment building with a different ownership structure. Yet the condo fees are typically $500/month or more.

I purposely did not consider a condo while I was looking, even though a couple of cute ones went on the market during that time. It just wasn't worth the monthly fees when you can (and did) get a rowhouse with no condo fees for less.

[Nouvellecosse]

When it comes to real estate I think the old adage still applies: "location, location, location." Condos may not be great in terms of their physical form and their isolation from the street in the case of high-rises, but their location is often excellent. I would personally consider the worst kind of Canadian living to be anything that requires a long commute, particularly in a city with bad traffic and limited public transit options. Typically that means a detached house somewhere out near the periphery surrounded by unnecessary land to maintain. It's not really the city and not really the countryside. It's neither convenient nor charismatic. In fact those areas are often downright hideous with all the big box stores, strip malls and drive-thrus. It's cheaper per square foot but still not cheap - especially when considering transportation and maintenance costs. Condos may have their downsides but one can certainly do worse.

[ScreamingViking]

I might consider a condo, when I can afford to buy something again. But it would be temporary: a few years at most.

What I'd really love to do is get an older home in a nice but established area of town. Replace the small front lawn with plant gardens, do the same in back but with a seating area, depending on the space. Maybe a few renos over time, unless the place had been updated. Not to flip, but to live in.

Thing is, older homes carry cost risks too. The one I part-owned had a basement flood when a root from a beautiful and huge old maple tree in front of the neighbouring house collapsed the main drain. Had to re-renovate the basement (which was set up to be a separate unit). $$$$$ even with insurance covering part of it.

[WhipperSnapper]

Let's rephrased this as high rise apartment living as a condo could be a subdivided Rosedale (Toronto) mansion or common elements like landscaping.

There's a very large range in high rise apartment living. I could easily live in a one unit per floor building with 10 to 15 floors. There would need to be two elevators. I see an article every week or two about a modern era Vancouver losing its elevator for weeks. This investor driven direction in Toronto and expanding across Canada for larger and larger buildings (typically taller) with smaller and smaller units is hardly ideal in my books and will persist long after the housing crisis has been forgotten. A 70 storey high rise with 1300 walk in closets is hardly something to showcase like a 260 metre office tower.

The rental boom is being built at incredibly inflated value. I don't see much wiggle room in rental prices to come down. Perhaps a bailout will even be necessary if values plummet too much. People's pensions are on the line.

[casper]

I live in a condo, concrete 9 story building built in the 1970s. Un-obstructed water view. Being an older builder it was around half the cost of the a spanking new buildings in Victoria. The building had the exterior resealed, new decking, new windows and new glass railing just over 10 years ago. This year it is new elevators going in.

Solid reserve fund. In BC rules requiring an engineering study and a proper reserve fund are fairly new have only been around a few year. Some older builders had differed work, this one was not bad.

Some of the amenities that were not being used were abandoned to save money. The pool and sauna just did not see much use. Some of the low cost amenities like the billiard room and word working shop continue on with limited use. With an older building your forced to consider the value of some of these amenities especially if they cost money to keep them going.

Love it, in the morning I sit on the deck with a coffee looking out over the water. Minimal noise. The unit is much larger than what a new building would be.

I have had a SFH in Vancouver and a townhouse in Saskatoon. Much prefer this.

[Kilgore Trout]

Condominiums are just a form of ownership. My parents live in a condo but it's a semi-detached duplex in a large complex with several hundred units ranging from SFH to apartments. The advantage for them is they don't need to worry about maintenance: it's all included in the condo fee. My dad is an avid gardener but he gets to focus on the fun stuff (growing plants) without having to worry about the boring stuff (mowing the lawn).

Many plex in Montreal were converted into condos over the years and that seems to me like an ideal situation: you get an apartment in a dense urban setting, but you have the security of ownership and the freedom to customize your home however you like, within the legal limits of course. Usually these plex condos have minimal fees, just enough to keep the roof and structure in good order, so you don't need to deal with the kind of condo board drama you get with much larger buildings. My sister-in-law owns a ground floor condo in a 1920s-era five-plex. She gets 1,700 square feet of space, a large private backyard, all the convenience of urban living, but she doesn't have to take care of the whole building because all important costs like redoing the brickwork or fixing the roof are shared between all owners. Condo board meetings are pretty informal because there's only five units. It's a great situation.

If you're talking about high-rise condos specifically, well, there's a huge amount of variation. Some buildings are crap, others are great. I lived in what by Canadian standards would be called a condo tower in Hong Kong and honestly it was pretty great. I got my little box in the sky, with a great view and a balcony where I could grow plants and grill things, and I had access to a gym that was just an elevator ride away. It was a small building by HK standards but some of the bigger housing estates have an insane amount of amenities, from bowling alleys to huge outdoor BBQ areas to enormous swimming pools.

[whatnext]

I might consider a condo, when I can afford to buy something again. But it would be temporary: a few years at most.

What I'd really love to do is get an older home in a nice but established area of town. Replace the small front lawn with plant gardens, do the same in back but with a seating area, depending on the space. Maybe a few renos over time, unless the place had been updated. Not to flip, but to live in.

Thing is, older homes carry cost risks too. The one I part-owned had a basement flood when a root from a beautiful and huge old maple tree in front of the neighbouring house collapsed the main drain. Had to re-renovate the basement (which was set up to be a separate unit). $$$$$ even with insurance covering part of it.

Yes I had a similar issue and had to replace the old clay pipes. Cost about $8k which for many Vancouver condos is less than a year’s maintenance fees.

[C3YVR]

Absolutely hilarious! I own both a condo and house, and have so for years, and for me the condo is by far the more stress free and enjoyable. There is good and bad in almost all things, but whatnext almost always looks for the negative and seems to take pleasure in making note of it. We all need to realize we live in a mixed world and different people have different needs and desires.

[Doady]

First world problems.

[lio45]

Condo living is definitely the fifth worst type of Canadian living, after open outdoors living, tent living, shelter living, and vehicle living, in that order.

[Dirt_Devil]

I have 2 kids and a dog and living in a condo would be a nightmare.

[ScreamingViking]

Absolutely hilarious! I own both a condo and house, and have so for years, and for me the condo is by far the more stress free and enjoyable. There is good and bad in almost all things, but whatnext almost always looks for the negative and seems to take pleasure in making note of it. We all need to realize we live in a mixed world and different people have different needs and desires.

To be fair, I'm the one who brought up the house issue.

But I think regardless of the ownership model, everyone pays. It's just that sometimes the expenses are unexpected.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Condo Living - The Only (Somewhat) Affordable Housing Option For Young People in Canada

[theman23]

Condo living is definitely the fifth worst type of Canadian living, after open outdoors living, tent living, shelter living, and vehicle living, in that order.

I remember watching a YouTube video recently where two wide eyed visitors from Australia marvelled about how “laid back” and “chill” Canadians were, citing the number of Canadians who just sleep in their car as an example of this relaxed attitude.

[Coldrsx]

The biggest issue for me is that 'The Act(s)' and industry is more or less broken when it comes to protecting the owner's interest and board's reasonability when it comes to decision making.

We entrust boards with multi-hundred-thousand, if not million dollar corporations to run, administer and be responsible for... which inevitability fail or underperform or are plagued with indecision.

Deferred maintenance at all costs to 'preserve the reserve' or retain desirability from a seller/purchaser perspective.

Add in little recourse for middle-sized events that continue to erode finances and it feels icky and is very much problematic.

[Wigs]

Edmonton and Winnipeg seem to be the only major cities where condos are still really affordable and with decent unit sizes.

I know Montréal used to be affordable, but it seems prices there have taken off in the past 5 or so years.

In Niagara they basically start at $350k for something tiny in usually not the best area. You can find the odd unit for cheaper but usually even smaller and less desirable location.
Typically, a decent one costs $400k-500k for a 2 bed, 1 bath unit.

[whatnext]

Absolutely hilarious! I own both a condo and house, and have so for years, and for me the condo is by far the more stress free and enjoyable. There is good and bad in almost all things, but whatnext almost always looks for the negative and seems to take pleasure in making note of it. We all need to realize we live in a mixed world and different people have different needs and desires.

Is the condo an “investment” or do you actually live in it?

[MonkeyRonin]

Urban SFH > urban condo > rural SFH > suburban SFH > suburban condo.

IMO of course (if we're strictly talking about ownership of a property). But point being, there's a little more nuance than just "condo bad/condo good". Even just amongst condos within a given area there can be a huge variation based on building type and other conditions (eg. heritage loft condo vs. investor-focused high rise. Well-run small building vs. ghost hotel, etc).

[Nouvellecosse]

Urban SFH > urban condo > rural SFH > suburban SFH > suburban condo.


Yeah pretty much except the last two... really depends. If it's a suburban SFH on or near a reasonably frequent transit route, within walking distance to some basic amenities, and not on a wastefully lot then yeah. But a lot of suburban SFHs don't meet any of those conditions let alone all of them. And I'd place ones that don't below suburban condos that do.

[Architype]

So, this was inspired by a thread in the Vancouve (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256393)r forum. My basic question: is living in a condo the worst kind of living in Canada (bar a tent or cardboard box)? You're at the mercy of the quirks and behaviours of scores of other owners/renters but unlike a someone renting a flat you can't just give notice and leave. Plus these buildings are beginning to rack up some significant expenses as they age.

Then there's been the issue of skyrocketing insurance premiums (https://calgaryherald.com/life/homes/new-homes/condo-insurance-premiums-on-the-rise)for some of these buildings. Often the result of water damage claims from pipe failures etc.

Often the naysayers claim that operating a house is more expensive but based on what I see being charged monthly maintenance fees I'd argue that's not the case. I can mow my own lawn and rake my own leaves. It's unlikely I'll have to replace the roof more than once.

There are all kinds of issues, but they are not restricted to condos. Don't forget it's about density, affordability, carbon footprint, etc., and don't forget that almost 30% of Canadian households consist of single people. To live in a house by yourself doesn't seem like much of a solution to any of our current issues. If it's about type of ownership as opposed to type of building form, that's another discussion; there are pros and cons to both, but ownership is investment while renting is a slow bleed contribution to the wealth of the 1%.

[SignalHillHiker]

Urban SFH > urban condo > rural SFH > suburban SFH > suburban condo.

This feels correct to me as well.

I'm not sure I could live in St. John's if I had to live outside downtown, but I would definitely choose Petty Harbour over Paradise.

The last two I might be open to switching around, if I had to live in the suburbs. Something that feels more transient and temporary like a condo, presumably near a bus stop with a straighter rip downtown, might protect my mental health a little more than a detached home in a single-use subdivision on street without sidewalks.

[MolsonExport]

There are all kinds of issues, but they are not restricted to condos. Don't forget it's about density, affordability, carbon footprint, etc., and don't forget that almost 30% of Canadian households consist of single people. To live in a house by yourself doesn't seem like much of a solution to any of our current issues. If it's about type of ownership as opposed to type of building form, that's another discussion; there are pros and cons to both, but ownership is investment while renting is a slow bleed contribution to the wealth of the 1%.

This. It is silly to make a sweeping conclusion that condos represent the "worst kind of Canadian living". Just like any other form of housing, condos range from being the absolute best form of living for many people having a wide range of circumstances and living large urban areas, to being overpriced and/or deteriorating assets offering sub-optimal living quarters.

[niwell]

As others have mentioned condo really just refers to ownership type. It's absolutely true that many of the new highrises with shoebox units aren't particularly livable. But on the flipside an ex of mine and I lived in a 1970s condo in Ottawa owned by her parents (they lived elsewhere) and it was totally fine - interior was a bit dated but we had 3 bedrooms and around 1,200 sq ft of space. Maintenance fees were fairly reasonable and while the building didn't have the best amenities there was a gym and outdoor pool. You could easily raise a family in there.

I have no interest in highrise living at this point primarily due to owning 2 bigger dogs and the logistics surrounding that. However the type of arrangement Kilgore Trout was talking about in Montreal plexes is very appealing to me. I know it's also pretty common to be able to purchase a floor of a 3 flat in Chicago or triple decker in Boston. If you could easily purchase a floor in an old subdivided Toronto house or new plex development that would be great - I know there are some examples but it's pretty rare. I'm sure both the traditional housing typology and the way the Condo Act is structured make it difficult.

We'd be fine in anything ground oriented enough though - I want the option to easily walk up and down. But anything with the size we'd like isn't at a price point I'd find it easy to justify. Too used to living in a 1,000 sq ft 1 bedroom with 2 separate offices.

[bridgeoftea]

Someone already made the point "location, location, location".

Living in Saint John, NB, I've had 3 types of homes. Top floor apartment. Townhouse with neighbours on both sides. Single family home.

I only ever wanted a condo/townhouse style home, until we had the worst neighbour in the world and ended up leaving the townhouse after 8 months.

However, I'd rather be living Uptown Saint John but it comes with the neighbour risk, lack of stable parking. When you're living in a city where a car is almost mandatory, it's not worth the struggle.

If I was living in Europe or a dense walkable city like New York, I'd happily take the benefits of a good location, walking distance to grocery stores/amenity/reliable, fast transit. While taking a chance on a crazy neighbour.

For me it would be:
Best Location > Urban SFH > Apartment > Townhouse > Condo > Rural SFH

[Acajack]

One Canadian advantage of living in a condo is the ability to isolate yourself quite a bit from the elements - especially during the winter.

You can minimise your exposure more than an SFH, townhouse or small apartment resident with an underground parking garage, direct indoor access to transit in some cities, so no snow clearing to do or brushing the snow off the car.

Bonus points if your workplace and other amenities are directly connected to your condo building via transit (or at least close enough), or if your workplace and other places you frequent have indoor heated parking.

[Echoes]

When I started looking to purchase my first home, my mind was set on an urban condo (urban in the local context) but eventually realized that a modest SFH in a walkable, close-in neighbourhood was within reach for me in Saskatoon. My walk to work may be a bit longer than I wanted but I have no regrets. My quality of life is great.

It's hard to see the urban condo market here really taking off until the central SFH neighbourhoods become universally out of reach.

[WhipperSnapper]

One Canadian advantage of living in a condo is the ability to isolate yourself quite a bit from the elements - especially during the winter.

You can minimise your exposure more than an SFH, townhouse or small apartment resident with an underground parking garage, direct indoor access to transit in some cities, so no snow clearing to do or brushing the snow off the car.

Bonus points if your workplace and other amenities are directly connected to your condo building via transit (or at least close enough), or if your workplace and other places you frequent have indoor heated parking.

I lived roughly one year in a rental tower that was connected to work via an underground passage that included a full grocery store. The rental tower surprisingly didn't have balconies either. It wasn't healthy. I feel similar for the thousands of office workers in the basements of downtown Toronto office towers that may not see sunlight in the winter months for the entire work week

[Acajack]

I lived roughly one year in a rental tower that was connected to work via an underground passage that included a full grocery store. The rental tower surprisingly didn't have balconies either. It wasn't healthy. I feel similar for the thousands of office workers in the basements of downtown Toronto office towers that may not see sunlight in the winter months for the entire work week

Good points. I should have added the caveat "if one so desires".

[Innsertnamehere]

One Canadian advantage of living in a condo is the ability to isolate yourself quite a bit from the elements - especially during the winter.

You can minimise your exposure more than an SFH, townhouse or small apartment resident with an underground parking garage, direct indoor access to transit in some cities, so no snow clearing to do or brushing the snow off the car.

Bonus points if your workplace and other amenities are directly connected to your condo building via transit (or at least close enough), or if your workplace and other places you frequent have indoor heated parking.

Garages exist you know! Even if most homeowners have them stuffed full of junk..

We have a single car garage, on the small side, and squeeze our Civic in it in the winters to avoid the cold weather. In the summer the Civic goes on the driveway and we use it as a place to stage bikes, yard tools, etc.

It's a similar quality of weather protection that our apartment in Downtown Toronto had, with the added bonus of not having to loop out of 3 levels of parking garage when driving out.

The thing that bothered me the most about high-rise apartment living was the amount of time it took to get out of the building - elevators, parking ramps, etc. Once out we were a quick 3-minute walk to the subway, but I had to take the streetcar to work at the time, which meant lots of standing around outside.. didn't enjoy it at all. Being directly connected to the PATH definitely would have been nice though.

[Acajack]

Garages exist you know! Even if most homeowners have them stuffed full of junk..

We have a single car garage, on the small side, and squeeze our Civic in it in the winters to avoid the cold weather. In the summer the Civic goes on the driveway and we use it as a place to stage bikes, yard tools, etc.
.

Yes I know I have a double garage attached to my house. Though mine is not heated, but even if it was you still need to clear the snow from the driveway, the sidewalk, your front steps and any other walkways. These are things that a condo dweller doesn't need to do in the winter. (Not saying I hate doing all that, only that condo dwellers often mention this as an advantage.)

[Innsertnamehere]

yea - true. We don't get a ton of snow here though so it's not a huge deal. I think I've averaged shoveling 4-5 times a year in the 3 years since we moved here. Its rare to have more than a week or so go by here without some above-freezing weather, so unless it's a large dumping of snow you can usually just leave it and it melts in a few days.

Definitely a different story somewhere like Quebec or Alberta though.

My garage isn't heated either per se, but I find it's usually substantially warmer than outside from heat loss from the house and just temperature moderation in general being enclosed. Makes a huge difference over parking your car outside.

[Acajack]

yea - true. We don't get a ton of snow here though so it's not a huge deal. I think I've averaged shoveling 4-5 times a year in the 3 years since we moved here. Its rare to have more than a week or so go by here without some above-freezing weather, so unless it's a large dumping of snow you can usually just leave it and it melts in a few days.

Definitely a different story somewhere like Quebec or Alberta though.

My garage isn't heated either per se, but I find it's usually substantially warmer than outside from heat loss from the house and just temperature moderation in general being enclosed. Makes a huge difference over parking your car outside.

Yeah, even mine stays just above freezing on many winter days. It's got common walls with the main house on 2 sides plus rooms above it.

[Berklon]

One Canadian advantage of living in a condo is the ability to isolate yourself quite a bit from the elements - especially during the winter.

You can minimise your exposure more than an SFH, townhouse or small apartment resident with an underground parking garage, direct indoor access to transit in some cities, so no snow clearing to do or brushing the snow off the car.

Bonus points if your workplace and other amenities are directly connected to your condo building via transit (or at least close enough), or if your workplace and other places you frequent have indoor heated parking.

Minimizing exposure from the elements can also apply to heating and air conditioning and their costs. A unit in a condo/apartment building (as long as it isn't really old) can save you big bucks on heating/AC. Even a 1,500 sq. ft unit is very quick to heat up/cool down and because you normally have only 1 cold wall (even if it spans 3 rooms) the temperatures stay in a comfortable spot for MUCH longer. My mother lives in a similar condo unit and her utility bills are so much smaller than those from a house.

[theman23]

Minimizing exposure from the elements can also apply to heating and air conditioning and their costs. A unit in a condo/apartment building (as long as it isn't really old) can save you big bucks on heating/AC. Even a 1,500 sq. ft unit is very quick to heat up/cool down and because you normally have only 1 cold wall (even if it spans 3 rooms) the temperatures stay in a comfortable spot for MUCH longer. My mother lives in a similar condo unit and her utility bills are so much smaller than those from a house.

You still pay for that heating of the common areas through your condo fees. The fees in most of central Canada for condos are kind of crazy compared to what we pay in BC.

[1overcosc]

Ontario's legal model for condos creates a huge amount of bureaucratic overhead in terms of needing a corporation with a board and a manager and engineering studies and so on, which drives up condo fees. It also makes it practically impossible to have a condo property with fewer than a dozen or so units, which prevents the scenario of triplexes where everyone owns their unit.

[Berklon]

You still pay for that heating of the common areas through your condo fees. The fees in most of central Canada for condos are kind of crazy compared to what we pay in BC.

Right, but condo fees are a given - and isn't just for heating common areas, it's for all the other amenities as well.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ontario's legal model for condos creates a huge amount of bureaucratic overhead in terms of needing a corporation with a board and a manager and engineering studies and so on, which drives up condo fees. It also makes it practically impossible to have a condo property with fewer than a dozen or so units, which prevents the scenario of triplexes where everyone owns their unit.

which honestly is a massive problem with the modern idea of missing middle housing. It almost has to be rental housing in Ontario, not ownership - which is a shame.

[WhipperSnapper]

Isn't that a product of all the mismanaged condo properties from the 1970s? Special assessments are killers for homeowner and property values alike.

There's quite a few Toronto residential condominiums with 5 or less units in the list I have. Property and construction costs are far too high to expect new triplexes to resolving the missing middle. The unit price will be nearly as much as the original single family home.

[whatnext]

Urban SFH > urban condo > rural SFH > suburban SFH > suburban condo.

IMO of course (if we're strictly talking about ownership of a property). But point being, there's a little more nuance than just "condo bad/condo good". Even just amongst condos within a given area there can be a huge variation based on building type and other conditions (eg. heritage loft condo vs. investor-focused high rise. Well-run small building vs. ghost hotel, etc).

Out of all of those I'd label the urban FH the best. On small lots so you know your neighbours yet you're in control of your home and yard. I'd be willing to be that all the homes in this picture have at least a basement suite (or are divided up into suites). As such, they provide truly affordable housing options that market newbuilds can never match.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53332713823_33bd621108_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pfQ6JF)houses (https://flic.kr/p/2pfQ6JF) by bcborn (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56453875@N08/), on Flickr

my photo

[samne]

My first home that I bought was a condo townhouse. Was great, some exterior building elements along with common areas nicely maintained. Not really any facilities to maintain so fees were pretty low(under $300/mo.)

I was on the condo board, which was an experience dealing with the property managers and owners trying to scam extra repairs and renovations. Can see how this can get abused.

[casper]

Isn't that a product of all the mismanaged condo properties from the 1970s? Special assessments are killers for homeowner and property values alike.

There's quite a few Toronto residential condominiums with 5 or less units in the list I have. Property and construction costs are far too high to expect new triplexes to resolving the missing middle. The unit price will be nearly as much as the original single family home.

I use to own a strata (townhouse) in Saskatoon about 15 years ago. Purchased when under construction and was the second owner to move in. So ended up on the board.

At the time Saskatchewan required every strata to engage an engineering firm to do a study that defined the maintenance plan with an estimate of what would be required in the reserve fund. I don't remember the interval but the study would need to be periodically updated. During the first few years most repairs were warranty items with the builder. We did have to make significant increases to the strata fees to build up a reserve fund.

My impression was the study was conservative. For example a 25 year roof was expected to replaced every 25 years. In practice it may not last to long beyond that but you may get a few extra years.

I was surprised when moving back to BC. Looking at some of the strata units in Victoria. The requirement for the engineering study was a new thing being phased into BC. Some of the units I looked at had a lot of maintenance issues and a fairly small reserve fund.

I went for a 70s building but stayed away from anything that did not have a good reserve fund and lacked a track record or keeping things in good repair.

BC had the entire leaky Condo phase where the remediation to remove mold and redo the building envelope caused a lot of special assessments. There are a few building like that around that are disasters.

[hipster duck]

My first home that I bought was a condo townhouse. Was great, some exterior building elements along with common areas nicely maintained. Not really any facilities to maintain so fees were pretty low(under $300/mo.)

I was on the condo board, which was an experience dealing with the property managers and owners trying to scam extra repairs and renovations. Can see how this can get abused.

When I lived in a condo, I wasn't part of the board but I saw some things in the minutes that raised my eyebrows a bit.

We lived in relatively small (<100 unit) reinforced concrete building in Vancouver. One of the owners was a contractor, and he volunteered to do repairs to common areas and fix minor issues. I don't know what kind of deal he got but, after he left, the board had to raise our strata fee to cover a paid replacement, and they admitted that they had never budgeted for this possibility before. Or, at least that's the reason they told us for raising the fees.

Condo boards are a lesson that small democracies are often a bad way of running things.

[whatnext]

When I lived in a condo, I wasn't part of the board but I saw some things in the minutes that raised my eyebrows a bit.

We lived in relatively small (<100 unit) reinforced concrete building in Vancouver. One of the owners was a contractor, and he volunteered to do repairs to common areas and fix minor issues. I don't know what kind of deal he got but, after he left, the board had to raise our strata fee to cover a paid replacement, and they admitted that they had never budgeted for this possibility before. Or, at least that's the reason they told us for raising the fees.

Condo boards are a lesson that small democracies are often a bad way of running things.

The flip side of that is who would want to get stuck running a large strata when you get paid nothing and it is a thankless job?

And turning that task completely over to "professionals" would send strata fees through the roof.

[whatnext]

Case (literally) in point:

B.C. strata ordered to conduct secret probe to catch renegade smoker
Two complainants of second-hand smoke seeping into their unit had claim largely dismissed. However, their strata council has to do more to catch whoever is smoking, causing nuisance, said CRT adjudicator
Graeme Wood
about an hour ago

The strata of a large corporation has been ordered to conduct a secret investigation and testing of second-hand smoke that resulted in a small claim at the Civil Resolution Tribunal.

Tribunal adjudicator Garth Cambrey told the unnamed strata council to attend the eighth-floor unit of complainants Daryl Foster and Tanya Foster to conduct testing for a two-week period.

Cambrey further ordered the testing to be done without informing any other residents, in order to potentially catch the source of smoke.

The order stems from a complaint lodged by the Fosters against neighbour Kristine Clark, who lives on the third floor of the condominium tower. But Cambrey found the Fosters did not prove Clark was the source of smoke, from her balcony.

Clark denied violating the strata’s nuisance bylaw and told the tribunal the Fosters refused to deal with her directly, according to Cambrey’s Dec.11 ruling. Cambrey called the Fosters’ claim “circumstantial and speculative at best.”....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bc-strata-ordered-to-conduct-secret-probe-to-catch-renegade-smoker-7956511

[kwoldtimer]

Case (literally) in point:

B.C. strata ordered to conduct secret probe to catch renegade smoker
Two complainants of second-hand smoke seeping into their unit had claim largely dismissed. However, their strata council has to do more to catch whoever is smoking, causing nuisance, said CRT adjudicator
Graeme Wood
about an hour ago

The strata of a large corporation has been ordered to conduct a secret investigation and testing of second-hand smoke that resulted in a small claim at the Civil Resolution Tribunal.

Tribunal adjudicator Garth Cambrey told the unnamed strata council to attend the eighth-floor unit of complainants Daryl Foster and Tanya Foster to conduct testing for a two-week period.

Cambrey further ordered the testing to be done without informing any other residents, in order to potentially catch the source of smoke.

The order stems from a complaint lodged by the Fosters against neighbour Kristine Clark, who lives on the third floor of the condominium tower. But Cambrey found the Fosters did not prove Clark was the source of smoke, from her balcony.

Clark denied violating the strata’s nuisance bylaw and told the tribunal the Fosters refused to deal with her directly, according to Cambrey’s Dec.11 ruling. Cambrey called the Fosters’ claim “circumstantial and speculative at best.”....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bc-strata-ordered-to-conduct-secret-probe-to-catch-renegade-smoker-7956511

Cigarette smoke from five storeys down?

Living in a condo can mean neighbours who break rules or are simply nuts.

[MonkeyRonin]

Living in a condo can mean neighbours who break rules or are simply nuts.


You don't say... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-lawyer-pseudolegal-lawsuit-1.7025394

:runaway:

[whatnext]

You don't say... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-lawyer-pseudolegal-lawsuit-1.7025394

:runaway:

That female lawyer (Arbabi) sounds like a real piece of work.

....An affidavit of service filed by McLelland says when a process server knocked on Arbabi's door to serve her with McLelland's response to the claim, the woman who answered said she was not Naomi Arbabi.

The process server writes in the affidavit that she found Arbabi's photo online, and confirmed it was the person she'd just met, so she emailed Arbabi to ask for an explanation.

Arbabi responded: "When you ask i if i am Naomi Arbabi the answer is always no as Naomi Arbabi is an incorporated name and does not refer to a living breathing woman."

According to the affidavit, Arbabi expanded on her theory in another email later the same day, explaining that Naomi Arbabi was a "dead entity corporation" created by her birth certificate.

"I, a woman, am not Naomi Arbabi, but Naomi Arbabi is the name i am called. There is a subtle but crucial difference between the two. Unfortunately, this is not common knowledge yet," she wrote...

[someone123]

My neighbours from hell upped their game and seem to have added a second barkier dog now (they also scream at each other sometimes and slam things at all hours). When I made a noise complaint the lady said she was the true victim as I was causing her stress by complaining. :D

Almost everybody is reasonable and most neighbours cause 0 issues but depending on the setup you can have a lot of adjacent units and it only takes one to cause headaches. Townhouses are a lot better for this. We had another flophouse from hell a few years ago with too many tenants who were smoking pot and playing music for about 18 hours a day while their apartment became overrun with mice. I am surprised we haven't seen more of that.

[casper]

"I, a woman, am not Naomi Arbabi, but Naomi Arbabi is the name i am called. There is a subtle but crucial difference between the two. Unfortunately, this is not common knowledge yet," she wrote...[/I]

You are brining back memory of Philosophy of Language class many years ago in university.

I still remember the class well. There were perhaps 15 of us in the class. There was a priest. There was a fellow that went on to be a call-in radio show host. Several who were destined to go on to law school. A few of us from a computer science background that had an interest in natural language processing. I for one was happy to never study that subject again.

[whatnext]

So many condo-living friends have water leak horror stories. Here's a very Vancouver one:

B.C. strata owner to pay for leaky wine cooler water damage
Owner agreed leak came from cooler but objected to strata going ahead with work to fix issue.
Jeremy Hainsworth

A Vancouver homeowner whose unit had a leak in a wine cooler won’t be getting any cash back from her strata, B.C.’s Civil Resolution Tribunal has ruled.

Fei Ying Zhang took her strata to the tribunal after it charged her $2,575 for an invoice from a contractor hired to look into the leak.

Recommended reads for you:
B.C. mom collecting $17K in benefits seeks support from 'ultra-high net worth' ex-husband
Drought conditions force BC Hydro to rely on power purchases
In June 2022, water leaked in Zhang’s strata lot, tribunal member Micah Carmody said in a Dec. 18 decision.

Carmody said the contractors determined the leak came from a wine cooler.

Zhang said she should not have to pay the chargeback for various reasons; primarily, she said, because the contractors did unnecessary work because they failed to realize the leak came from the cooler....

....Zhang was not living in the unit June 4, 2022, when her property manager, Coloumb Wang, discovered water pooling on the living room floor.

Wang mopped the water up, but a small amount of water continued to seep out from the kitchen island toward the living room.

Wang informed Zhang about the leak and called the strata emergency line. The strata manager called a contractor which sent a plumber the same day....

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bc-strata-owner-to-pay-for-leaky-wine-cooler-water-damage-8005742

[lio45]

That’s one of the downsides of condos: you’re not alone in charge. The argument that the board can and should step in and fix YOUR leak ASAP and send you the bill, is a valid one. Conversely, in a privately owned building, you can actually decide to control the leak or even endure some water damage, until it can be fixed for free, rather than immediately summoning an expensive plumbing company.

[yaletown_fella]

The condo fees for units in Village by the Grange , which was topped out in 1978 seem quite reasonable compared to most buildings in Toronto. They also include everything except for hydro & internet (I can't recall if some kind of a cable package is still included)

I'm considering purchasing a unit in this building as a hedge against potential rising rents in Toronto proper.

What are peoples experiences with Del properties management ?

My main concern is the possibility of special assessments and roaches. (I checked under the sink of the unit, and in the hinges of cabinets during the open house and couldnt see any signs of bug activity)

[whatnext]

The condo fees for units in Village by the Grange , which was topped out in 1978 seem quite reasonable compared to most buildings in Toronto. They also include everything except for hydro & internet (I can't recall if some kind of a cable package is still included)

I'm considering purchasing a unit in this building as a hedge against potential rising rents in Toronto proper.

What are peoples experiences with Del properties management ?

My main concern is the possibility of special assessments and roaches. (I checked under the sink of the unit, and in the hinges of cabinets during the open house and couldnt see any signs of bug activity)

Interesting, roaches are a big concern in Toronto? I hadn’t heard of that in Vancouver, silverfish maybe.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Yeah, roaches and bed bugs are big concerns for apartment or condo living in Toronto.

Even mice to a lesser degree.

[whatnext]

You are brining back memory of Philosophy of Language class many years ago in university.

I still remember the class well. There were perhaps 15 of us in the class. There was a priest. There was a fellow that went on to be a call-in radio show host. Several who were destined to go on to law school. A few of us from a computer science background that had an interest in natural language processing. I for one was happy to never study that subject again.

Looks like the lawyer Arbabi was even too much for lawyers to tolerate:

Vancouver lawyer suspended after accusations of pseudolegal 'paper terrorism' over neighbour's deck
Naomi Arbabi's suspension 'necessary to protect the public,' Law Society of B.C. says
Rhianna Schmunk · CBC News · Posted: Jan 02, 2024

A Vancouver lawyer accused of filing a groundless pseudolegal lawsuit against her neighbour over a glass deck divider has been banned from practising law in British Columbia while the province's law society investigates a complaint.

Naomi Arbabi was temporarily suspended on Dec. 28 after the board of the Law Society of B.C. "determined that extraordinary action was necessary to protect the public," according to an email sent to CBC News on Tuesday.

"The suspension will last until the order is rescinded or varied," the email read.

The temporary ban is the latest development in a legal back-and-forth between Arbabi and her neighbour, Colleen McLelland, which began with accusations of trespassing on roof space and developed into what McLelland describes as a fight based on debunked, pseudolegal arguments....

...For her part, Arbabi claimed that Canadian judges who have ruled on OPCA litigants don't really grasp the concepts of "natural law" and "trespass" that she bases her lawsuit on.

"Many courts, including the claimant, have trouble understanding what is often referred to as natural law. ... Natural law — or as i call it, just law — is that which is so obvious that it is not required to be written down into an act or statute," Arbabi said....

...In November, Arbabi agreed to meet with a CBC reporter to discuss her lawsuit, but upon arrival, declined to answer any questions. Instead, she read out a notice warning of consequences if a story were to be published without her consent.

"As such harm is a very grievous trespass, i, shall claim remedy in the amount of $500,000 for such trespass plus $5,000 a day for as long as the trespass continues," the notice read.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-lawyer-pseudolegal-lawsuit-1.7072762

[YOWetal]

I use to own a strata (townhouse) in Saskatoon about 15 years ago. Purchased when under construction and was the second owner to move in. So ended up on the board.

At the time Saskatchewan required every strata to engage an engineering firm to do a study that defined the maintenance plan with an estimate of what would be required in the reserve fund. I don't remember the interval but the study would need to be periodically updated. During the first few years most repairs were warranty items with the builder. We did have to make significant increases to the strata fees to build up a reserve fund.

My impression was the study was conservative. For example a 25 year roof was expected to replaced every 25 years. In practice it may not last to long beyond that but you may get a few extra years.

I was surprised when moving back to BC. Looking at some of the strata units in Victoria. The requirement for the engineering study was a new thing being phased into BC. Some of the units I looked at had a lot of maintenance issues and a fairly small reserve fund.

I went for a 70s building but stayed away from anything that did not have a good reserve fund and lacked a track record or keeping things in good repair.

BC had the entire leaky Condo phase where the remediation to remove mold and redo the building envelope caused a lot of special assessments. There are a few building like that around that are disasters.

The Engineering study requirement is peak Canada. We spend $5k every few years to find out if we need to save $200k or $250k a year well now $205k or $255k. In the end it's still just a prediction and thousands are spent on studies that add no value.