Highways In Canada II

[Xelebes]

This thread is a continuation of the previous thread. Please proceed.

[MonctonRad]

Archived previous thread here:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190293

[haljackey]

Obligatory photo of the big boi for page 1 of a new highways thread

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Evacuated_Highway_401_Color.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evacuated_Highway_401_Color.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Where are all the cars???

[Hawrylyshyn]

The 401 empty might be one of the strangest things I've ever seen

[Innsertnamehere]

:previous:

Where are all the cars???

photo was taken during the 2008 Sunrise propane explosion when the 401 was closed for a day or so:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Toronto_Propane_Explosion_-_2008.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_propane_explosion#/media/File:Toronto_Propane_Explosion_-_2008.jpg

[WhipperSnapper]

That's a great photo.


Who will win?

Nature or nuclear meltdown?

[Dengler Avenue]

And do we still need a separate thread for TCH twinning or should we simply combine that with this one?

[manny_santos]

photo was taken during the 2008 Sunrise propane explosion when the 401 was closed for a day or so:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Toronto_Propane_Explosion_-_2008.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_propane_explosion#/media/File:Toronto_Propane_Explosion_-_2008.jpg

It was perhaps the emptiest the 401 in Toronto has ever been. Even emptier than during the first Covid shutdowns in late March 2020 - I drove through Toronto on the 401 in the early evening on March 19, 2020 and there were still some vehicles, though it was like a Sunday morning at 6pm on a Thursday.

[Innsertnamehere]

I remember driving in the 401 at 5pm on a weekday in the first week of April 2020 and flying along at 115-120. Crazy really looking back.

It eventually got busier again of course, but traffic stayed noticeably lighter in the GTA for probably 2 years after before really returning to normal.

[Metro-One]

So while in BC this summer I took some shots of what I consider to be the most impressive segment of highway in Western Canada, the Cape Horn Interchange and Port Mann Bridge.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53278893141_bcdede1213_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb5fHT)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb5fHT) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53278004647_5af3ea59b7_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2paZGB2)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2paZGB2) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53278004592_2289b901a9_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2paZGA5)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2paZGA5) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53279358800_f06daf857f_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb7D9u)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb7D9u) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53279248129_157299cc39_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb75fn)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb75fn) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53279182208_d879cfe53f_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb6JDN)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb6JDN) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53278894036_8bce71c4fb_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb5fZj)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb5fZj) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53279359875_236b046f19_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb7Dt2)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb7Dt2) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53279360300_7bb51cfd81_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb7DAm)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb7DAm) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53278894551_bcf05c5d80_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pb5g9c)Cape Horn Interchange (https://flic.kr/p/2pb5g9c) by Ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/), on Flickr

[q12]

The 401 picture above reminds me of this empty 20 lane highway in Burma (shown in an old BBC Top Gear episode):

:tumbleweed:

https://www.indy100.com/media-library/picture.jpg?id=28117726&width=1200&height=600&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0

[Dengler Avenue]

The Cape Horn interchange at Coquitlam is built so nicely. I hope that Mary Hill Bypass gets grade separated eventually.

[Acajack]

The 401 picture above reminds me of this empty 20 lane highway in Burma (shown in an old BBC Top Gear episode):

:tumbleweed:

https://www.indy100.com/media-library/picture.jpg?id=28117726&width=1200&height=600&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C0

Should there be a lone girl doing yoga there with military tanks rolling behind her?

[MolsonExport]

Obligatory photo of the big boi for page 1 of a new highways thread

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Evacuated_Highway_401_Color.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evacuated_Highway_401_Color.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401

My eyes! Those wretched pseudo Chrysler building condos. Awwghgh! My eyes!! :runaway:

[haljackey]

I remember driving in the 401 at 5pm on a weekday in the first week of April 2020 and flying along at 115-120. Crazy really looking back.

I recall the morning of the Gold Medal Olympic hockey game in Sochi 2014- 401 was empty (as were other roads). That was maybe the quietest it has ever been other than being closed for one reason or another.

Stereotypical Canadian logic.

-----

My eyes! Those wretched pseudo Chrysler building condos. Awwghgh! My eyes!! :runaway:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/7f/fe/197ffed1d81f87b5d7a0d21e27c789d7.gif

-----

Should there be a lone girl doing yoga there with military tanks rolling behind her?

Here you go

6r6vnSR0wbI

-----

:previous:

Where are all the cars???

Ok here's the big boi with traffic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De2x3UhX4AANTOT?format=jpg
https://twitter.com/g_meslin/status/1003653864330092544

[Innsertnamehere]

The official slogan of the 401:

EXPRESS AND COLLECTOR MOVING SLOWLY BEYOND NEXT TRANSFER

[harls]

^think of the money they could have saved just making it a permanent sign.

[MolsonExport]

Nothing worse than being stuck on the far left lane of the "Express" lanes configuration, during one of the usual 401 traffic jams, and having one of your kids needing to "go to the bathroom very badly, Dad!!"

[Acajack]

I actually don't mind those Chrysler Building ripoff condos in Scarborough. They've always been a bit of a "welcome to Toronto" sign for me.

OK, you can shoot me now. :shitstorm: :runaway:

[MolsonExport]

They are in North York. And they are quite awful.

Behold:
The 10 Ugliest Condos in Toronto (https://www.blogto.com/city/2016/09/the_10_ugliest_condos_in_toronto/)

[Acajack]

They are in North York. And they are quite awful.

Behold:
The 10 Ugliest Condos in Toronto (https://www.blogto.com/city/2016/09/the_10_ugliest_condos_in_toronto/)

It might be another one I have in mind then. Not long after you enter Toronto from Ajax-Pickering. On the left so the south side of the 401. It's before the DVP because that is the exit I usually take.

[Dengler Avenue]

It might be another one I have in mind then. Not long after you enter Toronto from Ajax-Pickering. On the left so the south side of the 401. It's before the DVP because that is the exit I usually take.
The condo buildings on McCowan Road between 401 and Sheppard Avenue are unsightly IMO too, but that’s to the right.

[MolsonExport]

It might be another one I have in mind then. Not long after you enter Toronto from Ajax-Pickering. On the left so the south side of the 401. It's before the DVP because that is the exit I usually take.

These?
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7829103,-79.2456607,3a,47.1y,217.4h,110.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVGlQ-guXhNz-60MBrnzEtg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[Bobert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9ouIW64uw'

Kicking Horse Canyon Update

[manny_santos]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10116918/ontario-toronto-new-deal-doug-ford-olivia-chow/

I didn't have this on my 2023 Highways Bingo Card.

Probably not a major consideration at the moment, but I do wonder if they'll get numbered in some way, or if the "QEW" will take over the Gardiner. Or if we'll see "DVP" on an Ontario highway shield.

This also makes me wonder if the City of Ottawa will start pushing for the province to take over the 174 again, or if cities like Hamilton and Windsor that have municipally-owned expressways would start asking for similar treatment.

[Innsertnamehere]

I think Hamilton's RHVP and Linc should be uploaded - but E.C. Row and 174 are tougher sells. Maybe 174 as people from Clarence-Rockland use it.

The Linc and RHVP are key corridors connecting New York to Michigan and Niagara to SW Ontario however and play really important provincial roles.

[Dengler Avenue]

If E.C. Row Expressway goes beyond Windsor City limit, that may be on the table too. No matter how rich the encircling Essex County is, maintaining a divided freeway is a sure way to break the budget.

[hipster duck]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10116918/ontario-toronto-new-deal-doug-ford-olivia-chow/

I didn't have this on my 2023 Highways Bingo Card.

Probably not a major consideration at the moment, but I do wonder if they'll get numbered in some way, or if the "QEW" will take over the Gardiner. Or if we'll see "DVP" on an Ontario highway shield.

This is a bit too Toronto-centric and I'm going to talk about non-highway stuff in the highways thread, but this is a huge win for the City of Toronto, and probably the most consequential thing Olivia Chow has ever done. Kudos to her.

Included in this highway uploading announcement:

- 55 new subway cars for the Bloor-Danforth line. That's hundreds of millions of dollars in savings for the City.
- The province assuming all the operating costs for the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch LRT lines. So not only does the city save on operating these lines, but it also frees up about 100 buses at rush hour that can be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Huge.

It was always getting more dubious with the province increasingly covering 100% of the funding of big capital projects in Toronto, but I'd say that this is the definitive end of the Mike Harris era of austerity and municipal downloading, and this all happened under a Conservative government.

[niwell]

Yeah this is a very good deal for Toronto and I'm pleasantly surprised with what Chow has managed to get done. Doug's government seems to be somewhat intimidated by her (basing this on what I've seen behind the scenes) which could lead to some good outcomes for Toronto.

Those highways never should have been 100% the responsibility of the City of Toronto, particularly with the Gardiner replacement. Some people are going to be pissed off about Ontario Place but the ultimately the City's hands are tied on this - the Province would have won out in the end.

[hipster duck]

I think Hamilton's RHVP and Linc should be uploaded - but E.C. Row and 174 are tougher sells. Maybe 174 as people from Clarence-Rockland use it.

The Linc and RHVP are key corridors connecting New York to Michigan and Niagara to SW Ontario however and play really important provincial roles.

There's definitely a case for those, although I think that Hamilton had its moment in the sun not too long ago when the province assumed the full cost of all the underground infrastructure upgrades along Hamilton's LRT corridor. For a city of Hamilton's size, that was no small thing.

[Innsertnamehere]

This is a bit too Toronto-centric and I'm going to talk about non-highway stuff in the highways thread, but this is a huge win for the City of Toronto, and probably the most consequential thing Olivia Chow has ever done. Kudos to her.

Included in this highway uploading announcement:

- 55 new subway cars for the Bloor-Danforth line. That's hundreds of millions of dollars in savings for the City.
- The province assuming all the operating costs for the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch LRT lines. So not only does the city save on operating these lines, but it also frees up about 100 buses at rush hour that can be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Huge.

It was always getting more dubious with the province increasingly covering 100% of the funding of big capital projects in Toronto, but I'd say that this is the definitive end of the Mike Harris era of austerity and municipal downloading, and this all happened under a Conservative government.
Ford has long behaved unlike a lot of historic conservative governments. His capital infrastructure program has been unprecedented in North America in spending - absolutely immense. The Liberals before him already had a strong program and he just dialed it up even more.

He's a very, very different politician than Harris was.

[Acajack]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10116918/ontario-toronto-new-deal-doug-ford-olivia-chow/

I didn't have this on my 2023 Highways Bingo Card.

Probably not a major consideration at the moment, but I do wonder if they'll get numbered in some way, or if the "QEW" will take over the Gardiner. Or if we'll see "DVP" on an Ontario highway shield.

This also makes me wonder if the City of Ottawa will start pushing for the province to take over the 174 again, or if cities like Hamilton and Windsor that have municipally-owned expressways would start asking for similar treatment.

Ontario taking over the 174 would be great news for Ottawa.

[Loco101]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10116918/ontario-toronto-new-deal-doug-ford-olivia-chow/

I didn't have this on my 2023 Highways Bingo Card.

Probably not a major consideration at the moment, but I do wonder if they'll get numbered in some way, or if the "QEW" will take over the Gardiner. Or if we'll see "DVP" on an Ontario highway shield.

This also makes me wonder if the City of Ottawa will start pushing for the province to take over the 174 again, or if cities like Hamilton and Windsor that have municipally-owned expressways would start asking for similar treatment.

It might make a lot of other municipalities upset that Toronto is getting such major roadways uploaded when many smaller places are saddled with huge downloaded road costs and have much higher property taxes than T.O. This is the case in Timmins but the Ford government has promised a huge amount of money for upgrading the municipal portion of Hwy 101 here known as a connecting link.

As for the numbering I can certainly see the DVP (Don Valley Parkway) being numbered as Hwy 404 but the DVP name remaining for the part that currently has that name. Probably will see two shield side-by-side. The exit numbers of Hwy 404 are a continuation of the DVP as they have always been considered to be the same highway even if the names and government in charge was different.

As the the Gardiner Expressway, its exit numbers are a continuation from the QEW. It's possible that the QEW signage could go to where it meets the DVP but I don't think that will happen because it would cause confusion.

[Dengler Avenue]

It will be interesting if someone in MTO decides to have QEW absorb 404. In that case, QEW will have exit numbers in the 200s. ;)
Regardless, this will be interesting as both highways now have segments in 110 kph, 100 kph and 90 kph (excluding QEW near the border).

[dmuzika]

It might make a lot of other municipalities upset that Toronto is getting such major roadways uploaded when many smaller places are saddled with huge downloaded road costs and have much higher property taxes than T.O. This is the case in Timmins but the Ford government has promised a huge amount of money for upgrading the municipal portion of Hwy 101 here known as a connecting link.

As for the numbering I can certainly see the DVP (Don Valley Parkway) being numbered as Hwy 404 but the DVP name remaining for the part that currently has that name. Probably will see two shield side-by-side. The exit numbers of Hwy 404 are a continuation of the DVP as they have always been considered to be the same highway even if the names and government in charge was different.

As the the Gardiner Expressway, its exit numbers are a continuation from the QEW. It's possible that the QEW signage could go to where it meets the DVP but I don't think that will happen because it would cause confusion.

I'm wondering if the Gardiner Expressway would become part of unsigned Highway 451 (the 400-series number associated with the QEW) but maintain its name?

There are rumors that 174 might be uploaded, https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/deal-between-ottawa-and-province-similar-to-toronto-likely-coming-sources-1.6662824. If that were to transpire, I'm curious how extensive that would be (freeway section of 174, all of 174, or all of RR174/CR17 that covers all of former Hwy 17)? Also, would an uploaded RR174 become Hwy 174, a revived Hwy 17, or something else?

[Acajack]

I'm wondering if the Gardiner Expressway would become part of unsigned Highway 451 (the 400-series number associated with the QEW) but maintain its name?

There are rumors that 174 might be uploaded, https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/deal-between-ottawa-and-province-similar-to-toronto-likely-coming-sources-1.6662824. If that were to transpire, I'm curious how extensive that would be (freeway section of 174, all of 174, or all of RR174/CR17 that covers all of former Hwy 17)? Also, would an uploaded RR174 become Hwy 174, a revived Hwy 17, or something else?

It's county road 17 east of Ottawa in Prescott-Russell, all the way to where it links up with the 417 about 10 km from the Quebec border and A-40.

[haljackey]

This is a bit too Toronto-centric and I'm going to talk about non-highway stuff in the highways thread, but this is a huge win for the City of Toronto, and probably the most consequential thing Olivia Chow has ever done. Kudos to her.

Included in this highway uploading announcement:

- 55 new subway cars for the Bloor-Danforth line. That's hundreds of millions of dollars in savings for the City.
- The province assuming all the operating costs for the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch LRT lines. So not only does the city save on operating these lines, but it also frees up about 100 buses at rush hour that can be redeployed elsewhere in the system. Huge.

It was always getting more dubious with the province increasingly covering 100% of the funding of big capital projects in Toronto, but I'd say that this is the definitive end of the Mike Harris era of austerity and municipal downloading, and this all happened under a Conservative government.

"Progressive" Conservative.

I think this is a win for all. I think everyone realizes that the DVP/Gardiner are extremely important roads from a provincial standpoint. Why would Toronto be paying for maintaining something that is utilized by many people outside the city limits? Either make all of the GTA chip in or just make it a provincial highway, the latter being much easier to implement.

Douggie looks good here, and he needs a win after the greenbelt fiasco.

I don't live in Toronto but I see those two freeways just like any other freeway on the 400 series. The same goes for the freeways in Hamilton- those have merit to be uploaded too.... they save me a ton of time going from London to Niagara Falls / east into the USA.

[hipster duck]

Is there any plan to extend the freeway portion of 174 east beyond Trim? Or at least to widen it to 4 lanes?

[Acajack]

Is there any plan to extend the freeway portion of 174 east beyond Trim? Or at least to widen it to 4 lanes?

See this article, but nothing's been done AFAIK.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/highway-174-widening-controversy-1.3473298

Note that the next logical section to be widened from Trim (Orleans) to Cumberland would be very difficult to do as the road hugs the Ottawa River and has a very small right-of-way with lots of properties on both sides of it. This segment is within the City of Ottawa boundaries.

The next section further east from Cumberland to Rockland would be easier as it runs through farm fields for the most part. This segment is outside Ottawa and in Clarence-Rockland which is part of the Prescott-Russell United Counties.

[Dengler Avenue]

Note that the next logical section to be widened from Trim (Orleans) to Cumberland would be very difficult to do as the road hugs the Ottawa River and has a very small right-of-way with lots of properties on both sides of it. This segment is within the City of Ottawa boundaries.
Given that Old Montreal Road was the old 17, I’ve always wondered whether 174 (then ON-17A) was already abutted by properties before the downloading. That whole stretch feels like a super 2 to me otherwise (including Old 17 Hawkesbury Bypass).
If 174 and old 17 do get widened to 4 lanes though, I’d like to race you from Parliament Hill to Anjou (you via A50-A15-A40, me via 417-174-17-417-A40). I wanna see which way’s faster. ;)

Il y a une petite compétition entre les deux rives de la Rivière des Outaouais. ;)

[Acajack]

Given that Old Montreal Road was the old 17, I’ve always wondered whether 174 (then ON-17A) was already abutted by properties before the downloading. That whole stretch feels like a super 2 to me otherwise (including Old 17 Hawkesbury Bypass).
If 174 and old 17 do get widened to 4 lanes though, I’d like to race you from Parliament Hill to Anjou (you via A50-A15-A40, me via 417-174-17-417-A40). I wanna see which way’s faster. ;)

Il y a une petite compétition entre les deux rives de la Rivière des Outaouais. ;)

The shore route of the 174 (former ON-17) in the Cumberland area has been there for a very long time. Maybe 50-60 years I think.

As for the 17 route in general from Orleans to east of Hawkesbury, it's almost a half and half mix of "new" (sic) routings and the path of the old road to Montreal. There are quite a few segments where the current 17 is the only main east-west road in the area. So logically that's where the road to Montreal has always been.

[srperrycgy]

CTV Calgary - Calgary's ring road, decades in the making, now complete (https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-s-ring-road-decades-in-the-making-now-complete-1.6691805)

[ssiguy]

Great news for Calgary. The freeway was desperately needed and by making it at least 6 lanes and fully grade separated while encircling the city with 101 km of roadway, they have future proofed the road. $4 billion well spent.

[youngregina]

Great news for Calgary. The freeway was desperately needed and by making it at least 6 lanes and fully grade separated while encircling the city with 101 km of roadway, they have future proofed the road. $4 billion well spent.

The total cost of the entire route is closer to $10-12 Billion if I’m not mistaken, and could certainly be higher given I’m pulling numbers from a presentation I did on the road a few years back. That $4 Billion is just the west portion - from 16th Ave to McLeod.

[Innsertnamehere]

It’s a good piece of infrastructure- but also rather overbuilt in most sections.

I’m all for future proofing, but some of the medians on the highway are ridiculous and lead to increased costs. Bridge structures on medians that large cost 2-3 times that of a regular freeway..

https://maps.app.goo.gl/EunFJXigsW79CdxP7?g_st=ic

[jamincan]

It’s a good piece of infrastructure- but also rather overbuilt in most sections.

I’m all for future proofing, but some of the medians on the highway are ridiculous and lead to increased costs. Bridge structures on medians that large cost 2-3 times that of a regular freeway..

https://maps.app.goo.gl/EunFJXigsW79CdxP7?g_st=ic

It looks like they build it out to accommodate a 12-lane express-collector setup like the 401.

[Dengler Avenue]

I can’t tell whether that part is in the FN. If yes, it makes sense. If not, it feels rather ambitious…

[thewave46]

It’s a good piece of infrastructure- but also rather overbuilt in most sections.

I’m all for future proofing, but some of the medians on the highway are ridiculous and lead to increased costs. Bridge structures on medians that large cost 2-3 times that of a regular freeway..

https://maps.app.goo.gl/EunFJXigsW79CdxP7?g_st=ic

This was a product of the deal negotiated with the FN.

I suspect Alberta Transportation wanted to push the construction to the edge of the right-of-way in order to establish an effective boundary it could develop within.

Had the province developed the smaller cross-section first (as is usual for these things), the FN might have been able to 'reclaim' some of the land after the agreement lapsed. The Alberta government would have to renegotiate if they wanted to expand the footprint of the road after the fact.

Anyway, congrats to Calgary on their new ring road being complete!

[ericmacm]

Happy to see the Calgary Ring Road finally complete. Looking forward to eventually seeing more ring road projects across Alberta advance, like for Red Deer and for the east portion of Grande Prairie’s ring road project.

[Dengler Avenue]

Happy to see the Calgary Ring Road finally complete. Looking forward to eventually seeing more ring road projects across Alberta advance, like for Red Deer and for the east portion of Grande Prairie’s ring road project.

I didn’t know that Grande Prairie had a grand plan until you mentioned.
https://www.countygp.ab.ca/en/county-government/highway-40x-connector.aspx
Here’s hoping that a freeway flowing interchange is futureproofed for 43 & 40X.

Edit: https://cityofgp.com/sites/default/files/2022-01/transportation_master_plan_2020.pdf slides 155-156
Beautiful ;)

[hipster duck]

Why would Grande Prairie or Red Deer need a ring road?

In both cases, they already have a freeway bypassing them in the dominant direction of through travel -east-west for GP, north-south for Red Deer.

Ring roads are very expensive because they're very lengthy and add a lot of trip distance. Let's say you're trying to get to the "other side" of a circle of a 10 km diameter. If you go through the centre, you travel 10 km. If you go halfway around the circumference, you have to travel 15.7 km to get to the same spot. In a relatively small city with free flowing traffic, is this extra 50% in distance made up for in any time savings?

[MonctonRad]

Ring roads are very expensive because they're very lengthy and add a lot of trip distance. Let's say you're trying to get to the "other side" of a circle of a 10 km diameter. If you go through the centre, you travel 10 km. If you go halfway around the circumference, you have to travel 15.7 km to get to the same spot. In a relatively small city with free flowing traffic, is this extra 50% in distance made up for in any time savings?

I've often wondered this with Wheeler Blvd (our ring expressway in Moncton). In general I very rarely travel the full ring, or even 2/3rds the ring. Usually I use it to get to nearby peripheral neighbourhoods (southbound to Riverview, eastbound to Dieppe). I think this is the way most people use it. It makes sense for this type of segmented travel. Most people drive 110-120 km/hr on Wheeler. It makes crosstown travel a lot quicker than driving through the core at 40-50 km/hr with multiple traffic lights along the way. Less direct, but, more convenient.

[Jaws]

Happy to see the Calgary Ring Road finally complete. Looking forward to eventually seeing more ring road projects across Alberta advance, like for Red Deer and for the east portion of Grande Prairie’s ring road project.

Alberta's highway need is an updated QE2 with a minimum of three lanes in each direction for its full length and merge/exit lanes built to modern standards. And access limited proper interchanges.

[hipster duck]

I've often wondered this with Wheeler Blvd (our ring expressway in Moncton). In general I very rarely travel the full ring, or even 2/3rds the ring. Usually I use it to get to nearby peripheral neighbourhoods (southbound to Riverview, eastbound to Dieppe). I think this is the way most people use it. It makes sense for this type of segmented travel. Most people drive 110-120 km/hr on Wheeler. It makes crosstown travel a lot quicker than driving through the core at 40-50 km/hr with multiple traffic lights along the way. Less direct, but, more convenient.

That sounds about right - nobody would travel the full length of a ring road unless they were highway nerds because you'd come right back to where you started :P

Logically, almost everybody would travel half of the distance of a ring road or less unless there's something unforeseen like a closure/accident.

Most people would do what you do: travel if for a small portion of the ring just to get to somewhere nearby. This basically turns ring roads from bypasses into local highways, which kind of defeats their purpose. In a place like Moncton or maybe even Calgary and Edmonton (for now) this isn't a problem, but in much bigger cities like Houston or DC the main ring road is perennially jammed for this reason and the solution is...to build another ring road further out! Houston is on to its 3rd ring road now, which will be a whopping 270 km long when fully built out!

[ericmacm]

Alberta's highway need is an updated QE2 with a minimum of three lanes in each direction for its full length and merge/exit lanes built to modern standards. And access limited proper interchanges.

I totally agree. I would even go a step further and say that they need to build out a modern grade separated corridor all the way from Edmonton to Coutts, as well as finishing what they started with HWY 63 to complete a more direct twinned connection from Fort McMurray to Edmonton.

[Innsertnamehere]

Just getting the Trans Canada and Highway 2 from Edmonton down to Coutts to not have any stoplights and be a single, direct, 4-lane, median separated highway should be the goal.

Fretting about small farm crossings isn't a huge deal, other than perhaps between Calgary and Edmonton. There just really shouldn't be any stoplights.

Alberta needs to focus on the Strathmore Bypass, the Fort Macleod bypass, connect Highway 4 to 3 in Lethbridge with a freeway, build some interchanges in Medicine Hat, etc.

[Build.It]

Henday in Edmonton isn't particularly useful unless you live in the far outer burbs and need to get somewhere else in the far outer burbs.

Whitemud is very useful, and Yellowhead will be as well once it's fully grade-separated.

Biggest thing missing are two complete N-S freeways. One around 50 St, and another around Fox Drive, for example.

[Dengler Avenue]

Henday in Edmonton isn't particularly useful unless you live in the far outer burbs and need to get somewhere else in the far outer burbs.

Whitemud is very useful, and Yellowhead will be as well once it's fully grade-separated.

Biggest thing missing are two complete N-S freeways. One around 50 St, and another around Fox Drive, for example.
Sometimes I wish that Highway 2 punches through Edmonton as a freeway all the way past Highway 37, just like through Calgary.

[sonysnob]

Autoroute 13 in Laval, Quebec:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/13/A13_cl_17_north_NB_t_Aug21_forum.png
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/A/13/A13_cl_17_north_NB_t_Aug21_42x28.png

[flipper316]

Honestly jealous of the quality and quantity of highways in Alberta compared to BC.

[Dengler Avenue]

Honestly jealous of the quality and quantity of highways in Alberta compared to BC.

The Rocky Mountain also acts as a divide of road-building philosophies. :D
An example will be B.C.-2 near Tupper and AB-43.
=====
Ps: There’s a photo of A-13 in Quebec on the previous page by @sonysnob.

[Tvisforme]

Honestly jealous of the quality and quantity of highways in Alberta compared to BC.

Isn't it rather easier to build in Alberta, though?

The Rocky Mountain also acts as a divide of road-building philosophies. :D
An example will be B.C.-2 near Tupper and AB-43.

I'm curious as to what difference you are referring to with this example. Looking at where they meet on Street View, they seem to be comparable.

[Dengler Avenue]

I'm curious as to what difference you are referring to with this example. Looking at where they meet on Street View, they seem to be comparable.
AB-43 is divided 4 lanes for the most part. As for B.C.-2, which is an extension of AB-43, even where it’s got 4 lanes, it’s undivided 4 lanes instead.

So, imagine: Even if B.C. and Alberta agree to widen B.C.-2 and AB-43 to 4 lanes all the way to Fort St. John, at the border, you’re gonna see the divided 4 lanes in Alberta become undivided 4 lanes in B.C. ;)
I’d imagine the same thing for Crowsnest Highway.
TCH is the only exception.

[dmuzika]

Just getting the Trans Canada and Highway 2 from Edmonton down to Coutts to not have any stoplights and be a single, direct, 4-lane, median separated highway should be the goal.

Fretting about small farm crossings isn't a huge deal, other than perhaps between Calgary and Edmonton. There just really shouldn't be any stoplights.

Alberta needs to focus on the Strathmore Bypass, the Fort Macleod bypass, connect Highway 4 to 3 in Lethbridge with a freeway, build some interchanges in Medicine Hat, etc.

The farm crossings slong Hwy 2 in Mountain View County needed to be closed 25 years ago. There's maybe one that could be grade separated between Olds and Bowden, but the rest could be consolidated to the existing interchanges at Carstairs, Didsbury, and Olds. The province is studying an interchange at 338 Avenue, due east of Okotoks, which combined with a few at grade closures would make it free flowing as far south as High River. While the at grade crossings in Mountain View County are annoying, the ones northeast of Okotoks actually are a legitimate safety concern with all the acreages in the area.

The two bypasses that might not get enough attention are Nanton and Claresholm. Like Fort Macleod and TCH 16 through Edson, Hwy 2 is a one-way pair through Nanton with a 50 km/h speed limit and unlimited access, and can get pretty busy over the weekend. Claresholm isn't much better, and boasts the first traffic light on Hwy 2 south of Edmonton. That might have been a cute marketing tag line 20 years ago, but with the growth of the Calgary and Lethbridge, and province overall, it's time for a bypass. The Fort Macleod bypass is also needed, especially with the focus of twinning Hwy 3. A lot of traffic uses Hwy 519 & 23 between Granum and Monarch to bypass Fort Macleod, but it's only two lanes and isn't designed for that. Fort Macleod has an at-grade railway crossing with a fairly busy CP line, which is unacceptable for two major highways.

I also think Alberta should move the Highway 2 designation to Highway 4. Highway 2, especially south of Edmonton, is synonymous with being a major north-south highway with Lethbridge is the control city south of Calgary and Coutts is the major US border crossing, yet it doesn't go through either. Having recently traveled Hwy 2 and US 89, it feels like a different world from the section north of Fort Macleod. It would make more sense IMO for it to continue to I-15.

[foolworm]

Isn't Highway 413 supposed to be moving ahead as well? That is probably the biggest road project in Canada right now, bar none.

[Loco101]

Isn't Highway 413 supposed to be moving ahead as well? That is probably the biggest road project in Canada right now, bar none.

Nothing has started for Hwy 413. We will likely know by Spring if the ON government is actually going ahead. My guess is that it will depend on the state of the economy. There is also the argument that a deal with Hwy 407 ETR would be much cheaper.

[ssiguy]

Isn't it rather easier to build in Alberta, though?


That makes for a good excuse for Victoria not spending any money on it's highways but is not based on reality.

Relatively VERY few people actually live in the mountainous areas of BC as 95% live in valleys. HWY#1 from Langley to Chilliwack is as flat as a rock as is HWY#99 from Vancouver to the US Border. On the Island, except for the Malahat, the entire highway to CR is not more hilly than you get anywhere else in the country. Same goes for the route from Cache Creek to Prince George, and even a good chunk of HWY#1 from Kamloops to Salmon Arm. Even most of the Okanagan is not very hiily due, once again, to being in a valley.

When you consider that any of the Coastal cities have near non-existent snow removal, the budget difference is glaring. Yes, BC does have the expense of the Ferries but they sure charge you enough to take them. BC's highway system is truly horrid but that's due to choice not geography.

[Innsertnamehere]

Nothing has started for Hwy 413. We will likely know by Spring if the ON government is actually going ahead. My guess is that it will depend on the state of the economy. There is also the argument that a deal with Hwy 407 ETR would be much cheaper.

The province is trying to move forward on the highway, they were out for more consultation on it, including introducing an online detailed alignment viewer on the website, a few months ago:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/db76d6b5387140dab22f07c17c1ac346/

They are trying to get out of the Federal EA designation right now. If that happens, they will be able to save several years of approvals. We'll have to see if that happens.

[Harrison]

Sometimes I wish that Highway 2 punches through Edmonton as a freeway all the way past Highway 37, just like through Calgary.

Same, it could be done if the Manning Drive /Fort Road / Wayne Gretzky Drive / 75 Street corridor is upgraded. That lead from Gateway Boulevard and the Whitemud, which is already mainly free-flow. I doubt it will happen now unless the GOA gets involved though, as it would be very expensive to retrofit that corridor into a free-flowing configuration.

[flipper316]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/466204/Manitoba-commits-12M-to-improve-intersection-that-was-site-of-deadly-bus-crash#466204

Wtf . An interchange is not even in the talks . Is Manitoba anti freeway like BC is.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/466204/Manitoba-commits-12M-to-improve-intersection-that-was-site-of-deadly-bus-crash#466204

Wtf . An interchange is not even in the talks . Is Manitoba anti freeway like BC is.

In the long term, it is.

[Innsertnamehere]

To be fair that intersection would be pretty far down the priority list for an interchange in Manitoba. Letting it jump the priority list to the top would be political.

Doesn’t mean Manitoba shouldn’t be spending more on interchanges.. but there are probably 15-20 higher priority spots first.

[Metro-One]

Unlike BC Manitoba has no excuse. The terrain is relatively easy and cheap to build full freeway grade highways.

In fact outside of Edmonton and Calgary (and to some extent Saskatoon) the highway quality in the Prairies is really bad considering the low cost and easy terrain.

[Dengler Avenue]

Unlike BC Manitoba has no excuse. The terrain is relatively easy and cheap to build full freeway grade highways.

In fact outside of Edmonton and Calgary (and to some extent Saskatoon) the highway quality in the Prairies is really bad considering the low cost and easy terrain.
Flat terrain can be geologically deceptive, though. One will have to check what kind of soil is underneath.
Also, if the terrain is too flat, drainage becomes problematic. That’s why floodways are needed to protect Winnipeg. This is also probably why interchanges on Winnipeg Perimeter Highway (and at Deacon’s Corners, for that matter) are hard to come by.
The best terrain for road building is the rolling hills of Saint Lawrence Lowland in Southern Ontario (and parts of Quebec).

In a sense, Interior B.C. and Manitoba may be at two geological extremes, with Greater Golden Horseshoe right in the middle, the sweet spot* (for constructions).
* Not anywhere near Niagara Escarpment, that is.

[MonctonRad]

In a sense, Interior B.C. and Manitoba may be at two geological extremes, with Greater Golden Horseshoe right in the middle, the sweet spot* (for constructions).
* Not anywhere near Niagara Escarpment, that is.

And, what explains the expansive expressway network in NB and NS (aside from federal largesse)?

[Dengler Avenue]

And, what explains the expansive expressway network in NB and NS (aside from federal largesse)?

Private Public Partnership (done right), which hasn’t been attempted in either B.C. or Manitoba ;)

[haljackey]

Unlike BC Manitoba has no excuse. The terrain is relatively easy and cheap to build full freeway grade highways.


Everyone is screaming for an interchange here (and along the rest of the Trans Canada). However.... not only does Manitoba need to find the funds for this but it will cost them more in the future to maintain it.

I think political pressure will ultimately result in a simple interchange here, despite traffic volumes not warranting it. It could be a catalyst to build more interchanges on the Trans Canada and if a political party pledges to do that, it's a big vote grab for the next election.

Getting the Trans Canada up to freeway standards from Calgary to the Ontario border seems fairly simple to do on paper, but it just comes down to $.

(I'd also love to see a HSR line built in the median like they are doing on I-15 between LA and Vegas, but that' s a pipe dream)

[Djeffery]

Not sure how old this drone footage is and probably not new to many here, but this just came up in my twitter feed today and thought this was pretty cool. This is from the landslide in Quebec in 2009 that took out a section of Route 112.

https://x.com/historyinmemes/status/1749558558448824651?s=20

[craner]

Any update on the A85 connection to NB - is it almost done ?

[Dengler Avenue]

Not sure how old this drone footage is and probably not new to many here, but this just came up in my twitter feed today and thought this was pretty cool. This is from the landslide in Quebec in 2009 that took out a section of Route 112.

https://x.com/historyinmemes/status/1749558558448824651?s=20
Was this at one of those former mines? It seemed that the rock mass gave way underneath the roadway.
Edit: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/443721/glissement-coleraine-rte112
Any update on the A85 connection to NB - is it almost done ?
Wait till 2026. ;)
Some new interim 2-lane section may be opened this year and next year, though.
Who knows, maybe by the time that MTQ finishes A-85, NSTIR will have finished twinning N.S.-104 even further. :P

[WildCake]

And, what explains the expansive expressway network in NB and NS (aside from federal largesse)?

I copied some of my response in a MB Highway thread regarding this exact statement.

Population density and flood protection infrastructure are big reasons Manitoba lags behind other provinces.

Population Density

MB Q3 2023 estimate: 1 454 902 residents; land area 553 556 km^2
NB Q3 2023 estimate: 834 691 residents; land area 71 450 km^2


So just at that, Manitoba has ~1.75x the population, but 7.75 times the land to service. I recognize that the north doesn't have as much infrastructure but there still has to be some service out there. To support this, here's an older stat on how many kms of public roads each province had in 2003. MB had almost 87 000 km and NB 31 500 km, so ~2.76 times as many kms of roadway per citizen to maintain and snow clear.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...tbl001-eng.htm

Flood infrastructure

Flood related infrastructure that MB has had to deal with is a major reason why Saskatchewan, with a population density in the same ballpark, has much greater highway infrastructure.

Just looking at the Red River floodway, which cost 63 million at completion in 1968 (526 million in today's dollars), and its expansion which cost 627 million at full completion in 2014 (790 million today).

The province paid 40% of the original dig and 50% of the expansion, so that is about 605 million in today's dollars that was spent on one piece of the flood protection puzzle in the province. There have also been smaller but not insignificant projects in that time.

The original floodway cost was >90% of the province's annual revenues at the time, and it happened in the mid-60s, and at a critical time when the rest of the continent started rolling out the red carpet for the personal car and building modern highways and freeways.

[thewave46]

Manitoba's flood protection paid for itself many times over.

Back to highways, Quebec A-35 (https://globalnews.ca/news/9816138/a35-highway-construction-delay-july-2023/) is seemingly the equivalent of Windows updates that won't get past 99%.

[Dengler Avenue]

Manitoba's flood protection paid for itself many times over.

Back to highways, Quebec A-35 (https://globalnews.ca/news/9816138/a35-highway-construction-delay-july-2023/) is seemingly the equivalent of Windows updates that won't get past 99%.

A-50 can feel like that too. Only parts of the widening on the east side of Gatineau were opened because groundwater infiltrated under the WB overpass atop Rte-309…

As for A-35, though, there was technically something late last year: https://www.wcax.com/2023/10/11/key-section-canadian-autoroute-35-now-open/?outputType=amp

[Innsertnamehere]

Premier Ford at a conference today:

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/1707156201413-png.538340/

I believe this may be a rumoured tunneled widening of the 401 through Central Toronto. The PCs had some telephone polling on it a while ago, apparently in partnership with Transurban, an Australian company which has built many of the tunneled highways in Australia. Transurban already operates a toll bridge in Montreal, so they do have a presence here.

I imagine it would be tolled to finance it as it would be ridiculously expensive.

I also wouldn't put too much stock into it actually happening as it would be insanely expensive and likely not supported by other parties, which would be basically required to get it to construction, unless the PCs have an illustriously long term in government.

[hipster duck]

Premier Ford at a conference today:

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/1707156201413-png.538340/

I believe this may be a rumoured tunneled widening of the 401 through Central Toronto. The PCs had some telephone polling on it a while ago, apparently in partnership with Transurban, an Australian company which has built many of the tunneled highways in Australia. Transurban already operates a toll bridge in Montreal, so they do have a presence here.

I imagine it would be tolled to finance it as it would be ridiculously expensive.

I also wouldn't put too much stock into it actually happening as it would be insanely expensive and likely not supported by other parties, which would be basically required to get it to construction, unless the PCs have an illustriously long term in government.

Was it definitely a highway-related rumour?

Could it not be something like a massive nuclear power plant?

EDIT: Never mind - was a presentation to a road builders conference.

[GreaterMontréal]

According to the MTQ's interactive traffic flow map, updated in January 2024, the A-15 in Saint-Jérôme reaches a AADT of 120,000. That's 45km from downtown Montreal.

A-15
52,000 in Saint-Sauveur
120,000 in St-Jérôme
160,000 in Blainville-Mirabel
185,000 in Sainte-Thérèse , 500m north of the A-15/A-640 interchange
175,000 on the Médéric-Martin bridge in Laval-Montreal
160,000 on Décarie highway
135,000 on the Turcot interchange

that's about 55km of continuous 120,000+

[dmuzika]

Premier Ford at a conference today:

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/1707156201413-png.538340/

I believe this may be a rumoured tunneled widening of the 401 through Central Toronto. The PCs had some telephone polling on it a while ago, apparently in partnership with Transurban, an Australian company which has built many of the tunneled highways in Australia. Transurban already operates a toll bridge in Montreal, so they do have a presence here.

I imagine it would be tolled to finance it as it would be ridiculously expensive.

I also wouldn't put too much stock into it actually happening as it would be insanely expensive and likely not supported by other parties, which would be basically required to get it to construction, unless the PCs have an illustriously long term in government.

Do you have any more information about the rumored tunnel? I Googled "Highway 401 tunnel" and found info about a proposed GO Train tunnel under the Highway 401/409 interchange.

[Dengler Avenue]

According to the MTQ's interactive traffic flow map, updated in January 2024, the A-15 in Saint-Jérôme reaches a AADT of 120,000. That's 45km from downtown Montreal.

A-15
52,000 in Saint-Sauveur
120,000 in St-Jérôme
160,000 in Blainville-Mirabel
185,000 in Sainte-Thérèse , 500m north of the A-15/A-640 interchange
175,000 on the Médéric-Martin bridge in Laval-Montreal
160,000 on Décarie highway
135,000 on the Turcot interchange

that's about 55km of continuous 120,000+
ON-401 can probably easily beat that. :D
Do you have any more information about the rumored tunnel? I Googled "Highway 401 tunnel" and found info about a proposed GO Train tunnel under the Highway 401/409 interchange.
It’s literally just rumour right now.

[MonctonRad]

Feds will stop investing in 'large' road projects, environment minister says
Steven Guilbeault revised his comments after saying Ottawa would stop investing in new road infrastructure
John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 14, 2024 12:10 PM AST | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/guilbeault-no-new-roads-1.7114867

"There will be no more envelopes from the federal government to enlarge the road network," Guilbeault said, according to quotes published in the Montreal Gazette.

"We can very well achieve our goals of economic, social and human development without more enlargement of the road network."

Guilbeault said the federal government is intent on moving people out of their cars and into public transportation, which the government has spent billions to build.

He said the federal government also wants to encourage "active transit," which means getting people to walk and cycle.

In a country as large as Canada, with weather as fickle as Canada's, Guilbeault's comments seem pretty tone deaf. This guy is both out of touch and out to lunch........

Yet another nail in the coffin of this Liberal administration.

[Base]

That's quite the statement for sure.

[Dengler Avenue]

I see the backlash gaining ground.

[MonctonRad]

I see the backlash gaining ground.

The more the Liberals shoot themselves in the foot, the less concerned I become of PP's obvious deficiencies.

It's time to throw the virtue signaling woke bums out. A four year PP interregnum of Conservative chaos is a small price to pay for a complete reset down the road and a return to normalcy.

[ericmacm]

I wouldn’t be so mad about a statement like this if the feds had a concrete plan to roll out actual high-speed rail and expand rapid transit into the smaller metro areas of the country. They obviously don’t, though, so I cannot possibly figure out why someone would willingly come out and make such a braindead announcement like this.

Our road network is still very far away from complete or even reliable, especially for roads like BC Highway 1, where the feds are literally the ones that have to complete the twinning on a large portion of the highway.

[manny_santos]

Feds will stop investing in 'large' road projects, environment minister says
Steven Guilbeault revised his comments after saying Ottawa would stop investing in new road infrastructure
John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 14, 2024 12:10 PM AST | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/guilbeault-no-new-roads-1.7114867



In a country as large as Canada, with weather as fickle as Canada's, Guilbeault's comments seem pretty tone deaf. This guy is both out of touch and out to lunch........

Yet another nail in the coffin of this Liberal administration.

As someone who has stood by the federal Liberals for a long time, this is incredibly disappointing for me to learn about. It is extremely out of touch.

Even if we, hypothetically, entirely eliminate passenger vehicles from highways, we still have trucks that need modern and safe highways to transport goods across the country as well as in and out of the country.

I'm guessing Guilbeault has never seen the Trans-Canada Highway between Ottawa and Kamloops, particularly through Northern Ontario. Or the situation we have in Metro Vancouver and the Fraser Valley.

I wouldn't be so irritated by this if the federal government had a plan to improve intercity rail and regional public transit. Joe Biden has a plan for intercity rail in the United States; where's our plan?

[ssiguy]

What I don't understand is why traffic in our big cities and even on rural highways continues to get worse by the day.

It's not like Trudeau has sent our housing costs into the stratosphere resulting in people having to move long distances away from their jobs and hence commute by car because there is no transit service. It's not like we have a booming economy because, under Trudeau, he has made sure we have a shrinking one and have had for 18 months and he has ensured that trend will continue. It's not like more people are working because unemployment is edging up and most of the new jobs created are part time. It's not like Trudeau offers bribes to wealthy EV owners to buy new cars but doesn't offer a dime to help transit agencies with their operational costs. It's not like we don't have great train service. True, you can't get from Calgary to Edmonton via the train but you can from Prince Rupert to Prince George and that stretch of highway is far busier than HWY#2. Finally, it's certainly not because Trudeau has an open-door immigration policy letting in 1.2 million new suckers into the country every year.

I can truly not wait until we see the back of these lunatics.

[craner]

Feds will stop investing in 'large' road projects, environment minister says
Steven Guilbeault revised his comments after saying Ottawa would stop investing in new road infrastructure
John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 14, 2024 12:10 PM AST | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/guilbeault-no-new-roads-1.7114867



In a country as large as Canada, with weather as fickle as Canada's, Guilbeault's comments seem pretty tone deaf. This guy is both out of touch and out to lunch........

Yet another nail in the coffin of this Liberal administration.
^This is idiotic - what fantasy world is this guy (Guilbeault) living in?
Has he driven from Calgary to Vancouver (for just one example)?


Our road network is still very far away from complete or even reliable, especially for roads like BC Highway 1, where the feds are literally the ones that have to complete the twinning on a large portion of the highway.
^Exactly!

[Dartguard]

^This is idiotic - what fantasy world is this guy (Guilbeault) living in?
Has he driven from Calgary to Vancouver (for just one example)?


^Exactly!

Guilbault has never owned a car. A completley out of touch grown assed man that may not even have a drivers license.

[manny_santos]

Guilbault has never owned a car. A completley out of touch grown assed man that may not even have a drivers license.

Ah, so he's probably part of F*ckCars on Reddit.

[Kilgore Trout]

I turn 40 this year and I've never owned a car.

Am I still a man?!