Baseball 2023

[thurmas]

Minnesota Twins beat Jays 3-1 tonight in MLB playoffs snapping 18 game playoff loss record since 2004. Go Twinkies!

[thebasketballgeek]

Blue Jays are such a frustrating team to watch. When we had arguably one of the best pitching staffs in the league our bats just completely shit the bed.

I’m not even sure I want Vlad on the team once his years of control are up and I have his jersey. At least Bo looks like he gives a shit.

[thurmas]

I was an expos fan as a kid and always found jays corporate Canada's team so never been into them. Have preferred Twins and Tigers since spos left.

[Nicko999]

Speaking of the Expos... look at who rocked the jersey yesterday!

https://i.postimg.cc/vmyh22mM/Screenshot-2023-10-03-230118.png
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx1GzBzRKct/

For those that don't know Brady was drafted by the Expos in 1995.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Still a Jays fan, regardless of whether I'm supposed to like them or not. I agree they have been a frustrating team to follow this year. They always seem to be just a couple of hits away from greatness...

I'm curious to see how the Orioles do this year - their playoff story looks like it's going to be an interesting one.

[blacktrojan3921]

Being a Jay's fan in 2023 is essentially living with a hernia at this point lmao.

[VANRIDERFAN]

I was an expos fan as a kid and always found jays corporate Canada's team so never been into them. Have preferred Twins and Tigers since spos left.

I'm with you. I really haven't returned to baseball after the Expos got fucked over. I refuse to support a Toronto team just because I'm Canadian and I'm supposed to?

[MolsonExport]

I'm with you. I really haven't returned to baseball after the Expos got fucked over. I refuse to support a Toronto team just because I'm Canadian and I'm supposed to?

this x 10000


Jeffrey Loria and David Samson are lower than pond scum. May they rot in hell.

[suburbanite]

I'm with you. I really haven't returned to baseball after the Expos got fucked over. I refuse to support a Toronto team just because I'm Canadian and I'm supposed to?

I think it's more just that pretty much anyone across Canada can flip on Sportsnet and watch 90% of Jays games every year. Accessibility is the quickest route to fandom.

I've found it very hard to stay interested in this current iteration of the Jay's roster. They seem to have the opposite of the clutch gene that made every game worth watching with the previous 2015/2016 teams.

[YOWetal]

I think it's more just that pretty much anyone across Canada can flip on Sportsnet and watch 90% of Jays games every year. Accessibility is the quickest route to fandom.

I've found it very hard to stay interested in this current iteration of the Jay's roster. They seem to have the opposite of the clutch gene that made every game worth watching with the previous 2015/2016 teams.

Agree the only way to be a baseball fan is to be all in.

They seem disinterested in winning for sure. I mean it's playoff baseball so it's ramped up but that muscle memory is weak.

[WhipperSnapper]

I was expecting fewer runs but, not this struggle to score runs and I'm starting to believe Schneider is the wrong manager for the team or, more importantly, Vlad. He just needs to clear his head and go up to the plate and swing and put on a home run jacket after rounding the bases. Can't expect to score bunches of runs stringing hits together with a .250 team average. The art of the steal has been absent in the second half as well. Not a fan, This era's scoring remains heavily reliant on home runs.

I don't recall as many managerial in game decisions that resulted in losses. Obviously, the lack of scoring leading to close outcomes has to be considered.

[WhipperSnapper]

Yeah, not a baseball fan if you quit watching the game because your team relocates or you're team (ahem Blue Jays) has the league's lowest number of appearances in the ALDS since its inception in the early 1990s

You buy into the whole "buy Canadian" hyperbole or you do not. Doesn't mean their typically overpriced merchandise is produced in Canada. For baseball, support any team you like including the Nats.

[manny_santos]

I think it's more just that pretty much anyone across Canada can flip on Sportsnet and watch 90% of Jays games every year. Accessibility is the quickest route to fandom.

In Vancouver, there's a loyal, albeit relatively small Mariners fanbase. Throughout the 80s and 90s, all Mariners games were carried on basic cable by way of KSTW-TV 11 in Seattle, which had the rights to all Mariners games; many Jays games back then were on TSN, which was a Pay-TV channel for the better part of its first decade and then was on a premium cable tier, so anyone with basic cable only saw the weekend games from CBC or CTV. I would also not be at all surprised if BCTV pre-empted some of the CTV games, given their strained relationship with the network in the 90s and also their rights to the Canucks back then which at least would have taken priority during the NHL playoffs.

So it's very possible that historical TV availability of the Mariners over the Jays may have had an impact on the size of the Jays fanbase in BC. Having all Jays games on Sportsnet nationally, combined with KSTW losing the Mariners' rights to a cable channel not available in Canada nearly 20 years ago, has likely shifted loyalties among younger fans in BC, though the Jays aren't as big here as in Ontario.

Even today, the Jays are not always carried on Sportsnet 650 Radio here. That station prioritizes the NHL so they carry NHL playoff games (even if the Canucks aren't playing) instead of the Jays, and at least during the 2022 baseball season they prioritized the High-A Vancouver Canadians over the Jays. And starting this year they have the local rights to the Seattle Seahawks, so they've also prioritized the Seahawks over the Jays. Fortunately this is more of a moot point nowadays as the MLB now allows streaming of their games on radio, so I just stream 590 in Toronto in my car if AM 650 doesn't have the game.

On a side note, when I lived in Eastern Ontario a decade ago and had Cogeco Cable, Sportsnet was a premium channel and not available on basic, unlike Rogers areas and also Shaw in BC. That was a timeframe I really lost contact with the Jays, as (legal) streaming of sports didn't exist yet, and where I lived there was no local radio station carrying them - and of course the MLB didn't allow streaming of their games on radio back then so streaming 590 Toronto wasn't an option.

[harls]

I think it's more just that pretty much anyone across Canada can flip on Sportsnet and watch 90% of Jays games every year. Accessibility is the quickest route to fandom.

I listened to the entire 92 World series in a swather on AM radio.

[Coldrsx]

Gotta get those bats going.

Let's GO JAYS!

[thurmas]

Twinkies sweep Jays! Lets go upper midwest party like you just saved big money at Menards!

https://twitter.com/MLB/status/1709714986400911753?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Menards - Stain & Flooring (Ray Szmanda) [1996]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXD5_7cAYhs&list=PLtJJBkuEHFQgWbSXg1d1Eu30buR8-uNVB

[harls]

Twinkies sweep Jays! Lets go upper midwest party like you just saved big money at Menards!

https://twitter.com/MLB/status/1709714986400911753?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Menards - Stain & Flooring (Ray Szmanda) [1996]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXD5_7cAYhs&list=PLtJJBkuEHFQgWbSXg1d1Eu30buR8-uNVB

Menards. Sounds like the sound we anticipate once kicking a pirate in the balls.

[ScreamingViking]

Menard's will always be this to me:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YtLPRqNJGMKqqCWA7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZpNGGiM8At3grm4JA

Just down the street from where my grandparents used to live. But now it's River's Edge.

Oddly I don't think we ever went there when I was a kid in the 1970s and '80s, nor '90s when I was "legal" :shrug:

[MonctonRad]

Well, this was a short lived thread................. :haha:

[megadude]

I think the Jays are a lot like the Leafs. For both I said it's a mistake letting go of your GM -- Lou and Anthopoulos. Lou took over the Islanders and immediately over achieved with them. AA went to the Dogers and Braves and saw nothing but winning, including the WS with the Braves.

Anyway, like most sports, I just can't watch anymore due to all the stupid shit that happens and overthinking things. I will follow them and watch highlights, but when you pull your pitcher after 3 good innings because some nerd said in advance that's the right time to do it, I check out.

I really should have bet because for 3 out of the 4 series I picked the correct winner. The other one I didn't guess. Basically, any of these team in the WC could have won their series and I don't think many people thought of the Jays as a serious contender to win the WS.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Another short-lived Blue Jays playoff run, highlighted by another nonsensical pitcher change caused by following a game plan created by the analytics team without actually sensing how the game was flowing in a human sense.

Berrios was dealing, the twinkies didn't know what to do with him. He was pitching his best game of the season, with conviction. His stuff was great, he was on target, he was giving his team a chance to win. Then out of nowhere, they toss in Kikuchi, and it breathes new life into the twinks, and sucks the air out of the room for the Jays.

Not to say that they would have started hitting, but I really think that the mental aspect is important and once the twinks got a lead it seemed like Groundhog Day all over again. The data dudes don't seem to understand the human aspect of the game, and IMHO they have too much power, given that the manager is basically just following their instructions (by organization requirement), rather than actually managing the game by knowing his players and seeing what is happening on the field.

Sad, but it's not the first time, and as long as the game continues to blindly follow data, you're going to continue to see this sort of frustrating outcome.

Anyhow, lots of good baseball to be played. Now rooting for the Orioles and the Diamondbacks.

...And then see who on the Jays will be fired (hopefully GM Ross Atkins), and what the player moves will be in the offseason...

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think the Jays are a lot like the Leafs. For both I said it's a mistake letting go of your GM -- Lou and Anthopoulos. Lou took over the Islanders and immediately over achieved with them. AA went to the Dogers and Braves and saw nothing but winning, including the WS with the Braves.

Anyway, like most sports, I just can't watch anymore due to all the stupid shit that happens and overthinking things. I will follow them and watch highlights, but when you pull your pitcher after 3 good innings because some nerd said in advance that's the right time to do it, I check out.

I really should have bet because for 3 out of the 4 series I picked the correct winner. The other one I didn't guess. Basically, any of these team in the WC could have won their series and I don't think many people thought of the Jays as a serious contender to win the WS.

Well said. Shapiro ousting Alex and a bunch of other long-term dedicated Jays staff to replace them with his own minions was the beginning of the end.

A really frustrating watch. I prefer baseball that is managed by people instead of algorithms. Sigh...

[VANRIDERFAN]

Well, this was a short lived thread................. :haha:

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::cheers:

[Ozabald]

In Vancouver, there's a loyal, albeit relatively small Mariners fanbase. Throughout the 80s and 90s, all Mariners games were carried on basic cable by way of KSTW-TV 11 in Seattle, which had the rights to all Mariners games; many Jays games back then were on TSN, which was a Pay-TV channel for the better part of its first decade and then was on a premium cable tier, so anyone with basic cable only saw the weekend games from CBC or CTV. I would also not be at all surprised if BCTV pre-empted some of the CTV games, given their strained relationship with the network in the 90s and also their rights to the Canucks back then which at least would have taken priority during the NHL playoffs.

So it's very possible that historical TV availability of the Mariners over the Jays may have had an impact on the size of the Jays fanbase in BC. Having all Jays games on Sportsnet nationally, combined with KSTW losing the Mariners' rights to a cable channel not available in Canada nearly 20 years ago, has likely shifted loyalties among younger fans in BC, though the Jays aren't as big here as in Ontario.

Even today, the Jays are not always carried on Sportsnet 650 Radio here. That station prioritizes the NHL so they carry NHL playoff games (even if the Canucks aren't playing) instead of the Jays, and at least during the 2022 baseball season they prioritized the High-A Vancouver Canadians over the Jays. And starting this year they have the local rights to the Seattle Seahawks, so they've also prioritized the Seahawks over the Jays. Fortunately this is more of a moot point nowadays as the MLB now allows streaming of their games on radio, so I just stream 590 in Toronto in my car if AM 650 doesn't have the game.

On a side note, when I lived in Eastern Ontario a decade ago and had Cogeco Cable, Sportsnet was a premium channel and not available on basic, unlike Rogers areas and also Shaw in BC. That was a timeframe I really lost contact with the Jays, as (legal) streaming of sports didn't exist yet, and where I lived there was no local radio station carrying them - and of course the MLB didn't allow streaming of their games on radio back then so streaming 590 Toronto wasn't an option.

Plus in the 90's, the Mariners were rising as a team. And in Vancouver, you could catch Mariners games on the radio. If they weren't being broadcast on a Vancouver station, one could tune to Bellingham (think it was KPUG which carried the games) or Seattle (KIRO) radio. And the M's had awesome play-by-play with Dave "My-Oh-My" Niehaus!

[WhipperSnapper]

The exceptional fielding all season suggests it wasn't a lack of heart. They just couldn't overcome that barrier from struggling to hit.

The 2021 team that missed the playoffs by one game and the expanded playoffs by one season was the team to win the world series. They could score in bunches and the pitching and defense was coming together in the second half and after returning to Toronto

As for 2023, the Yankees were the favourites to win the East followed by Tampa at the start of the season.

[BlackDog204]

In Vancouver, there's a loyal, albeit relatively small Mariners fanbase. Throughout the 80s and 90s, all Mariners games were carried on basic cable by way of KSTW-TV 11 in Seattle, which had the rights to all Mariners games; many Jays games back then were on TSN, which was a Pay-TV channel for the better part of its first decade and then was on a premium cable tier, so anyone with basic cable only saw the weekend games from CBC or CTV. I would also not be at all surprised if BCTV pre-empted some of the CTV games, given their strained relationship with the network in the 90s and also their rights to the Canucks back then which at least would have taken priority during the NHL playoffs.

So it's very possible that historical TV availability of the Mariners over the Jays may have had an impact on the size of the Jays fanbase in BC. Having all Jays games on Sportsnet nationally, combined with KSTW losing the Mariners' rights to a cable channel not available in Canada nearly 20 years ago, has likely shifted loyalties among younger fans in BC, though the Jays aren't as big here as in Ontario.

My apologies, as I just discovered this post. I can provide insight about the popularity of the Blue Jays in the Seattle market. I am not sure about the 80s, but by the beginning of the 90's, the Blue Jays were clearly the #1 baseball team in Canada by far, and were far more popular that the Mariners in BC.

I distinctly recall how many Vancouver fans would cross the border when the Jays were playing in Seattle during the first half of the 90s. If one were to watch old tapes of Jays vs Mariners games at that time, people may get the impression that Toronto was the home team.

I distinctly recall a segment TSN showed on how popular the team was in BC. It got to the point that the local Seattle media was referring to the Mariner fans as "the minority," when the games were played at the old Kingdome. The games were well attended, and there were easily 20,000 people in attendance who were cheering for Toronto. I am not too sure when TSN became available on basic cable in Vancouver, but for the Winnipeg market it was 1989.

[craner]

I'm with you. I really haven't returned to baseball after the Expos got fucked over. I refuse to support a Toronto team just because I'm Canadian and I'm supposed to?

How did the Expos get fucked over ? (Serious question)

[MonctonRad]

How did the Expos get fucked over ? (Serious question)

Baseball strike during the year the Expos were poised to make a run for the World Series. It pissed off the fans, and the team never really recovered.

The strike, and the lack of atmosphere at the Big Owe did the team in.

[thurmas]

94 strike and the Loria ownership were the 2 main culprits of screwing the Expos over.

[harls]

I went to one of the last games at Olympic stadium back in 2004, the Phillies were in town and Youppi was still there.

Think the attendance was 6000.

[Bishop2047]

I went to one of the last games at Olympic stadium back in 2004, the Phillies were in town and Youppi was still there.

Think the attendance was 6000.

I went in the last season as well. I think I picked up the tickets for a toonie. Attendance was certainly under 10,000 on a weekend. That was when the Expos were functioning more or less as a farm team for the league with most decent players being sold off, or traded for pennies on the dollar.

[harls]

I went in the last season as well. I think I picked up the tickets for a toonie. Attendance was certainly under 10,000 on a weekend. That was when the Expos were functioning more or less as a farm team for the league with most decent players being sold off, or traded for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, it was pretty dismal.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1437/1396871319_f1f3fa33dd_o.jpg

It was a forum meet in MTL with a famous Philadelphia forumer. Not sure if he was impressed.

[WhipperSnapper]

Baseball strike during the year the Expos were poised to make a run for the World Series. It pissed off the fans, and the team never really recovered.

The strike, and the lack of atmosphere at the Big Owe did the team in.

Bad timing, a shitty stadium and, poor management. Not much of that has to do with MLB. MLB tried to keep the team in Montreal as a show of stability in part to the damage from the strike and several teams on the verge of folding.

MLB turning a blinds eye to steroid usage in the late 1990s led to the recovery Then they threw those players under a bus. Sosa, McGuire, Bonds, Clemons are the ones to be pissed although they can take solace in lighting stogies with Benjamins

[Acajack]

The Expos had a monster team with the best record in baseball in 1994 when the season was cancelled.

MLB was just coming off a Canadian team winning the World Series two years in a row (1992-1993) and so a lot of Expos fans felt the 1994 cancellation was deliberate to avoid having the World Series trophy outside of the US for the third year in a row. Not necessarily due to US national pride (though surely a factor I guess) but impacts on the sport's bottom line due to US advertisers and sponsors not getting their money's worth as our teams being there for the big show isn't great at all for US ratings and interest.

I actually don't attach much weight to these conspiracy theories as there were a bunch of other unrelated factors that explain more convincingly why the 1994 season was cancelled, but when your fanbase starts to think that the games and league are literally fixed to harm your team and prevent them from winning when they deserve it, you've lost most of them for good.

[Bishop2047]

The Expos had a monster team with the best record in baseball in 1994 when the season was cancelled.

MLB was just coming off a Canadian team winning the World Series two years in a row (1992-1993) and so a lot of Expos fans felt the 1994 cancellation was deliberate to avoid having the World Series trophy outside of the US for the third year in a row. Not necessarily due to US national pride (though surely a factor I guess) but impacts on the sport's bottom line due to US advertisers and sponsors not getting their money's worth as our teams being there for the big show isn't great at all for US ratings and interest.

I actually don't attach much weight to these conspiracy theories as there were a bunch of other unrelated factors that explain more convincingly why the 1994 season was cancelled, but when your fanbase starts to think that the games and league are literally fixed to harm your team and prevent them from winning when they deserve it, you've lost most of them for good.

I love the conspiracies as well, but the sad fact was that there were a lot of very visible reasons to assume the Expos were not meant to be. Even in that high point of 1994 attendance was well below NL average, and had been below average for years. Lack off attendance despite a winning team, poor value on advertising dollars, and not the most engaged ownership put the writing on the wall. The number for the last few years of Expos ball was just pitiful.

Attendance stats in the link below.
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/montattn.shtml

[WhipperSnapper]

That what bad timing means. The story has been told. No need to tell it again.

It's a good conspiracy. More fun than the new owner bailing on the team and a few short years later becoming a perennial 95 game loser. Winning supersedes trust. Reverse that into a perennial playoff contender in the late 90s/early 2000s. The 1994 strike becomes a distant memory. And, the team may still be in Montreal in a new stadium like the Minnesota Twins.

The conspiracy only holds water because it was the one and only year in which the odds were favourable for a World Series appearance. It's also forgotten that the Yankees winning percentage was just a smidge behind Montreals best record in baseball and we all know what that team accomplished. The conspiracy as with every conspiracy typically implies a championship.

[megadude]

I love that an old school manager won the WS. Actually, most the managers that got deep are old school and not into all that analytics shit. Analytics has a place, but shouldn't replace "feel" for the game.

Mind you, from time to time old school managers make dumb decisions, but I'd rather have a guy watch what kind of stuff his pitcher has than some algorithm manage the game.

Hopefully teams will learn to not rely so much on what computers say. Like I hope soccer teams move away from passing the ball backwards for half the game just to say they had long possession. Many, many games are won now with teams that had possession for 30 something percent because they played to try and score not just to pad their possession stats.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The Expos had a monster team with the best record in baseball in 1994 when the season was cancelled.

MLB was just coming off a Canadian team winning the World Series two years in a row (1992-1993) and so a lot of Expos fans felt the 1994 cancellation was deliberate to avoid having the World Series trophy outside of the US for the third year in a row. Not necessarily due to US national pride (though surely a factor I guess) but impacts on the sport's bottom line due to US advertisers and sponsors not getting their money's worth as our teams being there for the big show isn't great at all for US ratings and interest.

I actually don't attach much weight to these conspiracy theories as there were a bunch of other unrelated factors that explain more convincingly why the 1994 season was cancelled, but when your fanbase starts to think that the games and league are literally fixed to harm your team and prevent them from winning when they deserve it, you've lost most of them for good.

I recall hearing that the owner deliberately tanked the team after 1994 by trading off all the good players, in the interest of lowering the payroll to make it easier to sell off the team to a US buyer. Then the fans got ticked off when their World Series contender team could barely win a game.

Might be a chicken/egg argument for the attendance vs investment argument, though...

[Blitz]

I'm with you. I really haven't returned to baseball after the Expos got fucked over. I refuse to support a Toronto team just because I'm Canadian and I'm supposed to?

You're not 'supposed' to. The majority of baseball fans in Windsor hate the Blue Jays.