Happiness: it's not about the money, money, money

[Acajack]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebeckers-happier-than-the-rest-of-us/article4568446/

[SignalHillHiker]

The article doesn't mention if the actual difference between Quebec and the rest of Canada is significant, just that it exists. It could be quite small, even within the survey margin of error, based on the words they use and the high percentage of Canadians generally (92%, I believe) who reported being satisfied with their lives.

That said,the five happiest cities all being in Quebec is, I think, the strongest evidence that Quebeckers and Quebecois are happier. That's impressive.

[freeweed]

I find quite the contrast between Quebeckers self-identifying as happiest, and the common RoC perception that it's a province full of whiny complainers who are upset about everything (federalism, language, culture, tuition fees).

I think it speaks volumes towards the misunderstanding of what "happiness" really is for people.

[Acajack]

I find quite the contrast between Quebeckers self-identifying as happiest, and the common RoC perception that it's a province full of whiny complainers who are upset about everything (federalism, language, culture, tuition fees).

I think it speaks volumes towards the misunderstanding of what "happiness" really is for people.

Maybe it's just that people in Quebec are happiest when they complain? :haha:

[someone123]

Here's the original report: http://www.csls.ca/notes/Note2012-3.pdf

You've got to wonder about articles like that. It's full of speculation as to why Quebec is "happier" now but they chose not to include the original data. Unsurprisingly (if the data were interesting they would have included it), Quebec was within a fraction of a percentage of other provinces, and that difference is well within the margin of error of the poll. That is impressive. A tiny difference of dubious significance in one report somewhere was turned into an article about how Quebec is happy because it has "steadily become different from the rest of Canada".

[SignalHillHiker]

The report ranks the provinces as:

1. Nova Scotia: 94.1%
2. Quebec: 93.2%
3. Newfoundland and Labrador: 93%
4. Saskatchewan: 92.7%
5. New Brunswick: 92.6%
6. Northwest Territories: 92.2%
7. Prince Edward Island: 92.1%
8. Alberta: 92%
9. Manitoba: 91.6%
10. Yukon Territory: 91.2%
11. British Columbia: 91.1%
12. Ontario: 91.0%
13. Nunavut Territory: 90.6%

Nova Scotia beat us... Nnnnooo...

[Nouvellecosse]

If NS is the happiest, then why is the article about how happy Quebec is rather than how happy NS is? After all, we're 0.9 percentage points happier than them, while they're only 0.2 and 0.5 points happier than 3rd and 4th. ;)

[Boris2k7]

Money may not lead to happiness, but it sure takes some of the worries off of my mind.

[artvandelay]

m9I9Q2_ach8

[freeweed]

Money may not lead to happiness, but it sure takes some of the worries off of my mind.

Money may not always buy happiness, but poverty always buys misery.

[Wishblade]

Money may not always buy happiness, but poverty always buys misery.

Not true. I know people who actually prefer to live in poverty, and have heard of people who couldnt be happier and have actually made it a choice to be homeless.

[SignalHillHiker]

Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy the things that make you happy / Money can't buy happiness, but it sure takes the edge off being miserable.

I've read a couple of articles about studies over the years (expert, right here, luh, :haha: ), and most of them seemed to agree that there is a tremendous correlation between money and happiness up to the point of not having to worry about finances. Beyond that point (at the time I read the last article, it was about $70,000 per a single person), there is no added happiness benefit to more money.

[someone123]

Beyond that point (at the time I read the last article, it was about $70,000 per a single person), there is no added happiness benefit to more money.

This may be true but the average personal income in Canada is well below $70,000. The average income for all single mothers is just under $45,000 for example. The average annual income for "unattached" individuals not in a family of 2 or more is only $32,000. If money below that $70,000 per year threshold does buy more happiness in Canada then we could probably say that most Canadians would be happier with more money.

[freeweed]

Not true. I know people who actually prefer to live in poverty, and have heard of people who couldnt be happier and have actually made it a choice to be homeless.

Every single statement ever made can be shown to have an extreme counter-example (including probably this one), which renders most discussion pointless as people come up with more and more silly examples trying to "disprove" something. I'm pretty confident in saying that for 99.999% of the population, no one embraces homelessness.

Think about it - anyone with money can, at any time, choose to give it away. But no one without money can just choose to magically have some.

I ain't talking about modern "poverty line" poverty, which means a good roof over your head, clean clothes, television, heat, electricity, everything. I'm talking hopelessly dirt poor. I have never in my life met a single person who has come from *real* poverty, and gotten out of that, who sits around complaining that they wish they could eat out of a BFI bin again. While I'm sure if you scoured the continent you could find a few who would say that... that's pretty extreme.

[freeweed]

This may be true but the average individual income in Canada is well below $70,000. The average income for all single mothers is just under $45,000 for example. The average annual income for "unattached" individuals not in a family of 2 or more is only $32,000.

Yeah, which is why most people would gladly have a bit more money. But there's definitely a limit - I see this in Calgary every day, where the median individual income may not quite be $70k, but it's close. And in the places I work, pretty much everyone makes substantially more than that. These people aren't any happier just because their "war chest" has another hundred grand sitting in it doing nothing.

$140,000 family income in a DINK situation in Canada is just about the perfect amount of money to do almost anything you want, within reason. Never ever worrying about money is pretty damned cool for most people, and the rest is simply needless gravy.

[someone123]

I suspect the real relationship between money and happiness is a lot more complicated than the $70,000 line suggests.

For example, there's an important distinction to be made between having more money and making some kind of trade-off in your lifestyle to get more money. Most people are not independently wealthy. In a lot of cases if they have more money it is because they have chosen a career that pays better, often at the cost of working longer hours or having more responsibility and stress. It's not hard to imagine that these people don't necessarily end up much happier.

I don't think I'd be happier if I chose a job I hated that paid $100,000 more per year, at least until I quit and lived off my savings, but having a few million dollars in the bank would definitely open up some doors.

[SignalHillHiker]

Yes - and I imagine money and quality of lifestyle are less linked in certain areas.

[patm]

What counts as "happy"?

In my mind there is a difference between "I don't have it bad, I'm not complaining :)" and "My life is awesome". I personally know very few people whose life I would consider "awesome"

[MexiQuebecois]

My father always says: "Money can't buy happiness, but it sure as hell can rent it!"

[patm]

Money + Health + Time + Social Health = happiness.

:)

[freeweed]

In my mind there is a difference between "I don't have it bad, I'm not complaining :)" and "My life is awesome". I personally know very few people whose life I would consider "awesome"

Considering how much people seem to continually complain about everything in their lives.. I dunno. I've kinda come to the conclusion that my life is indeed "awesome". At least when compared against what other people seem to think about theirs. Especially after they have children (going through wave 3 of my various peers right now).

But yeah, from an outsider's perspective - no, I'm not 3-waying with Jessica Biel and Kate Beckinsdale every night. No, I don't own 5 yachts. I guess it's not "awesome" in that sense. :haha:

[Acajack]

The good old days are right now!

[patm]

lol its not even copious amounts of sex with the maxim top 100.

Awesome in my mind is a life that, more often than not, when you wake up you can literally do whatever you want. Thats an awesome life. This doesn't mean you have to be loaded. Just well-off and a mildly autonomous source of income.

I knew guy that ran a used car dealership and did most of his business on ebay and before the US economy tanked (he lived in Florida) he had what I would consider an awesome life. As long as he had his laptop with him, he could run his business with very little effort and that business brought in enough money to comfortably travel, live in a nice home and have nice things (nothing crazy though).

[harls]

I'm happy.

Everyone shut the fuck up.

[Stryker]

Happiness is knowing your gonna get what you want. People that have unrealistic expectations are gonna be miserable regardless.

Atleast thats the emotional side of it.

Happiness is also largely a product of a healthy life style.

People that, spend to much time in traffic, have to constantly worry about the housing market, have to move away from home, have to work unhealthy hours, feel the need to get into debt, live around vain people, etc make you unhappy.


The wage for happiness, is much lower Id say about 50 percent to 80 percent more than mininum wage.

A large part of the reason poor people are said to be miserable is the health, physical and mental that they face.


It amazes me how unaware people are of what it means to be happy.

[vid]

Money eases stress and makes happiness easier to attain, but it can also increase stress. You have to be smart with money to be able to save up enough to not have to worry about it. That means often going without material things. I have been able to live fairly comfortable over the past year with an income under $30,000.

I grew up poor and am used to going without so it is probably easier for me. A lot of people grew up in an environment where they could have anything so this kind of lifestyle would be culture shock to them. I still get surprised at how much I'm making when I get my paycheques sometimes.

[Aylmer]

I think that money CAN create comfort, but not necessarily if you have more of it. If from one day to the next, you go from an annual income of 3 million to $500 000, it'll create a lot of stress and unhappiness because your life and expectations aren't adjusted to $500 000 a year. But if you live on a steady $50 000 a year and your life and tastes are well-adjusted to that amount of money, you'll be comfortable and probably quite content.

But money itself is just one means to some ends. Money can buy you exciting things whose luxury makes you happy, but it's a bit of a death spiral - the more luxury you're used to, the more it takes to make you happy so the more you have to spend on luxury.
I personally try to make the little things make me happy: nice weather, good books, funny little inexplicable things you see on the street... It's not quite as big a rush as buying things at a store, but it's much more sustainable and makes you happier in the long run since I know that the growth of my income will never match the growth of my thirst for luxury.

Incidentally, I live in Quebec and am also very very happy with life.

[freeweed]

A few of you have touched on it nicely - it's all about expectations.

Everyone has similar base expectations - solid roof, warm meals, friends, some fun every day. That's about all we have in common. You can achieve that on very little income compared to the median. Some of us want a little more, but well within our budgets - and end up feeling pretty damned satisfied. A lot of people perpetually want more more MORE! no matter how much they have, and end up miserable most of the time. Personally, as I get "better off" in life, I'm realizing how needless so much of the material crap we have really is. I'm not quite living what you'd call a "minimalist" lifestyle, but I've gotten rid of more stuff in the past 5 years than I've purchased. It feels wonderful to not be shackled with the constant grind of acquiring "stuff". And I end up with a lot of leftover cash to do whatever the hell I want with.

But it's not just about money and material goods, far from it. I know far too many people who think they can have children and still have 8 hours of non-work activity every single day. That simply isn't possible, period - so they end up miserable as a result. They blame having kids, they blame their spouse, they blame society - yet the real problem is completely unrealistic expectations. I can think of dozens of other things like this: 20-somethings who want the suburban house for whatever reason, then complain that the bar is too far and transit doesn't run until 3am. Folks who get married, then complain about feeling "tied down". People who burn up half their vacation due to hangover or laziness, then complain that they can't get away in the winter when it's cold. People who move somewhere and then do nothing but whine about how it's different than home.

No one can have everything. No matter how rich. It's amazing how many people don't seem to ever figure that out.