Subway Station Spacing.

[chris123678]

I was thinking about the subway stops here In Philadelphia. Then the ones in New York.

I've noticed That New York's Station spacing is about 5- 10 blocks.
Philadelphia- 3-6.
I was thinking, how far should station spacing be?

Philadelphia Blocks are really long, that why it's closer.

[Illithid Dude]

In L.A., subway stations are about once a mile (except for DTLA, which is much closer).

[hammersklavier]

Philadelphia blocks are NOT really long. In fact, they're quite short.

On Market East stop spacing closes to 3 blocks, but elsewhere it falls around 5. This is because M.E. was the commercial center of the city when the Market Frankford Line (El) was originally built.

Also, didn't we have a thread on this exact same topic like a year ago?

[chris123678]

Philadelphia blocks are NOT really long. In fact, they're quite short.

On Market East stop spacing closes to 3 blocks, but elsewhere it falls around 5. This is because M.E. was the commercial center of the city when the Market Frankford Line (El) was originally built.

Also, didn't we have a thread on this exact same topic like a year ago?

There might have been a thread on this, but it wasn't created by me.


Philly Blocks are long considering. Our Blocks have 3 to 4 small streets built into them.

When i was In New York , i noticed the streets were quite short.

[volguus zildrohar]

Blocks in Manhattan are quite long E-W (~1/5 mile) and short N-S (~260 feet) whereas Philadelphia blocks are usually 400x400. Alley streets (Ludlow, Moravian, etc) don't count as blocks are considered hundred block to hundred block (Market to Chestnut, Chestnut to Walnut - Sansom is not the start of a new hundred).

Within Center City, where there is a higher concentration of destinations, the stops were spaced closer together as hammer mentioned. Outside of Center City, they're farther apart. Older systems tend to have much tighter spacing (the Paris Metro has some short station distances). Newer systems - DC Metro, BART - which were built as more regional systems have longer spacing.

[chris123678]

Blocks in Manhattan are quite long E-W (~1/5 mile) and short N-S (~260 feet) whereas Philadelphia blocks are usually 400x400. Alley streets (Ludlow, Moravian, etc) don't count as blocks are considered hundred block to hundred block (Market to Chestnut, Chestnut to Walnut - Sansom is not the start of a new hundred).

Within Center City, where there is a higher concentration of destinations, the stops were spaced closer together as hammer mentioned. Outside of Center City, they're farther apart. Older systems tend to have much tighter spacing (the Paris Metro has some short station distances). Newer systems - DC Metro, BART - which were built as more regional systems have longer spacing.

Thanks for the information. But In all honesty, is there really a need to have an 11th street and 13street? You can walk there.

[volguus zildrohar]

I'll agree with that to a point. Think of when the system was built - 11th & Market was the heart of downtown retail and 13th Street is the end of the trolley loop. Today, it's not practical to do away with either station though a two block gap does seem silly.

[tayser]

Studying the station spacing on the Melborune rail network is like looking back in time and the denser the stations the older the area when trains were the primary mode of transport.

In the older parts of the city which grew along the train lines about a century ago the average station spacing distance is 1km - which sort of fits with the basic notion that the maximum distance from a station people would generally "like" to walk from a station is 500m.

In the newer parts of the city: inter-war, post war (expansion really stopped in the 60s and only in the past decade has it been revived) stations are further apart - for instance between Dandenong and Hallam is 4km - the rail line has been there for a century, but the area is predominently industrial in between and sprawl further out and the older Dandenong in the other direction.

The new Melbourne Metro project will be pretty much back to the 1km spacing (As it goes through the oldest parts of the city and the areas which are seeing the most intense development).

Difference is the platforms are going to be 250m long to cater for 9 carriage trains - currently most platforms are 160-180m (max length 6 car).

[hammersklavier]

Thanks for the information. But In all honesty, is there really a need to have an 11th street and 13street? You can walk there.
In 1905 there was. 13th St. was the site of Wanamaker's, the city's flagship department store; 11th the Reading Terminal, a major rail hub, as well as the Reading Terminal Market and Snellenburg's, another major department store. Between 1920 and 1950 a second major department store, Frank and Seder, was added to the 11th St. hub.

Howsoever I agree that today 11th and 13th are a bit duplicative.

[Jonboy1983]

:previous: And isn't Suburban Station/15th Street/City Hall another 2 blocks west of 13th?

I believe the PATCO speed line has a few stations spaced a couple of blocks apart from one another also, don't they?

[emathias]

What use is a conversation about station spacing based on variable block lengths?

Do you want to talk about blocks, or station spacing? Because they don't really have that much to do with one another.

[chris123678]

:previous: And isn't Suburban Station/15th Street/City Hall another 2 blocks west of 13th?

I believe the PATCO speed line has a few stations spaced a couple of blocks apart from one another also, don't they?

The PATCO High speed line, stations are further apart.
It's a long line, 14.5 miles long and has about 12 stations. So they are really far.
It's somewhat like PATH that connects New York and Jersey.

And Yes, 15 ,13, and 11 are the closet on the El Line.
Then the next cl

[bobdreamz]

In L.A., subway stations are about once a mile (except for DTLA, which is much closer).

Same thing in Miami they are all about a mile apart except for the new Airport station which is about 3 miles to the next station.

[Nexis4Jersey]

The PATCO High speed line, stations are further apart.
It's a long line, 14.5 miles long and has about 12 stations. So they are really far.
It's somewhat like PATH that connects New York and Jersey.

And Yes, 15 ,13, and 11 are the closet on the El Line.
Then the next cl

The PATH is 14.2 miles long and has 13 stations , theres a gap between Harrison and JSQ thats over 4 miles long....

[volguus zildrohar]

The PATCO High speed line, stations are further apart.
It's a long line, 14.5 miles long and has about 12 stations. So they are really far.
It's somewhat like PATH that connects New York and Jersey.

And Yes, 15 ,13, and 11 are the closet on the El Line.
Then the next cl

PATCO stations in Center City and Camden are spaced as far apart as SEPTA subway stations - when the system was built, those stations were destinations. The outlying stations where riders are coming from are farther apart necessarily. The same follows with any other system - more stations where the destinations are and fewer farther out. Check the subways maps of DC, Boston or San Francisco.