SAN FRANCISCO | Golden State Warriors Arena

[OhioGuy]

Warriors to build new arena, move back to S.F. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/22/MNP41OK74T.DTL)

SFGate.com
Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross
Tuesday, May 22, 2012

The Golden State Warriors are jumping across the bay, with plans for a privately financed, $500 million waterfront arena that would allow the team to play its home games in San Francisco for the first time in more than four decades.

The NBA franchise would leave Oakland for a 17,000- to 19,000-seat arena that would be built on Piers 30-32 near the foot of the Bay Bridge, a short walk from downtown, and open in time for the 2017-18 season.

"It is going to happen - let there be no doubt," Warriors co-owner Joe Lacob said Monday.

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/05/21/ba-warriors22_PH_SFC0111089780.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/05/22/ba-Warriors_San__WRE0111181139.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/05/21/ed-edit22_warrio_SFC0111090014.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/05/21/ba-warriors22_PH_SFC0111090020.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/05/21/ed-mandr22_ph20_SFC0103648748.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/05/21/ba-m_r22_gr_SFCG1337659092.jpg

[Crawford]

How can you build an arena on top of a pier?

I mean, it could be done, but you would need a massively reinforced new pier, and you certainly couldn't do it for $500 million. A conventional urban arena on "dry land" costs upwards of a billion.

It would be very cool if it could be done, but I would guess this would cost bare minimum $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars when all is said and done. That's serious cash, but they're VC guys, so maybe they don't mind it.

The Barclays Center in Brooklyn costs a little over $1 billion, and has no radical engineering issues. The MSG renovation in Manhattan (which is really only a temporary stopgap until they eventually relocate) will cost nearly $1 billion.

[Xelebes]

How can you build an arena on top of a pier?

I mean, it could be done, but you would need a massively reinforced new pier, and you certainly couldn't do it for $500 million. A conventional urban arena on "dry land" costs upwards of a billion.

It would be very cool if it could be done, but I would guess this would cost bare minimum $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars when all is said and done. That's serious cash, but they're VC guys, so maybe they don't mind it.

The Barclays Center in Brooklyn costs a little over $1 billion, and has no radical engineering issues. The MSG renovation in Manhattan (which is really only a temporary stopgap until they eventually relocate) will cost nearly $1 billion.

Edmonton is building a top-of-the-line arena for less than 500 million. Our cost of labour is likely higher and spottier than in SF.

[Xelebes]

I moved the thread since the discussion has turned rather quickly to only the arena. You can link to a new thread about only the relocation of the Golden State Warriors in the Skybar.

[mt_climber13]

Our cost of labour is likely higher and spottier than in SF.

And what would make you say that?

[fishrose]

How can you build an arena on top of a pier?

I mean, it could be done, but you would need a massively reinforced new pier, and you certainly couldn't do it for $500 million. A conventional urban arena on "dry land" costs upwards of a billion.

It would be very cool if it could be done, but I would guess this would cost bare minimum $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars when all is said and done. That's serious cash, but they're VC guys, so maybe they don't mind it.

The Barclays Center in Brooklyn costs a little over $1 billion, and has no radical engineering issues. The MSG renovation in Manhattan (which is really only a temporary stopgap until they eventually relocate) will cost nearly $1 billion.

There have been several new arenas constructed within the last 10 years that cost FAR less than $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars.

[Xelebes]

And what would make you say that?

Edmonton has major trade shortages, most of it tied up in multi-billion dollar upgrader projects and work in Fort McMurray. Wages typically start 35 dollars an hour on these projects so they have quite the draw.

[spyguy]

A conventional basketball arena does not cost a billion dollars. Amway Center in Orlando is only two years old and was less than $500 million.

[NOPA]

I'm really excited this is happening! It helps take the sting out of the 49er's move, and a basketball arena is much better for the city in general because it opens up a number of entertainment options that the city didn't previously have (just imagine the Madonna concerts here!).

[Gordo]

Edmonton has major trade shortages, most of it tied up in multi-billion dollar upgrader projects and work in Fort McMurray. Wages typically start 35 dollars an hour on these projects so they have quite the draw.

Average construction labor in the Bay Area is probably quite a bit more than that for a project like this (in other words, not a project that can use undocumented labor). Being on state-owned port property they'll likely have to use all union labor, which could quickly rise to double that or more.

There have been several new arenas constructed within the last 10 years that cost FAR less than $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars.

None of those arenas were built on a 100 year old rotting pier in a seismic zone on the shore of one of the most expensive urban centers in the country though. They've still got multiple years of lawsuits to get through (an arena blocking some views of the Bay? Dozens will be filed, many by folks with very, VERY deep pockets).

All of that said, I like this idea and location - hope it happens. I'm just skeptical at this point.

[minesweeper]

Those renderings look much better than I expected. It’s a spectacular location for an arena. Still, even with the entire SF political machinery behind the project, it’s going to be an uphill battle to get all the approvals.

I imagine the Warriors will have to grease the wheels a bit to get their approvals. Tossing some money to affordable housing, public transportation, wetlands restoration, etc. will probably be necessary to get a project like this approved.

FYI, the Warriors have posted (http://www.nba.com/warriors/sf) ridiculously high resolution images of those drawings online (images are 25-40 MB each):

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/photos/SFArena_Rendering1_HiRes.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/photos/SFArena_Rendering2_HiRes.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/photos/SFArena_Rendering3_HiRes.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/photos/SFArena_Rendering4_HiRes.jpg

[Rail>Auto]

I love this concept and am glad the Warriors are moving back to SF and are picking a bay view location.

My only complaint is the renderings. The Warriors kept druming it up like it was going to be architecturally significant. Although it has a nice open glass view on the one side, this looks to be a basic arena that would be in the lower tier of the NBA if it weren't on the pier. I hope these are just basic outlines/ place holders for a better design.

Overall, great work. What will happen to Oracle Arena after 2017? Will the Warriors give up the territorial rights to Oakland if another team were to want to relocate there?

[OhioGuy]

What will happen to Oracle Arena after 2017? Will the Warriors give up the territorial rights to Oakland if another team were to want to relocate there?

Will another team be interested in relocating to Oakland, particularly when other sports franchises appear to be leaving? And if there are any available NBA teams, might they head up the coast to Seattle? Or maybe to the nice new arena in Kansas City? Inland Empire? I'm guessing the Warriors wouldn't be particularly interested in any Bay area competition either.

[OhioGuy]

Warriors face many hurdles in building S.F. arena (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/23/MNM41OLT8K.DTL)

SFGate.com
Heather Knight,John Coté
Wednesday, May 23, 2012

It's yet to be seen whether this particular production will be a feel-good story, as the Warriors and city officials pledge, or a heartbreaker like so many previous efforts to develop the 13-acre patch of crumbling concrete and pilings just south of the Bay Bridge.

Lack of money and frustrations with the politics of San Francisco have sunk at least five previous efforts, some with major players behind them like Oracle billionaire Larry Ellison, who backed out of a plan this year to build on the piers as part of the America's Cup sailing race deal.

The Port of San Francisco estimates the piers will be condemned in 10 years if not dramatically overhauled, but that's exactly what the Warriors have in mind to support their new stadium: a $75 million to $100 million repair job on the pilings supporting the piers and a brand new surface on top of it.

An iconic, high-tech arena, retail center, restaurants, parking garage and public park space is estimated to cost an additional $500 million - all to be privately financed except for the handover of the piers and an adjoining lot across the Embarcadero from the city to the team on long-term leases. The combined value of those properties - with Piers 30-32 in usable condition - was about $55 million, according to city officials. But in its current state, the piers have a negative value, they said.

Ellison's loss may prove beneficial to the Warriors because the team now has access to the Oracle co-founder's extensive engineering studies done on Piers 30-32, which were provided to the port, and to thousands of pages of public documents produced last year for the environmental impact review of the America's Cup regatta that include analyses of the piers' physical condition, animal species in the water and traffic issues. Guber and Warriors co-owner Joe Lacob say they're fully aware of the condition of the piers and will soon be putting out a bid to fix them.

[topota]

fantastic that this project would be done, maybe some Olympic games in the future could be in the city. :fireworks

[plinko]

Given the location, I'd like to see something a bit more iconic in the roof shape, but otherwise a great project in terms of infrastructure. They should have game day ferries as well from other piers and east bay locations.

...not that I actually believe that this will get built in the next 10 years...

[1977]

Given the location, I'd like to see something a bit more iconic in the roof shape, but otherwise a great project in terms of infrastructure. They should have game day ferries as well from other piers and east bay locations.

...not that I actually believe that this will get built in the next 10 years...

This is more of a massing study to show how it relates to the pier and the city in general. I don't think an architect has even been hired, so there should be a lot of changes in the coming years.

Also, I heard on the radio that a ferry dock will be part of the plan.

[peanut gallery]

^That's what I've read as well. These aren't real designs at all. Just some sketches to get the imagination going.

I'm with Gordo on all of this: very excited, but also very dubious. They have Coastal Commission, Bay Commission, Port of SF and city approvals to get through. Not to mention the residents of the area who are already voicing concerns about traffic, parking, views, access, etc. I think their timeline is a fantasy, but if they can tough it out through a laborious approval process, they might get there some day.

An arena would be a great adjunct to the convention center (for larger events). For example, Oracle would no longer need to run busses out to TI for their OpenWorld parties. Unfortunately for Oakland, the arena that bears that corporate name will suddenly find itself getting skipped for much more than just basketball games if this happens. Many of the acts that normally use it will shift those over to this arena instead.

As for building on piers, I've read that they need about $100M of work to be ready to build upon and the arena should cost about $500M on top of that. Not sure if it's mentioned above somewhere, but the Warriors are also after the parking lot across the street, which is currently zoned for residential. That would certainly help offset some of the cost for them.

[edsg25]

personally I'd rather have seen the 49ers build a stadium in the area (perhaps on the Giants' parking lots across the bridge, south of the ballpark....and send the Warriors to Santa Clara.

No team has ever been so attached to and so much about San Francisco as the oldest (by far) professional franchise in the west, the 49ers.

[1977]

Snohetta was chosen to design the new Warriors arena! I have high hopes for this one.


The Golden State Warriors have selected the fast-rising firm Snøhetta as design architect for the arena that the team seeks to open in 2017 on Piers 30-32, just south of the Bay Bridge. And, according to Snøhetta co-founder Craig Dykers, the two immense projects have more in common than meets the eye.
"There's an interesting set of connections between these two worlds of culture that hasn't been fully explored," Dykers said last week. "They share a similar need to attract people in such a way that they feel comfortable in various settings, from large groups to individuals."
Snøhetta will be paired with the San Francisco office of AECOM, an international firm with broad experience designing sports facilities. The firms were chosen independently and have yet to begin work on the arena project, which also includes 2.3 acres on the inland side of the Embarcadero. Dykers said he hopes an initial design will be ready for release within the next two months or so.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/place/article/Linking-2-worlds-of-culture-art-sports-3815659.php#ixzz24fYteGEH

[peanut gallery]

That is very promising! I like their work. In other news, the Port Commission has set-up a community advisory committee to ensure neighbors of the project are involved and heard. Hopefully, that will help keep everyone happy while keeping the project on track. Here's the website (http://www.sf-port.org/index.aspx?page=2111) if you want to keep abreast of the community-involvement process.

[easy as pie]

it'll be a tall order to compete with barclays center in brooklyn, but i'm pretty confident that we'll get an audacious design from the scandinavian team, which would go a long way to silencing the doubters. think of it: for a crew like snohetta, this is a career-making opportunity to create a globally-iconic building. sure, moma is huge, but this is something that could show up in elementary school textbooks in yemen if it's good enough. one can only assume that these folks will go to the styx and back to deliver an iconic design for us.

[SLO]

I love the project and it stretching activity along the embarcadero, and that location with a great design would be stunning. Cant wait to see it....

[peanut gallery]

...the Port Commission has set-up a community advisory committee to ensure neighbors of the project are involved and heard. Hopefully, that will help keep everyone happy while keeping the project on track.

Ugh, scratch that. I just read that Sue Hestor was at the first meeting. Forget about this being productive in any way and prepare for nonsensical lawsuits. I didn't see her name on the committee roster, but she was quoted in a Matier & Ross article.

[1977]

New specs and renderings were unveiled by Snohetta today:

http://www.nba.com/warriors/sf?venue

[easy as pie]

http://i.imgur.com/65b87.jpg

a few immediate thoughts:
1) hard to see the ferry stop, one would hope that it'd be better integrated or dropped completely, given that the ferry building is itself in such close proximity;
2) massing for the buildings on the opposite triangle are obviously designed to placate opposition from that quarter, and we already know that there'll be quite a large number of parking spaces there, pleasing neighbors immensely, even if it's all wrong;
3) the small building footprints and insane amount of plaza/public space are smart, very much what people want from the waterfront and greatly lessening the load the city backers will have to carry to push it forward;
4) the design is intelligent for this town: if it were super flamboyant, there'd be opposition on the basis of overly iconic and waterfront-changing grounds, if it weren't fairly spectacular, the movers would have trouble getting the plebs behind it. it strikes just the right balance.
5) finally, the white/gray theme is interesting in the context, not particularly consistent, it'd be interesting to see how this one pushes the waterfront forward (exploratorium and the cruise ship terminal were/are just depressing).

[Rail>Auto]

I don't have a problem with the area around the arena itself. I especially like the kayak and canoe loading area. But as far as the arena itself goes, that was a complete letdown. It looks like they tried to use a Cowboys Stadium futuristic design and ended up with the BOK Center in Tulsa. Would have liked to have seen something much better.

[fflint]

More renderings from sfgate's article (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/place/article/Warriors-arena-focus-on-bay-not-building-3951484.php#photo-3596045):

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/15/55/74/3596045/3/628x471.jpg

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/15/55/74/3596047/3/628x471.jpg

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/15/55/74/3596046/3/628x471.jpg

[ElDuderino]

I don't have a problem with the area around the arena itself. I especially like the kayak and canoe loading area. But as far as the arena itself goes, that was a complete letdown. It looks like they tried to use a Cowboys Stadium futuristic design and ended up with the BOK Center in Tulsa. Would have liked to have seen something much better.

While I like the design of the arena, that is not the final design. This round of design was mainly used for planning how the area will be laid out. Detailed design work for the arena is still to come. Read the full article for a more detailed description.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/place/article/Warriors-arena-focus-on-bay-not-building-3951484.php

[ElDuderino]

More details and better pics from WILLYGTO1 at SSC

The preliminary design concepts of the Warriors San Francisco venue were unveiled today in coordination with the official architect team of Snøhetta and AECOM.


Venue Footprint: 170,000 square feet

Venue Height: 135 feet. For reference, AT&T Park is 183 feet to the light standard, 132 feet to the top of the seating bowl

Venue Seating Capacity: 17,500. For reference, the capacity of Oracle Arena is 19,596

Venue Total Square Footage: (excluding practice facilities and meeting rooms): 740,000 square feet

Practice Courts: 21,000 square feet

Community Event Room: 10,000 square feet

Parking Spaces: approximately 630. Piers 30-32 currently parks 1,500 cars

Retail: 105,000 square feet

Open Space: 333,000 square feet

Open Space as Portion of Total Site Area: 333,000 square feet out of 548,500 square feet. The Warriors are committed to no less than 50 percent of the site being dedicated to open space

Maritime Uses: Ferry landing, fire boat/fire station facility (accommodating three fire boats), water taxi landing, kayak docking

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/preview_sfarena20121015_farout.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/preview_sfarena20121015_interior.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/preview_sfarena20121015_exterior.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/preview_sfarena20121015_topdown.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/preview_sfarena20121015_topdownlabelled.jpghttp://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/SFArena_TransitMap_425.jpg

[NYguy]

Fantastic location...


http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=6306

Unveiled> Golden State Warriors Arena
Snohetta and AECOM reveal conceptual scheme for dramatic waterfront facility in San Francisco



http://archpaper.com/uploads/snohetta_sanfran_04.jpg



http://archpaper.com/uploads/snohetta_sanfran_06.jpg

[tech12]

Apparently the Giants are now against this arena going in at piers 30-32. So lame:

Everybody loves the Giants. They won the World Series twice. They built the beautiful ballpark that jump-started SoMa. And they attract more than 3 million fans a year.

They aren't just a baseball team. They are civic leaders.

Now they need to start acting like it.

When the team began to snipe at plans to put a basketball arena for the Warriors on the vacant, run-down Piers 30-32, we chalked it up to off-season crankiness. But now it is clear the Giants are actively discouraging the project.

That's not what they are saying, of course. Team spokeswoman Staci Slaughter says we've got the wrong idea.

"The Giants support the building of an arena for the Warriors in San Francisco," she said in a statement. "It is important, however, that the facility and site be thoroughly studied and planned so the project can function properly for the neighborhood and the city as a whole."

Their position is that is took them years to find the right location for the ballpark. Now the Warriors are rushing the process through. But in the 1990s, when the Giants' facility was on the drawing board, there were several sites to choose from. Now those have been filled with development. There simply aren't that many spots for an arena that might take up 5 acres or more.

Giants suggest Pier 50
Asked where they'd suggest, the Giants floated the idea of Pier 50, which is south of the ballpark, away from downtown, and off the busy Embarcadero corridor. Safely, in other words, away from AT&T, which would still be the center of the SoMa universe. (Oh, and if the Giants get their waterfront village built on parking lot A, basketball fans would be funneled right through their commercial village to go to a Pier 50 arena.)

It is hard to believe the Giants can raise some of these objections with a straight face. When they were planning what is now AT&T Park, all the familiar concerns were raised: a downtown facility would be a traffic nightmare, neighborhoods would be ruined, and the noise and congestion would be intolerable. The Giants battled through those perceptions, built a jewel of a ballpark, and won nearly everyone over.

But now that they are established in the neighborhood, the Giants have suddenly gone NIMBY, using the same congestion/traffic/public transit arguments....

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevius/article/Giants-discouraging-waterfront-arena-4101136.php#ixzz2EUXxAg6h

[blackcat23]

Really don't like this design, although the location is incredible. Just looks like an amorphous metallic blob. Considering what a great view of the bay this would eprovide, I'd like to see the interior windows look more like the earlier rendering:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0522/nba_a_sfwaterfront_gb1_600.jpg

I hope they alter the hell out of this one.

[peanut gallery]

Snøhetta architect Craig Dykers discusses his design concepts for the new Warriors arena on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGKhofTGUhc&list=UUeYc_OjHs3QNxIjti2whKzg&index=1).

Not a lot of new info, but interesting to hear his thoughts on the architecture.

[aquablue]

Really don't like this design, although the location is incredible. Just looks like an amorphous metallic blob. Considering what a great view of the bay this would eprovide, I'd like to see the interior windows look more like the earlier rendering:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0522/nba_a_sfwaterfront_gb1_600.jpg

I hope they alter the hell out of this one.

That design looks very nice!

[JDRCRASH]

I was wondering when this would happen. And it looks like it might! :)

[timbad]

Snøhetta architect Craig Dykers discusses his design concepts for the new Warriors arena on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGKhofTGUhc&list=UUeYc_OjHs3QNxIjti2whKzg&index=1).

agh, it sounds like a lot of what he talks about is now having to be re-worked (http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2013/02/13/site-redesign-delaying-warriors-1-billion-arena-deal/)

[peanut gallery]

^Yeah, especially the views of the Bay Bridge from the south that they were trying to frame between the buildings. But I do like the idea of a back-up cruise ship terminal, which also could improve ferry docking as well. If it enables the approval from the Coastal Commission, it will be worth the delay.

[NOPA]

I liked the location of the arena so I hope the design still turns out great. But if moving it means we get more stakeholders on board then I guess that's what it takes.

I'm predicting this will be the NIMBY shitshow of the decade. They gotta come out with all guns blazing.

[biggerhigherfaster]

I liked the location of the arena so I hope the design still turns out great. But if moving it means we get more stakeholders on board then I guess that's what it takes.

I'm predicting this will be the NIMBY shitshow of the decade. They gotta come out with all guns blazing.

Meh, I'm a bit optimistic. There aren't that many "NIMBYs" in that area since it's fairly new. Lots of ppl who are new to SF and more traffic and commerce in the area would tend to raise property values. Plus, the arena doesn't really block views.

I do think that public transit and traffic in that area needs to be improved ASAP if they want an arena there. Embarcadero -> NBA arena -> MLB stadium -> 4th Caltrain station, along with tons of high rise and mid-rise condos along the way means a ton of traffic

[Rail>Auto]

So is this still the final plan for the design or is it still just a placeholder? I'm also curious when the Warriors will release interior photos of the court area.

[NOPA]

New group just launced to SUPPORT this epic arena. I think this could potentially be the NIMBY shitfit of the decade, and I intend to personally spend time to make sure this masterpiece gets built (and also end the long and annoying treks to the Oracle Arena and HP Pavillion for concerts).

http://sfappeal.com/2013/04/group-launches-campaign-in-support-of-waterfront-golden-state-warriors-arena/
http://www.warriorsonthewaterfront.com

[viewguysf]

make sure this masterpiece gets built (and also end the long and annoying treks to the Oracle Arena and HP Pavilion for concerts).

Yes--we really need a cool place for concerts in the City--an arena has definitely been missing from the scene and this could be one of the best!

[pizzaguy]

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/21/34/43/4573416/8/premium_article_headline.jpg

And - taking a cue from the archways fences at AT&T Park that let fans watch games for free from the outfield - the arena architects have yanked out 750 seats to add a 25-foot-wide glass curtain on the walkway that would allow people to peer inside during games, albeit probably with a limited view of the floor.

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/21/34/43/4573417/5/centerpiecewide.jpg

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Warriors-alter-waterfront-arena-design-4489012.php#ixzz2SQK5dYKc

[ardecila]

I love the cladding but I'm skeptical they can actually get that tiled look.

[1977]

I love the cladding but I'm skeptical they can actually get that tiled look.

I think it's possible. Here's another building (WTC Pavillion) by Snohetta:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32224170@N03/6662773759/lightbox/

I'm not saying it's exact, but it definitely looks possible.

[1977]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/sfarena-20130505-10-925.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/sfarena-20130505-9-925.jpg

More below:
http://www.nba.com/warriors/sf?venue#_

[viewguysf]

I'm totally drooling--it's super sexy--please let it happen!! :worship:

[mt_climber13]

Wow that is beautiful- Go SF!!

[patriotizzy]

It's a piece of art, public space, an arena, and a destination. LOVE the design.

[Rail>Auto]

I really don't like the outside design at all. Not only does it strike me as boring it also looks like AAA in Miami. With that being said, the location as well as the design feature that allows the fans to look in is tremendous and second to none. Can't wait to see it built.

[ByTheBay]

This just came to me, the current x pattern design of Oracle Arena kind of echoes the x pattern of the Bay Bridge. I think it would've been cool if they were to incorporate something like that in a contemporary way towards the new Warriors arena but that just might seem a little redundant. Nonetheless, I think the design of the new arena is a bit conservative, a location like this presents an opportunity to come up with something that should come close to rivaling the Sydney Opera House but that would require a lot of risk taking and that's asking a lot for an architecturally conservative city like San Francisco. I think the new renderings for the future Atlanta Falcons Stadium would be a good example, but I'm just glad the city is even embracing building an arena so i won't complain. Fortunately (or unfortunately) not a lot of arenas in the league have pushed the envelope so this one looks as nice as any other NBA arena right now, although I agree that it looks an awful lot like American Airlines Arena (in a similar setting as well) so that takes away a lot of originality points, but overall in context, it's a very good design and a great addition to the city.

[fimiak]

Incredible arena design. It looks like the NBA is stepping up and pushing for better arenas as the sport grows, after the Nets' masterpiece. AT&T Park is not going to be happy being upstaged so dramatically. To go from an ugly concrete parking lot to this arena that will serve the city is the most amazing transformation anybody could have hoped for for this location.

[rocketman_95046]

Incredible arena design. It looks like the NBA is stepping up and pushing for better arenas as the sport grows, after the Nets' masterpiece. AT&T Park is not going to be happy being upstaged so dramatically. To go from an ugly concrete parking lot to this arena that will serve the city is the most amazing transformation anybody could have hoped for for this location.

How is this "upstaging" AT&T? They are completely different venues and I think they will complement each other well. At the end of the day this will be a great NBA facility and AT&T will still be right there with PNC for the best ballpark in MLB.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/sfarena-20130505-2-925.jpg

[mt_climber13]

This is going to be more a concert/ entertainment venue than a basketball arena- Warriors plan on using it only 50 days out of the year with 200 days for other events.

[Gordo]

^Even 50 games implies a very deep playoff run each year (hope so, but you know :))

I think it will be pretty awesome if they can actually make use of it 200 days a year. That seems pretty aggressive - the Staples Center is usually listed as the arena used the most days of the year, usually around 250. But that's with two home NBA teams, a home WNBA team and a home NHL team.

Filling 150 days a year with concerts, etc is going to be pretty tough.

[MarshallKnight]

I think it's phenomenal. Futuristic without being gaudy (I love the Sydney Opera House, but it would be so easy to build a cheesy piece of crap in reaching for that kind of iconic design). The "portal" looking out onto the bridge is breathtaking and the public spaces are going to make it stand above most comparable arenas. Can't wait to take a ferry from the north bay directly to a game.

I'm curious about just how transparent the glass shell is intended to be. In several renders, it looks almost like it's shrouded in aluminum, but my gut tells me (and would prefer it if) it's going to be clearer than that. Between the glass and the Bay Light-style LED displays, this thing is going to look otherwordly, with people standing on starlit beams of glass.

Also, ByTheBay's notion of incorporating some version of the X-bracing found on Oracle and the Bay Bridge makes me think of the update of Pauley Pavillion on UCLA's campus -- they took the original inverted-pyramid exterior design (which also had X-braces coincidentally) and incorporated it into the interior of a new concourse. Love it when new and renovated buildings tip their hats to their predecessors. That kind of bracing doesn't really seem to be part of Snohetta's aesthetic, but I wouldn't object at all.

Anyway, I'm glad the developers have taken the community's input into consideration, rather than trying to stonewall the "NIMBYs" in the neighborhood. People do live and work there, and their concerns are genuine, so it's nice to see a real dialogue between parties. If this gets built (and the America's Cup Pavilion doesn't turn out terribly), this stretch of SOMA is going to be one of the premiere sporting and event destinations in the world.

[NYguy]

http://gossipy.co/sportsnews/new-golden-state-warriors-preliminary-arena-renderings-are-pretty-neat


http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1592507/2013-05-03-Warriors-Boards-2.jpg



http://urbaninitiativ3.com/updated-renderings-of-the-golden-state-warriors-new-sf-arena/

http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena0.jpg



http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena31-1024x536.jpg



http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena31.jpg



http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena11-1024x512.jpg



http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena11.jpg



http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena2.jpg

[minesweeper]

Governor Brown signed AB 1273 today (http://gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=18230), which authorizes the State Lands Commission to approve the arena project instead of the Bay Conservation and Development Commission, in an effort to streamline its approval.


Text of the Bill (http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_1251-1300/ab_1273_bill_20130916_enrolled.htm)
Legislative Analysis of the Bill (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_1251-1300/ab_1273_cfa_20130906_215159_asm_floor.html)

[easy as pie]

i could kiss the governor.

[applejacks]

It's good to see that the state is getting serious about this arena, especially with most of it being outside financed rather than raking over the tax payers.

On a side note, I noticed the people in the rendering seemed to be familiar. Not sure why they used Kendra in their rendering. Is that a normal practice, or just unprofessional?


http://urbaninitiativ3.com/updated-renderings-of-the-golden-state-warriors-new-sf-arena/:

http://urbaninitiativ3.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/050513_SFarena11.jpg

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/TCaZk69fm6G/Kendra+Wilkinson+Hank+Bankett+Take+Their+Son/PcIRLgkzU2u


http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/Kendra+Wilkinson+husband+Hank+Bankett+take+PcIRLgkzU2ul.jpg

[simms3_redux]

^^^Is that Kendra Wilkinson and Hank Baskett?

[OhioGuy]

8 Washington critics take aim at Warriors arena (http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/8-Washington-critics-take-aim-at-Warriors-arena-4962181.php)

When San Francisco voters resoundingly quashed a high-rise luxury condominium development set for the city's waterfront, they signaled their resistance to the Warriors basketball arena planned for a mile up the road, opponents of both projects say.

These opponents, led by former Mayor Art Agnos, on Wednesday used their election day momentum to call on Mayor Ed Lee to relocate the Warriors arena to Candlestick Point or the Caltrain Station at Fourth and Townsend streets.

The waterfront should be preserved for affordable housing for teachers, artists and others, Agnos said, and if Lee won't budge from what he calls his "legacy project," the same group that defeated the 8 Washington condos will sponsor a ballot measure to defeat the Warriors arena, too, he said.

Lee and the Warriors rejected any comparison between the two projects. The mayor said low voter turnout for an unremarkable ballot says very little about what would happen if the basketball arena were to wind up before voters someday. He added that basketball is a lot more popular and accessible than luxury condos.

"When it comes to the Warriors, I think there will be a lot more people saying, 'Hey, I like that idea,' " Lee said, pointing to the crowds that flock to AT&T Park and the Exploratorium, which are both on the waterfront.

Lee acknowledged that the arena is "no slam dunk, but maybe more like consistent three-pointers."

Arena measure will be on S.F. ballot, but when? (http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Arena-measure-will-be-on-S-F-ballot-but-when-4971344.php)

The question no longer is whether the Golden State Warriors' waterfront arena will go on the San Francisco ballot - but rather, when it will go on and which side will put it there.

"I think (the Warriors) probably have to," said Mayor Ed Lee. "I think they need to consider that, because everybody is going to want to have a voice."

Temperatures rose on both sides of the arena issue after voters' landslide rejection Tuesday of the 8 Washington condo complex along the waterfront. Leading the opponents, former Mayor Art Agnos zeroed in not just on the height of the proposed 18,000-seat arena at Piers 30-32, but on the 16-story condo project and luxury hotel the Warriors would build across the Embarcadero.

"We do not want height limits busted through," Agnos said. "We do not want this to be used by people with the biggest bank accounts."

The Warriors and their allies are confident that voters like the idea of the arena - but they also know the hotel and condos, which the team says it needs to pay for the deal, aren't nearly as popular.

The team's fear is that, rather than attack the arena directly, Agnos and Co. will go to the ballot first with proposals for new waterfront height limits, or affordable housing on the hotel and condo site, or maybe for a new waterfront master plan that would delay an arena for years or kill it altogether.

Figuring that they can't score when they're playing defense, the Warriors are considering their own ballot initiative. But when?

The next election is in June, and it's likely to have a relatively low turnout. As the Warriors saw with 8 Washington, low-turnout elections tend to have a proportionately higher number of cranky voters.

That would seem to point toward November 2014 as a better option for the team - a general election that will pull a better turnout. But if the Warriors wait until then, they risk having the Agnos forces swoop in with a June initiative.

Which could lead to a repeat of 8 Washington.

[tech12]

As long as people actually go out and vote, I'm not worried about the warriors arena getting killed. Polls have already shown that the majority of San Franciscans want the arena.

[JWS]

The waterfront should be preserved for affordable housing for teachers, artists and others, Agnos said, and if Lee won't budge from what he calls his "legacy project," the same group that defeated the 8 Washington condos will sponsor a ballot measure to defeat the Warriors arena, too, he said.

I had to stop and pause to make sure this wasn't an Onion style satire piece. This is unreal. I have to stop following SF development, as much as I love urban planning and architecture, we have to be the ONLY city in America that actively and aggressively fights world class projects like the Warriors Arena.

[tech12]

The waterfront should be preserved for affordable housing for teachers, artists and others, Agnos said, and if Lee won't budge from what he calls his "legacy project," the same group that defeated the 8 Washington condos will sponsor a ballot measure to defeat the Warriors arena, too, he said.

I had to stop and pause to make sure this wasn't an Onion style satire piece. This is unreal. I have to stop following SF development, as much as I love urban planning and architecture, we have to be the ONLY city in America that actively and aggressively fights world class projects like the Warriors Arena.

And its not even "the city" that fights these projects, but rather a minority of mostly wealthy NIMBYs who think they're entitled to manipulate the city for their own benefit, and who use fantasy scenarios (teachers, artists, affordable housing!), scare tactics, and lies to con others into backing them...because they know they'd get little support if they admitted it was about preserving their views and property values, and admitted that opposing development will actually make it harder for the poor/middle class to live here (it's great for property owners though!). And of course there's the other minority that simply thinks anything above 4 stories is ugly and bad, and/or think that we live in make-believe land, where literally every single new housing unit must be affordable, even when it's on prime, ultra-expensive waterfront land. And some people will also vote against what the city itself is backing, just because "the government is bad and corrupt".

Meanwhile, the majority of more reasonable city residents who are either supportive or ambivalent to increased development pay less attention to any of it to begin with, don't pay hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars on scary lie-filled propaganda/ballot measures, etc, don't vote, and then we all get stuck with the horrible result.

But, in regards to the Warriors arena, I think that in SF there are enough basketball fans and people who would like a new arena for things like concerts, that once the they hear some people are trying to kill said arena, they'll get off their asses for once and vote to save it.

[tommaso]

S.F. is the only city that has a basketball culture dating to Bill Russell's glorious 55 game win streak at U.S.F. Basketball is dear to San Franciscans.

[fflint]

The Warriors arena will go to the ballot box, and it will pass. There's no need to fret.

[JWS]

Heard something on 95.7 The Game this morning that a new edition/plan for the Warriors Arena is coming out today...anybody heard anything about this?

[ElDuderino]

Heard something on 95.7 The Game this morning that a new edition/plan for the Warriors Arena is coming out today...anybody heard anything about this?

Warriors' S.F. arena plan shrinks again
John Coté
Updated 9:36 am, Tuesday, November 12, 2013

It's lower, slimmer and greener - and still facing a fight.

As opponents vow to put the Golden State Warriors' plans for an 18,000-seat waterfront arena in San Francisco on the ballot, the team has put its design on a diet.

The changes, which have been in the works for months, include lopping 15 feet off the edge of the roofline, increasing the amount of public open space and lowering the public plazas to create a gradual slope of greenery that the NBA team likens to a smaller version of Dolores Park on the water....

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3148/vnq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/vnq8.jpg/)
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6416/c0oj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/c0oj.jpg/)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/953/7x8g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/7x8g.jpg/)


Full article: http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-S-F-arena-plan-shrinks-again-4976182.php#photo-5450488
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[minesweeper]

Giant renderings linked below:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/sf-20131112-aerial.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/sf-20131112-lookingsouth.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/warriors/images/sf-20131112-overgreen.jpg

Here's the press release: http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/20131112/sf

[1977]

More renderings from Socketsite. I really love this design - It needs to happen!

http://www.socketsite.com/Warriors%20SF%20Arena%203.0%201.jpg

http://www.socketsite.com/Warriors%20SF%20Arena%203.0%203.jpg

http://www.socketsite.com/Warriors%20SF%20Arena%203.0%204.jpg

http://www.socketsite.com/Warriors%20SF%20Arena%203.0%202.jpg

Source: http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2013/11/previously_unreleased_round_of_renderings_for_warriors.html
NBA presentation: http://www.nba.com/warriors/sf?venue

[tommaso]

Basketball is the Bay's greatest inspiration for architecture! Look what we're creating here on our waterfront!!:)

[mdsayh1]

This is such an inspiring and avant garde project. I'm very worried it will run into trouble in the box office. Political marketing is so good at confusing t]voters who show up to vote but don't research what they are casting a vote on.

[Enigmatism415]

This is such an inspiring and avant garde project. I'm very worried it will run into trouble in the box office. Political marketing is so good at confusing t]voters who show up to vote but don't research what they are casting a vote on.

We just have to band together and publicly promote this project even more strongly.

[theskythelimit]

We just have to band together and publicly promote this project even more strongly.


This is my thought also, if the NIMBYs can band together, so can the Pro development groups. It is not good to be complacent when it comes to voting. Everyone should exercise their right.

[JG573]

I can not understand how people could oppose such a project it blows my mind. I found the anti-warriors arena Facebook plus website and it is painful.

[timbad]

not sure this is the place for this, but...

another little wrinkle in the height-limit ballot saga: may be illegal (http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/State-wades-into-S-F-waterfront-height-limit-5140503.php) to wrest authority from the city and let local voters decide in these waterfront cases.

reasoning: the City is supposed to make decisions over the waterfront on behalf of the entire state, because the latter entity ultimately holds such lands in public trust. the local population does not get sole say.

if I get their counter-argument, the measure proponents say that the local population would be carrying out the public trust protection duty themselves, so still legal.

another angle on the argument against: you can't take away power from the BoS (which the measure would do) without amending the City charter.

[peanut gallery]

^I hope those interpretations turn out to be correct because I fear this project dies if that ballot measure is approved. It won't kill it directly, but it will mean this has to be approved at the polls, and I don't think that ends well for the Warriors.

[tech12]

^I hope those interpretations turn out to be correct because I fear this project dies if that ballot measure is approved. It won't kill it directly, but it will mean this has to be approved at the polls, and I don't think that ends well for the Warriors.

I dunno. Multiple recent polls show that over 60% of SF residents are in favor of the arena getting built at pier 30/32. Of course there's still plenty of time for the NIMBY propaganda machine to go into overdrive and suck more supporters in, and there's the problem of most people not bothering to vote in SF (while the NIMBYs always vote)...but then there's also the whole thing about local voters restricting height limits on public/state waterfront land being potentially illegal--and again, over 60% of the city does support it as is. So I think there's a decent chance it will be built.

But maybe the Warriors will find a good spot in Oakland and end up building a new arena there instead of dealing with all this crap in SF. And now I'm having deja-vu...I swear i had a dream years ago where that exact thing happened. :uhh:

[biggerhigherfaster]

I dunno. Multiple recent polls show that over 60% of SF residents are in favor of the arena getting built at pier 30/32. Of course there's still plenty of time for the NIMBY propaganda machine to go into overdrive and suck more supporters in, and there's the problem of most people not bothering to vote in SF (while the NIMBYs always vote)...but then there's also the whole thing about local voters restricting height limits on public/state waterfront land being potentially illegal--and again, over 60% of the city does support it as is. So I think there's a decent chance it will be built.

But maybe the Warriors will find a good spot in Oakland and end up building a new arena there instead of dealing with all this crap in SF. And now I'm having deja-vu...I swear i had a dream years ago where that exact thing happened. :uhh:

I don't think the polling is indicative of how a ballot measure would turn out. The waterfront project near Embarcadero probably had majority support if you took a poll of SF residents, but lost by a margin when people were asked to affirmatively vote on the issue.

The problem is while most ppl think these projects are generally desirable, only a small % of them actually care enough to come out and vote. The attitude is one of "good if it happens, but doesn't really affect me if it doesn't, so why bother voting." By comparison, a much larger % of those who oppose projects feel strongly enough to go out of their way to vote down the project. The attitude here is "sucks for me if it happens, so it I will vote it down for sure."

[tech12]

I don't think the polling is indicative of how a ballot measure would turn out. The waterfront project near Embarcadero probably had majority support if you took a poll of SF residents, but lost by a margin when people were asked to affirmatively vote on the issue.

The problem is while most ppl think these projects are generally desirable, only a small % of them actually care enough to come out and vote. The attitude is one of "good if it happens, but doesn't really affect me if it doesn't, so why bother voting." By comparison, a much larger % of those who oppose projects feel strongly enough to go out of their way to vote down the project. The attitude here is "sucks for me if it happens, so it I will vote it down for sure."

I'm still thinking the Warriors arena and it's opposition may be high profile enough to get enough people to actually vote for it though. AT&T park had tons of opposition too, and for all the same reasons, yet it ended up passing.

[homebucket]

"The cost to rebuild two linked piers has risen dramatically since the Golden State Warriors announced the team wanted to build an 18,000-seat waterfront arena in San Francisco, and the franchise will likely miss its target fall 2017 opening date.

Team officials have not publicly conceded that the arena won't be ready for the start of the 2017 NBA season but acknowledge the projected cost just to fix the crumbling piers, currently used as a parking lot with magnificent views of the Bay Bridge, is now $180 million. That's roughly double the original figure the team estimated when it announced in May 2012 that it wanted to move from Oakland.

The new figure represents just the cost to make the 13-acre site suitable for an arena complex that would include stores, restaurants, a practice facility and a parking garage with terraced public plazas and greenery covering much of the structure. The $180 million figure is $10 million more than the previous high projection from last summer and comes after months of design work and outside review of costs for rebuilding Piers 30-32.

Team officials say they remain committed to the site and the higher price won't mean more public money going into the $1 billion project."

http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Pier-fix-at-Warriors-S-F-arena-site-double-5191031.php

...

Uh oh. Also, just curious, are SFGate commentators representative of the majority of San Franciscans? Because it seems like most of them oppose the arena.

[tech12]

Also, just curious, are SFGate commentators representative of the majority of San Franciscans? Because it seems like most of them oppose the arena.

No, not really. Like any news site comments section, it tends to mostly be whiners, people with too much time on their hands, crazy people, idiots, etc making the comments. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of conservative types who gravitate towards SFgate as well, just to see what "crazy SF" is up to, and to talk shit. And of course NIMBYs come out in force in comments sections too, because people are always more ready to complain about something than to praise it. A lot of San Franciscans outright dismiss the chronicle as garbage. It's basically a glorified tabloid at this point, with some snippets of news which is in large part just copy-pasted from the AP...often for local stories even :haha:

Mutiple recent polls say that about 60% of SF residents are in favor of the new arena, so the comments really aren't representative of SF as a whole.

[JWS]

Uh oh. Also, just curious, are SFGate commentators representative of the majority of San Franciscans? Because it seems like most of them oppose the arena.

Well, they represent the majority opinion of a large segment of San Franciscans, yes. Most of whom live nowhere near the proposed development, yet view San Francisco as a quaint little fishing village that needs to be preserved.

I actually do understand and to some degree empathize with the shift San Francisco has made, and that many moved here for countercultural reasons and thus view the "Manhattanization" (a term I find tremendously foolish, by the way) of the city as a threat to their existence and lifestyles. Not to mention that even though they are rent controlled, the cost of living has skyrocketed to an unreasonable point for everybody (including people making six figures), and they see this as further proof that the soul is being sucked from their city (regardless of the fact that it was their own anti-growth ballots and movements that partially put those rents where they are). So while their mobilization makes me almost nauseous because of the sheer denial, fear mongering, and lunacy, I do understand where it is coming from and empathize with their frustrations and fears.

However, Summer of Love/Gay Rights Movement/90s stagnancy aside, we have to logically face where the city is now. Despite the movements that brought them to the city, nobody would look at these facts on paper and view San Francisco as some small little town that is anti-density, business, and growth:

- One of only five American cities to be designated as a Global Alpha City (the other four being NYC, Chicago, LA, and Washigton DC).
- Second highest population density in America (although I understand we aren't even at Bronx levels)
- Top 5 in the country for highrises above 35 meters (and per capita, we're #2 behind NYC), Top 5 in the country for buildings above 100m, #6 in the country for buildings above 150m. If you adjust the second two for per capita, we would rank higher once again but I haven't run them specifically to see where we are.
- Sixth most visited city in the US for tourism, 44th in the world.
- The hub for a region that boasts the headquarters of Wells Fargo, Visa, Facebook, Google, Apple, Oracle, Gap, Levi's, a federal reserve branch, Chevron, and which founded Bank of America. And those are just some of the heavy hitters.
- Center of a metropolitan region that, by some measurements, is over 8M people large.
- Culturally, one of the few American cities that can boast world class ballet/opera/symphony, all of the "big 4" sports teams regionally, 20+ Michelin starred restaurants, a park bigger than Central Park, a full roster of world class museums, dozens of internationally renowned landmarks from Alcatraz to the Golden Gate to Lombard to the cable cars, the list goes on.

The fact is that this little fishing village of 820,000 casts a very long shadow, not just domestically, but internationally. That is the reality.

So when you see these people fighting tooth and nail to keep the city the way they envision it, I respect where they are coming from, but their vision of the city is ideologically skewed and nowhere represents the reality. The issue is that the way the political system is set-up heavily caters to this demographic, which then produces policies and procedures that cater to the counter-cultural, anti corporate, fishing village full of quaint bakeries and 3-story buildings that doesn't actually even exist, and ignores the growing and increasingly international/powerful city that does exist.

They are protesting tech and finance as if this is new...the Bay Area has been the tech hub and the "Wall Street of the West" for DECADES.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of lunacy, greed, and ridiculousness on the development side, but I am continually exhausted by people who vote based on ideology, not reality. I am not even in tech, but would love to see those companies mobilize their employees to vote pro-development for both candidates and ballot measures, because that is the only way I can see the tide turning against the extremely well mobilize anti-growth group. Ed Lee may not be perfect, but with the class-war brewing in SF, you can bet the next mayor will be anti-development and "progressive" in the regressive SF definition of the word, so this is the window.

[/End Rant].

[tech12]

^well said!

It's frustrating how people tend to see what they want to see, rather than see what the reality is. It helps us to unwittingly and constantly do things that are against our own best interests. Human beings :shrug:

[Gordo]

From the very beginning I was pretty baffled at the low estimates that the Warriors had for the pier reconstruction. Not surprised that they've now raised them, and I hope that it doesn't seriously endanger the plans.

[timbad]

just to get these on here, 2 socketsite blurbs:

- Warriors officially declare delay at least until 2018 season (http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2014/02/warriors_forfeit_plans_for_move_to_san_francisco_in_201.html)

- supporters of measure to put heights along waterfront to the voters delivered many more signatures than needed (http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2014/02/sponsors_of_measure_to_limit_building_heights_deliver_2.html) to get it on the ballot

[simms3_redux]

I wonder if the ballot measure should be more of a general discussion because doesn't it potentially affect development anywhere in the city? Or is it just along their very loose definition of "waterfront"?

[theskythelimit]

I wonder if the ballot measure should be more of a general discussion because doesn't it potentially affect development anywhere in the city? Or is it just along their very loose definition of "waterfront"?

This proposed ballot measure specifically targets the Waterfront and does not affect the interior development. There are plenty of regulations already In place for development projects.

[OhioGuy]

Warriors, Giants open to teaming up on arena near AT&T Park (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Warriors-Giants-open-to-teaming-up-on-arena-near-5282867.php#photo-5429146)

An increasingly hostile political climate, coupled with the prospect of rocketing costs and a drawn-out permit fight, has rekindled prospects of the Warriors trying to team up with the Giants to shift the site for their proposed waterfront arena down to the parking lot across from AT&T Park.

Although the two teams have not had direct talks, both sides are said to be open to discussing the idea.

Although the Giants' Parking Lot A across McCovey Cove from the ballpark lacks the breathtaking dazzle of Piers 30-32, building a 17,000-seat arena there would still boost the Warriors' overall value. It would also be a sufficiently central location for hosting the 150 events a year, in addition to basketball games, that would be needed to make the arena financially viable.

Taking the arena off Piers 30-32 - and out of what is fast becoming one of the city's toniest neighborhoods - could also cut down on objections from nearby residents, plus ease concerns about traffic along the Embarcadero.

In other words, from the Warriors' perspective, it would get the job done in our lifetime and would still put them on the waterfront.

One big reason for the possible southward shift is the emergence of a June ballot measure that would require voter approval for all waterfront developments taller than the current 48-foot limit. The Warriors intend to build condos and a hotel across from the Piers 30-32 site to help pay for the arena, but a couple of polls in recent weeks show they could be a deal-killer with voters.

Those extras might not be needed if the arena were built on the Giants' parking lot instead of Piers 30-32, where the estimated rehabbing cost has doubled to $180 million.

[peanut gallery]

I don't think moving to Mission Rock will help overcome the ballot measure. It will still be on the waterfront and still be taller than 48' and thus still subject to voter approval. Frankly, I think that ballot measure (assuming it passes) will eventually kill the Giants' whole plan for Mission Rock -- with or without the Warriors -- as most of it is supposed to be taller than 48'.

Sorry to be a downer, but I just don't see anything getting approved at the ballot once that goes into effect.

[JWS]

Will NEVER happen across from AT&T Park. I have said since Day 1 that the NIMBY's who are saying, "Put it in Mission Bay!", "Put it in Civic Center!" etc are just blowing smoke. The second it gets formally proposed for those sites, they will be just as vicious, if not more so.

It would be infuriating if it wasn't so expected. An iconic structure for SF will not get built out of fear mongering, class warfare, and a "I have mine, forget yours" mentality.

[viewguysf]

An iconic structure for SF will not get built out of fear mongering, class warfare, and a "I have mine, forget yours" mentality.

Wow, I think you're out of touch with a large segment of society here! While what you said could apply to some other projects (notably the Mexican Museum tower fight), I find that it's middle class renters who oppose highrises along the waterfront and often other development in general. I personally couldn't get any of my long time friends to vote against Prop M last fall. More than any place, the waterfront is considered sacred territory and it will never be developed with more highrises any time in the foreseeable future. I could see a successful exception for a new Warriors arena at Mission Rock, but not for the taller buildings the Giants are proposing. You can thank the lingering affects of the Fontana for that, as well as not wanting to look like Miami, Rio, or other cities with waterfront towers.

[mt_climber13]

A similar thing is happening here in Sacramento with the new Kings arena downtown. NIMBYs tried to get it on the ballot for this June and it was blocked. I'm not sure why as I haven't been following too closely. You hear he same arguments here as in SF about traffic, too much density, et al. Anyway demolition is set for June. I hope SF can have as good of luck.

Why couldn't the Warriors just buy one of the Transbay blocks or any other lot with high density to help finance the arena, instead of having to develop the lot across the street?

[Rail>Auto]

If you angled it right, a new arena across the cove from AT&T Park could still look off the bay and even have the bridge in the background. One thing I would like to see changed if the site changes is a new exterior design. The current proposal is flat out boring. The outside is a carbon copy of American Airline Arena while the inside is a carbon copy of Sacramento's new arena. Surely, with a project like this the Warriors can do much better.

Have they thought about Pier 50 again?

[ozone]

OK so what are the other options for a new arena in San Francisco? I think there's several. What about Pier 70? Or somewhere in the Candlestick/Hunters Point area? Treasure Island?

[theskythelimit]

OK so what are the other options for a new arena in San Francisco? I think there's several. What about Pier 70? Or somewhere in the Candlestick/Hunters Point area? Treasure Island?

I don't think there are too many other options. One thing to remember is this arena is not only for basketball but for conventions and other events. So, they need to be relatively near Hotels and good transportation. Candlestick would not fit this criteria and TI has issues with solid contamination, settling issues and virtually no transport. Pier 70 is already spoken for development.

[Folks3000]

I will never understand the issue with this arena. It is within walking distance of a Muni light rail route, the future Central Subway, Caltrain, BART, the future Transbay Terminal with buses to everywhere, the SF Ferry Building with ferries to everywhere else. It has better transportation that 90% of stadiums in the US (especially the new one in South Bay), and yet all I hear are these arguments about traffic. I mean, if the traffic does turn out to be that bad (which I kind of doubt) it will just give an incentive for people not to drive to the stadium the next time. They certainly have a multitude of options most cities would kill for. Do all the people who live around the area drive cars? If I lived in South Beach I certainly wouldn't care about "my" roads getting congested because I'd probably never drive on them anyways. Downtown SF is the focal point of the SF Bay Area, it will be congested with traffic stadium or no stadium, so wouldn't it be better to have an awesome sports and concert venue than a decaying pier?

[viewguysf]

I will never understand the issue with this arena. It is within walking distance of a Muni light rail route, the future Central Subway, Caltrain, BART, the future Transbay Terminal with buses to everywhere, the SF Ferry Building with ferries to everywhere else. It has better transportation that 90% of stadiums in the US (especially the new one in South Bay), and yet all I hear are these arguments about traffic. I mean, if the traffic does turn out to be that bad (which I kind of doubt) it will just give an incentive for people not to drive to the stadium the next time. They certainly have a multitude of options most cities would kill for. Do all the people who live around the area drive cars? If I lived in South Beach I certainly wouldn't care about "my" roads getting congested because I'd probably never drive on them anyways. Downtown SF is the focal point of the SF Bay Area, it will be congested with traffic stadium or no stadium, so wouldn't it be better to have an awesome sports and concert venue than a decaying pier?

I think so! "They" made the same argument about Pac Bell Park in the day and it has been nothing but beneficial for the neighborhood, the City, and the entire Bay Area. :tup: