Campaign for Atlanta Transportation Referendum Kicks Off

[M II A II R II K]

Transportation referendum campaign starts


April 3, 2012

By Ariel Hart

http://media.ajc.com.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/images/ajc-logo.gif

Read More: http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/transportation-referendum-campaign-starts-1406224.html

The full campaign kicks off Wednesday for one of the most important votes in metro Atlanta’s history. It’s going to be a long fight. The 10-county referendum for a 1 percent sales tax for transportation takes place July 31. Bolstered by better fundraising than they expected, advocates plan to blanket the metro area with four months of advertisements. The campaign for the referendum, organized by business and civic groups such as the Metro Atlanta Chamber, is divided into two parts. “Education” advertisements already started two weeks ago. “Advocacy” advertisements, a much bigger portion of the privately funded campaign, will start airing Wednesday, according to campaign officials.

- Bob Ross, an opponent in Fayette County, said the ad addresses exactly the most important issue, roads -- but has no right to do so when slightly less than half of the referendum's project list is composed of roads. Just more than half goes to mass transit. “I agree we’ve got a traffic problem,” said Ross, who, like many of the opponents, is a tea party member. “My concern is over half the money is coming from what’s pitched as a solution, but has very little impact on road congestion.” Backers of the referendum say the transit will get drivers off the roads, and offer everyone more choices. Paul Bennecke, a head strategist for the campaign, said the ad speaks to all voters. “I think it certainly gets the visual image of what people are dealing with every day; they feel like they’re in a knot,” Bennecke said. “I feel, at the end of the day, we have an issue that has nearly unanimous consent. We have a traffic crisis. The issue becomes, do we want to solve it or not?”

- In the referendum, for the first time in Atlanta’s history, voters from across the region will vote together as one district. They will decide whether to approve a 1 percent sales tax across 10 counties, to fund a list of transportation projects in those counties. The regional list totals $6.14 billion. In addition, about $1 billion will be sent back to the counties and towns where it was raised, based on the amount of people and lane miles in each. Bennecke expects the campaign to spend about $8 million, most of it on advocacy. Donations to the education campaign are tax-exempt, but donations to the advocacy campaign are not. The campaign structure has drawn some fire from critics who see little distinction between advocacy and the education campaign, which touts the referendum as "one possible solution."

.....




http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/01352/refrockdale_0525_0_1352897c.jpg

[tdawg]

I hope this passes. Atlanta, once the southern model of public transportation (MARTA trains have been running for over 30 years), is falling behind it's neighbors.

[atlwarrior]

Yes this really need to pass, Marta is operating on 1980's infrastruce, Atlanta is approaching 6 million people in the metropolitian area, its time that a rail system match that growth. If not surburban Atlanta will suffocate in there own political backwardness, and nonprogressivity. However central Atlanta, and communties along the beltline project will thrive, as people exit the surburbs because of traffic problems.

[atlwarrior]

I hope this passes. Atlanta, once the southern model of public transportation (MARTA trains have been running for over 30 years), is falling behind it's neighbors.

You are so right

[tdawg]

this isn't really relevant to the TSPLOST but when I was in Austin, TX last Fall, for the first time, it really reminded me of Atlanta in the 90s, which is when I lived there. Friendly, booming, just a great hopeful vibe about the future.

[TarHeelJ]

I hope this passes. Atlanta, once the southern model of public transportation (MARTA trains have been running for over 30 years), is falling behind it's neighbors.

I agree with the hope that this passes, but exactly which neighbors is Atlanta falling behind? There isn't one transit system that I can think of that is anywhere near the size and scope of MARTA, so I don't think there is any danger of those systems ever moving ahead of MARTA.

[min-chi-cbus]

this isn't really relevant to the TSPLOST but when I was in Austin, TX last Fall, for the first time, it really reminded me of Atlanta in the 90s, which is when I lived there. Friendly, booming, just a great hopeful vibe about the future.

I'm not sure native Austinites feel that way about Austin today....the ones I know are pissed about the growth and popularity and can see the crap that is (or is destined) to come with it.

[ardecila]

I agree with the hope that this passes, but exactly which neighbors is Atlanta falling behind? There isn't one transit system that I can think of that is anywhere near the size and scope of MARTA, so I don't think there is any danger of those systems ever moving ahead of MARTA.

Dallas.

Houston is going full steam ahead too but their compact system is wisely focused on the urban core and serves only Houston's most dense, intense activity centers - it's not a regional system like MARTA or DART.

[L41A]

Dallas.

Houston is going full steam ahead too but their compact system is wisely focused on the urban core and serves only Houston's most dense, intense activity centers - it's not a regional system like MARTA or DART.

When DART trains start carrying half of what MARTA trains carry...... maybe and just maybe then we can even start talking about MARTA falling behind - no - scratch that falling behind/ more like others catching up.

It may be more accurate to state that the other referenced transit systems are gaining momentum to catch up to Atlanta's MARTA. But to state that MARTA is falling behind them is not true.

And I wouldn't call MARTA exactly regional either. If the MARTA lines extended into Cobb and Gwinnett counties - maybe then you could call it regional. But MARTA trains serve mostly the city of Atlanta and DeKalb County. MARTA train service even in Fulton County outside the city of Atlanta is limited.

[fflint]

Even with the advances made by many cities in recent years, Atlanta has by far the highest passenger rail ridership in the south. MARTA metro rail carries 225,300 (http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2011-q4-ridership-APTA.pdf) weekday riders, whereas DART light rail carries 83,400, Miami's heavy rail system carries 63,300 and Houston's light rail system carries 36,100 weekday riders.

[ardecila]

MARTA is roughly 30 years old. DART is roughly 15 years old.

That means DART has had only half the time to build ridership, and it already has more trackage and more stations. On the other hand, DART has favored freeway corridors and freight-rail corridors, so the lines don't necessarily run where the riders are.

[tdawg]

by neighbors I really meant other Southern metropolises like Dallas and Houston that are competitors. Dallas especially.

[electricron]

MARTA is roughly 30 years old. DART is roughly 15 years old.

That means DART has had only half the time to build ridership, and it already has more trackage and more stations. On the other hand, DART has favored freeway corridors and freight-rail corridors, so the lines don't necessarily run where the riders are.
Maybe DART isn't present where the riders are, but DART is present where the riders might want to go. I can only think of one major destination area in Dallas, specifically the Galleria, where the light rail trains don't go. Many neighborhoods surrounding DART light rail stations are going through regeneration process, more densely packed apartment buildings are sprouting up, and through this process DART will be where the riders are too.
When comparing rail systems with others nationally, you got to give the real estate developers time to do their magic. It took MARTA, I mean Atlanta, 30 years to densify, give Dallas that same 30 years.

[L41A]

Maybe DART isn't present where the riders are, but DART is present where the riders might want to go. I can only think of one major destination area in Dallas, specifically the Galleria, where the light rail trains don't go. Many neighborhoods surrounding DART light rail stations are going through regeneration process, more densely packed apartment buildings are sprouting up, and through this process DART will be where the riders are too.
When comparing rail systems with others nationally, you got to give the real estate developers time to do their magic. It took MARTA, I mean Atlanta, 30 years to densify, give Dallas that same 30 years.

MARTA trains have been carrying over 200,000 weekday riders for well over 15 years which coincidentally would make it about the same age (15 years) as you state DART is now and DART carries 83,000. I remember hearing a report when MARTA weekday ridership hit 100,000 and that was in the 1980s I believe. But I do understand that what DART is doing today may be exciting.

[fflint]

By building a large rail network from scratch, DART is seeing huge light rail ridership increases. That said, it doesn't carry anywhere near as many riders as MARTA heavy rail does (or did at the same age, apparently), and won't likely for many more years--so it's not obvious DART's creation of a new rail system where none existed somehow shows Atlanta 'falling behind' other southern cities in regards to transit. Mature rail systems don't expand exponentially the way new ones do.

[electricron]

MARTA trains have been carrying over 200,000 weekday riders for well over 15 years which coincidentally would make it about the same age (15 years) as you state DART is now and DART carries 83,000. I remember hearing a report when MARTA weekday ridership hit 100,000 and that was in the 1980s I believe. But I do understand that what DART is doing today may be exciting.
True. MARTA had trains leaving downtown Atlanta using the four compass points from almost the very beginning. DART has had trains leaving downtown Dallas on four compass points in just the last few years. The recently completed Green line fulfilled the NW and SE compass points, the Red and Blue lines filled the S-SW and N-NE compass points. Huge areas of Dallas itself didn't have good access to light rail trains, now they do. Watch DART ridership numbers climb. Will they ever get as great as MARTA, who knows?

[Matthew]

The state of Georgia has a way to push this forward. If voters defeat this, the state will require cities/counties in the counties voting on this to pay up to three times more to build or repave roadways! This was reported on Fox 5 around 6 p.m. They may rebroadcast it at 10 p.m., if you turn on your TV now. If it's defeated, the state will provide less road construction money. Cities in the story said defeating the transportation sales tax would lead to deferred maintenance and less road construction. A road project requiring $40,000 in city/county money now would require $120,000 in city/county money if voters say no to this tax. This is already convincing anti-transit suburbanites to vote yes. If you vote no, prepare for a rough ride to work in your SUV.

[LtBk]

This is surprising coming from Georgia.

[electricron]

The state of Georgia has a way to push this forward. If voters defeat this, the state will require cities/counties in the counties voting on this to pay up to three times more to build or repave roadways! This was reported on Fox 5 around 6 p.m. They may rebroadcast it at 10 p.m., if you turn on your TV now. If it's defeated, the state will provide less road construction money. Cities in the story said defeating the transportation sales tax would lead to deferred maintenance and less road construction. A road project requiring $40,000 in city/county money now would require $120,000 in city/county money if voters say no to this tax. This is already convincing anti-transit suburbanites to vote yes. If you vote no, prepare for a rough ride to work in your SUV.

Sounds like a scare tactic, and sensational TV reporting to me. Don't you just love the throw mud in your face politics? If that story was anywhere close to be true, every TV station and every news media outlet would have it, you could even find an internet link, but they don't.

[Matthew]

It may have been channel 2 (WSB-TV)? This explains why you couldn't find the link. I apologize for the mistake and found the link for you. I thought I was watching Fox 5. I watch both 2 and 5 news and have it on in the background while I'm at the computer. I trust channel 2. Their reporting is solid. Here's a link and this matches the story I was watching, including the mayor of Kennesaw interview.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/rejecting-transportation-sales-tax-could-cost-vote/nMYCJ/

I edited this from the link above.
....uncovered a clause in a regional transportation sales tax referendum that could cost taxpayers even more if it does not pass. ....critics of the plan say that voting against the proposal could actually cost tax payers even more. ....his city can currently get a state grant for the road work and only has to pay about 10 percent of the project, about $40,000. Should the transportation referendum fail, the local match for road work would triple for every community, meaning the same project would cost taxpayers in the city of Kennesaw $120,000. One voter....said knowing about the penalty could sway her opinion.

WSB-TV, WSB 750/95.5 and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution are all owned by the same company (COX) and they are in the same building, sharing resources. This story may appear in the newspaper soon?

[bobdreamz]

Anybody have polls on this? There must be some by now.

[Jonboy1983]

I, too, think this should pass. I live in greater Philly, and SEPTA sucks! We have bus routes that run similar if not the same routings as its regional rail counterparts.

Regarding MARTA, I guess they're trying to overhaul their old obsolete system with something newer, more state-of-the-art as well as more dependable? Believe me, I guess the day Philadelphia does this it will be the day after judgement day pretty much...

[shivtim]

This map from the Transport Politic gives an idea of the transit expansion plans included under the tax. The solid thick red lines are the existing MARTA heavy rail lines. The various dashed and dotted lines are projects included in the tax.
(Map copyright Yonah Freemark (http://yonahfreemark.tumblr.com/)at theThe Transport Politic (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/))

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Atlanta-2012-Update.jpg

[L41A]

This map from the Transport Politic gives an idea of the transit expansion plans included under the tax. The solid thick red lines are the existing MARTA heavy rail lines. The various dashed and dotted lines are projects included in the tax.
(Map copyright Yonah Freemark (http://yonahfreemark.tumblr.com/)at theThe Transport Politic (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/))

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Atlanta-2012-Update.jpg

Thanks for sharing.

It's good to see the MARTA heavy rail line dipping more into South DeKalb. I recognized from news reports that some in DeKalb were disappointed in the proposed busway via Turner Field to Wesley Chapel. They wanted rail. As a Fulton County resident, I understood their concerns because DeKalb and Fulton has been shouldering the financial responsibility of MARTA and should reap its share of benefits.

All in all, it looks promising and is a good start. I just hope the governance does not get bogged down in political quagmire.

[ardecila]

Seems like it would make sense to link the various segments of light rail. Adding a segment between the Northwest Corridor and the Clifton Corridor would be great... they could follow the CSX line (northern section of the Beltline) between Northside Drive and Piedmont. Then people coming from the northwest would have only one transfer to get to the Emory/CDC area.

Likewise, the extension of MARTA into south DeKalb could also be done with light rail, extending from the Avondale station to Stonecrest along US-278. The 278 corridor offers far more potential for TOD than a MARTA line that runs along the Perimeter and I-20... since when do people want to live next to a freeway? Or it could follow Redan Rd eastward to the rail corridor and then south to Stonecrest (hitting downtown Lithonia).

[tdawg]

MARTA to Stonecrest and connecting Avondale to Lindbergh are the standouts on this map to me. I hope this passes.

[DonTallPaul]

I'm generally really looking forward to this. Not a huge fan of any more taxes, but I'm also enough of a realist to know we need transportation dollars from somewhere and transit needs to be a key piece of the balance.

That being said, I'm a little disappointed commuter rail isn't a more significant part of this. Seems unlikely to me that we could not have gotten a couple of lines of commuter rail. It didn't need to be everything on the commuter rail wish list, but Athens-Atlanta line + southside line would be huge and would just further support walkable development and local ridership on the other lines.

I do think the Emory line (eventually going to Decatur) is huge, as is getting transit further out to Stonecrest. Finally, I'm a fan of both the North Ave street car and the Cobb LRT - but wished maybe West side (which is becoming increasing redeveloped and dense) was a more core part of the transit plans. Hopefully the "Short" option chosen at least gives us Atlanta Station and Marietta/Howell Mill stops before turning north.

[M II A II R II K]

Atlanta Transpo Referendum Draws an Unlikely Opponent in Local Sierra Club


May 1, 2012

Bby Angie Schmitt

Read More: http://dc.streetsblog.org/2012/05/01/atlanta-transpo-referendum-draws-an-unlikely-opponent-in-local-sierra-club/


.....

Yesterday, the Sierra Club of Georgia announced it was urging its members to vote against the proposal in favor of what it calls “Plan-B.” The Sierra Club hopes that after the referendum is defeated, a new proposal funded by the gas tax with “a fix-it-first roads strategy” “that emphasizes transit expansion and improvement” will emerge, according to a statement from the group printed in the local alt-weekly, Creative Loafing.

- The Sierra Club plan sounds like great transportation policy, but it currently lacks the political and organizational support underpinning TIA. And compared to the region’s current transportation, TIA is pretty good policy. If Atlanta lets the current moment slip by, there’s no telling when the region will have another good opportunity to raise billions in revenue for transit. The Sierra Club is planning a joint press conference with — oddly enough — local Tea Party officials this week where they will discuss their concerns further.

- Meanwhile, more mainstream groups were quick to criticize the Sierra Club’s position. Citizens for Transportation Mobility, a group of business interests that is pushing for TIA’s passage, responded with “dismay.” “We find it highly unusual that an organization charged with preserving and protecting our environment would oppose a transportation investment that has the potential to do exactly that,” Che Watkins, campaign manager for CTM, told Creative Loafing. “The Regional Transportation Referendum holds more promise of relieving congestion and reducing air pollution than any plan in decades.”

- “If the Sierra Club has its way,” he continued, “more harm will be done to the environment as the state continues to fund roads to the exclusion of transit.” Ashley Robbins, president of Citizens for Progressive Transit, which is leading the campaign for TIA’s passage, said that her group “respectfully disagrees” with the Sierra Club on many points The money expected to be raised by the new sales tax is to be divided up into three pots. Fifteen percent of the money will go towards local communities to use at their discretion. The rest of the money will be divided among road and transit projects — with 52 percent supporting transit, and 48 percent supporting roads.

.....




The Atlanta Beltline, shown here in an artist's rendering, would be funded by a one-cent sales tax referendum to be considered by Atlanta area voters in July. But the local Sierra Club is urging its members to vote against the proposal.

http://dc.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/beltline-transit-1.jpg



This Sierra Club diagram assumes the 15 percent of the TIA money allocated to local communities would all be spent on roads, something that Atlanta and the city of Decatur have disputed.

http://dc.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Picture-2.png

[miketoronto]

MARTA trains have been carrying over 200,000 weekday riders for well over 15 years which coincidentally would make it about the same age (15 years) as you state DART is now and DART carries 83,000. I remember hearing a report when MARTA weekday ridership hit 100,000 and that was in the 1980s I believe. But I do understand that what DART is doing today may be exciting.

People are forgetting that MARTA is a heavy rail subway.
This is probably the biggest reason for the difference in ridership levels.

[electricron]

Is the NAACP still against the referendum as written, or has their policy changed recently?

I'm having a very difficult time believing this referendum is going to pass with both the NAACP and Sierra Club against. :(

[shivtim]

The Georgia Sierra Club is the only environmental group that is opposed to the TIA/TSPLOST. For comparison, some environmental/transit/sustainability groups that have specifically come out in support of the tax include:
Environment Georgia, Southern Environmental Law Center, Sustainable Atlanta, Georgians for Passenger Rail, Mothers And Others for Clean Air, Atlanta BeltLine, Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, Citizens for Progressive Transit, MARTA, Liveable Communities Coalition, Emory University Office of Sustainability, Atlanta Regional Health Forum, Congress for New Urbanism, and Park Pride.

[electricron]

The Georgia Sierra Club is the only environmental group that is opposed to the TIA/TSPLOST. For comparison, some environmental/transit/sustainability groups that have specifically come out in support of the tax include:
Environment Georgia, Southern Environmental Law Center, Sustainable Atlanta, Georgians for Passenger Rail, Mothers And Others for Clean Air, Atlanta BeltLine, Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, Citizens for Progressive Transit, MARTA, Liveable Communities Coalition, Emory University Office of Sustainability, Atlanta Regional Health Forum, Congress for New Urbanism, and Park Pride.
I guess the lack of the NAACP on your list answers my earlier question. It sure would have been nicer of you to have answered it more directly.

[shivtim]

^ I wasn't answering your question at all. I have no idea if the NAACP is still opposed. They haven't released any statement other than their original opposition in mid April. As I stated above, I was only referring to "environmental/transit/sustainability groups," which certainly does not include the NAACP.
If you're talking about any type of group, the only three that have gotten any publicity for opposing the transportation tax are the Dekalb County NAACP (Note, NOT the Atlanta NAACP or nationwide NAACP), the Georgia Sierra Club, and the Tea Party of Georgia. Meanwhile, more than 75 local/regional/state organizations are in favor.

[TarHeelJ]

^ I wasn't answering your question at all. I have no idea if the NAACP is still opposed. They haven't released any statement other than their original opposition in mid April. As I stated above, I was only referring to "environmental/transit/sustainability groups," which certainly does not include the NAACP.
If you're talking about any type of group, the only three that have gotten any publicity for opposing the transportation tax are the Dekalb County NAACP (Note, NOT the Atlanta NAACP or nationwide NAACP), the Georgia Sierra Club, and the Tea Party of Georgia. Meanwhile, more than 75 local/regional/state organizations are in favor.

The Georgia Sierra Club only has around 10,000 members across the state...so it isn't really a formidable voting bloc anyway. It's good to know that the other environmental groups aren't so short-sighted. What a bunch of assholes to oppose the only chance Atlanta currently has at some decent transit improvements. There may not be any "plan B" for a long time...

[L41A]

MARTA trains have been carrying over 200,000 weekday riders for well over 15 years which coincidentally would make it about the same age (15 years) as you state DART is now and DART carries 83,000. I remember hearing a report when MARTA weekday ridership hit 100,000 and that was in the 1980s I believe. But I do understand that what DART is doing today may be exciting.

People are forgetting that MARTA is a heavy rail subway.
This is probably the biggest reason for the difference in ridership levels.

Don't know why you felt propelled to respond to my post. But I do know that MARTA is heavy rail and DART is light rail. I also know that heavy rail is faster, and yes has more capacity than light rail. Even when looking at APTA latest bus ridership, MARTA carries significantly more than DART.

So its possible to deduce using your logic than DART system may be on the level of WMATA (DC's transit system) based on its light rail mileage and DC's heavy rail ridership. :haha: OK I get it.

[L41A]

Is the NAACP still against the referendum as written, or has their policy changed recently?

I'm having a very difficult time believing this referendum is going to pass with both the NAACP and Sierra Club against. :(

DeKalb NAACP has expressed opposition to the referendum. Their opposition is based mostly on what I stated earlier in this thread : they wanted rail from Downtown Atlanta via Turner Field to Wesley Chapel rather than BRT line.

Their argument uses the premise that DeKalb and Fulton has been funding MARTA alone for over 40 years. Their opposition is based on wanting more which is different than the Tea party. While I understand their argument, I believe in the notion of not "cutting off your nose to spite the face". For a functional democracy, not everyone gets everything one wants all the time.

Still, I tend to believe the referendum will pass. This belief is based on the support of the referendum by the business community, the Republican governor, Democratic mayor of Atlanta, the Republican state legislature, the Democratic CEO of DeKalb County government amongst others included those mentioned by shivtim.

[ardecila]

DeKalb NAACP has expressed opposition to the referendum. Their opposition is based mostly on what I stated earlier in this thread : they wanted rail from Downtown Atlanta via Turner Field to Wesley Chapel rather than BRT line.

This would be better than the stupid, absurdly expensive heavy rail from Indian Creek to Stonecrest. Build LRT along I-20 with a BRT connection from Wesley Chapel to Decatur. There really shouldn't be any rail lines that extend past the Perimeter more than one or two stations, unless we're talking about a low-cost commuter line.

[SnyderBock]

Where can we find the plans, for these proposed transit and road improvements?

[shivtim]

^ They're all listed and described here:
http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/

[llamaorama]

MARTA is much different than DART because it bores directly into the major employment and activity centers in Atlanta. There are subway stations in the middle of Buckhead, Midtown, Downtown, Decatur, Sandy Springs, the Airport etc. With a line directly to Emory and the CDC, that's another big destination. If it wasn't for poor management, fare hikes, etc, it would kick ass.

But anyways, how will this new expansion continue that?

Spending a lot of money on extensions outside the perimeter to a freaking suburban mall sounds like a waste. They need to get Emory and the CDC plugged in, then focus on bus improvements in parts of town where a lot of the riders actually come from.

[M II A II R II K]

How Much Will $6 Billion Improve Access to Jobs in Metro Atlanta?


May 21, 2012

By Angie Schmitt

Read More: http://streetsblog.net/2012/05/21/how-much-will-6-billion-improve-access-to-jobs-in-metro-atlanta/


.....

In their quest to win voter support for a $6 billion funding package that would be split about evenly between transit and roads, proponents have settled on the phrase ”Let’s Untie Atlanta’s Knot.” Equating the ballot measure to a referendum on Atlanta’s notorious congestion woes seems like a smart idea. Network blog Decatur Metro decided to evaluate the “untying” claim on its central promise — congestion relief — and found that it passes the sniff test, especially when it comes to transit:

- The AJC this morning has summarized the Atlanta Regional Commission’s findings from a 10-year traffic simulation program and shown that the figures overall are either impressive or underwhelming, depending on what area you look at and/or which expert/non-expert you speak with.

Atlanta’s infrastructure is a big ol’ expensive mistress, and though $6 billion may sound big compared to, say, our annual salaries, it’s a drop in the bucket for the metro area’s collection of road and rail. Or Mark Zuckerberg for that matter. But some figures seem heartening…

From the Atlanta Journal Constitution:

- On average, the number of metro Atlantans able to reach job centers in under 45 minutes would rise just 6 percent by car, and about 20 percent by bus or train, if the projects are built. The new transit projects expect perhaps 75,000 or more daily boardings. Regional planners insist that in the world of transportation design, a 6 percent or 20 percent jump in good commutes is a big deal.

.....

[shivtim]

This is pretty complicated, so here is some clarification on this referendum for those who are interested:

-It's a "transportation" referendum, so it's not just transit. It includes road expansions and even some money for an airport control tower.
-The Atlanta region as a whole (10 counties) will vote on July 31st.
-In order to pass, the referendum must have an overall yes vote across the 10 county region. So several counties could vote against it and it could still pass. What matters is only if the overall yes vote total passes 50%.
-The referendum would start a 1% sales tax that would last for a maximum of 10 years. If the total amount needed is raised early, the tax would expire early.
-The total amount to be raised is $7.2 billion.
-85% of the money ($6.14 billion) goes to construct "regional projects." The money would pay for these projects only.
-The list of regional projects is set in stone and was developed and approved unanimously by elected officials from across the region.
-The full projects list is avialable here: http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/archive/01160/PDF__Final_project_1160778a.pdf
-The remaining 15% (a little more than $1 billion) is divided among local jurisdictions (each county and city in the region). The amount for each jurisdiction is determined by a formula based on the number of people and road lane miles. They can use this money on any local projects they want.
-Local jurisdictions are not required to announce before the vote what they will spend their 15% on. So far Cobb County and the city of Atlanta have both released a local list anyway.
-Support for the referendum has come from all sides. The business/corporate community is leading a well-funded support campaign. Politicians ranging from the republican Governor of Georgia to the democratic mayor of Atlanta have voiced strong support. The local Universities (Emory, Georgia Tech, Morehouse, etc) are all in support. Most local transit/sustainability non-profits are all in support. MARTA supports. The Beltline supports. Local unions are in support.
-Opposition for the referendum has also come from all sides. Tea Party groups and some suburban/exurban officials oppose the tax simply because it is a tax. Some oppose because they don't support transit expansion. Some don't believe there is a traffic problem in the first place. The Sierra Club of Georgia opposes because they think there is too much road expansion on the list. The Dekalb County NAACP opposes because they think the project list ignores heavily African American south Dekalb County.
-Polling has been limited and is mixed. One poll showed the tax barely losing, while another showed it winning. In general there is strong support from the urban core (Fulton County, Dekalb County, Clayton County, City of Atlanta, City of Decatur), moderate support from urban nodes in suburban counties, and moderate to strong opposition from suburban/exurban counties.

[ardecila]

Speaking of well-funded transportation campaigns... check out the ads at the bottom of this thread.

[Rail Claimore]

City of Atlanta, Fulton, DeKalb, Clayton, and Gwinnett Counties will vote for the tax. All other suburban counties will vote against it. The swing vote in this referendum is Cobb.

[shivtim]

Atlanta Mayor argues for the T-SPLOST:
http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2012/07/17/atlanta-mayor-kasim-reed-speaks-up-for-tsplost-%E2%80%98just-surviving-means-just-surviving%E2%80%99/
"In an unexpectedly passionate speech that took aim at doubters and the news media, Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed this morning declared the campaign for the transportation sales tax to be far from dead, and said passage of the July 31 referendum was needed to pull the region out of the doldrums that threaten its economic standing in the South."

Sounds like a constructive protest...
http://mdjonline.com/bookmark/19345431/article-Group+to+circle+I-285+to+protest+TSPLOST#.UAbfvRzg5WZ
"A Cobb County anti-TSPLOST group plans to drive around Interstate 285 on Saturday to protest the proposed 1 percent sales tax that voters from 10 counties will vote on July 31.
The Lights for Liberty Drive, organized by the Individual Liberty Coalition, will begin at 10 a.m. Participants are asked to access I-285 from any on-ramp with their flashers on, driving the speed limit and circling the 50-plus-mile route twice counter-clockwise, which should take about two hours."

[Nexis4Jersey]

I don't understand how you can oppose a 1cent sales tax increase , anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American.

[bobdreamz]

I wish the best for Atlanta on July 31st. but to get 10 counties to agree on raising the sales tax seems like a formidable task0 Some of the polls I've seen aren't to promising so far. Can you ATL forumers keep us posted on the latest polls as we get closer to the day of the vote?

[L41A]

I don't understand how you can oppose a 1cent sales tax increase , anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American.

It is not a 1 cent sales tax increase. It is a 1 percent sales tax increase.

I support the TSPLOST but I do understand the reasoning by some who may oppose .... like Fulton and DeKalb already paying 1 percent tax for MARTA - then an additional 1 percent if TSPLOST passes - making Fulton sales tax around 9 - 10%.

[shivtim]

Can you ATL forumers keep us posted on the latest polls as we get closer to the day of the vote?

The latest poll showed it 38% for, 41% against, with the rest undecided. It was within the margin of error. However, a poll released last week by the opposition showed it trailing by more than 10%. There were questions about the accuracy of that poll because it wasn't "likely voters" and it was only on landlines (not cell phones).

[Rail Claimore]

It'll be close: My guess is that which-ever way it goes, the margin will be less than 5%.

[ardecila]

It is not a 1 cent sales tax increase. It is a 1 percent sales tax increase.

I.E. one additional cent on the dollar. What else could be implied by "one-cent tax"?

[L41A]

I don't understand how you can oppose a 1cent sales tax increase , anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American.

It is not a 1 cent sales tax increase. It is a 1 percent sales tax increase.

I support the TSPLOST but I do understand the reasoning by some who may oppose .... like Fulton and DeKalb already paying 1 percent tax for MARTA - then an additional 1 percent if TSPLOST passes - making Fulton sales tax around 9 - 10%.

I.E. one additional cent on the dollar. What else could be implied by "one-cent tax"?

I got the implication that Nexis4Jersey meant 1 cent (not 1 cent to the dollar or 1%) because he followed with "anything below 15 cents isn't going to hurt the average American".

With the total sales tax being 9% (or 9 cents to the dollar) in Fulton County, you would only have to make $1.67 purchase to tally the 15 cents that he stated would start to hurt the average American. He obviously did not mean 15% because I don't believe there is nowhere in America where the sales tax is 15% (or 15 cents to the dollar). In fact, a quick google search tells me that certain districts in Chicago has the highest sales tax in the country at 11.5% (11.5 cents to the dollar).

So I believe my deduction from he stated was reasonable. Thank You!:)
If not, it would seem that he thinks that Fulton County pays no sales tax currently and would just have the 1% sales tax for the TSPLOST.

[ardecila]

Doesn't look good for Atlanta, although they've only tallied 33% of the precincts and urban precincts are usually the last to come in.

Unfortunately, if T-SPLOST fails, it will probably be taken as a repudiation of any and all transit, and following transportation decisions at the state level will be roads-only. I hate the slogan, but if Atlanta wants to "win the future", it's gonna have to adopt a more supportive attitude toward transit service (and MARTA may need to make changes as well).

[tdawg]

Considering the national attention this has received at a time when cities like Denver, Los Angeles, and Dallas are expanding their transit systems, it's likely to be big black eye for Atlanta's reputation, just when it doesn't need one.

[L41A]

It is not looking good for the Atlanta Region with the TSPLOST. It is one of eight transportation regions that is saying no. Although there are less percentage of precincts reporting in the Atlanta region.

Three regions, including Augusta and Columbus regions, are passing TSPLOST with a majority of precincts reporting.

The opposition to Atlanta region TSPLOST by the likes of Georgia Sierra Club and DeKalb NAACP is really hurting its passage. I understand their positions. However, I don't think they understand that TSPLOST is not the end-all for transportation projects in the Atlanta Region. They could have still push their agenda for transit regardless of TSPLOST funds - much like the Multi-Modal Station which isn't a TSPLOST project. Oh well.

[atlantaguy]

Considering the national attention this has received at a time when cities like Denver, Los Angeles, and Dallas are expanding their transit systems, it's likely to be big black eye for Atlanta's reputation, just when it doesn't need one.

Exactly, tdawg. I'm watching the returns as I post, and it's still early - but I'm not seeing it pass.

Of course, the exurban Counties are voting against it at about 4 to 1. DeKalb & Fulton aren't in yet - it's close so far, but on the negative side. It's doesn't look good at all.

Pretty depressing for a LOT of us, to say the least.

[shivtim]

Multiple news stations have called it - TSPLOST will fail in the Atlanta region. Early numbers show it trailing in all 10 counties.

[M II A II R II K]

It's been reported that the initial votes indicate a vote against this tax.

[Cirrus]

It lost. It wasn't close.

[mhays]

It's not necessarily a black eye. The measure was a grab bag and had plenty for everyone to dislike, and it sounds like too many projects that voters never understood. The next one doesn't have to be that way.

Simplify, narrow the geography to the core few million, and make it only about transit. The urban and enviro crowd and much of the business community should get behind it. The roads can be a separate issue.

This approach (aside from the smaller geography) was successful in Seattle when we had a very similar roads and transit measure a few years ago which also failed.

[atlantaguy]

^Bingo!

[waltlantz]

It's not necessarily a black eye. The measure was a grab bag and had plenty for everyone to dislike, and it sounds like too many projects that voters never understood. The next one doesn't have to be that way.

Simplify, narrow the geography to the core few million, and make it only about transit. The urban and enviro crowd and much of the business community should get behind it. The roads can be a separate issue.

This approach (aside from the smaller geography) was successful in Seattle when we had a very similar roads and transit measure a few years ago which also failed.

I dunno. According to the AJC, this seemed like a "no more big govmint" type issue for opponents. Seeing as how transit equates to waste in some circles I think you would have to at least have the 50 50 split again even if you focus on the core 5 county area.

Frankly while admirable, I had no idea why they focused on such a large area politcally, it was bound to fail (regardless of metro area).

[BlindFatSnake]

What you must understand about Georgia republicans: they are hellbent on destroying MARTA and/or keeping it at 48 miles. If this boondoggle had passed, MARTA would NOT have been able to expand beyond its current 48 miles. ALL NEW RAIL would have been owned and operated by the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority.

How's that for a swift kick to the a$$. Now, the republicans are saddled with a 20% increase in the amount the state will match for local projects. Was 10% - now 30%. Let's see how they handle this EXTORTION.

Knowing the facts and reading HB277 will reveal a boondoggle laden with land mines and IEDs. And, they're blowing up in the faces of all those road-hugging republicans living in the suburbs.

Shut up and eat your crow... lmao

[cabasse]

It lost. It wasn't close.

:poke:

thanks for letting us know, cirrus! tbh, though, i wasn't expecting it to pass. this is jawjuh after all.

if a plan b ever coalesces, i'm going to be over 30 by that point, and i've already noticed time passing more rapidly. i don't think i want to live somewhere any longer where i'm going to be holding out for something better in the future. now the time begins for me to find that sweet spot of a city that's not too cold, not too expensive, not too hipster, not too pompous... etc

[Cirrus]

Are you being sarcastic, Cabasse?

I'm sure those of you in GA already knew. But lots of people from around the country were interested, and may not have. We don't all read the AJC. And since this is in the Transportation subforum instead of the Atlanta subforum, that means this is the thread where people from other cities get their updates on SSP. I don't think it was inappropriate to post the final outcome here.

[ardecila]

With a great climate, lovely rolling topography and a rich culture, Atlanta has the ingredients to be one of America's most beautiful cities. Unfortunately the city is also saddled with ugly ribbons of asphalt a mile wide, stretching out in all directions as far as the eye can look away.

Atlanta clearly needs alternatives... I found that out yesterday when it took me 40 minutes to get through the Medical Center area. Too bad it won't get there anytime soon.

[Rail Claimore]

:poke:

thanks for letting us know, cirrus! tbh, though, i wasn't expecting it to pass. this is jawjuh after all.

if a plan b ever coalesces, i'm going to be over 30 by that point, and i've already noticed time passing more rapidly. i don't think i want to live somewhere any longer where i'm going to be holding out for something better in the future. now the time begins for me to find that sweet spot of a city that's not too cold, not too expensive, not too hipster, not too pompous... etc

Houston?

[atlantaguy]

Everyone needs to remember to not underestimate the core of the metro. Despite our totally hostile, dysfunctional and anti-Atlanta state government, we'll figure out a way to keep going. The burbs can choke on their own exhaust - Fulton/DeKalb and probably Gwinnett will figure out how to get around this.

Great fundamentals are already in place here. Just exactly how many cities have a single seat heavy rail ride from a massively world-connected airport to 4 of the largest/most important business districts in the entire region as we do (and yes, this includes the entire massive swath of the country from D.C. to Texas, including ALL all of Florida)? Think about it. Despite all the doom and gloom, for a major U.S. metro this is still a very desirable place to be. This isn't going away. The CORE of Atlanta continues to improve on a daily basis, and shows no signs of abating - despite the economy.

Everyone needs to just chill for a little while until this sorts out.

[atlantaguy]

:poke:

thanks for letting us know, cirrus! tbh, though, i wasn't expecting it to pass. this is jawjuh after all.

if a plan b ever coalesces, i'm going to be over 30 by that point, and i've already noticed time passing more rapidly. i don't think i want to live somewhere any longer where i'm going to be holding out for something better in the future. now the time begins for me to find that sweet spot of a city that's not too cold, not too expensive, not too hipster, not too pompous... etc

I've got news for you, Tim.

You already live there.

[M II A II R II K]

Few transit funding options for metro Atlanta


August 5, 2012

By Ariel Hart

Read More: http://www.ajc.com/news/few-transit-funding-options-1491071.html


.....

Over the next 40 years, 70 percent of the metro area's transportation budget will go just to fixing and maintaining what already exists, according to the ARC. Some new toll lanes will be built, but those are on limited corridors. Georgia Regional Transportation Authority Xpress commuter buses will likely have to win permanent state funding, or cease to exist.

.....

In addition, following last month, we now know:

- Revenue from the Ga. 400 toll, about $20 million per year before expenses, will cease next year, according to an announcement from the governor.

- Unless legislators change the law, the metro area's towns and counties will now pay more as matching funds for some state grants for local roads.

- Deal, following the election, closed the door on the possibility of new funding for expanding the rail network.

- Deal plans to focus on building the Ga. 400/I-285 interchange. That is a boon for a congested employment corridor. For other areas, if that means getting it done sooner, that would mean postponing funding for other projects — hundreds of millions of dollars worth — which currently take up that space in the budget.

- Congress finally passed a national transportation plan, signed by President Barack Obama on July 6. State leaders fear that changes it made may cut back Georgia's federal road funding by about 8 percent. Not to mention, it left long-term funding gaps unanswered.

.....

[shivtim]

http://eastatlanta.patch.com/blog_posts/t-splost-how-we-really-voted-and-three-things-i-took-away

http://o3.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/PATCH/resize/600x450/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/patch/a1948129d511cc125384c30db987e042

"Results from Fulton and DeKalb were far more complicated. In these counties, the vast majority of intown residents supported the measure while the vast majority of suburban residents turned it down... The split did not fall on traditional lines of class or race."

"The Beltline is Wildly Popular Intown – For City of Atlanta residents, the T-SPLOST vote was really about the Beltline, by far the largest project falling under the Atlanta jurisdiction. The question was this: were we willing to contribute about $100-$150 each for the next 10 years if that meant the Beltline would arrive sooner than planned. Over fifty-nine percent of us answered yes, and in some neighborhoods closest to the Beltline that percentage approached 80. If the T-SPLOST was indeed a referendum on transit, intown residents answered clearly. We want more. Now."

[shivtim]

http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/08/its-time-for-the-city-of-atlanta-fulton-and-dekalb-counties-to-retake-control-of-their-own-destiny/

"The regional transportation sales tax was a rare opportunity for the 10-county region to invest in metro Atlanta’s future. And the tax went down in flames — 62 percent to 38 percent in the 10-county area — failing in all 10 counties. But a preliminary precinct-by-precinct analysis of the vote by the Atlanta Regional Commission shows a slightly different story. In the City of Atlanta, the tax passed by 60 percent to 40 percent. Not only that, the map shows that the area inside I-285 generally favored the tax while support declined in concentric circles surrounding the core.There’s a lesson in these results. The core of the region continues to be willing to invest in its transit and transportation infrastructure.That is over and above the penny sales tax that the City of Atlanta, Fulton and DeKalb counties have been investing in MARTA for more than 40 years."

[shivtim]

http://clatl.com/atlanta/t-splost-failed-but-atlanta-hasnt/Content?oid=6060933

"If there's anything to learn from last week's vote, it's that Atlantans and a good number of DeKalb County residents are willing to pay extra to build new transit, turn speedy intown roads into walkable areas, and synchronize traffic lights."

"Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton... should partner and build projects. According to state revenue estimates, an additional 1 percent sales tax in the three counties could generate an additional $3.1 billion or so over 10 years — which could be used to build the Beltline transit segments, rail to South DeKalb County, MARTA expansions into Roswell, or other projects."

[electricron]

http://clatl.com/atlanta/t-splost-failed-but-atlanta-hasnt/Content?oid=6060933

"If there's anything to learn from last week's vote, it's that Atlantans and a good number of DeKalb County residents are willing to pay extra to build new transit, turn speedy intown roads into walkable areas, and synchronize traffic lights."

"Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton... should partner and build projects. According to state revenue estimates, an additional 1 percent sales tax in the three counties could generate an additional $3.1 billion or so over 10 years — which could be used to build the Beltline transit segments, rail to South DeKalb County, MARTA expansions into Roswell, or other projects."

I agree with your assessment. Some taxpayers don't want "Regionalism". Too many urban and transportation planners forget why those living in suburbs decided to live there in the first place. They don't want to live the urban lifestyle, and they don't want to pay for it too.
This large 10 county regional tax plan was doomed from the beginning. Regionalism needs to be as small as possible initially. Start with the City of Atlanta and the Counties it's within. Then slowly add additional Counties and Cities to the tax plan, one at a time if necessary. 10 counties all at once was just too ambitious.

[themaguffin]

Something I stated last week in the Atlanta thread on this is that there is a broader funding issue regarding the metro and really the state. The state doesn't want to pay for anything and that is a reflection of a rigid anti-tax views of many residents. This has created an unsustainable tax code that despite the current transportation issues, they still don't want to consider changing. Instead they want to start with a regressive sales tax.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Everyone needs to remember to not underestimate the core of the metro. Despite our totally hostile, dysfunctional and anti-Atlanta state government, we'll figure out a way to keep going. The burbs can choke on their own exhaust - Fulton/DeKalb and probably Gwinnett will figure out how to get around this.

Great fundamentals are already in place here. Just exactly how many cities have a single seat heavy rail ride from a massively world-connected airport to 4 of the largest/most important business districts in the entire region as we do (and yes, this includes the entire massive swath of the country from D.C. to Texas, including ALL all of Florida)? Think about it. Despite all the doom and gloom, for a major U.S. metro this is still a very desirable place to be. This isn't going away. The CORE of Atlanta continues to improve on a daily basis, and shows no signs of abating - despite the economy.

Everyone needs to just chill for a little while until this sorts out.

Everyone here already seems to be pretty chill. The fact is, these results set Atlanta back at least a couple years, and that's bound to have some sort of effect on quality of life or population/economic growth.

Is there some sort of mechanism by which the core counties that voted in favor of the plan can band together? How long would they have to wait to put up a new referendum?

[atlantaguy]

^This link that was in the body of electricon's post will explain the current mindset that thankfully seems to cathing on FIRE ITP. (Inside the Perimeter - I-285 for those that aren't familiar).

http://clatl.com/atlanta/t-splost-failed-but-atlanta-hasnt/Content?oid=6060933

[SnyderBock]

The way Denver was able to pass their FasTracks sales tax, was by limiting the vote to the actual Regional Transportation District (RTD). Metro Denver is composed of 8 counties, but many of those counties have vast rural portions and only a small portion in the actual urbanized Denver Metro Area. Also, they didn't take it before the voters in such poor economic times as now, but that's not what I'm getting at...

If the vote had included the entirety of every county which dips into the metro area, it likely would have not been successfully passed. The vote was limited to the actual district which is served by RTD. So everyone who was allowed to vote, where people who lived within the district and thus have access to use the existing public transportation as well as the expanded public transportation, being voted on.

A state-wide vote for a sales tax which would primarily be spent on transit in metro Denver, would have failed miserably. Heck, there are large numbers of people who did vote against FasTracks, simply because they lived in far-flung exo-burbs (they tend to be very pro-auto, anti-transit), because they didn't want to help pay for something they would never likely use. Now just expand that across the entire state, and it would be a landslid defeat.

One key, before FasTracks was added to the ballot, was the Regional Transportation District (RTD (http://www.rtd-denver.com/)); Denver Regional Council of Governments (DRCOG (http://www.drcog.org/))*; and the Metro Mayors Caucus (CMMC (http://www.metromayors.org/)), all got together to make trans-governmental agreements/compromises based on each communities needs and public input from each municipality within the RTD district, to finalize the actual FasTracks transit expansion plan which would be taken before voters.

In fact, this was a fairly unprecedented cooperation for an entire urban metro area working together to develop a regional transit plan to take before voters. It was heralded as a model for other metro areas across the country to use as an example on how one metro area can work together as "one city," for the greater good of the entire metro population.


*The Denver Regional Council of Governments (DRCOG (http://www.drcog.org/)) fosters regional cooperation among county and municipal governments in the Denver metropolitan area.

Mission Statement
DRCOG is local officials working together to address the region's challenges for today and tomorrow.

Vision Statement
Enhancing and protecting the quality of life in our region

[mhays]

Denver is also a lesson on timing and public mood. The economy ruined the revenue math of the original package, and now they're holding off on voting for the second tax package until the polling gets better. Based on my limited information, that's probably about waiting for a better economy, and establishing more of a track record for RTD so that voters will trust it more. Also much like Atlanta, it's skewed somewhat by the large geography, and by the focus on longer-distance systems rather than in-town coverage.

[Beta_Magellan]

The RTD also has a reputation for controlling construction and operating costs. I don’t get the impression MARTA (or GDOT, for that matter) are nearly as well-regarded.

[M II A II R II K]

Yes, Georgia, there is a Plan B for transportation

Read More: http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/10/10/yes-georgia-there-is-a-plan-b-for-transportation/


.....

Sure enough, a Plan B — or, more accurately, the first candidate for Plan B — was unveiled recently. It has much to recommend it. The plan comes from the free-market thinkers at the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, and it includes $3.5 billion in new projects across the state. Here are some highlights:

• The list includes completing the Fall Line Freeway from Columbus to Macon to Augusta, and enhancing U.S. 27 in the western part of the state, to create a new freight network. This, according to a previous study by McKinsey and Co., would allow between 30 percent and 60 percent of large trucks now on metro Atlanta roads — the equivalent of some 100,000 cars a day — to bypass the region entirely.

• It includes almost $2.2 billion of projects from T-SPLOST lists around the state, selected purely on a cost-benefit basis. In metro Atlanta, that means hundreds of millions of dollars for about a dozen projects, such as building a new interchange at I-285 and Ga. 400 and upgrading Tara Boulevard in Clayton County into a super-arterial road.

• It even includes $65 million a year to enhance mass transit around the state. In metro Atlanta, that means creating a true, region-wide network of rapid commuter-bus service and adding $10 million a year in state funds to maintain MARTA’s existing rail system.

.....

[mhays]

In other words, the highways-first approach.

I'm an outsider, but it sounds like that would be hard to pass. The urban voters would disagree with the minimal transit benefits. The anti-tax people would be against it regardless. Together that would be a hard barrier to overcome.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

In other words, the highways-first approach.

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing how this is a "Plan B" and not simply a surrender to automotive interests.

[atlantaguy]

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing how this is a "Plan B" and not simply a surrender to automotive interests.

Of course it is. This is what our idiot Governor and clueless Legislature wanted all along....