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Steely Dan
Dec 27, 2011, 6:45 PM
This being a state with one of the simplest and most effective flag designs I know of:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Flag_of_Pennsylvania.svg/675px-Flag_of_Pennsylvania.svg.png
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_pennsylvania)

yuck, that flag is horrible. way too much stuff going on there. and words are always a big no-no.

Cirrus
Dec 27, 2011, 8:11 PM
This being a state with one of the simplest and most effective flag designs I know of:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Flag_of_Pennsylvania.svg/200px-Flag_of_Pennsylvania.svg.png
Yeah, no. That flag violates almost every rule in the book. It is objectively awful. It is literally a joke. Flag nerds make fun of seal-on-a-blue-sheet flags all the time as basically the most brainless and least identifiable thing you can possibly do.

This shows every state flag in the US. If a 6 year old couldn't tell the difference at this scale between your flag and the flag of Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, or Wisconsin, then your flag fails.

http://www.ustank.com/images/FLAGS-STATES.jpg

Cirrus
Dec 27, 2011, 8:20 PM
And yes, btw, my Pittsburgh flags are objectively improvements over the adopted flag. You might not like them as much, and they might not be as pretty as graphics on your computer screen, but flag quality is a fairly objective question, and mine fit the objective standards better. They are more unique. More identifiable from a distance. More iconic. As flag designs they are definitely better. 100% of vexillologists would agree.

Steely Dan
Dec 27, 2011, 8:23 PM
the following US states have acceptable flags:

alabama
alaska
arizona
colorado
hawaii
maryland
mississippi
new mexico
south carolina (i still think the literal representation of the palm tree is a bit much, but it's acceptable)
tennessee
texas



would be acceptable if they could get rid of the words/seals:

arkansas
california
indiana
iowa
florida
georgia
missouri
north carolina
rhode island
wyoming



would be acceptable if they understood that all flags should take the uniform shape of a rectangle:

ohio



the rest are all severely lacking in imagination. slapping your state seal on a field is an extremely poor way of designing a flag. seals and flags have very different intended purposes and should not be used interchangeably. it would seem as though only a small percentage of states understand this.

Cirrus
Dec 27, 2011, 8:32 PM
^
You gotta include New Mexico on the 'acceptable' list.

Steely Dan
Dec 27, 2011, 8:33 PM
^ absolutely, sorry for the omission. i love new mexico's flag. simple and effective: the name of the game in flag design.

novawolverine
Dec 27, 2011, 8:34 PM
I was gonna say, the New Mexico flag is one of the best ones. I also hate the Mississippi flag that incorporates the Confederate flag. Georgia's flag is different from the one that Cirrus' graphic shows. It's more acceptable now, IMO.

Steely Dan
Dec 27, 2011, 8:41 PM
I also hate the Mississippi flag that incorporates the Confederate flag.
some of us may have a problem with what the "stars and bars" represent from a historical perspective, but taken on strictly graphical grounds, it's a very effective visual. it's similar to the nazi swastika. we may hate what it represents, but it's graphically genius.



Georgia's flag is different from the one that Cirrus' graphic shows. It's more acceptable now, IMO.
georgia's new design still has a stupid overly-detailed state seal type image in the corner, placing it in the second group on my list above.

turigamot
Dec 27, 2011, 8:42 PM
Yeah, no. That flag violates almost every rule in the book. It is objectively awful. It is literally a joke. Flag nerds make fun of seal-on-a-blue-sheet flags all the time as basically the most brainless and least identifiable thing you can possibly do.

This shows every state flag in the US. If a 6 year old couldn't tell the difference at this scale between your flag and the flag of Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, or Wisconsin, then your flag fails.

http://www.ustank.com/images/FLAGS-STATES.jpg


I dunno. As far as the seal flags go, Virginia's is pretty identifiable. Woman with her tit out standing on a dead guy.

Yeah. That's pretty badass. Maybe they should just remove the seal and the blue, and make the image larger. Best. Flag. Ever.

novawolverine
Dec 27, 2011, 9:12 PM
some of us may have a problem with what the "stars and bars" represent from a historical perspective, but taken on strictly graphical grounds, it's a very effective visual. it's similar to the nazi swastika. we may hate what it represents, but it's graphically genius.




georgia's new design still has a stupid overly-detailed state seal type image in the corner, placing it in the second group on my list above.

I don't think Georgia's new flag is less identifiable than the old one, which had a seal. I'm not against a coat of arms or a seal or text on a flag if it's still recognizable and attractive. And Mississippi's flag is just cluttered to me. I think the Confederate flag is actually more aesthetically pleasing than the current Mississippi flag.

Cirrus
Dec 27, 2011, 9:21 PM
I dunno. As far as the seal flags go, Virginia's is pretty identifiable. Woman with her tit out standing on a dead guy.
You can't see the topless woman unless you're up close. If you can't make it out at the scale of the image I showed above (or maybe a little bigger, but not much), then it's no good.
Maybe they should just remove the seal and the blue, and make the image larger. Best. Flag. Ever.
You joke, but that would be way better. Still probably a little too complex, but waaaaay more identifiable than the lame existing flag.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6583787651_af9a8cd0c1_z.jpg

Cirrus
Dec 27, 2011, 9:23 PM
BTW, I'd add Indiana and Rhode Island to list of flags that would be OK if they removed the lettering. They're simple enough otherwise. I think both would also be better without all the stars, but that's more of a subjective call.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Flag_of_Indiana.svg/500px-Flag_of_Indiana.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg/500px-Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg.png

Steely Dan
Dec 27, 2011, 9:37 PM
BTW, I'd add Indiana and Rhode Island to list of flags that would be OK if they removed the lettering. They're simple enough otherwise. I think both would also be better without all the stars, but that's more of a subjective call.

yeah, indiana and rhode island aren't too bad, better than most. that's why i had them on the second list.



i've always hated the flag of my home state, illinois. it's another one of those stupid boring "seal on a field" flags, made even worse with the big block "ILLINOIS" lettering along the bottom edge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Flag_of_Illinois.svg
source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Flag_of_Illinois.svg



just to show how stupid and mindless these types of dumb flags are, i spent about 10 minutes designing a new flag for illinois. now, i'm not saying this is some genius work of graphic design or anything, but even 10 minutes' worth of tooling around with simple shapes, coloring, and symbolism can produce a FAR better flag than these stupid "seal on a field" flags.

the blue bar on the top represents the mississippi/ohio rivers and the blue arc on the bottom represents lake michigan (the state's main formative bodies of water). the stylized john hancock tower in the center can read specifically as a symbol of chicago as one of the nation's leading urban centers, or more generically as a smoke stack representing all of illinois' industrial legacy. and the green lines on the white field to either side are stylized farm fields to represent the state's prodigious agricultural bounty. the blue bar/arc and black smokestack can also be read together as a big stylized letter "I" representing the state as a whole.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/379/illinoisflag.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/illinoisflag.jpg/)

John Martin
Dec 27, 2011, 10:16 PM
Salt Lake's flag in the list is outdated. The sad thing is, the newer one was adopted in 2006, and it's not any better:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6855/picture4wul.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/picture4wul.png/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Salt_Lake_City.svg

Even worse, they actually held a contest which resulted in some reasonable designs, and the city council rejected all of them. Here are a couple of the entries:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6325/picture5sv.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/picture5sv.png/)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600109738/Salt-Lake-flag-designs-just-dont-wow-City-Council.html?pg=2

vid
Dec 27, 2011, 11:18 PM
Except the whole plagiarism thing:

Liechtenstein
http://flagspot.net/images/l/li.gif

Regina
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Flag_of_Regina.svg/590px-Flag_of_Regina.svg.png


I can just see the flag design committee, "We're lazy so let's just pick a flag from some small obscure country and just change the colors and tweak the graphic. No one will notice." (Total apologies if Regina came up with it first and a sovereign country copied it. That would have been totally sweet!)

The gold bar is one third of the flag, not one half. It represents fields while the blue represents prairie sky. The crown represent's Regina's position as the Queen City. The city of Regina, Saskatchewan was named after "Victoria, Regina et Imperatrix" (Queen Empress Victoria), monarch at the time of the community's founding. Its similarities to the flag of Liechtenstein are coincidental. The colours in the flag of Regina actually have meanings to them. The colours in the flag of Liechtenstein have been changed a few times, they don't seem to have any specific meaning to them.

I think the Pittsburgh flags from the previous page would look better with a black on yellow Canadian Pale. That would allow the crest to appear larger, like Canada's maple leaf, and Canada's flag is considered among the world's best designed and most recognizable.

The Illinois flag redesign is still too complex and odd-looking. I'd incorporate the sun rising over Lake Michigan motif in some way.

hammersklavier
Dec 28, 2011, 12:01 AM
Yeah, no. That flag violates almost every rule in the book. It is objectively awful. It is literally a joke. Flag nerds make fun of seal-on-a-blue-sheet flags all the time as basically the most brainless and least identifiable thing you can possibly do.

This shows every state flag in the US. If a 6 year old couldn't tell the difference at this scale between your flag and the flag of Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, or Wisconsin, then your flag fails.

http://www.ustank.com/images/FLAGS-STATES.jpg
Thank you for showing me why I am not a flag nerd. De gustibus non dispuntandum, and "flag nerds" are not our ultimate vexicological arbiters...thank God.

PS...you do not need to be garish to stand out. Simple designs make statements all on their own.

mthq
Dec 28, 2011, 12:35 AM
And it's unfortunate that flag nerds and vexicological arbiters are not deciding our flags, but rather laymen on a city council...

I was reminded right away of the Liechtenstein flag when I first saw the Regina one, but I didn't think it to be a big deal. Indonesia, Greece, Liberia and a couple others could also be held to account for plagiarizing the American, but meh.. Plus the crown on the Regina flag looks a hell of a lot better than the Liechtenstein one. Liechtenstein can learn from these guys..

Except the whole plagiarism thing:

Liechtenstein
http://flagspot.net/images/l/li.gif

Regina
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Flag_of_Regina.svg/590px-Flag_of_Regina.svg.png


I can just see the flag design committee, "We're lazy so let's just pick a flag from some small obscure country and just change the colors and tweak the graphic. No one will notice." (Total apologies if Regina came up with it first and a sovereign country copied it. That would have been totally sweet!)


And I agree with Cirrus on the Pittsburgh flag. Any resistance to the simpler designs is based not on careful aesthetics and design criteria, but on nostalgia and resistance to change. There is no real platform for opposition toward simplicity.

texcolo
Dec 28, 2011, 1:21 AM
Here's my attempt at a new Illinois flag...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r112/texcolo/Illinois_Flag.jpg

The blue swatch in the upper right hand corner is Lake Michigan.

The white 6 sided star is Chicago.

The horizontal and vertical blue stripes are the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

The diagnal blue line is the Illinois River and canal.

The golden background represents the golden color of corn and wheat in the fields.

Xing
Dec 28, 2011, 1:48 AM
yeah, indiana and rhode island aren't too bad, better than most. that's why i had them on the second list.



i've always hated the flag of my home state, illinois. it's another one of those stupid boring "seal on a field" flags, made even worse with the big block "ILLINOIS" lettering along the bottom edge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Flag_of_Illinois.svg
source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Flag_of_Illinois.svg
[/URL]

I've always had issue with the drawing. It's a freakn flag, you would think the eagle would more realistically have its feet grabbing the shield it stands on. I thought at first, maybe its just this particular flag I'm looking at, but no. If the eagle , and the rest of the drawing looked better, that will bump it up. And I agree with you about words and messages on flags. The purpose of a flag is to say a lot without saying much, using symbols and colors that are meaningful to you. If you have to write out what you have to say, then you're not putting much thought into it.

And what's the point of writing "Illinois" on the flag? It's like saying, "hey everyone, did you know this is Illinois flag?" If the symbolism was good enough, people would assume it's Illinois.

texcolo
Dec 28, 2011, 1:53 AM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r112/texcolo/Virginia_flag.jpg

I know this is bending the rules with having text on the flag, but this one calls out for a slogan.

mthq
Dec 28, 2011, 2:26 AM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r112/texcolo/Virginia_flag.jpg

I know this is bending the rules with having text on the flag, but this one calls out for a slogan.


:worship::haha:

Cirrus
Dec 28, 2011, 4:35 AM
^ LOL.

De gustibus non dispuntandum

"About taste there is no dispute - taste is all subjective."

That term does not apply to these flag rules. Flags are not art. They aren't there just to look pretty. Flags are a tool with a function. They serve a specific purpose, which is to be instantly recognizable to anyone from a distance. If your flag does not follow these rules then it fails in its one and only purpose, regardless of how pretty anyone might think it to be.

All opinions are not equally valid here. This is not an aesthetic issue.

DBR96A
Dec 28, 2011, 5:01 AM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r112/texcolo/Virginia_flag.jpg

I know this is bending the rules with having text on the flag, but this one calls out for a slogan.

The guy on top is a Virginia state trooper, and the guy on the bottom has a Virginia driver's license.

Ch.G, Ch.G
Dec 28, 2011, 8:36 AM
I agree it's a pretty good flag. But it could be better. The problem with the seal is that while it may look great on your computer screen, it's impossible to make out from a distance in real life. Remembering the context is a big problem in flag design. These things have to be clear from far away.

The trick with seals is that you usually get a better result if you just pick one element from the seal, and focus on that. Here are two options I photoshopped that enlarge one thing from the seal and eliminate the rest. They're both better than the original flag. Both more iconic, more instantly identifiable, more easily reproducible.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7025/6581895641_73a7045024_z.jpg

:tup: This one is pretty great.

bunt_q
Dec 28, 2011, 8:07 PM
That looks like an Army engineers banner, not a city flag.

brickell
Dec 28, 2011, 9:29 PM
The trick with seals is that you usually get a better result if you just pick one element from the seal, and focus on that. Here are two options I photoshopped that enlarge one thing from the seal and eliminate the rest. They're both better than the original flag. Both more iconic, more instantly identifiable, more easily reproducible.



I don't mind seals, but the ones I'm thinking of are pretty simple anyway. But I think you're right.

Here's my take on a simplified Miami flag.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6590054447_8b4870238e_z.jpg

Centropolis
Dec 28, 2011, 9:45 PM
Here's my attempt at a new Illinois flag...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r112/texcolo/Illinois_Flag.jpg

The blue swatch in the upper right hand corner is Lake Michigan.

The white 6 sided star is Chicago.

The horizontal and vertical blue stripes are the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

The diagnal blue line is the Illinois River and canal.

The golden background represents the golden color of corn and wheat in the fields.


So... what is that empty box down there where the canal ends...East St. Louis? Cairo? Forgive me Lord.

I think the Illinois flag should say something like...

In Illinois, there were no mountains so man had to build them. Or whatever they always say. And then just have like some PCP-like vision of the John Hancock punching through a corn kernal in the shape of the death star.

texcolo
Dec 28, 2011, 11:26 PM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r112/texcolo/IllinoisFlag_002.jpg

Attempt #2:

A cross between the flags of Panama and Maryland. The stars repping Chicago, and the stripes signifying 'amber waves of grain.'

:D

Xelebes
Dec 28, 2011, 11:26 PM
Here is my version of the Alberta Flag if you are to remove the crest on blue. Colours could be touched up on, but it's a nice basic design.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8505/albertaflag.jpg

Steely Dan
Dec 29, 2011, 3:00 PM
the stripes signifying 'amber waves of grain.'

a nice idea for kansas perhaps, but illinois is primarily corn and soybean country. the agriculture here is far greener in color than the amber fields of wheat country further west.

Derek
Dec 29, 2011, 4:11 PM
I don't mind seals, but the ones I'm thinking of are pretty simple anyway. But I think you're right.

Here's my take on a simplified Miami flag.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6590054447_8b4870238e_z.jpg

That looks great. :D

vid
Dec 29, 2011, 6:24 PM
It looks like the flag of India, and I don't think of Indian people when I think of Miami.

Nowhereman1280
Dec 29, 2011, 7:24 PM
A good solution for the Illinois flag would be for Chicago to take over the whole state, rename it "Chicago" and then just adopt the Chicago flag. Chicago, Chicago, it's so nice they named it twice...

brickell
Dec 29, 2011, 8:13 PM
It looks like the flag of India, and I don't think of Indian people when I think of Miami.

Not the Lolz, but they make the same comparison
http://cheezburger.com/Seardu/lolz/View/2210688256


But the orange and green has a history in Miami. We ain't changing it!