Detroit's Most Infamous Landmark to Get a Facelift [Archive]

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hudkina

Mar 26, 2011, 12:24 AM

Most people on this site are well aware of Michigan Central Station, one of the world's most famous abandoned skyscrapers. It's been seen in multiple movies and music videos, is the most photoraphed spot in Detroit and every 20-something hipster views it as the Mount Everest of urban exploration. In many ways it's the story of Detroit. For the few posters that are unaware here is a picture:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3371/3600379605_37a8de5e9e_o.jpg
© All rights reserved by janoimagine (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wedrrc/)

In recent years the owner (who ironically is a billionaire) has finally gotten around to properly securing the building. Today the Detroit News is reporting that he is going one step further and giving the building a facelift. While it's not a full-on renovation, it's certainly a step in the right direction...

Here's the story from the Detroit News via Yahoo!:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_localdtw/20110325/ts_yblog_localdtw/decaying-central-depot-to-get-spruce-up

Decaying Central Depot to get spruce-up

Tom Greenwood, Detroit News staff writer

After decades of looking like a bombed-out relic, the iconic Michigan Central Train Depot is set to receive a mini face-lift.

Manuel "Matty" Moroun, owner of the depot and the Ambassador Bridge, will replace the roof and the windows on the once elegant 19-story building that has overlooked Michigan Avenue since 1913.

"We're applying with the city to replace the roof and the windows," said Dan Stamper, bridge company president.

"We're doing it because it would be much easier to help a developer to come up with a package to use the depot if some improvements were made … so that's what we're doing."

Stamper said it was too early to come up with an estimate for the repairs, but acknowledged it would be expensive.

"We have our engineers working on an estimate," he said.

Mayor Dave Bing's office confirmed the city has had preliminary talks with the bridge company about repairs to the depot.

"But that's about the extent of it so far," said Bing spokesman Dan Lijana.

"Obviously seeing improvements to the central depot to make it look more aesthetically pleasing is something we would certainly support. But they haven't pulled any permits as of yet. We await their next move."

Created by the same architects who designed Grand Central Station in New York City, the building at one time was the largest train station in the world and known for its rich decor.

Decline and decay pulled into the station soon after the last train departed in January 1988. Scrappers looted the building.

Over the years, several ideas have been pitched for the building, including a new police headquarters. None has panned out. Nor has a 2009 resolution from the City Council to demolish it.

Because of its look of urban decay, the depot has been used in several films, including "Transformers," "The Island," "Four Brothers" and "Eight Mile."

Steely Dan

Mar 26, 2011, 12:30 AM

YES!

Please, please, please let this magnificent edifice be saved.

fishrose

Mar 26, 2011, 12:53 AM

Holy shit... I never thought I'd see the day! :cheers::dancingbacon

ChiSoxRox

Mar 26, 2011, 1:11 AM

Great news, even if it's just a touch up. Buildings like this add so much character to a city that a glass box just can't replicate.

Clevelumbus

Mar 26, 2011, 1:47 AM

Great news! Should help lure developers, and if nothing else it will look good, and minimize any further damage. Yay!

hammersklavier

Mar 26, 2011, 3:04 AM

Great news!

I'd love to see that place used as a station again, too.

Seriously. If even 110-mph rail gets to Detroit, using the tunnel just beyond Michigan Central is also a good way of extending the line to Windsor. Canadian Pacific's thrown around the idea of shifting freight operations to the St. Clair tunnel, anyhow. Too bad VIA Rail's station is clear on the opposite side of the city...

ShadowMaster

Mar 26, 2011, 6:33 AM

This is very good news. It would of been sad if the continuation of decay occurred of such a wonderful structure.

peanut gallery

Mar 26, 2011, 7:05 AM

I am so happy to hear this. It would be a huge shame to lose this treasure, and an investment like this makes that so much less likely.

1ajs

Mar 26, 2011, 7:20 AM

when i read the blip from the front page i had my fingers crossed that it was this building yipi though just maintainince still something i gues they got the msg from people around the world that it should be kepted not to mention hate mail about how its been left to fall apart i would imagin

Kngkyle

Mar 26, 2011, 12:00 PM

Great news! Heres a photo I took of it about a year ago. The detail is awesome.
http://kngkyle.com/uploads/2011-03-26_0759.png

rockyi

Mar 26, 2011, 3:48 PM

:tomato: :cucumber: :banana: :pepper: Detroit needs some good news!

EuphoricOctopus

Mar 26, 2011, 4:09 PM

pdxwonderboy

Mar 26, 2011, 7:58 PM

wtf? Great we get windows and a roof. Can't wait until these tax payer windows (that this old ass billionaire needs funding for) to be broken in a couple of months. He just wants to look good so he can get support for his bridge because an 83 year old billionaire needs more power, money, and a bridge.

Nothing he does to this building affects the bridge whatsoever, the biggest obstacle is Windsor, who don't want his bridge at all.

relnahe

Mar 26, 2011, 8:18 PM

One of my favorite buildings! YES! Its too unfortunate that the owner (who's worth billions and owns other property in Detroit) is ruining Detroit by not rehabbing the property they own in the first place!

hudkina

Mar 26, 2011, 9:39 PM

wtf? Great we get windows and a roof. Can't wait until these tax payer windows (that this old ass billionaire needs funding for) to be broken in a couple of months. He just wants to look good so he can get support for his bridge because an 83 year old billionaire needs more power, money, and a bridge.

Uh... huh? None of the money is coming from tax payers... so not sure what you mean by that. Also, the building has been properly secured and I would assume that after this great investment, he will make an even greater effort to keep it secured. That might even include 24 hour on-site security...

1ajs

Mar 26, 2011, 9:44 PM

I bet people would fight to be the security gaurd of this gem

HomeInMyShoes

Mar 26, 2011, 9:51 PM

applause from the frozen North here

MolsonExport

Mar 26, 2011, 10:03 PM

Best piece of news I've heard in days.

arkitekte

Mar 26, 2011, 11:46 PM

That's some good news...too beautiful of a building to go to waste.

EuphoricOctopus

Mar 27, 2011, 9:54 AM

Nothing he does to this building affects the bridge whatsoever, the biggest obstacle is Windsor, who don't want his bridge at all.

Yeah I know this. Positive press would help get support for his bridge. That is all he really wants.

Uh... huh? None of the money is coming from tax payers... so not sure what you mean by that. Also, the building has been properly secured and I would assume that after this great investment, he will make an even greater effort to keep it secured. That might even include 24 hour on-site security...

Sorry, I misread that, but you think after owning the building for 15 years he'd keep it from decaying in the first place. The whole interior is completely destroyed. I highly doubt a developer is going to throw millions at a building that is isolated from its surroundings and from downtown because it has windows and a roof. Most likely what will happen is that it will continue to decay.

ametz

Mar 27, 2011, 8:55 PM

Looks like a great building that deserves a better fate than it's experienced, but how much would it cost to make it habitable, and is it realistic to expect to fill it any time soon? It looks gigantic.

Jasoncw

Mar 28, 2011, 1:45 AM

It would be pretty expensive.

But the building actually isn't that big, the tower portion is very broad in one direction, but it's really skinny, and it's not very tall. This is the space that you'd be able to rent out and get money for. It also has a large ornate base, which would be expensive to renovate, and which you couldn't really use for much.

It's not so expensive that it couldn't be done, but it wouldn't make any sense from an investment standpoint so it'll never be done.

My guess is that the only reason he owns it is because it's a large contiguous piece of property right next to a train tunnel that goes to Canada, and it's not very far away from his bridge to Canada.

Like the others said, he's trying to build another bridge to Canada, but the government's plan to build a bridge is winning, so he's started airing commercials, and now he's doing this, to try and influence the public and get his way.

CRE8IVEDESTRUCTION

Mar 28, 2011, 1:52 AM

This building is a true gem. I was hoping to explore the inside of the building next month but I guess I can't since its fenced off. SH!T!

hudkina

Mar 28, 2011, 2:05 AM

LMich

Mar 28, 2011, 4:05 AM

Rail>Auto

Mar 28, 2011, 4:25 PM

Good to hear... What are they planing on doing with the old Tiger Stadium lot across the street from this building?

Steely Dan

Mar 28, 2011, 5:26 PM

^ MCS and the former tiger stadium weren't exactly across the street from each other, but according to google maps, the latter is still just a baseball field that no longer has its stadium.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7876/mcsaj.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/mcsaj.jpg/)
source: google maps

Rizzo

Mar 28, 2011, 5:31 PM

Steely Dan

Mar 28, 2011, 5:35 PM

^ beggars can't be choosers. it ain't perfect, but a stabilization is better than continued utter neglect.

mhays

Mar 28, 2011, 7:11 PM

The best future this building has is as a Casino. The tower would make a perfect hotel, and the base would make a perfect gaming floor. The problem is that current law allows only three casinos. There has been a recent proposal to expand gaming to include up to two additional casinos in the city (as well as a few in other areas of the state) but I'm sure the current three would push back really hard against that.

That sounds about right. A casino might be the best hope.

To fully renovate a building like this would cost hundreds of millions. That's fine if rents will support it, which is often only true in a higher-rent city once a building has deteriorated significantly. Or if a massive subsidy is available. But a casino/hotel, with few competitors, just might support high rents. Being narrow, the building might be the right width for two hotel rooms and a hallway. It would be a regional icon with great marketing potential. There's plenty of room to expand the building footprint for a larger gaming floor and sizeable meeting space. The main hall could be lobby and a restaurant, and a grand space that would help sell the higher room rates.

mhays

Mar 28, 2011, 7:17 PM

I realize everyone is happy about this and so am I, but let's not get over-excited. Realize who we are dealing with here and why the building looks this way. If anything people here should be upset that these efforts will still further prolong the building's decay. We should still be pushing for a full fledged renovation, not a quick bandage to the problem.

It's true that replacing the windows and roof might be a step backward. Constructing these elements will require selective demolition and connections that may contribute to the degredation of the building. Further, a choice of window might be different depending on the future use. Even identical windows can have different specs that reflect the uses inside, or the team's other goals, such as sound and heat transfer, design life, etc.

Further, it's a complete certainty that they'll only know the cost of these replacements after they start doing the work. Replacing windows is a process of discovery window by window....you remove what's there, and then find out what's hidden around it. With a full renovation the crews would have leeway to solve each window frame individually, whatever that takes, but will that be the case here? And will the new framing be only enough for the temporary upgrade or also meet the standards of whatever new use comes later?

HomrQT

Mar 28, 2011, 7:24 PM

If this and the Book Tower could get some love, I think that'd be fantastic!

VivaLFuego

Mar 28, 2011, 9:54 PM

To fully renovate a building like this would cost hundreds of millions. That's fine if rents will support it, which is often only true in a higher-rent city once a building has deteriorated significantly. Or if a massive subsidy is available.
This is why some measure of stabilization seems like the best possible outcome. Market demand just isn't there, nor is any significant public subsidy.

But a casino/hotel, with few competitors, just might support high rents.
Yep... but, too bad about the giant new MGM Grand built 1/2 mile down the same street --- any demand there might have been to leverage to restore MCS as a hotel casino would seem to have been lost.

And no, there's not demand to support some new giant gambling district, either --- the Detroit area casino market is basically saturated between MGM, Greektown, Motor City, and Windsor, so any gambling expansion is more or less zero sum by now: any new casinos will be drawing demand from others. Maybe Detroit could keep some people from crossing the border to gamble, but otherwise, any extra demand will probably just be gobbled up through piecemeal expansions of the existing casinos.

Lecom

Mar 28, 2011, 10:18 PM

I get the replacement of the roof and applaud that, but what's the point of putting in new windows with not even a timeline for even a potential renovation? Do we forget why the building has no windows, already? Are they putting in new spandrels/frames, too? If they are going to go that far, why not just begin replacing the curtain wall, too?

A roof and windows would effectively seal off the interior from the elements, considerably slowing down the structure's decay by decades, if need be.

hudkina

Mar 28, 2011, 10:31 PM

Detroit + Windsor is one of the largest casino markets in North America, and that's with just four casinos. Even if a fifth casino didn't do much to expand the market, each location would still make a large chunk of money. Even then, I think Detroit could work to become even more of a Midwestern gaming destination. While just about every major metro area has casinos, there are only so many places that offer true Las Vegas-style resorts. You would have Las Vegas out west, Atlantic City back east, the Gulf Coast down south, and Detroit up north.;)

LMich

Mar 29, 2011, 2:13 AM

A roof and windows would effectively seal off the interior from the elements, considerably slowing down the structure's decay by decades, if need be.

I'm not completely familiar with the interior, but my point was that that ship has already sailed. It's already been open to the elements for so long that any renovation will have to be a full reconstruction, anyway.

Furthermore, what's the point of praising a multi-millionaire for finally saying that he's going to seal up a property he's allowed to sit open to the elements and squatters and explorers for years, a property in which he allowed in the very first place for every single window to be broken? It seems very counter-intuitive to view this as anything more than the most tacky and ineffective of band-aids. Just my opinion, but while this isn't bad news, it most certainly isn't what some of you are hailing it as. To me, this is like watching some slumlord allowing one of his properties to burndown, and then only calling 911 a few days after the fire when the property has basically been rendered worthless.

The actual train station section of the building is not beyond repair, but the tower's basically going to need to be totally rebuilt from the inside out.

Matthew

Mar 29, 2011, 3:52 AM

Rizzo

Mar 29, 2011, 4:34 AM

^ beggars can't be choosers. it ain't perfect, but a stabilization is better than continued utter neglect.

I wish that was true. Unfortunately there's far more to the story that isn't well understood here, and probably will not be told here either. I think in the end, alot of people will be disappointed.

LMich tells the basics of the story here.

Rizzo

Mar 29, 2011, 4:37 AM

I was informed a year or two ago: The concrete floors are crumbling on the upper floors of the tower, due to exposure to the elements.

I do hope someone will buy it and restore it. This is an amazing building. I looked through some of the blueprints for this building a year or so ago and it was impressive when it opened. I would like to see it restored to that level of grandeur again. If the floors are crumbling, it could be too expensive to restore though?

Crumbling floors is true, but what's crumbling isn't what is holding the building up. It's all steel encased in concrete. It will certainly be an inconvenient cost to replace and repair floor slabs that could have otherwise been avoided.

mhays

Mar 29, 2011, 6:03 AM

Depends. Crumbling concrete can mean rusting rebar. If there's a lot of it that'll weaken the building. I'm guessing, but fixing it might mean a combination of slab repair plus structural reinforcements. Possibly a much larger gut than otherwise needed.

This sort of thing is how a renovation can be a lot more expensive than new construction.

hudkina

Mar 29, 2011, 6:42 AM

This building was built before rebar. It is a steel skeleton, and an overbuilt one at that. When it was designed, steel structures were still relatively new, so the structural integrity of the building is sound.

mhays

Mar 29, 2011, 3:56 PM

Sounds like good news structurally. Still need to make the pieces stable but that's probably a lot less difficult. (Caveat...though I work for a contractor that does big renovations, I'm just the proposal writer!)

Matthew

Mar 29, 2011, 10:07 PM

I thought the floor slabs contained 500 tons of rebar? I seem to remember around 500 tons of rebar and 5,000 cubic yards of concrete? The load on the tower's support columns is 600 tons each, due to the weight.

Restoring this structure accurately is a money losing effort. I'm guessing it will take someone who loves Detroit and has enough of their own money to take most of the loses to make this work. I do hope that person steps forward.

Steely Dan

Mar 29, 2011, 10:27 PM

I wish that was true.
so, let me get this straight, you think that letting the building continue to rot would be more beneficial to its long-term survival than sealing up the building envelope (new roof and windows) to help keep further water damage out?

i'm incapable of understanding that kind of logic unless you can explain your position more clearly for me.

Rizzo

Mar 30, 2011, 6:55 AM

so, let me get this straight, you think that letting the building continue to rot would be more beneficial to its long-term survival than sealing up the building envelope (new roof and windows) to help keep further water damage out?

i'm incapable of understanding that kind of logic unless you can explain your position more clearly for me.

Windows and a new roof are only part of the solution to preventing moisture infiltration. That ignores the remainder of the facade, which still provides plenty of penetration. Even with windows, the damage is already at its worse.

Based on the maintenance track record, and worsened conditions since the current owner took over, I think it's a perfectly good example of why many of us locals (former local for me) remain skeptical of these improvements. It doesn't mean the owner has acted from time to time. He has by building a new fence and sealing openings, but not at the rate that has prevented thousands of people from entering.

Now, I need to understand the logic from others

Who will maintain these windows
Who will repair them when they are broken
Who will repair the roof
How often will all these repairs be made?

Here's the rules to these answers:
It cannot be volunteer high school students. http://www.mesotheliomaweb.org/nov200905a.htm

Things that go unwatched in Detroit do not last.

Steely Dan

Mar 30, 2011, 1:57 PM

^ so you think it's better for the long-term survival of this structure that the owner do absolutely nothing at all and let the building deteriorate full speed ahead instead of making these proposed roof and window improvements? interesting, but i still don't follow.

if you have major gash on your arm, a small incomplete bandage that only stops some of the bleeding is still better than absolutely no bandage at all.

anyway, at this point we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

ardecila

Mar 30, 2011, 2:44 PM

All of it is pointless if Maroun continues to own the station. He has shown repeatedly that he's not committed to preserving the building. This latest push to replace the roof and windows is stupid, because without a dedicated owner willing to do periodic maintenance, new roofs and windows don't do squat.

Since Maroun is such a major tool, the future of the building is still just as tenuous as it appeared a few months ago. The only good thing to come out of this is that Detroit's roofers and window guys will have lots of work.

LMich

Mar 31, 2011, 7:44 AM

interesting, but i still don't follow.

This ain't a gash, the thing's got gangrene; it's already gone. What is there not to get? The tower portion is going to have to be rebuilt, from inside and out, period. A new roof and new windows isn't going to change that. The train station portion will be relatively easy to redo; the tower is to the point where it'd almost make sense to tear it down and reconstruct a new tower adjacent to the station if even needed. It probably make more sense to reuse the frame and just clad the thing in glass.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5520094574_270635f4aa_b.jpg
Mark The Kid (http://www.flickr.com/photos/detroitmi97/5520094574/sizes/l/in/pool-70057581@N00/)

mthq

Mar 31, 2011, 8:04 AM

I'm sure at least the shell of the building could be saved. I'm reminded of the Reichstag which was set on fire in the 30's, bombed out in the 40's, and left to decay for much of the rest of the 20th century until Reunification. While the inside has been gutted out, the exterior remains the same.

Post WWII
http://www.madteam1.com/old_images/reichstag.jpg
madteam1.com

Since 1999:
http://archide.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/reichstag3.jpg
archide.wordpress.com

http://mirage.geckoandfly.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads2/2008/06/bundestag_berlin_parliament_norman_foster_reichstag2.jpg
blog.miragestudio7.com

mhays

Mar 31, 2011, 3:51 PM

I bet they spent something astonishing per square foot, probably multiples of what would make sense for any commercial use to pencil.

Steely Dan

Mar 31, 2011, 3:55 PM

This ain't a gash, the thing's got gangrene; it's already gone. What is there not to get? The tower portion is going to have to be rebuilt, from inside and out, period.
i didn't realize that the tower portion is so far gone that there's no way to save its internal structure. if the tower will have to be entirely torn down and rebuilt anyway, then yes, new windows and roof are a waste. but i can't imagine anyone in their right mind would shell out the millions of dollars necessary for a new roof and windows if the structure itself is too far gone to be saved and will just have to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up at some point in the future.

Young Gun

Mar 31, 2011, 4:06 PM

i didn't realize that the tower portion is so far gone that there's no way to save its internal structure. if the tower will have to be entirely torn down and rebuilt anyway, then yes, new windows and roof are a waste. but i can't imagine anyone in their right mind would shell out the millions of dollars necessary for a new roof and windows if the structure itself is too far gone to be saved and will just have to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up at some point in the future.

New windows would preserve the steel skelton, cladding has to be a fraction of the total cost to erect the skeleton.

Steely Dan

Mar 31, 2011, 4:13 PM

^ that's what i would think too, but people here are saying that even the basic underlying structure of the tower portion is too far gone to be saved in any way, so sealing the envelope from water penetration becomes moot if the only possible outcomes for the tower portion are demolition or collapse.

PHL10

Mar 31, 2011, 6:12 PM

I'm sure at least the shell of the building could be saved. I'm reminded of the Reichstag which was set on fire in the 30's, bombed out in the 40's, and left to decay for much of the rest of the 20th century until Reunification. While the inside has been gutted out, the exterior remains the same.

Now only if the Michigan Central Station was actually the historic former US Capitol Building and was located in Washington DC instead of being a defunct rail terminal in the outskirts of DT Detroit, your example might have merit.:)

Wigs

Apr 5, 2011, 7:20 PM

Detroit needs a citizens group to organize and buy up the property and take action ala Buffalo's Central Terminal: http://buffalocentralterminal.org/
They host weddings, Dyngus Day, Oktoberfest and a bunch of other events in the old terminal building to bring in some money and awareness to the structure.

mhays

Apr 5, 2011, 7:32 PM

Probably not. Getting the main level up to occupancy code would cost many millions, including securing the pieces and finishes from falling, adding working restrooms, adding power, etc. That sort of thing can work in a mostly viable building, but not this one.

Even is someone fronted the money, hosting events wouldn't have a very promising payback rate.