A sunny week in Portland, Oregon

[cityscapes]

I left rainy South Florida for sunny Portland, Oregon. There is something wrong about that sentence. I could not have asked for better weather during my week long visit in Portland. It made for some great picture taking and I hope you all like them!

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Downtown Vancouver, WA

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Lake Oswego, OR

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Mt. Hood and the transition between green forests to desert.

I hope you the pictures and that I didn't post too many! :)

[ue]

Umm ummm :slob: .

:tup: :tup: Good work! You captured the city so nicely. Portland has got to be one of the best cities in the US. Thank you for the tour, I love how you captured all sorts of parts of the city. It is just an amazing city.

You captured some great urban scenes ... and VERRY tastefully. You're making me anxious to go this summer.

[Pacificoduck]

great pictures, i enjoyed every single one of them. no way were there too many, the more the merrier :tup:

[Sekkle]

Nice work!

[OhioGuy]

They certainly have created a wonderful city. And you've created a wonderful thread. Nice effort on these photos. I enjoyed viewing them immensely! :)

[Wheelingman04]

More cities should use Portland as a model.

[Kingofthehill]

Such a gorgeous city, one not only filled with awesome (well..common sense, really) pedestrian and transit-friendly ordinances/legislation, but killer infill as well. These photos have to be amount to what is, without doubt or question, one of the more thorough and comprehensive PDX tours.

Now that I'm sold, I'm going to try and squeeze Portland into my Fall '09 travel lineup -- by any means necessary.

[ShadowMaster]

This is why Portland is one of my American favorites..

[Buckeye Native 001]

Fantastic photos of a fantastic city. That happy face in the street (with rose petals?) is inspired :tup:

[stepper77]

Portland, as always, looks great. Your photos capture it well. Thanks!

[Swinefeld]

Great city.

[MarkDaMan]

you made it all over! Thanks for sharing, great thread.

[ady26]

Great trip, thanks!

[Chicago3rd]

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Mt. Hood and the transition between green forests to desert.

I hope you the pictures and that I didn't post too many! :)

The Mountain on the right is Mt. Jefferson (it is about 50 miles south of Mt. Hood). It is east of Salem and can be seen on a clear day from the top of Council Crest in Portland. Following it to the left (south) is Three Finger Jack, Mt. Washington and then at least two of the Three Sisters.

What beautiful weather you had and you took so many great photos!!!

[Cirrus]

Very nice, although (having never been there) Pioneer Square looks very ordinary. I'm not sure I understand why it's cited so frequently as a model.

[puerco]

Thanks for the great photos. You really captured Portland at its best.

[sopas ej]

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This sign caught my eye:

"Persian House Mediterranean Cuisine?" So which is it? Is it Persian, or Mediterranean?

I ask/wonder only because I like both cuisines.

[SpongeG]

great pics great city

[JordanL]

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This sign caught my eye:

"Persian House Mediterranean Cuisine?" So which is it? Is it Persian, or Mediterranean?

I ask/wonder only because I like both cuisines.

You know that Persia is in the Mediterranean, right?

[Chicago3rd]

Very nice, although (having never been there) Pioneer Square looks very ordinary. I'm not sure I understand why it's cited so frequently as a model.

Wow...an opinion like that based on one photo? Here are some links about it.

http://www.pioneercourthousesquare.org/
Located in the heart of downtown Portland, Pioneer Courthouse Square is affectionately known as the City's "living room." With more than 26,000 people passing by the Square each day, and thousands more visiting the Square directly, it is the single most visited site in Oregon's most visited city.

The Square is one of Portland's leading outdoor venues, hosting over 300 events each year that range from large-scale concerts to cultural festivals. The Square is a true symbol of Portland with its bricks symbolizing the people that make Portland such an extraordinary city.

Take a look at this....see what could have happened to this block located in the heart of PDX...see what happened....history is such a marvelous thing.

http://www.pioneercourthousesquare.org/history.htm (study this....see what could have happened to this block located in the heart of PDX...see what happened).

1951: Meier & Frank purchased the block, razed the hotel, and built a two-level parking structure.

Much of the original stone foundation for the Portland Hotel remains under the sidewalks

Late 1960s: Meier & Frank proposed an 11-story parking garage on the block, which was denied by the City after a series of heated public hearings. This proposal, perhaps more than any other event, prompted both the downtown business community and the City to undertake a comprehensive downtown planning program.

1972 – 1974: Portland's Downtown Plan proposed open space development of the current Pioneer Courthouse Square block. This plan set in motion the lengthy administrative and political negotiations that resulted in the purchase of the block by the City, the international design competition, and the choice of the Will Martin design scheme.

April 6, 1984: A Square is Born! Pioneer Courthouse Square opens.

Some people who may have a little more insight into the square than viewing one photo:

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2008/10/06/daily42.html

Pioneer Courthouse Square is one of the country’s great public spaces, according to the 2008 edition of the American Planning Association’s annual 10 Great Public Spaces list.

The association selected Pioneer Courthouse Square for its central location in downtown Portland, its role as a public gathering space and its proximity to public transit.

“Portland is rightfully proud of its livability and commitment to community engagement. Nothing exemplifies this more than our downtown living room, Pioneer Courthouse Square,” said Portland City Commissioner Dan Saltzman.

The city acquired the former parking lot site from Meier & Frank around 1980 and later developed it into the wide open public space where people gather today. Officials estimate it attracts 26,000 people a day, and 10 million per year.

The other 2008 Great Public Spaces are:

• Yavapai County Courthouse Plaza, Prescott, Ariz.

• Santa Monica Beach, Santa Monica, Calif.

• Union Station, Washington, D.C.

• Central Park, New York City.

• West Side Market, Cleveland, Ohio.

• Mellon Square, Pittsburgh, Penn.

• Waterplace Park, Providence, R.I.

• Waterfront Park, Charleston, S.C.

• Church Street Marketplace, Burlington, Vt..

And I even googled photos for you:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLM&q=pioneer%20courthouse%20square%20portland%20or&revid=1685450969&ei=nSklSvbfDKbyswO83tCgBg&resnum=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[sopas ej]

• Santa Monica Beach, Santa Monica, Calif.

Interesting, I never thought of Santa Monica Beach as a great public space per se; it's a beach.

[sopas ej]

You know that Persia is in the Mediterranean, right?

Hmm. I guess because when I think of "Persia," I think of modern-day Iran, which of course, is NOT on the Mediterranean. Here in LA, those people refer to themselves as Persians, not Iranians. In LA, we have plenty of Persian restaurants, but of course it's Iranian cuisine.

In all fairness, I guess the ancient Persian Empire did reach the Mediterranean... but I think that's stretching it.

[Cirrus]

Wow...an opinion like that based on one photo? Here are some links about it. Some people who may have a little more insight into the square than viewing one photo:First of all, we've all seen more than one photo. Secondly, I didn't say it's a terrible place; I said I didn't understand why it gets so much attention compared to other similar squares around the country, which implies that I want to understand. You don't need to take offense and get all worked up. I'm asking a question, for goodness sake.

As an example of what I'm asking, take a look at this image of a plaza in Baltimore (http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=qjdwh08mg1qp&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=7164016&encType=1). As you can see, it has virtually all the same elements as Pioneer Square. Large empty expanses of red pavers, circular amphitheatre, a vertical colonnade (flags in Baltimore instead of columns, but the concept is the same), even a brutalist water feature. And although the Baltimore picture seems to be from the early morning, I guarantee that at peak times of day that plaza is filled with just as many people, vendor carts, and performers.

So if they have similar stuff, what's so much more special about Pioneer Square than the Baltimore plaza, that one is frequently cited as a model while the other is not?

Despite the unnecessary hostility, your answer did help somewhat:

The location quote suggests it's the location not the design that deserves most of the credit. That's a perfectly good explanation for why it's so busy, but it doesn't answer the question of why the square gets so much national attention from urban design types.

The history is interesting. Maybe the fact that this is a new square rather than a City Beautiful-era one is why it's called out. That certainly makes a lot of sense, since it would be a model not for the physical urban design of the square per se (pavers, colonnade, amphitheater), but for the concept that it is possible to create good urban parks in the modern era. In that sense, the lessons are useful.

Citing the APA was completely useless, though (which I say as a full member of the APA). I *already know* the square gets a lot of attention. I was asking *why*.

[Cirrus]

Just to clarify, in case anyone is still confused, I am not saying that Pioneer Square doesn't deserve to be called a great place. I am saying that the phsyical design and layout of the square itself appears to be fairly unextraordinary, so I am asking whether there's something else about it (such as location and history) that make it especially noteworthy.

[Eagle rock]

Pioneer Courthouse square is noteworthy and famous because it represents Portland’s commitment to planning around people and not cars. The square was developed in the 1980s on a site that was formally a surface parking lot. It was one of the major steps in the revitalization of downtown Portland and creating a more urban pedestrian oriented city. All of this might sound like not a big deal today, but you have to realize that in the 80’s many cities were still knocking down historic neighborhoods to build malls and freeways and so many public spaces built at the time and even today are semi fortified no man lands.

Pioneer Square may not have the wow factor of a place like Millennium Park (which I would argue is not as successful) but it functions extremely well as a public space incorporating an amphitheater, retail space, transit stops, and programmable open space all in a tight 200 x 200 ft block. The space is also filled year round with people playing chess, eating lunch, and just hanging out which is especially notable considering Portland’s climate.

[Okstate]

Just an interesting tidbit: We also have a live newscast 3 times a day from the square with our NBC affiliate. A Travel Portland info store is located within the square as well.

-I think the transit aspect surrounding the square (now on 3 sides) is a huge boost to its popularity.

[downtownpdx]

Pioneer Courthouse square is noteworthy and famous because it represents Portland’s commitment to planning around people and not cars. The square was developed in the 1980s on a site that was formally a surface parking lot. It was one of the major steps in the revitalization of downtown Portland and creating a more urban pedestrian oriented city. All of this might sound like not a big deal today, but you have to realize that in the 80’s many cities were still knocking down historic neighborhoods to build malls and freeways and so many public spaces built at the time and even today are semi fortified no man lands.

Pioneer Square may not have the wow factor of a place like Millennium Park (which I would argue is not as successful) but it functions extremely well as a public space incorporating an amphitheater, retail space, transit stops, and programmable open space all in a tight 200 x 200 ft block. The space is also filled year round with people playing chess, eating lunch, and just hanging out which is especially notable considering Portland’s climate.

Well said. I think that while there are lots of great things about this square, one of the best is that it was created in an 'out with old, in with the new,' auto-oriented era.

[Chicago3rd]

Very nice, although (having never been there) Pioneer Square looks very ordinary. I'm not sure I understand why it's cited so frequently as a model.

Lol. I still cannot see the question mark......"?"

"What are the reasons the square gets cited so frequently as a model?"

Take it Private......

[Cirrus]

Yeah, notice how I carefully insinuated that I didn't really know what I was talking about by being very clear that I'd never been there and that I'm "not sure" about what I think. Do you think I'd have qualified my statements in that manner if my intention was to attack?

[peanut gallery]

Nice photos! Portland has a lot going for it.

[ItsConanOBrien]

Great shots! I admire a lot about this city.

[mSeattle]

Very impressive city photos.

[Omaharocks]

Cirrus,

I would say that much of Pioneer square's appeal stems from location - directly on the north side of the square, the MAX trains run westward and on the south, the MAX trains run east. This gives it a perfect point as a central square, and is surrounded by the shopping core of Portland. It is also kept extremely clean. You are correct though that it is not particularly ornate, and there isn't any lushly landscaped greenspace, but it functions well nonetheless.

[JordanL]

Cirrus:

PCS is extremely functional, and very versitle, and also very central, and those are what make it special. The design isn't terrible either... it has an amphitheater, it has public art, it has sweeping steps, it has open space, it has a starbucks and a visitors center, and it has a TV studio...

People use it all the time. You can get there and have an impromptu protest if you like (and people often do). There's small local concerts held there. We have a local beer tasting festival held there. The Trailblazers NBA team holds rallys there, and this year televised away playoff games on a giant portable screen. It's used to transfer transit modes, it's used to play chess, it's used to eat lunch, it's used for hacky sack and freedom of speech (there's always a person of some religion there trying to reach out).

It also has one of the most entertaining sign posts I've ever seen... but it's a icon of Portland for all these things put together, and the city takes care of it, and it takes care of the city.

I don't think we can really explain it to you much better without you going there.

[Okstate]

I'm not trying to sidetrack this thread at all but in all seriousness, Cirrus, could you name some U.S. Public plazas that you deem worthy of such recognition?

[Capsule F]

Cirrus, you should know better then to not agree fully with what people say about Portland around here. We all know that if you haven't been there 1000 times, even though you are an architect and much more well traveled then any of the naysayers, you obviously still don't know what you are talking about.

That being said, the city looks great in these pics.

[JordanL]

Cirrus, you should know better then to not agree fully with what people say about Portland around here. We all know that if you haven't been there 1000 times, even though you are an architect and much more well traveled then any of the naysayers, you obviously still don't know what you are talking about.

That being said, the city looks great in these pics.

What exactly is your problem? The last time anyone mentioned Portland you got the thread locked by being a dick.

[Okstate]

Cirrus, you should know better then to not agree fully with what people say about Portland around here. We all know that if you haven't been there 1000 times, even though you are an architect and much more well traveled then any of the naysayers, you obviously still don't know what you are talking about.

That being said, the city looks great in these pics.

-Then should be "than".
-Noone told Cirrus to agree with anything.
-We all know...what?
-Architect/well traveled= MUST know what you're talking about?

Cirrus doesn't need people like you to come to his defense. He's a smart guy that can handle his own. Being defensive about one's city does not imply anything about an individual. Success in urban planning is in the outcome...Portland is faring quite well in that regard whether a person "understands" it or not.

[Cirrus]

I really think some of you are taking my comments too defensively. Let me reiterate again that I am not suggesting Pioneer Square isn't a good square. I am saying there are lots of good squares all around the country, many of which are extremely active, and that I want to know what makes Pioneer Square special compared to others that seem to function just as well, but don't get the press.

Off the top of my head from just a few cities I'm familiar with: Rittenhouse in Philadelphia, Bryant, Madison, Union, Washington in New York, Dupont, Farragut, McPherson, Lafayette in Washington, and Union in San Francisco are all fabulous squares with plenty of activity. Why isn't APA citing them as best practices to be emulated? Some of them (like the Inner Harbor square in Baltimore I linked to above) have virtually identical elements as Pioneer Square.

So I'm not so much questioning why Pioneer Square is a model as much as I'm questioning why other equally successful squares aren't.

I think the most important answer is that Pioneer Square is 100% the result of contemporary American planning. Most of the squares I listed above (with at least one exception) have been parks for over a century. We can learn some lessons about urban design from them, but they can't inform us how to build a successful square from scratch using the tools and politics available in contemporary planning. That strikes me as the main difference. The big lesson to be learned from Pioneer Square is NOT that red pavers and columns make a great square (that part isn't special), but is instead that if you have the vision, the will, and a healthy urban culture, it is possible to create great public spaces even in this, the post-car era.

SO, let's move the discussion along. Instead of asking me why or how I could possibly question Portland's greatness, how about we talk about whether or not the answer I have received so far - that the big lesson of Pioneer Square is that it's contemporary - is or is not the correct lesson.

[Capsule F]

-Then should be "than".
-Noone told Cirrus to agree with anything.
-We all know...what?
-Architect/well traveled= MUST know what you're talking about?

Cirrus doesn't need people like you to come to his defense. He's a smart guy that can handle his own. Being defensive about one's city does not imply anything about an individual. Success in urban planning is in the outcome...Portland is faring quite well in that regard whether a person "understands" it or not.

And he needs people like you to come to his defense?

Did anyone ever say it was a bad square?

[Eagle rock]

I think the most important answer is that Pioneer Square is 100% the result of contemporary American planning. Most of the squares I listed above (with at least one exception) have been parks for over a century. We can learn some lessons about urban design from them, but they can't inform us how to build a successful square from scratch using the tools and politics available in contemporary planning. That strikes me as the main difference. The big lesson to be learned from Pioneer Square is NOT that red pavers and columns make a great square (that part isn't special), but is instead that if you have the vision, the will, and a healthy urban culture, it is possible to create great public spaces even in this, the post-car era.

This is exactly why Pioner Square is successfull and so well known. Also, alot of the squares you mentioned such as Bryant Park and Washington Square in New York had major design upgrades in the 90's to make them more active and alot of the design ideas used in those remodels were similar to those used in Pioner Courhouse Square such as having programable space, places to buy food, and more seating.

Union Square I would argue is not very successfull being really cluttered and having entrances to an underground parking garage.

[STLeric]

WOW! What a nice city. That Forest to desert shot was awesome. :tup:

[rousseau]

You know that Persia is in the Mediterranean, right?
It's for the nuggets of wisdom like these that I come to SSP. We know that Persia extended west to the Mediterranean and up into Asia Minor over 2,000 years ago. How about today, though? Are Israel, Lebanon and Turkey, Mediterranean nations all, and in that aspect in pointed contrast to Iran, which is not, currently considered Persian?

Do tell.

[dktshb]

Such a pretty day and such gorgeous shots! Thanks for posting.

[JordanL]

It's for the nuggets of wisdom like these that I come to SSP. We know that Persia extended west to the Mediterranean and up into Asia Minor over 2,000 years ago. How about today, though? Are Israel, Lebanon and Turkey, Mediterranean nations all, and in that aspect in pointed contrast to Iran, which is not, currently considered Persian?

Do tell.

I guess Iran = Persia then?

[sopas ej]

I guess Iran = Persia then?

Yes it does. And as someone who knows a lot of Persians, I will vouch for them.

[Dan Denson]

During my last visit to Portland I was just amazed at the beautiful natural setting. The city certainly photographs well in that respect. The downside seems to be that once you're out of certain nice or interesting areas, there are vast bland, not so well maintained areas (mainly to the east of downtown) that seem to spread for 20 miles. But what bothered me most was seeing where residents disrepect their city and leave their litter and graffiti for the rest to clean up. That seems to be an American phenomenon, not just a Portland problem. It's just that I was expecting Portland not to have that issue.

Overall, though, Portland certainly has a lot going for it.

[sopas ej]

I've never been to Portland but it looks very nice and interesting. People I know who've been there say it's a very nice city. And to think that only a little more than a generation ago, it was considered to be just a blue-collar river town.

[Thundertubs]

Nice shots!

[Jularc]

One of my favorite cities. I need to go back to visit! :cool:

[Okstate]

The downside seems to be that once you're out of certain nice or interesting areas, there are vast bland, not so well maintained areas (mainly to the east of downtown) that seem to spread for 20 miles.

I hear Beaverton is quite nice & not so bland. :yes: By the way..putting the "eastside" (no matter where) alongside the word "bland" is the purest example of an oxymoron.

[Chicago3rd]

I really think some of you are taking my comments too defensively. Let me reiterate again that I am not suggesting Pioneer Square isn't a good square. I am saying there are lots of good squares all around the country, many of which are extremely active, and that I want to know what makes Pioneer Square special compared to others that seem to function just as well, but don't get the press.

Off the top of my head from just a few cities I'm familiar with: Rittenhouse in Philadelphia, Bryant, Madison, Union, Washington in New York, Dupont, Farragut, McPherson, Lafayette in Washington, and Union in San Francisco are all fabulous squares with plenty of activity. Why isn't APA citing them as best practices to be emulated? Some of them (like the Inner Harbor square in Baltimore I linked to above) have virtually identical elements as Pioneer Square.

So I'm not so much questioning why Pioneer Square is a model as much as I'm questioning why other equally successful squares aren't.

I think the most important answer is that Pioneer Square is 100% the result of contemporary American planning. Most of the squares I listed above (with at least one exception) have been parks for over a century. We can learn some lessons about urban design from them, but they can't inform us how to build a successful square from scratch using the tools and politics available in contemporary planning. That strikes me as the main difference. The big lesson to be learned from Pioneer Square is NOT that red pavers and columns make a great square (that part isn't special), but is instead that if you have the vision, the will, and a healthy urban culture, it is possible to create great public spaces even in this, the post-car era.

SO, let's move the discussion along. Instead of asking me why or how I could possibly question Portland's greatness, how about we talk about whether or not the answer I have received so far - that the big lesson of Pioneer Square is that it's contemporary - is or is not the correct lesson.

Think it is a timing thing. Look at when it was built...planning started before that. So let's say early 70's. Portland's downtown was dying. It didn't have anything to match the places you brought up. But it was built...against the wave of inner city exodus...it was built where a garage had been (ironic?) and it was one of the first main pieces of urban renewal (which we all know Portland has done a fantastic job at...relative to other car oriented cities it's size) that actually worked and help to breath life back into the city. It is the heart. Created from a parking garage that PDX hadn't had in decades...and around it....grew shopping/eating/entertainment/transportation.

[Roaming]

Now this is a very beautiful city! :tup: