[Halifax] The Roy Halifax | 71 m | 22 fl | Completed

[OldDartmouthMark]

Is that from the Maritime Center?
Had a friend in Centennial Bldg take this for Me.

As always, from http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/
http://24.media.tumblr.com/96edee9afc82b4bda8866ade6e57a6a6/tumblr_n5mae8yszS1skleqro1_1280.jpg

Wow... seeing that still kinda gives me the shivers. I mean, I'm sure all the loading calculations have been done and I know that this procedure is done all the time, but I still can't get my head around the ability of that building to support such a dynamic load while it's being disassembled. After all, the stresses on the beams will change every time an adjacent beam/column is removed and those excavators weigh a little more than a feather.

Great photos though! :tup:

[Drybrain]

Wow... seeing that still kinda gives me the shivers. I mean, I'm sure all the loading calculations have been done and I know that this procedure is done all the time, but I still can't get my head around the ability of that building to support such a dynamic load while it's being disassembled. After all, the stresses on the beams will change every time an adjacent beam/column is removed and those excavators weigh a little more than a feather.

Great photos though! :tup:

I'd be nervous too if I were up there on the roof, but brick-and-beam industrial architecture is sturdy stuff.

[Jonovision]

We've lost sight of the building.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10314028_10100382986135459_2950334986312487498_n.jpg

[haligonia]

It is so nice to feel change happening on Barrington. Right now the street is a bit of a mess, but seeing all of this construction means that in ~5 years the street should be in great shape. The Roy, the old CD Plus site, Espace (I can't wait to see the tenants!), an updated Khyber, NFB and possibly the Discovery Centre site. Things are looking up!

[ns_kid]

We've lost sight of the building.

Was that you, Jono, the young fearless fellow I saw standing in the middle of Granville Street yesterday snapping this view of the Roy? No risk is too great for a good shot :)

Speaking of risk, watching the demolition on the roof of the Roy has been fascinating the last few days. It's mostly consisted of two or three guys dropping roofing materials and debris down a big hole, maybe 10 sq. ft., they opened up in the roof. At this rate they'll be done by Christmas. :D Less amusing is that much of the time they're working without safety harnesses.

[Ziobrop]

Was that you, Jono, the young fearless fellow I saw standing in the middle of Granville Street yesterday snapping this view of the Roy? No risk is too great for a good shot :)

Speaking of risk, watching the demolition on the roof of the Roy has been fascinating the last few days. It's mostly consisted of two or three guys dropping roofing materials and debris down a big hole, maybe 10 sq. ft., they opened up in the roof. At this rate they'll be done by Christmas. :D Less amusing is that much of the time they're working without safety harnesses.

Where Do you have a view from?

regarding the fall protection - that too is a pet peeve of mine. I report it when i see it - Either to Dept of Labor or the site office.

[musicman]

Fall arrest protection is not mandated or legally needed in all cases of working at height. You only need it if you are within a certain distance of a fall hazard or if there is no other fall protection equipment.. IE scaff around a building of fences to prevent falls.. So these workers could be well within the law.

[Jonovision]

Was that you, Jono, the young fearless fellow I saw standing in the middle of Granville Street yesterday snapping this view of the Roy? No risk is too great for a good shot :)

Speaking of risk, watching the demolition on the roof of the Roy has been fascinating the last few days. It's mostly consisted of two or three guys dropping roofing materials and debris down a big hole, maybe 10 sq. ft., they opened up in the roof. At this rate they'll be done by Christmas. :D Less amusing is that much of the time they're working without safety harnesses.

Not this time. I was on the sidewalk.

[ns_kid]

Fall arrest protection is not mandated or legally needed in all cases of working at height. You only need it if you are within a certain distance of a fall hazard or if there is no other fall protection equipment.. IE scaff around a building of fences to prevent falls.. So these workers could be well within the law.

Understood. My view is from the top floors of the Maritime Centre, aided by binoculars. It seems to me that tearing up roofing materials along the unguarded edge of the roof (there is no railing or scaffolding along the south side), then carrying the material to the lip of a big hole and throwing it in, likely meets the definition of a fall hazard.

http://www.novascotia.ca/just/regulations/regs/ohsworkplace.htm#TOC1_20

Ziobrop is right: if I witness again I will refer to LAE.

[Ziobrop]

Understood. My view is from the top floors of the Maritime Centre, aided by binoculars. It seems to me that tearing up roofing materials along the unguarded edge of the roof (there is no railing or scaffolding along the south side), then carrying the material to the lip of a big hole and throwing it in, likely meets the definition of a fall hazard.

http://www.novascotia.ca/just/regulations/regs/ohsworkplace.htm#TOC1_20

Ziobrop is right: if I witness again I will refer to LAE.

Musicman is also Correct - they are probably fine on the sides of the building, however if their is no rail around the hole, they should be tied off.

[Ziobrop]

they must read the forum..
2 guys up their today, properly tied off.
from buildingtheroy.tumblr.com (http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/)
he is using some kind of gas powered saw, not taking a leak as it appears in the photo.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/001f686e9f9e717cb689f6679ad299f2/tumblr_n5vvjgw82z1skleqro1_1280.jpg

[Ziobrop]

The top floor is now 90% gone

Photo from http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com

http://37.media.tumblr.com/83f169094eb950b829dbb79a75fda4f9/tumblr_n6razuiV0n1skleqro1_1280.jpg

[Duff]

One from today.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2929/14220657430_fc4a098e2c_b.jpg

[Ziobrop]

A Couple of floors are now gone, and I'm Starting to get a view
See more at http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/

http://38.media.tumblr.com/640bb545b338b8082bc0c50502290be1/tumblr_n7h528YoRV1skleqro1_1280.jpg

[ns_kid]

The top three floors of the Roy Building are now mostly a memory.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2917/14338567608_de082a24bb_o.jpg

[fenwick16]

Great shot ns_kid. So they are only 3 storeys above Barrington Street.

[Keith P.]

Interesting to see the bricked-over window detail there. Is the north-side wall we see with those wondow openings - some bricked-up, a couple with some white-colored material, and one still with glass- a remnant of the Roy that still stands or is it part of the Johnston Building? I thought the Roy predated the Johnston, so I am confused.

[ns_kid]

Interesting to see the bricked-over window detail there. Is the north-side wall we see with those wondow openings - some bricked-up, a couple with some white-colored material, and one still with glass- a remnant of the Roy that still stands or is it part of the Johnston Building? I thought the Roy predated the Johnston, so I am confused.

My understanding is the top two floors of the Roy were added in 1928, the same year the Johnston -- originally Eaton's -- was being built. Which kind of begs the question why there would be windows at all in the top two floors of either structure. Perhaps the windows were originally framed but then bricked over as construction on the adjacent building caught up.

The third and fourth floors were added to the Roy in 1919 and predated Eaton's so those windows would have originally had glass. Perhaps it was considered enough just to rebuild the interior walls and cover them over.

Maybe someone with more historical insight can weigh in. Anyone want to call the HT?

[counterfactual]

Maybe someone with more historical insight can weigh in. Anyone want to call the HT?

They'll just block the discussion from developing any further... :D

[Ziobrop]

I believe those are Johnston building windows. The spacing seems consistent. I suspect the white May be in the Roy. Unsure of the glass. The glass looks like a Johnston building window, but the placement is odd.

I guess I'll have have to walk down to the third floor and look on Monday

[Ziobrop]

No word on the windows, However the HTNS newsletter from march 2009 offers bit of history.

when the roy was built, it was intended to be 5 stories on both Barrington and Hollis. originally built as 3 in 1897 it was ravaged by fire in 1919 and a forth floor was added. the final 2 stories were added in 1928. The Johnston Building Just predates those additional 2 stories (3 on Granville street)

its a good mystery...

[Jonovision]

It's getting smaller!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10527873_10100416164321109_2992467367266291157_n.jpg

[fenwick16]

It's getting smaller!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10527873_10100416164321109_2992467367266291157_n.jpg

Thanks for the street-view perspective. It is getting close to being level with Barrington Street.

It is good to see that the ones operating the excavation equipment from the rooftop have almost finished the job successfully without incident.

[mcmcclassic]

One of mine from yesterday:

http://i.imgur.com/3gMuEf1l.jpg

[Ziobrop]

View from above this AM:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/0443574f72d1a7b1a21ac13689356b46/tumblr_n8pbc4xCOP1skleqro1_1280.jpg
http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/

Can whoever it was getting shots from the maritime center post a more recent one. I'm curious if it helps to resolve the window mystery any.

[JET]

window mystery, sounds intriguing; what is it?

[Ziobrop]

window mystery, sounds intriguing; what is it?

See NS_Kid and Kieth P's Posts from June 28

[ns_kid]

Can whoever it was getting shots from the maritime center post a more recent one. I'm curious if it helps to resolve the window mystery any.

Great shot, Ziobrop. I've been meaning to take another shot from the south side...when not obstructed by fog or drizzle!

Not much new insight on the windows, though. I did notice when the crew was pulling down the walls on the third floor that again the glass, or at least the frame, of one of the windows was still intact. Seems surprising but apparently when the Eaton's building went up in 1928 the Roy's contractor felt it was good enough to simply rebuild the interior walls and leave the old exterior wall intact, complete with windows still in place. And I suppose it didn't really make much difference.

[ns_kid]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3870/14703742893_4b82d1d45d_b.jpg

The Roy Building has now been reduced to two stories.

The window detail is now clearly visible from the top four floors. It appears that these are the ghostly remnants of the Roy's original windows. I can only assume that the Roy's windows were framed into the top two floors in 1928, before the plans for the Eaton's building were known. Or the contractor built the floors with windows because that's what the plans called for, dammit, even though they already knew Eaton's would catch up and cover them.

I zoomed in pretty closely on my original photos and it seems clear the brickwork in the window areas is quite consistent with the rest of the wall and was installed at the same time. It seems to me that the Eaton's brick was laid (from the inside of course) against the wall of the older Roy Building, and the bricklayers simply cut in around the windows and sills of the Roy building, hence the gaps under each window.

As was visible in the previous photos, the Roy contractors just left the glass in place in the covered-over windows in some cases, while in others it appears the windows were removed and replaced with plywood or plasterboard. Presumably this helps explain the different levels of discolouration.

An interesting snapshot from the past, which will soon enough be covered up again.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Cool piece of archaeology! Thanks for posting this! :tup:

[Ziobrop]

thanks ns_kid
i got impatient and climbed metropark..
from hhttp://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/
http://37.media.tumblr.com/27b1750d8316a1897062dbf943130f51/tumblr_n8x135chzz1skleqro1_500.jpg

i also setup a webcam to timelapse the floor going away on monday. i suspect its mostly rain drops, but we will see.

[Ziobrop]

good news - despite the weather the time lapse doesn't completely suck.

have a look - 1 week of work.
http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/post/92160203078/1-week-of-work-removing-a-floor

[fenwick16]

good news - despite the weather the time lapse doesn't completely suck.

have a look - 1 week of work.
http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/post/92160203078/1-week-of-work-removing-a-floor

Not too bad at all. Thanks for all the pictures.

I will remember to click on the ads whenever I check your tumblr page (I believe in free enterprise - :tup:)

[curnhalio]

That's awesome! It's so cool to be able to get that kind of view. Thanks for putting that up.

[counterfactual]

good news - despite the weather the time lapse doesn't completely suck.

have a look - 1 week of work.
http://buildingtheroy.tumblr.com/post/92160203078/1-week-of-work-removing-a-floor

Great work on the photos.

Also, thank God that was only 1 week time lapse.

Otherwise, the overarching conclusion is that there is no sun in this cursed land.

I think there was a spot of blue sky around 0:55. The rest, gray, sad, clouds, fog, rain.

Depressing. FFS, come on, Halifax!

[portapetey]

Great work on the photos.

Also, thank God that was only 1 week time lapse.

Otherwise, the overarching conclusion is that there is no sun in this cursed land.

I think there was a spot of blue sky around 0:55. The rest, gray, sad, clouds, fog, rain.

Depressing. FFS, come on, Halifax!


Come on now, we've been having a lovely warm, mostly sunny summer - and not enough rain, actually. Last week was the exception (this year at least!) not the rule.

Don't let a few days of cloud get you down!

[counterfactual]

Don't let a few days of cloud get you down!

:haha:

[Jonovision]

Took this today.

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10437774_10100421956189159_3451679372063689996_n.jpg

[lawsond]

Depressing. FFS, come on, Halifax!

Coastal cities get a lot of cloud and rain. Boston, Vancouver, Seattle, San Fran. Miami. But the coast is the most...

[ns_kid]

The Roy Building is facing its final days.

The scaffolding is being dismantled even as the final floors are demolished.

Some photographic evidence, from Barrington Street:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2903/14556949438_285669632c_b.jpg


From Sackville Street:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2899/14556929430_81249662b2_b.jpg


From Grafton Street:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3911/14763455973_e0e4d0e515_b.jpg


The Grafton Street entrance:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5575/14743302192_923d0853bf_b.jpg

[OldDartmouthMark]

Can't help but feel a twinge of sadness at this sight.

I wonder what the crew's impressions were as to the structural integrity of the building? Those beams and columns look pretty robust in the pics, but it's hard to tell from pics alone.

[Jonovision]

Can't help but feel a twinge of sadness at this sight.

I wonder what the crew's impressions were as to the structural integrity of the building? Those beams and columns look pretty robust in the pics, but it's hard to tell from pics alone.

I don't believe there was any issue with structural integrity with the Roy. It was the exact opposite. There was too much robust structure in place for the building to be retrofitted for effective use.

[Ziobrop]

The facade was in lousy shape. They didn't have much trouble knocking that down. The posts beams and floors were quite solid however. It makes sence to take it down for a few reasons.

First the upper floors were arranged around 2 light wells which really broke up the floor pad and probably made it difficult to reuse. Also modern services would be more difficult to integrate, finally the structure was probably undersized to support anything on top.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The facade was in lousy shape. They didn't have much trouble knocking that down. The posts beams and floors were quite solid however. It makes sence to take it down for a few reasons.

First the upper floors were arranged around 2 light wells which really broke up the floor pad and probably made it difficult to reuse. Also modern services would be more difficult to integrate, finally the structure was probably undersized to support anything on top.

Thanks for the info. While I personally hated to see it come down, I understand the reasoning for it. Hopefully there will be some effort to maintain the character of the building in the new structure, as has been alluded to.

I appreciate your chiming in on this. :tup:

[ns_kid]

While I personally hated to see it come down, I understand the reasoning for it. Hopefully there will be some effort to maintain the character of the building in the new structure, as has been alluded to.


I watched for awhile today while workers continued their assault on the bottom two floors of the Roy Building. I couldn't help but notice that there was no apparent attempt to salvage any materials, including the ground level stone. This despite the commitment in the development permit that "stone from the existing structure shall be utilized in the new construction where possible." https://www.halifax.ca/Council/agend...412ca1117i.pdf

The "Roy Building" sign that formerly appeared in stone over the Grafton Street entrance is now removed though I have no way of knowing it it was preserved. But certainly, while I was watching, everything was being dumped in a waiting dump truck.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5575/14743302192_923d0853bf_b.jpg

[JET]

Be interesting to know where the stone ended up. When the old North Unit at The Nova Scotia Hospital was demolished the old granite corner stones (similar to the Shubie Canal stones) were sold off. The house at 145 Prince Albert Road in Dartmouth has a sidewalk retaining wall made of some of those corner stones

[Empire]

Be interesting to know where the stone ended up. When the old North Unit at The Nova Scotia Hospital was demolished the old granite corner stones (similar to the Shubie Canal stones) were sold off. The house at 145 Prince Albert Road in Dartmouth has a sidewalk retaining wall made of some of those corner stones

It's too bad some of the granite corner stones couldn't have been used in the fake façade on Barrington.

Some recent pics by Empire:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_00000120_zps858954a4.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/empire1_2007/media/IMG_00000120_zps858954a4.jpg.html)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_00000123_zps8a4fe688.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/empire1_2007/media/IMG_00000123_zps8a4fe688.jpg.html)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_00000124_zps8b179c02.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/empire1_2007/media/IMG_00000124_zps8b179c02.jpg.html)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Great pics and good point about the fake façade. Has there been any official statement as to the plans for the façade since it appears they are not saving any of the original materials?

[Ziobrop]

slowly but steadily shrinking pile of rubble
from http://theroy.builthalifax.ca/

http://33.media.tumblr.com/cda607ee22c12613573e268b74ca947b/tumblr_n9u79wINfS1skleqro1_1280.jpg

[Ziobrop]

Perhaps Im blind, but did any approval documents for the new design ever go before HRM/are publicly available? I can only find the Old Design..

[xanaxanax]

Perhaps Im blind, but did any approval documents for the new design ever go before HRM/are publicly available? I can only find the Old Design..

You can probably email the city for them but they don't keep old ones on the internet anymore. Anything older than a year or 2 doesn't seem to stay up.

[JET]

slowly but steadily shrinking pile of rubble
from http://theroy.builthalifax.ca/

http://33.media.tumblr.com/cda607ee22c12613573e268b74ca947b/tumblr_n9u79wINfS1skleqro1_1280.jpg

above the dumptruck, near the roof line of the adjoining building (1663?) is some lettering; looks like 'HIGGIN'S"; or something like that. Any idea?

[Ziobrop]

higgins's is a reference to a soap company Im told.

you should follow @builthfx on Twitter. This got hashed out a week ago there :)

[JET]

higgins's is a reference to a soap company Im told.

you should follow @builthfx on Twitter. This got hashed out a week ago there :)

I'm a bit of a Luddite and don't tweet, so I mised that. Great pictures of the Roy destruction on your website. It's nice to have a visual record.

[OldDartmouthMark]

higgins's is a reference to a soap company Im told.

you should follow @builthfx on Twitter. This got hashed out a week ago there :)

There was a Higgins Soap in NYC but it went into insolvency in 1894. Right around the time the Roy was built, so it could be the one.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2249&dat=18940726&id=iEVfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jVQNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4012,1910178

Interesting that it says "HIGGINS'S" which wouldn't really be considered proper english, unless the rules changed between then and now. Also not the way the company spelled it (see below).

Link to an image of a Higgins trade card:
http://www.brooklynvisualheritage.org/trade-card-higgins-soap-company-660-662-atlantic-avenue-brooklyn

[worldlyhaligonian]

Interesting that it says "HIGGINS'S" which wouldn't really be considered proper english, unless the rules changed between then and now. Also not the way the company spelled it (see below).

Link to an image of a Higgins trade card:
http://www.brooklynvisualheritage.org/trade-card-higgins-soap-company-660-662-atlantic-avenue-brooklyn

I think it may be proper use of the possessive? Higgins is not pluralized... so, as I remember the rule, you are not supposed to just add " ' ". e.g. sons' (only add ' after the s because it is plural, there are a number of sons implied) vs a name ending in an 's is the same as a non plural, son or Higgins (son's or Higgins's respectively).

This could be an old rule, but I have been taught it from numerous sources and am still in my 20's.

[pblaauw]

According to page 7 of this PDF (http://www.htns.ca/pdf_Griffin/G0909-3.pdf) from our favourite heritage group, it was a wholesale shoe/boot company.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think it may be proper use of the possessive? Higgins is not pluralized... so, as I remember the rule, you are not supposed to just add " ' ". e.g. sons' (only add ' after the s because it is plural, there are a number of sons implied) vs a name ending in an 's is the same as a non plural, son or Higgins (son's or Higgins's respectively).

This could be an old rule, but I have been taught it from numerous sources and am still in my 20's.

Looks like it could go either way, according to this website:

http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/apostrophes-with-words-ending-in-s/

I was taught (uh... several years ago... ) that proper nouns ending in s should only have an apostrophe without the added "s".

Very good! I learned something new today! :)

[Nilan8888]

Interesting that it says "HIGGINS'S" which wouldn't really be considered proper english, unless the rules changed between then and now. Also not the way the company spelled it (see below).

Actually, I was taught the opposite (at Dalhousie). That "HIGGINS'S" would be correct. And this is from someone who was a professor of old English.

There was, according to them, no such thing as "HIGGINS'" -- that it was just something that started to get used. So yeah, if that's correct now, the rules have changed.

[JET]

Actually, I was taught the opposite (at Dalhousie). That "HIGGINS'S" would be correct. And this is from someone who was a professor of old English.

There was, according to them, no such thing as "HIGGINS'" -- that it was just something that started to get used. So yeah, if that's correct now, the rules have changed.

"There was, according to them, no such thing as "HIGGINS'" -"

I guess they weren't familiar with GB Shaw

[Ziobrop]

According to page 7 of this PDF (http://www.htns.ca/pdf_Griffin/G0909-3.pdf) from our favourite heritage group, it was a wholesale shoe/boot company.

Yes the building was but I believe that sign was an advert rather then what was in the building. Iirc Johnson was the shoe guy..

[counterfactual]

According to page 7 of this PDF (http://www.htns.ca/pdf_Griffin/G0909-3.pdf) from our favourite heritage group, it was a wholesale shoe/boot company.

That doc is dated 2009. Does the Nova Scotia Anti-Development Trust still publish this newsletter? In e-form?

Peter Delefes is a former NDP MLA, no?

A lot of these annoying Nova Scotia Anti-Development Trust people are local NDP politicians.

[JET]

That doc is dated 2009. Does the Nova Scotia Anti-Development Trust still publish this newsletter? In e-form?

Peter Delefes is a former NDP MLA, no?

A lot of these annoying Nova Scotia Anti-Development Trust people are local NDP politicians.

I may be a Luddite, but I know about this little thing called Google.

http://htns.ca/quarterly.html

You seem to be fond of sweeping generalizations; if not an NDP, would that make you a liberal or a conservative, and how is that working for you?

[counterfactual]

I may be a Luddite, but I know about this little thing called Google.

http://htns.ca/quarterly.html

You seem to be fond of sweeping generalizations; if not an NDP, would that make you a liberal or a conservative, and how is that working for you?

Yes, I found it, but thanks. Very Google. Such heritage. So technology. Wow.

As for the rest-- a little overly defensive about the NDP, aren't we? Maybe? Yeah, just a bit. :yes:

Funny you ding me for "sweeping generalizations", and then put on your Seven League Boots and make the jump from me criticizing local NDP heritage trusters to assuming I'm a "liberal or a conservative". Sorry, wrong. Ever hear of independents? Centrists?

I don't identify with any of those parties. I think they've all been generally terrible for the province and the city. I've said on here more than once, that most Nova Scotia Governments have been pretty useless in the past; of all political stripes-- making easy, politically expedient, decisions and neglecting the province's and, especially, Halifax's long term interest.

[Keith P.]

A lot of these annoying Nova Scotia Anti-Development Trust people are local NDP politicians.

Kommissar Howard Epstein provided them with pro-bono legal services acting on their behalf on one of their many lawsuits trying to stop development downtown, as I recall.

[JET]

Kommissar Howard Epstein provided them with pro-bono legal services acting on their behalf on one of their many lawsuits trying to stop development downtown, as I recall.

'pro-bono', can't remember if that was the one with Cher, or the one with U2. I expect HT may have a few individuals providing pro-bono services. Good for them.

[JET]

Yes, I found it, but thanks. Very Google. Such heritage. So technology. Wow.

As for the rest-- a little overly defensive about the NDP, aren't we? Maybe? Yeah, just a bit. :yes:

Funny you ding me for "sweeping generalizations", and then put on your Seven League Boots and make the jump from me criticizing local NDP heritage trusters to assuming I'm a "liberal or a conservative". Sorry, wrong. Ever hear of independents? Centrists?

I don't identify with any of those parties. I think they've all been generally terrible for the province and the city. I've said on here more than once, that most Nova Scotia Governments have been pretty useless in the past; of all political stripes-- making easy, politically expedient, decisions and neglecting the province's and, especially, Halifax's long term interest.

"Seven League Boots'; thank God for Google, now I can actually learn something new everyday.

[counterfactual]

"Seven League Boots'; thank God for Google, now I can actually learn something new everyday.

With great boots, comes great responsibility.

[pblaauw]

If we all had those, there'd be no need for the bridges. And someone could take out the Cogswell Interchange with one deft stomp.

[curnhalio]

If we all had those, there'd be no need for the bridges. And someone could take out the Cogswell Interchange with one deft stomp.

If we could all travel up to 30km in a single step, there would be no need for roads much less bridges.


So, back to topic, now that The Roy as we knew it is one big rubble pile, how long before the new construction begins?

[Ziobrop]

If we could all travel up to 30km in a single step, there would be no need for roads much less bridges.


So, back to topic, now that The Roy as we knew it is one big rubble pile, how long before the new construction begins?

I believe the da expires if they don't start by the fall.
I expect once the rubble is clear they will start digging

[Keith P.]

So, back to topic, now that The Roy as we knew it is one big rubble pile, how long before the new construction begins?

Let's pave it over, stripe it for parking, and invite those two Danish bike nuts back for a tour.

[Ziobrop]

Talked to the Dexter Demo foreman this morning. the bottom of the roy is bellow the bottoms of the foundations of the ajoining buildings. thats why there are still bits of structure left. the Vouge building is going to have the base of the foundation drilled next week and Tieback Anchors installed to keep it in place.

In the photos you can see the spray paint marks where they will go.
From http://theroy.builthalifax.ca/
http://33.media.tumblr.com/acaef1e1aa832551cf3badb3bbc7e8f2/tumblr_nb12ogegPW1skleqro1_1280.jpg

[OldDartmouthMark]

Actually, I was taught the opposite (at Dalhousie). That "HIGGINS'S" would be correct. And this is from someone who was a professor of old English.

There was, according to them, no such thing as "HIGGINS'" -- that it was just something that started to get used. So yeah, if that's correct now, the rules have changed.

Well, I took "engineer's English" at Dalhousie, so you're ahead of me there... :haha:

I was referring back to elementary school English as taught at Greenvale School back in the '70s, so I believe that this would also be trumped by your aforementioned professor of old English. :worship:

I was always more of a sciences guy anyways. :cheers:

[OldDartmouthMark]

"Seven League Boots'; thank God for Google, now I can actually learn something new everyday.

I'm gonna get a pair of those seven league boots to wear with my fifty mission cap. :tup:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Talked to the Dexter Demo foreman this morning. the bottom of the roy is bellow the bottoms of the foundations of the ajoining buildings. thats why there are still bits of structure left. the Vouge building is going to have the base of the foundation drilled next week and Tieback Anchors installed to keep it in place.

In the photos you can see the spray paint marks where they will go.
From http://theroy.builthalifax.ca/
http://33.media.tumblr.com/acaef1e1aa832551cf3badb3bbc7e8f2/tumblr_nb12ogegPW1skleqro1_1280.jpg

Great pics! :tup:

Interesting to see behind the cladding on the vogue.

Having just spent a week in Portland, Maine, I can't help but think that a building like The Roy would have definitely been saved there, no questions asked. Spend some time in the downtown area of Portland and there will be no doubt in anybody's mind that our heritage "laws" are far too weak and that the HTNS has become ineffective.

Spending some time in old buildings that haven't been gutted and facaded really gives one an impression of what we have lost here. I'm left feeling a little disgusted, actually.

http://www.portlandmaine.gov/DocumentCenter/View/2677

[Drybrain]

Having just spent a week in Portland, Maine, I can't help but think that a building like The Roy would have definitely been saved there, no questions asked. Spend some time in the downtown area of Portland and there will be no doubt in anybody's mind that our heritage "laws" are far too weak and that the HTNS has become ineffective.

Spending some time in old buildings that haven't been gutted and facaded really gives one an impression of what we have lost here. I'm left feeling a little disgusted, actually.


I had a similar reaction after visiting Portland—it's brickier in general, but there are strong similarities: east-coast port cities on a peninsula, with inner residential areas in the New England/Maritimes wooden vernacular, and a brick-and-stone downtown.

I suspect Portland was more impressive to begin with (as American cities tend to be—see Chicago vs. Toronto, or Seattle vs. Vancouver) but certainly, there is a sense of an alternative-universe Halifax.

But, Halifax serves as the commercial hub of our region, akin to Boston (on a much smaller scale). So that's a lot more development pressure than Portland would've seen. Portland is probably still so intact thanks to preservation by neglect for much of the 20th century—if Saint John ever revitalizes Uptown, it might be a better analogue to Portland, as a regional second city with a better historic vibe.

BUT: I agree that the demolition of the Roy was kind of messed up. It wasn't a great building, and it's done with now, but it's very rare to see structures of that age and size knocked down anymore. The fact that there are so many other structures either in precarious shape or immediately endangered—Khyber, Green Lantern, Elmwood Hotel, Dennis Building—really speaks to how poorly we perform on this front. We're not just lagging behind Portland; we're lagging behind the rest of Canada.

More upsetting is that city council just rubber-stamps every drastic facadism/demolition/major alteration that comes their way. And if they didn't, there'd be a massive hue and cry about anti-development Halifax and young people leaving and sacrificing our future to our heritage and blah blah blah. It's really a moronic civic discussion we have about this stuff, and it's handicapping us from greatness in our built environment.

[Keith P.]

I don't see anything much in Portland that we don't have here, except that their old buildings were generally nicer than ours to start with. You can't save everything.

[someone123]

I suspect Portland was more impressive to begin with (as American cities tend to be—see Chicago vs. Toronto, or Seattle vs. Vancouver) but certainly, there is a sense of an alternative-universe Halifax.

This seems pretty dubious to me. It does look like Portland has a more uniformly-preserved downtown, but where's the Citadel analogue, or the equivalent of the Public Gardens or Point Pleasant and Fleming Park, or the planned George Street-Grand Parade axis? And which buildings in Portland are a step above the Bank of NS or Dominion Building? If Portland really were ahead I think there would be clearer answers to these questions.

On top of this there's the very significant fact that downtown Halifax is seeing a huge amount of construction right now. Portland in 2020 is probably going to look at lot like Portland in 2010 (or Portland in 1980 for that matter), but Halifax is going to improve a lot over the next few years. Some of this is at odds with heavy heritage preservation. There are plenty of showcase examples of small-scale infill projects in heritage neighbourhoods but not a lot of examples of the type of transformation that has been happening around Spring Garden Road. I know relatively little about municipal politics in Portland, but I have a feeling that sort of stuff wouldn't fly there.

Despite what I said, I do think the outcome in Halifax could have been a lot better given the level of economic activity and the heritage buildings the city started out with a few decades ago. The new buildings should be going on the parking lots. I'm happy that there's so much more construction now but I had hoped that the discussion on heritage preservation would have moved forward as well and it really hasn't.

[JET]

Well, I took "engineer's English" at Dalhousie, so you're ahead of me there... :haha:

I was referring back to elementary school English as taught at Greenvale School back in the '70s, so I believe that this would also be trumped by your aforementioned professor of old English. :worship:

I was always more of a sciences guy anyways. :cheers:

I would have thought that Greenvale English would trump professor of Olde English, at least according to Dartmouth Downtown Hoyle rules. :tup:

[portapetey]

This seems pretty dubious to me. It does look like Portland has a more uniformly-preserved downtown, but where's the Citadel analogue, or the equivalent of the Public Gardens or Point Pleasant and Fleming Park, or the planned George Street-Grand Parade axis? And which buildings in Portland are a step above the Bank of NS or Dominion Building? If Portland really were ahead I think there would be clearer answers to these questions.

On top of this there's the very significant fact that downtown Halifax is seeing a huge amount of construction right now. Portland in 2020 is probably going to look at lot like Portland in 2010 (or Portland in 1980 for that matter), but Halifax is going to improve a lot over the next few years. Some of this is at odds with heavy heritage preservation. There are plenty of showcase examples of small-scale infill projects in heritage neighbourhoods but not a lot of examples of the type of transformation that has been happening around Spring Garden Road. I know relatively little about municipal politics in Portland, but I have a feeling that sort of stuff wouldn't fly there.

Despite what I said, I do think the outcome in Halifax could have been a lot better given the level of economic activity and the heritage buildings the city started out with a few decades ago. The new buildings should be going on the parking lots. I'm happy that there's so much more construction now but I had hoped that the discussion on heritage preservation would have moved forward as well and it really hasn't.


Agreed. Portland looks like a lovely city (but nothing spectacular either) that in some ways would be a better comparison to Saint John than to Halifax (if Saint John weren't so filthy and depressing). Pretty, but not monumental. Well preserved, because there's little development.

I do wish some of the older buildings in Halifax would be saved instead of destroyed. And I do wish we'd have a preserved district that was a more complete heritage area unto itself, and a neighbouring business / hi-rise district nearby that would contrast nicely with it. What we're getting instead is a mix and match approach, and hopefully it will end up well. I personally like a blend of old and new.

I also agree its a shame the discussion on heritage preservation hasn't advanced at all. I think the antidevelopment trust has really done a massive disservice to its (ostensible) cause and to the city by making it appear that heritage preservation is one and the same as all-out war against any and all development. In doing so, they've both missed many opportunities to save real heritage, and they've destroyed the credibility of and public trust in their (ostensible) movement for the last couple of decades. By the time any real heritage preservationists with integrity have come in and taken a corrective course to repair the damage the existing trust has caused, it might be too late.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I would have thought that Greenvale English would trump professor of Olde English, at least according to Dartmouth Downtown Hoyle rules. :tup:

:haha:

[halifaxboyns]

I'm heading to Portland later this month. While they've done an okay job in preserving historical buildings - the 'joy' in Portland is seeing how places like the Pearl district have risen up from nothing to become quite bustling communities where people live a completely urban lifestyle. Buildings in the pearl district have no parking requirement for ground floor retail and less then 1 parking stall per dwelling unit. The reason they can do that is because Portland decided to invest in transit rather than building freeways.

1000 friends of Portland helped create their urban growth boundary but also helped push to sink a massive freeway project that would've destroyed what became the Pearl District and downtown. As a result; the money went into investing in their light rail transit system and the streetcar - which has been tremendously successful in terms of boardings per day (although the governance has been having some issues).

As a planner; I look at Portland as an example of the potential of urban living. If Halifax (or Calgary or anywhere) could take the Pearl District and replicate it to fit their city; then great things will happen. This is why (to me) Halifax has such great potential. The bones are there just waiting for that spark of inspiration.

Portland had that 'light goes on' moment that planning for the car should be the last thing and that we design cities for people. They realized that by building an efficient and effective LRT and streetcar network; people abandoned cars and chose other forms of Transportation. I've watched a few documentaries and read a few books on Portland - so I'm very excited to go and see it for myself.

[OldDartmouthMark]

This seems pretty dubious to me. It does look like Portland has a more uniformly-preserved downtown, but where's the Citadel analogue, or the equivalent of the Public Gardens or Point Pleasant and Fleming Park, or the planned George Street-Grand Parade axis? And which buildings in Portland are a step above the Bank of NS or Dominion Building? If Portland really were ahead I think there would be clearer answers to these questions.

On top of this there's the very significant fact that downtown Halifax is seeing a huge amount of construction right now. Portland in 2020 is probably going to look at lot like Portland in 2010 (or Portland in 1980 for that matter), but Halifax is going to improve a lot over the next few years. Some of this is at odds with heavy heritage preservation. There are plenty of showcase examples of small-scale infill projects in heritage neighbourhoods but not a lot of examples of the type of transformation that has been happening around Spring Garden Road. I know relatively little about municipal politics in Portland, but I have a feeling that sort of stuff wouldn't fly there.

Despite what I said, I do think the outcome in Halifax could have been a lot better given the level of economic activity and the heritage buildings the city started out with a few decades ago. The new buildings should be going on the parking lots. I'm happy that there's so much more construction now but I had hoped that the discussion on heritage preservation would have moved forward as well and it really hasn't.

Please don't misunderstand my point. I'm not intending to suggest that Portland is a better city than Halifax or that Halifax should be like Portland. You will likely come to the conclusion if you read my posts here that I tend to fall more on the side of being very pro-Halifax and generally pleased with the direction in which the city is moving. I agree that they are two very different cities for the reasons stated and more.

My point, however, is that I saw, shopped in, ate and drank in - many buildings that had at one point had major cosmetic and structural work done. Buildings that had, despite being repurposed and functionally modernized to some extent, retained their original flavour and charm. Buildings that, like the Roy, would have been deemed unrepairable in Halifax and fallen to the wrecker's ball, in some cases resulting in an empty lot to plague the downtown for years to come. That, or gutted and façaded by some developer who will then pat himself on the back and proclaim that he 'saved' the building.

Typically when I read about the topic of saving heritage buildings on this forum, the comments usually fall on the side that it's not worth saving a particular building because it's too far gone and/or it's insignificant or whatever. My visit to Portland has shown me that this attitude does not have to be taken as gospel - there are other possible outcomes that have become a reality elsewhere.

That's all. :cheers:

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'm heading to Portland later this month. While they've done an okay job in preserving historical buildings - the 'joy' in Portland is seeing how places like the Pearl district have risen up from nothing to become quite bustling communities where people live a completely urban lifestyle. Buildings in the pearl district have no parking requirement for ground floor retail and less then 1 parking stall per dwelling unit. The reason they can do that is because Portland decided to invest in transit rather than building freeways.

1000 friends of Portland helped create their urban growth boundary but also helped push to sink a massive freeway project that would've destroyed what became the Pearl District and downtown. As a result; the money went into investing in their light rail transit system and the streetcar - which has been tremendously successful in terms of boardings per day (although the governance has been having some issues).

As a planner; I look at Portland as an example of the potential of urban living. If Halifax (or Calgary or anywhere) could take the Pearl District and replicate it to fit their city; then great things will happen. This is why (to me) Halifax has such great potential. The bones are there just waiting for that spark of inspiration.

Portland had that 'light goes on' moment that planning for the car should be the last thing and that we design cities for people. They realized that by building an efficient and effective LRT and streetcar network; people abandoned cars and chose other forms of Transportation. I've watched a few documentaries and read a few books on Portland - so I'm very excited to go and see it for myself.

Oops... should have stated more clearly that it was Portland, Maine that I visited. :hmmm:

Tried out the Nova Star in the process and wish to report that it was a very good experience. Lots of positive comments from American tourists that I spoke to as well.

Would like to visit Oregon some day though. :cheers:

[Keith P.]

The Granville Mall area seems to me to be very similar to what you experienced in Portland, ME. The trouble is that for whatever reason the bars and restos in there (excepting the Split Crow) never seem able to make it. But when Brussels, or JJ Rossys, or Peddlers Pub were in business, you had that same experience of being in old buildings that had major renovation work done to make them viable.

It would be interesting to see what happens if/when NSCAD vacates the majority of that area as seems inevitable. Will it sit empty or will businesses try to make it work? It is a bit of an island right now and without much residential around it the prospects would not be good.

[portapetey]

Please don't misunderstand my point. I'm not intending to suggest that Portland is a better city than Halifax or that Halifax should be like Portland. You will likely come to the conclusion if you read my posts here that I tend to fall more on the side of being very pro-Halifax and generally pleased with the direction in which the city is moving. I agree that they are two very different cities for the reasons stated and more.

My point, however, is that I saw, shopped in, ate and drank in - many buildings that had at one point had major cosmetic and structural work done. Buildings that had, despite being repurposed and functionally modernized to some extent, retained their original flavour and charm. Buildings that, like the Roy, would have been deemed unrepairable in Halifax and fallen to the wrecker's ball, in some cases resulting in an empty lot to plague the downtown for years to come. That, or gutted and façaded by some developer who will then pat himself on the back and proclaim that he 'saved' the building.

Typically when I read about the topic of saving heritage buildings on this forum, the comments usually fall on the side that it's not worth saving a particular building because it's too far gone and/or it's insignificant or whatever. My visit to Portland has shown me that this attitude does not have to be taken as gospel - there are other possible outcomes that have become a reality elsewhere.

That's all. :cheers:

I agree with the majority of your post. I think, though, that there are really only a couple of "tear it all down and kill it dead" advocates. i think the majority of commenters here (and more generally in Halifax) seem to want a nice balance of heritage and modernism.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The Granville Mall area seems to me to be very similar to what you experienced in Portland, ME. The trouble is that for whatever reason the bars and restos in there (excepting the Split Crow) never seem able to make it. But when Brussels, or JJ Rossys, or Peddlers Pub were in business, you had that same experience of being in old buildings that had major renovation work done to make them viable.

It would be interesting to see what happens if/when NSCAD vacates the majority of that area as seems inevitable. Will it sit empty or will businesses try to make it work? It is a bit of an island right now and without much residential around it the prospects would not be good.

Yeah, I always liked the Granville Mall area and was disappointed that it seemed to fizzle out over time. It has been alluded to here that Cogswell played a large part in the lack of pedestrian traffic by cutting off the north side of GM. It will be interesting to see if it can hang on as a pedestrian street long enough for Cogswell to be reconfigured. Maybe that will coincide with NSCAD vacating the premises - time will tell.

One thing that made Portland, ME a different experience for me was that it had a slightly more upbeat vibe - can't describe it completely but the general feel was very positive among the locals I spoke to. I have to filter out my own feelings of being in vacation mode, as every city feels better when you are on vacation and have no responsibilities, but just in general I saw a good amount of support for the businesses by locals as well as tourists (talked to an equal amount of both groups). But again, 1 week is just a small slice of life in the middle of tourist season - I don't know what it's like there in the winter months.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think, though, that there are really only a couple of "tear it all down and kill it dead" advocates. i think the majority of commenters here (and more generally in Halifax) seem to want a nice balance of heritage and modernism.

Can't disagree with this statement and I wasn't meaning to overstate my point if that's how it came across. There can be extreme views expressed but I typically view those as being a little tongue-in-cheek, or at least a culmination of decades of frustration from watching our neglected heritage properties degrade or sit as bombed-out shells.

Really, the crux of my disappointment lies with the developers, the group that is supposed to be an advocate for saving heritage, and all three levels of government for not making a greater effort to come up with a plan and the means by which to save these buildings and make them viable. As mentioned, all that is harder to accept after having the opportunity to view a successful effort in person.

[Colin May]

I had a similar reaction after visiting Portland—it's brickier in general, but there are strong similarities: east-coast port cities on a

BUT:
More upsetting is that city council just rubber-stamps every drastic facadism/demolition/major alteration that comes their way.

HRM council rubber stamped the 2013/14 Audited financial statements in 160 seconds (July 22 meeting) , and only Hendsbee asked a question - something about reserves (?) and an apparent promise from staff to provide details. Butts stopped chewing gum long enough to tell him he'd send Hendsbee the information.
Doesn't look very professional when a $300,000 a year CAO sits through council meetings chewing gum.

[halifaxboyns]

Doesn't look very professional when a $300,000 a year CAO sits through council meetings chewing gum.

It's quite telling isn't it? Although here in Calgary - the City Manager (equivalent role) only attends certain parts of the meeting. So each month there is the regular meeting of council and then a combined meeting of council; which includes land use public hearings. When the meeting moves from the overall agenda (which involves any of the 8 department General Manager's) - the City Manager remains in his place.

If it's a combined meeting and they move into the public hearing; the City Manager leaves and the General Manager for Planning, Development & Assessment (Rollin - my GM) sits in his place to run the public hearing. The GM of transportation will usually stay in his seat. Our City Council chamber has dedicated row of seats in front of council for the 8 general managers; they don't sit out in the gallery with the public.

The City Manager also leaves his space when the budget is going on and the Chief Financial Officer of the City sits in his place to run the budget meetings. The City Manager only returns once the public hearing/budget debates are over and the meeting returns back to the full agenda (involving all the GMs) or the end of the budget meeting is done to present final comment on the proposed budget and answer questions during deliberation. Budget generally takes 3-5 days.

Since we have a new City Manager; he may try to shake things up and change the process somewhat but we haven't had a public hearing with him in his role yet so hard to tell. We will see on the 8th of September. But our City Manager doesn't respond to things unless the General Managers can't come up with something. That seems to be the way it works in Edmonton too - but still oversee the meeting.

[someone123]

My previous post was meant to be a response specifically to the comment about Portland (ME) being more impressive way back when. I don't think that's true, outside of maybe a brief period in the early 1900's. Aside from that period it was probably the opposite.

The more interesting general observation is that, to some degree, there's a trade-off between moving forward and preserving a snapshot in time. I think more buildings could have been preserved in Halifax without much downside, but I don't think it's true in general that the city would be better off if we could turn back the clock and replace even some of the plainer highrises with old brick and wood Victorians. Park Vic for example is not exactly architecturally stunning but it must add a lot of vibrancy to its neighbourhood. We've been talking about the Roy Building, but it's not clear yet what exactly the replacement will be like. It's possible it will be a lot nicer and it will definitely have more usable space and add density.

Agreed. Portland looks like a lovely city (but nothing spectacular either) that in some ways would be a better comparison to Saint John than to Halifax (if Saint John weren't so filthy and depressing). Pretty, but not monumental. Well preserved, because there's little development.

Atlantic Canada and New England have a lots of places like this. I think Charlottetown, Lunenburg, and St. John's fall into a similar category, for example. Downtown Halifax is actually a pretty unique environment because its modern buildings are paired with Atlantic-style buildings and older heritage buildings than most points farther west. Whether or not it's better than other towns in the region is a matter of opinion, I guess.

[Colin May]

It's quite telling isn't it? Although here in Calgary - the City Manager (equivalent role) only attends certain parts of the meeting. So each month there is the regular meeting of council and then a combined meeting of council; which includes land use public hearings. When the meeting moves from the overall agenda (which involves any of the 8 department General Manager's) - the City Manager remains in his place.

If it's a combined meeting and they move into the public hearing; the City Manager leaves and the General Manager for Planning, Development & Assessment (Rollin - my GM) sits in his place to run the public hearing. The GM of transportation will usually stay in his seat. Our City Council chamber has dedicated row of seats in front of council for the 8 general managers; they don't sit out in the gallery with the public.

The City Manager also leaves his space when the budget is going on and the Chief Financial Officer of the City sits in his place to run the budget meetings. The City Manager only returns once the public hearing/budget debates are over and the meeting returns back to the full agenda (involving all the GMs) or the end of the budget meeting is done to present final comment on the proposed budget and answer questions during deliberation. Budget generally takes 3-5 days.

Since we have a new City Manager; he may try to shake things up and change the process somewhat but we haven't had a public hearing with him in his role yet so hard to tell. We will see on the 8th of September. But our City Manager doesn't respond to things unless the General Managers can't come up with something. That seems to be the way it works in Edmonton too - but still oversee the meeting.

HRM Council meetings, and Committee of the Whole are broadcast live on cable TV and and streaming on the internet. The video is available at any time through the page listing the meetings.
The Toronto city manager has announced his retirement and the Deputy will be the fill in until a new one is hired. Butts may apply for either position and then he won't have a weekly commute to Halifax, as a former senior employee the Toronto councillors know him.

[curnhalio]

HRM Council meetings, and Committee of the Whole are broadcast live on cable TV and and streaming on the internet. The video is available at any time through the page listing the meetings.
The Toronto city manager has announced his retirement and the Deputy will be the fill in until a new one is hired. Butts may apply for either position and then he won't have a weekly commute to Halifax, as a former senior employee the Toronto councillors know him.

I sure hope he does. It would be nice to have our city run by someone who actually lives here again.

As a side note, I wish this city would stop running to someone from Toronto every time we want to know how to do something.

[Keith P.]

As a side note, I wish this city would stop running to someone from Toronto every time we want to know how to do something.

It's all part of the "best practice!" foolishness, and using a headhunting firm that can bill more fees by doing a national search.

If Butts leaves it is time to roll back the salary scale for this job. Paying a CAO over 300K means he makes more than anyone who works for the province, and puts unneeded upward pressure on the salaries of all his direct reports, etc.

[Keith P.]

Doesn't look very professional when a $300,000 a year CAO sits through council meetings chewing gum.

Ah, Colin, back in the day they'd all be smoking cigars or cigarettes in the meeting. Orange is the new black, and gum is the new cigarette.

[portapetey]

Ah, Colin, back in the day they'd all be smoking cigars or cigarettes in the meeting. Orange is the new black, and gum is the new cigarette.

Yup. I'm more worried about someone's work performance than whether they like Dentyne.

[OldDartmouthMark]

My previous post was meant to be a response specifically to the comment about Portland (ME) being more impressive way back when. I don't think that's true, outside of maybe a brief period in the early 1900's. Aside from that period it was probably the opposite.

The more interesting general observation is that, to some degree, there's a trade-off between moving forward and preserving a snapshot in time. I think more buildings could have been preserved in Halifax without much downside, but I don't think it's true in general that the city would be better off if we could turn back the clock and replace even some of the plainer highrises with old brick and wood Victorians. Park Vic for example is not exactly architecturally stunning but it must add a lot of vibrancy to its neighbourhood. We've been talking about the Roy Building, but it's not clear yet what exactly the replacement will be like. It's possible it will be a lot nicer and it will definitely have more usable space and add density.



Atlantic Canada and New England have a lots of places like this. I think Charlottetown, Lunenburg, and St. John's fall into a similar category, for example. Downtown Halifax is actually a pretty unique environment because its modern buildings are paired with Atlantic-style buildings and older heritage buildings than most points farther west. Whether or not it's better than other towns in the region is a matter of opinion, I guess.

Sorry, I shouldn't actually have quoted you in my response - was intending to address the general direction of the responding posts and was reading yours when I posted.

The point I wanted to make, actually, is that we can't go back in history to change what has been done, but we can now choose to try to preserve what we have left.

In my opinion it's a shame to rip down a building built over 100 years ago with the excuse that it can't be saved. Seeing what Portland has done has reinforced the idea that with some effort the Roy could have been saved. Surely, the development that will be going in there will be significant and attractive, however it could have been built on any number of vacant lots still dotting the downtown.

There will not be any more buildings built like The Roy. Not to mention that this section of Barrington is supposed to be some kind of heritage district - what a joke that is. Let's preserve the district by ripping down or gutting out whatever centenarian buildings remain there as long as some faux-heritage façade is built in its place so we can still call it 'heritage'. Just my humble opinion but it seems that this could be managed much better than it is now.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I had a similar reaction after visiting Portland—it's brickier in general, but there are strong similarities: east-coast port cities on a peninsula, with inner residential areas in the New England/Maritimes wooden vernacular, and a brick-and-stone downtown.

I suspect Portland was more impressive to begin with (as American cities tend to be—see Chicago vs. Toronto, or Seattle vs. Vancouver) but certainly, there is a sense of an alternative-universe Halifax.

But, Halifax serves as the commercial hub of our region, akin to Boston (on a much smaller scale). So that's a lot more development pressure than Portland would've seen. Portland is probably still so intact thanks to preservation by neglect for much of the 20th century—if Saint John ever revitalizes Uptown, it might be a better analogue to Portland, as a regional second city with a better historic vibe.

BUT: I agree that the demolition of the Roy was kind of messed up. It wasn't a great building, and it's done with now, but it's very rare to see structures of that age and size knocked down anymore. The fact that there are so many other structures either in precarious shape or immediately endangered—Khyber, Green Lantern, Elmwood Hotel, Dennis Building—really speaks to how poorly we perform on this front. We're not just lagging behind Portland; we're lagging behind the rest of Canada.

More upsetting is that city council just rubber-stamps every drastic facadism/demolition/major alteration that comes their way. And if they didn't, there'd be a massive hue and cry about anti-development Halifax and young people leaving and sacrificing our future to our heritage and blah blah blah. It's really a moronic civic discussion we have about this stuff, and it's handicapping us from greatness in our built environment.

Excellent post! :tup:

Sorry I didn't address it sooner, but I lost it in the shuffle.

[Ziobrop]

tieing down the Vogue Building
photos from http://theroy.builthalifax.ca/
Drill
http://38.media.tumblr.com/e3e5d92fc86ef7b395ee842c58919228/tumblr_nb2s2j2Jp91skleqro1_500.jpg
Insert Tieback
http://38.media.tumblr.com/e5929725557b75160faa9e1a1e6a74e9/tumblr_nb9zpsx4zS1skleqro1_500.jpg

then Grout, tension, and bolt.

also heard starfish is trying to buy the little Mysteries building, current owner apparently doubled his price.