Calgary street names: To change or not to change?

[Stephen Ave]

There has been some discussion on whether we should change some or all of the numbered street names back to their original names. What's the consensus?

IMO, it's a no brainer. change the ones that already share an histoic name (eg Scarth Street, Notre Dame ave, etc..) It would add alot of character and still leave the numbered system widely intact.

[ummagumma66]

why and when did they change to the number system? I like the whole named street system.

[mersar]

why and when did they change to the number system? I like the whole named street system.

Sometime around 1904 I believe someone else said

[Surrealplaces]

I see no problem in changing the streets that already share their old name, in fact I don't see the point of having both, to me that's more confusing.

I like the numbered system, but c'mon, no reason we couldn't change a few of the streets. Especially 17th ave. That's a terrible street name for a vibrant urban street.

[Ayreonaut]

As long as they don't change it to Cowboy Way or something like that.

I voted for the second option, the number system is nice when trying to find places.

[Boris2k7]

A hybrid system would be best. Really, the majority of streets in Calgary are actually named, usually after their host suburb. It's nice to have numbers for navigation purposes, but not necessary. Then again, the same could be said for the names, but they also give more character to the city.

Look at this fancy schmancy sign I cooked up

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9933/scarth1tz8.png

[Deepstar]

^That's not a bad idea Boris. If I had it my way, I'd change at least 4 city streets back to the original.

9th ave -> Atlantic ave
17th ave -> Notre Dame
4th st -> Broadway st
1st st -> Scarth st

[RWin]

We should number all the streets but in no particular order.

[The_Bachelor]

I think it's kinda cool how 9th Ave is Atlantic Ave and 10 Ave is Pacific Ave with the CPR tracks between them. Like how the CPR railway connects the Atlantic to the Pacific ocean. A little tip of the hat as it were.

[Innersoul1]

I really like the hybrid sign idea!

[wild wild west]

My vote is change the downtown streets to their original names where applicable, otherwise outside the Core the numbered streets are fine.

[Bigtime]

I'd change at least 4 city streets back to the original.

9th ave -> Atlantic ave
17th ave -> Notre Dame
4th st -> Broadway st
1st st -> Scarth st

I like this, just a small number of numbers change but the impact of them having the names would be HUGE! :tup:

[Wooster]

^That's not a bad idea Boris. If I had it my way, I'd change at least 4 city streets back to the original.

9th ave -> Atlantic ave
17th ave -> Notre Dame
4th st -> Broadway st
1st st -> Scarth st

I like the hybrid idea, like how 8th ave is better known as Stephen Ave, but you still know it's 8th. I like the proposed ones above, add in "Volunteer Way" for Centre Street South as a new alternative name as well as "Barclay Mall" for 3rd Street in the Downtown Core.

I like Atlantic, Broadway and Scarth, but am not too keen on Notre Dame for 17th. Perhaps an opportunity to name it after someone. "Iginla Avenue" (but only if he wins us a stanley cup).

[93JC]

The only one I can wholeheartedly support changing is 3rd/Barclay Street. As it stands now it's signed as Barclay Mall SW, Barclay Parade SW and 3rd St SW (as far as I know). It might as well be changed to Barclay Street along its entire length from 9th Ave to its terminus at 2nd St in Eau Claire, saving a whole lot of confusion, in my opinion.

The other streets? The numbered grid is too well established to change them completely, but the signs could carry a "formerly known as" like they do in Mission.

[93JC]

I like Atlantic, Broadway and Scarth, but am not too keen on Notre Dame for 17th.

We could spice it up and call it the original French "Rue Notre Dame".

[Aralaus]

If you do Atlantic Ave, you have do do Pacific to restore that symbolic symmetry. Plus that street could use a sort of branding on it to emphasize the trendy design district its becoming.

As far as 17th, we should stay with Notre Dame Avenue. It may be a bit Christian for some people's liking, but its a nod to the historical religious presence that existed there via Rouleauville (sp?), Mission (Father Lacombe's first mission if I am not mistaken) and St. Mary's School/Cathedral.

But I also like the idea of naming some of our streets after important figures in our history. Calgary doesn't remember the giants of its past the same way other cities do. We really should have a Manning Drive (Ernest and Preston can share it, hehe), or Aberhart Drive, and even a Klein Avenue (yes, whatever you think of him, King Ralph is worthy of that distinction because he was one of the most dynamic personalities ever to grace our province, and fantastically represents the self-determined "you are what you make of yourself" mentality we have here).

[mersar]

Alright, one quick question that I have, where/when did the name Broadway get put into use on whats now 4th, as from the map that I've seen from the late 1890's the street was Ross Street, not Broadway Street.

[93JC]

I don't know where the idea it was named Broadway came from either. Every map I've ever seen also says Ross Street.

[lubicon]

I'd love to see a return to the old historical street names. To me it adds character.

Mind you, I think it was Mersar who showed some of the old names and IIRC Centre Street was Mctavish Street originally. I'm not sure if Calgary would put up with naming a street after the coach of the Edmonton Oilers (yes I realize the spelling may be different).

[lubicon]

One more name. Apparently 19 Ave SW was originally St Mary Street which is part of the reason for St Mary's High School's name.

[Big Sky]

No offense to those who voted to leave it as is, but why would you people not want to change at least of few of the popular corridors?? Give your head a shake! names like 17th ave and 4th street have no character whatsoever. :hell:

[MalcolmTucker]

If you do Atlantic Ave, you have do do Pacific to restore that symbolic symmetry. Plus that street could use a sort of branding on it to emphasize the trendy design district its becoming.

As far as 17th, we should stay with Notre Dame Avenue. It may be a bit Christian for some people's liking, but its a nod to the historical religious presence that existed there via Rouleauville (sp?), Mission (Father Lacombe's first mission if I am not mistaken) and St. Mary's School/Cathedral.

But I also like the idea of naming some of our streets after important figures in our history. Calgary doesn't remember the giants of its past the same way other cities do. We really should have a Manning Drive (Ernest and Preston can share it, hehe), or Aberhart Drive, and even a Klein Avenue (yes, whatever you think of him, King Ralph is worthy of that distinction because he was one of the most dynamic personalities ever to grace our province, and fantastically represents the self-determined "you are what you make of yourself" mentality we have here).

Naming streets lets local marketers create weirdly named districts in the Tribeca/Soho fashion. I wonder if the design district could go for No(rth)Va(n)Ho(rne). The entire Beltline could become So(uth)Pa(cific).

17th ave could become Tri(angle below)Rose or TriNo'Dame or more simply just No'Dame.

Olympic Plaza cultural district could just become the drinkwater district.

[NumberFive]

No offense to those who voted to leave it as is, but why would you people not want to change at least of few of the popular corridors?? Give your head a shake! names like 17th ave and 4th street have no character whatsoever. :hell:

IMO, the character of a street is obtained by what's on it, not by what it's named.

[93JC]

One more name. Apparently 19 Ave SW was originally St Mary Street which is part of the reason for St Mary's High School's name.

The high school and the road were named after St. Mary's Cathedral, which was named after... St. Mary...

[Habanero]

IMO, the character of a street is obtained by what's on it, not by what it's named.

I would have to disagree. All businesses equal, a good street name gives the street more character.

[DizzyEdge]

If you do Atlantic Ave, you have do do Pacific to restore that symbolic symmetry. Plus that street could use a sort of branding on it to emphasize the trendy design district its becoming.

As far as 17th, we should stay with Notre Dame Avenue. It may be a bit Christian for some people's liking, but its a nod to the historical religious presence that existed there via Rouleauville (sp?), Mission (Father Lacombe's first mission if I am not mistaken) and St. Mary's School/Cathedral.

But I also like the idea of naming some of our streets after important figures in our history. Calgary doesn't remember the giants of its past the same way other cities do. We really should have a Manning Drive (Ernest and Preston can share it, hehe), or Aberhart Drive, and even a Klein Avenue (yes, whatever you think of him, King Ralph is worthy of that distinction because he was one of the most dynamic personalities ever to grace our province, and fantastically represents the self-determined "you are what you make of yourself" mentality we have here).

They could call the cul-de-sac in front of his old watering hole in the east village the "Klein-de-sac"

[DizzyEdge]

By the way, here's a map showing the names... it's huge (in dimensions, not download size)

http://www.calgaryheritage.org/images/CalgaryStreetNames.JPG


Re: Ross St vs Broadway, it appears Broadway was only 4th street in Mission, north of 17th was Ross.

Edit: two things you'll notice is that parcel of land at the south end of Mission was set aside to be Public Park Reserve, and that some of the streets went over what was formerly a graveyard... spooky

[DizzyEdge]

Yes me again...
I personally like the idea of bringing the names back, however it's undeniable how useful the grid numbering system is. Boris's idea definitely works, and I like it better than "Formerly.. etc" that are up in some areas now, since saying formerly is not really bringing the old name back.. I want names where if you send a letter to 1234 Scarth St, it will get to it's destination (I've actually been wanting to try that with one of the 'formerly' street signed streets).

I digress.

One option would be to solely bring back the names, but on each sign have something like "100 block" or just "100" in smaller writing to indicate the numbering of the addresses, as I've seen in other cities.

[lubicon]

If you do Atlantic Ave, you have do do Pacific to restore that symbolic symmetry. Plus that street could use a sort of branding on it to emphasize the trendy design district its becoming.

As far as 17th, we should stay with Notre Dame Avenue. It may be a bit Christian for some people's liking, but its a nod to the historical religious presence that existed there via Rouleauville (sp?), Mission (Father Lacombe's first mission if I am not mistaken) and St. Mary's School/Cathedral.

But I also like the idea of naming some of our streets after important figures in our history. Calgary doesn't remember the giants of its past the same way other cities do. We really should have a Manning Drive (Ernest and Preston can share it, hehe), or Aberhart Drive, and even a Klein Avenue (yes, whatever you think of him, King Ralph is worthy of that distinction because he was one of the most dynamic personalities ever to grace our province, and fantastically represents the self-determined "you are what you make of yourself" mentality we have here).

The idea has merit. One thing I notice in this country is that it seems we almost always name these things (roads, airports etc) after politicians, as if they were the only important people in our history. Surely there are others who made just as much a contirbution to our society, and they deserve the same respect. I'd love to see more 'things' named aafter people other than politicians.

And yes there are some good examples (Mt Terry Fox, Wayne Gretzky Drive, and Mcall Way to name a few).

[DizzyEdge]

The idea has merit. One thing I notice in this country is that it seems we almost always name these things (roads, airports etc) after politicians, as if they were the only important people in our history. Surely there are others who made just as much a contirbution to our society, and they deserve the same respect. I'd love to see more 'things' named aafter people other than politicians.

And yes there are some good examples (Mt Terry Fox, Wayne Gretzky Drive, and Mcall Way to name a few).


I agree completely, although I like the idea of bringing back old street names, I don't see why we have to be stuck in 1900 and never name any future streets after future leaders.

[Innersoul1]

No offense to those who voted to leave it as is, but why would you people not want to change at least of few of the popular corridors?? Give your head a shake! names like 17th ave and 4th street have no character whatsoever. :hell:

I only voted the way I did because the hybrid, which I favour was not an option:whip:

[DizzyEdge]

I only voted the way I did because the hybrid, which I favour was not an option:whip:

That's the way I would have voted too.

[Daveography]

As an example of what could be done is how the Garneau area of Edmonton gives a nod to the old street names, while maintaining the numbers:

http://beetnik.org/gallery/d/3464-2/IMG_5480.jpg
(Photo source (http://beetnik.org/index.php?c=image))

The names are not "valid" as far as addresses and postal services are concerned, but they tie the streets a bit more to their history and give them a little more character.

[bigcanuck]

If you're going for the hybrid, what's wrong with the current format:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/401094768_fed061b24f.jpg?v=0

(Photo source (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/401094768_fed061b24f.jpg?v=0
))

From Flickr - Uploaded on February 24, 2007 by bchow

[Innersoul1]

No offense to those who voted to leave it as is, but why would you people not want to change at least of few of the popular corridors?? Give your head a shake! names like 17th ave and 4th street have no character whatsoever. :hell:

If you're going for the hybrid, what's wrong with the current format:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/401094768_fed061b24f.jpg?v=0

(Photo source (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/401094768_fed061b24f.jpg?v=0
))

From Flickr - Uploaded on February 24, 2007 by bchow

I really like the current format

[Aralaus]

The idea has merit. One thing I notice in this country is that it seems we almost always name these things (roads, airports etc) after politicians, as if they were the only important people in our history. Surely there are others who made just as much a contirbution to our society, and they deserve the same respect. I'd love to see more 'things' named aafter people other than politicians.

And yes there are some good examples (Mt Terry Fox, Wayne Gretzky Drive, and Mcall Way to name a few).

Well there are definately notable figures in our history that we can point to, but we dont learn their history in school. I mean hell I was a history major and even I am struggling to recall other figures.

I suppose Calgary would also look at people like Senator Burns (our first millionaire), the guy that started the Stampede (Guy Wedick? lol, seemed like the name to go with), or Normie Kwong (our current Lt. Gov. but also legendary Stamps figure)

[DizzyEdge]

If you're going for the hybrid, what's wrong with the current format:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/401094768_fed061b24f.jpg?v=0

(Photo source (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/401094768_fed061b24f.jpg?v=0
))

From Flickr - Uploaded on February 24, 2007 by bchow

I guess it depends on what you want to achieve
a) a nod to the historic names - then the current 'formerly' signs work well
b) to bring back the historic names to be valid addresses, but also retain the numbering - then I like Boris' idea
c) to replace the numbering with the historic names, but retain some of the convenience of numbering - replace the signs with names, but with the block numbering in smaller text.. or perhaps reverse the 'formerly' signs with the name in large text with the numbered version below in smaller text.

[Big Sky]

I guess it depends on what you want to achieve
a) a nod to the historic names - then the current 'formerly' signs work well
b) to bring back the historic names to be valid addresses, but also retain the numbering - then I like Boris' idea
c) to replace the numbering with the historic names, but retain some of the convenience of numbering - replace the signs with names, but with the block numbering in smaller text.. or perhaps reverse the 'formerly' signs with the name in large text with the numbered version below in smaller text.

I like the 'B' option of retaining the numbers, but also allowing the historic names to be used as an official address.

I like the hybrid option, but as it stands you can't use the historic name as a proper street address. Stephen Ave is both 8th ave, and Stephen ave, but Stephen ave is used as an official address.

[mersar]

Just for comparison sake, heres the signs currently in use on Stephen Ave, which seem to be a pretty good design to mimic:

http://www.compscience.info/public/images/2008/stephenave-may28-1.jpg

[Wooster]

^ I like the Stephen Ave model. Really it would only be for 5 or 6 special streets, so I only see upside to this. It would be an interesting idea to bring forward to the Centre City team or someone else at the City.

[DizzyEdge]

^ I like the Stephen Ave model. Really it would only be for 5 or 6 special streets, so I only see upside to this. It would be an interesting idea to bring forward to the Centre City team or someone else at the City.

I do too, the Stephen ave sign is pretty good. As you were insinuating, there is then the option of applying the names to all formerly named streets, or just to 'streets of note'.

One interesting idea: If you look at that old map, the avenues are all named, but the streets start at around 4th street W, and then continue east until the midpoint of inglewood, and includes all of Ramsay, etc.. so north-south streets from 5th st W to 14th St W are unnamed... perhaps those unnamed downtown streets could be used to honour more recent Calgarians?

There's naming in Bridgeland as well on that map, but I'm not sure if the blocks ended up being formed the way they were on that map.

EDIT: it turns out the blocks did end up that way, but with large lots that were likely meant for further subdivision, so additional roads popped up between the ones noted on the old map.. I had some time at lunch so here's an overlay:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5843/bridgelandstreetnamesbg3.jpg

Only Meredith got it's name, albeit as a Rd instead of St.

Note that northbound Edm Trail has only existed a few decades, bulldozed through exising blocks.

[McMahon]

I'm from an old European city and have an interest in local history, so I absolutely hate the numbered system. Now, admittedly it is nice to have if you need to find your way around, but there really is no character there. If somebody asked me to picture, for example, the corner of 5th Street and 3rd Avenue SW, I would not have a clue. But if it was named, let's say... the corner of Klein and Manning, then it instantly becomes recognisable.

What I also really hate is the same name for two roads that aren't connected to each other. Let's take 6th Street SW for example. From downtown to the south of the city, I've counted 10 different roads on Google maps named 6th St SW. None of them are physically connected to each other. What's the point of that? The advantage the numbering system has is that it is easier to find your way around. Now let's say, you're downtown and you want to get to 6th Street in Somerset, you would assume that if you just followed the street south from downtown that you would get there. Not a chance. Hell, even if you just wanted to get to 6th Street by the Elbow, you'd have a hard time.

On the topic at hand, is there actually serious discussion regarding changing the names or is this just hypothesis?

[freeweed]

I'm from an old European city and have an interest in local history, so I absolutely hate the numbered system. Now, admittedly it is nice to have if you need to find your way around, but there really is no character there. If somebody asked me to picture, for example, the corner of 5th Street and 3rd Avenue SW, I would not have a clue. But if it was named, let's say... the corner of Klein and Manning, then it instantly becomes recognisable.

That's just what you're used to. People on these forums talk about "14th St and 17th Ave" all the time, and everyone knows exactly what it looks like. Never mind famous numbered roads like 5th Ave in NYC.

What I also really hate is the same name for two roads that aren't connected to each other. Let's take 6th Street SW for example. From downtown to the south of the city, I've counted 10 different roads on Google maps named 6th St SW. None of them are physically connected to each other. What's the point of that? The advantage the numbering system has is that it is easier to find your way around. Now let's say, you're downtown and you want to get to 6th Street in Somerset, you would assume that if you just followed the street south from downtown that you would get there. Not a chance. Hell, even if you just wanted to get to 6th Street by the Elbow, you'd have a hard time.

This may seem like an artifact of numbering streets, but it really isn't. Calgary has Barlow Tr and Sarcee Tr, both of which are named streets that split into several sections. Winnipeg has Assiniboine Ave, which has no fewer than 4 separate sections - often separated by kilometers. This has more to do with our building cities around rivers, and really nothing to do with numbered streets.

And no, there are no serious plans that I'm aware of to rename Calgary's road system - just forum musings.

[NumberFive]

I'm from an old European city and have an interest in local history, so I absolutely hate the numbered system. Now, admittedly it is nice to have if you need to find your way around, but there really is no character there. If somebody asked me to picture, for example, the corner of 5th Street and 3rd Avenue SW, I would not have a clue. But if it was named, let's say... the corner of Klein and Manning, then it instantly becomes recognisable.


That doesn't make any sense.

Whether it's called 3rd and 5th or Klein and Manning, it's just a label and shouldn't have any bearing on any semi-intelligent human's ability to remember where it is or what is on it.

Like I said, it's more about what's on these streets that makes you remember them than what they're called. 8th gets character because of the shops, restaurants, etc that are along it (and because it's shut down to traffic for a part of it)... not because a portion of it is called Stephen Ave. It still has character and is just as memorable if it's just called 8th. It's not like people are forgetting where Melrose is (or any of the other pubs/bars are) on 17th because the road they're on is called "17th Ave" rather than "Notre Dame Ave" (or whatever it used to be).

[DizzyEdge]

Is there any precedent for dual named streets in other municipalities, where both names can be used as postal addresses?

Also, anyone on here live on 1st st sw? I want to try an experiment :)

[Jimby]

Is there any precedent for dual named streets in other municipalities, where both names can be used as postal addresses?

Also, anyone on here live on 1st st sw? I want to try an experiment :)

No I don't live there but, theoretically, with the correct postal code, the letter should make it to its Scarth Street SW destination.

[DizzyEdge]

No I don't live there but, theoretically, with the correct postal code, the letter should make it to its Scarth Street SW destination.

That's what I'm thinking, with the right postal code it will get into the hands of a local carrier who should be aware of the 'formerly' signs.. especially one advertised like Scarth.

[Jimby]

That's what I'm thinking, with the right postal code it will get into the hands of a local carrier who should be aware of the 'formerly' signs.. especially one advertised like Scarth.

I'm meeting up later with a friend who works for the post office (former postie), I'll ask her if she thinks it would get delivered.

I'm sure the bike couriers would catch on to a Scarth Street address since they all used to hang at the Castle.

[mersar]

Its hard to say if it would or not, but yeah, generally as long as the postal code is correct it would have a pretty decent chance. I know that we get misaddressed mail from relatives out of country all the time that if it wasn't for the postal code I doubt would have arrived. Some of the worst ones that I recall had the wrong street as they left part of the street name out (they did put the right house # though), and instead of Cochrane it had Calgary.

[DizzyEdge]

Stephen Ave: what do you think about a new poll that's something like this:

Calgary Street names - Bring them back alongside the numbers, or leave things alone:


- Leave it as it is

- Bring back the old names to innercity streets that historically had been named and that's it

- Bring back the old names to innercity streets that historically had been named and add names of more recent people to downtown streets which weren't historically named

- Bring back the old names and add names to downtown streets which weren't historically named, only for streets that are 'of note' (commercial strips/brz, etc)

[lubicon]

Its hard to say if it would or not, but yeah, generally as long as the postal code is correct it would have a pretty decent chance. I know that we get misaddressed mail from relatives out of country all the time that if it wasn't for the postal code I doubt would have arrived. Some of the worst ones that I recall had the wrong street as they left part of the street name out (they did put the right house # though), and instead of Cochrane it had Calgary.

You would think so, but that is not always the case.

I live in one of these Calgary suburbs where every street starts with the same prefix, but there are Circles, Closes, Roads etc. We OFTEN get mail addressed to other people despite the letter being addressed correctly (including postal code). The usual scenario that I have noticed is that the type of road has been abbreviated and Canada Post misreads it. I live on a Circle (abbreviated Ci) and we often get mail addressed to another house with a similar address except they live on a Close (abbr. Cl). Postal codes are different yet the mail comes to my place despite the postal code not matching.

[Jimby]

My friend from the post office says even with the correct postal code they aren't allowed to deliver to a non-legal address. She said if the postie on that route happened to recognize Scarth Street as First Street, it might get delivered, but they should be returning it as undeliverable.
When a street name is legally changed, people have one year to use the old address before their mail is returned.
I asked about mail addressed to Stephen Avenue Walk and Barclay Parade and they would get delivered, as would Princeton Way.

[Tarsus]

^Which is exactly why the dual street name really doesn't do anything. Unless you can change the address of your home or business to that street name, nobody will ever use the name.

[Aylmer]

I like the system!
It's sorta like NY, you ALWAYS know where you are!

:)

[dmuzika]

This may seem like an artifact of numbering streets, but it really isn't. Calgary has Barlow Tr and Sarcee Tr, both of which are named streets that split into several sections....

Admittedly Sarcee Trail is one suburban road that needs have a portion renamed. The origional plan was to connect the Sarcee Trails via a bridge & expressway that cut through Bowness - it never matieralized and with the Stoney Trail bridge further west, the Sarcee Trail bridge is a dead project. The city renamed Sarcee Tr NW south of Crowchild to Silver Springs Gate, why not rename the rest of Sarcee Tr?

If a portion of Sarcee was to be renamed (I proposed Sarcee Tr NW), what would be a good name? Here's a couple of my ideas:

Cree Trail - keeps with the First Nation theme for the Trails
Spy Hill Trail - Sacree Tr NW goes to Spy Hill

Any others?

[freeweed]

I like Spy Hill Trail! The native names are cute and all, but get a bit tiring and Disney-ish after a while.

I'm also awaiting Klein Trail, myself.

[Jimby]

Klein Trail should lead to Ralph Klein Park which is being developed in the SE!

I like the idea of changing Sarcee Tr NW to Spy Hill Trail too.

[WeavedWeb]

I like Atlantic, Broadway and Scarth, but am not too keen on Notre Dame for 17th.

I completely agree. Notre Dame just doesn't sound right for 17th. The rest of the downtown street names would be good though -- I especiallly like Atlantic & Pacific

Perhaps an opportunity to name it after someone. "Iginla Avenue" (but only if he wins us a stanley cup).

Don't turn us into Edmonton. :haha:

[WeavedWeb]

Klein Trail should lead to Ralph Klein Park which is being developed in the SE!

I like the idea of changing Sarcee Tr NW to Spy Hill Trail too.

The problem with Ralph Klein Park is that it doesn't really reflect his legacy. Klein Trail should be somewhere more important.

Spy Hill Trail is much better than Sarcee Trail NW.

[You Need A Thneed]

You would think so, but that is not always the case.

I live in one of these Calgary suburbs where every street starts with the same prefix, but there are Circles, Closes, Roads etc. We OFTEN get mail addressed to other people despite the letter being addressed correctly (including postal code). The usual scenario that I have noticed is that the type of road has been abbreviated and Canada Post misreads it. I live on a Circle (abbreviated Ci) and we often get mail addressed to another house with a similar address except they live on a Close (abbr. Cl). Postal codes are different yet the mail comes to my place despite the postal code not matching.

Happened to me all the time at our old house too. "Dr" (Drive) and "Cl" (Close) don't look all that similar. The postal codes were one digit apart.


Theoretically, I think mail should be able to be delivered if it had the correct number and postal code. That should be enough information to deliver the mail.

[crooked rain]

I completely agree. Notre Dame just doesn't sound right for 17th. The rest of the downtown street names would be good though -- I especiallly like Atlantic & Pacific



Don't turn us into Edmonton. :haha:


I like the name Notre Dame Rd for 17th. If not for the main commercial part, it would be good for the part from Stampede to 4th St to reflect the heritage of Mission.

[frinkprof]

Bump! More talk of this lately.

[DizzyEdge]

I'll bump the map too:

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6966/calgarystreetnames.th.jpg (http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=calgarystreetnames.jpg)

[DizzyEdge]

My thoughts on the historic names.

1 - Names exude history and culture more than numbers
2 - Numbers allow you to find a never-before visited destination without a map
3 - Although there's names all over that map, they were changed to numbers so early in Calgary's history that it wouldn't surprise me of more than 50% of the blocks shown never had any buildings on them when the names existed (particularly in the Beltline and west downtown), and may not have even ever had roads constructed or roadsigns exhibiting those names. So if the names only ever existed on a few municiple planning maps, do they deserve to be resurrected? Discuss :)

[frinkprof]

..regarding hotwired comments, perhaps inserting 'pretentious' inplace of 'lame' might be more accurate, insofar at least that's how I see the casual use of these old names being used in place of street numbers...meh, just my opinion though, I suppose I'll be crucified for it...
I see the point of this. I don't know about the word "pretentious" though.

What I disagree with is the flip-flopping. The change was made, and although it may not have been the best one, I don't think it has been so bad that we need to revert back. Who's to say that in another 50 years, there isn't another movement that wants a change back to numbers, or to something else altogether? Onward, ever-upward I guess.

Now, I do think that the history should be recognized and I think 1st Street West has done a great job with the banners, etc. I say keep the numbered name as official, and have it on street signs, but also have art and other signage to recognize the historical name. Downfall is that it could be a little confusing for people new to the area/tourists.

[DizzyEdge]

The former names do provide a convenient branding for any retail areas or mini BRZ's that show up on an old street.

[freeweed]

Personal opinion? A couple of special places in a gridded inner city (Stephen Ave, Whyte Ave) are kinda cool. But this "let's rename this street as a branding exercise" wears thin VERY fast. Especially for anyone that tries to actually refer to such antiquated things as maps.

Do we go with "Calgary Flames Blvd" instead of 17th? How about "Red Mile Ave"? Maybe we should rename Hwy 2 the Queen Elizabeth something, because some random person that the world only cares about due to an accident of birth, who has no practical influence on anything here, once happened to deign us important enough for 15 minutes of her time?

Oh wait...

Calgary's funny in that it has 2 distinct naming schemes that in theory help navigation - numbered grid, plus suburban streets being named together. The weird part is that while the suburban system makes it very easy to get pretty close to an address, once you're there, you NEED a map. Even after several years at an address I can never remember whether the next street over is a Blvd or a Drive or a Road or whatever.

And of course, numbered streets only work well if you know the central radiating point - Edmonton has always confounded me for the first few minutes of a visit. Why bother even mentioning NW?? Yes, Yes, I know the official answer to that. :P

PS: this should be in the Transportation section, no?

[mersar]

PS: this should be in the Transportation section, no?

Yeah, I think it should be.

[lubicon]

Personal opinion? A couple of special places in a gridded inner city (Stephen Ave, Whyte Ave) are kinda cool. But this "let's rename this street as a branding exercise" wears thin VERY fast. Especially for anyone that tries to actually refer to such antiquated things as maps.

Do we go with "Calgary Flames Blvd" instead of 17th? How about "Red Mile Ave"? Maybe we should rename Hwy 2 the Queen Elizabeth something, because some random person that the world only cares about due to an accident of birth, who has no practical influence on anything here, once happened to deign us important enough for 15 minutes of her time?

Oh wait...

Calgary's funny in that it has 2 distinct naming schemes that in theory help navigation - numbered grid, plus suburban streets being named together. The weird part is that while the suburban system makes it very easy to get pretty close to an address, once you're there, you NEED a map. Even after several years at an address I can never remember whether the next street over is a Blvd or a Drive or a Road or whatever.

And of course, numbered streets only work well if you know the central radiating point - Edmonton has always confounded me for the first few minutes of a visit. Why bother even mentioning NW?? Yes, Yes, I know the official answer to that. :P

PS: this should be in the Transportation section, no?

And even this can be confusing. When I first moved to Calgary it took me forever to figure out exactly where a numbered address was. Since everything starts at (more or less) the centre of the city and radiates outward, numbered addresses aren't found until after you have passed the street whereas in all the other places I have lived they occur before. I was always out by one block when I looked for an address until I finally got used to it.

For example, lets say you were looking for 333 - 5th Ave SW in Calgary, and 333 - 5 Ave in Edmonton (if that address existed). Both are obviously located along 5th Avenue but in Calgary the address would be located between 3rd and 4th Streets whereas in Edmonton it would be between 2nd and 3rd Street.

[frinkprof]

^Actually the addressing scheme in Calgary depends on whether it is on a street or an avenue. If it is on a street, the number 333 would be between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. If it is on an avenue, the number 333 would be between 3rd and 4th Streets.

[DizzyEdge]

The main thing I wonder when looking at that old street map, is whether the bodies in that 24th Ave graveyard were moved...

[DizzyEdge]

Alright, one quick question that I have, where/when did the name Broadway get put into use on whats now 4th, as from the map that I've seen from the late 1890's the street was Ross Street, not Broadway Street.

I don't know where the idea it was named Broadway came from either. Every map I've ever seen also says Ross Street.

Although this is bumping an old post, the confusion is that the Broadway name was only used south of 17th ave beside Mission.

I'd really like the Mission streets to be renamed, I find it a shame that there are so little remnants of the French Canadian settlers there.

[freeweed]

^Actually the addressing scheme in Calgary depends on whether it is on a street or an avenue. If it is on a street, the number 333 would be between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. If it is on an avenue, the number 333 would be between 3rd and 4th Streets.

SERIOUSLY???

LOL. I've never noticed this. How bizarre. I guess I only really look for addresses on Avenues, because I thought they all came after the street #.

[Deepstar]

Scarth street all the way! I'd like to see at least a few streets re-named to the original name. I can't figured out why anyone would be opposed to that?? :koko:

[Stang]

I think having a few token named streets would be good for each area. I find the numbered system useful, but it is completely soulless.

I say rename some of the "character" streets back to their old names: Broadway, Notre Dame, Scarth, Atlantic, etc. It wouldn't be enough throw the grid into haywire, but it would help define the neighbourhoods.

We all know that Stephen Avenue is 8th. I'm sure that we can handle a few more interesting names without causing navigation mayhem on the streets!

[Wooster]

^Yeah, clearly the streets with some degree of character and are a bit of a destination would be served well by being named. I agree with the ones mentioned.

[kap384]

I like Van Horne for 12th. Nod to CPR heritage.

[DizzyEdge]

You know.. it could also be interesting to name the 7th (or 8th) ave ctrain stations after the historic cross street names.. Every car has a map (or 2.. or more?) showing the stations, so the numbered cross street names could shown on the map so people can still determine where to get off.

[Look way up]

I'd love to see a return to the old historical street names. To me it adds character.

Mind you, I think it was Mersar who showed some of the old names and IIRC Centre Street was Mctavish Street originally. I'm not sure if Calgary would put up with naming a street after the coach of the Edmonton Oilers (yes I realize the spelling may be different).

Actually most Flames fans probably love MacTavish and wish he was still coaching the Oilers :)



^Yeah, clearly the streets with some degree of character and are a bit of a destination would be served well by being named. I agree with the ones mentioned.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'd like to see some of the historical names put back on the streets. I like the numbering system as a whole, but character streets should have a character name!!. I hate telling people in other cities that our vibrant streets are 1st street, 17th ave, 4th street, 10th street etc.. Even worse is having to add the SW, or NW for clarification It's a frigging embarrassment! :hell:

[lubicon]

Actually most Flames fans probably love MacTavish and wish he was still coaching the Oilers :)





I'm in the same boat as you. I'd like to see some of the historical names put back on the streets. I like the numbering system as a whole, but character streets should have a character name!!. I hate telling people in other cities that our vibrant streets are 1st street, 17th ave, 4th street, 10th street etc.. Even worse is having to add the SW, or NW for clarification It's a frigging embarrassment! :hell:

And confusing. Try giving someone from out of town the following directions:

Drive east on 16 AVE NW, then turn south on 14 ST NW etc. etc.

[Stephen Ave]

One of the things I don't like about the numbered system, is the quadrant designation. I had some friends come visit from Ottawa a couple of years ago, and they wanted something to do during the day while I was at work, so I told them to go to 17th ave and hang out - they went to 17th ave SE! A popular street like 17th really should have a name.

I wish they'd at least give streets like 17th ave SW or 4th street SW a name.

And confusing. Try giving someone from out of town the following directions:

Drive east on 16 AVE NW, then turn south on 14 ST NW etc. etc.

[freeweed]

And confusing. Try giving someone from out of town the following directions:

Drive east on 16 AVE NW, then turn south on 14 ST NW etc. etc.

Calgary has NOTHING on some of the American cities I've driven in. Nothing.

Not that we don't have room for improvement.

PS: some of the most famous character streets in North America are numbered streets. Anyone ever hear of a little shop called "Saks 5th Avenue"? ;)

[Look way up]

:previous: Outside of 5th ave in NYC are there alot of other well known streets that are numbered?

[Surrealplaces]

When you think of popular streets or Avenues, almost all of them are named.

Michigan Avenue, Slate Street, Rush street(Chi)
Rodeo Drive, Melrose Avenue, Sunset Blvd(LA)
South Street, Walnut Street (Philly)
Newbury Street (Boston)
Crescent street, St Catherine's (Mtl)
Young Street, Queen Street (Tor)
Bourbon street, Canal Street (NO)
Telegraph Street, Market street (San Fran)
Park avenue, Broadway Avenue, Avenue of the Americas, Wall street (NYC)


New York's Manhattan a great example of having number streets, but having names for the famous streets...in fact they may have become famous because they had a name. I don't see any reason Calgary can't do the same.

[YYCguys]

One example that I can think of where a name would be more suitable than a number is the 32 Ave NE connector. That roadway is straight east of the Deerfoot but as it passes to the west, the alignment becomes skewed and actually turns into 41 Ave NE at Edmonton Trail and finally into 40 Ave NW west of Centre Street! Another example is how Blackfoot Trail turns into 17 Ave SE at Deerfoot! Another confusing road! I'm sure there are many more examples, and the City needs to look at them and make changes to make the city more navigable.

[Distill3d]

I did vote to keep it as is. That however was before reading through the entire thread to see everyones point of view.

I do agree that certain streets with historical street names should be restored. and not just in the inner city. I'm actually surprised that no one has mentioned how 14 Street south of Glenmore Trail used to be named Paskapoo Trail (though I'm sure most of us are too young to remember that). I'll put my vote in for that to be one of the streets to go back to its old name.

I do agree with the points made about 17 Avenue doesn't sound like a vibrant and trendy district. however, a return to Notre Dame would be confusing to some people. I'd suggest for at least the section between MacLeod Trail and 14 Street be officially renamed to Red Mile Boulevard, or for those that want to keep it french, Boulevard Rouge Mile.

[Wooster]

17th is one I don't mind as a numbered street.

[DizzyEdge]

I just happened to google map "broadway, calgary" and it came up indicating 4th St SW was that street.

[Smevo]

As someone who moved here in the past year, I actually find the quadrant and number system to be very useful for navigation purposes. That said, I like the "formerly known as" signs in the Beltline and Inglewood. It adds character and I think it could be spread to all the streets that would apply to.

Just don't do the signs like they do in Canmore, where you have to be on top of the intersection to see the numbered street name...it makes it confusing when trying to follow Google directions which used the numbers rather than the names.

Pedestrian malls (Stephen Ave and Barclay Parade) should definitely keep the names though, and I don't think anyone would disagree there.

Just my two cents.

[bea]

One of the things I don't like about the numbered system, is the quadrant designation. I had some friends come visit from Ottawa a couple of years ago, and they wanted something to do during the day while I was at work, so I told them to go to 17th ave and hang out - they went to 17th ave SE! A popular street like 17th really should have a name.
Like "Uptown 17th" or "International Avenue" ?

[tdurden5573]

I would love to see it go back to the names, but then in 20 years are we going to be proposing going back to numbers? My friends from Vancouver think the number system is way better, but I would prefer names for sure, much more character.

[DizzyEdge]

The key is to bring back the names without losing the convenience of the numbers.

[gorebug]

I think the preference depends on how an individual relates to the city or area in question.

When people navigate the city by foot, names are a much more appealing way of identifying areas. I would suspect that is why older cities and the oldest areas within 'new' cities have a large number of 'named' streets. The same pattern repeats itself in the outlying suburbs where numbered streets are once again avoided to provide the residents a greater sense of community.

Once one begins to commute from a greater distance however, the numbered system allows one to find an address quickly and easily without having to have been previously familiar with the area.

~bug

[bluewaterandsunshine]

I like 17th Ave to be renamed "The Red Mile."

[fusili]

I think we have a lot of cool street names, they just all happen to be arterials- Crowchild, Shaganappi, Deerfoot, Blackfoot, Glenmore, Metis, Marquis of Lorne, McKnight. All of those names would be a cool name for a pedestrian street. Unfortunately they are all streets that people would never ever want to walk along. MacLeod is similar, but it is a complete cluster F&$k once you get south of the Elbow River.