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seaskyfan
Apr 3, 2008, 4:21 AM
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/357422_plastics03.html

Seattle could ban foam food boxes
By ANGELA GALLOWAY
P-I REPORTER

Seattle would ban foam food containers and impose a 20-cent fee on both paper and plastic grocery bags under a first-of-its kind proposal announced Wednesday morning.

Restaurants would later be prohibited from using plastic containers unless they can be recycled or composted, under the plan to be unveiled by City Council President Richard Conlin and Mayor Greg Nickels.

The "green fee" would apply to disposable bags distributed at grocery, convenience and drug stores. The polystyrene foam ban would outlaw items such as plates, trays, "clamshells," cups, meat trays and egg cartons at stores and restaurants.

If adopted by the council, the foam and bag rules would go into effect January 1. The restrictions on plastics at restaurants would be implemented one year later.

"It's a big symbolic step, but it's also a very concerted step in the right direction because we're talking about an incredible number of bags," Conlin said. Seattle stores hand out about 360 million disposable bags a year, according to Seattle Public Utilities.

A lobbyist for Washington retailers said he would withhold judgment on the plan until he had a chance to run it by members of his groups, and to take a look at the results of polling conducted by the city.

"I'm mostly concerned about what the consumers are going to say, are they going to be supportive?" said Mark Johnson, vice president of government affairs for the Washington Retail Association. "If the consumer says, 'I'm not excited about paying 20 cents per bag when I go shopping,' that is probably going to be an issue for us. If they're saying, 'No big deal,' it might not be an issue."

San Francisco prohibited supermarkets from using plastic bags in December, and plans to impose a ban on pharmacies soon. Ireland imposed a fee on plastic bags in 2002. And more than 20 cities have banned polystyrene foam packaging at restaurants and other business, including San Francisco.

Seattle officials considered banning disposable bags altogether, Conlin said. "The problem with a ban is that all it does is leave people without a choice," Conlin said. "And the alternative was to go with a ban just on plastic bags, but our data indicates that paper bags have serious environment consequences as well."

The fee is a better approach, agreed Mark Westlund, spokesman for the San Francisco environmental department. "If you're trying to reduce bags, that's the way to go," Westlund said. San Francisco officials considered such a fee, but the legislature then prohibited them under California law, he said.

For every 20-cent fee collected by Seattle, most stores would be allowed to retain five cents for administrative costs and taxes. (The fee itself would be subject to the state sales tax.) Small stores -- those collecting less than $1 million in gross revenues each year -- would be allowed to keep the full 20 cents.

"We've got something that we think is pretty much a win for everybody (and) a wash for the merchants," Conlin said. "We don't think it's going to be an inconvenience for them and for the consumer it gives them the opportunity not to pay a fee at all."

Stores would be required to explicitly include the fee on customer receipts.

"They want it to be a transparent cost," said Joe Gilliam, president of the Northwest Grocery Association. "They want the consumer to say, 'Oh, I'm paying more to use the bag, therefore, I might make a change to a reusable bag."

Gilliam said his group does not yet know if stores' share of the fee would fully cover their administrative costs.

"It's hard for me to say if that's a good number," he said in an interview Tuesday. "If it does cost us more than five cents we're going to have to pass it along to the consumer in some way."

Seattle Public Utilities says most of the 360 million disposable bags used in the city each year are plastic. Nearly 75 percent of those come from grocery, drug and convenience stores, officials said. And most of them end up in landfills.

But paper bags are even worse for the environment, once you factor in the tolls of logging and shipping the bags, Seattle officials said. That is why the fee would apply to both, they said.

Seattle Public Utilities projected the fees would generate about $10 million a year. About $2 million of that would go to promoting the use of reusable bags, including a program to distribute free reusable bags to low income families and the elderly. The rest would be used for recycling, environmental education and waste prevention programs, the mayor's office said.

The fee approach is meant to encourage use of re-usable bags, rather than sending customers to paper bags or leaving stores with few options when customers show up at the till with a stack of purchase and no way to carry them.

"The high point in the program is that the city has taken the position that just banning the plastic bags isn't the best environmental answer," Gilliam said. "We're kind of encouraged by that."

"I'm not sure this package is perfect in every way," Gilliam said. "I think there's some holes in it (such as) some opportunities to do some more education and encouraging of recycling."

Still, "as a first cut, we remain optimistic about it," he said. "We haven't seen all the full details. But from what we see there are some good opportunities in the plan."

mhays
Apr 3, 2008, 3:51 PM
I love it! Not easy for me either, but still!

alexjon
Apr 3, 2008, 4:02 PM
Portland bans foam food boxes

Fiat Lux
Apr 3, 2008, 6:44 PM
This is silly. This is fascism. Invest your own money in a bio packaging company and lobby and your neighborhood grocer yourself. Taking away my cheap supply of bags is b.s.

alexjon
Apr 3, 2008, 6:51 PM
Nah, it's worth it. Just buy some reuseables.

seaskyfan
Apr 3, 2008, 7:07 PM
It seems pretty easy to move away from the foam food boxes - the cardboard ones that places like Whole Foods uses seem to work just fine.

I don't know if my overall use of plastic bags will decline that much - we'll probably wind up buying some to use for picking up after the dog.

Aleks
Apr 3, 2008, 8:22 PM
I think it's awesome. Now you see reusable bags at red apple, whole foods, costco, even wall-mart. And not using foam boxes means that there's less trash which means less landfill which means (if they burn the trash, and even if they don't it will rot away eventually) there's less carbon dioxide in the air.

mhays
Apr 3, 2008, 8:36 PM
Everything is "fascism" to the republican spokesman.

Fiat Lux
Apr 7, 2008, 7:49 PM
Everything is "fascism" to the republican spokesman.

It is fascism. Seattle is using big govt. and the police state to force behavior. Seattle is choosing fascism over freedom in this issue and a number of others.

Also, I am not a Republican spokesman, I have plenty of issues with them too, though most of the very few decent politicians left seem to be Republicans these days.

mhays
Apr 7, 2008, 8:02 PM
The term "fascism" means something very serious. You're diluting it by throwing it around for shock value.

How utterly insulting your comments must be to anyone truly oppressed by facism or true lack of freedom. How they'd cry about your horrible plight... having to buy your teriyaki in a cardboard takeout container rather than styrofoam... oh the humanity!

Fiat Lux
Apr 7, 2008, 8:32 PM
The term "fascism" means something very serious.

No it doesn't. Pull out a history book and you will find that many prominent Americans embraced the term fascism before the Stalinists slandered the term.

You're diluting it by throwing it around for shock value.

Dude, its fascist. You are using the powerful force of govt. and the police state to regulate behavior; that's fascism!

How utterly insulting your comments must be to anyone truly oppressed by facism or true lack of freedom.

We aren't totally oppressed, yet. Fascism can be incremental.

alexjon
Apr 7, 2008, 8:37 PM
Dude, its fascist. You are using the powerful force of govt. and the police state to regulate behavior; that's fascism!

The world is ending! The sky is falling!

It's funny how regulation of fiscal conduct is instantly fascism in the republican mindset, but regulation of social conduct is not. On the flip-side of the coin, the democratic mindset believes social regulation to be fascism and fiscal regulation the opposite.

I laugh at a world where people take a stand on mounds of plastic bags. FREEDOM!

mhays
Apr 8, 2008, 5:29 AM
Damn those facists for reducing lead in our drinking water and in OUR GAS TANKS! Damn them for putting OUR kids in seatbelts! Damn them for speed limits. Damn them for litter laws! And damn them for the tellingly-named "red", yellow, and green light system, which tries to control my FREEDOM!

We pay for govmint for one reason only: to protect American freedom...by imposing our will on other countries and their people.

Tacoma Boy
Apr 8, 2008, 6:33 AM
I take issue with it because it's a fee put on Joe and Jane Public.

If Seattle really wants to get the foam and bags out, charge the 20 cents to the business, craft the ordinance so it implicitly forbids said buisnesses from passing that cost to their customers.

Watch how fast foam and bags go extinct. We give so damn much corporate welfare in this state (at the taxpayer's expense, of course) that it's about time we twisted their arms for once... not ours.

alexjon
Apr 8, 2008, 3:55 PM
It's mostly the city trying to recoup costs associated with disposing so many effing bags. It's not forced environmentalism, it's just telling people "Look, they're convenient, but they cause so many problems and, personally, we feel they're bad for the environment."

I wish there were other types of bags out there, gosh.

Nutterbug
Apr 8, 2008, 4:16 PM
It is fascism. Seattle is using big govt. and the police state to force behavior. Seattle is choosing fascism over freedom in this issue and a number of others.

Littering and polluting the world for everybody else is not live-and-let-live. So the "freedom" argument does not work here.

alexjon
Apr 8, 2008, 4:35 PM
People are just caught up in the fact that instead of saying "look, they're nasty and cost so much money to get rid of", Nickels is using buzz words like "green" and "carbon".

Fiat Lux
Apr 9, 2008, 4:15 PM
Littering and polluting the world for everybody else is not live-and-let-live.

Where do I endorse pollution? Usually these fascist schemes are more destructive to the environment than letting the market play out; see GMA for a good example.

Fiat Lux
Apr 9, 2008, 4:20 PM
It's mostly the city trying to recoup costs associated with disposing so many effing bags.

Baloney. If that were the case they would raise trash fees. Did you read above that they are and threatening to raise the prices of paper bags too? This is a fascist money grab and nothing more.

mhays
Apr 9, 2008, 6:52 PM
Where do I endorse pollution? Usually these fascist schemes are more destructive to the environment than letting the market play out; see GMA for a good example.

Since most of us don't agree with your example....

alexjon
Apr 9, 2008, 9:39 PM
Baloney. If that were the case they would raise trash fees. Did you read above that they are and threatening to raise the prices of paper bags too? This is a fascist money grab and nothing more.

I like to think of it as a tax on the selfish and stupid.

seaskyfan
Apr 10, 2008, 2:40 AM
I think in this case the market needs help from government to get out from under a pollution-generating activity. Currently people consider free bags at the supermarket an entitlement. It would be difficult for any one grocer to start charging for them as it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. The government can help by setting a level playing field and taking the heat from consumers. The fascist thing is especially ridiculous in this point - the Seattle City Council has a pretty clear mandate around environmental issues.